Help! Allison transmission control problem!

[michaeldterry]

This evening, Vita and I went to the storage lot to take Evangeline for fueling in preparation for a trip to Chattanooga, TN this weekend. She started and aired up fine, but when I got ready to roll and punched the "D" pad on the transmission shift control pad - nothing!!! :eek: The reverse pad works, the "mode" pad works, but "D" is totally nonresponsive! Has anyone experienced this problem before and know of a "work around" method to get the bus to go into gear so we can roll?

I'm admittedly not mechanically inclined and don't know where to begin to troubleshoot this issue, but I suspect that the problem is in the keypad contacts. Does that make sense? :confused:

Because the bus is in a secure storage lot and won't go into a forward gear, I can't even drive it to a repair shop to have it diagnosed and repaired!

I'm on the verge of being in the doghouse big time with Vita and our daughter because this Chattanooga trip was a Christmas present to our daughter to take her and her best friend to Chattanooga in the bus to see her favorite comedian, Brian Regan (never heard of him before this!) Sunday night! Of course, Vita and I are seeing our favorite comedian, Ron White, at the same venue the night before (Saturday night).

So, I've got to work fast to solve this problem before I ruin the weekend with a broken bus! Can anyone provide some emergency guidance?

Thanks! :o

[dale farley]

Michael,

I assume you tried shutting the engine down and restarting to see if that made any difference. Also pull up and push down your emergency brake switch to make sure it is all the way engaged.

[Coloradobus]

Michael, sheepishly I will ask, did you place your foot on the brake pedal before you pushed the "D" on the tranny pad. Just a thought

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Several things prevent it from going into drive such as trying to shift on high idle, or if the temperature in the transmission is less than a certain value.

I suggest trying to shift at low idle after warming up the coach.

You also have the ability to read codes so if it still will not shift see if there are active codes which can be accessed and read from the keypad.

[Steve Bennett]

We have seen some of the pads that become stiff with cold weather. Try pressing very firmly in the center of the D with the coach @ low idle.

[merle&louise]

Michael,

The same thing happened to me about 2 years ago. I found that pressing down firmly and rolling my finger around on the "D" would get it to work. It did this 4 or 5 more times so I started looking for a new selector pad on eBay. They were expensive if I remember correctly, about $600 so I just kept looking trying to find one at a good price.

After a month of looking on eBay the problem disappeared! It has been 2 years and the selector has worked flawlessly! Go figure!

Hope rolling your finger on the "D" helps. Just keep messing with it, and it should work.

[michaeldterry]

Michael,

I assume you tried shutting the engine down and restarting to see if that made any difference. Also pull up and push down your emergency brake switch to make sure it is all the way engaged.

Dale - Yep, I shut down & restarted twice and also engaged a disengaged the emergency brake a few times making sure that the button was firmly pushed all the way down.

[michaeldterry]

Michael, sheepishly I will ask, did you place your foot on the brake pedal before you pushed the "D" on the tranny pad. Just a thought

Jim - yes, I was depressing the brake pedal throughout the process. <shrug>

[michaeldterry]

Several things prevent it from going into drive such as trying to shift on high idle, or if the temperature in the transmission is less than a certain value.

I suggest trying to shift at low idle after warming up the coach.

You also have the ability to read codes so if it still will not shift see if there are active codes which can be accessed and read from the keypad.

Jon - I'm certain that I had switched to low idle before trying to shift. In fact, I shifted successfully into reverse and moved the bus back a few feet and then tried to shift to Neutral and then Drive again. It went to Neutral with no problem, but would not respond when I pressed the "D" pad.

The ambient temperature outside at the time was about 41 degrees and I had warmed the engine up on high idle for several minutes.

I'm unfamiliar with how to read or interpret the codes you mentioned.

[michaeldterry]

We have seen some of the pads that become stiff with cold weather. Try pressing very firmly in the center of the D with the coach @ low idle.

Thanks Steve - I'm going to try again in the morning and hope to have better luck!

[michaeldterry]

Michael,

The same thing happened to me about 2 years ago. I found that pressing down firmly and rolling my finger around on the "D" would get it to work. It did this 4 or 5 more times so I started looking for a new selector pad on eBay. They were expensive if I remember correctly, about $600 so I just kept looking trying to find one at a good price.

After a month of looking on eBay the problem disappeared! It has been 2 years and the selector has worked flawlessly! Go figure!

Hope rolling your finger on the "D" helps. Just keep messing with it, and it should work.

Tuga - while trying to get it to shift today, I pressed the pad every way and from every angle I could think of, including "rolling" my finger on the pad while pressing firmly. I'm going to try again in the morning! Wish me luck!

[GDeen]

Michael,

Try the following link from the Prevost online Technical manuals site for transmissions. It has the procedure for pulling up codes on your shift pad. Also has some trouble shooting info and references to other technical documents that may be of help.

http://prevostparts.volvo.com/technicalpublications/pdf/pa1082-07.pdf

[Ray Davis]

Ken Z has had a similar problem at times. I believe it to be related to cold. I hope I am not misspeaking here, but I think it generally clears after things get warmed up.

Ray

[michaeldterry]

Michael,

Try the following link from the Prevost online Technical manuals site for transmissions. It has the procedure for pulling up codes on your shift pad. Also has some trouble shooting info and references to other technical documents that may be of help.

http://prevostparts.volvo.com/technicalpublications/pdf/pa1082-07.pdf

Thanks Gordon! I'm printing the pages at the link you posted right now (32 of them) and am taking them to the bus this morning for reference! Man, I love POG! It's worth every penny of the $500 annual dues that Skiffer charges me! :p

[michaeldterry]

Ken Z has had a similar problem at times. I believe it to be related to cold. I hope I am not misspeaking here, but I think it generally clears after things get warmed up.

Ray

Ray - I desperately hope you are right! :o

[merle&louise]

Michael,

Maybe this will help; hope so. Skiff only charges me $400/year:D

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ALLISON-TRANSMISSION-PUSH-BUTTON-SHIFT-SELECTOR-G4PB113_W0QQitemZ230413181175QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMo tors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item35a5b220 f7

[michaeldterry]

Michael,

Maybe this will help; hope so. Skiff only charges me $400/year:D

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ALLISON-TRANSMISSION-PUSH-BUTTON-SHIFT-SELECTOR-G4PB113_W0QQitemZ230413181175QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMo tors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item35a5b220 f7

Thanks Tuga! Actually my keypad unit looks more like this one: Allison Gen IV Push Button Shifter / Pad (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/29541991-Allison-Gen-IV-Push-Button-Shifter-Pad_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2a03def5c5QQitemZ18 0453569989QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAcce ssories)

I went back to the bus this morning armed with the info from all the responses to this thread so far. Alas - no luck! I called W.W. Williams (a Detroit/Allison service facilty) in Atlanta and the guy there had me put the tranny into the code reading mode and read him what the screen showed. The good news is that there were no active codes. The bad news is that they can't get road service to me until late this afternoon. My guy at Apalachee RV thinks it may be a relay or solenoid (?) but can't help me further without me bringing the bus to him (and of course, it won't move). I'm not ready for a 60 mile tow, so I'll wait on the W.W. Williams road service and keep my fingers crossed!:rolleyes:

[wayne]

We are keeping our fingers crossed too!!

[Alek&Lucia]

Michael,

How about if you push "R" , roll your bus few feet back, then "N", and cross your fingers and push "D" and perhaps everything start working again.
Yes, release the Parking Break !

