Slide Seal

[JIM KELLER]

Scott and Cyndie, The Comic Geniuses are getting ready to operate ! Keep your cell phone handy.

[parksincpp]

On standby...................

[Jamie Bradford]

How is it going? :rolleyes:

We are thirsty for updates...........

Jamie

[rfoster]

We are still eating. Can't work till we are full.

Will keep you posted. Conditions also have to be right. As in air temp.

[rickdesilva]

What's going on in Masaryktown? Are you still drinking wine or replacing seals?

[rfoster]

Well we had to take a little time out to ride down to Parliament to check on Cousin Tony and Cousin Rick's bus.
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"COUSIN TONY'
He takea carea stuff.
Well then we found this guys bus
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A POG Guy?
Well Cousin Tony say he takea good carea of Rickys bus
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<a href="http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g31/parkwayautoofbristol/?action=view&current=CIMG2024.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g31/parkwayautoofbristol/CIMG2024.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[rfoster]

Rick: Cousin Tony said not to worry - he will have all fixed up as soon as his brother (I can't remember his name, but it ended in a vowel) gets back from procratinating or incubating or some kind of baiting, maybe fish baiting - no that's not it.

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[rfoster]

We drunk a lot of wine too. I will post the activities as soon as we eat more, or when we are not eating.

[rickdesilva]

Its comforting to know that my POG brothers are watching out for me as I am up north freezing trying to make a living. Now that you are overseeing the upgrade process and appears you are in control, I guess Cousin Tony won't need the Horses head.:)

[JIM KELLER]

On standby...................

Scott and Cyndie, Thanks for all your help. We did it ! More to come.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I am back home after being worked like a borrowed mule by the King. I believe tool man Jim Keller, King Roger and I can say slide seals can be easily replaced by two men and I will be drafting a how-to article.

I should note that despite my position against slides, anyone looking at or considering a slide coach should not be afraid of one because from what we three saw and experienced. They are not so complex that the average person cannot work on them. We needed help from Scott to get us out of trouble (due to poor Prevost maintenance manual information), but apart from that the entire project went very well.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

I am back home after being worked like a borrowed mule by the King. I believe tool man Jim Keller, King Roger and I can say slide seals can be easily replaced by two men and I will be drafting a how-to article. I should note that despite my position against slides, anyone looking at or considering a slide coach should not be afraid of one because from what we three saw and experienced. They are not so complex that the average person cannot work on them. We needed help from Scott to get us out of trouble (due to poor Prevost maintenance manual information), but apart from that the entire project went very well.


Damn it Jon, where where you 3 guys last year, when I needed ya !!!!:( :D Not so complex indeed :rolleyes:

Gary S.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I don't want to minimize the learning process. The things we found troublesome were not covered in the shop manual or told to Roger in advance despite the fact he spoke to a lot of people about how to prepare.

Also there are some tools not readily available to most people such as a port-a-power that made part of the job incredibly simple. Without Jim Keller's vast tool collection we would have had a more difficult job.

Beyond that by making some errors we learned how to do it in a trouble free manner and the article will cover in detail what not to do as well as what to do.

Editorial comment: Slide seals, air bags, hub seals etc. are all routine maintenance items and having now done every one of them I can say the only reason those of us who do our own maintenance do projects such as these is because Prevost has gotten way beyond unreasonable in their pricing. I learned recently that Prevost now charges $4400 to replace all air bags. To put that in perspective they have $1200 (approx.) in material costs allowing them $3200 for about 10 hours labor. For slide seals they charge around $4500 to $4800 for the small rear seal, of which $2095 is the cost of the seal allowing about $2400 to $2700 for about 10 man hours of labor.

Even if you do not want to repair your own slides for example at the very least shop around for a facility that will do the work for a reasonable fee.

[garyde]

Hi Jon. Ive watched mine replaced so many times now, I would be very interested in a step by step article on the replacement of a seal. Also, where to purchase the correct seal for my Coach.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Gary,

We three have saved sections of the seal. I intend to send sections out to seal manufacturers to get quotes. The seal consists of 2 extrusions, the inflatable portion and the wiper. They interlock and there is also an adhesive bond making the seal a single unit.

