water pump options to replace headhunter or solutions to headhunter pump problems

[amigomillers]

we have a 2001 royale and have been fighting headhunter issues for what seems an eternity!!!!
replaced leaking pump with their new model and have now added the accumulator tank. we are presently reconnected, however, the toilet flushes fine during the daytime, but when we head to bed and do a "test flush" it flushes and flushes and flushes, etc, etc....long enough to put on your shoes, walk outside around the coach to open the bay and hit the switch to turn the pump off. what a pain...we never know when the endless flush will strike again!! the headhunter guy says it is caused by air in the line, if so why does it only happen occasionally?
we are almost to the point of fighting to get our money back and pursue other options.
we've heard others have abandoned headhunter because of price and problems. we would appreciate any alternatives to our present predicament!!!

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Welcome to the asylum we call POG.

As has been mentioned many times before we have answers to any question, but those answers may not be right.

As I read your post I had several questions that may help you get an accurate answer. First, you said it flushes and flushes and flushes, etc, etc. Does that mean the toilet (I assume it is a Headhunter toilet) keeps running as opposed to individual flushes?

The reason for asking is a continuous non stop flow of water as a result of a flush not stopping is a problem associated with the HeadHunter flush valve.

I also have a question about how your coach is set up, not because it will solve the problem, but because your solution seems unusual. Can you not turn your pump on or off from inside the coach? I am not familiar with Royale but it seems to me there should be a switch to control the pump inside.

As to "air in the line" that sounds bogus. If your toilet runs continuously it is a safe bet if there was air in the line it was pushed out by the steady flow of water. If as I suspect the problem is with the flush valve it is likely some dirt or foreign material has gotten into the valve and it is interfering with the operation of the valve, which functions just like the flush valves in a public restroom and are very reliable.

[Loc]

Amigomillers - that has to be you Danny. We must have roped you into POG when we were at Kerrville. Welcome to the asylum.

I think Jon is on the right track with the flush value. I don't get an eternal flush, but do ocassionally encounter a continously running water pump. It generally happens when I have had the pump off for some time and I believe that air builds up in the lines. To remedy it I just run the water in both bathroom sinks, the shower, the toilet and kitchen sink and that seems to get the air out of the line.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Just to roil the water Mr. Loc, once the water system is pressurized by the pump and air has been purged, explain to me how air can get in the lines.

Talk slow because I'm having trouble with this concept.

[Loc]

Jon,

This happens when the pump has been off for a period of time. Once I purge the air it doesn't happen again until the pump has been off for a relatively long period of time. It also doesn't happen every time. I am supposing that it is air in the lines and that the pump is having a tough time getting to a steady pressure to shut off. I actually don't really know that air is the culprit, but when I open the fawcets their seems to be some discharge of air. As long as I can get the pump to stop running and I don't have water leaks I really am not concerned about it.

Go pick on JDUB.

[garyde]

Hi Amigo. Jon is right, you should have a circuitbreaker switch inside your coach for the water pump.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Unless and until the water system pressure in the lines drops to atmospheric pressure I cannot understand how it is possible for water to enter the lines.

Admittedly I am basing my understanding on my well pump in the house, my Groco pump in the bus and my Shurflo back up pump in the bus. Once my water system is pressurized and whatever air has been burped I cannot understand how air can possibly enter the system unless it has been in the system. But having said that, on our buses specifically, if the water tank is full, water system pressure is zero and a faucet is opened, head pressure from the tank primes the pump and pushes whatever air may be in the pump out and into the system. At that point normal water usage removes the bubble of air.

I have no experience with Headhunter pumps beyond a lot of folks bitching about them and a seemingly large number replacing them.

[Lawrence M.]

I didn't have the exact same problem, but for what it's worth: I had a problem with piping from the water tank to the Head Hunter pump. It leaked water ever so slightly. When the water level in the tank got down to approximately 30% through general usage, the water leak would turn into an air leak and the pump would lose it's prime and keep cycling trying to build pressure until the automatic shut off took over. In my coach, the water line on the suction side takes a 12" vertical loop to accomodate a small filter. The leak was in this area and easily fixed. Check for a small leak around your new pump. I also agree with Jon that it sounds like your problem also might be in the flush valve.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Larry has hit upon a possible cause that I never considered. He is right, if there is a small leak on the inlet side of the pump it will suck air along with water. However, I suspect you will see that leak and if there is one you have possibly got bigger problems than air in the water system. You may have water damage (hidden) as a result of the leak unless it is internal in the tank.

[wayne]

We also encounter the "endless flush" upon occasion and it has been narrowed down to the flush valve.
We lifted the lid (corian held with velcro) behind the toilet to expose the valve....there is a little blue dial on the valve that adjusts the length of the flush.....we twisted the little dial fully both ways several times and it seems to dislodge any accumulated dust. Then reset the dial to the desired flush length...tested by flushing the toilet.
Worked for us....new flush valve is now on the list of repairs. :-)
Hope this helps.

