Bay Door Lock Malfunction

[aggies09]

Good Morning all. I have been searching through all of the threads looking for info on bay door lock maintenance. I couldn't find any comments relating to same. I have a bay door lock that will not open/unlock without using the key. It will actuate into the closed/locked position electrically. I have tried some spray lubricant, but that doesn't appear to have helped. Before I start taking everything apart is there something specific that I should look for before or after tearing into this project?

[truk4u]

Keep us posted Tony, I have the same problem. I think the electric actuaters get old and don't have enough power to move the assembly.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

I have the same issue. It is not at the top of my list but is important to remedy.
Ed (sawdust) tells me that he had the issue and found it to be an imperfect ground that he found in the bay area. I can see how this can be and will look for similar when I get a chance. That will entail removing the inside cover of the bay door. My problem is intermittent so the bad ground sounds plausible.

Keep this thread up to date with your results as I am sure there are others wanting to know.

JIM

[merle&louise]

Tony, I don't know if we have the same actuator. Mine is from a 1990s Ford truck. I have found some on eBay for around $25. If you price them at a Ford dealership they are over $160 each! If anyone needs to buy one I can post the eBay address.

[Kevin Erion]

I think this is a common problem, the solinoid gets weak over time. It would be a guess but the friction on the bay door locks is higher than the solionid was desien to handle.

[michaeldterry]

I also have this problem intermittently on a couple of Evangeline's bay doors. The problem seems to be more prevalent when the outside temps are cold. I'd love to know how to eliminate this issue, so I'll be watching this thread with great interest! On mine, when the problem manifests, the locks seem to "click" (audible), but do not engage/disengage (depending on whether they are either locked or unlocked at the moment). I've thought about trying some WD-40 or similar silicone lubricant or lithium grease, but don't want to make a mess.

[jack14r]

I had a door that was out of adjustment and the actuator would not lock it,could that be the problem?

[GDeen]

Add me to the list....like Michael, colder temps seem to accentuate the problem. That makes me believe it is more friction related that a bad ground. In fact, many times just cycling the switch a time or two and creating some momentum will unlock the particular door.

[Steve Bennett]

This is a common problem. A couple of things to check before replacing the solenoid. There is a small rubber bumper that keeps the handle from contacting its' metal stop. If that bumper is missing, damaged or compressed it will cause the locking pin to drag. Cleaning the pin/assembly thoroughly will generally get them working properly. WD40 tends to gum things up over time. I have had good luck with TriFlow, a bicycle chain lubricant. Silicon also works well, but does not last very long. The solenoids are very easy to replace in most conversions, although some require drilling out pop rivets or removing the ZipDee chair holders.

[lonesome george]

I had a bay door lock that operated intermittently. It had power from the switch and a ground and it would function with the key but not always with the switch. My lock is operated by a small motor which I removed and took apart to see if something was amiss with it, found nothing wrong and the motor would run just fine on the bench. Went back to the lock for a closer look and found that the lock pin was stiff to move, it had some sticky goop on the pin, cleaned the pin and the lock housing with brake clean and put a light oil on the pin. That lock is working OK now, did a round of cleaning on the rest of the locks and so far so good.
I think these locks struggle in very cold weather, moisture can freeze on the pins and/or the lube will get stiff and the little motors can't get it done under those conditions.
Sometimes the bay lock indicator light will not go out with the first push of the lock switch but with a couple more tries ours will get the locks out.

[dale farley]

I had a bad actuator on my last bus (93 Marathon), and I replaced it. I think it ws $65 from Prevost (about 2 1/2 years ago), and the replacement was not a difficult job at all. Removed the panel and installed the acutator with little difficulty. I would try some WD 40 and have someone hit the switch a few times to see if that helps. Mine was too tired to funciton.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Obviously keeping the door lock pin and associated mechanism clean and lubricated is important. However, the solenoids are very sensitve to voltage and if there is any resistance in the circuit to them they will not function well.

I cannot speak for any conversion other than a Liberty, but in mine I have two octagonal base relays mounted on the circuit breaker panel in the second driver's side bay. If the contacts are burned or dirty my bay door locks will not function properly. They will work intermittently or one or two will fail to work. So on a Liberty check those two relays. FWIW I bought my last ones at WW Grainger and got the type that have a manual actuator. They were showing signs of acting up prior to our last trip so I manually actuated them about ten cycles each and they now work fine.