The quest for pricing is to find a more reasonable price for such a simple product, and to perhaps set up a way to supply seals to POG members. I don't think any of us three want to be in the business of selling and installing seals, but we do recognize that as coach prices continue to fall on used coaches the Prevost costs begin to represent a huge percentage of the coach value just for slide seals. That is what we want to address.

[GDeen]

I spent a couple of days at Prevost FW last month with my bus. One of the projects they had going at the time was a slide top re-built. The techs showed me the upgrade plans and what they were doing. Quite an extensive (and expensive) project.

On one hand, I was very impressed with a number of the techs they had working there. The night crew foreman was particularly helpful in showing me things on coaches they had in the air. The main guy on my job was responsive to my concerns and understood cost was an issue. He was also willing to help me understand things under the coach. They did become nervous with me constantly under the bus poking around and asked that I limit my time under there to necessary review of work. That is fair given the potential liability.

On the other hand, I could see work languishing if it wasn't being bird dogged. Not necessarily as part of a scheme, rather because they have so much going on in there. Hours here and there deciding on the need for a part, finding the part, getting back to that particular task, being one example. Some of the guys were also less efficient than others.

Overall I was impressed with the facility and the work product. Would never just leave my bus there though for work on my dime. Just too many ways for that to become very costly. They were very good though since I was on site at informing me of the estimated cost of things on my list, and suggesting I might be better served to do it myself if that was what I wanted to do. Very courteous and straightforward about how much things would cost to do which allowed me to make informed decisions about what I did and didn't want them to work on.

[garyde]

The problem with the previous seals in my coach seem to be with the manufacturer.
The seals were too thin. I hope the new seals are thicker and less vulnerable to breaking.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Gary,

My original thought (and Roger's) was the inflatiable portion was little more than a thin bicycle tube cross section. That is probably a good analogy, but after seeing the failure on Roger's seal and the fact the inflatible portion is not in contact with the slide room until it is inflated I am not so sure having a robust design is important.

Roger's seal failed at the point where it flattens. The flexing due to inflation and then being under a vacuum causes the flexing to occur at a single point along its length and that is where it failed. The failure could have been caused by over inflation due to a poor pressure regulator, but the real culprit is the seal (like our air bags) is only flexing at one point and that is where it split. The split was about 15" long.

I saw no indication the inflatiable section had ever been pinched or physically damaged and my guess is age got to it just like all other rubber components like tires, air bags, brake diaphragms, etc. We all agreed however the Prevost system and seal may be needlessly complex, but short of re-engineering the entire system that is not going to change.

[grantracy]

I have HWH slides in my bus..they were installed by HWH and so far have been pretty much trouble free. There is no inflatable seal on my slides, they fit flush to the bus..I added a thin weather stripping to eliminate some minor wind noise. I guess my question is are the inflatable seals necessary?

[merle&louise]

Granvil,

I too have HWH slides on my coach. I have inflatable seals, and I feel that without them I would get water inside my coach when it rains. Regardless if I was in motion or parked. I have a gap when my seals are deflated (when the room extends or retracts) to where you can see daylight. I haven't had any leaks during rainy periods. And I too am very satisfied with my slides and the seals.

I would like to see how your slides functions without seals. That must be a neat installation.:D

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I am not sure an inflatible seal is necessary if the seal (like our car door seals) keeps out water. The consequences of water entering the coach can be measured in hundreds of thousands of interior work if moisture creates mold and mildew.

Parliament Coach is repairing a Marathon that had slide seal leaks and the entire interior had to be gutted.

With an inflatible seal the slide retraction and extension is a complex series of events including seal deflation, seal vacuum, pin retraction, slide room motion, pin extension, seal inflation, etc. To do that cycle there are numerous valves and controls as well as a control system that senses completion of the various portions of the cycle.

With a non-inflatible seal it is a much simpler control system and in fact we three looked at a plastic coach with non-inflatible seals and the set up looked very good. We aren't the engineers so these thoughts are nothing more than me shooting from the lip.

[garyde]

The seals keep the Coach pressurized inside. Not like an airplane but pretty tight. It is recommended that the toll window be opened prior to opening the slide beause of the suction and you can actually feel the air coming in the window when the slide is opening.
When driving with a broken seal, i will ge a fine residue of dust in the Coach so it is definately needed.

