New member

[Donnie_M]

Hello! My name is Donnie Myers and I am excited to finally post on POG! I have heard my name was being thrown around here and there so I decided to read for myself...lol I have a little technical experience on those there Prevosts buses and don't mind sharing.....

[ajducote]

Welcome aboard. We have had some very nice things said about you on this site. Glad to see you joined us.

[Donnie_M]

Thank you.

[HarborBus]

Welcome, We can use all the "go to guys" we can get.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Welcome Donnie, nice to have you join us here.


JIM:)

[sawdust_128]

Welcome aboard Donnie!!

[GSwaim]

Welcome Donnie,

I'm new to Prevost but not RVing. I too have some expertise in electronics and mechanics but not Prevost in particular. I look forward to sharing ideas with you.

[Donnie_M]

Thanks every one. This will be interesting and fun!

[Donnie_M]

Well, I am far from an "expert"..lol I started working on Prevosts in 1984 (I was 16yo) for Harvey Mitchell on Nebraska Ave. in Tampa, Fl. I really don't know how much more I can say as to keep within the "advertising" rules of the site. Years ago I didn't care about "the rules"...lol Maybe Jim will chime in later and let me know what I can say and be safe....

[Richard Barnes]

Well, I am far from an "expert"..lol I started working on Prevosts in 1984 (I was 16yo) for Harvey Mitchell on Nebraska Ave. in Tampa, Fl. I really don't know how much more I can say as to keep within the "advertising" rules of the site. Years ago I didn't care about "the rules"...lol Maybe Jim will chime in later and let me know what I can say and be safe....

Well by my calculations that will make you 42. You should know there are a few here, who will remain nameless, that have socks 42 years old! From one of the old guys, welcome aboard. I'll keep you busy with questions.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Donnie, I can speak to the advertising issue.

POG is very fortunate to have a group of sponsors whose monthly fees help keep this site functioning, who participate in our rallies, and who contribute technical knowledge to the group. As sponsors they not only advertise on our site, some are active in posting and sharing their expertise. We in POG do not hesitate to recommend or use the services of our sponsors.

Because they pay to participate it is unfair to them to allow a POG member whose only cost is the annual dues to "advertise" on the forum.

If you have a business and you specialize in Prevost conversions you are welcome as a member and we would love your participation. You can post your advice, opinions, and suggestions, or just get involved in the horseplay. But it is not fair to encourage members to bring their coaches to your for you to work on or repair for compensation unless you are a sponsor.

I don't have any financial interest in POG, I am not in the bus repair business, but I enjoy working on my bus and assisting others. But for me it is a hobby. If it is more than a hobby for you then I think it is completely appropriate for you to see if you are satisfied as strictly a POG member, or if you want to go beyond that and become a sponsor which offers you the opportunity to have advertising, to solicit business and enables you to interact with all the members of POG as both a member and a business seeking POG members as customers.

I have no idea what Jim will say, but I presume it will be similar to what I just said.

[Donnie_M]

Donnie, I can speak to the advertising issue.

POG is very fortunate to have a group of sponsors whose monthly fees help keep this site functioning, who participate in our rallies, and who contribute technical knowledge to the group. As sponsors they not only advertise on our site, some are active in posting and sharing their expertise. We in POG do not hesitate to recommend or use the services of our sponsors.

Because they pay to participate it is unfair to them to allow a POG member whose only cost is the annual dues to "advertise" on the forum.

If you have a business and you specialize in Prevost conversions you are welcome as a member and we would love your participation. You can post your advice, opinions, and suggestions, or just get involved in the horseplay. But it is not fair to encourage members to bring their coaches to your for you to work on or repair for compensation unless you are a sponsor.

I don't have any financial interest in POG, I am not in the bus repair business, but I enjoy working on my bus and assisting others. But for me it is a hobby. If it is more than a hobby for you then I think it is completely appropriate for you to see if you are satisfied as strictly a POG member, or if you want to go beyond that and become a sponsor which offers you the opportunity to have advertising, to solicit business and enables you to interact with all the members of POG as both a member and a business seeking POG members as customers.

I have no idea what Jim will say, but I presume it will be similar to what I just said.I really appreciate your input. I am fully aware of the rules as Jim and I have been in contact. The only question was ....how to answer a question asked by a member and stay within the site rules. I did not come here to "advertise". I was asked by several members to come here to assist folks with their issues. I do not advertise at all.

[kenrobertson]

Donnie - What took you so long......This group needs you, and you need this group. Very simple solution......become a sponsor.

