Changing Antifreeze

[dale farley]

I started draining my antifreeze this afternoon in preparation to switching to Extended Life. The Prevost manual says the system holds 24 gallons. I assumed the Webasto would hold a couple gallons more.

I have drained all 3 of the drain valves on the engine and lines, removed the plug from the bottom of the radiator, disconnected hoses from the Webasto and the heater lines, and I still have only 18 gallons of fluid. I opened the heater valve to let the heater lines drain, and that didn't seem to work, so I removed the lines in several places and that caused about another gallon to drain out the rear of the bus.

I have collected all I could so I would know how much I have drained. I don't know where the rest of the antifreeze can be. I placed 4" ramps under the front tires and lowered the rear of the bus to assist in the draining, but I don't see where I am going to get another 5 or more gallons. When I haved drained all I can, I intend to flush the system a couple times by filling with water and draining again after I run the bus until the thermostat opens.

Any suggestions as to how I can get any more antifreeze out of the bus? Has anyone else done this before?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Dale, This is solely conjecture, but is it possible Prevost comes up with that quantity based on the bus air heat exchangers? I have gotten about 18 gallons out of mine, but that was when I was using and replacing the DD antifreeze. I have never made a substantial effort to drain every drop. Both buses, the 87 and this one seemed to drain about the same amount so I never chased what may have remained. In August I am switching to EC-1 so I have a real interest in finding where the extra coolant is hiding.

[ajducote]

When I had my antifreeze changed to long life, the mechanic disconnected both hoses in the engine compartment that go to the drivers heater. He then hooked a garden hose to one of the pipes and flushed it out until it ran clean from the second pipe. This completely flushed that whole heater loop. Then drained as much as possible by raising the front of the bus. He also turned on the "heat exchanger" switch for the AuqaHot and ran clean water thru that loop to flush it out. I don't know how much total old antifreeze was drained, but he went thru a lot of trouble to drain and flush as much as possible.

[truk4u]

Dale,

Assuming your going to buy your coolant at NAPA, please give me the NAPA part number when you make your purchase.

[dale farley]

Tom, I am changing to EC-1, and I got it at NAPA. I'm using the Zerex (P# ZXED-1 Concentrate). They also have the 50/50. I bought gallons of distilled water from Wal Mart to mix with it. Prevost says use distilled water. The antifreeze at NAPA is $16.72 plus tax. It was a little over $15 in January when oil was a little cheaper.

Jon, I think you may be right about Prevost's quantity being based on the bus air heat exchangers. I know the last time I changed the coolant (2 years ago), I just drained everything I could without disconnecting any lines, and I got a little over 16 gallons. This time, I poured 5 gallons of measured water in a 5 gallon bucket, marked where it came to in the bucket, drained it in the marked buckets, and allowed a little for spills, so I feel pretty confident about my quantity. When I had less than 5 gallons in the bucket, I poured it back in the gallon container to get an accurate measurement.

The worst problem I've had so far was removing the drain plug from the radiator. Because of its location and 5/16" square head, it is hard to get a grip on it and make it turn. It is brass. I used every socket, wrench and special tool I had to get it off. I heated it a little and gave up a couple times! I finally resorted to vice grips and was able to get it out, but I have to replace it with a new one before I reinstall it.

One thing I just noticed about the new software we are using, it is nice to be able to see the previous posts while posting a reply. We couldn't do that with the old software. A kudo for Jim Skiff.

[dale farley]

I was tied up a good portion of the day, but I did get time to drain and flush the system two times. The first time I filled and drained it today, there was still a significant amount of antifreeze and the solution was light green when it drained. The second time I did it there was no visible signs of antifreeze, and the solution was just a little yellow looking. I discovered yesterday that there is a 1" brass plug in the heating system that I can easily access when I lower my front bumper. When I remove that plug, it lets the heater lines drain quite freely. When I removed this plug after the second run today, the water in the heater lines was almost perfectly clear. Each time I filled, I let the engine warm up in the yard then drove a few miles with the Webasto running, the circulation pump engaged and the dash heater turned on. I was also running my OTR air and my dash air to neutralize some of the heat inside the bus and to help the engine warm up faster.

