Turning ...

[Ray Davis]

I received an email today which is I believe associated with Lazy Days. They referenced a video online which was about "Turning in your Motorhome". I thought it might be interesting to watch ...

http://www.betterrving.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleUrl=RV_Driver_Confidence_C ourse_Part_5_Turning_in_Your_Motor_Home&Department=RV_Tips&TId={175C86B3-68EB-4409-BAC0-7741C1C598C7}&utm_campaign=&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

I'm not sure I buy it for a Prevost. According to their video, you need to wait until your hips pass what you don't want to hit (like the curb) before beginning your turn.

In my coach, I've always waited quite a bit longer, watching my rear wheels, until I'm close to them reaching the curb.

I'm curious what others think. I would guess that for longer vehicles like ours, waiting as suggested here is just not enough.

I've had no issues with the method I use, and I've never hit a curb (yet), so I'm not planning on changing, but I thought this was of interest ...

Ray

[dale farley]

Ray,

I agree with you. I go farther than my hips when making most turns. I think part of this is because a Prevost turns sharper then the average RV.

[Pete]

Ray, I think ole Barney must be trying to get some body work for LazyDays shop. I think you need to use your side views, experience, and good judgment, rather than a rule of thumb in making turns.

I don't know what kind of coach he is referring to, but I can't think of one that your hips are not in front of the steer wheels.....but I'm getting old!

[Ray Davis]

My thought was that most standard motorhomes have a much smaller wheelbase than a Prevost. Any turning rule-of-thumb I would have thought needs to take into account how long the wheelbase, rather than simply the turning angle.

Most motorhomes turn sharper (due to the shorter wheelbase), but have much more tail swing.

[BrianE]

Using a fixed point near the driver can't guarantee clearing an obstruction in the rear. Rate of turn, horizontal distance from obstacle to drive wheel, and angle of turn are all variables. Remember, the bus pivots around the drive axle. The only way to assure a bonk-free turn is to monitor the changing relationship of the inner drive wheel to the corner. It's all done with mirrors. Additionally curbside trees, stop signs, fire hydrants, etc help keep life interesting.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I have seen that "tip" about using the hips as the start of the turn and I agree with all the posts above. I'm not sure any of us can define precisely where we actually begin our turn because as Brian accurately points out there are variables such as the radius and how fast we turn the wheel and how far we are from the curb or other obstacles.

All I know is that intuitively I make my turns when I need to make them and usually I know before I have even begun the turn I know if I have to back up a line of cars at the intersection of if I can make the swing without interfering with the intersection traffic while avoiding the curb. I suspect everyone else has the same ability after a few hours of practice.

Except Mango who possesses the skill to hit big rocks when he turns.

[tdelorme]

"Except Mango who possesses the skill to hit big rocks when he turns."


Wow, way harsh !! Is this not the beginning of the Holiday Season?? Santa, please bring Jon a kinder and gentler demeanor for Christmas. How them flat spotted tires doing for you, A1?

[sawdust_128]

Another thread bites the dust.

You guys all run around covering each other by claiming you are all type A's.

Now I realize that your affliction prevents you from remembering the rest of the letters.:eek:

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Hey Mel Torme (a name given by Mango), what part of the award presentation for Mango in OKC did you not hear? And lest we forget, would you care to fill us in on how coaches get dinged down in the Lone Star State?

Was that during a turn, the topic of this thread?

[tdelorme]

Well. yes, Jon I remember the OKC award ceremony. I thought it was quite dignified and in good taste.

The other issue you mention, I have no idea what your talking about. A senior moment on your part, perhaps.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Senior moment my a$$. I have photos. Actually we all have photos.

But there is not a single photo of a flat spotted tire.

[stevet903]

I was taught to line up between 18" and 3 feet from the curb to block people trying to sneak in on your right. Note any traffic lights or signs sticking out beyond the curb line that the mirror or side can hit. Begin the turn when the center line of the front axle crosses the curb line or the line of the obstacle. Watch the track of the rear wheels in the mirror, adjusting the turn as needed to miss the curb/obstacle, watching people coming around on your left, all the while dodging oncoming traffic.... If there is an issue, STOP!! Let the four-wheelers go around and clear your area so that you can back up or use the opposite lane if needed.... Cheaper and ultimately less aggravation than an insurance claim...

[Ray Davis]

To me that seems a bit too early to begin the turn. Obviously, it matters a LOT how fast you turn.

