Drivers License

[Don]

I am a new member so this is my first thread

The information I have gotten from reading other threads has been very helpful in selecting a used Marathon that I hope will give my wife and I many years of enjoyment.

I have a class C license.

I have always been told that a person with a class C license could drive any Motorhome that motorhomes were exempt from any special license.

I have read several different state MVA laws and as I understand it, from reading them any vehicle including a Motorhome over 26000 pounds require you to have a class B license.

I would like some input on this subject.

Example but not limited to.

Do all of you have a class A or B license????

Do the police not enforce the issue, ETC???

Has anyone tried to get a license in any of the remaining lower 47 states with a Montana LLC Title and tags???

[Jon Wehrenberg]

The state you reside in (and presumably your coach is registered in) controls what license you are required to have. In TN for example a regular driver license is all that is required to drive a 45 foot coach registered in TN. Other states, CA for example require a Class B (non-commercial) to drive the same coach.

There are two schools of thought relative to a license. The one I hold is that if you do not possess a license showing at the least that you have the skills to drive a heavy big coach if you are involved in an accident it would be easy for the other side's lawyer to question how you could possibly be qualified to even be on the road. The other viewpoint is if you possess a higher class license such as a Commercial Class B the officer that stops you for a traffic infraction will be harder on you since you should be expected to know better. I have no clue which is the better approach since I have a Class A license yet have never been stopped in the 20 plus years I have owned and driven my coach.

The Montana title and license issue has been discussed at length here and while there is no doubt you can save taxes or licensing fees, the revenue hungry states that are being deprived of those fees due to the "loophole" in laws have been shown to be going after those who use Montana licensing to evade taxes, as opposed to avoiding taxes (which is legal). Recently since the economic crunch it has been posted here that there have been reports of substantial penalties for coach owners who have used the Montana licensing loophole. Apparently the key to avoiding hassles and penalties if caught is to make sure the coach and toad both have the Montanna license, and if the coach is parked in a state other than Montana, keep it and the plates out of sight of jealous neighbors and nosy taxmen.

As to enforcement, a lot of us are overlength for example. A 45 foot coach towing almost any vehicle in excess of 15 or 16 feet is beyond the length limit for most states. Some of us are overweight on an axle. Some of us lack the correct driver license. But because we are motorhomes we apparently are not high priority when it comes to enforcement. That is not necessarily true however if we get stupid and push other drivers up the fast lane at excessive speeds. For the most part as long as we don't draw attention to ourselves we tend to not be targets for law enforcement.

[Will Garner]

Don,

I vote with Jon. In NC a Class C is the only license required for operation of an RV. I tried to get a CDL but they won't allow that unless I can seat more than 16 passengers. Not a chance that's going to happen; or pull a trailer with a GVWR of more that 10,000 pounds. They would let me get a "Classified B" license with the coach. I also had to take a road test to get the license. The examiner, a nice lady, said she had never given a road test in one of these. Proves there is a first time for everything. I asked her where she wanted me to drive and she said Myrtle Beach SC. I said fine, I'm full of fuel and we can be back before closing time. I think she thought I was serious, well maybe I was. I got the license and have not been pulled for anything other than citrus going into California. Looks like California should be just as concerned over what pests may be leaving the State in their citrus products to check all outbound vehicles for citrus products. That would be one way to keep Pelosi at home!

[Gary Carmichael]

AHMEN Brother

[Ray Davis]

As Jon mentioned, in CA any motorhome over 40 foot in length requires a class B license. I believe most of the CA poggers have gone to the trouble of getting that license. The biggest concern to me was if involved in an accident, and not having a valid license, would leave you vulnerable to all sorts of legal attacks, and possibly your insurance refusing to pay etc. Not worth it in my book.

As for the Montana plates, as an example in CA they are now actively looking for Montana registered motorhomes, specifically towing a car with CA plates. They will stop you for that, even going into RV parks I'm told, and ask you 5 questions.

1. In which state do you live?
2. In which state is your car licensed?
3. In which state to you file state taxes?
4. In which state do you work?
5. In which state is your motorhome licensed?

If the answer to 1-4 is CA, and the last one is Montana, you're up to your neck in fines, penalties, tax evasion charges etc. I believe the Colorado boys have also indicated the CO is going heavily after Montana plate holders.

Ray


ps: I would venture to guess that it's NOT where your bus is titled/registered that determines what type of DL you require, but which state your DL issued issued.