Alek

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Thanks Tuga! Actually my keypad unit looks more like this one: Allison Gen IV Push Button Shifter / Pad (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/29541991-Allison-Gen-IV-Push-Button-Shifter-Pad_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2a03def5c5QQitemZ18 0453569989QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAcce ssories)

I went back to the bus this morning armed with the info from all the responses to this thread so far. Alas - no luck! I called W.W. Williams (a Detroit/Allison service facilty) in Atlanta and the guy there had me put the tranny into the code reading mode and read him what the screen showed. The good news is that there were no active codes. The bad news is that they can't get road service to me until late this afternoon. My guy at Apalachee RV thinks it may be a relay or solenoid (?) but can't help me further without me bringing the bus to him (and of course, it won't move). I'm not ready for a 60 mile tow, so I'll wait on the W.W. Williams road service and keep my fingers crossed!:rolleyes:

Be cautious and do your homework when buying a part such as this through ebay.

The complete shifter module (the only way Prevost sells them) from Prevo is pt no 571543 $2299.00.

The ebay part no for the keypad is 29541991 with a buy it now price of $145.00.
That may be a good deal if it fits your shifter and is in fact what is giving you trouble, just be sure it will fit your application.
IMHO it is very unlikely that the key pad is at fault.

Also good for everyone reading this to remember that someone of us in POG had the unfortunate experience of getting their shifter module wet by allowing wash water to enter the slide window and soak the pad thereby causing it's untimely demise.



*

[michaeldterry]

Good news/bad news... bad news first - The mechanic/technician from W.W. Williams called me this afternoon and said he had researched my symptoms and it sounds like I need a new shifter module. His location did not have one in stock and the closest location that does is in Alabama. He's having the part air freighted in to arrive tomorrow and is having it delivered to his home. When it arrives, he will call me and arrange to come to Woodstock and put it in (he is in Atlanta - about 30 miles from me).

Now the good news - he told me that I could try using the blunt end of a writing pen to push hard on the "D" pad and sometimes that would work as a temporary work-around. I grabbed a pen off my desk, headed to the bus, started and warmed her up, then held my breath and used the pen to push the "D". After poking around (literally "poking it with a stick") a bit, it clicked into gear! Yea! To make sure it wasn't a one time fluke, I shifted to Neutral and then poked "D" with the pen again and it eventually went into gear! Success! Now I was feeling brave to I took her to get fuel and then brought her home to load for the trip to Chattanooga tomorrow. We will decide what to do about the W.W. Williams guy coming out tomorrow depending on what time the part arrives. If it arrives in time to still get us on the road before 4:00PM, we can make our commitment in Chattanooga tomorrow night. If the part arrives too late to get us safely on the road in time, I've decided to take my chances with the "pen poke" work around and have the shifter replaced next week after we return.

Once again, thank you to all our POG buddies who responded with info, advice, and suggestions! You're the best! :D

[Ray Davis]

Well, that's good news. Poke carefully, and I'll bet you're good for at least this trip!

ray

[Orren Zook]

Michael, Today I had a driver for a tour bus company tell me that many of their drivers regularly use a pen to shift gears and for that reason the membrane piece with the letters is replaceable on some newer shift pads instead of replacing the entire module. Sounds as if this may be a common practice with professional drivers.

[truk4u]

Michael,

Williams has a place in Acworth, just about 8 miles west of you off Hwy 92 at I-75 and the phone is (678) 574-9251. They suck with buses, I do buy parts there, but maybe they have a pad in stock and since they're so close to you, you could run over there and talk to them.

I was also going to mention that the pads will go bad if they get wet.

[michaeldterry]

Michael,

Williams has a place in Acworth, just about 8 miles west of you off Hwy 92 at I-75 and the phone is (678) 574-9251. They suck with buses, I do buy parts there, but maybe they have a pad in stock and since they're so close to you, you could run over there and talk to them.

I was also going to mention that the pads will go bad if they get wet.

Tom - W.W. Williams in Acworth was my first call yesterday, but they couldn't get to me because they were covered up with road service calls. It was them that referred me to the Moreland Ave. location. The tech that I'm working with there did a search for the part and the closest one he found was in Alabama (being air freighted in today). I'm getting ready to call him right now (he gave me his personal cell number) and check to see if he's gotten the part yet and while I'm at it, I'll ask about trying to replace just the pad first to see if that resolves it. Either way - we're leaving town around noon! :D

[truk4u]

OK, good, your on the right track. I hesitated to even mention Williams at Acworth and they probably blew you off when you mentioned bus, but they are close enough for a face to face when buying parts. I complained about their lack of bus support while we were at OKC, but didn't expect it to go anywhere.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Just a general comment...don't overlook charter coach operators who have a Prevost fleet. Especially the larger charter companies because they have their own inventories, mechanics and have skilled mechanics. We have one near us that does work on Prevost conversions.

[michaeldterry]

We made it to Chattanooga - no problem! In the RV park now finishing lunch and preparing to go explore a bit before heading to the Tivoli Theatre in the toad tonight to see comedian Ron White. The "pen poke" method of shifting worked like a charm! We even stopped at a Pilot Truck Stop and had Evangeline weighed by individual axle. She was full of fuel, a little over half full of fresh water and grey/black bilge (plus two teen girls, a hot wife, 2 small dogs, and an overweight driver). Also, we carry our golf cart style electric cart in the front bay. The weight ticket shows:


Steer axle - 15,340 lbs
Drive axle - 19,580 lb
Tag axle - 15,060 lbs
Gross Weight - 49,980 lbs


That's almost 4,000 lbs heavier than I thought she was! How do I find out if this weight is within the acceptable range for my specific coach/chassis? Also, shouldn't the tires be inflated/adjusted depending on the axle weight at each tire position?

Once again, I find myself asking for the POG braintrust to educate me! :o

I'm going to also post this as a new thread to keep these questions from getting lost in the thread creep of this one. I apologize in advance for the duplication!

[Jon Wehrenberg]

It is on a data plate, typically located next to the driver's seat. It will list individual axle weight limits and maximum gross weight.

Using those weights you now need to look up the tire pressures for each axle.

http://www.michelintruck.com/michelintruck/tires-retreads/load-inflation-tables.jsp

My guess is you are seriously overweight and should start considering how to bring those weights down to something near the limits for your coach, or recognize that you may have to adjust your driving habits to compensate for the additional stresses those excess weights impose on your air bags, brakes, bearings, etc.

[phorner]

Michael,

For what it's worth, my 1999 XLV shell Prevost Data Plate reads:

Front : 16,500
Drive : 20,400
Tag l: 12,000

GVWR: 48,900

[michaeldterry]

It is on a data plate, typically located next to the driver's seat. It will list individual axle weight limits and maximum gross weight.

Using those weights you now need to look up the tire pressures for each axle.

http://www.michelintruck.com/michelintruck/tires-retreads/load-inflation-tables.jsp

My guess is you are seriously overweight and should start considering how to bring those weights down to something near the limits for your coach, or recognize that you may have to adjust your driving habits to compensate for the additional stresses those excess weights impose on your air bags, brakes, bearings, etc.

Jon - you were correct with your guess. The data plate shows:


Steer axle - 14,600 lbs
Drive axle - 20,400 lbs
Tag axle - 12,000 lbs
Gross weight - 47,000 lbs


That puts me almost 3,000 lbs overweight! Ack! :eek:

On tire inflation table. are the weights listed per wheel or per axle? In other words, do I need to divide the numbers by two (for the steer axle and tag axle) and by four (for the drive axle) to get the weight per tire? I'm confuzzled! :confused:

Any ideas on how to shed weight? I'm already on a diet and have lost 18 lbs since December 14th on my way to losing 65 lbs. I don't think I have enough to lose to get Evangeline under weight, though! :rolleyes:

[phorner]

Unfortunately, some of the heaviest items can't be moved: generator, refrigerator, fuel tank, etc. so you will need to be creative with both your amount and placement of personal storage items. You can also opt to carry less than a full tank of fresh water while in transit.

