North Carolina Rules?

[Ray Davis]

I have a friend who lives in NC who has just purchased a motorhome (not a bus, sorry). He was telling me that any vehicle over 26K in weight, or combined with a tow vehicle is over 26K requires a Class A license and test in NC.

Can anyone confirm this? I know in CA if you read one set of regs, it has similar 26K restrictions, however RV's (house cars), are specifically exempt. I would have thought this to be similiar in NC, but I thought I would ask the brain trust here.

Ray

[Jon Wehrenberg]

It would appear a class A non-commercial is required.

http://changingears.com/rv-sec-state-rv-license.shtml

[jack14r]

He is right,the limit is 26,000 but the amazing law passed last year allows anyone driving a vehicle with a living quarters and involved in motorsports can now be up to 90 feet in length.I have a Renegade Volvo tractor with a 53 foot trailer and it is 81 feet long and now it is legal.

[Ray Davis]

Interesting website Jon. In looking it seems that several states would require class B or A licenses (generally non-commercial) for our vehicles. It makes me wonder how many of our group might have potential problems.

I would have assumed that like CA, that many states would have special provisions for RV's, but from I'm reading that's not the general case.

[gmcbuffalo]

A potential revenue source for all states, in this climate.

[Loc]

Ray,

Texas requires a non-commerical Class B license for a motorhome over 26,000 GVWR. When I discovered this after two years of driving my first bus, I contacted the Texas Department of Public Safety to see what was involved. I contacted two offices and neither one knew about the requirement. One told me that I didn't need a special license even though I read them the statute. I went to the second office and spent 25 minutes with a state trooper who finally agreed with the need for the license. He said he had never given such an exam (written and driving) but agreed that it was required. I am not sure it would make much difference except in the event that you are in an accident and the trial attorney could claim that you were driving a vehicle that you were not licensed to drive. I also wonder about insurance coverage in such an event. If you go to the RVNET website there are multiple discussion topics on this. The great thing is that with my motorcycle endorsement I have a BM license. Only in Texas.

Loc

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I wonder if a lot of the licensing requirements date back to when the uniform CDL was required in the very early 90's.

Regardless of when or how the states decided to impose requirements for licenses to drive coaches such as ours, is there really anyone out there in POG land that does not agree that they are a good thing? We have all seen people that shouldn't have a bicycle license yet they are aiming 50,000 pounds of bus down the highway.

[Ray Davis]

I did take the time to get a Class B non-commercial here. It wasn't really all that bad, however driving test was almost 90 minutes as I remember. Ken Zittrer rode with me to make my Class-B learners permit legal.

I mainly got it for the legal ramifications. I can just see if involved with an accident some lawyer thinking about someone owning "a million dollar bus", and not having a proper DL.

[pwf252]

Loc,
I had the same experience here in Dallas when I went to the DMV to inquire about the non-commercial CDL. Having researched it beforehand I was fully aware of what the statute stated. The folks at DMV gave me the deer in the headlights thing, and then after some convincing by me handed me the Texas Commercial Motor Vehicle Drivers Handbook and informed me that testing would be as discribed in it. I was confused by your remarks. Did you have to take that same test ? Or are you saying that you somehow received the endorsement thru getting a motorcycle license???????

[Woody]

FWIW the Commercial Vehicle Safety Act passed by Congress on 10-26-86 states that all states must require a special license for any vehicle in excess of 26,001# so this can be found in all state ordinances.

In Maine the second exception is for RV's for personal use.

I wonder if Texas and other states also have exceptions buried in the fine print.

[grross]

Florida excludes RV

[Jon Wehrenberg]

TN does not require anything more than a normal driver's license. NY only requires an R endorsement, which in the early 90's only required a driver license applicant to ask for it. There was no test that I was aware of.

I agree with Ray however in that in the event of an accident, even if no special licensing is required, I can picture a lawyer representing whoever is suing you making that a big issue. In fact if I was a lawyer going after a Prevost owner I would use the lack of a license as proof the driver does not possess the skills to drive one. But I wouldn't stop there. I would find out of the bus exceeded any of the axle or gross weight limits, and then I would go after the maintenance history. Every one of us ignores the one year or 100,000 miles (which ever comes first) written in the Prevost manual for brake chambers. My point is we don't need to give a lawyer who is suing us ammunition. With a little effort a sharp lawyer can did up a bunch.

[michaeldterry]

I wonder if a lot of the licensing requirements date back to when the uniform CDL was required in the very early 90's.

Regardless of when or how the states decided to impose requirements for licenses to drive coaches such as ours, is there really anyone out there in POG land that does not agree that they are a good thing? We have all seen people that shouldn't have a bicycle license yet they are aiming 50,000 pounds of bus down the highway.

I agree with Jon on this issue. I feel that CDL certification for drivers of vehicles the size/weight of our Prevosts is a good thing! I've held a commercial Class B CDL (with passenger endorsement, no less) since 1986 and have actually been glad to have the knowledge required to pass the test on numerous occasions over the years!

[Loc]

Patrick,

I had to take the Commercial Driver's written exam for a Class B and then a driving test with a trooper in the bus. The driving test was pretty funny. In the book it says not to talk to the trooper other than to acknowledge instructions. As soon as we were in the bus the trooper started asking a bunch of question about the bus and what we use it for and where we had been. The trooper never stopped asking questions and talking until we were finished. He then asked if he could take a look around the bus. I asked him if I passed and when he said yes I told him to look as much as he wanted. Another trooper came out and also wanted a tour.