Just to be sure I have all the old antifreeze out of the system, I intend to attempt to flush water through the Webasto tomorrow, refill the system and take another short drive before draining the 4th time and refilling with the antifreeze. I was pleasantly surprised to see that the old antifreeze which was two years old, looked like new when I drained it out yesterday. I was also pleased that NAPA had the drain plug (that I messed up while removing) from the bottom of the radiator and a new radiator cap to fit the fill tank. They also had the drain cocks. One of mine was hard to turn, so I replaced it. In retrospect, I should have replaced all three of them. The brass radiator plug was $1.47, and the brass drain cocks are $2.47. I put lithium grease on the threads of the other drain cocks so hopefully, they will continue to turn easily.

[garyde]

When I had my anti freeze replaced in October, prior to Oklahoma Rally, I asked the Detroit Deisel Manager about the extended life anti freeze. He recommended against it. There is some information out there that it could be detrimental to your engine.

[dale farley]

I called Detroit Diesel World Headquarters and spoke to a Technician/Engineer. He said if an antifreeze meets the DD spec (7SE298) there should be no problem using it in any of the engines that have that spec. Naturally, they prefer you use their brand antifreeze. There are some marine engines that require a different spec and some antifreeze that is suitable for road use is not suitable for all marine use. He said he was not aware of any DD dealers telling customers that they shouldn't be using an EC-1 Extended Life antifreeze in their engines. He said he has never heard of any engine damage attributed to using an antifreeze that meets the specs.

For anyone interested in making the switch to an Extended Life antifreeze, this is the short version of what I did.

1. Shorted the sensor on the fill tank.
2. Opened all three drain cocks on the left side of the engine and removed the drain plug from radiator. Drained 18 gallons.
3. Removed the large drain plug behind fromt bumper and drained the heater lines. The lines drain through the drain cocks in rear of the bus, but the plug lets air in and allows fluid to drain. Without removing the plug, all the fluid will not drain from the heater lines.
4. Filled with clear water, drove about 10 miles, with Webasto running, Circulation pump on and dash heater on. (See note below about Webasto.)
5. Repeated steps 2 - 4 above four more times. The 2nd drain was still loaded with antifreeze. The 3rd was significantly less, but still very visible. The 4th lost all smell of antifreeze. The 5th was the clearest. I actually drained mine 6 times, but I could tell no difference between 5 and 6. Four times would have probably been minimally sufficient.

Refill
6. Closed all valves and installed the drain plug in bottom of radiator. Replaced old filter with new "non charged" filter. Installed 14 gallons of 50/50 mix and the reservoir was full.
7. Started engine and ran for 30 seconds, then shut off. Removed drain plug (behind front bumper) for heater lines and a little over a gallon of clear water ran out before I started seeing the antifreeze.
8. Started engine again and let run until warm. Added one gallon of 100% antifreeze and 2 more gallons of the 50/50 mixture. Shut engine down once it warmed up sufficiently.
9. When engine cooled, I added the last gallon of 50/50 which made 18 total.
10. Checked all drain cocks and drain plugs to make sure they were tight and no leaks. Removed short from sensor and connected to fill reservoir.

Webasto - On CC, we have 2 switches for the Webasto. The Central Heat switch allows the Webasto to be used to heat the water in both of the 10 gallon water heaters. The Interior Heat Exchanger switch heats the interior of the bus. By turning both of the Webasto switches on and the dash heater on while driving, it allows the fresh water to flow through all plumbing in the heat system.

After the 3rd draining, I removed the inlet and outlet hose from the Webasto and ran water through the system by using a water hose6588.

I also changed the cap on the fill tank. It was a Stant R3, NAPA P/N 703-1400. The Blank Coolant Filter is NAPA Gold 4070.

The picture shows fluid from the 4th and 5th drain. The 5th was a little clearer. Each time, I drained the water while still rather hot. I have a few more pictures of the process if anyone is interested.

[gmcbuffalo]

Dale what did you do with all the antifreeze contaminated fluid? Assuming your first, second and third drains had antifreeze in it.

