Next Best Continent to Motor Home in

[Jeff Bayley]

If I were to consider going elsewhere besides North America including Canada to expand my horizons and ship the bus, what would be the best country to go to ? Given the either small or bad roads of some countries and my limited knowledge of world travel I have no starting point. Service would also be an issue but would have to be considered the least important. If something breaks, I'll have to order parts and raise the bar on my own DIY skills. Of course Europe seems to be the obvious knee jerk answer to me but I have never been and really am about as much of a green horn on this question as could be.

[Kenneth Brewer]

If I were to consider going elsewhere besides North America including Canada to expand my horizons and ship the bus, what would be the best country to go to ? Given the either small or bad roads of some countries and my limited knowledge of world travel I have no starting point. Service would also be an issue but would have to be considered the least important. If something breaks, I'll have to order parts and raise the bar on my own DIY skills. Of course Europe seems to be the obvious knee jerk answer to me but I have never been and really am about as much of a green horn on this question as could be.

Unfortunately, my (perhaps faulty) understanding is that 102" wide vehicles will be over width, though by very little (I have read the maximum is near 101.5", but I don't know if this requires something special in licensing/registration). I would agree about Europe, but not former Iron Block countries, and I would think it very difficult to manage in European cities without better turning radii. Parking anywhere in an urban area will be a headache, if it possible at all for a private vehicle the size of our coaches. Headlights may be an issue. I would think that left side countries (just England in Europe) are best left off the list unless you have had prior experience and feel confident; it isn't as much an issue when in traffic as when there is no traffic, and you forget what side to be on (trust me). Additionally, you will be entering/leaving on the street side in that case. You will be dry camping most (all?) the time, and where there is power available, you will need conversion equipment. Dumping and watering places are further issues. European RVs are almost always much smaller. And camping areas are extremely unlikely, it seems to me, to be paved (and it rains often, so think mud, especially the British Isles). If I were forced to do this, I would pick Spain/Portugal. Finally, have smelling salts handy and a soft mattress to faint on when it comes time to fill up (and gas stations large enough to accommodate you will not be plentiful).

[ajducote]

Jeff,

If it were me, I would start with this GOOGLE search:
renting caravans in Europe

I for one would not take a Prevost to Europe for my 1st overseas RV experience. Rent a European RV (caravan) and get a taste of how things work over there. Might even suggest going on a guided tour to learn the ropes. I spent 4 years in England and traveled to Scotland and Germany. The European way of camping is much different then what we are use to. There were places that I had trouble getting a 4 door Dodge Power Wagon pickup into. Roads are narrow, bridges can be low. The ground can be very soft, the power is different.

Do a LOT of reserach before you spend the money on shiiping a Prevost. For the cost of shipping and any conversions that need to be done to function overseas, you could buy a used caravan and probably come out ahead.

just my .02 cents worth of comments.

[travelite]

Here's a segment of a thread where one of our Wanderlodge members photo-logged his tour thru Europe in a Blue Bird:
http://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=927&page=44

[gmcbuffalo]

The power over in Germany is 50 cycles not 60 like we have.

I think the rental idea is the best option. What would it cost to ship a bus to Europe?

Greg

[Kenneth Brewer]

As some may know, I grew up, partially (don't) in Germany. Never mind when. To convert European power for use in American devices, we kept several converters around that were very heavy boxes the size of perhaps two shoe boxes, as they were not only transformers to step down voltage, but internally was also motor-gen set so that (a sine wave was generated) 60 Hz was produced (this was decades before modified square wave approximated sine wave generating solid state devices were developed, such as found in most inverter/chargers) for running things like record players and tape recorders, hair dryers, and movie projectors (remember those?), things that employed synchronous motors.

As was just pointed out, 50 Hz is the standard in most of the rest of the world where AC is transmitted on power lines. Modern electronics' power supplies accept varying supply voltages and AC frequencies as well. Unfortunately, our coaches don't, as a rule.

[Jeff Bayley]

Thank you all. I think that idea is a bust for the very obvious as stated. Plan B is to consider trying to trade one of my buses for a really nice class C van conversion. Some have M.Benz diesel for power. The power conversion would still be an issue but with those smaller vans requiring less power I presume I could get a converter adequate / big enough while trying to convert power for our buses sounds possible but not practical. At least not without firefighting a large amount of bay space/ storage. The smaller size on the increased cost of fuel and all the other reasons make this a second consideration. The rental sounds good. I'm considering South and Central America also. I've heard that Mexico has a god condition Hwy and if done carefully is not a death wish. But I don't know.

[Jeff Bayley]

So I'm doing research now on Central America. My wife has a small cabin and land in the mountains. Deciding whether to ship the bus with us or not if make a permanent move there. Considering revenue generating ideas in addition to current business of pre-owned cosmetic laser sales which my wife is now able to run all on her own now and I'm free to develop something else. After 15 years of this I need something new to throw myself into. Could be possible pocket change to be made offering shuttle service in bus from Airport to tourist destinations in either Panama or bordering Cost Rica. Unlikely business model however I think. Thought about offering an Prevost RV'ing experience package to tourist (including POG'ers) to people that want to go visit but want to travel around instead of be stuck in a resort. I found a really informative site on RV'ing in Mexico and have been reading that all day and will go back to researching as soon as hit the "Post" button here on Costa Rica and Panama. The condition of the roads is of concern. I'm not seasoned world traveler but I did happen to make it to Costa Rica as a surf bum 15 or so years ago. Roads were a deal killer from San Jose over the mountains to the Pacific side. All washed out and pot holes. I have never visited Panama with my wife yet but she says the roads are perfect. Even the roads through the mountains where the property and cabin is located and in good condition and repair I'm told. The mountain roads in Costa Rica took a hell of a beating from the wash out of the rain. I guess Panama somehow got it right with figuring out the run off.

The idea I was thinking about (which is probably not practical or enough demand) would be to offer fellow POG'ers a local connection to arrange for side trips in the RV, fishing charters, .........sort of a Concierge with a bus type of deal. Anyway, even if POG'ers did want to go to Panama they probably wouldn't want to put their trust in me. I'm too crazy. But when I think of traveling I never think of "boy it would be a nice change of pace to go to a resort for a change". I'd rather RV in the US than hotel abroad. That's what I like. The freedom to be random and spontaneous and park where I want, not where the hotel is planted. Jeez it's so ingrained in me that I want to take my bus with me over there and tackle the logistics. Power problems aren't my concern with the on board generator AND 4 back up generators for varying power requirements. Installing a marine style permanent dehumidifier is a must though. I almost put one in a while back and will install one for sure if this plan hammers through.

The idea of renting an RV abroad was a great idea. So if it's so great (and it is) then why not offer rental service for my bus. I would drive and stay in a hotel at night the same way drivers of entertainer coaches do.

I've got some Power Point presentations on Panama I'm having my IT guy post to cyberspace where they can be viewed. Panama City is the most cosmopolitan city in all of Central America and I was surprised to see the modern architecture so far on line. In many ways it is closer to the chic modern trading cities of Hong Kong and Singapore with it's energy and night life. The pictures tell more when I get the Power Point posted.

Panama economy is one of the most dynamic economy's of the Americas. I will be doing research on this for days but this video so far is the best one I found that summarizes the commerce opportunity there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCswiPrdkWhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCswiPrdkWI

I wonder if there are any POG business owners that I could cooperate with there to increase their revenues ? I'm looking forward to the 2nd half of my life and hoping to make it better than the first one. I love the US and there is so much more traveling I could do here and places to see but I need to mix things up in my world and right now I need a change to infuse myself with some new energy. The type of energy I had when I started this business I have now which is working, profitable, but I've just become bored with. I have to give myself a challenge or I'm not satisfied.

