Bumper Storage Compartment Question

[Jeff Bayley]

I'm thinking of disposing of the spare tire currently in the front bumber bay and using it for storage. Someone said that it is a waste of time to carry the spare around becuase you can't change it yourself anyway and that whoever comes to change it (who DOES come by the way? Tow truck ?) would bring a wheel and tire with them. I'm not so sure about that. Would appreicate some opinions on this and also to know if there are some large wing handled bolts that might be used in place of the very large standard hex nuts in place now in order to more easily access the bumper bay storage. Or whatever other modifications you have made to access more easily.

Jeff

[Just Plain Jeff]

Winchester uses his to carry around raw meat, in fear that he may run out.

This is one of those deals that can be quite different from converter to converter. Our Vogue has a stainless steel interior with dampening springs, so that when you open it the heavy bumper doesn't break your feet. Some coaches, I believe a few CC, have an inside switch so that it will open without undoing the two big bolts.

The idea with the spare tire compartment is that if it is a seated coach, the driver can change a tire on site. I can't get away from the image of 50 passengers standing around whilst a driver wheels around a 250-pound tire or two!

Each conversion will likely be different. Oh, the bumper bolts should be the same size as the PCC-supplied wrench handle with your jack, if that's your system, so no other tool need be supplied. Here's a caution: If your bolts are chrome, careful when using the PCC handle as it will scratch said bolts. Good luck finding replacements. Probably only Lew's Tru-Value has them in stock.

Other converters have stuff in the spare tire compartment, using the space for a/c and possibly other wires and funny tubes and things.

Our stainless compartment is pretty water-tight, but not enough to carry donuts to bribe LEO's however.

Open 'er up and see what you've got to work with. It's a big space and it makes sense to be able to use the space for dead storage or 'C' inventory, but watch how much weight you put there. Remember you are some distance from the steer tires and really heavy weight is going to be a big lever.

If you don't have some sort of support mechanism when opening the bumper, one would be highly recommended because that sucker drops pretty fast when the bolts are loosened.

Righty-tighty, lefty-loosey.

[merle&louise]

Foontoon:

You're right! I know that I wouldn't want to change a tire. In 14 years I have had 2 flats; I just called a truck stop and they sent out a road service truck with a new tire. In about 1 hour I was on my way. Both flats were blow outs.

Google "Trucker's Friend" and you can get a book listing all of the truck stops in the U.S.

The down side to this approach is that you may be stranded in an area that is out of cell phone range. Also, you may be too far from a truck stop; unlikely if you travel the interstates. Regardless, I like this as opposed to changing the flat myself.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

It is possable to change your tire with the jack and tools supplied.

If we did not have 2 cruise airs in that spot we would carry the spare.

These campers are loaded with redundent stuff and most of us carry no spares, not without good reasons, but nevertheless still the situation.

We all could probably immagine the bill for a new tire and emergency service on the road. We pull a P-U with a cap and I have seriously concidered carrying a spare in that.

I was thinking about rebuilding an air dryer for everyone at the next rally, you gotta pull a tire to more easily assess it, mabye Ill pull it with the Prevo supplied tools just for kicks.

We arent afraid to get our hands dirty, are we?

[win42]

Jeff B: Are you sure the space does not contain a Cruise Air?
Most of our insurance policies contain free road service. Our Progressive Policy does anyway. I
f you want to do it right, spring return the bumper closed and air cylinder it open. Remove the bolts and get SS cap plugs to put in the bolt holes. This area could be used in the future to mount machine guns for fighting Alquida when they get here.
H

[Jeff Bayley]

I
f you want to do it right, spring return the bumper closed and air cylinder it open. Remove the bolts and get SS cap plugs to put in the bolt holes.

Can you clarify this portion ? Seems like your description includes replacemnt of the SS botls spring return and air cylinder but I din't know what these parts are or where to find them.

Thank you,

Jeff

[win42]

Jeff B : All new parts to be added to make a safe semi automatic access to your front bumper compartment. No bolts to deal with, push an air switch and it will open, push it again it will close. If you want to do it, let me know and I'll come up with a design and a parts list. How many POGERS are interested in addind this feature?
Harry

[Jeff Bayley]

Harry- Does the automatic open and close feature require very much work ? Is it glitchy or rock solid ? I guess I need to know a bit more. If this doesn't require a lot of customization then I'll go for it. It seems like a big wing nut would get me by in the meantime but finding a wing nut (bolt) that large is probabley like trying to track down the reverse threads for the hub covers.