Greg

[dale farley]

Greg, I use 5 gallon buckets and 55 gallon plastic drums. I have about 15 gallons in gallon containers so I can use it in my farm equipment. Our county dump collects all such materials.

[gmcbuffalo]

I drained mine awhile back and filled 20 one gallon milk containers, a real hassle getting rid of it.

[BrianE]

Greg, In our area, Oil Can Henry's and Jiffy Lube stores will accept old coolant for a small fee.

[James]

I recently took the bus to Pacific Power Products in Coburg, Oregon at 08:00 am to have the coolant changed. I asked them to replace the old Power Cool IEG coolant with Power Cool Plus, the Detroit Diesel OAT extended life coolant (ELC), and a blank, non SCA, filter for the engine and to include an extra blank filter to carry as a spare. It was after 6 pm when I was notified that everything was completed and the bus was ready to go. Opening the engine door I noticed that they have replaced the coolant filter with the same one I had arrived with (part #23507545) which was an SCA filter for IEG coolant and they had also left the same filter in the coach for a spare. Since the day shift and my service liaison had left for the day I informed the swing shift manager of the problem. He brought a mechanic up who, even though the filter had SCA printed on the front, stated that it was a blank filter that was installed which had no SCA's. After going around and around with the tech and manager for several minutes I decided to return to the RV site at Marathon, less than a mile from Pacific Power, and fight the fight the next day.

When I returned the following morning and met with the service liaison he stated that he had already talked to the mechanics about my complaint and was convinced that the filter did not contain SCA's. I showed him the spare filter with the SCA label on the front as well as demonstrating that you could hear the SCA charge inside make a "thunk" sound when you shook the filter. He stated that the "thunk" sound was not the SCA charge but was an indication of when the filter needed changing in that if you didn't hear the sound you needed to change the filter. I asked him if he thought that was logical for someone to take the filter off and shake it to find out if it needed to be replaced and upon hearing the sound would reinstall it. He decided that that didn't make sense and went back to the techs and returned with an explanation that the sound was a float that would float up and shut off the coolant when the filter needed changing. We discussed why that version didn't make sense and I showed him the Detroit Diesel book on coolants and the fact that that filter was listed under the Power Cool IEG coolants and that it contained SCA's and that the book indicated that a "blank" filter should be installed with the Power Cool Plus coolant.

After much discussion Pacific Power agreed to drain and reinstall the coolant and filters at no charge but wanted to wait until the following week to do the work. I agreed and again showed up at 8 am the following week and turned the coach over to them. Around 11 am the service liaison stated that the everything was done and the coach was ready. I went out coach, checked that they had installed the correct filter but looking in the sight glass discovered that the coolant was low. I informed the service liaison of the problem and he sent the mechanic out with several additional gallons of Power Cool Plus concentrate. After he put two gallons in, without raising the level in the sight glass, I asked him if he was going to add any distilled water since the coolant was concentrated. He stated; no, you don't have to add any water with this coolant. Turns out he had replaced the coolant with 100% Power Cool Plus concentrate with no distilled water. I pointed out the directions on the Power Cool Plus container and asked him to drain part of the coolant and replace with distilled water. He discovered that they did not have distilled water so I drove to Wal-Mart, bought ten gals of distilled water and brought them back. After filling the tank with seven gallons it now indicated full.

I believe that this frustrating coolant change debacle was due to a lack of knowledge and training of the Coburg Pacific Power Products personnel about Power Cool Plus. I also believe that it is not restricted just to this one Detroit Diesel facility. Though the Power Cool Plus coolant has been out for some time the Detroit facilities that I have talked with, Pacific Power and Williams, are not very familiar with the product. Even the Detroit Customer Support Center, when I contacted them both by phone and email, did not know that you needed to install a blank filter with the Power Cool Plus coolant even though it is indicated in their Coolant Selections publication (DDC-SVC-BRO-0002). The email that I got back stated that I could "stick with" the part #23507545 SCA filter, which is contrary to their own Detroit Diesel publication.