[sawdust_128]

Three things I have detected.

1. Make sure all the screws that hold the mechanism are good and tight. I had some which were stripped and the loosness cause a misalignment and failure to operate correctly. I filled the holes with quick set epoxy and redrilled. Fixed.

2. I have had several locks including the entrance door lock fail because of some form of God awful lube used on them which over time seems to turn into a form of liquid nails. Worse when it gets cold. I pack the area around the mechanism with paper towels and use a parts brush with Naptha VM to give it a good cleaning. Work it real good with liquid wrench penetrating oil and I then go back with a graphite dry lube.

3. Broken wires and failing connectors.

[lonesome george]

Curious here, Kevin, Steve and Jon have called the lock actuator a solinoid, mine are operated with little DC motors. I know this for a fact I had one apart. Maybe this is a year/model thing mine is a 98 chassis.

[mikedee]

I took my left front bay door apart at Mira Loma Prevost Monday night because the lock was loose in the door skin. A C-clip holds the lock in place and had worked off the cylinder. I replaced the clip and all is working.

The tech I always use, Tony removed one of two springs on the actuator. He told me they worked better with only one spring. Two springs overloads the actuator from his experience.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

George,

You may be completely correct. I stopped investigating my problems when I realized the relays had burned contacts, replaced them and the locks began working again. I call them solenoids because they slam and bang like a solenoid might sound, but they may be motors. If one quits working I guess I will find out.

[aggies09]

Wow! I am surprised that with such a common problem, that there hasn't been any previous posts related to this issue. I appreciate the input and ideas. It will be next week before I can tear into this but will let you know what I discover.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Be like me and take the lazy approach. Clean and lube the pins and work them back and forth with the key. Then check those relays.

By being lazy I never got to the point where I needed tools.

[Denny]

I too was having problems with locks. One would not even work with the key. After removing the motor and actuator assembly the key worked fine. I removed the small motor and found one of the brushes had become dislodged. They are slightly larger than the flint that fits in a Zippo lighter. Does anyone have a part number and know where the can be purchased from besides Prevost?

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

I too was having problems with locks. One would not even work with the key. After removing the motor and actuator assembly the key worked fine. I removed the small motor and found one of the brushes had become dislodged. They are slightly larger than the flint that fits in a Zippo lighter. Does anyone have a part number and know where the can be purchased from besides Prevost?

Here are some pictures of what Denny is talking about. You can see in the different views the motor actuator mounted, the actuator dismounted, the actuator disassembled (note springs, brushes, commutator), the actuator disassembled with springs and brushes in place in those little holes.
If the commutator looks dirty you can clean it with a typewriter eraser.

Denny, if you shake the unit and hear a little rattle, I think your missing brush has fallen into the shall hole into the rack gear area below and with persistence as with a puzzle you will be able to shake it out.

If you want to replace the whole thing the Prevost part number is; 780428......$56.02.




JIM

[truk4u]

Jim,

Pictures work fine, you have to go to "Advanced" to get it done. Click on the paper clip at the top and then Add Files. I think it's easier than before.

[sswindle14260]

I have had similar problems too. I lubricated mine with silicone and it has been working fine so far. Now, my bay lock indicator light will not go out no matter how many times you try. All the doors are locking and unlocking like they should but light just will not go out. Any ideas how to check the problem?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

If you put the coach description in a signature it helps with answers. We can give you answers that might be accurate for our type of coach but that won't help you if you have a different conversion.

[HarborBus]

I have had similar problems too. I lubricated mine with silicone and it has been working fine so far. Now, my bay lock indicator light will not go out no matter how many times you try. All the doors are locking and unlocking like they should but light just will not go out. Any ideas how to check the problem?

I think my bus is also reading these posts, seems like every time something new comes up on the forum it decides to try that just to test me to see if I notice the problem or if I do notice can I figure it out. Preparing to get on the road to Prevost today my bay door light would not go out. I tried the switch on the dash several times, then tried the switch beside the door, still have a light. went out to check that all bays werre locked found one that would not lock or unlock with the switch. I could see it trying to lock. I locked it with the key and presto light on the dash went out. So try locking all the doors with the key. It that doesn't do it there is probably one door that is not sensing that the door is locked. Just a guess.