Jeff

[garyde]

There's nothing like Changing a tire on the Freeway with Trucks and cars passing @ 70- 80 MPH. Boost the tire and get a on the road policy. All you need is a cell phone. Try WWW.Coach-Net.com

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Here are a few doses of reality, not meant to sway anyone in one direction or another, but to pass along some information.

Sorry, Joe. You cannot change a tire that has been properly torqued with the tools supplied by Prevost. 500 foot pounds is just too much, but if you have a torque multiplier you can loosen and tighten the nuts with ease.

JPJ....Your ditty about tightening may apply to some other brand coaches, but ours have LH threads on the driver's side and RH on the passenger side. Anybody that does try to change there tires needs to remember that otherwise they will have a tough time of it loosening those driver side nuts.

You will not readily find our size tires if you have a failure on the road. both 12R 22.5 and the 315R 22.5 are not commonly found. If you have a blowout, as opposed to a puncture you may be forced to used a size not specified for the coach. In that instance, make sure the odd size tire ends up on the tag axle.

If you do travel to a schedule I suggest carrying a spare (sorry XLII guys, with your variety of sizes you may have a problem), not so you can change it yourself, but so you have the right size tire.

I also suggest if you intend to change your own to use two jacks and carry some blocking. You are likely to have trouble raising an axle enough to clear the ground with a flat tire.

Changing your tires is not that big a deal if you have the tools, and I prefer to do it than to watch the guy with the truck and greasy tools beat the hell out of my wheels. I can have it changed or a flat plugged before the truck gets to me anyway.

[MangoMike]

Ok Jon,

You're scarying me now. Tires sizes...spares...greasy guys beating up the wheels...

Let me just ask you one question.

Did you bring a spare with you to POG II?


MM

[Jeff Bayley]

Jon-

Thanks for the info on changing the spare. There is a bracket in one of the rear access bays that looks like it probably used to hold a factory jack. Missing now. I think this was missing on my other bus also. If one WAS going to attempt gathering the right tools to keep on hand for the job, is this one of the jacks you would recommend (factory type). If I'm going to have to start buying stuff would you recommend something different ? I think there is room for all the tools / jacks in the front where the spare tire is. If I'm not going to convert that to storage, and if I'm going to keep the spare in there, then I might as well have all the other necessary tools to change it. Hmmmm. Not sure what to do.

How many of your have experienced a flat and how many of your have changed it yourself ? I have Good Sams and AAA (with RV option) but do these guys show up with a wheel and tire for you ? Do they sell it to you ? Loan it to you?

Harry, I guess the automatic latch for the bumper tray makes yet a 2nd reason to try to meet up with you in addition to the battery stuff eh? You must be a wizard with just about everything. On the latch, does it just lock and unlock or is it motorized all the way up and down? I think I saw a motorized one on a few coaches. I wouldn't need to access it frequently. By the way, there is no cruise air in there. I have roof A/C's.

I would like to hear what others use this storage space for. If I ditched the spare, I would use it to put the following items which are stored elsewhere now: Spare water hoses and washing stuff. Box full of extra belts. Portable flood light, inventory of business stuff that I don't need to access often, unicycle (still waiting for an offer from the circus). Other ???

The floor plan and storage on these buses was most underestimated by me in the beginning. First bus, didn't give it a thought. 2nd bus- I said "Oh that's better than my other bus" and now it seems even more important to me. I've been living in mine full time for 2.5 years and am just now buying a house in Florida but I really don't even want to move into that house. I like the bus. If I upgrade again I will buy another used one and I'll pick out the replacement based on how I like the storage inside and below. If anyone else has a Royal I can show you how I modified the storage inside. This bus was absolutely horrible on drawer space and the closet design. You have to make every inch of space count and even with my revisions it leaves so much to be desired. A submarine designer would be a good designer for the storage on these buses I'm sure.

I would like to hear what others have done in the way of additions or modifications (especially on Royal) to improve on storage.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Mike,

I no longer carry a spare because I no longer use the bus for trade shows or seminars. When I traveled to a schedule I carried a full spare with the wheel polished on both sides. It went with the old bus when I sold it. Now that I'm unemployed I don't have to worry.