I started this thread for advise on where to best motor home but now I'm realizing that my fellow POG'ers are a network worth reaching out to for potential mutually beneficial business opportunities. That could be direct or indirect. I mean to say that even a good tip in the right direction from some of you that are educated and informed could prove to be I am a dirt poor bag boy compared to most of you. I had my first 94 Angola when I was 33 ten years ago and people thought I had really arrived and made it. I didn't think I had done anything at all. Unfortunately, for me, I don't know if I'll ever feel satisfied but at 43 I've still got a chance left to find contentment. I have only met a few of you in person and I'm jealous at the feeling of contentment many have (or at least seem to have). I could sell all 3 of my buses for $350k even to a dealer and take my boat and Waverunners to the cabin with my wife and do an early retirement. Or I could trade one of the buses in on a super nice van conversion RV with a Mercedes diesel, like a 2007 for $70k and walk away with $275k and a small RV that I could be content with to continue the traveling bug. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of cash saved up and it's all in assets. The bulk of those assets being in the 3 Prevosts with about another $70k in cars and boats and Waverunners and motorcycles. When I think about the fact that I was made enough money to dole out $750k in combined investments in just the 3 Prevosts is sort of boggles my mind when I remember a time I was sleeping in my Volvo station wagging semi homeless (only for two weeks on two different occasions). My parents were not wealthy but they had enough money to send me a few hundred bucks but my pride never allowed me to call them. Instead I spend my last $15 on a can of Rain Dance wax and went door to door and got wash and wax jobs and after a few weeks of sweating me butt off in the Florida summer I was able to land on my feet. I've always cherished that decision and felt that it helped to build character. It also has brought me great contempt for kids that I see get to be free loaders off their parents. But it makes you fearless and it lets you take risks because you have already proven to yourself that no matter how bad things get, you can dig yourself out of your hole if your wiling to "wax on, and wax off". That's my safety net. No matter how broke I get, I can wax a car for money. Unless my arms get broken.

[Denny]

The old Jeff is back. Jeff, your last several posts have been relatively short and I was concerned about you. Now it looks like you are back to old form! Welcome back.

[Jeff Bayley]

(I actually managed to make a post beyond the acceptable amount of characters. Oh God. Please help rewire my brain to write less. But for now, here is the balance of my post)

Well guys, this posting of mine is definitely not on bus topic as it evolved. If your still reading this then you either have too much time on your hands or you can relate to my work ethic. I wish I knew more of you in person. I wish I had carved out the time to go to Texas. Fact is that I would have felt like a fish out of water among so many that are so much more successful than me. I'm here in Florida at an RV park, a really nice Encore park, and I've gotten to know many of the full timers. This place has 80% park models. They wind up finding out that I'm the guy with the Prevost and they Ohooo and Ahhhh and think I'm wealthy. I'm not wealthy. I explain to them that they are confused. That if they saw a newer bus they would see that mine is not so nice. It's nice to them. I think it just goes to show that "All things are relative". There are people in prison that are happier than some of us. Happiness is a state of mind. There are people in prison that are happier than some of us because happiness is a state of mind. We do not have control over many things in our lives. The ONLY think we have COMPLETE control over in our lives is our thoughts. No one can change what we choose to think. How we choose to feel. Happy, sad, depressed, appreciative, unfulfilled, what ever. The happiest time in my life was when I was sleeping in my little pick up truck with a camper cover. Oh, maybe I lived in my car 3 times instead of two now that I think about it. Twice in the Volvo wagon and once in the truck. I think I stayed in the truck for more like a month. Maybe that is why I like dry camping. I had not expenses except getting myself 3 square meals a day. I parked by the ocean in Panama City Beach, Florida. I'd wake up and look outside and decide if I was going to wash and wax cars that day or go surfing. When your 18 like I was and the waves are hitting it's a no brainer. You have to commune with nature. To feel alive.

You know what. This is enough. I should go back and delete this post to reduce the "Jeff is crazy" notion but it's probably too late for that anyway. Jon, I really appreciated your post to me to encourage my writing but you may have inadvertently encouraged the monster. I don't mind at all but the other members may give you grief. Of course no one has to read my ramblings. I know that some of you see my posts and say "Oh God, what now". We'll the problem is that I'm a very fast typists and these long winded post full of hot air pour out of me without effort. Evidence of a mis-spent youth practicing my typing speed for high school typing class speed contests. 42 girls and little old me. Nobody beat me. Now if i can only beat the game of life.

Peace out.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jeff, I was serious and you have hit upon a topic that in our 20 years of bus ownership I have wondered why nobody has pursued.

First you have to compile the link listing. While you are doing that here is your next project.

Prevost owners, and POG members in particular are a diverse and fascinating bunch of people. Few if any are members of the lucky sperm club, and a very high percentage of Prevost owners we have met and gotten to know earned their way into a position where they could afford a Prevost the old fashioned way.

Somebody needs to write a book about the Prevost owners. The stories and histories of these folks to Di and I are captivating. We know most owners are private people and reluctant to spill their guts, but every one we have met has anecdotes or stories to tell about their trip up the ladder.

So while you are visiting with the Encore folks, look among them for their stories. I will bet the only difference between a lot of plastic coach owners and Prevost owners is the fact they just didn't realize they could have a Prevost. I'll bet their stories are as interesting as the ones you will find here.

No applause Jeff, just send me a small chunk of your first royalty check.

[Kenneth Brewer]

One issue to be dealt with is the dearth of campgrounds suitable for RVs, and then the issue of larger RVs. Next is the access to either power and/or water, and along with water is suitable dump sites, I would think. While good/paved roads can be found and traveled, they are not likely to provide camping sites near or adjacent to them. This, it would seem to me, means off-road/dirt roads. Likelihood of damage would skyrocket, even just the ability to turn around safely and retrace steps for any larger coach, including class Cs beyond 25 or 26 ft. I have not been to central America, but have been to south America, and very rural Europe. People often think that where automobiles and even buses can travel safely it necessarily means suitable campsites and parks are available. That can be, as you well know, problematic here in the states and Canada (I love my Big Rigs directory). Many gorgeous state parks here often have quite restrictive size limits, well under 30 feet. I would surmise adequate insurance coverage abroad on RVs to rent would be expensive and unavoidable. Tree limbs, tight turns, washed out roads, bridge weight limits and underpass clearances are real problems unless roads are marked, rated, and maintained, with posted grades where hills or mountains exist, without yet considering where campsites are and their accompanying amenities, dry camping or not. In Australia you can frent RVs and/or SUVs, but it is a good idea to have a radio transceiver and post a trip itinerary if you intend to visit the outback, so if necessary, someone can come save you.

Good luck. Don't mind me; I have been cussed before out for throwing cold water. Just my two cents. Incoming.

[treedoc]

Jeff To me you are writing of a simple life. No daily obligations other than 3 square meals. The rat race can really wear on the human mind. I have thought that living in the 1800's would have been a great time in history to have lived. Simple very simple time to have lived. Yes a hard time to have lived but a simple time. We are conditioned the think we have to have. Really my thoughts are, do what is for you and never mind what others are doing. It sounds like you have a gift for writing. I would encourage you to write write write. I have thought that being a artist or writing would be a great quite way to live. But I have neither gift so life goes in another direction. Rick

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Jeff, your sounding a little like Ben Wilmore, look him up and maybe you three can team around on the roads less traveled.

JIM

[Jeff Bayley]

So I'm selling or trading my stuff out for gear to go touring in Mexico and Central America. I'm spending my days emailing people that have $70k price range Itsaca 26' diesel to upgrade to a Prevost in trade.

I'd still take one of those but I'm also interested in these unique 4x4 Motor homes I found which would let me go just about anywhere. No issues or regulations with camping on remote beaches and no way to get stuck with the 4x4 rigs. The fact they look more like garbage trucks would be less likely to attract the banditos but I think a generous supply of guns and some sort of portable remote laser perimeter i can put in the sand for early warning would be cheap enough and let me sleep more sound.