I would recommend that if you decided to change to ELC either do it yourself or monitor the facility that is doing the work very carefully. Even though Pacific Power agreed to fix their mistake I would have preferred that it never occured.

[dale farley]

James, Sounds like a nightmare just to have your coolant changed. This is a significant part of the reason I do my own work. At least I know who to blame if it isn't done right. Your situation is another example of the importance of knowing what the shop should do before you leave your bus with them. Otherwise, you would be driving around with a horribly wrong mixture in your engine. Makes you wonder how many other buses the shop has done the same way? I'm glad you got yours straightened out even if it did take a week, two trips, and some arm twisting to get it accomplished.

[dale farley]

James, You will probably need to check the fluid level again once you drive a few miles. I thought I had mine topped off, but we made a short trip a couple days ago, and I still needed to add another gallon, so I now have added 19 gallons since my initial drain.

[HarborBus]

James, I was going to have my coolant changed last fall but decided against it and to further study the issue. One of the concerns I have is that if the old coolant isn't purged completely it ruins the new extended life coolant. Unlike the County Coaches, that have an Aqua Hot system and it's own dedicated coolant, the Marathon uses the Webasto that shares the coolant with the engine. Additionally I have heard that if air is not purged from the entire system the Webasto will not run. Did you check the operation of the Webasto after the work was completed? How did you insure that they drained out all the coolant from the heat exchangers in the bus? What is the part number on the correct filter? How many gallons were finally used? and finally what was the Quoted price to do the work and the final bill? I know it's allot of questions but....................

[James]

I'm not sure how many total gallons they replaced the first time but I was billed for 10 gals of coolant. The second time was 8 gal of coolant and I put 7 gal of distilled water in for a total of 15 gallons. I have driven a couple of hundred miles since then and the coolant seems to be staying stable.

Anticipating the second draining and replacement of coolant I did run the dash heat and the Webasto to circulate the fluid in case the heat exchangers were not drained. I also ran the Webasto and dash heat after the second drain and both seem to be working ok. When we get home to Alaska in a couple of weeks I plan on draining the system and doing it again to make sure I have the proper mixture as well as replacing the coolant in the generator with the ELC.

[travelite]

Drain a sample of the coolant and send it to a test lab for testing. This is the only way to test the extended life coolants. If the shop mixed the old with the new, the test lab should be able to detect it. Note that extended life coolants cannot be tested with test strips.

[Steve Bennett]

James, I can tell you that you did not experience an isolated incident. About 1 year ago I took my coach into the Detroit Diesel shop in Mira Loma (Valley Power Systems). I requested a drain and refill with Detroit Power Cool, and specifically had asked them if they had pre-mix otherwise I wanted to bring in distilled water. I was told that it indeed was pre-mix, I also asked for the filters to be changed with blanks. I was standing in front of the bus as I was watching the technician dump in the coolant (I should tell you the reason it was being changed was that Prevost did it 4 months before, and added 2 SCA filters with a fresh initial fill of Power Cool, and it tested very high in additives) I noticed he was using the same 1 gallon container that I used to top off the coolant. I asked if it was pre-mix, he indicated it was, I asked if I could see the container. he became agitated, and eventually agreed. I examined the container, and it was straight Power Cool that was supposed to be diluted 50%. I then went to the shop manager, and was told I did not know what I was talking about. We then pulled out the container, and I showed him the instructions. I asked if they had distilled water, they did not. I was now 5:00PM and they did not have time to get distilled water. I should add that I got there at 8:00AM, and had an appointment. I did not pull the bus into the stall until 4:00PM. We had to use tap water to get the proper dilution. I asked if the filters were blanks, they assured me they were. 2 weeks later I was under the bus, and looked at the coolant filters, they were SCA additive filters. I tested the coolant and the nitrite level was over 4,000. I have now drained and refilled the system twice myself, installed blank filters and used deionized water with the coolant. I have found the level of service at most shops to be of such poor quality that it is astounding. I wish we could get technicians to take the hippocratic oath (first do no harm)! As has been indicated in this forum, you really need to watch what is being done on your coach. I personally check everything that we have done on all of the coaches we sell, and am at the point of doing what we can in house. I can tell you some stories that you would not believe on what we have witnessed.