[truk4u]

There are a gazillion plastic slides out there and they don't use air seals. I had an 02 and 04 Country Coach and they never leaked. They were a PIA with hydraulic problems on the 02 and electric motor problems on the 04, but they were dry in rainy weather.

[rfoster]

Gary De: Curiosity is getting me- What life expectancy has Prevost indicated on the seals they have replaced for you?. And is there another way or means of measuring the life expectancy of an inflatable seal. My slide has no obvious counter although there may be one as part of the logic controllers.

I will assume that my coach went into service in 2003 and has 7 years of wear & tear on it although it would seem cycles would play a part in the life due to the design.

Many and Much thanks to Jim Keller and Jon W. for their assistance and help in the replacement of my rear slide seal. And thanks to Scott and Cyndie Parks for their help via the phone. Scott sure came in handy and at the right time!!

Plus the seal has 750 plus miles and and number of in and outs and is performing spot on.

[garyde]

I have never been told the expected life of a seal. From past experience, its not long. However, Prevost keeps changing vendors and the design from its original ( Scott has said the original seals had to be glued together)
My living room slide lasted until 2008 which puts it at 6 years, but I'm not the first owner so it may have been replaced one or more times prior to me owning the Coach. I am on the 3rd seal for the bedroom, and it has lasted about 3 years so far.
It seems to me, they should have a method of repairing these seals instead of replacing them, it certainly seems like it could be accomplished with the right glue and tools.
The other thing that bothers me is the original engineering of these inflatable seals, if your putting air into them and drawing air out of them , how does that effect their long term viability. Its not like a bicycle tube which you keep inflated all the time.

[merle&louise]

Gary De: Curiosity is getting me- What life expectancy has Prevost indicated on the seals they have replaced for you?. And is there another way or means of measuring the life expectancy of an inflatable seal. My slide has no obvious counter although there may be one as part of the logic controllers.

I will assume that my coach went into service in 2003 and has 7 years of wear & tear on it although it would seem cycles would play a part in the life due to the design.

Many and Much thanks to Jim Keller and Jon W. for their assistance and help in the replacement of my rear slide seal. And thanks to Scott and Cyndie Parks for their help via the phone. Scott sure came in handy and at the right time!!

Plus the seal has 750 plus miles and and number of in and outs and is performing spot on.

Roger,

My front seal is the original; it has never been changed. It does not leak air and it keeps water and dust out. I spoke to a tech at Seal Master Corp., Kent, Ohio (manufacturer of my seals) and he said that 12 years old was a long time for a seal to last. He of course touted the quality of their seals. I changed my bedroom slide seal (painter knicked it with a grinding wheel) in Feb. 2006, so it has lasted 4 years so far.

It seems odd that Prevost and Newell engineers would build a slide out using air seals if it could be done like the plastic coaches not using an air seals. Could they be doing it only to generate revenue? I really don't think that they would build a slide designed to give their customers trouble! So that leads me to believe that the seals are a very necessary part of the slide room concept.

Just my .02

[parksincpp]

Your welcome for the help/phone conversation/coaching. My pleasure. I think it's great you guys did this repair. I'm just sorry I missed the party. The drinking, the eating, the field trip etc. It sounded like you had a whole lot more fun than I do at work doing repairs. I've been at the Nashville branch for the last three days of the week and am just now seeing your posts. Glad to see it worked out.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I did not want to post how important Scott was to us in this process, but since he has posted I suppose Prevost is OK with him providing help.

He helped us at a critical moment.

We followed the Prevost shop manual for slides that Roger had. We were attempting to prevent the pins from engaging. Roger was in the bedroom operating the slide. Jim was standing outside relaying the messages and I was laying on my back in the second bay pushing on the button clearly shown in the shop manual to prevent the pins from extending. Unfortunately the button I pushed caused the pins to extend and the slide room was partially extended. The pins had extended against the glass. Roger could see the glass flex.

In case anyone is unaware, the technical terms expressed when stuff like that happens is "oh shit!"

