Member Map - Another Idea ...

[Ray Davis]

This thread is prompted by the discussion of Dale's member map, which really doesn't exist anymore, or at best isn't maintained.

A couple of years ago, when Dale first introduced the members map I thought about writing an extension to this forum software, which I loosely called a Member's Resource Guide. It would have been a voluntary area of the forum where the members could enter their information, much like was entered on the member map.

That would have them been coupled with software to allow members to access that information, download and print a "report" with all the members info.


In thinking about this a little more I realized we can do exactly this, without any custom software. It would simply require that we as members follow a few guidelines to make it work. In fact, this concept can be extended to other information (more later).

So, let me explain what I'm thinking. First a couple of terms, so we're all on the same page.

The POG forum software consists of several "topic forums" (just called forums for short). This one is "General Chit Chat". Others include "Greasy Jeans ..." etc, etc.

Within each forum there is 1 or more threads.
Each thread will have one or more posts, made my POG members.

To make this work, we would do the following

1. Chose a forum that is appropriate for the "Resource Guide", or have Jim or an admin create one.

2. Start a new thread titled "Resource Guide" or appropriate title.

3. Every member who chooses to be "listed" in the resource guide is responsible for posting and maintaining their own "post".

4. We would define a template of what information should be in each post for consistency (more later). This would include things like name, address, phones, email, facilities, etc.

5. As mentioned in #3, each member would enter their own post, containing the information as defined by the template we decide.

6. If the information changes, or is out of date, the user would EDIT their own post.

7. If the user choses to no longer be listed, they would DELETE their own post.

8. If the member decides to quit POG and their post is still there, then Jim or an admin would have to DELETE that post.

9. NO COMMENTS or DISCUSSION would be posted in this thread, only resource entry posts. (This is absolutely key)



So, what does this give us.

1. a single thread that we have everyone's information that used to be contained on Dales member map (minus the map), that only POG members can access.

2. This is easily printed out by anyone who needs a hard-copy version. The forum software allows 10 posts per page, so let's say we have 150 users post their information, you would have a 15 page booklet with everyone's info. Print as often as you like or need.

3. By following a well defined template (this needs to be carefully worked on before we start), this would allow me (or anyone else that is comfortable doing network programming) to access the thread, parse the information, and to perhaps generate a PDF file for Jim to post which is sorted, printed nicer etc. This wouldn't be available at the start, but is something that could happen, if we follow the guidelines.

4. We would also use the "tags" feature of the forum, to allow easy searching of tags to find these resource threads, since they will generally NOT be at the top of the "new posts" list.

If this works, we could potentially dedicate other threads as resource information. For example we might have

* Server providers list
* RV park recommendations
* RV parks to avoid, or service places to avoid.
* Great places to visit
* Great places to eat

The key to any of these resource threads working is that there are no discussions in these threads. It's our discussion and thread creep that makes it hard to get at some of the really valuable information in this site.


So, what does everyone think? For this to work, it has to be member driven, and member supported. It costs nothing, and requires no work on Jim's part or his "geek team". It simply requires discipline on our part.

Ray

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

This thread is prompted by the discussion of Dale's member map, which really doesn't exist anymore, or at best isn't maintained.

A couple of years ago, when Dale first introduced the members map I thought about writing an extension to this forum software, which I loosely called a Member's Resource Guide. It would have been a voluntary area of the forum where the members could enter their information, much like was entered on the member map.

That would have them been coupled with software to allow members to access that information, download and print a "report" with all the members info.


In thinking about this a little more I realized we can do exactly this, without any custom software. It would simply require that we as members follow a few guidelines to make it work. In fact, this concept can be extended to other information (more later).

So, let me explain what I'm thinking. First a couple of terms, so we're all on the same page.

The POG forum software consists of several "topic forums" (just called forums for short). This one is "General Chit Chat". Others include "Greasy Jeans ..." etc, etc.

Within each forum there is 1 or more threads.
Each thread will have one or more posts, made my POG members.

To make this work, we would do the following

1. Chose a forum that is appropriate for the "Resource Guide", or have Jim or an admin create one.

2. Start a new thread titled "Resource Guide" or appropriate title.

3. Every member who chooses to be "listed" in the resource guide is responsible for posting and maintaining their own "post".

4. We would define a template of what information should be in each post for consistency (more later). This would include things like name, address, phones, email, facilities, etc.

