Steer Axle Bushings

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Our bus had a broken shock and it pulled to the right a little. There are two shocks on each side, 4 total for the steer axle. When a mechanic told me he was ordering me a new shock for the right tag where the top post had been snapped off I told him to get 1 more for the front, and install. I get a call back, now both shocks on the right front are broke and he believes its because of worn out bushings. I dont doubt this, 215000miles, it does pull that way and shocks are broken. Excuse me Jon if I misname the parts but for lack of a better term TORQUE ARMS. There are 5 of them up front, a bushing on each end. Cost of the bushings 6bucks each, labor, mabye 2 hours each arm? Anybody ever did this job? How hard can it be? Is this something that is normally at the end of its lifespan at 2000000 miles? These arent something that are greased. There kinda like the equal to control arm bushings on a car. I can imagine what the back axle is like, probably pretty much the same.

[dalej]

Joe when we bought our coach in 98 we heard a rattle under the floor. when we put new steer tires on the guy said there was a broken shock, hence the noise. After a new shock was added we drove the bus for a few thousand mile and another broken shock. The shocks wern't the right ones for the bus, Called prevost and ask for the right number of shock for the front, had my tire guy match the number up and it was fixed for good. So check to see if the right shocks are on your coach.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Joe,

So far I have not had to replace bushings. Shocks, yes, steering dampener, yes, but no bushings.

Out of curiosity however I asked Prevost what was involved in replacing the bushings. Bear in mind you have quite a few of them, both in front and the rear and they serve to position the axles, while allowing the normal up and down movement.

Prevost quoted 40 hours of labor. I can't say that I disagree with that number. If I get to the point where I will do mine, I already have the impact wrench and large size box and open end wrenches, and the only thing I would want would be an arbor press to push them out, and some come alongs or ratcheting straps to hold the various axles and other suspension members in place when I removed the swing arms and other parts with bushings.

I would also plan on a front and rear alignment when the job was done.

[lewpopp]

As you all must know, I just had the torsion arm bushings put in by Jacksonville. If I can remember correctly there were about 26 or 28 of them. New shocks also. The jobe took the better part of 4 days and some of the time there was 2 men working on it. J'ville had some power tools but not as many as Jon has.

The final bill was well over $4000.00. It was a job that I wouldn't take on in my best days.

The coach is about 95% happy now as far as steering. 100% happy with the owner.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Thanks Dalej I will check that. Lew, how many miles did your bus have when you did those pesky bushings? Lew, your supposto be proofreading the replies to my threads not giving incomplete replies like others, tighten it up a little uh?

[lewpopp]

Hey Joey, I had about 155,000 on the bugger. When the bushings came off, I could not see a thing wrong with them. I guess they loose their stiffness after years of use. Mine is a 90. I'm only sorry that I didn't change the front shocks but they told me that had been changed about 5 years ago.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Ill bet ya yhere were a lot of members groaning when you posted that answer.

[reelentless]

I have replaced all the shocks on my 97 and I am going to replace all the bushings when they come in. IBP has these bushings upgraded to a poly material instead of rubber. I live in Jacksonville and pick up my parts from the Prevost dealer here, I have not seen a lift in their shop to raise a coach but I can tell you that with my coach six feet up the task does not look that complicated to me, I guess I will see! I just finished the Prevost update for the air system which prevents the coach from squatting when low on air and replaced the check valve and regulator for the belt air bag systems, this update is for all coaches thru T5774 and of course mine is T5772!!! Any way it really did the job. I am thinking of rerouting the generator and Webatso exhausts out the sides instead of the back and make it match the Very BLING updated exhaust pipe from IBP, any thoughts on this??

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I routed my exhausts that way because my driveway pitches up so steep the transition from the road to the driveway would flatten the tips if I was not careful.

If you are interested I will post some photos. I brought the generator exhaust out the RH rear side, and the Webasto comes out under the door to the Webasto. Not a great solution but it keeps both from getting dinged on the driveway.

Roger Foster has both his exhausts exit on the LH side as a pair, angle cut and they look good and are protected from damage. Maybe Roger will also post a picture.

[win42]

Posts like the one's above almost make you wish you bought a plastic coach and trade it in every five years. This is brutal reality. Please don't scare me like this again.
Harry

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Who or what is IBP?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

This is pretty close to heaven for bus owners.

http://www.1800intlbus.com/

That will answer your previous question, Joe

[win42]

Creeper Crawling: For those of you that actually do want to join Jon in servicing your own bus.
Obtain three railroad ties or similar large timbers 6.5 x 9.5". In the center of two of them mark and saw across the short side at 62 degrees. Cut the third one 90 deg. across the middle. You now have four tapered pcs. and two straight pcs. Place two of the tapered pcs. in front of the the rear tires of your bus. Put the additional two strt. pcs in front of those blocks. Pull the coach forward up on to the tapered blocks and stop. Place the remainig tapered pcs. in front of the front tires. Pull the bus forward up on to the front blocks. The rears should be forward onto the strt. blocks now.Chock the tires front and rear. Put (heavy)jack stands or blocks under the bus support points per "Prevost body supportpoints.doc by
Jon Wehrenberg " Follow Jons step by step instructions to lube and other maintenence or repairs.
You now have enough room under the bus to creeper around and do maintenence. It would be better to have the pit as Jon has, but you can get it done this way.
Please don't let Lew see this, it's far too complicated for him to decifer. Besides he'll get his big tummy dirty scooting around under the bus.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I have actually had three different situations relative to accessing the underside of the bus.