Then I found this unit: http://actionrvcentre.com.au/Motorhome/for-sale/Mercedes-4x4-Motorhome/223.aspx It's in Australia. I expect most of these are outside the US in deserts, Outbacks, jungles, Africa, etc, etc. Shipping it by boat is affordable but my challenge seems to be finding a country that has both these units AND a potential customer for my H3 shell. I checked Australia. I emailed a charter bus company after I found zilch on any Prevost there. The charter company said there aren't any for some roll over standard. ??? The entire large RV market is very small there anyway as RV'ing is limited to the perimeter of the country. The puzzle is to find a 4 x 4 RV (examples below) that someone would want to trade for either my Shell or my finished out Royal. Here's some examples and then I'll explain more.

http://www.unicat.net/ (this is the Prevost of 4x4 Expedition vehicles. They are made over seas but have an office in CA. I have contacted them about 9 months ago and no interest in helping facilitate a trade but I just emailed the salesman again. I wish I could figure out how to get in list of owners and just contact them direct. There could be someone who is done with their 4x4 and has a use for what I have. One thing is for sure, the 4x4 rig (at least if there was one in North America) would be in lower demand than what I have to trade. Very niche.

Here's a picture show of one that show the interior of one in particular: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1btyceCPcg

Then I found this one for sale and emailed the guy already about possible trade for my shell (my shell is something I'd trade for just about anything) Too soon and no reply yet but expect the answer is the same as always "Sorry , need the money". http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52351

What I noticed from the RV dealer in Austrailia that has (or is brokering) the 4x4 RV is that the few 40' RV's they have are priced way higher for their age than what the would be worth here. Supply and demand ? The AUS and US dollar is practically equal so no need to bother converting the prices you see there.

Prevost web site doesn't list any offices outside Canada and the US to my presumption is that this is they are only doing business in North America. I either need to just sell what I have and buy what I want but I thought I'd come out ahead finding one of these awesome rigs for where I'm going and making a trade.

This just popped into my mind. I could find a suitable 4x4 chassis and have an off brand converter build the housing part to my own specs I guess but that's going the opposite direction for savings and reducing costs. They might take my shell in trade for the build out but I'd still need to buy the large scale chassis. If you look here you can see that Unicat will build an RV Pod that will drop in place on the back of a given rig. http://www.unicatamericas.com/secondhand_tc45f.html

Many of them seem to use a Mercedes Benz Unimog chassis. I'll be spending the day trying different search strings and attempting to locate companies that own them. The Unicat site does give some examples of owners in the US that I can research and attempt to contact. I'll try finding different military surplus sales sites. Seems like the US Military could have some of these and might have a use for my shell. I'm probably trying to piece a puzzle together in vein and will wind up having to buy one of these but they are not cheap even used. The 1985 unit in AUS is $75k

Any suggestions ?

[Sid Tuls]

All I can say is good luck. I wouldn't travel in Mexico at this time for all the money in the world. After looking at the pictures of your new ride I sure I would love to stay in the bus. Thats just my $ .02 worth. Be safe!!

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jeff,

Your comment about a 4 X 4 not getting stuck in sand suggests to me you may get stuck.

We spent far too many years in the snow belt of western NY and 4 X 4s were common. While you could drive around in them with 4WD engaged it was far better to do all the driving in 2WD and use the 4WD only when you needed to get unstuck or to get moving on a steep hill. Most inexperienced 4 X 4 drivers use the 4WD feature to get themselves stuck so bad it takes a wrecker to get them out because like you said "no way to get stuck with the 4 X 4 rigs."

I agree with Sid completely. You are thinking paradise and I think Sid and I are thinking drug cartel infested country with far too much danger in remote areas. All you have to do is stumble across some drug operations and a tank may not offer enough protection.

[Jeff Bayley]

Noted on the 4 wheel drive lessons being needed.

I remembered seeing a real read neck RV. It was a regular bumper pull type that had been placed on a tractor trailer with a flat bed. That company Unicat makes and sells the modular drop on portion if you have your own truck.

So I started searching for the chassis made by Mercedes which are Unimog (not be confused with the converter Unicat). I found this one and it's already in Mexico http://tijuana.en.craigslist.com.mx/cto/2079511346.html Unfortunately it's pretty much all the way north in Mexico but I was thinking of RV'ing my way down to Central America anyway. I found a really informative web site on RV'ing in Mexico on the do's and do not's for safety and many other things. http://www.rversonline.org/RV4Mex.html I think the idea of going to a remote beach in Mexico is an invitation for trouble like you guys say but Panama and Costa Rica isn't as crime ridden. Anyway, this chassis in Mexico or another one I can keep shopping for would work to either drop an RV trailer on the back that is fully provisioned with the tanks, A/C and everything already. I guess I could try to ugly it up with camaflage paint and make it look like a hunting vehicle (ie, people assume you have guns in there. ???). Finding this one (and I'm still searching) in Mexico probably represents more negative than possitive. There isn't a good selection of potential campers I'd want to drop on the back there and finding anyone to do any customizing would just be easier here. If the price was better there I could always go buy it there, drive it back to the US and fiddle with it around Texas area until I get it right.

What about building my own pod the way they make here ? http://www.unicatamericas.com/photos_tc45f.html

I just emailed the salesman who already replied today saying no interest in any trade which is what they said before. I have a feeling the price is going to be up there for these drop on Pods they make. If I could find someone to help me design and build my own then I could put bullet proof windows, steel construction, small openings for firing the automatic weapons, a rear gunner to keep firing if they give chase and all those goodies. Kidding (sort of).

Undertaking the systems and building your own Prevost is one thing but something like this could be manageable don't you think ?

The thing that came to mind is the compromise in ride. I'm dealing with a front diesel making noise which is tolerable when your adventuring to your final resting place on the beaches or in the mountains but on several hundred miles of Hwy travel in between the noise and suspension are probably going to give a beating.

Maybe I should just get something like this
http://treasure.craigslist.org/rvs/2020473666.html

I think I'm getting carried away with the 4x4 thing being necessary and it's going to cost more and be less comfortable suspension.

By the way, I think I have a done deal on a Cherokee 6 for those of you like Jon that know about planes in trade for my Angola. Hanger kept, really updated avionics but I have to get somebody that knows planes to help me check it out. I'll take lessons after I get the plane. So maybe that toy is just plain more sensible since I can avoid all the bad roads throughout latin america all together and just get a hotel from place to place. I just got used to RV'ing and like not having to pack and unpack. I think I've talked myself out of the 4x4 RV.

Here's some snap shots of the plane. It's a 1981 with about 3,000 total hours. Guy sent me all the logs which I can't interpret but he is the 2nd owner and loosing his medical. I've got the list of avionics somewhere but those of you that know planes can probably tell a little from the pictures. Has extra fuel tanks also. Asking price was 115,000

[Woody]

Jeff

BE CAREFULL and get a proper pre-buy inspection.

I sell GA aircraft fo a living if you can call it that and would be happy to look at this Six for you if it's in Florida but you still MUST have a proper pre-buy by an IA who knows the type.

Good luck!

[garyde]

Hey Jeff. First off , let me say I have a negative view of Mexico having owned and lost property and investments in Mexico. There is way too much corruption thru out their entire system. To say they have a legal system is just simply a stretch. You have to understand your on your own down there. There is not the support you have come to expect and depend upon in the US.
Police can not be trusted, there is little in the way of Ambulance or Hospital support. If you get involved in a dispute or accident, you will be automatically arrested, no discussion.
If you get caught with fire arms for self protection, you will be arrested. If you get into fee dispute with a native, you will be arrested.
Mexico has just put out a travelers warning to Americans to not travel at night and to only travel in caravans during the day. There are so many thieves, bandits and drug runners , the govt. can not control their own States within Mexico.
Mexico is not just the wild west, its more like Somalia in some areas.