[phorner]

Steve,

Based on your personal experiences, as well as the ordeal that James has now endured, it should be obvious that it is imperative for owners to actively participate in any work performed on their bus. I try to be as attentive as possible whenever my bus is in a shop, not only to educate myself as to how things come apart and go back together, but also to provide critical information to the technician as may be required.

If you simply give 'em the keys and have them call you when they're "done" you are often taking a risk.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I think this group on average is significantly better informed than the average service customer, and as POG continues to grow and its members continue to share knowledge we are seeing things at service facilities that have gone unnoticed by most customers.

I don't know if the problem is lack of education, lack of caring, lack of pride, or just plain stupidity, but I think the message to all of us is clear. We are the last defense of our coaches against poor quality service. I just bought a truck to play with and eventually sell. In going over it I thought I recognized what was a fuel filter part number on the coolant system. I verified it and thats exactly what it was. What's worse is the coolant conditioning filter was where the secondary fuel filter should have been. Some service professional clearly screwed up by reversing two filters that should never have been reversed. I think that mistake qualifies in the stupid category.

I believe the answer to the issue of poor quality service for those who choose to take their coaches in for service is to strongly support as a group those businesses that do it right. Over the years we have had members experience some really crappy quality or outrageous priced service. Just like we have a members contact list, maybe we should create a list of service companies that are fair priced, take pride in the work, and stand behind their work. I would like to see a list of those who are lousy service providers, but I think we could get in trouble unless we had proof, such as Harry Hoppe's experience with a destroyed axle. Steve's example of professionals that get testy when a civilian questions them is very typical of the intimidation a lot of owners experience and they consider that expertise, when in fact it is wrongly justified defensiveness. A lot of the so called professionals cannot accept the fact that others may know what they know.

Many posts have been made praising certain facilities, but I often wonder if the praise was because the owner literally watched like a hawk and saw and understood how the work was performed, or if the owner was pleased because the service manager had a nice smile and presented a bill that was a few bucks less than expected. I don't think we should lavish praise on people for doing their job, although in these times when the professionals can't even do the simple tasks, it does get us giddy with joy when someone actually does a job properly.

[phorner]

Jon,

You make several good points. I would be very interested in a list of "POG Approved" service facilities. although I'm not sure what purely objective standard that could be used. Maybe it doesn't even have to be purely objective. This rating could be "earned" via comments from POG members based on their documented experiences.

For me one of the greatest challenges is determining who to trust working on my bus. So far, it's a pretty short list.

And, I guess "trust" is the operative word. Trust to do no harm, trust to do the job correctly at a fair price and trust to make things right when something goes wrong, because something can always go wrong for even the best technician at the best facilities.

[JIM KELLER]

Jon, Your last sentence is sooo true and a result of today's economy, the market and work ethics.

[Jeff Bayley]

I'm in the process of reading this entire thread but skipped to the end to put this post.

How do I know if my Aqua Hot is tied into my main coolant ? I'm about to change the coolant over here at Oreen Zook's shop (who has been so very hospitable and kind to us). I was told by someone if I had Aqua Hot (instead of Wabasco) that it probabley wasn't tied in. I have no owners manual for the coach by the way. 97 Royale if anyone has one they're willing to copy for us. The Aqua Hot has it's own resevoir so that tells me that it's on it's own system pretty much. I guess another way would be to use the test strips owen has here before we do it to see if they two coolants measure out different. But with it's own resevoir I can't see how it can be anything else but independent.

I'm just planning on letting what ever will drain out easy enough drain and refilling with the standard DD coolant. Not the Extended Life. If the Aqua Hot isn't tied in, I'm looking at about a 15 gallon capacity is that right ? So since it's not all going to drop out, having 7 gallons of concentrated coolant on hand should be more than enough right ? Dale has been helping me by email also and already informed me I need to add some more after I drive a few miles so I'll leave here with some extra. I need to run to the store and get 7 gallons of distilled water also instead of dilluting it with tap water. Right again ? Woa. If I get them all that's like 4 or 5 things I got right. Bonus round: The bus has 8 tires right ?