Roger called Scott, and after some confusion between Roger, Scott and me we got the information we required to retract the pins from Scott and the rest of the project went very well. In the article that will be posted we explain how not to get in the mess we got ourselves into. Without Scott's help Roger would not be happy with us.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

I NOW feel a little better about all the trips up to Prevost Ft. Worth, to let them work on my slide issues. If they break it ( Prevost ) they pay for the fix. Luckily nothing ever was actually broken, it just took a number of tries to get the problems solved. And believe me, they bent over backwards fixing my issues, more than several times.

Everything looks good and fixed now, and Peg and I are happy campers. :)

Gary S.

[Jim Skiff]

Many thanks to Roger, Jim and Jon for this contribution!

Click here to read the article. (http://www.prevostownersgroup.com/public/index.cfm?fuseaction=articles.view&id=9320&publicationtype=Articles)

[merle&louise]

Great article Jon, Jim, & Roger thanks for all of your efforts. I know that this will be a great help to slide owners in the future.

[travelite]

Jon, Jim, & Roger,

Great article. Once all the prep was done, how difficult was it to actually install the air seal? Did you have excess material that needed to be evenly distributed? Did you need to stretch the material at the corners? Did you partially inflate the seal to check for kinks before completing the install? Did you temporarily adhere/clip the seal as you maneuvered and distributed it over the entire opening? Anything else about this step that we need to know?

[rfoster]

David: The seal is actually "preformed" to fit the slide opening. I assume part of the high cost of the replacements seal is because of the fitted radius corners that appear to be pieced (spliced) into the seal. The new seal has a pressure sensitive adhesive inplace with premask tape. We positioned the top two corners first ( scoring and peeling away enough of the premask to make it easy once in position to remove the premask tape completely in the top corners only. Then once positioned - making contact with adhesive in the top center and then halfing that again for the top. Then installing the air filler hose thru the side of the coach and continuing on to the bottom of slide deals - same drill -corners first then the center and then the sides. It was a simple take your time procedure. Just make sure the air fill hose lays in good and flat. After just hand pressure to set the seal to the frame we used a small wallpaper seam roller to mash it to the frame opening as uniformly as possible.

No streching required. I doubt that a fellow could strech this seal if he wanted to.

So far it is working great!, and I see no reason to expect it to change

[travelite]

Thanks Roger,

I appreciate the info. I can see how the preformed/radius corners would make the job easier. Was there a manufacturers name on the seal?

[garyde]

Great Article. What was the amount of time spent from bginning to end, the man hours. Also, my coach has a control box next to the valves. I believe the Prevost guys used the contol box to retract the pins and deflate the seal. Any info on that?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Gary,

All told we probably had 20 man hours, but you have to understand we were not looking for efficiency and for us it was more important to look at the best way to get the job done. It sounds silly but at least half the man hours spent related to getting the top angles off, something we now know can be done in an hour or less. I won't try to explain how three reasonably smart, sober guys could make such a project out of that, but we did.

Rogers coach also has a control box located next to the Norgrens, but sitting here thinking about how close we came to sending the pins through the glass let me assure you the method described in the article is foolproof. If you retract the pins as described from the room closed position with the aux air at zero nothing can accidently get damaged. We literally had the Prevost shop manual in hand, had all read it, verified the valves were as shown, and did what it said and still had the pins extend instead of retract. We did not want anyone else getting in trouble like that, hence the way we described to retract the pins.

Retracting the pins as described is a 5 minute procedure. If Prevost does it differently I'm sure that is OK, but with all the various slide designs our proposed method works for all and is foolproof.

We spent a lot of time talking and analyzing the steps we took and I think we all agree that the next time two of us do one we could have the time reduced to 12 man hours and eventually to 8 man hours. It is a far simpler job than originally expected. Our next step is to find a supplier for the seals.

[rfoster]

No manufactuer name on the seal or packaging. It came in a clear garbage bag all wadded up - just what you would expect a $2100.00 seal to come in.

We did inflate the seal for 24 hours prior to installation to ensure that it held air and did not leak down. That would be a big disappointment to find a new seal leaking air from a manufacturing defect.

We had a hard time staying focused on the seal replacement at the time because Jim Keller was taking us to a Mermaid Show the next day and Jon was getting all excited. Anyone every heard of WeekiWachi. It is a fresh water spring were Mermaids live -- some of them have lived there a long, long, time.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Poor Jim. He picked the Mermaid Show for entertainment but unbeknown to him the mermaids were mostly Medicare recipients. (No joke...one gal was 71 and she had one of the better bodies. The 79 year old mermaid had the day off).