The first few years I had no pit and no ramps. I raised the bus to its maximum height, put blocks under it to protect me against an air bag failure and once I slid in a creeper into the area between wheels I could sit up and do whatever I needed to do. There is nothing on our buses that I am aware of that will need maintenance outside the area between the wheels so I was able to do all my work without a pit.

The next level of access was when I had a depression put into the barn floor between the wheels. it went from under the front bumper all the way to the rear. It was about 8" deep and I could scoot on a creeper from front to rear. Again, if I raised the bus it made access even easier. It was less of a job moving around with the bus a little higher than if I was at floor level. Harry's ramps would accomplish the same as having an 8" depression.

When we built here in Knoxville and had the pit installed as part of the plans that has made all the difference in the world. Walking and standing under the bus cuts the time for a full lube and service to about half the time. It not only provides better access, but when you start getting into repairs you can't compare the amound of leverage you can put on a wrench while standing on your feet compared to sitting on your butt or kneeling.

But before anybody thinks they absolutely need a pit, I did all of the following without one: lube, fluid changes, filter changes, replaced air hoses, brake chambers, leveling valves, and air bags.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Gee Wizz, I was happy in the gravel across from my house until I read that reply:rolleyes: Relentless, keep us posted on that bushing replacement. Let us know the what you have learned when you are done. I will do the same! As soon as we get ours back from A/C repair I wanna do it.

[reelentless]

I was a plastic owner, It does not compare!! I just purchased a new exhaust pipe extention that matches the one I just replaced on the port side, I as I have said in the past I own repair shops and one of them has a very under used pipe bender, I am going to bring the Webasto and generator over to the starboard side I will take some pictures when I get done, If you feel like doing so I would like to see your approach, so please send your photos!

[rfoster]

Relentless:
As per Jon's suggestion - a couple of phots of my Webasto and Gen Exhaust out the drivers side:I had to be extremely careful not to expose to much bling:
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g31/parkwayautoofbristol/CIMG0774.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g31/parkwayautoofbristol/CIMG0775.jpg

[reelentless]

Sweet job!, I like the oval pipes, my coach is in Orlando getting a new paint job and a electric awning, I can't wait to get it back and finish it up! I have owned it since July and it has been under refirb. ever since. I think I will look at putting the heater pipes out on the left side like you have done, it will save a lot of work as opposed to taking it out the right rear. Thank you for the time and the pictures!

[dalej]

relentless, I have heard from vehichle systems in CO. that wabasto exaust can only be so long but don't remember the specs. Seems for exaust pressure reasons? maybe check just in case your moving it will cause problems.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Put the 10 suspension arm bushings in the 5 arms for the steer axle this evening. Started about 6 and finished up about midnight. There are 2 nut sizes 1 7/8in. and 15/16.
You can put a socket on the 1inch gun for taking off the tires and remove the 4 lower of the big nuts with that. I did pull both tires. A large 1 7/8 combination wrench gets the rest.
Took off one at a time, everything remained lined up perfect for reinstallation. Cut out the old ones out with a stanley knife, pushed the new ones in by hand with a little WD40.
Some were wore around the coller, some were starting to break down up inside, some were in beautiful condition. I think these are not the originals that I removed.
When reinstalling do not run the nuts with the lock rings all the way up with an impact, finish tightening them up with a wrench. There are some roll pins to line up and you can spin the lock with an impact if you are not real careful.
The mounting bracket that I removed from the front of the R-lower arm was broken allowing that to make noises sometimes. When I removed the nut the stud came with it. Not good. Once I took the arm down I could see where it was moving. At reassembly the stud wouldnt tighten correctly, too sloppy. I was actually happy to discover this because this is for sure the noise we have been hearing from time to time. Ill order new stuff tomorrow and that will be a quicke to swap out.
With the suspension all the way up in the front I blocked the frame and put the suspension switch back to normal allowing the frame to settle down on the blocks. That along with the tires off gave me plenty of room to work.
This is a job I know alot of you out there are capable of doing. If you have the tools at home to remove your tires you can do this job.
I was quoted up to 2 hrs. per arm by 5 arms by $75 per hr. That for us would have been a waste of money.
Only skinned 1 knuckle and feel pretty good now but I think Im gonna be a little stiff in the morning.