Stay tuned for my post under the True Confessions subheading. I'll detail in step by step how to change out a perfectly good mechanical fuel pump on the generator. Sounds easy doesn't it ? It's not. It takes a lot of stupidity to do what I did and most of you just aren't capable of that.

[ajducote]

Jeff,

I have a 99 Royale with Aqua Hot and it is tied into the engine coolant. Do you have a "heat exchanger" button on your dash? Can you heat your hot water while going don the road without turing on the Aqua Hot? If the answer to either question is yes, then engine coolant heats the water in the Aqua Hot tank. Hope that all makes sense.

[jonnie]

Jeff,

The Aquahot tank is for the Aquahot only. You probably have a loop from the engine coolant that heats the antifreeze in the AH tank. Draining the engine wil not drain the AH

John

[Jeff Bayley]

Andre- Thanks for the reply. Yes I do have the Heat Exchanger button on the dash although it isn't ligting up (checking the bulb in just a minute). I don't understand the reason for the seperate resovoir on the Aqua Hot. Does that mean if my engine coolant is low that I can top it off though the Aqua Hot if I wanted to ? I just checked to see that the electric switch to my hot water has been off all night. I could go ahead and bleed off any residual hot water, then turn the engine on and let it come up to operating temperature and go down and feel the Aqua Hot hoses and see if the water has warmed back up again but it sounds like your know the answer pretty much by virtue of the Heat Exchanger button on the dash.

[ajducote]

Jeff,
I don't understand the reason for the seperate resovoir on the Aqua Hot. Does that mean if my engine coolant is low that I can top it off though the Aqua Hot if I wanted to ?

If you mean the small plastic over flow bottle near the Aqua Hot, That is only for the Aqua Hot to top off the hot water tank in the Aqua Hot. It is suppose to have "boiler safe" antifreeze in it.

The engine coolant runs thru a coil inside the Aqua Hot and does not mix with the water inside the Aqua Hot tank. Or at least that is how I understand it.

[Jeff Bayley]

So I guess I'm just going to drain what ever I can out the radiator drain plug and then refill and at worst I get the fluid half replaced. Do it again in 6 months maybe. I do have PDF's of both the Aqua Hot Owners Manual and Service Manual and neither of them have a section in the Table of Contents on changing the anti-freeze so I'm throwing the towel in on that for today. Probabley some more POG'ers can chime in later when they check this thread. I have to get into the shop and get this done and get back to NYC for a deal. I can redo the fluid again more propoerly later. But this coolant has 5 years and 50,000 miles on it and I don't want another blown engine so I'm going to dump what comes out and refill it before I regret prograstinating on it. If I did want to take a stab at getting some of the integrated fluid out should I run the Heat Exhanger after draining the coolant from the main engine radiator with the engine on for 30 seconds or a minute (while monitoring the engine temp of course so I as not to overheat). I can either jump the low coolant sensor with a paper clip or just hit the override switch to run it for a minute. I think others have disconnected extra hoses to get all drained and there very well may be a good reason for that instead of what I suggest. For one thing, maybe it's bad for the Aqua Hot to be running or cyclining or the heat exhanger with no coolant in it.

[ajducote]

Jeff,

This is the link to Aqua Hot manuals.

http://www.hydro-hot.com/b2c/ecom/ecomEnduser/default/ArchievedManuals.aspx

[Jeff Bayley]

This doesn't look good. Looks more like a dark beer than coolant. No test strips here but I'm saving some to test later but expect to test out with zero additive protection. Wonder if it would do any good to send it to a lab to test just to see how bad it is. Anyone know the lab to use ?

Needless to say I think I need to run the bus a few thousand miles and then change it again.

How important is it to use distilled water especially if I'm going to change it out again shortly ? I guess for $10 for 10 gallons of water I might as well run to the store.

[Jeff Bayley]

James, I can tell you that you did not experience an isolated incident..............I asked if it was pre-mix, he indicated it was, I asked if I could see the container. he became agitated, and eventually agreed. I examined the container, and it was straight Power Cool that was supposed to be diluted 50%. I then went to the shop manager, and was told I did not know what I was talking about. We then pulled out the container, and I showed him the instructions. .................I can tell you some stories that you would not believe on what we have witnessed.