5. As mentioned in #3, each member would enter their own post, containing the information as defined by the template we decide.

6. If the information changes, or is out of date, the user would EDIT their own post.

7. If the user choses to no longer be listed, they would DELETE their own post.

8. If the member decides to quit POG and their post is still there, then Jim or an admin would have to DELETE that post.

9. NO COMMENTS or DISCUSSION would be posted in this thread, only resource entry posts. (This is absolutely key)



So, what does this give us.

1. a single thread that we have everyone's information that used to be contained on Dales member map (minus the map), that only POG members can access.

2. This is easily printed out by anyone who needs a hard-copy version. The forum software allows 10 posts per page, so let's say we have 150 users post their information, you would have a 15 page booklet with everyone's info. Print as often as you like or need.

3. By following a well defined template (this needs to be carefully worked on before we start), this would allow me (or anyone else that is comfortable doing network programming) to access the thread, parse the information, and to perhaps generate a PDF file for Jim to post which is sorted, printed nicer etc. This wouldn't be available at the start, but is something that could happen, if we follow the guidelines.

4. We would also use the "tags" feature of the forum, to allow easy searching of tags to find these resource threads, since they will generally NOT be at the top of the "new posts" list.

If this works, we could potentially dedicate other threads as resource information. For example we might have

* Server providers list
* RV park recommendations
* RV parks to avoid, or service places to avoid.
* Great places to visit
* Great places to eat

The key to any of these resource threads working is that there are no discussions in these threads. It's our discussion and thread creep that makes it hard to get at some of the really valuable information in this site.


So, what does everyone think? For this to work, it has to be member driven, and member supported. It costs nothing, and requires no work on Jim's part or his "geek team". It simply requires discipline on our part.

Ray

Sounds real good to me Ray. I hope we could get it started right away.

Another way and clearly not as good as your way would be for everyone to put their contact information in their signature.




JIM

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I agree with Ray's suggestion.

As members we can put anything we want in our post, including contact information, our address, description of bus and toad, and what we may have to offer, such as parking or ability to help with repairs.

I would just want some assurance this would not find its way across the internet. Most of my info is already somewhere out in the public domain for anyone that takes the time to look but I just don't want all that we could post for the benefit of POG members spread around.

Having said that, I would also like to expand what is posted to include a little about our members such as their jobs, or hobbies, or special interests.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

I don't know how it could be accomplished, but it would be best if the only way you had access to the information discussed is if you participated and included your information.

Meaning no free rides for lurkers.



JIM

[phorner]

Sounds like a great idea.

I'm all for it! :D

[michaeldterry]

Great idea, Jim! I hope we can get some consensus and get this started sooner rather than later!

[PLSNTVLE2]

Just to add to Ray's great idea, we sort the members by geographical order.

[Kevin Erion]

Sounds like a great idea, and only the Members can access the info, this eliminates the free lurkers!

[Devin W]

Since this is obviously a long standing topic it may have already been discussed, but I wonder if there is a way to do it with our profiles. Once we edit our profiles with the info there must be a way to print a member or profile list. Our profiles are also easy for us to maintain -- easier than searching through a thread with a possible 150 posts for our post.

Still, the suggestion that Ray made is the one that could be done most quickly. Do the signatures print out when printing a thread? On one hand it could be good if info is contained there, but it is also creates a formatting issue since there is so much variation.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I think the listing needs to be sorted by state. If each of us puts our state plus a general location within the state, even if the listing is not printed in any specific order it will not take much to find someone located in the area we are looking.

I like the idea of amassing the information under our profiles, but a lot of people are trying to remain anonymous for some reason. I know I have a hard time trying to remember who a person is when their site name is some code or partial name.

[rahangman]

I am all for this, as Jim C mentions, thread creep often makes for long long searches and redundant reading. My thought might be a Spread Sheet thingy that would allow one to "sort columns/rows, that would contain, bus info, address, state, etc allowing a simple click to prioritize the category one wants to look at, such as if you are in Colorado and want to see who all is in Colorado,etc. Just my 3cents worth (inflation!)

[Ray Davis]

The limitation of a thread based approach is there is no way to sort. Threads are sorted in post order, and there's no way to enforce order.

To get things sorted requires that the info be collected, sorted, and redisplayed. Now, that is doable, but only in a couple of ways.