Ken

[Donnie_M]

Pass the hat around Ken and Git-R-Done! Ha Ha.. Heck I don't even have a logo..lol

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Donnie,

Again offering an opinion which may not be consistent with Jim's policy, if you are asked a question don't be shy answering it it you know the answer. That saves those of us that make up answers a lot of time. You are likely to even offer the correct answers, a standard we do not necessarily subscribe to. Where the line gets crossed is when you make it clear you are a business, or a member makes it clear you are a business and you or the member start to solicit customers. We have sponsors that liikely compete with you and if they are paying to be sponsors, and you are siphoning business from them off this site it becomes an issue.

I don't believe any of our sponsors fear competition, but what they may fear is competing on an unlevel playing field in which they pay to participate in POG as sponsors, and someone who pays far less than they do is allowed to compete against them for customers.

As to Michael's concern about stirring the pot, I don't think he went far enough. In addition to a full and complete resume, we expect newcomers to also provide copies of the last three year's tax returns, plus we all expect the normal newcomer's gift. The last new POG member provided all of us with 56" Snap On tool chests. I'm looking forward to your gift.

Welcome aboard.

[Donnie_M]

Just so you and the "sponsors" know, I had no idea what was on here and who wrote it until yesterday after I paid 100.00 so I could read what people wrote about me. I have had several people tell me they saw my name on this website and curiosity got to me...lol The reason I feel comfortable about coming on here is I have my own customer base so I'm not looking to "pull" anyone from here. Rick May, Ken, and several others can vouch for that. That's also why I am hesitant about providing the diagram requested by another member in another thread. I like to play by the rules:D

[garyde]

Welcome to POG Donnie. Its always interesting here. It sounds like youve already got the hang of it .

[Will Garner]

Donnie,

Welcome aboard POG. Sinch up your seat belt you are beginning the ride of a lifetime. I, like Richard, did the math and it seems you are only 42 years of age. Notice I did not use the "O" word. No not O'bama! It is nice to see a new member that probably still has hair and their hair has not yet started to turn silver.

One thing to watch out for here is sheep. Yep that's right, sheep. Of course right now the cheif sheep boy is tied up with a little oil spill in the Gulf. But you can count on him coming back strong. Don't open any emails you may receive from an ACME PRODUCTS! You may get more than a virus!

[Donnie_M]

Well thanks Will! Unfortunately all these years of type "A" personalities is releasing the silver..lol Of course nowadays I just keep my hair almost shaved. Thanks for the heads up, I'm pretty good with sheep...Did I just say that.....

[Prevost.Rick]

hey donnie this is rick m glad to see you here ,remember that day you showed up at mitchells, have had alot of adventures together since,hope more in the future at kerville??

[scott13]

Donnie,

Again offering an opinion which may not be consistent with Jim's policy, if you are asked a question don't be shy answering it it you know the answer. That saves those of us that make up answers a lot of time. You are likely to even offer the correct answers, a standard we do not necessarily subscribe to. Where the line gets crossed is when you make it clear you are a business, or a member makes it clear you are a business and you or the member start to solicit customers. We have sponsors that liikely compete with you and if they are paying to be sponsors, and you are siphoning business from them off this site it becomes an issue.

I don't believe any of our sponsors fear competition, but what they may fear is competing on an unlevel playing field in which they pay to participate in POG as sponsors, and someone who pays far less than they do is allowed to compete against them for customers.

As to Michael's concern about stirring the pot, I don't think he went far enough. In addition to a full and complete resume, we expect newcomers to also provide copies of the last three year's tax returns, plus we all expect the normal newcomer's gift. The last new POG member provided all of us with 56" Snap On tool chests. I'm looking forward to your gift.

Welcome aboard.

Donnie has a real nice toolbox but I don't think he'll giving it away. Glad to see you here Donnie.

[Donnie_M]

hey donnie this is rick m glad to see you here ,remember that day you showed up at mitchells, have had alot of adventures together since,hope more in the future at kerville??

Which day!! The one that I actually made book time changing out an a/c compressor on a forward controls Blue Bird from the top side...all the time you guys were luaghing at me because I didn't know the bumper came off and the radiator swung out and gives you direct and easy access to the a/c compressor? Or the day I was doing a "make ready" on a 1980 something Liberty and flooded the WHOLE shop after pushing that chrome button on the dash...that was not marked "black dump"??? I know how we can have many more adventures!!!!!

[Donnie_M]

Donnie has a real nice toolbox but I don't think he'll giving it away. Glad to see you here Donnie.

Thanks Scott! Your right, I think I'll be keeping it...lol

[johnklopp]

Greetings,

Guess I’m the new kid on the block this week or perhaps I’m just another old bald guy. My wife and I recently purchased a new to us 97 Prevost Royale Conversion # 199. We found it in Texas and drove it back to the Republic of California without a single issue.

We are intrigued by the adventures that lie ahead and have been reading most anything we can get our hands on. We can’t seem to find much information on how many Prevost conversions were made by the various converters. Just how many are in this group?