The high spot of the process for me was it gave me an opportunity to kill a lot of dirt and grass (the kind you mow). During lulls in the excitement of removing and installing the seal we three took advantage of the Keller compound by exercising our firearms. I shot more bullets during my time at Jim's than I ever shot in my life, combined. We sampled Jim's big guns, saw how a 12 ga shotgun may be excessive for defending a coach, and we saw grass and paper fly as we blasted away at the target options Jim scattered around.

I think it is safe to say that if you need a slide seal replaced you will not lack for volunteer helpers if you provide entertainment and activities comparable to those provided by Jim. I think a slide seal replacement should be a part of the next POG rally and I am sure we three would be very happy to supervise and provide advice if there were sufficient incentives. I just don't think we are cut out for manual labor however.

[phorner]

Great job on an excellent article!

At first glance, it sure looked to me to be an intimidating task, (and I'm still not sure I would attempt it) but you have clearly demonstrated that taking your time, following step-by-step instructions, paying close attention to detail and having the necessary confidence can produce big dividends.

I would imagine having an even better understanding now of how the slide works is another benefit gained.

Congratulations on the success of your project! :)

[Seabyrd]

We have the HWH slides on our H3-45 and they're working very well.. we also had them on our 2 plastic coaches without any problems. HWH seems to do a good job.. Our seals are not inflated either.. We are thinking of replacing the seals and have been referred to www.cleanseal.com for replacement seals as ours are no longer available so they say. Cleanseal claim to have it all now for RV seals.. I don't know if they have the inflatable ones or not.
Look at the thousands of plastic coaches out there with HWH slides.. It appears to me they're doing a good job!!

.
I have HWH slides in my bus..they were installed by HWH and so far have been pretty much trouble free. There is no inflatable seal on my slides, they fit flush to the bus..I added a thin weather stripping to eliminate some minor wind noise. I guess my question is are the inflatable seals necessary?

[merle&louise]

I have the HWH slides on my Newell and they have worked very well over the last 5 years. The slides have inflatable gaskets. I can see daylight when my gaskets are deflated so I would think that having inflatable gaskets would be a necessity. I like my HWH slides.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I don't have slides, but after seeing how Roger's functions and how it is built I feel confident in saying Prevost has done it right.

They have a robust construction. The mechanism that moves the slides in and out keeps them perfectly aligned and there is a way to deal with a failure using hand tools. The seals are expensive, but what is important is that they are able to keep any moisture from entering the coach and that is critical. I suspect any coach (any type, regardless of who makes the slide) has to be protected agains unwanted water entry and the way the Prevost seal is installed and functions it does just that.

I am certain there are many ways to create slides and seals. I am certain they all work. I am equally certain once the Prevost slides are installed and their operation fine tuned they are going to work very well and with little trouble. This is coming from a guy that doesn't want slides, but now I can say it has nothing to do with concerns about their reliability or maintenance costs.

[merle&louise]

I found this website on the www.

http://www.sealmaster.com/

[Gary Carmichael]

Seems like most of the seals are for industrial apps, although they might could design a seal for slides, interesting. My slides are prevost and they are 5 years old. I have all the repair records for the bus and do not see that a replacement has been done. That said would the compressor run constantly to try to keep air in the seal that had a leak: which compressor? How would you know you had a leak? water, noise, dust I am new to this so excuse any stupid questions. thanks, Gary

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I'm not a slide expert, but I do know the slide seal has to be inflated to provide protection against the elements. The seal inflation pressure is extremely low, as in single digits and if it leaks the aux compressor will definitely have to run to maintain the pressure. If the leak is small it will cycle, but as the leak increases it will run more and more.

That introduces a problem non-slide coaches are not confronted with. Getting an aux system so tight that the compressor rarely runs is difficult. I have done it twice and both times I dedicated a serious amount of time chasing and repairing leaks. The more complex the coach, like my Elegant Lady, the more potential for leaks. The chassis of the bus also has areas of potential leaks, not including the slide seals so it becomes an ongoing effort that will test anyone's patience.