Good luck.....

[Steve Bennett]

Michael, when you get a chance have the bus weighed in total. If the area around the scale is not perfectly level it will throw off the individual axle weights significantly. My guess is that your coach is not as heavy as those weights would indicate. If you find that the coach weighs in the 47K range, you could then drop the individual weights proportionally. It is also unusual to have the tag weigh as much as the front axle on a non-slide XLV. If that is accurate you may want to have your ride height checked.

[Kenneth Brewer]

"On tire inflation table. are the weights listed per wheel or per axle? In other words, do I need to divide the numbers by two (for the steer axle and tag axle) and by four (for the drive axle) to get the weight per tire? I'm confuzzled!"

The answer is yes; divide the axle weight you have in actuality by the number of tires on it. And in the case of the drive axle, you need to compare the result against the tire spec for duals, as the weight allowance for a tire mounted as one of a dual is less than as a single. I guess I saw these post thread later on, as I don't see where you state the exact tire model (and make, which I assume is Michelin), size, and rim diameter (I am sure in this case the rim diameter would be 22.5); be sure of what you have, XTA, XZA, XZA-1, and so on, and the size, all exactly as noted on the tire, when you consult the tire table.

If I have mistated anything here, I'm sure be corrected, so watch this thread. Good luck and I hope you can resolve things.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Important.........The tire pressure charts reflect single and dual wheels.

In the case of the tag and steer axles use the inflation pressures specified for single and on the drive axle use the dual wheel inflation pressures.

All are cold pressures, and as a practice I add 5 PSI just to provide a small cushion of added safety should I develop a leak I do not detect right away. If you have a tire pressure sensor system you don't need that extra pressure because you will get an alert before it becomes an issue.

Remember...if you run a tire at 20% less than the specified pressure you have effectively ruined it and driving on it could compromise safety. That is not me talking but the tire manufacturers themselves all stating that.

As to Steve's comment about ride height and the relation between it and any axle weight I do not understand how that impacts axle weights. We only have 3 ride height vales. One centrally mounted for the two front axle air bags, and one on each side (located ahead of the drive wheels in the wheel well) for the left or right rear. When the ride height valves are in the circuit (they are out of the air circuit when in the level low position) the rear ride height valves supply air flow to or remove air from the 3 air bags (2 drive one tag) on their respective sides. All three rear air bags per side have equal air pressure in them regardless of the height adjustment.

Having said that the drive axle air bags are different than the tag air bags on coaches I am familiar with. It is that diference that maintains the weight distribution in the rear between the tag and drive. The tag air bags are generally the same as the front air bags and are slightly greater in diameter (although described as the same) than the drive air bags. The only way to adjust the relationship of weights on our coach rear axles using the leveling / ride system is to use varying size air bags as Prevost has already done.

There has been a misconception in the past that the ride quality on our coaches can be adjusted firmer or softer by adjusting air bag pressures. That is not the case. Using the ride height valves brings our buses to a specified height by adding or exhausting air from the air bags until the bus reaches the set height. The air pressure increases or decreases based on the loads each set of air bags must carry. A bus with a heavy front for example is going to take a lot of air pressure to rise to the correct ride height, or less if the front end is relatively light.

In the case of the 3 rear air bags on each side they all share the exact same pressure because they are all interconnected when thye system is in the road or driving position.

[michaeldterry]

I guess I saw these post thread later on, as I don't see where you state the exact tire model (and make, which I assume is Michelin), size, and rim diameter (I am sure in this case the rim diameter would be 22.5); be sure of what you have, XTA, XZA, XZA-1, and so on, and the size, all exactly as noted on the tire, when you consult the tire table.



Kenneth - actually, I just put on a new set of Firestone FS400's, load rating J.

To make absolutely sure I understand how to use the tire inflation table, is it correct that I would divide the inflation table numbers by two (single) for the steer and tag axles or divide by four (dual) for the drive axle to get the correct recommended PSI per individual tire?

[GDeen]

Kenneth - actually, I just put on a new set of Firestone FS400's, load rating J.

To make absolutely sure I understand how to use the tire inflation table, is it correct that I would divide the inflation table numbers by two (single) for the steer and tag axles or divide by four (dual) for the drive axle to get the correct recommended PSI per individual tire?

Michael,

See the excerpt below from the Michelin load and pressure table guide - no dividing by 4....in fact, no dividing at all. Technically, they are saying weigh each axle end and inflate all tires on axle to max end inflation indicated. Dividing by 2 works obviously but is still not the same as weighing each axle end. Rounding up 5 or 10 psi should cover any error by using the total axle weight average rather than weighing each end separately:

In the load and inflation tables, SINGLE means an axle with one tire mounted on each end, while DUAL means an axle with two tires mounted on each end. The loads indicated represent the total weight of an axle end in an RV application. When one axle end weighs more than the other, use the heaviest of the two end weights to determine the unique tire pressure for all tires on the axle. The maximum cold air pressure for each axle may vary, depending on their weights. These tables are applicable for all RV axles, whether or not they are power-driven.

[Kenneth Brewer]

Michael,

See the excerpt below from the Michelin load and pressure table guide - no dividing by 4....in fact, no dividing at all. Technically, they are saying weigh each axle end and inflate all tires on axle to max end inflation indicated. Dividing by 2 works obviously but is still not the same as weighing each axle end. Rounding up 5 or 10 psi should cover any error by using the total axle weight average rather than weighing each end separately:

In the load and inflation tables, SINGLE means an axle with one tire mounted on each end, while DUAL means an axle with two tires mounted on each end. The loads indicated represent the total weight of an axle end in an RV application. When one axle end weighs more than the other, use the heaviest of the two end weights to determine the unique tire pressure for all tires on the axle. The maximum cold air pressure for each axle may vary, depending on their weights. These tables are applicable for all RV axles, whether or not they are power-driven.



Gordon is completely right, the Michelin tables reflect the whole axle weight (load) and you do not have to divide. The Michelin tables do it for you, no dividing. You have your axle load already, look up the corresponding air pressure and follow the advice about rounding up. Sorry I misled you. Thanks Gordon.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

The proper pressures from the Firestone chart for Michael's tag and steer axles is somewhere between 110 and 115 PSI. For the drive the pressures would be around 80 PSI.

http://www.trucktires.com/firestone/us_eng/load/load_pdf/F_loadTables.pdf

I agree with Steve about rechecking the weights because the tag weight seems unreasonable since his chassis air bags and mine are likely the same and I have a hard time understanding how that much weight can have been shifted onto the tag. I don't doubt the steer axle weight. If that tag axle weight is accurate I would guess at some point oversize air bags have been put on the tag axle and someone needs to check to verify nothing is rubbing. If the weight is correct consider that by having that much weight on the tag turns will be much harder and the tag tires will get excessive scuffing. I would expect to see the tag axle weights in the 11,000 pound range, maybe 12,000.

I hope all new owners are understanding that tire pressures must be adjusted to reflect the axle weights and if the coach has not been weighed it needs to be weighed with full fuel, empty holding tank and full water plus all the personal stuff that is routinely carried.

[truk4u]

Michael,

Travel with empty holding tanks and reduce your fresh water to a 1/4 and that will help. Your steer is over because of the golf cart in the front bay.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

You are a hot prospect for a trailer, Michael.
You have too much stuff.:p

:DJIM

[phorner]

Also, keep in mind that Michelin has two different weight charts, one used for trucks and one used for RV's.