Jeff et al,

All our coaches originally came with a bottle jack and a lug nut / front bumper wrench. They were mounted in a little compartment directly behind the RH steer tire wheel well, accessible from the first bay. On the passenger side first bay the forward bulkhead behind the wheel has a pair of panels secured with a few screws. Remove the panels and unless someone has removed them your jack and wrench should be there.

[Orren Zook]

I think that 'ditty' applied to USS and SAE bolt thread & nut combinations. You are correct in that Budd style wheels use LH and RH threads in their studs, inner and outer nuts. The correct use is determined by the side of the vehicle. 'Unimount' metric stud and nut combinations are threaded the same way on both sides of the vehicle - these are found on newer trucks, I'd guess the bus manufacturers have also made this change.

BTW if you are really contemplating your own flat repair don't forget a good set of spoons to dismount and remount the tire - and maybe a can of ether to blow the bead back up on the rim.....

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Despite the pure joy and excitement that comes from igniting an ether filled tire, any time I have mounted them I use a set of ratcheting straps (such as to secure a load on a small trailer) around the middle of the tire tread and that usually is sufficient to seal the bead. Not as impressive, but it works.

I have never mounted a tire on a wheel on the road, but have changed a tire already mounted on the road. I save the joy of breaking a tire and wheel down until I am home.

For those who check their tire pressures on the road, your reward for being a responsible bus driver is to have the inner drive axle Schrader valve fail to seat. It has happened to me twice and it involves removal of the outer drive axle wheel to access the valve stem core and replace it. All other valve stem cores can be changed without removing the wheel. Bring tools to do that and soe spare cores.

[Jeff Bayley]

For those who check their tire pressures on the road, your reward for being a responsible bus driver is to have the inner drive axle Schrader valve fail to seat. It has happened to me twice and it involves removal of the outer drive axle wheel to access the valve stem core and replace it. All other valve stem cores can be changed without removing the wheel. Bring tools to do that and soe spare cores.

Holly Cow! Valve stems ? Beading the tire? What the $#%& ? I can't fiddle with all that. he,he Are you guys talking about putting air in the spare ? I have a spare tire already mounted on the rim and with air inside. Sounds like some one is talking about keeping a spare tire only with no rim and changing that out ???? I would'nt even attempt jacking it up I don't think much less thinking I'm capable of working a new tire into place. You guys do that ? Whoa. Impressive if that's the case. The main argument in this thread for leaving the spare there so far is that someone said the right size wheel and tire is not very common. I don't care about limping to the next tire shop on a spare this isn't absolutly the correct size. That is ok. But you at least need to know you can get the right rim. The rims are more standard (aren't they?).

Jeff

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jeff, If you have a tire fail on the road so it has to be replaced your spare will be a godsend. Our tire sizes are just not in stock at most places. A long time ago it was suggested to just go to the local bus company and buy one of their tires, but most bus companies lease their tires, so they couldn't sell you one if they wanted to.

Your wheels are not going to be replaced so you do not have to worry about that.

BTW, this is a serious issue because our tires are literally what keeps us on the road. If you use a bus to meet a schedule you need a plan in the event of a tire failure, but the best approach is to monitor tire pressures and make sure they each carry the pressure required based on the weight each tire is carrying. An underinflated tire is a candidate for a blowout. Also, conventional wisdom suggests that even if the tread is still deep on the tires, once they are about 5 or 6 years old they need to be replaced.

[merle&louise]

Jeff:

I agree with Jon, check your tire pressures EVERY MORNING before heading out on the super slab. Also, when you stop for a coffee break take a walk around the coach and feel the tires to see if they are hot. If one feels hot check the pressure, it may be losing air. Use your air hose to air it up if it is low and drive to the closest truck stop. Also, remember the tow car; check those tires also.

My coach has 11 R 24.5 tires, which can be found at any truck stop that sells tires. It is a very common size, most truckers use this tire. My steering tires are a different story, they are 315/80 R 22.5 (load range L, I think). They are not as common.

I don't carry a spare because I am not on a schedule and I always have my tow vehicle with me. If I get a flat in the middle of nowhere, I disconnect and drive to the nearest truck stop(assuming no cell service available).:(

In 14 years of motorhoming, I have put 250,000 miles on my MHs, and I have had 2 flats. Hopefully this will put your worries in perspective. Plan ahead, like Jon says - be prepared and you won't be sorry.