1. hard way, you print the stuff, and cut the individual posts into strips and put them in a notebook, after sorting by hand.

2. custom software on the forum, which was my previous solution. But, that requires that I sit down and write this stuff. It's non-trivial, and at the moment, I don't have time to do this.

3. externally. As touched upon in my first post, IF we were to follow a well-defined template, then from an external program I could basically walk through the thread, capture the data, and then once I have the raw data, I can put it in a database, or do other processing to get a sorted, nicer display for printing.

3a. An example of this is I could fairly easily write an iPhone app that queries the thread, parsed the data, then just showed you the info in a nice way. Obviously, not everyone has iPhones, so it's not a great solution for everyone.

The thread based approach is easy, and can be implemented almost immediately, after simply deciding upon a template. Actually we could go forward without any template, but that would make future expansion much more difficult to impossible.

As far as security, this is just a thread in this forum. It has the same safety as all other threads in this forum, no more no less. Everyone who has read access to these threads will have access to it's contents. It's possible that if this information was put in a new forum, that permissions could be set such that guest members do not have access. The forum software does have the ability to limit access to forums. Specific threads is not really supported to my knowledge.

The problem, I think with the profile approach, is there is no way to:

1. Limit to only those who want to particpate.
2. Print them all fairly easily. With the thread, you'd have to go through and print each page of the thread. With a profile based approach, you would have to walk through several hundred profiles and print those. Not practical.

Ray

[Orren Zook]

Since most of us are now using some type of GPS to navigate around the country maybe adding the latitude and longitude coordinates to the listing would be of help, after all the census bureau is now using them.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

If I had to vote on this now, I would vote for Ray's suggestion as proposed in post one. This sounds doable in the near future and we have nothing, now that the map is gone.

Ray is willing and able to do the deed now. Other models can be debated at leisure forever without anyone in trouble on the road being let down.




JIM:)

[Ray Davis]

I'm sorry Jim, how is my suggestion different than post #1? My last post was simply meant to clarify some points on post #1.

The things that need to be done are:

1. determine a template, if we want to have future capabilities. We really want to discuss what each person should put in their post anyway.

2. Create the thread.

3. Let everyone post their info.


Part of the beauty is there is essentially no-work to this. Just some prep.

Ray

[Ray Davis]

Orren,

GPS coordinates are a perfect example of what to include in the template. With external programming, we could use these coordinates to put things up on a map.

Rayr

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

No Ray, I'm sorry if you took my post the wrong way. I clearly meant to say that you have a good idea to go with, rather than trying to make everyone else happy with all the ideas that you are saying are not practical.

I'm behind you all the way.


JIM:)

[Denny]

Ray
Great idea. This is something that is greatly needed as POG grows. The sooner the better! Thanks for your hard work

[Ray Davis]

Anyone want to work with me to define the needed template, and we'll move on this ...

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I think one thing that is critical is this thread when started is to have no posts other than those which use the template.

Ray, I can help if you want. I assume by template you mean a listing of the data to be posted.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

I'm willing to help Ray, but not sure if I'm qualified?

JIM

[Jamie Bradford]

Ray

I think you have a great idea! I have wanted to have a resource such as this since I joined POG.

I would be very happy to help in any way I can with this.

I agree that it needs to be "discussion free" so that the facts stay focused.

Please keep in touch on this .....................

Thanks

Jamie

[Ray Davis]

I think one thing that is critical is this thread when started is to have no posts other than those which use the template.

That certainly is the desired goal. If we want to be able to post process the data by program at some later date, any differences in data format make it really hard to handle programatically.


Ray, I can help if you want. I assume by template you mean a listing of the data to be posted.

Exactly, a list of what data we'd like to see and the format that we expect it to be put on the page like:

Name: Ray Davis
Address: 21052 Paseo Vereda
Address2:
City: Lake Forest
.
.
.
GPS: ...
Tools ...
Capabilities
Comments


There are several things that I think we'd like all listings to include, and there are probably a few optional as well. As long as we all post in the same fashion, it makes it easier in the long run.

Ray

[bonhall41]

Sounds like a great idea. Let me know if I can help.