The weight ratings are actually the same, except that the truck chart lists total axle weights where the RV chart uses "corner" weights.

I guess they figure RV drivers are more likely to have each tire (or pair of duals) weighed as opposed to truckers who usually only have axle weight information from truck scales. I would also guess that most trucks are more evenly loaded that the typical bus used as an RV.

If you have individual weights for your front tires, take the highest weight and use it for your pressure settings on both sides. The same applies to the rest of the axles.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

From Tom's post I just remembered the golf cart in the bay.

Start your weight reduction program there. Lose it.

Prevost and the converters are usually way too nice when they are put in the middle by customers that want everything but the kitchen sink in these buses, but the reality is they are built to a certain set of limitations and yours is one that exceeds those.

Every component is sized to handle the limits. Everything from brake surface area to air bag size to bearing capacity to wheels and to tires. Apart from the obvious revenue source most states have scales to keep truckers at or below their weight limits for the safety of the trucker and the other drivers on the road. Our buses are lousy when it comes to stopping and every pound makes a bad situation worse. When within the limits it takes us almost 3 times as long to stop from a given speed as a car traveling the same speed. Some car that gets rearended may have the golf cart to thank for that and the lawyer representing the family in the lawsuit may have the golf cart to thank for his contingency fee.

[michaeldterry]

"On tire inflation table. are the weights listed per wheel or per axle? In other words, do I need to divide the numbers by two (for the steer axle and tag axle) and by four (for the drive axle) to get the weight per tire? I'm confuzzled!"

The answer is yes; divide the axle weight you have in actuality by the number of tires on it. And in the case of the drive axle, you need to compare the result against the tire spec for duals, as the weight allowance for a tire mounted as one of a dual is less than as a single. I guess I saw these post thread later on, as I don't see where you state the exact tire model (and make, which I assume is Michelin), size, and rim diameter (I am sure in this case the rim diameter would be 22.5); be sure of what you have, XTA, XZA, XZA-1, and so on, and the size, all exactly as noted on the tire, when you consult the tire table.

If I have mistated anything here, I'm sure be corrected, so watch this thread. Good luck and I hope you can resolve things.

Okay - Using the axle weights from the weigh ticket, here's what I come up with. I'm asking you guys who actually know and understand this stuff to tell me if I'm on the right track to solving this issue.


Steer axle weight = 15,340 lbs - divided by 2 yields 7,670 lbs at each tire
Drive axle weight = 19,580 - divided by 4 yields 4,895 lbs at each tire
Tag axle weight = 15,060 - divided by 2 yields 7,530 lbs at each tire


Now, on Firestone's inflation table for my FS400 tires - Firestone Truck Tire Inflation Tables (http://www.trucktires.com/firestone/us_eng/load/load_pdf/F_loadTables.pdf), I get the following approximate values:


Steer tire inflation closest match is 7.610 lbs = 120 psi recommended
Drive tire inflation closest match is (Dual) 5,675 lbs at 80 psi recommended (that is the lowest weight on chart)
Tag tire inflation closest match is (Single) 7,610 lbs at 120 psi


Something doesn't seem right on the drive axle conversion. It has four tires, of course, but am I correct in dividing the drive axle weight from the weigh ticket by four to get the approximate load per tire to find the correct approximate weight on each tire to look up the recommended psi on the load table/inflation chart?

I promise to have Vita read your responses to insure comprehension! (Brain damage ain't for the weak!) :rolleyes:

[michaeldterry]

You are a hot prospect for a trailer, Michael.
You have too much stuff.:p

:DJIM

Jim - I would actually consider that (I drove an Eagle entertainer coach for years while I was still in the music business pulling an 18 ft dual axle equipment trailer), but I'm already pulling a toad and I don't want to be mistaken for a train! :p

[Alek&Lucia]

Michael,

Here it is what you need, and it is not far from you ;)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/09-MONACO-ROADMASTER-CAR-HAULER-STACKER-TRAILER-NO-RES_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2a04149fbbQQitemZ18 0457086907QQptZMotorsQ5fTrailers

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2005-UNITED-EXPRESSLINE-34-FOOT-STACKER-TRAILER_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem4a9dc2a4b6QQite mZ320474358966QQptZMotorsQ5fTrailers

Alek

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jim - I would actually consider that (I drove an Eagle entertainer coach for years while I was still in the music business pulling an 18 ft dual axle equipment trailer), but I'm already pulling a toad and I don't want to be mistaken for a train! :p


Michael, now you are pulling our chain. Are you suggesting the drivers of entertainer coaches did not have to air up their tires?

Jim C is also pulling your chain. If you get a trailer we all know you will fill the trailer and your bays and the problem you have now will just get worse.

[hhoppe]

My shifter lever problem was caused by water getting by my driver side window during washing. It killed the whole shifter pad unit. I was able to get a re-built unit through the Detroit Diesel shop in West Sacramento Parts. They got it from Minn. or Wisc. Sorry I did not get their source. It saved me a lot of $$ over the $600,00 new price. Our present bus has a tighter fitting window.

[garyde]

Hi Michael. Regarding tire inflation, I keep mine above the recommended charts. I use the Michelin chart.

http://www.michelinrvtires.com/michelinrv/tires-retreads/load-inflation-tables.jsp

[michaeldterry]

Hi Michael. Regarding tire inflation, I keep mine above the recommended charts. I use the Michelin chart.

http://www.michelinrvtires.com/michelinrv/tires-retreads/load-inflation-tables.jsp

Gary - I get the whole "inflating a few lbs more than the chart" thing - makes sense. I'm still struggling with making sure I'm reading the charts right and how to compare my axle weight numbers from the weigh ticket to make sure I'm comparing "apples to apples" (dividing axle weight numbers by 2 or 4 depending on which axle to get indivual tire weight numbers?).

Also, I'm going to take Steve Bennett's recommendation and get the bus re-weighed at a different scale on the way home tomorrow to validate the weight numbers I have now. I'll do it in two passes - once by individual axle and next weighing the bus in total.

[truk4u]

Michael,

Divide your scale weights by 2 per axle, then use the dual numbers for the drive and single numbers for the tag and steer. Here's an example:

Steer - 15,340/2=7,670 Use the single weight from tire chart
Drive - 19,580/2=9,790 Use the dual weight from the tire chart
Tag - 15,060/2=7,530 Use the single weight from the tire chart

I know nothing about Firestones, but be sure your not exceeding the tire pressures for the weight. Look at the max pressure numbers on the tires. Also remember, your tire pressures are going to really increase when they get hot, so it's important that you don't put in too much air when cold.

On your way home, stop at exit 306 and re-weigh at the Q-T Truckstop. If they're not busy, you can weigh each wheel position by moving off the scale with each side of the bus. The concrete apron is wide enough to weigh one side then circle around and weigh the other side. Make sure someone is outside helping so your sure to split the axles evenly and not get bad readings. On any of the scales, you can screw up and not get the axles split evenly on each independent scale platform. Also, are you sure your toad didn't end up on your tag axle scale ticket? Always unhook the toad.

[michaeldterry]

Tom - thanks for spelling it out for me! By George, I think I've got it! (finally!!!) I intend to follow your instructions to the letter tomorrow on the way home and will post the results tomorrow night after we get home.

[garyde]

Gary - I get the whole "inflating a few lbs more than the chart" thing - makes sense. I'm still struggling with making sure I'm reading the charts right and how to compare my axle weight numbers from the weigh ticket to make sure I'm comparing "apples to apples" (dividing axle weight numbers by 2 or 4 depending on which axle to get indivual tire weight numbers?).