[gmcbuffalo]

Jon
That is incredible that there would be a "one year or 100,000 miles (which ever comes first) written in the Prevost manual for brake chambers" on any part. Those are worlds apart in reality. Makes me wonder considering the door latch problems and many others seen on this site if we didn't really bite the big one on this "million mile bus concept".
Greg

[Jon Wehrenberg]

As a generic purchased item, brake chambers service requirements are unlikely to be dictated by Prevost, and are more likely to be the recommendation of the manufacturer of the chambers or the braking system. Prevost just includes that in their maintenance manual to protect their interests as well as those of their customers. I will be the first to admit I think that is overly cautious and I change mine at the five year point regardless of condition or miles.

Keep in mind our coaches cannot be compared to the commercial vehicles that typically use these parts. The failure of a brake chamber diaphragm in my opinion is primarily due to the rubber aging on our coaches, where on a commercial vehicle, such as a city bus or local delivery truck which makes hundreds if not thousands of stops per day I suspect the chamber fails due to wear on the diaphragm where it pushes the big round end of the rod.

But let's forget stuff like timely replacement of safety items, and just consider pre-trip inspection. How many do a pre-trip inspection that meets the DOT standards? If asked that by an attorney it is likely we could lie and say we do, and then he would follow up with a detailed question about describe exactly what your inspection consisted of and the sequence in which you did it? Because of the size and weight of the bus even though it is treated like a personal vehicle such as your car for licensing purposes it doesn't mean a jury would excuse us from proving we have the skills necessary to drive a bus which is not exactly like the family Kia.

My greatest fear is the yahoo that passes me, then pulls back in my lane too close, and for whatever reason hits his brakes hard. I have had that happen often enough to know it is a real world possibility, and I also know even though I would be blameless I would have no defense against the lawsuit sure to follow my slamming into the idiot. I will go through periods when I look on the internet for a camera system that shows my last 15 or 30 minutes of driving so I would at least have some proof when involved in an accident because the other driver had no respect for the inability of a 45,000 pound bus to stop or turn like the average car.

[Gary Carmichael]

Ray My Liberty is registered in N.C. for two reasons first the 1500 dollar max tax, second if the bus is not for hire and driven by the owner the regular class C license is all that is required, that is what I have been told by Patrolmen I have talked to. Also other states will honor N.C. requirements. On tax statements in N.C. they are called housecars. For that reason I still have a class C Gary

[Will Garner]

Ray,

I've lived in NC for almost 30 years. When I bought my Prevost I had some commercial aspirations in mind. The local DMV told me, after checking with Raleigh DMV Headquarters that unless the coach seated 16+ persons OR was pulling a trailer rated at 10,000+ GVW that the highest level license DMV could issue was a classified B. That license required both a written, well a computer touch screen test, and a road test. I took the written test, where a minimum score was 40 correct out fof a possible 50 questions. There were no questions about buses, a few questions about tractor trailer situations, and mostly questions on signs, markings, and stuff found on a written test for Class C licenses (our regular one). I was going greta guns on the written, each correct question dinged a little bell tone. Of course I was not keeping track of the dings so I checked after the 30th question. Wow, I had all 30 correct. Unfortunately at that point I let down my guard of how the DMV words the questions in a misleading manner and promptly went 10 for the last 20. Who knows what "Over tracking" is? That when the wheels on the trailer track inside the wheels of the tractor pulling it. Who knew, not me. Anuway now for the road test. The lady examiner scheduled it for the next day, so it took two days to complete the process. When I got to the DMV office the examiner came out to the coach and told me she had never given a road test in one of these so it might take a little longer than normal. I asked how much longer and was told maybe to Myrtle Beach and back. Was I just harrassed? Who cared, what an excuse for the wife to tell her, "Hon, the lady examiner said I had to take her to Myrtle Beach before she could pass me." Oh yeah that was going to go over like a lead balloon! I got my Classified B, which is one catagory down from a CDL, and we have all lived happily ever after.

Now having said that, I had the experience last summer of a little NE Princess pulling over in front of me as we left a stopped condition outside a highway work zone where blasting of rock was being done. Fortunately, I had the camera out taking photos of the work zone while stopped. I handed it to Carole as traffic started moving. I felt the bump and Carole started telling me that car hit the bus. All I said was take pictures. The pictures I had taken clearly showed the line up of vehicles to my front and the NE Princess'es little Accord was not one of them. She initially was not going to stop but saw Carole taking photos and decided stopping was better than a charge for leaving the scene. NJ Trooper did not ask any questions of me regarding license. I only wish I had worn my NC State Troopers baseball cap. I think it could have made it even a friendlier encounter with NJ.

So as Warner Brothers cartoons used to end, Thats all folks!

[pwf252]

After Loc shot down my hopes of receiving a Class B CDL endorsement by taking a Texas motorcycle test (ya thinking about it now it was a thoroughly stupid thought but I blame Loc for leading me into it due to the vagueness of his post) I decided to crack open the Texas Commercial Motor Vehicle Drivers Handbook and start studying from front to back. Page 1 Prologue, who needs a Commercial Drivers License? Section 2 Who is exempt from required CDL? I quote - Persons operating the following vehicles are exempt from a CDL. paragragh, #4 - A recreational vehicle that is driven for personal use. Yippee!!! After alot of looking into the statutes this is the first time I have seen this statement and there it is page 1 of the handbook. Quess my research was a bit lacking. Anyway its good to know we aren't running the risk of a ticket here in Texas. I do however agree with the comment that taking and passing the test to receive a CDL endorsement is in the best interest of everyone driving one of these buses, so reluctantly I intend to continue studying the handbook and hopefully successfully taking and passing my CDL test.