I would recommend more research as to where you want to travel and the local conditions. Also, unless you want to stay in your vehicle 24/7 you have to understand anything that moves on 4 wheels and is
worth anything is very likely to get stolen. It happened to my step father with his 5th wheel pick up truck, never to be found.
Its best if you blend in and not look like an outsider. That means don't be buying a 4 x4 Van which is eye candy to any thief in Mexico.

[Jeff Bayley]

Gary- Thank you. I think my attention has turned more toward this plane above that I have a good chance of trading for one of the 3 buses and get around in that for a while both in the US, Canada and Latin America. I can just scratch Mexico off the list. Central America isn't so bad unless my wife (from Panama) is out of touch. The thing is she has property there in the mountains about an hour drive from the city with a house that's was left half built it's not much money to finish it there. I'm just getting that itch to go onto a new phase of life. The idea initially was to ditch all 3 buses for about $350k and just forget about the rat race for a while. Panama is very very cheap to live especially since we already have the land and the house is $20,000 to finish if that. If you spend $2,000 a month to live which would be really hard to spend that much, we could live for 12 years. If I'm still alive or Armageddon hasn't come yet then I can go back to work. We can still do our same business from there to keep from getting too bored.

The Overland RV's had captured my attention but I decided those things are overboard for Central America. We do need something to stay in while the house is being finished but I'm just going to get something smaller and around $25,000. I found this one that I haven't looked at yet but seems like a good possible. http://treasure.craigslist.org/rvs/2020473666.html

The Overland RV's are Great for Australia or Africa and many people do ship them around the world for travel but the Outback all begins to look the same after 3 days I think. I think most of the people getting these specialty vehicles are using them work related somehow. Researchers, video journalist, etc. Here's a site I found for anyone with time on their hands of a guy that built his own and is pretty cool http://www.robgray.com/default_2.php You can see the way the interior came out (nice) along the very well documented construction process. http://www.robgray.com/graynomad/wothahellizat/wot2/diaries/diary_21/index.php Just go to the top of the page and his knifed up the diary of construction into about 23 different pages you can check out if interested. The whole Overland RV'ing is a niche and there are forums on it just like we have for our Prevost. The best one I found is http://www.expeditionportal.com Doing a search for "Unimog" brings up some good thread's. Mercedes built Unimog seems to be the standard choice for chassis to build upon. I found only one so far that was for sale in the US and it's sold. This is not a forum but the best site I found so fare with units for sale and interesting to get a sense for how they can be set up http://www.xor.org.uk/unimog/uksell/uksell.htm

But I'm ditching that plan for now unless I can find someone to trade for my shell which is unlikely. I'm anxious to see if this deal with the airplane trade will go through and if it does, I'm trading off the bandito dangers for the dangers of my own mind. I'm really going to have to put a new personality if I am to survive from killing myself in the airplane. I know people are thinking "Jeff Bayley behind the controls of an airplane ?" I know. It scares me too. So there goes $150k out the window for the semi retirement plan and don't forget the ongoing cost of ownership and fuel. It's 1100 miles from Panama City to Miami and that plane will make the trip w/o refueling with the extra fuel tanks that have been added. The specs on the plane rate it at # Maximum speed: 174 mph (280 km/h) # Cruise speed: 168 mph (272 km/h). The owner told me at 150mph it burns 14 gph. So that is a 7 hour trip at a 100 gallons. It looks like fuel at airports is around $5.00 a gallon so that's a $1000 round trip as opposed to a $350 round trip commercial. Save the wear and tear, time and safety of flying over open water. So trips back and forth to the US don't compute but getting the plane there and flying to different points in Central America could be fun (for a while) and I expect that we'll have sales we can do in Mexico City which is also more practical to fly commercial at 1,500 miles away.

I'm really not worried about making a poor buying decision because the trade is in my favor money wise. But is a plane like that practical to fly around the world in ? From Newfoundland to Greenland to Iceland and then to Norway or the UK are all about 800 mile legs. Take time to spend some time in each place on the way but then your now in Europe to fly all around for business and pleasure. That's crossing a lot of open water but I can't think of crash landing in the ocean at a stall speed of around 45mph being much worse crash landing in the mountains over Central America. Going to need one of those survival rafts and a sattalite phone assuming I'm conscious after the "water landing" and can get the life raft out of the plane before it sinks (seems unlikely). Are you guys enjoying this ? I'm already planning on how to avoid being on the TV show "I shouldn't be alive". Man there's some real knuckle heads on that show. Those guy are straight up stupid the way they get themselves lost and stranded at sea or lost in the woods. How about the one where the sailboat was going down in the storm and the guy pulls the cord to inflate the life raft that has all the provisions and beakon, fresh water maker and gear and the wind just rips it out of his hands and it blows away into the night. Ooops. Note to self. Tie a rope to your wrist and the raft next time before inflating it. Who would have thought. Two of the 4 survived in the dingy with no supplies. The others were compelled to drink sea water eventually which made them straight up crazy and they stood up and walked right off the boat and fed themselves to the sharks that were constantly with them. Check that show out if you want "I Shouldn't be Alive". It's a great show to watch to learn how to think ahead.

So I'm taking a nap with the plane on auto pilot across that 800 mile leg over the ocean then ? (kidding, I'm really reading). Hopefully all that happens is I loose the engine and the wings don't rip of. I'm at 10,000 feet. I've already got the life raft right on top (you know instead of buried under the luggage. I can hold the plane up over the water until it reaches it's stall speed which I think is either 40 or 45 miles per hour. The plane hits the water and cartwheels. Assuming I'm not knocked unconscious, I've got less than a minute to get the raft and myself in the water. Oh, I forgot. I'm crashing into the ice cold ocean. That's ugly. Now I have to hope the doors aren't slammed shut from the wreck and I can get the rear door open to pull the life raft out while I'm hyperventilating from the freezing water. Is that about how it would work ? They must make a portable manual air bag you can pull to inflate to put between yourself and the controls to reduce the chest and head injuries while you try to to get your arms around and perform the crash landing.

I think I'm wasting the other 5 seats. Nobody will get in the plane with me.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jeff,

Forget the plane. I don't think you have any idea how much discipline is required to fly safely. We have some real pilots in POG in the form of John and Brian and I think they would echo my comments.

Aviation is not only extremely dangerous for a pilot that doesn't bring the proper mindset to the table, it is so expensive it will make Prevost ownership seem like the best bargain you have ever had.

With your free flow of ideas on how to make you bus better (the generator thing, the waste oil thing, etc.) you impress me as someone who will ignore the requirements for everything related to the plane to be done by the book with proper paperwork and inspections and will end up in a very dangerous situation.

As to becoming a safe pilot there is no substitute for training and experience. I don't believe you understand the risks of a new pilot embarking on the adventures you describe. Getting a pilot license is the beginning of hundreds if not thousands of hours of training and gathering experience before heading across the ocean or even down to South America. Get a boat.

[Jeff Bayley]

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain". Your vote to veto is noted but I'd welcome answers from other's as well instead of that post being a thread killer. Most people that have gotten to know me through the forum would tend to agree with you and I even know myself that I have to put a new personality for this. I have been in private planes before and noted the pre-flight check list (as just one example) that the owner went through on the most simplistic things. Some would think "why does he need that list for these things ? Why doesn't he just check that everything is a "go" and go. But I do get the seriousness of flying. I would say the only thing that helps offset my negatives is that I love to read and study and I can get my head wrapped around the learning process. What I was thinking was trying to hook up a retired pilot that does't have a plane to fly with me for an indefinite time period after getting licensed. The 6 seater plane means there's room to bring his wife if he wants to. I'll have to find the best airplane forum to put that out there and find one (or several) pilots that might be interested.

Now what does catch my attention is the cost of ownership that you say is through the roof. From the way you caution me on the expense , I don't want to be blindsided by the cost. Even if I trade just to "make a deal" it's seems as though it's a good trade. But I don't even know how much it costs to hangar a plane and I would want to hanger this one instead of tie down because it's been hangared all of it's life. I do have a guy willing to trade for a 37' sailboat with lots of recent upgrades and an equally attractive trade. I can sail but I still need to learn to read charts and navigate properly. No fuel costs but a lot of swabbing the decks to keep it in good shape. So that's an open option. I'm considering that the plane would make doing business better for me (the bus did) but that is a rationalization to justify the purchase.