Also, I'm going to take Steve Bennett's recommendation and get the bus re-weighed at a different scale on the way home tomorrow to validate the weight numbers I have now. I'll do it in two passes - once by individual axle and next weighing the bus in total.

Divide your weight by two not four on the drive wheels. So ,if you overall weight on the drive is say 19500 lbs, you would look for 8750 lbs on the chart under duals. If you read the instructions at the top, it indicates weighing each tire individually. If say one of the front tires weighs more than the other on the front, use the heavier weight for air pressure on using the chart.

[Larry W]

Just my two cents on getting the wieght for eaxh axle. I use a truck scale at a local farmers COOP store that has a flat approch and exit. I put the front axle on the scale, record the wieght then move forward so the drives are also on the scale and record the wieght of the two axles. Last I put all the axles on the scale. This gives the total wieght. Then do the math to detremine the wieght of each axle. I think using a scale with a flat approach and exit is very important. Ever notice when stopped on a less than level spot how the tires on the low side of the coach willl look low on pressure due to the additional load cause by the coach not being level.

[Larry W]

Forgot to say. My 99 XLV chassis has a Prevost weight and inflation plate on the inside of the rear engine door on the passenger side.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Larry et al,

The inflation pressures recommended by Prevost or the converter are at best starting points until you can get your coach weighed with all your stuff on board.

The only correct way to learn inflation pressures is to get your coach weighed with full fuel, full water, all your normal stuff on board.

[Ray Davis]

A little caution here. IN looking at both the Firestone tables, and the Michelin tables, they are reported differently.

The Firestone tables (which match the tires that Michael has) give weights per wheel, even under the used as a dual section.

The Michelin tables, however don't, and the weights are listed for both tires combined as a dual axle. So, Tom and Gary's suggestion works fine if you're looking at the Michelin tables. If you're looking at the Firestone tables, a divide by 4 is needed.

Ray

[michaeldterry]

A little caution here. IN looking at both the Firestone tables, and the Michelin tables, they are reported differently.

The Firestone tables (which match the tires that Michael has) give weights per wheel, even under the used as a dual section.

The Michelin tables, however don't, and the weights are listed for both tires combined as a dual axle. So, Tom and Gary's suggestion works fine if you're looking at the Michelin tables. If you're looking at the Firestone tables, a divide by 4 is needed.

Ray

Good catch, Ray! Thanks for saving me from a potentially serious error (I'm using the Firestone tables that correspond with my new Firestone FS 400's)! As they say - "ignorance is bliss" and I'm downright giddy with bliss! :o

[michaeldterry]

I stopped at the QT Truck Stop at exit 306 on the way home, as recommended by Tom to have the bus reweighed with the toad unhooked. for more accuracy, I filled my fresh water tank before leaving Chattanooga this morning and topped off the fuel tanks at the QT before weighing. Vita went inside and explained to the "Weigh Master" what we were trying to accomplish. He understood exactly what we were trying to do, but unfortunately, the CAT scales have a metal framework over them that holds up the CAT Scale sign and the intercom box that allows the driver to talk to the Weigh Master. The frame is very close to the edge of the scale pads and prevents you from weighing one side or tire position at a time. Also, he said that because of the way the bus axles are configured that the Cat Scales are not set up to give accurate separate weights per axle on the drive and steer axles (the steer and tag axles are too close together). He recommended weighing the bus in total and the weigh ticket would reflect a separate weight for the steer axle and the combined weight of the drive and tag axles. He then said to take our weight ticket from Saturday from the Pilot Truckstop and subtract the drive axle weight on the Pilot ticket from the combined weight on the QT ticket to get the actual tag axle weight.

Here's the good news: on the QT scales, with full fuel, full fresh water, golf cart in the front bay, approximately 600 lbs of human cargo (two teen girls asleep in the back and one overweight driver - Vita was outside directing me onto the scales), two small Shih Tzu dogs weighing a total of 18 lbs, and various and sundry clothes, food, toiletries and personal electronic gadgets - the bus weighed a total of 47, 060 (only 60 lbs over the data plate GVWR numbers)!

The steer axle was 15,220 lbs.
The combined drive and tag axles were 31,840 lbs.
Total Gross Weight was 47,060 lbs.

Now, if I do what the Weigh Master suggested and subtract the drive axle weight from the combined drive/tag weight, (31,840 - 19,580), I get 12,260 lbs. for the tag axle! This is much closer in line with whats on the data plate!

Data Plate numbers:
•Steer axle - 14,600 lbs
•Drive axle - 20,400 lbs
•Tag axle - 12,000 lbs
•Gross weight - 47,000 lbs

Now, all I've got to do is make sure that my actual tire inflation is the correct psi for what the chart recommends! Whoopee! :D

As far as the weight difference from Saturday to Monday - all I can figure is the the toad somehow was on the scale pad at the Pilot scales and got included in the weight. :confused:

[Ray Davis]

I'm not sure I understand. This time you weighed the tag and drives combined, and you are subtracting the weight of the drives from previous weighing? I'm not sure I would do that. I guess it's a pretty good estimate, but.

When I've weighed at these CAT scales, I've been able to split the drive and tag onto separate parts of the scale. Obviously this is prone to some degree of error as it's really hard to get this situated so that you get an accurate weight.

But, I'm glad your overall weight came down.

[michaeldterry]

I'm not sure I understand. This time you weighed the tag and drives combined, and you are subtracting the weight of the drives from previous weighing? I'm not sure I would do that. I guess it's a pretty good estimate, but.

When I've weighed at these CAT scales, I've been able to split the drive and tag onto separate parts of the scale. Obviously this is prone to some degree of error as it's really hard to get this situated so that you get an accurate weight.

But, I'm glad your overall weight came down.

Ray - I don't know what to say/do. We're just doing what the Weigh Master at the CAT Scale said. He did say that, the way we weighed at the Pilot probably included the weight of the toad with the rear most (tag) axle, so assuming ( yeah, I know about "assuming"...) that the other axle weights at Pilot were essentially accurate, subtracting the drive axle weight from the Pilot ticket from the combined steer/tag weight on the QT ticket should give a good estimate of the actual tag axle weight. :confused: It made sense when Vita explained what he said! Since the steer axle weight was only 120 lbs difference between the two scale tickets, it seemed like a reasonable way to get a close estimate of the other two axles....

[Ray Davis]

Yeah, I understand. I was just concerned that the whole previous weighing was a bit busted, especially at the read end, affecting certainly the tag, but possibly the drives too?

Best would be if you could get a real weight of both your tag and drive axles, however, I would guess that gives you a pretty good approximation at the moment.

Generally, most of us tend to be overweight on the steers, so that part is critical.

[GDeen]

I also tried to weigh mine with the toad attached on CAT scales the first time. It was obvious from the weights that it didn't work and I got the toad weight on the ticket also.

Pulled around, dumped the toad, pulled back on the scales. They should be able to let you know if you aren't spotted properly for getting your drive and tag weighed separately - the scales are designed for that.

[Danss]

If each wheel is weighed separately like we did at Spearfish, is any allowance made for some of weight being duplicated?

[truk4u]

Michael,

The weigh master is a fuel clerk and he's full of ca ca! I've weighed there since they opened, side to side, front to rear, with toad, without toad and the numbers were close to other scales I used. I do this 2 or 3 times a year just to check on the crap I'm carrying. If you go back there, call me, I'm 15 miles away and I guarantee you it will work. I have tickets in the bus right now that show side to side numbers from that scale.

You may be OK now on your gross, but the steer is still overloaded.