Jill

[Bill1170]

Since I changed out my old pump I have had the problem pf the pump shutting off for no apparent reason. Headhunter has been no help. I see no leaks around the pump. Anyone had this problem?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I wouldn't forge ahead and get a new flush valve. If you were to open the existing one up (remove the six screws) all you would see is a rubber diaphraghm and a solenoid device that unseats the diaphragm to initiate the flush. When I had my problem I took it apart and made sure it was completely free of any foreign material inside the valve. Unless and until every last trace of dirt or debris is removed the continuous flush problem can crop up any time as the crud inside the valve blocks or inhibits the flow of water through the tiny hole in the diaphraghm.

The hardest part for me was gaining access because the valve was buried under cabinets, so in addition to fixing the valve I also relocated it so access and disassembly is easy. Of course since I did that the damn thing has worked perfectly.

[wayne]

Thanks Jon....we'll be looking into that fix later today....thankfully ours has easy access as we lack the skills to be relocating anything! :-)

[amigomillers]

Jon thanks for all your wonderful replies!! We feel this is our best option for now, but just as you, the adder valve assy is inside the water bay cabinet which will require much disassembly to remove the front of the cabinet. First of all, we are installing an "on/off" switch in the bathroom to control the pump so we don't have to run outside to the bay like "a chicken with it's head cut off" to turn off the pump when the flush fails to shut off properly. Most of the time, it flushes fine.

Our thanks to all for their replies and suggestions. This is a WONDERFUL RESOURCE!

Danny and Debbie

[amigomillers]

Bill, We had this problem, too after replacing the pump. Headhunter told us the pump was shutting itself off because of overheating from having to cycle too frequently. They said we needed to purchase and install the accompaning accumulator tank. What we have since heard (not from headhunter) is that the old design had the accumulator tank built in and the new design does not! We have installed the accumulator tank and that issue was resolved. As per our other posts, we're not out of the woods with our other issues, yet.

[Alek&Lucia]

Danny and Debbie,

You should have disconnect for your Headhunter pump inside of your bus.
Look at my enclosed photos and check your breaker box. In my bus is # 5. Remember that if you don't use the system, hard water built-up inside of the flush valve can cause some problems. You already should have water softener installed in your Royale. use it.
BTW: I still like the whole Headhunter system

Alek

[Bill1170]

Thanks Amigomillers, where did you get the tank and what size is it? Sounds like it is a good solution to my problem.
Bill

[mikedee]

I had the same issue with my 2001 Royale and a new Mach 5 Headhunter pump. I got an small pressure tank from Sears for about $70.00 and installed it under the bathroom sink. Dead space under the sink behind the plumbing made a perfect spot. I put a tee in the cold line and the pump has not shut off once on overheating. Main cause of overheating was the washer wanting a little water and starting/stopping the pump. My bet on the toilet, bad flush valve diaphragm or spring. Get a new one don't rebuild it.

Got to love the Headhunter Mach 5 water flow.

[Bill1170]

Thanks Mike, I will install the tank and hope it solves my problem.

[amigomillers]

we bought ours through headhunter:
Andrew 954-581-6996
$99 plus shipping
1 gal tank
ours looks very much like the sears tank in the photo. we installed ours inside the bay cabinet above and behind the new pump.
good luck
danny and debbie

[amigomillers]

thanks a million! found the breaker. danny took the adder valve assy apart ystdy, cleaned the diaphram, and reassembled.....so far our problems appear SOLVED!!!!!
we're SO glad POG came to buckhorn for their rally. a great bunch of folks and what a wonderful resource. we have a casita up on the hill, so if you're in the area, look us up.
danny and debbie
2001 royale

[hobobimmer]

Hello everyone and Happy New Year! I just searched this thread for the problem we are having, and I don't see anything related to our issue, so I'll post it here to see what the POG braintrust has to offer. We have 2003 Liberty Lady Classic with the Headhunter Mach 5 water pump. It has been flawless...until yesterday. We used the bus on a trip middle December. Absolutely no issues. I turned off the water pump inside, on the breaker, and ran water out of my water lines through the faucets, as I wanted to reduce the pressure on the lines in preparation for changing the water filters in the plumbing bay. I did not have time to accomplish the filter change before Christmas. Yesterday, I decided I would sanitize the system prior to changing the filters. I filled tank, added the appropriate amount of bleach, then went inside to run the faucets, etc to run the bleach/water through the lines. The water pump came on, but it didn't sound quite right. I thought it was probably taking a minute to bring water into the lines, since they were mainly empty. It ran for a very short while and tripped the breaker. It did this a couple of times after I reset the breaker. I went outside and cleaned the little strainer just before the water inlet, thinking maybe there was an obstruction. No change. I opened the primer top on top of unit to make sure it didn't need to be reprimed. Water came out of this hole, so I assume it it primed. The pump sounds like it has power, but the sound of it is more of a motor trying to run and not the water pump running. The lights on top of the mach 5 show pump is on and power is on. But it has flipped the breaker each time I tried it, and did not pump any water out of any of our faucets.So, I drained and rinsed the tank and refilled it so my bleach water would not sit in there too long. We are hoping to leave Monday or Tuesday for a trip, so if anyone has any great ideas, or ideas I might try, I would greatly appreciate it. Again bus has not moved since pump ran completely normally 2 or 3 weeks ago. Bus is in barn, temp as not been below 40 in barn any of the time, and our bay heater has been on just in case, so there is no chance anything has frozen. What say you??????? Anyone??? Thank you! Deb