I tend to wait until my back wheels are almost to the end of the curb (or obstruction), and then I turn pretty sharply as I get to that point.

I do keep watching the mirrors to make sure I'll make it.

I would guess the benefit to your approach, using a slower turn, is that you'll actually end up perhaps a little less into the intersection than you will with my method?

Ray

[Jon Wehrenberg]

This discussion is like trying to define how high is up.

The width of the turn lane in the street you are turning from, the width of the lane you are turning into, the number of degrees you have to turn, and the turning radius of the bus all are factors which will create different answers to when do you start your turn?

I started thinking about this in the context of a RH turn I often have to make. The lane I am in prior to the turn is a turn lane, but only about 2 feet wider than the bus. I have to enter a street that has 2 lanes in the direction I am heading, and it has a reasonably wide shoulder. Despite that I know from experience that despite my wheels being on the white line defining the LH side of my turn lane, I have to stick my nose far enough past the curb that I take every inch of the fast lane on the street I am turning into. In fact drivers sitting in the turn lane going in the opposite direction I will be turning to are often afraid I am going to hit them because I use every bit of room available to me.

And when watching the curb on the inside of the turn I come within inches of it. It is a 90 degree turn. If I started the turn when my front wheels got even with the curb I would not only go over the curb, I would take out the telephone pole. My steering wheel is at the full RH extreme.

I do not think there is a standard rule. Anybody trying to make the turn into the road that leads to the campground at Oysterfest knows we not only take the full width of the turn lane, we take the full width of the lane of oncoming traffic in the street we are entering, and we not only need to watch the curb, be need to watch the sign hanging out above the curb. In that turn I have to back up the oncoming traffic because the stop line leaves no provision for large vehicles making the turn.

[Ray Davis]

I certainly agree there are a ton of variables which affect the turn, and different folks will do it differently. But I think we all agree you can certainly turn way TOO early, as you've indicated, taking out everything in your path.

It seems like your technique is similar to mine. Wait longer, take as much lane as you need to clear the curb, turn hard, watch your back wheels as you go.

I just thought that it was interesting that Steve starts his turn as the front axle clears. That seems to more closely (almost) mirror the video I posted in the first post of this thread.

I think the "real" discussion might be techniques for back-in parking at a RV park! I've seen several people try slightly different approaches. Some with varied degrees of success.

Ray

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Backing standards or rules of thumb are as affected by the same factors as above, except you are going backwards. The only difference is when backing you intentionally place your rear wheels as close to the point that defines the point you need to clear. It may not be a curb, but it may be grass, or a post or a rock., Once the drive axle wheels are immediately adjacent to the pivot point, then crank in full turn on the steering wheel and shift the attention to the swing of the front end.

As a side note I really do not want the campground folks trying to guide me. All I want them to do is either stand adjacent to where they want the drive axle wheels to end up, or stand at a low lying obstruction such as a large rock that I might not see.

I do not use the camera as much as I probably should because I use my mirrors. The camera will not protect you from dinging the side of the bus when swinging around a turn while backing.

[garyde]

Steve is right about the signs , posts, streetlights, etc. It is a good idea to maintain a 2 to 3 foot clearance from the curb. I typically will start my turn about mid-coach. But, it will be a gradual turn, not quick.
Campgrounds are the biggest problem because the roads are narrower and there can be RV's and autos parked along the sides.
I don't get why campgrounds place rocks and such on inside corners. It just insures someone is going to scrape up the sides of their coach.
In Parks , I swing wide.

[Ray Davis]

I don't get why campgrounds place rocks and such on inside corners. It just insures someone is going to scrape up the sides of their coach.

After OKC I traveled to Ozark Alabama to visit my son at Fort Rucker. He was supposed to meet us at OKC, but his training plans were changed.

There's pretty much only one or two parks in the Fort Rucker area which looked (on the web) big enough for our rigs.

I ended up calling one in Ozark, and the new owner explained he had a 42 foot Prevost there just the previous week!

Anyway, after spending some time talking to him, it's clear he didn't have a clue as to what a "big rig" needs. He called his park "Big Rig Friendly", because it had a couple of 70 foot slots.

I patiently explained that very rarely have I had a problem with slot length. It's almost always sharp turns, and obstructions at the turns. I agree Gary, what in the world are they thinking when they put a giant bolder at the corner of a sharp turn, or at the boundaries of the RV slots?

[merle&louise]

Ray,

I agree with you and Gary about the boulders placed on the inside corner of turns and sites. What are these guys thinking! I have decided that if the campground isn't in Big Rigs Best Bets - I won't stay there. I understand that in this case you wanted to be close to your son's location so your situation is different.