Ray - Good catch, I didn't look at the chart, but the end result for the duals are the same? You have to mentally divide the Michelin numbers by 2.

[Ray Davis]

Ray - Good catch, I didn't look at the chart, but the end result for the duals are the same? You have to mentally divide the Michelin numbers by 2.


I didn't compare side by side, but I assume the end result numbers are very close. It was just interesting when I looked at one chart, and the numbers went up to somewhere about 18,000, while the other only went up to 9,000 pounds!

[Danss]

At Spearfish my drive axle weighed 10,100 on one side and 9300 on the other.
Add together and divide by 2 and you get 9700 and the michelin chart only goes down to 11680 at 85 lbs. Based on the chart I should have about 70 lbs in the drive tires.WHAT AM I DOING WRONG??

[Ray Davis]

I think that it's fairly common that the drives are lightly loaded. If 85# is the lowest on the scale, then that's the minimum I would run. Personally, I would probably bump it a bit to 90 or 95 pounds. I don't think you can hurt anything at those values.

In looking at my last weights, mine too is off the charts at the bottom end. I'm running 100 pounds in mine, instead of 85.

ray

[michaeldterry]

Michael,

The weigh master is a fuel clerk and he's full of ca ca! I've weighed there since they opened, side to side, front to rear, with toad, without toad and the numbers were close to other scales I used. I do this 2 or 3 times a year just to check on the crap I'm carrying. If you go back there, call me, I'm 15 miles away and I guarantee you it will work. I have tickets in the bus right now that show side to side numbers from that scale.

You may be OK now on your gross, but the steer is still overloaded.

Ray - Good catch, I didn't look at the chart, but the end result for the duals are the same? You have to mentally divide the Michelin numbers by 2.

Tom - I'll have to have you show me how to weigh one side at a time on that scale. That sign frame is almost right up against the scale platforms a little forward of the halfway point of the platforms and doesn't seem to leave any room to maneuver one side off the scale. Since you've done it before, I'm sure I'm missing something, but I sure don't see how it's done! :confused:

[garyde]

The charts show recommended minimum PSI. Also, the max is 130 lbs.
I keep my front 365's at 110 lbs, my 315 drive at 105, & 315 tags at 100.
I wouldn't feel comfortable at much less besides I wan to optimize my mileage.

[michaeldterry]

I sent the following inquiry to Firestone a couple of days ago:


I've just had a new set of Firestone FS 400 tires installed on my 1996 Prevost XLV conversion bus (45 feet long) and am trying to determine the correct tire pressure at each axle end to insure safety and long wear. I'm confused about how to use the inflation tables and need guidance. I've had the bus weighed and have a weigh ticket that gives me the weight on each axle (steer, drive, tag). To match up with the inflation charts, do I divide the weigh ticket numbers by 2 for the steer axle, by 4 for the drive axle (duals), and by 2 for the tag axle to find the correct recommended psi on the chart? When I divide as stated above, I find that the individual derived tire position weight numbers for the drive axle are below the lowest number on the chart, which makes me think I'm doing something wrong. Please help! Thank you, Michael Terry

Today, I got the following reply:


Michael,
You are using the right method to determining the individual tire loads from the weight data.
As you already know, the tables represent a maximum load at several minimum inflation pressures.
The table does not extend below 80 psi because this represents a minimum inflation pressure no matter how lightly loaded you are.
However, for your Prevost I would recommend that you maintain 100 psi in your steer tires and 90psi in your drive and tag axle tires.

Michael Hayn
Engineering Manager
OE Truck/Bus Tire Accounts
Bridgestone Americas Tire Operations LLC
535 Marriott Drive
Nashville, TN 37214
615-937-3460 office
615-584-4711 cell
haynmichael@bfusa.com


What do you guys/gals think of what Mr. Hayn suggests?

[garyde]

Hi Michael. Yes. Although, I keep about 105 in my drives and 110 in my front
365's.

[hhoppe]

Mike: As an example my 45 Ft. Liberty weights are as follows:

Total Weight 47,450 Lbs.

Left Front 7500#------ Required Air Psi. 115 #
Right Front 7600# -----Required Air Psi. 115 #
Left Drivers 10,050#---Req.uired Air Psi. 100 #
Right Drivers 9100#----Required Air Psi. 100 #
Left Tag 6500 # -------Req.Air Psi. 90 #
Right Tag 6100 # ------Req.Air Psi. 90 #
Tags up Drivers # 15,700#
These weights were aquired using individual scales placed under each tire location courtesy of Weights & Measure personel S, Dakota State at one of our POG Ralley's in Spearfish, SD.
Best to use your own coach weights. Under Inflation causes heat and tire failure.
Safe Travels to you.

[Ray Davis]

That matches completely with what was suggested in previous posts. As I've mentioned, generally our drive wheels are lightly loaded (at least on a non-slide) coach given the load carrying capacity of the 4 wheels.

I ran 100 pounds in mine, even though mine, like yours, are off the bottom of the chart.

I run 115, 100, 95 in mine.

ray

[michaeldterry]

I found this info this morning by searching Prevost's Online tech manuals in the "Wheels, Hubs, & Tires" section:

13.1 Recommended Tire Inflation Pressure (Cold)
Inflation pressure should be checked when tires are cold. Driving, even for a short distance, will cause the tire to warm up and the air pressure to
increase. Check inflation pressure on all tires using an accurate tire gauge.

The maximum loading tire inflation pressure (cold) for 12 R 22.5 tires are as follows:
Front axle....................................115 psi (792 kPa)
Drive axle......................................90 psi (620 kPa)
Tag axle ........................................95 psi (655 kPa)
Note: It is recommended that all tires on coach be of the same type.
Note: Tires are considered cold when the vehicle has not been driven for at least three hours, or driven less than 1 mile (1,6 km).
Driving, even for a short distance, causes tires to heat up and air pressure to increase.
Note: Never bleed air from hot tires as tires will then be underinflated. Use an accurate tire gauge to check pressures. (Do not kick tires as an inflation check. This is an unreliable method).
Caution: In the case of a converted vehicle, weigh vehicle fully loaded and pressurize according to tire manufacturer's recommendations.
Caution: These tire pressures are established in accordance with the maximum allowable load on each axle. A lower pressure is recommended if the axle load is less than the above specifications.

My tires are 315/80R22.5, so I guess the following would apply?:

RECOMMENDED TIRE INFLATION PRESSURE AT MAXIMUM LOAD (cold)

Tires 315/80R22.5
Front axle.............................................. .................................................. ............................100 psi (689 kPa)
Drive axle.............................................. .................................................. ..............................90 psi (620 kPa)
tag axle .................................................. .................................................. .............................80 psi (551 kPa)
Spare tire (if applicable)....................................... .................................................. ..............100 psi (689 kPa)

Caution: In the case of a converted vehicle, weigh it fully loaded and pressurize according to tire manufacturer's recommendations.

My guy at Apalachee RV reviewed all the information so far and recommends 120 psi in the steers and 110 psi on both the drives and the tags.

So many options, so many ways to screw this up! :confused:

[Ray Davis]

Where are you getting those numbers?

Your front weights were 15,200 if I remember correctly. In the Firestore tables, that's a minimum of 110 pounds. Where in the world are you getting 100 pounds for your steers?

Here is the values for your tires.

6018

I don't see where you are getting 100 pounds for your steers, if you are weighing in at 15,200? I see 110 pounds.

And as the Firestone guy said, I personally wouldn't run 90 pounds on your drives, I would bump it to 100. That's just my personal opinion. Obviously, that's not required, but allows you some extra carrying capacity.