[Don]

Again as others have said being a member of POG is money well spent.
I now have a class B learner’s permit in my pocket.
I have passed the written test.
I will have a class B or class A licensed driver with me until I pass the three test mentioned below
I will take the, pre trip inspection, off street maneuvers, and driving test ASAP.
I am going back to the Maryland MVA ASAP to get the procedure that I will need to follow in order to transfer the Prevost from Pennsylvania to Maryland
(I know, pay the current owner First)

[Ray Davis]

Congratulations on working towards the class B. So, I assume it's required in Maryland?

[Don]

Rest assured it is I have been to the MVA and was assured that any vehicle over 200,001 pounds especially with air braked, you need a class B license

I talked with a rep of a large Maryland Motorhome sales company today and he assured me that anyone can drive any Motorhome in the state of Maryland with a class C license.

I think the link below will prove to anyone that you need a class B license in Maryland

http://www.mva.maryland.gov/Driver-Services/Apply/recreation.htm

As I mentioned before I now have a class B learners
I hope to have a class B license in a timely bases.
The coach is on its way.

[Sid Tuls]

What coversion and year did you buy? I bet your having a hard time sleeping!! I know i did when i was waiting for my coach.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Sure looks like a Class B is required. Apart from the fact you have to go through the testing, one of the most significant benefits to the driver is the license test will verify you know and understand the air brake system, something that is very important to know and understand.

If the test does not go into detail on the air brake system try to do some study to learn how it operates and how to do pre-trip inspections of the system.

[Don]

Response to the first question, 1995 Marathon XL 45 with matching stacker
the answer to the second,I sleep well its the little guys in my head that lay awake all night running back in forth, talking Etc Etc.

[Don]

I have very good mentors with class A & B license such as School Bus mechanics, instructors. Tractor trailer drivers, Etc
Yes I will practice the walk around pre driving test many times dwelling on the air brakes
I will Practice the pre road test many times before actually taking the real test.
As I drive my other vehicles I constantly practice as if I were taking the test
That being said I will probably fail at least the first time, I have always tested poorly.
I pulled a rabbit out of a hat on the written test and aced it 100%, how did I do that?

[AmeriStar]

There is an in interesting artical in 'Changing Gears" about this very subject.
It has a hand state by state guide for what each state requires for rv's. In most states, a CDL is not required to operate any size of motorhome, but a few require either a non commercial class B, or a full blown CDL.
I personally feel a better trained driver is best behind the wheel, but I disagree that a noncommercial driver in a noncommercial vehicle must conform to the rules imposed by these money hungry states.
The link to this page is http://changingears.com/rv-sec-state-rv-license.shtml
Hopefully this will shed some light on what the rules are in your state.

[Gary Carmichael]

Maybe I am wrong but I have asked before and the 26000 lb apply to commercial, non commercial and private coach's need only a class C

[Jon Wehrenberg]

The link provided by Ameristar (assuming it is accurate and it appears so) shows certain states require Class B or other licenses beyond the standard driver license.

Because as RVs we are below everyone's radar as long as we drive safely and do not draw attention to ourselves we can and likely have gotten away with not possessing the right class license. But as soon as we meet up with law enforcement because of a traffic infraction or an accident the failure to have the correct license gets to become a serious issue. Not only does it enable an opposing attorney to get some means by which to extract money from your wallet or that of your insurance company, if you are driving out of class your bus doesn't move until a driver with the right class license is available. If you really want to compound the problem, tow a vehicle or stacker trailer that has you exceeding the state's length limits and you not only get a driver for the bus, you need to find a vehicle to tow the trailer to the state line.

It is so much more peace of mind having the correct license in your pocket. I suspect that alone will minimize the grief that can potentially follow and encounter with an officer.

[dmatz]

So I live in NY, I tested and received the "R" endorsement for rv over 26000 lbs per NY state law, does it cover me in all states if other states have a different requirement?

[jack14r]

As I understand it the states have reciprocity in the area of vehicle laws,which means that if you comply with your home state laws then you are legal throughout the country.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

My brain just kicked in on post #11 by Don. He lists a stacker trailer.

Unless the weight of the trailer and the contents is less than 10,000 pounds, I think a Class A license is going to be required. Having that when pulled over for exceeding the length limit in most states may make a bad situation a lot better than it could be. 65' is the length limit for a lot of states and few 45 foot coaches and stacker trailers meet that requirement.

Also, as a new owner, if the stacker does weigh more than 10,000 pounds understand that unless the Prevost hitch has been upgraded it exceeds the Prevost limits for towing.