[Sid Tuls]

Jeff I know you don't eat BEEF but I think its time to sit back and enjoy a good old steak dinner and rethink things.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jeff,

I will stick with my previous advice because you are basically a guy who pushes the envelope. As soon as you begin doing that in a plane you have just become a test pilot. I don't need anything more than to recall your attitude about camping in NYC to know that as you become comfortable in a plane you are going to give less respect to the rules which are only for others to follow.

If that does not make you reconsider think about this. Hangar....$400 a month here in Knoxville if you can find a hangar, to $800 a month in south Florida. Insurance, probably several thousand a year. Depends on your experience and the value of the aircraft. Annual inspections, IFR certifications, charts, GPS updates, fuel for a Cherokee 6 at about $5.00 per gallon and about 15 gallons per hour or more. The engine and installation cost is going to be north of $40,000. Prop, $5,000. Avionics repairs and maintenance work could be very cheap if everything works to very expensive if repairs are needed. I rarely get out of the shop for less than $2000 per visit. I would estimate the cost to fly a Cherokee 6, not including depreciation or the cost of invested capital or borrowed money to be anywhere from $150 per hour up to twice that amount depending on the number of hours flown and local costs such as hangar. My costs are $225 per hour and I have flown it a lot the last couple of years. With my fixed expenses I am spending $10,000 per year before I fly the first hour. My last two years for which I have totals have cost me about $90,000. Aviation is not for sissies.

Of course if you put your mind to it you can beat the system. Pilots do that. They fly with out of date charts, close the hangar doors and do their own repairs, do not take recurrent training, use auto gas, and find a friendly mechanic that will log inspections without doing them or who are willing to do shoddy inspections.

As a novice you noted other pilots using checklists for every minor detail. Are you suggesting the same guy who will dry camp at Radio City will change attitude as he becomes less overwhelmed with aviation and continue to dot the "I's" and cross the "T's"? Aren't the rules for the other guys? Be honest with yourself.

[Jeff Bayley]

Yes, you are both right. I should not rush into anything. I should dwell on all this for a while. I've had no bites on the Angola I'm selling but I've only got it up on one classified site for sale and I'm anxious to get down to two buses instead of 3. What I should do maybe that is the most sensible is research if there is a market for private charter's within Central America. It's just about 1,000 miles from Panama City to the Mexico border if safety or any other concerns prevented wanting to cross over into there. It's 300 miles from San Jose Costa Rica to Panama City. Seems like some business men (or tourist) might be prospects for a private flight. I have to email the right people there to see if I can hand the plane over to them and their pilot for charters and get some revenue out of it. Then if I wanted to travel, I wouldn't have to pay for the plane charter, just the pilot. No clue what cost are there for hanger and maintainence but a live in maid is $100 a month. That's not a very good baseline to compare to qualified mechanic but jobs in general pay very little there. If the plane is registered in Central America, the question would be whether that presents lower operating costs in terms of maintainence, inspections, etc without compromising safety. And does a Panamanian registered airplane have any problem visiting the US as a tourist when the time comes. I'm married now to Stefanny who is Panamanian and has duel citizenship and as her husband I can also now be a Panamanian Citizen without giving up US citizen. Not sure how all this shakes out with what I wrote above but I think that gives some angles on the best of both worlds somehow.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Obviously you will look into the completely different regulations which apply to aircraft flown for hire. The cost of owning and maintaining a plane flown for hire is staggering.

[truk4u]

Jeff,

I've had lots of airplanes, a Cherokee 6 (260) included. Here's my advise to you:

BOAT:rolleyes:

[garyde]

With Airplanes, it only takes one mistake, one bad decision, one mechanical problem, one change in the weather, to ruin your day.

[Jeff Bayley]

Ok mow I'm really coninced maybe you guys like me ok otherwise you' send me off into the wild blue yonder never to have to be bothered by my post again. Sonif I show and post some info on the sailboat I was thinking of before will you help me ? I'll start digging for it now. There's a guy allmof avsudden going to br today to lookout thevAngola for a cash sale so then I can buy whatever I want. I was trying to rationalize the plane trade justbto make avdeal and off the bus.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Jeff, either you started drinking early this morning or your still asleep. Your slurrrrrrrrring your words like crazy in the last post.. !!! ?

Gary S.

[Jeff Bayley]

No in was using the I phone speech to text recognition to application while driving. Its not Perfectected yet. Texting the old way is illegal........... and very unsafe.

[Jeff Bayley]

Here's the description of the boat. Need to see if the value of this is between $125-$150k if anyone can guess.

1984 Baltic 38DP Sailboat boat one of only 5 made with retractable keel (5'5" up 8'8" down making it perfect for Bahamas, Caribbean and Pacific cruising)

It has a new carbon fiber mast, new yanmar engine, new prop, new cushions, new varnish, new corian counters, new Force 10 Stove/Oven, new drawer inserts, 2006 Garmin Chartplotter system, Complete up to date B&G instruments including sea temp, Raytheon ST7000 Autopilot, New shore power including battery conditioner and battery wire harness, Alpine cd player with ipod control, mostly new spectra halyards, new back stay hydraulic 05, life raft, ditch bag with hand held watermaker, etc... This is a go anywhere boat and also has a custom Bauer dive compressor built in accompanied by 4 aluminum recently hydro certified dive tanks bought 03.

The boat will sleep two forward, two singles onthe sofas onthe center salon and two togather in the double berth in The aft cabin totalling six. Obviously the fewer the greater the comfort. However, my trips to the Bahamas usually wind up with 5 -6 people and we always have a great time. As I mentioned the previous owner outfitted the vessel with a scuba theme. As sailing is done in warm weather there never has been much need for a hot water heater. Set up for blue water the water system is designed from a simplistic reliable standpoint as is the rest of the vessel minimizing excessive diagnosis charges. I also had a new leather grip installed on the helm 2 months ago


(here were the owners comments on two boats I emailed him to compare to)

The first boat needs new teak decks: $42,000. It has the original Yanmar engine whereas mine is new only aproximately 200 (Replaced with new Yanmar 8hp more $10K) hours of use on it, the electronics on this boat do not even rate, add another 12 -$15,000 for my electronics package, new cushions on mine $9000, two speed Gori Prop $2000+, custom Bauer dive compressor 5- 10K, Carbon Fiber Mast $50,000. What you and surveyors have a hard time seeing the amount of electrolysis happing in the mast. It could be fine and could be thin and break first storm. Mine has a new Force 10 stove/oven, new corian counters, new asymmetrical spinnaker used 3 times, comes with avon dinghy and yamaha 5hp outboard. It looks like a nice boat but would cost you well over 100K to bring it to the condition of my boat as far as options. Without seeing the vessel I can not comment on the hull. Mine may need some minor things compared this one, but all the majors on mine are taken care of.

The second one looks like a nice boat. Hard to see overall, and one never knows if the pictures are current or previously taken? That one I would have to go look at but looks comparable. Seems to be more money and less performance. If I were going to spend that kind of money I would start with mine and put the funds into it. Mine is 80% redone. New paint, new binnacle, and some minor things you are virtually new. The big difference is the retractable keel. In Florida and the Bahamas 3 feet cuts your ports of call more than half! For instance 6 feet max for Bimini Bahamas and a majority of the Abaco. Parts of the intercoastal are fairly shallow as well. It also makes finding dock space a lot easier as deeper draft docks usually cost more, at least on the east coast, as there are more docks for 6 feet than 10.

Once again the big reason many sell the Baltics are the cost of replacing the teek decks. Without looking at the second listing I would not know.

