Leaking Valve

[dale farley]

My fresh water drain is leaking after I turn off the switch. I assume the valve is not closing completely or a seal is leaking in the valve. Is this valve serviceable or should I just get another? Source?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Solenoid valves are usually serviceable. If you can find the local distributor they may have a kit.

Some however are relatively inexpensive and it makes replacement of the entire valve a better choice. A solenoid valve is a solenoid valve is a solenoid valve so as long as you get one with the coil voltage you need, the fitting sizes and the pressure rating they are pretty generic.

[dale farley]

I called Grainger, and they couldn't pull it up with any of the numbers. I also checked their website and found nothing. I thought this would be a relatively easy replacement or repair, but I am beginning to wonder.

I saw some on the internet for $40 and thought that was high, so I kept looking and started finding them for $109. Now I can't find the $40 any more.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

I saw some on the internet for $40 and thought that was high, so I kept looking and started finding them for $109. Now I can't find the $40 any more.

Dale, I just hate it when I do that ! ? :eek: :D Good luck finding the $40 unit again.:)

Gary S.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Did you try here?

http://www.fpfilters.com/new_page_10.htm

[dale farley]

Jon, I looked on their site and haven't yet seen what I need. (May not know what I am looking for.) I also called them a little earlier, but they were closed.

[Ray Davis]

Dale,

I had stuck / icky valves on my CC. I found these files somewhere online, and a local Goyen distributor had repair kits for about $6 as I remember.

I don't happen to have their number right off-hand, but see if you can find your valve numbers in here.


The repair kit was essentially a rubber seal and a spring. Not much too these things assuming the solenoid isn't bad.

Darn, the second file was 1.5M which was too big for an attachment. Let me know if you need an email, or if the smaller file had your valve in it.

Ray

[dale farley]

Ray,

My number was in the file. I much prefer the $6 rebuild to the $120 valve. Thanks.

[dreamchasers]

Dale,

If you find rebuild kits for the solenoids, please let me know where you purchased? I need to install kits in mine also.

Thanks,

Hector

[dale farley]

Hector, I'm going to make a couple calls Monday. I don't really know what the valve looks like inside, so I don't know what's involved in rebuilding it. If I can't find a local supplier, I'll call the site Ray sent to me. I have several of these valves, but this is the first one that has leaked. It just drips a little all the time if I have water in my fresh water tank.

[mikedee]

The diaphragm is leaking or the seat on the diaphragm is not sealing probably not a solenoid problem. Get the info off the brass valve and I can get you to the kit. Probably less than 10.00.

As an option you can quickly crack the valve open by removing the four cap bolts and clean the valve. A little junk can hang the valve and make it not seat tight. This appears to be a direct acting valve that opens and closes from the solenoid action., 10 min's if you have the part.

Goyen is a good company, I used thousands of a different style diaphragm valve on dust collectors I built over the years.

[dale farley]

Mike,

I will pull the valve tomorrow, and see what the numbers are. The solenoid does seem to be working fine.

[gmcbuffalo]

Dale
what function does this valve do relating to the fresh water tank? Where do you see it dripping?
GRegM

[mikedee]

Great,
I am close friends with the Goyen people. We can go direct to the source.

Like you say new valves are about $100, lower quality valves are $40.

http://www.thevalveshop.com/menu/auto/asco/8210.html you want the model 8210G15 if the valve is 1/2" NPT. Note: the solenoid voltage is important

I replaced mine that fills the tank, it was so crapped up I just tossed my valve.

I would try the cleaning it route first.

[Ray Davis]

Inside the valve as mentioned is a diaphragm. What may not be clear there is a weep hole in the diaphragm, which is about the size of a pin-prick. If it's clogged, the valve won't work. If you are leaking, it could just mean you need to open it, clean it, and retighten the 4 bolts.

[flyu2there]

I agree with Mike and Ray; probably a piece of junk in there from your tank, even sand will gum the works in these little valves. Take it apart and clean it up with soapy water. This may be putting perfume on a pig but you can also install a Groco Inline Water Strainer up stream of the valve for about 12 bucks. Looks like a fuel strainer and has a little plastic cup filter arrangement that traps the sediment....see thru. You see junk, m t the strainer..............

[dale farley]

John,

I plan to dissemble it today and look for any junk. I too, think there is a good possibility that something is just preventing it from sealing as it should.

I think I already have the strainer you are referring to. There is a devise with a clear screw-on cap in front of all these valves, and I assume that is a strainer of some kind. Are these strainers serviceable? Should/can they be cleaned as preventive maintenance.