[sswindle14260]

I have a 98 Royale Coach. I have added it to my signature, I think..

[ajducote]

On the Royale coach, if the bay indicator light on the dash stays on, there is a pretty good chance that one or more of the micro switches in the bay door is not connected or working. The micro switch is closed when the lock pin is in the unlocked position. The micro switch is connected to the same bracket that the locking mechanism is on. You have to take off the access panel on the inside of the bay door to get to it. Or it could be a loose or broken connector "anywhere" in the system. That's not much help is it!
Good luck.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

OK Royale folks...Sammy and Brenda need to know about the light to indicate the bay doors are locked. Help him out. How does Royale light the light when the bays are unlocked so he can figure out where to look when they are locked to see what is keeping power to the light circuit.

[truk4u]

I have the same issue. It is not at the top of my list but is important to remedy.
Ed (sawdust) tells me that he had the issue and found it to be an imperfect ground that he found in the bay area. I can see how this can be and will look for similar when I get a chance. That will entail removing the inside cover of the bay door. My problem is intermittent so the bad ground sounds plausible.

Keep this thread up to date with your results as I am sure there are others wanting to know.

JIM


Sheesh, we're a little testy these days!

1. Go to advanced
2. Click the paperclip
3. Upper right corner "add files"
4. Next box that comes up says "select files"
5. Your now in your hard drive, find the picture(s) and select
6. Now upload the file
7. Now exit the page
8. Hit the paperclip again and select your picture
9. View to be sure it's what you want and then post

[lonesome george]

Here is a picture of the bay door lock operator with the cover removed. The black switch in the middle top with red wires attached is the switch that indicates the position of the lock pin. There are a number of things that can keep the light from going out with the locks locked, this switch is one of them.
On our bus the switch contacts are closed when the lock pin is in the locked position and open with the lock is unlocked (when the switch is made). One of the wires has 12v dc supplied when the ignition switch is on and marked with a + example 117+. This is easy to check and may get you started on your way to "lights out".
I believe the bay door locks are a Prevost device.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

I have added pictures to my previous post #20 above.

It is interesting to note that comparing Georges picture to mine that there was a Prevost design change.

George's is a newer design.



Thanks Tom for the one on one tutoring, it's not fun getting OLD, :pJIM :)

[lonesome george]

Jim, do you have a bay door lock indicator light on the instrument panel?

[Denny]

Jim,
Thanks for your help and the photos. I order the parts this morning from Prevost.

[HarborBus]

Here are some pictures of what Denny is talking about. You can see in the different views the motor actuator mounted, the actuator dismounted, the actuator disassembled (note springs, brushes, commutator), the actuator disassembled with springs and brushes in place in those little holes.
If the commutator looks dirty you can clean it with a typewriter eraser.

Denny, if you shake the unit and hear a little rattle, I think your missing brush has fallen into the shall hole into the rack gear area below and with persistence as with a puzzle you will be able to shake it out.

If you want to replace the whole thing the Prevost part number is; 780428......$56.02.





JIM


Jim I just bought a new actuator as I have one that is weak. Do you know if these are serviceable other than just cleaning them up?

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Jim I just bought a new actuator as I have one that is weak. Do you know if these are serviceable other than just cleaning them up?

Elliott, Other than making sure of the integrity of the assembly, cleaning the commutator and making sure the brushes make proper contact with it, there doesn't appear to be anything else you can do.

The base under the motor that holds the rack gear is made up of two halves bonded or glued together. If you tried to separate them you probably would destroy the part. If you could saw it around the periphery successfully you would have to make up the material removed by the saw kerf when assembling. Other than the rack and the electrical contacts being in there, I don't imagine it would do much good to open it up anyway, especially since they are readily available. If you could no longer purchase the motor assembly then one would look at it differently.

JIM :)

[HarborBus]

Thanks Jim, I pretty much assumed as much but I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. The price you quoted is still the same and considering the life of them it's a good deal.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Thanks Jim, I pretty much assumed as much but I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. The price you quoted is still the same and considering the life of them it's a good deal.


Yes Elliott, that is a current price and part number, I just got into this Friday,26th and ordered one too.

JIM

[Denny]

I had two motor assemblies go bad so I ordered four. If two are bad then others may be coming to the end of their life span in the near future. if you order three or more they are about $4 less per unit.