[hobobimmer]

PS, there are no alarm codes on the pump alarm. The breaker that is tripping is on our Liberty Panel, it is not the breaker on the water pump itself.

[phorner]

Just a wild guess based on your description, it sounds as if the pump impeller may be stuck. As to why it would be stuck I haven't a clue. Could be as simple as a minute piece of debris got stuck.

If it sounds like the motor is trying to turn, but the "pump" portion doesn't seem to want to turn, it may be a stuck impeller. This would also most likely make the breaker trip.

[hobobimmer]

Thanks, Paul. Based on my experience with swimming pool pumps, a stuck impeller is what I thought it sounded like, but I didn't know if there was an impeller in there or not. Do you know if there is an easy way to get in there to manually try to rotate the impeller? I may go tap on it with something to see if I can dislodge whatever it is. If anyone else has any ideas, please let me know. Thanks. Deb

[Alek&Lucia]

FIRST TURN THE PUMP OFF !
Then look on the end of the pump for a slotted plastic srew/cap.
Open it, then stick a long flat screwdriver in to it. Move the impeller left or right to make it loose.
Should work , flash light will help.
Good Luck,
In case you need a new pump I have 2 used spare ones, I can sell one. I always carry one spare in the basement.

Alek

[Jon Wehrenberg]

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I agree with Paul. If it is tripping breakers something is putting a big load on the motor like a locked motor. But since I do not have and never had a Headhunter pump I won't try to suggest things.

But the picture above was my preemptive strike against a pump failure screwing up our trip or travel plans.

Some converters use two pumps similar to the one pictured. Assuming they have a way of knowing if one quits they have a back up for pump failure. So I added that little Shurflo so if the primary pump fails for whatever reason, throwing a switch gets me up and running. It is not the size of the primary pump but at least it provides water flow and adequate pressure. We can't shower and flush at the same time, but can do either separately just fine.

It took a couple of hours to install.

A few pieces of tubing and fittings, some flexible hose and a switch and peace of mind.

[hobobimmer]

Thanks everyone!!! I am VERY pleased to report that the Faires Bus now has water once again!!! Paul, your advice was right on. Alek, your picture is what did the trick. Jon, we have a new sureflo that we carried as a spare on the old bus. Perhaps one day I will get very ambitious and install it as a back up. That is a very smart idea. For anyone who needs to do this in the future on a Liberty, you will find that you only have about 2.5-3 inches clearance between the tank and the cap that Alex described. It is a screw out plastic cap. There is just enough room to stick part of a little flat head screwdriver into the slot. You can get the plastic cap out by moving (not rotating, since there is no room to use screwdriver as a screwdriver) the screwdriver in a counterclockwise direction. With a good mirror and light you can peep back in there to see the slot on the end of the impeller. Once you get the screwdriver in the proper orientation, which was only hard due to the limited space and having to do it by feel instead of sight, it was only a matter of putting a fair amount of force into turning it free. I just rotated it a few times left and right. Went back into the bus, turned the pump on and just like magic, there was water! I ran it for a while to make sure all was free to spin. All seems normal. I just stopped the happy dance long enough to post this post. Thank you again! I know POG would come through. Deb

[Alek&Lucia]

Deb,

Congratulations ! Good News ! Nice way to start New Year !
Now, if you have Headhunter RoyalFlush toilet you need big pump to operate. Sureflo alone will not provide pressure that you need it.
That is why I carry spare Headhunter Pump in the basement. The Sureflo will provide water for everything minus the toilet.

Alek

[Jon Wehrenberg]

On my set up with an expansion tank (which was how the coach was built) the Shurflo maintains the water system pressure and the expansion tank delivers a more than adequate flow for the toilet.

If the coach has a Headhunter toilet, but no expansion tank, providing an adequate volume of water at the required pressure might not be possible.

[Alek&Lucia]

Jon is correct, the Surflo will work for the Headhunter toilet if you have the expansion/pressure tank in line with the pump.
BTW: That is how I plumbed the back up system in my Royale.

Alek