Add seals into the equation and the luxury of ignoring leaks goes away. As the aux compressor runs more frequently it is at risk of premature failure, but it also signals a leak and now the challenge becomes finding them. If they are in the seals I would isolate that circuit and add air and monitor how long it holds. That may require making a small apparatus that has a shut off valve and gauge that can be inserted in the seal supply hose and that might involve removing some interior trim to access that hose. If the seal has integrity and is leak free then to eliminate the need for relying on the aux compressor, it might suffice to add a manual shutoff in the system when the bus will be parked for extended periods. A check valve will also work, but it has to be placed so the seals can have a vacuum when the slides are retracted or extended.

When we replaced Roger's slide seal it was inflated and it held that pressure for at least a day with no loss of pressure so the seals if intact will not lose air.

As to the question about water, noise and dust, I think if you have those clues the seal has been leaking for quite a while. I suspect the best and earliest clue is an increase in the frequency of compressor running. Perhaps some slide seal experts can jump in here and share their experiences. The seals are easy to replace, but expensive so the best way to deal with them is to never do or allow anything that could cut or pinch them and once they leak to not hesitate to replace them before damage occurs.

[fixrim]

Guys I have a 2003 XLII with a slide issue, related to seal. My seal will not hold vacuum, and I had to short the switch that senses vacuum, otherwise, my slide would not work. I have now been running my coach like that for 9 months. I don't ever see daylight anywhere, and I have no drafts, and I have no leaks. In fact, if not for shorting the switch, I'd be unaware I have a slide seal issue. As such, I have been hesitant to get this repaired. First, I can't find anyone to repair (granted I havent looked that hard) that isn't Prevost. I have had some challenging experiences at Prevost in Dallas, so I don't take my bus there anymore.

Any suggestions or comments?

FWIW I have driven the coach about 25,000 miles since the failure, and we now have 228,000 miles on it.

[parksincpp]

Bob-

Please feel free to call me at the Mira Loma, CA branch 1-800-421-9958 M-F 7-3:30 and I'll help you out the best I can over the phone. There's a really good chance it may be the switch.

Scott

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Here's a simple answer. If it holds pressure, it will also hold vacuum. I would say Scott is right on target with his analysis.

If on the other hand it will not hold pressure, then it suggests the seal is bad.

[travelite]

Folks,

Over on WOG we're trying to source a pneumatic seal for our slide equipped coaches. Our buses use HWH slides but HWH is having difficulty with their air seal supplier. The story is that the supplier has been playing with the rubber composition and they released seals with an inferior mix. HWH has had to recall some seals and now there's a backlog of orders and no date on delivery. We have WOG members who need seals now. My question is, can anyone tell me the name of the vendor who provides Prevost with their slide air seals? I know it takes time to have a slide seal designed and manufactured, and by then HWH may have this all figured out; nonetheless, we'd really like to have a second source. Thanks.

[RussWhite]

Sealmaster provided the seals for the HWH slides on my '99 Newell. Maybe they can help you. Russ

[travelite]

Russ, Thanks, That's a huge help. Best,

[Jon Wehrenberg]

When we replaced the King's seal I took sections to see if I could find a supplier that would make them and sell direct to POG members. I was stopped dead in my tracks when I found different coaches have different seal dimensions and different inlet locations.

The Prevost seals are essentially 2 extrusions, the outer wiper portion into which is keyed the inner bladder or inflatible portion. I suspect there are numerous extruders of these shapes so the challenge is in finding a fabricator that can make 90 degree corners to the correct radius and then join the four straight sections to the four corners so the overall dimensions are correct. Then the hose needs to be located and bonded to the bladder. I seriously doubt that in any reasonable quantity the seals would cost over $2000 as they are currently priced. The fly in the ointment is the material must be correct for the application, and the supplier has to stand behind the seals. An expert on these types of materials would need to be a part of this.

I think the members of POG who have coaches with slide seals need to get togather, maybe creating a separate thread for a head count and discuss how to get a supplier for XX slide seals. It will not be without effort for the members to develop the necessary information. Slides will have to be retracted so dimensions can be established, including the location of the supply tube. but once this is done and a data base constructed to sort out the data I believe owners of Prevost, Newell, and Bluebird coaches can buy seals for less than their current price. Installing a seal, once the slide room is retractied is really quite easy. I think if any POG members want to pursue this that Roger, or Jim Keller or I would be willing to insert our two cents to help those who have never even considered this understand it is not a real big deal.