If you remember at Buckhorn in Kerrville the inside corner of the site is filled with large gravel. That keeps the site from being damaged and at the same time allows the coach to roll over the gravel to get into the site. BLR is the best thought out RV park ever!:)

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I really think the placement of rocks is intended to keep drivers where they belong and to punish them if they do not.

Trucks drive behind our factory in NY. Any driver could negotiate the turns and the area set aside for backing into the loading dock without putting a wheel on the grass. But instead they would hit the grass, and when the place where grass used to be turned to mud and dirt, the drivers used that plus a little more of the grass that had not been ruined turning that into mud and dirt, and then thye used the grass beyond that. You get the picture.

So we placed concrete barriers. You know what happened next. Some trucks hit the barriers. Then a trucker decided it was too much effort to make the turns so he decided to take a short cut across the mowed grass. It is really impressive to see a semi mired so deep in mud his fuel tanks are on the grass.

My point is until we put barriers every foot of the way along the roads behind the factory drivers will still nip the corner or actually ride parallel to the road with one wheel on the grass. We did not have big rocks available so we instead used the big solid concrete barriers. I don't like the rocks because low lying stuff like that is going to damage bay doors if we don't see them, but how else does a campground owner minimize the damage due to careless drivers?

[BrianE]

Well said Jon. Just another case of negligence, ineptness, and disrespect ruining it for the rest of us. We have to avoid the rocks, bushes, and trees. Knowing that won't make me leave my pry-bar and pruning-saw at home though. :eek:

[GDeen]

The little park I like to stay at up in the Ozark foothills of AR has a big rock protecting a grassy median. The owner put it there to protect his grass .... his wife told on him though that the only one it kept off the grass was him in his Prevost when he clipped it.:eek:

I guess sometimes we outsmart ourselves..

[garyde]

I know what they are attempting to do, but it makes little sense if the park is designed properly. i believe in most cases, older parks are attempting to maintain their exisiting roads and conditions and not adapting to the newer and larger RV's and Trailers. The low profile Rocks are a cheap way of saying: 'Gotcha'!
Bollards, Rocks, etc. are meant to protect structures, trees, plumbing and so on but when they are placed on inside corners of already sharp turns, they
are compensating for poor design.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I can excuse the owner of a 50 year old camground that was layed out for 26 foot travel trailers. What I cannot accept is the campground owner who starts with a clean sheet of paper today, and in an effort to maixmize the number of sites, cuts down on the width of roads or the turn radii.

How many of us have been in beautiful new campgrounds with 70 foot long pull through sites that are all concrete, but are only 9 or 10 feet wide, with no apron for the turn in or exit forcing us to drive on grass to get on the concrete? We know it is just a question of time before rocks show up because the shortsighted owner is tired of patching the grass we have to drive on.

There was a time when a 40 foot Prevost was a big deal. Today it appears a 45 foot Prevost is just another big motorhome with many of the plastic motorhomes our size.

[GDeen]

I can excuse the owner of a 50 year old camground that was layed out for 26 foot travel trailers. What I cannot accept is the campground owner who starts with a clean sheet of paper today, and in an effort to maixmize the number of sites, cuts down on the width of roads or the turn radii.

How many of us have been in beautiful new campgrounds with 70 foot long pull through sites that are all concrete, but are only 9 or 10 feet wide, with no apron for the turn in or exit forcing us to drive on grass to get on the concrete? We know it is just a question of time before rocks show up because the shortsighted owner is tired of patching the grass we have to drive on.

There was a time when a 40 foot Prevost was a big deal. Today it appears a 45 foot Prevost is just another big motorhome with many of the plastic motorhomes our size.

You are exactly right - the new La Hacienda Park out in Lakeway west of Austin has that problem with a couple of their sections. No way to get a 45' bus outta there without running over grass and other sites where the exit road makes a T. He has placed boulders on the inside corner which means you have to cut out over the grass and site in front of you to clear the rear wheels.

Grizzly in W. Yellowstone had the best layout I have seen in my admittedly limited experience. They had tapers entering and exiting the sites which made manuevering the bus very easy without running over grass.

[rahangman]

What favorite little campground in Arkansas Foothills are you talking about. We live in Harrison (South of Branson) and are always looking a places to go spend a day or two. Several "neat" places, but, being only 40' we still have to be careful not only turns but possible high sides in a couple locations.