The most important thing is for you to make a list of what is important. If you want to take on a project or not? My boat is no longer a project. All the majors have been done. While there are some such as paint, that is relatively minor to the above mentioned items. I can tell you my carrying costs now are minimal having taken care of the major items. My friends are bugging me to sail across the Atlantic to Finland and spend the summer sailing with them. One of my best friends as an beautiful 1982 Baltic 37 over there. Anyway just add up the improvements to my boat and you will realize the value. There are a few Baltic 38s floating around the states for sale which all need major work.

[Woody]

Jeff

You've heard this from me before - get a really good survey from a VERY well regarded surveyor.

With a boat of this type please make sure he is a member of NAMS.

Jon has told you about expected expenses for sophisticated aircraft, the same goes for yachts, the big difference is that there are NO regulated standards for floating stuff as opposed to airborne.

Good luck. The Baltic 38DP is a great design and Baltic is a Prevost class builder.

[garyde]

Hi Jeff. Maybe you should spend some time down in Panama and see if you like the lifestyle before buying anything.

[pwf252]

Jeff,
Agreeing with Gary you might wish to visit for an extended period as things tend to be quite slow and sedate in Central America countries and judging from your posts that doesn't seem to be your nature. Just my 2 cents worth.

[CCMH]

Jeff..... I FOUND IT! It's for sale in the california delta, and will solve ALL your issues! Built for the movie "Cape Fear" with Robert Mitchum in 1962. Should make the trip ok, but beware of any waves or surf over 18 inches as it could become a little "rocky" on your journey, but the pontoons seem to be in GREAT SHAPE! And the gravity fed water system works AWESOME!!

[Jeff Bayley]

You'll all be glad to know that I've discarded the plain option fully. Time has made me come to my senses. I'm getting my head wrapped around sailing with that same boat I put pictures of above. The idea is wind up with about $200,000 cash after the boat purchase (which is not that much to some of you) but that 200k will certainly last a lot longer on the boat than it will with the plane per the expenses that Jon jolted me with. Some other private plane owners said the first thing you do is get one or two partners to share the fixed costs (Hanger, Annuals) but the boat notion and communing with the ocean will suit me fine.

What I'm going to start doing now is looking for either a single man or possible a couple with gad's of sailing experience that want to sail but don't have a boat and want to go with us so we can learn as we travel. Reading charts, sailing around the reefs instead of into them, avoiding floating in the ocean and being shark food, avoiding uttering the words "I'm getting the life raft ready". You know, those types of things. Anything that will keep me off the TV show "I Shouldn't Be Alive".

Looking at the world maps and distances however, there are expanses of no less than 500 miles with an exception being about a 250 mile stretch up around Alaska and over toward Russia. Do people sail these vast distances and cross the Atlantic or Pacific (to Hawaii is 2,700 miles) or between Brazil to Africa which about 1,700 miles without touching land ? I need to find a good sailing forum to join instead of posting this here I guess. I'm certain the answer is yes so the next question is "Is a 38' boat up to the task or is a boat that is limited to Caribbean sailing". Once you get to another continent (assuming you make the big trip) then the idea in my mind is to stay in marina's either site seeing or trying to get some work done and then just sail on days then the conditions are ideal. I guess bigger is better and a 60' sailboat is going to be more sea worthy in rough seas but even if I could afford one of those that is a lot of boat to cut your teeth on learning. A bigger boat might have room for a Waverunner on the deck but this one doesn't. There was a huge Catamaran that toted a Zodiac on the back but I can't afford it. But take a look at this mean machine. http://www.doubletimecat.com/ You could stay in port and pick your sailing days and cover the same distance in half the time with this monster.

Incidentley , I got a call from a manufacture of one of the the big bad 4x4 Overland vehicles like the ones that Unicat makes. He's got a 30k mile cab Unimog Mercedes that he's dropping the RV portion on the bed of it on. He say's it will be worth about $250k when he's done. He's willing to take my shell for $150k on trade but I don't think I want to cough up the other in cash difference or assets. Just a wild crazy idea here but is anyone as board as I am and has seen their fill of this country (the Best of course) and wants RV in other continents ? That's where these Overland RV's are made for. There is a very small market for them here. The links to some of them in my prior post I think. The deal is, you also have to have the money to ship the thing from continent to continent. So I checked the distances. It's around 9,000 miles starting from either France or the West of Africa to Singapore (presumably where you would then ship it around 2,200 miles by ocean to Australia. You could spend a couple years before needing to go to Australia. Overall, the variety of countries and places to see within That is if you want to RV in Africa for a while then go see Australia by RV. I just remembered there's a doctor in India that owes me $40,000 so a pit stop there in the boat would make a tidy collection for the maintainence fund. But it would be cool if the right two couples got together. One with the sailboat, the other one with the Overland RV. The two couples could sort of cooperate together and trade off within the same continent. One RV'ing for a few months through the parts of Africa or Eurasia, the other sailing around the coast of Africa and Eurasia. The we could trade off once and a while and change things up. For people who are not certain and confident of each other (and it takes a wild turkey to do that with me so I'm probably giving most of you a good laugh at even the idea), it would require that the person purchasing one unit (either the boat or the Overland Vehicle) be completely content with their game plan of either RV'ing through Eurasia or sailing around the world. Then you would have to do a trial with the logistics and concepts of trading off and if you were lucky enough for it to work you could do it again and again as often as one party or the other decided it wasn't suitable for them anymore (maybe they don't like Overland RV'ing OR the sailing and want to bail out and sell for example). If the couple really got along well together they could sample the idea of sailing together several thousand miles around Eurasia, then putting the boat in port and flying back to where the Overland RV was and traveling together on a junket that way but these things are cramped for people that really don't already know they love and can put up with each other so that idea is probably a stretch. Two single guys would probably have a better chance at making that work. I can make myself single by the way for this if necessarily. But I suggest we don't date in women in Africa along the way. Uh,uh. Now these You Tube videos below are showing off the off road capabilities of the units. But you can dry camp in the cities also. Who the hell wants to spend all their time in the outback ? But it makes short cuts a lot more fun and it I can imagine the wildlife and scenery to be viewed. These have sattalite TV, you carry at least two spares and a motorcycle or 4 wheeler and of course not one but two sattalite phones for emergency. I love the episode of "I Shouldn't Be Alive" where the guys somehow get stranded and stuck in Antarctica to finally get rescued by a helicopter that then CRASH lands and their they are stuck for a 2nd time. The guy had thought ahead to have a sattalite phone but guess what ? Dead battery.

So either Armageddon or a nuclear bomb or old age is coming for us either way. Let's go.

Check out these videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4peXKzX59Hw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YbSaEZ0NYY&NR=1&feature=fvwp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoHBHEmv79M&feature=related


Here are some of the high lights of the boat I'm eye balling:

I have close to 300K into my 1987 Baltic 38DP Sailboat boat one of only 5 made with retractable keel (5'5" up 8'8" down making it perfect for Bahamas, Caribbean and Pacific cruising), with and know it is not worth what i have into it. It has a new carbon fiber mast, new yanmar engine, new prop, new cushions, new varnish, new corian counters, new Force 10 Stove/Oven, new drawer inserts, 2006 Garmin Chartplotter system, Complete up to date B&G instruments including sea temp, Raytheon ST7000 Autopilot, New shore power including battery conditioner and battery wire harness, Alpine cd player with ipod control, mostly new spectra halyards, new back stay hydraulic 05, life raft, ditch bag with hand held watermaker, etc... This is a go anywhere boat and also has a custom Bauer dive compressor built in accompanied by 4 aluminum recently hydro certified dive tanks bought 03.

