WTF it could have been a nice day

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Today started out nice and peaceful, relatively cool weather and very little wind, just right for changing my oil and installing the new FUMATO oil pan valve.

I got all the tools and supplies ready and in place and slithered under the bus, when WTF, to find the last person that changed the oil reinstalled a plug that was sooo buggered up I could not remove it with visegrips or any other special tool I attempted to make and use.

I will have to get a pan gasket and drop the pan to get the plug out. :mad:

How or why anyone with any conscience or pride of workmanship could leave the bus in such a condition is beyond me.
All that needed to be done was purchase a new $5.00 plug and be proud of a job well done.

The picture shows the plug.

[lonesome george]

Wow Jim,
That will wreck your day and at least one more. I'm sure you will be pissed about it longer than that.

[PLSNTVLE2]

JC
That looks pretty spiffy under there with the exception of the drain plug. I'm not sure what the advantages of pulling the oil pan will result unless you are replacing it. It is bolted to the motor and makes for a great anchor point.
I would weld a nut or socket to the old one and take it out that way. It's worth a shot....

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Ditto what Terry said.

Welding a nut or bolt head to it is the best solution.

If you break one of the inner "nuts" on the drive axle and the removal tools fail to remove them welding a nut on them is a common way to get them off so doing the same with the drain pan makes sense.

If you do any welding on the coach.....disconnect all the DDEC and transmission computer connectors. The computers must not have any of the connectors attached otherwise you run the risk of damaging them when welding.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

I'm cooling off a little about this and thinking drilling it out might be best.

I don't have a pit and no longer have a welder, anyway welding is better in the open looking down at the job than laying on ones back welding close above your face. There is also little room to strike the arc on the plug without hitting the aluminum pan.

JIM

[LarryB]

Jim, I'm with you--drill it for an 'Eazy Out' and give it a try, you can always try the welding thing if that doesn't work.

[Toy Box]

Drill it. An easy-out usually works miracles.
.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

It's 3/4" pipe thread. (or is it 1/2"?) Whatever it is, it is big. Do they make an easy out for something that big?

FWIW, that's not the best design in my opinion. I have done about 20 oil changes on my coach now and I have never liked removing and reinstalling that plug. First, it is tapered pipe threads. It is a steel plug going into an aluminum pan. It has to be put in tight or it will leak, so when it is removed, despite having a 1 1/16" box end wrench I still have to exert a lot of force to loosen the plug. My guess would be someone cross threaded the plug, and instead of repairing the aluminum threads with heli-coils or the like, they just kept tightening until the oil wouldn't leak, thus creating the problem Jim now has.

When re-installing my plug I am always wavering between getting it in tight, but not so tight it strips the aluminum threads. All other oil pan drain plugs on my vehicles are straight threads with a washer of some type of composite which only requires a reasonable tightening.

I'd be surprised if an easy out works, espcially without damaging the aluminum threads in the pan. I would go so far as to drop the pan so I could carefully remove the plug. Drilling such a large hole for an easy out in a steel plug is not going to be any easier than trying to weld. Screw up those threads and you are going to buy a new oil pan. What's the lead time on oil pans?

[BoaterAl]

The other problem is the oil pan has 30 qts of oil in it. I not sure if it can be removed through the oil filler cap ?
Back in the shop days when stripped drain plugs were lodged in the housing we would drill a hole in the pan to drain, remove the pan and weld up on the bench. If I had this problem and after getting my repair brain working as it's lost in the P. O. mode for a short time. Drill the pan, drain oil, remove oil pan, fix it on the bench. I think this is the best shot to save the oil pan. What's the ball park on a oil pan ?
AL

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

The plug is 3/4 NPT the wrench square was .640 ?

There is a plug in the side of the pan but I don't prefer to use it.

I am thinking the safe way is to drill it out for one of the easy out type tools (there are some other similar configurations).

If that doesn't work take the pan off and do what it takes to get the steel plug out, if the pan gets messed up then the bung hole can have a threaded aluminum bushing heli arced into it and or the pan hole heli-arced closed and another bung hole drilled and tapped into it.

All I needed was one more time for the plug to come out for the Quick Drain Fumato valve install.


JIM

[Orren Zook]

Jim,

I've got a pit you could back over to do this work - also assorted welding equipment and certified welders on staff (MIG,TiG, Stick, and Aluminum). I'll be in South Carolina for a few more days - give me a call early next week if this equipment would help you out on the repair.

[stevet903]

Jim - Here are some more ideas - I can't tell from the picture, but if there is enough meat left to thread one of these on, it will make quick work of it...