My only complaint with the coach is the need to run the generator to operate the roof air in the bedroom when stopped for a nap. I know it’s customary to make some changes to make the coach your own. My project will be to design and build a 28 volt air conditioner to operate directly from the house batteries.

Since my present occupation is as a thermal management systems engineer designing cooling systems for military vehicles and aircraft, I see little problem making it happen.

I have also read some posts regarding the addition of a pressure washer with a deionizing filter for rinsing the coach, that’s next on the list.
Look forward to meeting some of you at future events.

John

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Welcome to the group John, check out the posts on the Kerrville, TX rally next month, try to make it!

JIM:)

[HarborBus]

Welcome John, sound like a pretty ambitious project. As Jim suggested we'd love to have you come to the rally in October.

[jack14r]

Welcome John,It sounds like that you could design an AC unit but wouldn't it be easier to add an inverter for the rear AC unit or maybe just rewire the existing inverter to run the rear AC.I don't think that anyone has come up with a verified number of Prevost that have been converted.I think that the major converters would be easy to figure but the small ones that no longer exist might be more difficult.

[johnklopp]

You are correct in that it would be easier to add an inverter. The reason for a DC air conditioning unit is that the brushless DC compressor and fans will be variable speed and use only the required power to match the load. Inverters work well but have an overhead electrical consumption used to make the conversion from AC to DC. Typical loss is in the neighborhood of 10-15% of the power consumed. An air conditioning unit operating at part load would have oversized heat exchangers and a resulting reduction of compressor power that could reduce the power draw for air conditioning by as much as 25% at moderate loads. Engineers with time on their hand are like kids in a candy store.

[jack14r]

I like projects that accomplish a goal,that sounds great,keep us informed.

[garyde]

Hi John and welcome to POG. What part of California? We have many members thru-out California. Anything I can do to help, let me know.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

John,

Welcome to the asylum. It is already clear we will be asking you questions, but unlike the standards we subscribe to, you will have to provide correct answers.

Actually you have likely noticed this site has a considerable body of collected knowledge and while we may not always be correct we try.

One question......since energy is energy is energy have you considered your DC powered AC unit will put a bigger load on the batteries and as such may compromise your use of shore power or battery power when not connected? I like to think I am creative and from time to time I even believe I can improve the wheel, but the reality is these coaches have evolved over time and the converters have really taken all the factors into consideration and come up with the best compromise. I'm not saying our coaches cannot be improved, it is just that there are many good reasons why they are designed and built as they are. Your roof airs for example are cheap, readily available, and the generator running them literally sips fuel.

[Jeff Bayley]

John-

I have the same year Royale as you and build number 193 or 7 units off from your you unit number 199.

I suspect even with the added efficiency of your design it is unlikely the batteries will make it through the night ; assuming that is one of the goals. You could use a smaller generator than what I proposed in the rest of this message that I'm PM'ing you if all you wanted to do was keep the batteries up but you’ll have a fuel tank capacity shortage unless you put a feeder tank (Marine style) Easier to just use the aux generator by that time but I'm getting ahead of myself. I presume that your goal is to A/C the bedroom while boon docking w/o use of the big on board generator. With my method you can run any one high draw appliance (water heater, washer or dryer, stove, etc) at one time and pick between zones of the A/C’s rather than being restricted to the one DC air conditioner in the bedroom.

RV parks are not my bag for various reasons. Cost is not one of them but it is cheaper for us and our particular style of traveling. We would rather pick our own view and boon dock. We have never made a reservation at an RV park in 8 to 9 years since I bought my first RV (this coach).

I did a LOT of trial and error before coming up with this solution which I am very happy with and is working great (for me and my needs). I have a large collection of different size generators to show for it but I've got other uses for them also. I have other buses for one thing including a second Prevost. I wonder why I'm broke?

While you and I both wait for your DC air (sounds up my alley) here is what will get you by in the meantime if you have your reasons (as I do) for not wanting to run the generator. My reason is paranoid of fire since the turbo burned up on my one time and almost caught fire but I was lucky and caught it before it flashed from all the oil spitting on the hot engine. So I can’t get a sound nights sleep with the onboard generator on. With the portable one OUTSIDE my bus I sleep like a baby. You can use a braided flexable lock to secure the generator to the front bumper.

I use the onboard diesel generator during the day usually and just use the portable one to make it through the night. As Jon brought out, our on board big ones are very fuel efficient use the same amount of fuel as the small gas ones so there is no savings in fuel nor is that my goal. My purpose is to boon dock, have one rear A/C (or heater if you not using the Aqua Hot), and not to worry about waking up to the bus on fire. If we are at some event (like the Oshkosh are show) and want to come back to a cool bus then I will leave that portable unit on and enjoy myself much better while away from the coach not having to worry about an unattended onboard generator catching fire.