[Sid Tuls]

Jeff, my nephew is doing what you are thinking about doing. You can fallow him on his site downtimecat.blogspot.com His name is Pete Tuls and is taking a year to sail the seas that your talking about. If I can help you in in other way give me a call 559-901-6426

[stevet903]

Jeff - have you ever done any sailing offshore? Do you get seasick? I had a dream once to sail around the world.... Learned to sail, did some coastal racing around Marblehead, sailed to Maine, Newport, Long Island Sound... Learned navigation, seamanship.. I still had a nagging problem - seasickness. Not all the time, just in big seas (No problem, I thought, you get your sea legs after a few days out)... Finally the time came to put up or shut up - My friend decided he wanted to go to Bermuda from Marblehead, about a 5 day, 600 mile trip and he wanted me to join him. After spending over $15K to get a 5 year old 32' Freedom ready, we set sail on a calm evening. Once we came out of the Cape Cod Canal, the waves began building, and building and building. I puked and puked and puked. But, I figured, I'll get my sea legs and be fine. Five days and 20 pounds lighter, after a fairly good crossing of the Gulf Stream (just 20 - 25 ft waves), I finally stopped puking in St George's Harbor. It was miserable, and it wasn't even stormy.

Lessons learned - A 32' boat is not that comfortable when there are big seas. At this point, it might have to be at least a couple hundred feet for me... Once you get out there, you are on your own - while I was hoping for rescue, by any means possible (you get that way after being sick for days), we saw no other ships or boats until we were about 20 miles from land. If you are not thoroughly prepared - food, boat, equipment, skills, etc, it's very easy to get into trouble. Remember that on any long passage, you get to a point where you must take what mother nature dishes out for as long as she chooses because you simply can't duck into a harbor. You must be able to put up with your shipmates, because you can't get more than the length of your boat away... You also must have someone else that has roughly the same level of sailing skills as you - if your wife can't sail the boat and you go overboard, how is she going to get you?

I could write a couple pages - but you get the idea. There's a big difference between coastal sailing and offshore sailing. Charter a boat, hire a captain, and sail a couple weeks in the Caribbean. You can do some island hopping on a longer cruise and get some limited offshore experience. You can also check out the difference between a cat and a monohull. Check out http://www.moorings.com/.

Steve

[stevet903]

Jeff - the other thing your Baltic ad didn't mention are sails - a new spinnaker is fairly cheap, and not very useful most of the time. What's in the sail inventory, how old is each and how much use do they have? If they are all from 1987, you are probably looking at replacement soon, especially if you are planning to go offshore. You could easily drop $20K on new sails or more. Don't rush to buy a boat, they are probably selling as about fast as buses. There are lots of boats out there, and some great values.

[Jeff Bayley]

Steve- Thank you for the input I deperatley desire. I'm pretty sure the sails are not that old but will check. I am not prone to sea sickness. I did get it 15 years ago on a cruise ship but not that bad. The thing I've learned about getting ill is mainly when your eyes are seeing something different than your body. When people start to feel sick, the first thing they naturally do is say "I need to go down below and lay down" The motion down below makes it worse. The best thing they could do for themselves is get to the bow of the boat (weather a cruise ship or smaller vessel) and keep their eyes on the horizon so their inerds and eyeballs are synchronized so to speak. If your sailing, even in rough water, and moving about on deck either working the rigging or at the helm, etc, then the chances of getting sick are much less. But if you have the propensity for sea sickness this is not a guarantee cure all. I can imagine that I would be the the type that would be fine as long as I'm on deck or at the controls and could ride through it like a bucking bull but what if the rough seas last for days ? Eventually you need rest and that could potentially be a problem for me. In other words, I am not prone to sea sickness but I am also not immune to it but it has in fact been years since the last time I got sick.

The idea of going for an extended trip on the boat I'm interested in would be a great idea to both water test the boat and to body test the sea sickness again.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

[Jeff Bayley]

Steve- Thank you for the input I deperatley desire. I'm pretty sure the sails are not that old but will check. I am not prone to sea sickness. I did get it 15 years ago on a cruise ship but not that bad. The thing I've learned about getting ill is mainly when your eyes are seeing something different than your body. When people start to feel sick, the first thing they naturally do is say "I need to go down below and lay down" The motion down below makes it worse. The best thing they could do for themselves is get to the bow of the boat (weather a cruise ship or smaller vessel) and keep their eyes on the horizon so their inerds and eyeballs are synchronized so to speak. If your sailing, even in rough water, and moving about on deck either working the rigging or at the helm, etc, then the chances of getting sick are much less. But if you have the propensity for sea sickness this is not a guarantee cure all. I can imagine that I would be the the type that would be fine as long as I'm on deck or at the controls and could ride through it like a bucking bull but what if the rough seas last for days ? Eventually you need rest and that could potentially be a problem for me. In other words, I am not prone to sea sickness but I am also not immune to it but it has in fact been years since the last time I got sick.

The idea of going for an extended trip on the boat I'm interested in would be a great idea to both water test the boat and to body test the sea sickness again.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

[Sid Tuls]

Jeff did ya have a chance to check on my nephew's blog?

[Jeff Bayley]

Sid- I did check out that Blog of your Nephew's but only after you reminded me the 2nd time. I'm glad you did and glad I read it. Some of the stories made me want to take my time and think this through more. Mainly just not being able to control the weather. I didn't do a a lot of thinking or RV'ing before getting into the bus. My Angola was my very first RV of any sort. I've loved it and no regrets so I may be thinking my decision on a boat, plane or other asset will be just as positive but that may not be the case. I'm going to also consider the Overland 4x4 RV. That is closer to what I'm used to of course and I have a better idea of what to expect. You have a lot more control instead of the weather controlling you. You can see a lot more instead of only seeing what's along the coast. Who knows, if I shipped the think to Eurasia in time maybe your Nephew would want to do some Overland RV'ing with us there and we could tag along a couple legs of the trip in his big Cat with them like I mentioned above. I think we could probably make business along the travels in Eurasia with the pre-owned medical equipment if we were able to meet with people in person. I was wondering if there were outback areas with sponsored medical posts or small hospitals in poor countries where used medical equipment could be in demand. I should start researching that. Right now we just sell cosmetic lasers which would be the last thing those poor countries could use. I'm have to transition to more medically necessary devices but using my suppliers and contacts here I could find out what was needed in person and shaking hands with the buyers and then order the goods in with confidence of the condition since I know who I'm buying from over here. General Electric recycles it's own MRI's for example with are hundreds of thousands used instead of over a million for new. Maybe they (or some other big enough company) could work an angle with me to sponsor us and this Overland RV could somehow make a formula for making a circuit on the poverty countries and it could be humanitarian. I guess I'm imaging the commercials for sponsoring the children where they say that food and medical supplies are in short supply. Anyone with any ideas on this or information or even time on their hands with nothing better to do that might help me find some relevant data or articles on line would be great. I'll start researching this angle myself but it's a big World Wide Web to catch it all with one person. Donated medical equipment and supplies have to be making their way around the world right now so I'd have to see if the Overland RV could help fill some niche that isn't already being filled.

[Sid Tuls]

Jeff, I know that Pete is always looking for people to hook up with. I don't know alot about that lifestyle but do know that he is a certified captain to sail. You can hook up with him and try it for a week or two and then you will have a better idea if thats what you want. If you want me to call him let me know and we can see what we can do. I think he and his girlfriend are the adventurous type wait I know they are since they are taking a year off to sail around the world!!:-) Hope this is of some help.

[garyde]

The challenge with furnishing electrical equipment to different parts of the world is the electrical generating of each nation. Some are 220 volt at 50 Hertz which are not easily converted to American or European equipment specs. Other issues I would think involve training and finding qualified people .
Most of these countries are looking more toward Doctors and medicines, not so much equipment.

[Jeff Bayley]

Yes Gary your right on your points. It’s amazing how a 3 or 4 line reply can provoke such a long reply from myself. I’m working out an idea for a new project and will probably make a new dedicated threat after this post but it still is on topic of what I started of “RV’ing in other continents”.