[flyu2there]

Dale,

Just have a peek into the sight glass. Some are servicable, some you just replace, you will have to look at the kind installed. That too, wash out under a swift running faucet and you should be good to go!

[dale farley]

I removed the valve and strainer. I cleaned the valve, put some vaseline on the gasket and reassembled it, and it still drips just like before. I see there is a perfectly round hole in the diaphragm (3rd picture) , so I assume that is what is causing the leak.

The strainer is just a cup with a round screen in it. I removed it and washed everything out and replaced it.

The only number on the valve is on the solenoid itself. It says Goyen 12BWJ2-CNBNA-62D7. The only writing on the brass valve body is Goyen and "DR". The outside of the valve body is 2 3/16" square, so I assume the valve is about 2 1/16".

[flyu2there]

That O Ring in the brass head, how's that look? Probably smart to change that out, everything else looks fine.

[dale farley]

John, The O ring looks okay, but I will probably change it if I can get it. You are saying "everything else looks fine", you don't mean the diaphragm looks good with that hole in it do you?

[mikedee]

The hole is normal, it is how the valve moves. The valve equalizes pressure with the hole allowing a small amount of energy to open the diaphragm.

I sent the whole deal to Goyen, we should hear something soon.

[Ray Davis]

That hole is what I (perhaps incorrectly) referred to as a "weep-hole" earlier in the thread. If it is gunked up the valve will not open, OR if it is open, it will not close. I had that issue with my CC.

It shouldn't cause a leak. Can you tell where it's leaking? It's probably a hole or tear near the edge of the diaphragm.

Ray

[Ray Davis]

Dale, it's a little hard to tell, but in the first picture, it looked like there was a tear in the gasket/diaphragm at around 9 oclock, and 6 oclock? Didn't see it in picture 3 though.

That whole piece is replaceable for about $6-10 as a repair kit. Let me know if you cannot locate a source, and I'll look for where I got mine.

Ray

[Coloradobus]

Found a new source for airvalves. http://www.swagelok.com/search/find_products_home.aspx?RESET=TRUE

[flyu2there]

Dale,

Where exactly is your valve leaking? Is it that valve itself, the body or is it that it fails to completely shut off the water when turned off? Should it be the later it probably should be called an internal leak in which case it the diaphragm or junk inside. Should it be the case of the unit itself leaking it is probably the O ring or a fitting perhaps even a hairline crack in the unit....can happen if was ever frozen with liquid inside.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

I was wondering the same things, what and where is it leaking?

JIM

[dale farley]

Unfortunately, I can't tell where the valve is leaking. All I know is that it drips when closed off. Also, when in the closed position, I can blow on it and hear a little air coming through the other side.

At first, I thought it was the hole in the diaphragm, but then I noticed it looked like a factory hole, so I decided that wasn't the source. The "O" ring looks fine, and I don't see any tears in the diaphragm, but I will inspect everything again when I get home from church today.

[dale farley]

Greg,

I missed your question yesterday. The valve is one of four that drain water from different sources (water heaters, water lines, fresh water tank, etc.) when you want to drain all the water from the bus. This particular valve drains the fresh water tank itself. When I shut it off, it has a small, constant drip.

[gmcbuffalo]

Dale if it is a drain valve why does it have a filter strainer on it? Are you sure you are looking at the drain valve?
That valve looks like it's in good condition.
GregM

[dale farley]

Greg,

It is definitely a drain valve, and yes, it looks like it is in excellent condition. I am sure the strainer is there to keep junk out of the valve. The valve connects to a short line that drains under the bus.

[dale farley]

I disassembled the vavle again today and thought I had it fixed, but it is still leaking one drop every 20 seconds. That is about half what it was to start with.

I think the problem is where the plunger attaches to the diaphragm. It appears there is a rubber seal on the end of the plunger that seats against a metal flange on the diaphragm. There is an indentation where it has been seated. I either have to rebuild the unit or replace it.

[dale farley]

The first picture shows the plunger attached to the diaphragm.

The second shows the plunger, removed and turned upside down.

The third shows the circle on the rubber on the end of the plunger. It is almost impossible to get the plunger to go back to this same circle when installing it. Of course, if it did go back, it would probably leak anyway. Because everything else looks fine, I think the rubber seal is the source of the leak.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Dale, that sure looks like the problem to me.

Can you pry out that center piece and turn it over?

It may be symmetrical and held in by friction or....

If the other side looks like new your home free.

