OTR Compressor Oil

[sawdust_128]

Has anyone found sources for the 134a compatible oil listed in the table below? My preference is a national chain I might use to find this locally. But, so far I haven't found it and I need some.

6665


Polyolester (POE) P/N 07--00317--00PK6 as recommended for Carrier Transicold Model 05G Twin Port compressors

Thanks in advance.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I'm really curious.....What is the reason you need oil? Has the system been compromised and since it is open you are changing the oil?

[truk4u]

Dustman,

NAPA sells Ester for 7.99 a quart. They don't seem to carry the PAG oil.

http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail.aspx?R=TEM801650_0000999999

[sawdust_128]

Tuk: That NAPA Ester has a 100 degree viscosity of 100. Everything in the spec has a 100 degree viscosity of 68. I don't know how much that matters as they all seem to get to around 10 when warmed up, but until I am desperate I will keep looking for the spec. But, thanks for the effort and I may give Napa a call to see if the have other "special order" product not listed in their on-line catalogue. I nearly went there yesterday but decided to do a little more on-line work first. I never found any reference to that product so good catch there.

Jon: The Carrier Transicold Model 05G Twin Port compressor has a known annual crankcase oil loss of 3.5 oz. at the shaft seal resevoir. The shop manual says that this resevoir needs to be unmounted and vacated once per year. It is also clearly stated in the manual that pressure in the crankcase is managed by a series of relief valves and check valves to "minimize leaking". So annual oil loss is expected and those sightglasses should be a part of routine inspection


I have found a couple of things:

1. the annual loss has not been replaced and I am at the bottom of the sight glass when it should be visible at 1/3 -1/2 the glass,

2. that I may need to replace the sightglass gasket of the inboard sightport next to the filler plug. As part of this I will change the crankcase oil. It may just need to be retightened to the correct torque spec.

However, even if I hadn't found the leak at the sightglass, I would have dumped and replace the crankcase lubricant anyway, as I have no way of knowing when and if it has ever been changed. Also, there is just to much evidence to suggest that somewhere in the history of the coach, someone had that compressor out and had some serious work done on it. I have always held a suspicion regarding that compressor. I finally studied it enough to figure out what was bothering me.

[aggies09]

I am curious as to if there are any other poggers who have serviced the OTR Air in this manner? I was operating under the assumption that it was a closed system and basically needed no attention unless signs appeared that warranted additional attention. Are there other components of the OTR Air that I need to be looking at routinely?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Ed is correct in that oil is lost around the seal behind the clutch, but Tony is right in the sense it is viewed as a closed system.

If oil escapes at the seal it is a given that freon is also escaping which creates an issue to be addressed. First, the seal has a service life of XXX months. I have no clue what that might be, but it is a service item. My view of the seal reaching the end of the service life is when the oil escaping from it leaves a notable wet spot behind the clutch as opposed to a dirty relatively dry oil spot.

The compressor can be pumped down, and the valves on each side of the compressor shut so service such as oil replenishment or seal replacement can be performed. This is typically done by a refrigeration guru skilled with the Carrier compressor. That guru should be able to change oil and replace the seal, vacuum the compressor and top off the system charge as required in 2 or maybe 3 hours.

Kudos to Ed for monitoring his oil level, which I believe may be a more accurate way of scheduling oil change and seal replacement.

If I were going to add or change oil I would definitely replace the shaft seal behind the clutch.

[sawdust_128]

Tony: Make sure you have the same compressor. I read a lot of the threads on compressors and many were about some other compressor. I am talking about the Carrier Transicold Model 05G Twin Port compressor. If you have the time or care to take the time, go to the carrier site and download the workshop manual pdf (document
62--11052 Rev C) and the parts list pdf (document 62--11053 Rev D Change 1009). Now the best I can determine is that these are the revised editions of what you access when you go to the service manuls in CATBASE (i.e., catbase is correct based on the time your unit was put in your coach but these cited manuals are updated).

Jon: I will run your suggestions past the Carrier folks on Monday. I was just informed by one of my neighbors that a Carrier Service Center exist not but about 8 miles from my home and is about next door to Fleetpride. If they can't help. there is a ThermoKing across the street from them. Just a followup, why wouldn't you service the oil strainer and unless the seal was a problem, leave it alone? I ask because I figure that with what I know now, examination of these sightglasses and general compressor condition is now a specific part of my pre-trip inspection.
-------------------------------
If anyone wants the manuals, I will be happy to email what I have been looking at. Send me an email dstudioc@nc.rr.com (dstudioc@nc.rr.com) with "COMPRESSOR MANUALS" in the subject line and I will reply with the attachments.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

If you look behind the compressor clutch on all OTR systems you can expect to see a dirty, black mess of what was refrigerant oil combined with whatever dirt and dust is kicked up into that area while we drive. It occurs because the seal will leak over time.