Add me to the list of coolant changing stories. I went out the bus to check on the progress and found the mechanic just about to start pouring. I had already called Detroit the day before to ask if the stuff the shop was going to be picking up was concentrate or ready to use and they said it was concentrated. I ask the mechanic if he thought I should run to the store and splurge on $10 worth of distilled water and he said "What for, it's already pre-mixed with water". I took one of the gallons into the bus to read the instructions which said to dilute the Cool Power (from DD we got it) with tap water. So ok, no distilled water specified but it said to dilute it. I took the jug back out to show the mechanic (Juuuuust like the other stories here) and even in the face of showing him the instructions he insisted it was pre-mixed. It does use the word "Premixed" or similar somehwere in the description and this is confusing. What that means to say is that it is preloaded with the additives. Not with water. So back and forth we went and he was getting aggitated and finally said "I'll call Detroit to make sure if it will mak you happy" and he called Detroit right in front of me. They told him it was concentrated and it needed to be mixed.

The notion of doing the work yourself to make sure it's done right............ truer words never spoken. I want to say that I'm happy with the shop I'm at and they have been very nice and hospitable including the owner and I will not hestiate to come back here again (if they'll have me) but chaulk this up to another case of making sure your ass is out there and your observing the work.

Incidentley, most you probalbey already know this but 100% antifreeze freezes before a 50/50 mixture does. I reacall that 70% antifreeze and 30% water is the optimum mixture for the freeze point and I don't know when any of us would ever need that kind of protection unless you could drive to the North Pole.

[Donnie_M]

Add me to the list of coolant changing stories. I went out the bus to check on the progress and found the mechanic just about to start pouring. I had already called Detroit the day before to ask if the stuff the shop was going to be picking up was concentrate or ready to use and they said it was concentrated. I ask the mechanic if he thought I should run to the store and splurge on $10 worth of distilled water and he said "What for, it's already pre-mixed with water". I took one of the gallons into the bus to read the instructions which said to dilute the Cool Power (from DD we got it) with tap water. So ok, no distilled water specified but it said to dilute it. I took the jug back out to show the mechanic (Juuuuust like the other stories here) and even in the face of showing him the instructions he insisted it was pre-mixed. It does use the word "Premixed" or similar somehwere in the description and this is confusing. What that means to say is that it is preloaded with the additives. Not with water. So back and forth we went and he was getting aggitated and finally said "I'll call Detroit to make sure if it will mak you happy" and he called Detroit right in front of me. They told him it was concentrated and it needed to be mixed.

The notion of doing the work yourself to make sure it's done right............ truer words never spoken. I want to say that I'm happy with the shop I'm at and they have been very nice and hospitable including the owner and I will not hestiate to come back here again (if they'll have me) but chaulk this up to another case of making sure your ass is out there and your observing the work.

Incidentley, most you probalbey already know this but 100% antifreeze freezes before a 50/50 mixture does. I reacall that 70% antifreeze and 30% water is the optimum mixture for the freeze point and I don't know when any of us would ever need that kind of protection unless you could drive to the North Pole.
I had that problem until I switched to the 55 gal drum. Notice it says it has "deionized water" in it.

[Jeff Bayley]

Donnie- There might be two kinds of Cool Power as there are with typical anti-freezes. One that is Concentrate and one that is already diluted. After calling Detroit in front of me and finding out the stuff they sent over was concentrated he said that the last coolant they sent was pre-diluted.

That picture of my coolant is not accurate. I scooped it out of the catch pan the guy used which I found out later (and should have known to being with) was also used for oil. So I failed to catch a sample of what was really in there. I'm still planning on changing it out again after a few thousand miles or at least testing it.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jeff, failure to change coolant on a regular basis or to maintain the chemistry can have serious consequences so your plan to make sure the system is clean and contains the right coolant is definitely the correct way to go.