Bonnie

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Ray,

Here is how I would set up the info:

Name: Ray Davis
POG posting name:
Address: 21052 Paseo Vereda
Address2:
City: Lake Forest
Phone:
Cell:
FAX:
Coach type, year, converter
GPS Coordinates: ...
Tools ...
Capabilities
Parking?
Comments: (Special directions, skills relative to bus or conversion, area features)

I think we need to know what name the member posts under. I think the spouse's name should be included if possible. I know people are reluctant to post some sensitive information such as cell numbers, but perhaps that could be done by spelling out the numbers or adding dashes between numbers to discourage anyone from harvesting them.

Also we need to be flexible if possible. We each have a cell, but the bus has one permanently installed and always on so when we are on the road to, from or at a rally we can be reached.

Even if a member cannot help with a mechanical problem personally if they have knowledge of or can recommend a local shop they trust we should note that in the comments section.

[Jim Skiff]

Ray,

At this point I see a thread for Resources as you suggested.

Within this thread at the top is a thread explaining the format we would like information shared in.

Below this are threads for each state except Hawaii so members can easily locate others geographically.

Let me know and I will begin creating the threads.

Great suggestion Ray!

[dale farley]

This is definitely something that we need. The only thing I would add to Jon's list is that maybe we should consider having the location as the first entry. That way, anyone with difficulties could see who is in the area a little faster. These comments are assuming we are entering the data in a thread and won't have sort capability. I will be glad to assist in any way I can with this project.

I assume this means Dale J. is no longer going to maintain his original map. I am sorry to hear that!

[truk4u]

Suggest we change "Ladies Forum" to Member Locations since it hasn't been used in over a year, making it easy to find and usable quickly.

[dale farley]

I see I was composing my thread (#27) while Jim S. was posting (#26) a solution to the problem I mentioned about the location of each member.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Is there a way to make the post ONLY accept the information needed to fill in the FIELDS or form we need to have filled?

That would cut out someone unknowingly post a comment in these threads? Not that I would do that you know.:eek:

I think it is a great idea. Thanks Ray for the original suggestion and for everyone else's input into making this thing work.

Gary S.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

If someone posts other than the needed information Jim Skiff or Tom should just delete the post or move it.

In the title block above every member can put the city in which they reside.

We will need provision, probably in the comment section for people to note their winter or summer address if it differs from the main address.

[Ray Davis]

Just to be clear, Jim I assume you meant a Resource "forum" (not thread), which there would be multiple threads, one for each state.

So, just being thorough here, there are a couple of downsides to the multi-thread (multi-state approach).

The biggest being printing the information. Now, instead of one thread where perhaps you have to print N times for N pages of thread, you have to perhaps have as many as 30 or so threads to go through and print. Granted, these threads would be smaller (less people posting per thread), which would be better.

But, I just wanted to bring up that caveat.

Ray

[Ray Davis]

Jon,

Your list looks pretty reasonable. My only suggestion now would be formatting, such that it's laid out in a way that is conducive to external processing by program.

I'll try to get to that today as time allows.

As to the multi-thread approach, I don't have a strong feeling. Certainly works a bit better for traveling in a certain area. A little harder to handle via external program (I'm always thinking of that), but it can be done, so most likely that's the best approach.

Ray

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Single thread for me. Having a thread for every state has all the issues Ray raises, but for folks with multiple addresses it just gets cumbersome.

Ray, I don't know diddly about external processing, but any layout works for me as long as we allow space for multiple addresses and pho9nes. I also forgot to add email addresses for those whose phones or computers get emails. We have had many instances where someone made a post or sent emails when they needed some help.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I'd hate to see this topic die. We need to create a list with member's names, contact information and available resources for folks needing help, a place to park, advice on a specific area and any other reason to speak to a fellow member.

Can someone create a template or list sequence so members who wish to allow other members to contact them or request help can do so?

[chtree]

Jon,

I think that FMCA has something similar to that but I can't remember which issue it was in. I'll see if I can look back online and find it. It listed members names, tel. #s , and what they could provide.

Chris

[chtree]

Jon,

I believe FMCA's plan is called the STOPPING SPOT FELLOWSHIP PROGRAM. I think it was published in the Jan. issue. Its a list of members that are willing and have facilities for a scheduled stop.

Chris

[Ray Davis]

Sorry. I've been buried at work and wasn't able to get to defining a template. looks like Jim got it going however. wow haven't been to the forum in a week and log in to find all this!!