JIM

[gmcbuffalo]

Dale does the hole in the center go all the way thru? I assume that this valve works as Normally close, if so could you strech the springs to put a little more pressure on the diaphram when it is closed?
Greg

[dale farley]

Jim,

I turned the rubber seal around. It was beveled on the other side, so I am not sure if it will give a completely flat surface for the plunger to mate with. If it strikes right in the center, it will be okay. I am going to install it again tomorrow and see what happens.

I am also ordering a repair kit, so if this doesn't work, I'll have it. If this does work, I'll have the kit as a backup. I have at least 4 of these valves.

[dreamchasers]

Dale,

What source are you ordering the kit from?

I need a couple of kits.

Hector

[dale farley]

Hector,

Hopefully, I will finalize something today, and I will post the source. There are not that many sources that I see on line, and I have not found it locally.

[flyu2there]

Still has not been made clear to me but it appears that you are talking about an internal leak, the valve drips water after closed rather than leaking on the floor near the valve. I also see that the piston in the solenoid appears to have a wear mark so perhaps, just perhaps the diaphragm is not being fully "pushed down". Fill the wear hole with contact cement or rubber cement...popsicle stick will work nicely and try it again....don't forget to be very neat about this operation :D

[mikedee]

I got a troubleshooting guide from Goyen and a parts identification guide.

The orders must be paid by credit card and faxed in. email your requests for pricing to,
Odette,
goyenwest@yahoo.com

Info at,
http://public.me.com/mjclarklmc

[dale farley]

Hector,

Mike Clark assisted me with the procurement of the valve repair kit. He has a contact that is probably our best bet with Goyen parts.

At Jim Chaloupka's recommendation I disassembled my valve again today and turned the little rubber seal over. It is now leaking one drop every 30 seconds. I will probably install the kit once I receive it.

John G., The leak I have is internal to the valve. It leaks out the drain tube.

[Ray Davis]

On my initial trip with my '93 CC I had one of the same valves fail. In my case it was on the valve which did the "auto-fill" stuff. I had attached the hose, hit the button, and the fresh water tank was filing up (all good).

But, when I turned the button off (the CC wasn't actually "auto"), the water didn't stop. The valve was dirty, and wouldn't close.

Now, I thought "shoot, that's no problem". IN my quick thinking, I turned off the water spigot. But when I turned on the water pump, because the valve was stuck open, the water pump just pumped water from the tank, back around through the stuck valve into the tank.

So for the remainder of that trip we had no water, no toilet no shower, other than using a bucket in the bathroom.

You don't want those valves sticking. The drain valve is a good one to stick if any are.

Ray

[rahangman]

This is a lengthy, but very informative Thread. My "New Problem" is I can't seem to drain my fresh water tank completely. I doubt that I am draining more than 1/4 of the tank . The bus has sat for a while (3months, my bad), went to drain fresh water tank to sanitize & refill and it started draining just fine. When I came back, it had stopped, and I did not realize it had not had time to drain completely. I went to sanitize & refill and , whoops about 5 minutes of direct water (not using auto fill as it is much slower) and it was overflowing! Did this 3 times, and still not getting to drain more than 1/4 estimate. About to go out and find out which valve is malfunctioning, but questioning (since the valve when shut off does not leak) how it is closing before I operate the switch to close?

[dale farley]

Rodger,

I assume you have a "normally-closed" valve, so it shouldn't leak when in the off position because it will stay closed. Maybe you are losing power to the valve or the valve is getting hot and closing on its on.

If you can put a voltmeter across the valve, you should be able to see if it is losing power during the draining process. If it does lose power, it could either be the valve or a problem in the circuit feeding the valve.

If you can put an amp meter in series with one side of the valve, you may be able to tell if it is getting hot and drawing more current than it should. If it does, you'll know the valve is bad.

[rahangman]

Well, I picked the hottest part of the day to do this. Checked all 3 valves in Water Compartment, 2 behind the 2 pumps, and 1 inside of those which is connected to the bottom of my fresh water tank...the 2 that are easy to get to of course are ok, good voltage and draining albeit slow, the one for the bottom of the tank is a trickle, but is pulling 12volts,(did not check amps). All 3 valves seem to click and I can feel the solenoid moving when power comes on/off. I turned on my pumps and am of course getting good exit of water from those 2 valves as well as a valve that is on opposite side of bus but still just a trickle from the bottom of the tank. This leads me to believe I am going to have to pull both pumps out and some associated wiring to access the valve to pull it out and either replace (probably) or try to repair with a kit. I might still try amp test, but my guess is that it is opening/closing ok, just no flow...probably some bug or something. Yech and before I forget it, thanks Dale for your input.