One of the benefits of POG is that people who have the same interests and problems can joiun forces and address those topics in such a manner that they are no longer problems but opportunities. This is one example.

[garyde]

According to their Web site, the seals come from the aircraft industry. I would also check with Valid.
Here's another company;http://www.trimlok.com/

[merle&louise]

David,

I tried buying a seal directly from SealMaster and they wouldn't sell directly to me. They said I had to buy directly from one of their suppliers (Newell).

I am sure that Newell would sell you a seal. Call Chuck Clark in parts. 1-888-9NEWELL.

Like Jon said it is not that difficult to change a seal.

Good Luck.

[travelite]

Tuga,

Thanks for the help. In fact yesterday I spoke with Chuck in parts - great guy, very helpful, and good prices too. The trouble is, I need to see if the Newell seal will fit the HWH-style air seal track that we have in our LXi Wanderlodges. I'm taking some measurements of my track and I'll call Newell Tech Support on Monday to see if they have any detailed numbers for their seal. Of course my seal is 480" around and the Newell seal is 495" so I'd have to cut it to fit and then use the 'splice kit' to connect the ends to form a loop. Do you know anything about the 'splice kit'? Chuck said it was a plate of steel, a nut insert, and a bolt, and that once spliced air can pass thru the spliced area and the seal can expand at the splice creating a weather tight seal. I'm mystified as to how this works! :) The backup plan is to gather 15 or so orders and approach Seal Master directly for a custom seal.

[RussWhite]

David,

I have ordered a seal from Newell in anticipation of replacing the one around my bedroom slide. As you noted, they come in only one standard length and you just cut to fit your opening. I will have extra left and would be glad to send you pictures or even a sample if you like. My undersatnding is that our seals glue in place. I like the sound of yours fitting in a track. I am doubtful however that the glue in type would work in your track, but who knows. I hope you can get enough folks interested to cut a deal for custom seals directily from SealMaster. Later, Russ ' 99 Newell

[Jon Wehrenberg]

The Prevost seal consists of 4 straight sections and 4 90 degree corners whose radius matches that of the slide and the frame around the slide.

Those seals have 8 joints therefore that are bonded or vulcanized so the seal is one continuous rectangular loop. The seal can be inflated and there will be no loss of air pressure so the bonded joints possess the same integrity as the seal itself. I would like to know how a seal without a bonded joint can work and how it handles the radius around the slide room. I am not saying it doesn't work, but I am suggesting if it does work as well it would be a simpler, cheaper alternative to the fabricated rectangle. I would also like ot know how the air inlet is secured.

[merle&louise]

David,

I will try to explain how the "one size fits all" seal works. The seal is cut to size and then the splice kit is used.
1. Glue the opening in the end of the seal with super glue.
2. Fold it over once
3. Put the folded seal end in between the bolt and the clamps.
4. Tighten down the bolt which will tighten the clamps around the seal end.
That's it - simple!

Jon,

I can't explain how the one piece seal works around the corners; it just does! The corners of my slideroom are rounded and the seal just seats up to it. The advantage here is that it is one piece of rubber seal; no seams.

Newell has made a few sliderooms that are S shaped at the bottom right hand corner. I don't know if those have the "one size fits all" seal or not. These sliderooms are really weird looking; but they work.

I would be glad to show you mine at POG 10. I can see daylight from the inside of my coach when the seal is deflated; but no daylight is visible when the seal is inflated.

[merle&louise]

Here is a picture of one with the S type slideroom. You can barely see the outline of the rear slideroom. It looks like they had to make it that way so it wouldn't interfer with the radiator.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Tuga, how and where does the Newell attach the air supply line?

But now I understand they do not make a loop but in fact have and open ended loop so I presume the ends meet beneath the slide. So this begs the question as to why a Prevost seal cannot be applied in the same fashion. I guarantee I could find a rubber extruded that will sell the material direct. Especially if it works and if the issue of attaching the supply line can be resolved. I tend to agree about the corners based on what I have seen of the slide seals I have been involved with.