I have not seen or heard the issues that were somewhat common with the two cycle engine such as plugged radiators or silicon drop out, but because of the emphasis on proper coolant maintenance I suspect we still have those concerns, but most importantly the biggest concern is the failure of the cylinder liners due to improper coolant chemistry. The liners can literally become perforated.

Protect that new engine. and the old one as well.

[Jeff Bayley]

Jon- Thanks. I really wish I had captured some of the old coolant to see just how bad off it was before it all dumpted into the oil pan. Another reaosn to do things yourself. I could have done it myself. I should have done it myself. About 10 gallons out of what, 15 total (if it's not mixed with the Aqua Hot and Dan at Phoenix Royal confirmed mine is not mixed)......they got about 10 gallons out. I could try testing the coolant again when I change it again in a couple thousand miles for good measure. I'd have cobbled up test results I guess though..

By the way, this engine is not the one that blew up. It was the Angola engine. And I didn't put a new one or factory refurbished one in, just a used one. I belive it was defective wrist pins in the early series 60 (1994 chassis) that got that engine and not neglect of maintainence but having been kicked in the balls once I should really be more diligent so I don't suffer needlessly again. I printed out your maintaince sheet that is on here and filled it out and taped it to the back of one of the overhead drivers cabinets. Got a new air filter and fuel filer today, changed the generator oil out at 85 hours and put a new fule filter on it also. I got most of the stuff on your check list "checked" except for a few things. You going to Maine so you can help me fix the rest ? he,he

Going to try to hit up a Motosat dealer in Canton Ohio tommorow and get the sattalite straignted out. Place is called www.CloudCasters.com Anybody ever used them ?

[kenrobertson]

Jeff - You have two separate systems with a heat exchanger only - You can share a heat source, but you don't share fluid -

Ken

[dreamchasers]

I had that problem until I switched to the 55 gal drum. Notice it says it has "deionized water" in it.

Donnie, Where do you purchase Power Cool in 55 gallon drum quantities.

Thanks in advance for your reply.

Hector

[rahangman]

Jon- Thanks. I really wish I had captured some of the old coolant to see just how bad off it was before it all dumpted into the oil pan. Another reaosn to do things yourself. I could have done it myself. I should have done it myself. About 10 gallons out of what, 15 total (if it's not mixed with the Aqua Hot and Dan at Phoenix Royal confirmed mine is not mixed)......they got about 10 gallons out. I could try testing the coolant again when I change it again in a couple thousand miles for good measure. I'd have cobbled up test results I guess though..

By the way, this engine is not the one that blew up. It was the Angola engine. And I didn't put a new one or factory refurbished one in, just a used one. I belive it was defective wrist pins in the early series 60 (1994 chassis) that got that engine and not neglect of maintainence but having been kicked in the balls once I should really be more diligent so I don't suffer needlessly again. I printed out your maintaince sheet that is on here and filled it out and taped it to the back of one of the overhead drivers cabinets. Got a new air filter and fuel filer today, changed the generator oil out at 85 hours and put a new fule filter on it also. I got most of the stuff on your check list "checked" except for a few things. You going to Maine so you can help me fix the rest ? he,he

Going to try to hit up a Motosat dealer in Canton Ohio tommorow and get the sattalite straignted out. Place is called www.CloudCasters.com Anybody ever used them ?

Jeff, what is wrong with the MotoSat? I just had a problem (2nd time) and MotoSat was VERY helpful, and I am happy happy again. Their support was great.

[Donnie_M]

Donnie, Where do you purchase Power Cool in 55 gallon drum quantities.

Thanks in advance for your reply.

Hector
I buy the Power Cool and Detroit Diesel oil (rebranded Delvac) in 55 gals. straight from Florida Detroit Diesel in Orlando. I also buy genuine Detroit Diesel filters.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

More a question to Hector........If you buy Power Cool in 55 gallon drums, based on a guess I would say that would last 2 to 3 coolant changes. With a 2 year life, even if it is in the drum would it not be outdated? Oil I buy in the 55 gallon drum. Coolant I prefer to be fresh.

A service facility that goes through a drum quickly has a good reason to buy coolant that way.

[Donnie_M]

If this was already posted I apologize...