They make heavy duty converter boxes that are only about $150 that do the trick for the equipment that get's left behind but if in Central America I think it's all 110 like we do as well as optional 220. Just like we do here. My wife confirms that is the case in Panama at least. Panama City is the most metropolitan off all of Central America but I have a feeling it goes through all of Central America the same way. Africa probably not.

Vaccines and preventing the mortality rate of children overshadows most of what I have in mind to offer but I'm going to explore a bit more into my niche because I can only offer my niche if I can find a way to make it work. Don't know how to get the vaccines for them. I probably need to get inoculated myself.

I might have some prospective sponsors for the 4x4 Expedition RV to go through either Central America or Africa doing laser cataract eye surgery. I would either have to tow a custom made high clearance trailer that would be the treatment room separate from the Unimog RV or use a self propelled rig like the 35’ rolling showroom with a 20kw generator that I already own that could be suitable as a mobile medical unit but it is underpowered so would only go where it can’t get stuck but the more I think about it the less I think the hard core off road of a Unimog is necessary. Still sorting it out.

The thing with the cataract surgery is that it is is quick to perform so an Ophthalmologist could do approximately 8 cases a day. Maybe a few more. A cataract surgery can take between 20 minutes up to an hour (if there are complications.) Some of these countries have basic needs that can captivate the attention of world relief efforts and non-profits like the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees overshadow the eye health care procedures. Clean water supply for one thing. Matt Damon is behind a non-profit called www.water.org It’s goal is to get clean drinking water through filtration systems (left in place permentatley) to these people. You can see a lot of what they've done so far on the web site but just looking at Honduras http://water.org/projects/honduras/ almost half of the 7.8 million people either have no water or no sanitation. But I don't know how to help with the water problem and if I did it would cost millions according to the financial statements published on water.org web site. But preventing blindness IS some humanitarian thing that I have connections for both in the used equipment and doctors that would volunteer a week or two at a time in rotation to do the work. Plastic Surgeons fly around the world and do volunteer surgeries right now for a non-profit that mostly does babies born with cleft lips. See http://www.resurge.org/home/home.cfm

My initial estimates for the cost of this is under $500,000 start up costs for the 4x4 Unimog and RV and custom medical trailer to tow behind the Unimog but that cost can go way down if the Unimog can be replaced with some 26’ F-450 chassis what are used or the unit I already own. The 26' Turttle Tops have Diesel engines and quiet diesel onan gens, dual roof A/C’s Motosat Internet system that can be used to video conference with other MD’s from the field to review data and make recommendations. These units have an automatic awning and are curretnley outfitted as mobile offices with no holding tanks but at under $30k each, 2006 models and an average of 30,000 miles each they trim a lot of cost even if you spend $10,000 to convert it to 4 wheel drive (no lift kit in mind. Don’t even know if it would be practical).

For the Unimog model, the trailer combination would allow the trailer to detach and have its own generator and A/C if the RV should need to go elsewhere temporarily. Maybe to the next village to scout out the logistics, demand, etc. No one is doing anything (for free) Ophthalmic related now in Latin America or Africa that I could find on line but there is an outfit in India doing the procedures for the poor for free. Africa is so big to think about tackling and most likely has worse roads than Central America. Central America seems the logical target for several reasons including that my wife is Panamanian so the language is automatically not a problem. If an American doctor wants to volunteer (I anticipate I will have a waiting list), then my wife can translate between doctor and patient. Many of the plastic surgeons that volunteer for the resurge.org (link above) are American. I've been researching non-stop for days. Here's an excerpt from the group in India:
(begin excerpt)

According to World Health Organization, every minute one child goes blind. It is estimated that 1.4 million children are blind worldwide and another millions more are visually impaired. In India, there are about 400 million children in the age group, 0 – 17 years that constitutes about 35% of the India’s total population. About 30 million children (8-9%) of the total children would need some type of eye care intervention. Ironically 80% of this is needless – can be corrected through simple cataract surgery or by providing a pair of spectacles. If we take care of these 30 million children, the problem of visual impairment in this age group will come down drastically. (end of excerpt)

Eye care are by no means limited to children and cataracts affect all age groups into the elderly.
Ophthalmic lasers and my ties to that industry are in my comfort zone. I can get a used eye laser for around $100,000 (or I should say a sponsor could). There may also be the opportunity to sell the used Ophthalmic lasers to hospitals or doctors in the larger cities or other countries (San Juan Costa Rica, Panama City). Mostly the angle would be to bring this to people for free and continuing to sell like we do now (buy and sell over the phone throughout the USA and what we can into Latin America) would be something we would keep doing part time. I feel so frustrated that I don't have a few hundred thousand more dollars just to put the thing together myself and get down there and start doing the procedures assuming that the rest of the research and due diligence shakes out.
I checked the statistics on the percentage of age groups 1-17 in Honduras and it’s roughly the same as the numbers in India as you might expect. Using the Indian numbers of 8% of that number needing some kind of eye care it translates into a little less than 230,000 children. Not counting Guatemala or other neighboring countries Hypothetically, if we could get to 12 a day that is less than 5,000 a year working 7 days a week. If you could provision the trailer to do let two doctors at a time work that still is only 10,000 a year. I don’t think any of these non-profits trying to solve the sanitation or any other problems of the water for example have things mapped out where they say “By the year 2025 at our current rate the water problems of the world will be solved”. I think they are just trying to do what they can and to their part.

I have some of my own money and assets to use but not enough to get the job done so I have to put together a proposal (after a lot more number crunching) to send to potential sponsors. I found the 4x4 converter (here in the US !) to take my double slide shell (oh thank you Lord) in trade for a Mercedes Benz Unimog U500 he has which rides as well as the bus or most cars he tell me. It’s the deluxe model of the Unimog’s. They are used world wide so parts are no more difficult to acquire than with anything else and most likely easier. This converter says he’s always wanted to see if he could make a Prevost 4 wheel drive. Don’t know what his plans are for my shell but please……..take it. The model U500 has an air ride seat and superior suspension compared to other models I’m told. I was wondering if we would get beat to hell at highway speed if we get lucky enough to find a decent road but he says ride quality is very comfortable.

Most of the traveling will be on roads or paths that are well worn and traveled so towing a 25’ to 30’ trailer should not be a problem. If you watch the promotional videos for these vehicles however you see them doing amazing things like going half way under water and over rocks, etc. Don’t think I’ll need that but nice to have.

The prospect for trade of the shell got the Unimog cab and flat bed with 30,000 miles on it. It will be around $250k by the time he puts a typical custom floor plan on the back with a very high quality Prevost quality interior that he normally builds out anyway.

It's only 1,200 miles from tip to tip of Central America but most of the work to be done is between Nicaragua and Guatemala which is about a 500 mile spread. I lot more sensible first territorory to bite off than Africa. Getting the gear in and around the countries should garnish the support of the government and not require any duties and possibly get helpful resources they might afford to offer. Just knowing they aren’t going to find some BS reason to hassle or steal the gear would satisfy me. Getting some endorsement from a UN organization doesn’t seem out of reach especially getting the right consultant to help.

Now I just need to go after companies that can get their mileage worth out of the PR for sponsorship OR find someone that just wants to help. Maybe a philanthropist.

[Jeff Bayley]

The picture of the outside unit above is actually on a Freightlner chassis but one of the pictures I have on hand of his finished work. The 2nd and 3rd ones should be the interior and drivers area of the Mercedes Unimog. The last 3 pictures are 35' bus I own now that I'm not using anymore, has a 20kw Power Tech, 110 and 220 power inside and a buddy cord. This could have application but it's underpowered so getting into any soft dirt is out. Maybe a convoy of the two units is the answer where the Unimog can winch (or tow) the blue rig through any rough patches.

This is still in its infancy and like many of my ideas, I’m counting on the member’s years of experience to clue me on the negatives I’m always over looking. I’d rather not spend time getting to a dead end or finding out the road blocks the hard way so constructive criticism is wanted and needed. I’ll make a dedicated thread for this later after a little more research.