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=64897&group_ID=16597&store=&dir=catalog

It has a tapered left hand thread, that cuts in and holds tight, then you just spin it off. Unfortunately, the part left needs to be fairly close to the size of the socket, so it doesn't always work. These also work great for removing those wheel locks that you lost the key to....

You could also try cutting a slot in it with a dremel, die grinder or a hacksaw, then using a flat blade socket on an impact wrench.

You could use a Snap-On pipe plug extractor:

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?tool=all&item_ID=10471&group_ID=1268&store=snapon-store

or one of these screw extractors:

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=10537&group_ID=1262&store=&dir=catalog

I'm always a big fan of applying heat as needed, it always makes it easier.....

Steve

[flyu2there]

Jim,

Should the plug still be in there, heres a quick and easy fix. All manner of tool suppliers carry them but the most bang for the buck is probably at your local Sears. It's a cross between an easy out and an extractor, with a properly sized LH drill bit on one side and a sized easy out on the other. Soak the plug down with some penetrating oil and go for it....it will be out in a couple of minutes. Do believe that Craftsmen call them Deck Outs but, they will do the job quickly.

[Pete]

Jim, I would use the drilling as a last resort. I would be concerned about getting metal filings in the oil pan, and you would not be sure you get them out without removing the pan.
I think John's craftsman idea is the best place to start.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Thanks for all the suggestions all and Orren for the use of your shop and men.

Specific circumstances and characteristics of the job are making the pan removal the only option even if one of the easy out variations are used, you see the distance between the frame cross brace and the plug is 5" and my right angle drill, even with a stubbed down drill bit will not fit.

I have tried shaping the plug stub with a dremell and attaching vise grips and even with force and hammer taps that should have removed an ordinary plug, this one would not budge and the end is now smaller and more distorted than ever.

Yesterday I went to Cleveland and purchased a pan gasket and bolt sealing washers.

Lonsome George and I will tackle the job at his bus garage and manufacturing plant on our way to the rally.

It will be interesting to see what is in the pan as a bonus. I have 235,000 miles in the bus.

Oil can be removed prior to dropping the pan from a plug in the side which is close to the bottom, I hope, it may not be plugging the pan but some internal chamber?

JIM:o

[Woody]

Yesterday, while changing the oil, the tech decided to wire brush the rust off of the pan and coat it with under coast.

Great idea?

After filling we noted a "substantial" leak where he had ground through the pan requiring me to get a loaner and drive home while they find a replacement.

We really didn't need the weekend off.

[Kevin Erion]

Jim, if I can also add that you should replace the oil pan bolts at the same time. They are a special strech bolt and don't like to get reused.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Jim, if I can also add that you should replace the oil pan bolts at the same time. They are a special strech bolt and don't like to get reused.

Thanks Kevin, I will look into that aspect, I wasn't aware of that. The bolts look to be 5/16" or 3/8", don't know just guessing. I asked the service manager at the Freightliner dealer & truck parts store what the torque was. He went into the shop and asked a mechanic and came back with 28 ft lbs, that doesn't sound like it would stretch either one of the fore mentioned bolt sizes. The bolts have a thick rubber compound washer between them and the pan. The pan gasket is actually a special shaped sort of O-ring, if you will and is supposed to be installed without cement or sealer to a clean and oil free block and pan. Your engine is newer than mine and may be different. I know, I was asked do I have the new or old style.
Where did you get the stretch bolt information, if you don't mind telling?


Correct torque spec to read: 24-30 N-M, 18-22 lb-ft. the incorrect figure above comes from the middleman relaying the message and inverting metric and inch values.

JIM

[travelite]

On the S60, everything is metric. I'd definitely get a set of oil pan bolts from DD. I have the manuals and will look up the torque spec when I get back to my garage.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

On the S60, everything is metric. I'd definitely get a set of oil pan bolts from DD. I have the manuals and will look up the torque spec when I get back to my garage.

Looking forward to your reply David.

Thanks, JIM

[James]

He went into the shop and asked a mechanic and came back with 28 ft lbs, that doesn't sound like it would stretch either one of the fore mentioned bolt sizes.

The 1996 Series 60 through 2007 manual lists the torque at 18 to 22 lb ft and they must be tightened in proper sequence.

[Kevin Erion]

Jim, I also put just a small amout of silicone engine sealer at the front and back corners where the block meets the front and back covers.

[paulschwan]

Steel drill chips in an oil pan is not a good thing. Use a mig welder and weld the largest hex nut you can to that plug.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Some views of the fix.

[hhoppe]

Jim: Thinking off the top of my head. We always had trouble with SS bolts and nuts galling and not wanting to be removed. The answer was use brass nuts on the SS bolts to prevent galling. Maybe using a brass or bronze pipe plug into the aluminum threads on the pan would better facilitate future removals. Just a thought.