[merle&louise]

Jon,

Here is a picture of my rear slide in 2006 when my painter nicked it with his grinding wheel.

You are correct, there is one open end to the loop and the other end is glued closed. The air supply tube is connected thru the wall and into the wheel well. I can not remember why the air supply tube is outside on this picture it seems like it should be threaded thru to the wheel well.

[travelite]

RussWhite, Thank you for your generous offer. I'll send you a PM.

Tuga, I'm beginning to understand. It seems that one end is factory glued and the other end is cut to length, glued, and clamped. It also appears that the ends are positioned at the bottom of the slide. This is where it gets fuzzy for me. How do you achieve a weather tight seal where the clamp is placed? How big is the clamp? Do you position the clamp adjacent to the slide or does it get tucked in somewhere? Thanks so much for your help.

[merle&louise]

RussWhite, Thank you for your generous offer. I'll send you a PM.

Tuga, I'm beginning to understand. It seems that one end is factory glued and the other end is cut to length, glued, and clamped. It also appears that the ends are positioned at the bottom of the slide. This is where it gets fuzzy for me. How do you achieve a weather tight seal where the clamp is placed? How big is the clamp? Do you position the clamp adjacent to the slide or does it get tucked in somewhere? Thanks so much for your help.

David,

The end of the seal is positioned at the bottom of the slide in the center of the slideroom. When I get to Austin, we can retract my slideroom and take a look at the clamped part. It has been 5 years since mine was done and to be honest I can not remember exactly how it begins and ends. The clamp is small, I remember that. The clamp is screwed directly into the wood frame that the seal sits in. The beginning may be laid over the clamp to form a good seal, I just can't remember.

I think Russ is going to change his bedroom seal pretty soon, maybe he can explain it better than I can. Russ, are you planning on attending the Austin POG 10 rally? Maybe you could do a little seminar on changing seals!

[Jon Wehrenberg]

If you guys are going to do show and tell at Austin perhaps we can convince you to let all interested see how things are done on other slides. So far based on what I am learning here the difference between the Prevost slides and the Newell slides is the seal does not have bonded in corners, nor is it a complete loop.

The differences may not be important and if the location of the air supply tube can be resolved owners of Prevost slides may have a much less expensive alternative to the fabricated, closed loop seal. One difference of significance however is that the Prevost seal comes with a double sided tape for adhesion to a stainless steel mounting surface that completely surrounds the slide opening. There is no way to screw the seal end in place unless someone is willing to drill holes in their coach.

[travelite]

David,

I have ordered a seal from Newell in anticipation of replacing the one around my bedroom slide. As you noted, they come in only one standard length and you just cut to fit your opening. I will have extra left and would be glad to send you pictures or even a sample if you like. My undersatnding is that our seals glue in place. I like the sound of yours fitting in a track. I am doubtful however that the glue in type would work in your track, but who knows. I hope you can get enough folks interested to cut a deal for custom seals directily from SealMaster. Later, Russ ' 99 Newell

Hi Russ,

Thank you very much for the short section of your slide seal. I received it in the mail yesterday. I'm very much indebted; if there's anything I can do for you don't hesitate to ask.

Best,

[rphollaender]

Has anyone used asource other than Prevost for a factory slide seal replacement?
many thanks
Rob

[d graham]

TRY DOUG AT EXCALIBUR COACH IN SANFORD FL NICE GUY DARRELL

[Sid Tuls]

Hey Darrell, nice to see another Thompson owner on POG!!!!!! I you would ever like to shoot the bull give me a call 559-901-6426 or sidtuls@yahoo.com

Thanks

Sid

[CAPT MOGUL & Sandy]

Darrell, It was great to see you again in Sanford a few weeks ago. Finally got to meet your wife and it was a pleasure. Sure hope that y'all will join us at a rally soon. For those of you that were at Shady Acres Campground in Mobile during a small oyster festival years ago, Darrell is the nice gentleman that brought each of us 5 lbs. of beautiful large shrimp. Thanks again for that Darrell. Your new Thompson XL11 D/S is beautiful!! Get out and enjoy it with the POG group one day soon. We are caravanning to Las Vegas (with a few stops in between) the end of September and would love for you to join us.
Sandy