[win42]

I would guess 99.9% of us have an emergency road service policy that covers flat tires or break downs on the road. The service you receive depends on the exact information you give the service people. After notifying your emergency person at the Insurance Co. Tell them, after they select a road service that , you must talk directly with that service before they dispatch a truck. It is now your your responsability to relay the tire and wheel size, the weight of your unit, the type of jacking equipment required, the position of the vehicle related to terrain, off or on hard surface and most important the exact location and description of your vehicle.

If your coach is dead and requires a tow you need to discuss the capabilities of their tow unit and relate to them that you are prepared to pull your axels prior to towing. At this point you better had prepared yourself per Jons instructions with tools, axel pulling bolts and blank off plates to stop the oil while towing. Decide where and to whom you want it towed to.

You can leave it all to the service people to decide, but you better be prepared to accept any thing they do.

[garyde]

You know, its like being in shop class all over again when I Log in to this POG. Great Job you guys. Gary

[Jeff Bayley]

Well since I don't need the space under the bumper THAT bad I think I'll leave the spare especially since it already mounted on a shinny Aloca wheel tha matches the rest. I can take my time replacing the failed tire that way. How much air pressure you guys run ? I think it's somewhere between 90 -110 depending on who you ask. I can imagine this topic has been covered before somewhere in the forums. I hardly ever check my air pressure because I don't find the tires loose air but I really should more often. I ordered the LED monitors last week like a few other people did.

[Ben]

Liberty told me to use the following pressures:
Front: 110lbs
Drive: 90lbs
Tag: 85lbs

Others will say to weigh every corner and use tables that the tire manufacturer supplies. I have no clue how to weigh my beast, so I'm going with the numbers that Libery provided until I know different.

[Ray Davis]

Ben,

Weighing is pretty trival. Many truck stops have CAT scales. You simply go to the scale, drive up on it, use the microphone there to contact the fuel desk, and then go inside to pickup your report. As I remember it cost about $8 to have this done. You'll want to position your wheels so that each axle is on a separate scale.

There are also other places/services which will come out and weigh each individual wheel for you, which I haven't tried. The CAT scales are about a 5 minute involvement.


Ray

[win42]

Jeff B : Your tires have max air pressure written on them. Mine said 120 pounds. If I was loaded like a truck 60-80 thousand pounds 120 is what I would run. I run 110 with my 40 ft. Jon had bad things to say about those LED air pressure gizmos, they leak. Save them for your biycicle. Add valve stem extenders to your rear inside duals if you don't already have them. It makes them easier to check and add air. Do check your air often, get set up with enough hose and fittings to reach every tire on the coach from the air supply ( probably located in the lower right door below the drivers side window ). The first time you have to shell out $ 600.00 Lew bucks for a new tire that was lost to neglect and providing it did'nt wreck you you'll be checking them often. Get truck type tire pressure check and add air tools. Check with Jon on your tire pressure, he has the same size coach as you, besides he has had more experiance than most of us..
Damn I already raised my kids, why am I having to start over with you.
Do some reading and listening before asking questions.
Grumpy Ole Harry

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Geeez. I call him ole Harry a few weeks back and he rips me a new one, and now he is wearing his senior status as a badge of honor.

Dementia.

Ben's numbers are close, but just to be sure Jeff, get that coach weighed loaded as you normally have it loaded. That includes full fuel and water.

Once you know the axle weights, go to the Michelin or tire manufacturer's site for your size tires and inflate the tires according to their recommendations. Do not use the inflation pressures called for by Prevost. They are generic and you want to be at the specified pressures for the best ride and service life from your tires.

[Jeff Bayley]

Harry- Thank you for your paitence. I'll be a good lad and start checking the air more frequently. In addition to the cost of the tire, I've heard that a blow out on a front tire makes for a very hard to control coach (as you might expect I suppose). Someone told me that it happened to them and it took their full strength to control the bus from crashing. Is this an exageration ? Scary if not.

I have a great air gauge and I have valve extenters to get to the inside tires ok. I didn't know you could use the air off your bus to air up the tires however. I like to read and wish I could read more but my coach didn't come with the Royal manual and Royal says they don't have one. I need to find another 97 Royal owner in the group that is willing to make a copy I guess.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

The common sizes for heavy trucks are

11-22.5 and 12-24.5
Unless they are running super singles they have one of the two.
Thats where all the reasonable prices are, and availability too.