Ray

[GDeen]

Tire pressure is a case where more is definitely better from a safety perspective

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I'm zipping up my flame proof suit so feel free to respond.

Do you think if it is this hard to figure out how much air to put in your tires you should be driving one of these buses? Especially considering that is something that should have been on the to-do list for the first pre-trip inspection.

Seeing all these posts, especially with the diverse opinions leads me to believe that if I asked if everyone is doing the pre-trip brake inspections I would be getting the "deer in the headlights" look.

Come on guys.

[sawdust_128]

I'm zipping up my flame proof suit so feel free to respond.

Do you think if it is this hard to figure out how much air to put in your tires you should be driving one of these buses? Especially considering that is something that should have been on the to-do list for the first pre-trip inspection.

Seeing all these posts, especially with the diverse opinions leads me to believe that if I asked if everyone is doing the pre-trip brake inspections I would be getting the "deer in the headlights" look.

Come on guys.


O.K. there Sunshine. Who was it that pissed in your cornflakes today?

Deer in the headlights???? Not hardly!

[michaeldterry]

Where are you getting those numbers?



Ray - "where I got those numbers" was from Prevost's online technical manuals in the "Wheels, Hubs, & Tires" section. I wasn't saying that they were appropriate for my/our application - in fact, the reason I posted that info was to highlight the wide range of inflation/load numbers out there which add to the confusion of "what's right" for idiots like me!

At any rate, tomorrow I'm going to adjust the steers to 115 psi and the drives & tags to 100 psi. After reviewing all the diverse specs, suggestions, recommendations, and opinions - those are the numbers that make the most sense to me. I'm now realizing that I way over analyzed this and turned what should have been a simple process into a royal cluster f%#k! :o

I realize that I'm driving you guys crazy with idiot questions and for that I apologize. The problem is that, since my accident my lack of mobility/dexterity prevents me from digging in and figuring out stuff that I would have figured on my own in my former life. It often leaves me to "depend on the kindness of strangers" these days. The good news is - I do eventually learn and retain what I'm taught (or take damned good notes)!

Also, while at the bus tomorrow, I'm going to pull the shift pad module out of its frame and see if I can clean the pad contacts on the back to resolve my shifter issue. W.W. Williams has obtained a new shifter module from Alabama and will install it for me, but the parts are over $1,300 and with labor/time/etc the bill will be over $2,000. The other option is a "shifter repair kit" that they can get for about $100 from the Greer, SC location, but after labor, tax, tag, & freight - that option would be almost $800 and the tech said he can't guarantee that the repair kit would resolve my issue. (We wouldn't know until after they "installed" it and then I would have "bought" it and might still have an inoperable shifter) Soooo... before I "jump off the cliff" with one of the expensive options, I figure I've got nothing to lose by seeing if it's as simple as a dirty or corroded contact on the pad. We'll see.... :rolleyes:

Sorry guys.... :o

[Pete]

Michael.....Don't think for a second that you need to apologize to anyone for asking a question on this site. It is for all of us to use, so keep the questions coming! I for one (and there are many others) find your comments and questions refreshing and upbeat, something that is missing more and more these days.

[michaeldterry]

Michael.....Don't think for a second that you need to apologize to anyone for asking a question on this site. It is for all of us to use, so keep the questions coming! I for one (and there are many others) find your comments and questions refreshing and upbeat, something that is missing more and more these days.

Pete - thanks for your support and your kind comments! The generosity of the POG membership constantly amazes me.

[Ray Davis]

Ray - "where I got those numbers" was from Prevost's online technical manuals in the "Wheels, Hubs, & Tires" section. I wasn't saying that they were appropriate for my/our application - in fact, the reason I posted that info was to highlight the wide range of inflation/load numbers out there which add to the confusion of "what's right" for idiots like me!

Mike, thanks for the clarification. Only thing I can think of is that was for an empty shell. By the time the converter is done with it, it is a BUNCH heavier. Read, use and trust the tire charts and you will be fine. No single set of values is going to be always right for all of these coaches. No way ....

Ray

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Michael, glad you have your tire pressure issue resolved.
How you got there is not as important as the arrival at the final destination.

POG should be a place for all that paid their fee to get their questions answered without contempt and ridicule.
Negative comments only hurt POG and make those that lurk in the background hesitate to post and/or feel uncomfortable about it when they do.

In this internet medium it is difficult at best to communicate technical information, questions and answers. Minute details left out or the way the question is asked or, or, or, or...... make the difference between a satisfactory or failed resolution. Often the answer comes by several in a dialog back and forth sorting out the details and getting the correct information. Then the correct answer comes. The whole dialog is important to get to that point. No one came here to be judged categorized or classified. POG is a place to learn in a fraternal atmosphere.

Good luck on your shifter endeavor and ask any question, you can always get the incorrect advice here for free.

:) JIM

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Ed et al........nobody pissed in my Corn Flakes. I want us to be safe. I may be bringing a pilot mentality to the table here but we must realize we are aiming 45,000 plus pounds of metal down the road and our training has to go beyond finding the key.

We are adults here and if a grump like me chastising us all is going to get someone's nose out of joint so be it.

These things we drive are not toys. They are complex, heavy, large missles and I want to know I share the highway with other owners who at least know and understand how to drive them safely. I think safety starts by knowing the tires are properly inflated, the braking system is functioning properly, and the lights all work. I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation. My safety and those of others on the road is not compromised if an owner does not understand the house systems, but if as a group we are struggling with how to determine the proper tire pressures then I wonder if the tires are even being checked, and if any other pre-trip checks are being made to insure the safety of all who share the same road.

Feel free to disagree. Just let me know who disagrees so I can be sure to stay some distance away while on the highway.

[Pete]

Michael, let us know how your transmission pad situation turns out, we are waiting to find out how you resolve it.

[stevet903]

Back to the original problem - try General Diesel - they rebuild the shifter units. Give them a call - they are very helpful and will help diagnose your issue.

http://www.gendieselect.com/index.html

Steve

[michaeldterry]

We took the left "console" apart this afternoon and removed the shift selector module to try and clean any contacts on the shift pads. Unfortunately, what I found is that the shift selector module is a sealed box without any way to access the inner workings, such as the backs of the shift selector pads. I unplugged the module, did my best to clean the contact pins that the harness plugs into, put it back together and crossed my fingers. The unit functioned (or didn't function, as it were) just as it has since the problem began. To wit - all the selector pads respond appropriately to a push of the finger except the "D" (drive) pad. Fortunately, the "D" pad can still be selected by using the blunt end of a writing pen to depress it. I guess that seals my fate. I've got a call into the W.W. Williams tech/mechanic to arrange to have the shift module replaced. I don't know what else to do and I'm loathe to depend on the "pen poke" work around as a long term solution. It would be just my luck to have that little trick stop working at a most inopportune time! :eek:

[Pete]

Michael, sorry to hear your efforts were fruitless. You are probably right in having them fix it and then you will be confident it will work as it should, and you can enjoy your coach.....good effort though!

[michaeldterry]

Michael, sorry to hear your efforts were fruitless. You are probably right in having them fix it and then you will be confident it will work as it should, and you can enjoy your coach.....good effort though!

Thanks for the kind words, Pete! With the shifter issue and the tire inflation debacle I created, I've been feeling pretty "stoopid" lately. I have half jokingly blamed a lot of my "comprehension issues" on my damaged brain (I really am brain damaged - that's no joke), but as Ron White (my favorite comedian) says, "You can't fix stupid." :p I've been driving intercity buses and bus conversions since 1980, but have never dealt with the sheer systemic and component level complexity that exists on my Prevost XLV. The old Eagle passenger coaches and entertainer conversions that I owned or drove were very simple in comparison to today's Prevost conversions - plus I always had a trusted local service facility to take care of any issues outside of my comfort zone (Bluebonnet RV and Bus Service - Rosenburg, TX). The owners, Phil & Cindy Howell, ran a fleet of Eagle entertainer coaches of their own and had a mechanic on staff, "Slick", who knew the Eagle buses like the back of his hand! They always kept my Eagles in tip-top shape and taught me tons about them along the way.