I’ll PM you the long detail (did he just suggest this one was NOT long ?) on which generators are ideal for this considering price, fuel tank capacity, compact and low noise. If anyone else wants a copy of what I’m sending John, email me (I drift in and out of POG) and I’ll gladly send it to you. Too many others are disinterested in this and my messages are long and detailed. This is my short posting ! As I said I drift in and out in spurts and my poor fellow POG'ers are subjected to this (are you still reading guys ?).

Jack wrote: “Welcome John, It sounds like that you could design an AC unit but wouldn't it be easier to add an inverter for the rear AC unit or maybe just rewire the existing inverter to run the rear AC ?”

>>>> I rewired my House side panel and my Shore Power / Generator side panel with a toggle switch to do just that and I haven’t had to let the smoke out yet. I can run my roof A/C’s while driving if I wish to and it works good but forget about running an A/C off the batteries for more than 10 minutes before it kills the batteries. I have a 275 amp alternator that puts back what the A/C’s are taking for the roof airs when I’m truck’in.

I’m PM’ing you the rest. Sorry for the thread creep Donnie but John started it. I’m looking up where your located to stop at your place and get some free help with other issues. Just kidding about the free part. Wait, you don't have a profile. I think your in Florida maybe. Let me know so I can come pester you.

[johnklopp]

Wow, its going to be great getting to know you guys and collecting some of your compiled Prevost knowledge. Guess I started out wrong and took this thread in a different direction and I apologies for that. I should have started a new thread but I'm learning so I will try not to do it again.

I agree that the power management on the coaches is very well set up and is probably similar between converters. The thing that has changed is the availability of dependable brusshless DC motors. The best example would be to look at a hybred car. The Prius has a DC drive train and air conditioning compressor allowing the engine to be switched off some of the time. One of the advantages of a brusshless DC motor is that it can be easily speed controlled to match the load rather than turn of and on. My occupation has me designing DC air conditioning systems for the military to allow our troops to have a silent watch with low noise and heat signature to avoid detection by the bad guys. Almost every US military vehicle has DC powered air conditioning systems cooling the electronic loads.

It would be difficult to say that this is a cost effective approach at this time but is is more efficient. Brusshless DC motors are clearly in the future for many mobile applications. As an engineer, life is an equation and one of the factors is entertainment. This is entertaining for me.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Even if you were able to double the efficiency of a 13,000 BTU AC unit and reduce the draw on batteries the available number of amp hours in a typical coach may increase your ability to run the AC from 1 1/2 to 3 hours at which point the batteries need to be charged.

Almost everybody (not an exageration) seems reluctant to run the generator. Those things will give tens of thousands of hours of service. It is not uncommon to see them exceed 30,000 hours of life. Under the load of the average coach with 2 AC units on all the time the fuel used is likely to be less than .5 GPH. We drag that generator around with us where ever we go and none of us really works one as hard or often as we should to get the life out of them. They are oversized such that we cannot overload one.

If you run AC units from DC power, you still have to replace the power consumed. If that means running the bus engine or a generator you still use fuel. If you have shore power available for recharging, why not just use shore power for the AC?

I am not being critical of your aspirations, but would like to engage in a serious discussion about the merits of your concept. One weakness right now with most conversions is the house AC units do need the generator to be running unless the inverters are set up to run the AC units. In that case power is used to run the AC units and the batteries may need a charge when connected to shore power. If that is the case that is shore power not available for something else. A low current draw DC unit will be an idea embraced by the entire RV industry, but it truly needs to be a low current draw. AC or DC energy is energy is energy.

Don't worry about thread creep. This site is known for the inmates of this asylum being incapable of keeping on point. It's kind of like we get ideas and they just fall out of our brain onto the post.

[Will Garner]

Jon,

As you know the very day I needed my generator that I have been dragging around (and using) for the past four years it quit on me. Also as you know it turned out not to be a problem with the generator but with the alternator used to charge the generator battery and supply sufficient electrical power to keep the diesel running. Funny, I had the generator serviced before leaving on the Maine trip so I was confident I would not have a problem. I run the generator when in my electricity-less but free storage building doing projects. Yes the building has plenty of ventilation - you can see holes in every wall and some in the roof. I also leave the doors open. Works for me. On my coach what I found was the commutator surface had been compromised, read destroyed, by one of the two brushes and in the process that brush broke off when it made it to the harder base metal. The good news was we found the source of the problem. The alternator was not putting out enough charge to keep the battery up and while at lunch it quit. The bad news was the alternator on my generator is no longer in production. There was one with 65 amp output vs. my puny little 37 amp unit but it could not be delivered to the Rockland ME NAPA store for three days. Big schedule impact. NAPA did hook me up with a local generator/starter/alternator rebuild shop. I dropped the alternator off at 4:45 PM and it was ready by 10:00 AM the next day. The coach generator is now very happy. Now if only it would fail when it was being run in the garage!

Exercise is the answer to living a long life.