I think this would be a good request for the Virtual Coach thread. It would certianly save a bunch of cash.

I think I remember seeing busses for sale on the internet with these "truck" sizes. Couldnt tell ya if they were switched or older busses used common sizes with trucks?

[Joe Cannarozzi]

I think we are Guilty of the DREADED THREAD CREAP here:rolleyes:

[win42]

Jeff B & Jon: I apologize for being so salty today. My Lab woke me up @ 3:AM barking and put me it a roten mood all day. I'll try to remember to stay off the keyboard when this happens. Jeff I don't mind doing what I can to help you, if I can. The POGers out there have certainly helped me a bunch and will continue to help us all. Enjoy our beautiful State of California.
Harry

[Ben]

Are you saying that I should be able to get 110lbs of pressure from my airpump? When I've used the connector below the drivers seat wiring area, I might get 80lbs... seemed to deflate instead of inflate my tire... like the tire was feeding the bus and not the other way around.

[Jeff Bayley]

Harry- Apology accepted. It's been said that even a broke clock is right twice a day. Well, I don't know what the inverse of that is but it might sound something like "Even the most active and helpful POG'ers are going to have an off day once and a while". I think you are appreciated and it seems like you post a lot and help a lot. Sooner or later, we all s, s, s, s-n-a-p. He,he.

[merle&louise]

Ben:

There is a device known as an "air doubler". It is connected ahead of your air hose connection and it doubles the amount of air that your engine will generate. I have one my present coach and I also had one on my 1993 coach. They work very well. I run 140# in the steering tires, and I fill them with the "air doubler".

I will post the name of the manufacturer as soon as I can. If I remember correctly it costs about $350.

Last week at the LSU vs Fresno State game someone released 70 psi of air out of my driver's side front tire @ Tiger Stadium. I always check my tires before I drive and when I saw it I thought that I had a flat. I pumped it up and checked it 5 times on the way home. No leaks. Monday morning I had a tire service check it; no leaks. :D

[win42]

Ben: I thank Tug for bailing me out on that one. Yes there is a way, but you need the doubler device he is refering to. I bought a $89.oo portable compressor that goes to 135 PSI at Costco while I was at Pog2. Jon said he used his bus air for his. He may have told me with the doubler, but I didn't catch that part. What has always puzeled me if the dash air brake guages show 110 -120 psi you cannot get it to a tire. Jon help me out here I'm sinking fast on this one.
Harry

[Ben]

I wasn't able to find any info on an air doubler online... but it looks like there is something called an air amplifier that does what you were talking about.

Here is a diagram of how one works:
http://www.maxprotech.com/animamp.gif

And here are a few links for product info.
http://www.flw.com/haskel/3.htm ("http://www.flw.com/haskel/3.htm")
http://www.interfacedevices.com/airamp.html ("http://www.interfacedevices.com/airamp.html")

I'm not sure which would be best for our application... I'd love to know the brand and model you've got. I'd love one of these... I had one of my drive tires go down to 90lbs and had to call all over the place to find somewhere that would have enough pressure to get it back to 110lbs. There were no truck stops in the area and most tire places were closed because it was a Sunday. I'd love to have 110+lbs on tap straight from the bus... that would get me to check my tire pressure all the time.

Thanks so much for mentioning this... I've always been annoyed that I couldn't get enough pressure from the bus. Sounds like something that Sting should talk Millennium into installing on his new bus.

[Jeff Bayley]

Harry or others- The 89.00 air compressor seems like it would take up less room than the required lenght of air hose to reach the lenght of the bus back to the passenger side. The electric cord can wind up more compact than the air hose no ?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I use my bus auxilliary air system to fill my tires if necessary on the road. The aux. compressor is inadequate because it cuts out at 100 PSI so to get sufficient pressure I just run the bus engine. The bus compressor will cut out at 130 on my bus.

If someone gave me a doubler or amplified I would use it, but for the rare occasions when I have to add air to a tire it is not worth the expense to me.

Ben, the next time you need to add air to a tire run the bus engine.

Tuga, 140 PSI exceeds the Michelin tire pressure maximum. Weigh your coach axles and use the chart to determine the correct pressure. If your front axle weight exceeds 18000 pounds you have exceeded the weight limits for 315R 22.5 tires.