[Don]

To answer your questions or concerns on the legal weight issue of being able to pull a stacker in Maryland,
In the Maryland MVA Drivers hand book on page 5, Fifth column down 9 columns to the right(see link below) you will see that a class B non commercial (recreational Vehicle, Firefighters Rescue Squads, and certain Farmers)(Truck trailer Combination) Class B license will legalize you to operate any Motorhome with any trailer with no weight restrictions in Maryland
That being said, lets face it, there has to be a limit which my guess none of us will exceed.

http://www.mva.maryland.gov/Resources/DL-002B.pdf

As you can see the only Motorhome restriction that is imposed on a class B non commercial license is a, tractor & trailer which you would need a class A license (There are not many Tractor Trailer motorhomes around.

As far as length, A lady at the MVA ask me how long the total vehicle length would be and I told her 70 feet she said that she thought 63 feet was the maximum length allowed in Maryland

She said let me go and check, when she came back she moved on to another subject and never gave me an answer on length, and to be perfectly honest I never ask (I will find out and tell you later)

The coach has been all over the USA following NASCAR with no problems.

Thanks for the question on the Prevost hitch towing limits I will check on that issue as soon as I receive the coach

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Don,

With all due respect it doesn't matter if the coach and trailer has been all over the USA following NASCAR with no problems. There is a very good reason why Prevost has a weight limitation on its hitch. If you get to understand how the engine cradle is cantilevered off the axle structure you will appreciate that excessive hitch weight at some point will begin to reveal the impact on the coach structure.

I have seen several coaches that have had the limits exceeded at some point and the first signs of that are cracks around the attachment rivets on the rear cap and along the entire back of the rear cap just above the doors. The cracks are hairline cracks and not readily visible but they are the first indication the back end of the bus has been flexed up and down.

The only solution is to upgrade to a 20,000 pound hitch or reduce the trailer weight.

[Don]

Thanks for your help i will pre deliver inspect and do what ever i need to do.
I will keep you informed.

[Don]

Update
I do have experience with a 36 foot plastic coach
I purchased the Prevost and trailer without the proper license in hopes of passing the B test
After reading the CDL instruction manual which I downloaded over the internet.
I went to the local MVA to ask some questions that the little guys were asking in the back of my head.
This is how it went
1 Open door, walked in to the MVA
2 I go to the information desk.
3 She gives me a number and tells me to see the lady that gives out the license
4 I sit and weight (you know all of you have been there)
5 My number is called the nice lady answers a few questions (not all that the little guys in my head are screaming at me though)
6 I guess she had had enough if my silly questions and told me to go to the law room.
7 I go to the law office
8 the nice guy told me to have a seat in chair # 1
9 I sit
10 I look at him ready to ask some questions
11 He tells me to turn around and take the written test (I have a time frame that has already started (little guys say hurry up)
12 The little guys tell me that I have nothing to lose because it has cost me nothing as of yet and that it probably will not unless I pass the test
13 I tell them to shut up and let me concentrate on the questions
14 Before my time has elapsed the would be I thought Law professional (ha written examiner told me that I had passed with 100%) ya ha
15 Now I get another number and weight again
16 Photo op, answer questions, eye exam, Got my B learners in pocket (off and running)
17 Days later with the help of friends with class A license we take delivery of the coach
(The wife and I had spent several days and nights in it and settled up the money earlier in the week)
18 Now I cannot take the pre trip, off street maneuvers or drivers test on the road for nearly a month because of scheduling.
19 Weight in agony
20 Practice Practice Practice did I forget to mention Practice
21 Passed the pre trip with flying colors (which included the air brake test)
22 Passed the off street maneuvers test with flying colors
23 2/3 thru the road test the examiner ask how much experience I had with driving the coach (little guys start to chatter amongst them selves)(Shut up)
24 Bottom line, as told by the examiner Passed the entire B test exceptionally well
25 Now if I can only continue to do well, I will be a happy Prevost camper
26 1st major stop Prevost Jacksonville, Florida (to have level 3 work preformed) (plus)
27 I have been told that at 72 I am getting to old for all of this and that I only have 30 years max to enjoy my Prevost, which is 15 years old. We (you) shall see which one lives the longest.

I have upgraded the class C M license to a class B M license with a J restriction (RV AUTHORIZED ONLY)

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Congratulations. Apart from the peace of mind that comes with being properly licensed and having proven your skills, you may also be entitled to a discount on your insurance policy. Check with them to see if they offer discounts for the liciense. National Interstate does.

BTW, we all hear voices in our heads.

[truk4u]

Nice Job and welcome to POG. Let us know your year, make and model to help with maintenance questions. Most of us include that info with our signature.