Unfortunately, I don't have that kind of relationship here in Georgia yet and with my disability/mobility issues - it keeps me from "digging in" hands-on with things that I would have tackled in a heartbeat in my prior life.

Now, I depend alot on the POG braintrust to point me in the right direction when questions/issues arise and I'm continually in awe of the collective knowledge and generosity here! I do listen to you guys, even when you "take me to task"! :o

[Pete]

Michael, I know exactly where Bluebonnet RV is. I pass by there on my way to visit a friend in Rosenberg.

We sometime just have to bite the bullet and have these type things fixed and pay the piper. I have owned Prevost coaches for about 12 or 13 years now and if you take good care of them, have them regularly maintained by Prevost you will enjoy them for many years. It can get costly at times, but they do warrant their repairs.

Granted, some have the tools, facilities, and the ability to do a lot of the work, but all of us have to have repairs made by a repair facility on occasion..nothing wrong with that. But in the end there is nothing like a Prevost!

[truk4u]

Michael,

There are lots of folks here that will help you through the various operational and maintenance needs of your Prevost. This is a pretty direct group, you will get answers that are fact driven and not sugar coated to make you feel good. We all have been on the receiving end of solutions that make us feel like we're just not up to speed on these somewhat complicated machines.

However, I do have to raise a concern and hope you don't take it the wrong way. Not knowing the severity of your injury, I do hope the comprehension issues you experience do not have any effect on your ability to safely transport your family and deal with the complexity that exists (your words) of the bus and surrounding dangerous truck and car traffic. People have no regard for the size of our buses and the long distance it takes to get stopped.

We have lost one member due to a preventible none driving accident and you will find that many on the site truly have your well being at heart and if you get spanked, it's because that's just the way it is!;)

[michaeldterry]

Michael,

There are lots of folks here that will help you through the various operational and maintenance needs of your Prevost. This is a pretty direct group, you will get answers that are fact driven and not sugar coated to make you feel good. We all have been on the receiving end of solutions that make us feel like we're just not up to speed on these somewhat complicated machines.

However, I do have to raise a concern and hope you don't take it the wrong way. Not knowing the severity of your injury, I do hope the comprehension issues you experience do not have any effect on your ability to safely transport your family and deal with the complexity that exists (your words) of the bus and surrounding dangerous truck and car traffic. People have no regard for the size of our buses and the long distance it takes to get stopped.

We have lost one member due to a preventible none driving accident and you will find that many on the site truly have your well being at heart and if you get spanked, it's because that's just the way it is!;)

Tom- I didn't take offense to your comments and concerns in the least! I understand - particularly given the limited information I've disclosed thus far.
So, here's the whole story... Have a seat, this will take a while...

On May 4th, 2004, I had a horrific accident on my Harley-Davidson near my home in Chicago (A young girl pulled out from a side street and hit me.) I was rushed to the hospital where they gave me a 5% chance of surviving through the night. I had a traumatic brain injury and had emergency brain surgery to remove a clot the size of a human fist that had shifted my entire brain over to the left side of my skull. I was in a deep coma for 32 days (3 on the Glascow scale - the worst) and then in various hospitals for another three months. I was in a wheelchair for about 6 months. Against all odds I slowly recovered, although I am permanently disabled and haven't worked since the accident (except for a couple of consulting engagements lasting 2-3 months each that I took at the request of friends/ex-colleagues) and a part-time member services job at a local gym for about a year.

Also I'm fortunate that, because I was wearing my leathers (but alas, no helmet), I was spared any visible or disfiguring physical injuries, so my appearance hasn't changed (not to say that I was any special prize before the accident!). I sold my home in Chicago and moved back to Georgia (after 19 months in Chicago) at the end of November 2004 to be near family and friends.

Several months after the accident, I was cleared to drive after testing by a neurologist and a rehabilitation doctor. When I returned to Georgia, I retested for my CDL License and passed the written test with a perfect score, the driving test with no noted concerns, and the DOT physical with flying colors. I do walk with a "spastic gait" and my left arm/hand are partially paralyzed. My "brain issues" are really more centered around short term memory issues. My reaction time, vision, etc are unaffected. Actually, the thing that bothers me most in social situations is my voice. I had a tracheostomy for 6 weeks and it left one of my vocal chords paralyzed, a large amount of scar tissue around my trachea and my trachea below the tracheostomy site narrowed to about 1 milimeter (normal is about 2.5 milimeters). The result is that my voice is very hoarse and weak and it requires a lot of effort for me to "converse" at length.

But you know what? I have no complaints! I'm just happy to be alive, that I have a beautiful Prevost bus, and that the most incredible woman I've ever met agreed to marry me on December 6, 2008!

In closing this epistle, I want to reiterate that I love being a part of POG and look up to many of the members here who are so knowlegeable and so generous with their knowledge!

Thank you for being so kind to me and Vita (especially when I pester you with "idiot questions"! :o

[michaeldterry]

Today, Vita and I called the W.W. Williams technician at home and arranged to have him meet us at the W. W. Williams location near downtown Atlanta to purchase the new shifter module. We told him that we just wanted to purchase the part and install it ourselves to save money. No problem.

The W.W. Williams tech, Brian, met us at the (closed on Sunday) shop and proceeded to install the new shift module for us on his personal time at no addtional cost! The new module works perfectly and the shift pads are not "rubbery' like the old style module was. The new pads have a solid feel that simply "depress" slightly like a button when you press them - a much more substantial feel!

I know that some are not fans of W.W. Williams (for bus work), but I must say that based on this experience, I have no complaints!

Thanks to all of you that offered suggestions, guidance, and support!

[Larry W]

Happy for you that the shifter problem is now in your past.

[truk4u]

Great Michael, glad your all fixed up with the tranny deal.

Thanks for sharing the terrible accident you went through, that was a remarkable story. You have reinforced my choice to wear a helmet.;)

[Pete]

Glad to hear you have the problem fixed.. Now you are ready to enjoy your coach. Be careful!

[Ray Davis]

Excellent news about the shifter. Now, with properly inflated tires and a new shifter, sounds like it's time to be hitting the road! :D

There is nothing more fun than being out on the road in these machines. I only wish I had more time to do it.

Drive safely, and keep posting. We're all learning something here ....


Ray

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Glad your shifter issue is resolved, Michael.

Don't forget to cut open the old shifter pad to see if you can figure out what went wrong inside :cool:

JIM:D

[michaeldterry]

Don't forget to cut open the old shifter pad to see if you can figure out what went wrong inside :cool:

JIM:D

Great idea, Jim!

[truk4u]

Hold on boys, before you destroy the old pad, can it be rebuild by DD?

[Alek&Lucia]

Michael,

Tom is correct !
Get it fixed, and keep it as a spare for your self or another POG'er

Try this people : http://www.gendieselect.com/sales.html
Ph # 1-800-217-4553

Alek

[michaeldterry]

Hold on boys, before you destroy the old pad, can it be rebuild by DD?

Tom & Alek - great suggestion! I'll check into it!

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Michael, with your episode you have shown once again that one of the most effective tools in the repair of a Prevost is the almighty Pen, IE, pushing/poking and signing.:cool:




:DJIM