The seal will never get better and at some point its leak will get sufficiently large to make that more or less dry oil spot wet. The only way oil gets there is from the pressure of the freon in the system pushing it there. So it follows in my mind that if you leak enough oil to drop the amount in the compressor below the sight glass, it is likely you also have less freon than you would ideally have. Since the system is sealed against outside contaminants due to the positive pressure in the system even while at rest, then the oil is likely not contaminated in the sense our crankcase oil gets contaminated.

Since changing the oil is recommended I would abide by the recommendations, and since doing that involves all the steps except the seal change, I would just go ahead and get the seal replaced at the same time. Before I did anything however I would have the techs check for the performance of the cylinders (I think there are actually six). They can do that by feeling the heads and if a portion is not as cool as the other portions of the head it suggests there may be an issue with one of the cylinders and that can be as simple as needing a new leaf valve, or it may be scoring of the cylinder walls. If that is the case I would have a head pulled and let them decide if a leaf valve kit is appropriate, or if there is cylinder damage if a new compressor shoud be installed.

Having said all that, if the oil level is fine and the OTR is blowing cold I do nothing. But as you have determined the oil level has dropped so you no longer have the luxury of doing nothing, so at that point the experts should be given the opportunity to do a health check on the compressor and the system and make recommendations.

If I remember a seal was in the $80 range and it was a 1.5 hour job more or less with a little more time thrown in to handle other details. But I would not stop at the seal or the oil because this presents an opportunity to give the whole compressor a health check.

I did nothing to our first coach OTR compressor and it finally needed a seal after 17 years of age. Upon checking it however it was determined a couple of cylinders had failed and further checking revealed scoring, perhaps due to a failure of the leaf valves. The word of caution I would give is if the compressor is replaced make certain the unloader valves are in place and functioning because the geniuses that replaced my compressor left them off and the result was a bus fire.

[Will Garner]

Ed,

3421 Integrity Drive
Garner, NC 27529
(919) 661-1186

There is also a Gregory Poole on INtegrity Drive. They are servicing my OTR Galley and Bedroom as Carrier told me they are not working on buses anymore.

Steve Atwater
Gregory Poole
3201 Integrity Drive
Garner, NC 27529
(919) 755-7010

Use I-40 to Jones Sausage Road. Go east to the first intersection, or the second intersection on the left. It is a loop road and would not want you to leave your "rear" exposed to traffic while waiting to take a left turn.

[sawdust_128]

Thanks for that Will!! I-40 & Jones Sausage Rd is apparently where it is all going on, Fleet Pride, Carrier, ThermoKing, Gregory Poole,

[Jasaholmes]

We are on I 5 in a rest stop south of Harris Ranch, waiting for a tow truck. OTR compressor
went BANG, black smoke everywhere. Luckely we were just getting ready
To pull out. Good Sam has a arranged theTow, ( waiting now 4 hours) taking it to Fresno. Any suggestions?

[garyde]

Hi Jim. Here are a couple of places in Fresno area.

http://www.evolutioncustomcoach.com/

http://local.yahoo.com/info-21272229-america-s-bus-service-repair-fresno

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Just curious. If the OTR compressor went bang why is a tow truck required? On that vintage3 coach with OTR the belt tensioning cylinders (the brass ones) can be released by turning the knob at the top center of the engine bay, the compressor belt removed and now the compressor is out of service and the bus can be driven.

I would rather eat bees than see my coach towed.

[Jasaholmes]

Hi Jon
Problem is, I see a bunch of stuff when I look back there. Tow driver did just that, but not until on the truck.
Brought us to Fresno, dropped at a storage lot at 0437hours. Now waiting for him to take it to Valley Detroit
Desiel.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jim,

On this site is contact information for members. But also this is a good place to post stuff if you need questions answered right away. Usually folks are pretty quick at answering. If you call someone just tell them you are a POG member. They likely will not ask for the secret handshake, but may expect funds wired to a Swiss bank account.

I don't know your level of experience with your coach or your mechanical skills but towing or trailering is usually reserved for the most dire of circumstances. A tow truck operator is unlikely to talk you out of a tow.

As Prevost owners we are perceived by some as "fair game" so those of us who have the scars will be more than happy to help you avoid becoming victims as we may have been from time to time. Use this site to get to know your coach, to get to know other members (not that I would recommend that) and to ask questions. A lot of the time if you have a problem we can help you via the forum, emails or phone.

For our benefit tell us what the problem is when you get an analysis. It does not sound like an AC compressor if the coach has to go to Detroit Diesel.