[truk4u]

Remember, your getting the air from the aux tank and it will take a little while due to the volume needed for the tire. You can tweak your air governor a little and set it at 130 instead of the 110 - 120 you may now have. I set mine at 130 the same as Jon.

Jon, I think Tuga is on 24.5's up front.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Tom,

The ragin' cajun has 315's on the steer axle, and I know if he is over 18000 pounds he has a problem. If the turn radius and clearances allow, and he is currently overweight, he may be a candidate for 365's.

[MangoMike]

Imre,

Glad you're getting into the swing of things here. You know it's positive when you start recommending Cool Tools.

Just beware of the Dark Side.

Mango Mike

[merle&louise]

Jon:

You are correct; my steer tires are 315/80 R 22.5 Michelins Load L rating and the max pressure is 130#. 140# is a no no. My error, thanks for the correction. I weighed the coach and my front axle weighed 16,910# and the each tire will support 9090# according to Michelin with 130 psi.
Does that mean that my payload on the front is:
18,000 GVWR minus 16,910 = 1090# ?
The rear tires are 11 R 24.5 Michelins and I run 110 psi in drive axle and 80 psi in the tag axle.

Ben:

The air doubler is made by SMC Booster Regulator
Model # NVBA 1110-T02N. There was no address or website on the unit.
I Googled SMC Booster Regulator and stevenengineering.com seems to be the closest match. I looked on their site but could not find my unit.

I am leaving to go out of town but I will try to get more info for you when I get back home.

I think Jon's solution is the least expensive if your system can be tweaked to produce 130 psi. When I purchased the air doubler I was not aware that the system could be adjusted that high.

[merle&louise]

Jon:

I weighed the coach and the front axle weighs 16,910 with an 18,000 GVWR on the front axle.

I am good to go:) :)

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Tuga,

Well....maybe you are good to go.

Your axle weight certainly does not exceed the capability of the tires, inflated to the pressure required for the load, but what is the front axle rating of the coach? Newell must have a plate somewhere that lists axle ratings, along with the gross vehicle (GVW) weight and gross combination weight (GCW). The GVW is the maximum allowable weight of the coach, and within that weight you are likely to have individual axle limits that when totalled add up to more than the GVW. You should not exceed any individual axle weight, or the GVW.

The GCW represents the weight of the coach, plus the weight of the vehicle being towed.

[garyde]

When I was at Liberty, there was talk , which I have read before ,about one Prevsost Converter at least, who had exceeded the weight on their Conversion on the Front end. So , All those out there who are still looking for a Prevost Coach should be aware of these posts. To have a Coach too heavy in the front before you Sit down is not a good thing!

[Jon Wehrenberg]

In the interests of insuring the information we discuss is identified as a know fact or assumption, how is it you know there is a safety margin.

I am not trying to pull your chain as much as I am concerned that someone trying to sell a coach that exceeds the Prevost axle limits would explain their serious engineering faux pas by claiming they really are overweight, but it is OK.

BTW, without naming names of the converters (there are two that I think fall into this category) when Prevost was putting on seminars at the Prevost Proud rallies in the early nineties there was a serious warning to all owners that overloading an axle could have dire consequences.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn last night and I did not engineer a Prevost coach, but I think when the manufacturer of the shell says that an axle limit is XXXX, they did not just make up that number.

There is no doubt in my mind that you can overload our axles and unless the amount is extreme, the coach will handle that extra weight. But the minute an owner chooses to exceed the limits he becomes a test pilot. His problems may be as simple as shortened bearing life, or poor tire wear. Or more seriously his overloaded condition may compromise the coach's braking. There are likely a few hundred conversions going up and down the highway with a front axle overloaded so whatever bad is happening, it is not so bad there is any widespread concern.

But the minute we start looking at axle limits as nothing more than suggestions, then I see us going down a slippery slope in which temperature limits, maintenance requirements, and other limits are also tossed out the window.

If I were ever involved in an accident with a coach that had an overloaded axle, I will certainly use that to try to extract the largest amount of money I could from the owner and the converter.

[win42]

I know of an actual case of a Winnebago that sold new and was determined to be too heavy for the chasis. The dealer gave them the runaround, It was headed to court and Winnebago stepped up and took it back and furnished a new coach of their choosing. Because they went through so much hell to get it done they chose the top of the line Chieftain with every option available and got it.
Jon is right this overloading is serious business. Snap something under there and buy a bridge abutment.