[dalej]

Joe, your the man! sound like a fun job. Now get some sleep.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Now that Ive rebushed the steer axle and found how easily and quickly I was able to complete the job I crawled under the back of the bus to get a look at all the suspension arms and bushings. There are 9 more arms for a total of 18 bushings for the rear 2 axles. There is more room to get at them than in the front. Ill be ordering the rest of the bushings on monday. Just buy what I can see now they look a little more wore out than the fronts. I had the front axle done in 6 hours and I didnt know what I was getting into. I estimate Ill have another 10 hours doing the 2 rear axles, but very likley, probably less. Was anybody else concidering having these done in the near future?

Prevost estimates 40 hrs?

Does this include repainting each arm, one at a time, and then including drying time for the paint in the labor costs or what?

Relentless, have you done yours yet?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Joe,

Come to POGII and put on a seminar. Forget working. You need a break from driving that truck.

A guy on the other site needs your advice. Help him out.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

All very good suggestions Jon:) Instead of a seminar lets just do someones bus. For instance, take a look behind your tag axle tire, if you remove it Ill bet ya the upper and lower arms can be removed in almost as little time as it takes to remove the tire! If anyone needs help with this project Im off all winter and would be happy to assist. We have a gas powered air compressor that will power my 1 inch impact I can put in my P/U. If you want to do a seminar on this at santa-fe mabye relentless could help if he is going, dont know? I have not turned a wheel all week with the dump with all the RAIN. If there was any chance we could go to POG2 it went away this week. We will however be at the next rally and would be happy to do that work then, wherever that might be. A guy on the other site hu? Hmmmmmmmm, wonder who that is?

Just another thought. A significant portion of the time was spent cleaning up the oriface on the rod where the bushing rides. They get corroded badly and I believe this probably contributes to the accelerated break down of the bushing. Rubber from the bushing gets pounded onto the rod so hard you almost have to grind it off. If I had more time to do this job I would have them powder coated. Not the entire rod, just where the bushing rides. You can only pull one arm per axle at a time but if you did all 3 axles at the same time and you could get a 1 day turn around on the powder coat it could be done in 5 days. Most of you probably arent going to keep your stuff long enough to go to this extreem. Wait a minute, powder coat the whole darn thing, this would qualify for BLING, wouldnt it? Jon, you could add this to your chrome slack adjusters and stainless brake chambers!

[lewpopp]

Jon has already had them painted with 3 coats of color and 2 clear coat. Catch up, will ya?

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Better late than never. We will do a full picture show when I get to the rears.
495
494
The old and the new. Just by what I can see by looking the tag axle bushings are probably a little more worn out than the one pictured.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Looking through the parts bin today I see 2 axles worth of radius rod bushings. After installing new ones on the steer axle I closed the box on the remainder of them. I'm thinking the drive axle I will do in Chicago. I was also concidering doing the tag axle at a rally but hesitate because I wonder just how many members would benefit from observing a project such as this:confused:

[Joe Cannarozzi]

I am finally getting around to installing the radius rod bushings on the tag and the drives. Since it looks like it will be a little longer before we make a rally and I am in there now and I'm doing them. When I did the steer axle I did not have a digital camera and so I am reviving this thread:o

Here is some initial photos.


This is the right tag tire off and the rear bushings on both the top and bottom rods.
4588

Here is a bushing that is just ever so slightly starting to go.
4589

This is the lower arm front bushing for the drive axle. This one is ripe. If you have any like this you need to replace them.
4590

Here is the rear bushing on the lower rod on the tag. It is dryrotted and all the shoulder is crumbling and deteriorated
4591

I did not start removal I ran out of daylight but I don't care, I got all summer:o

Stay tuned for more.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

I began to pull the radius rods off the tag. I could have used air tool but decided by the time I drug everything across the street I could have one off. I started late and would only have time to pull 1 anyway so I decided to see if it could be done with just some hand tools.


First you have a lock washer you need to bend back.
4597


Somewhere in the thread I posted the nut size and a socket on a 1/2 in impact zips these rite off but this way also only took a minute.
4598

The smaller nuts are 15/16 and all easily accessible
4599

4600

The front of this upper rod and it is removed similarly
4601

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Here is the end of the rod.
4604


I threaded the nut back on and drove it out
4605

A simple Stanley knife cut the old one loose
4606

This is actually where most of the time for this job will be. Cleaning the posts and end of the rods where the rubber has been POUNDED into and onto them
4607

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Here is the replacement. A block of wood and some W-D and presto.

4608

4609

I have found hub seal on this corner leaking. Good grief. It started just sitting here because I am sure it was not on the last trip. I had a drive hub leaking when we got it but this is the first tag/steer hub that has failed for us.

[Kenneth Brewer]

Joe, thank you. Your pictures are appreciated.

[phorner]

Great pictures Joe, and nice to have a narrative to go along.

Looks like you're keeping plenty busy!

[Joe Camper]

Here r some changes ive uncovered on a 2012, a chassis I'm currently under but not normally with a chassis so young.

14574

I was going to try to trick someone with this picture but I'll cut to the chase.

It looks like an upper a arm bushing and it very easily could be, but it isint.

It is a pic of a radius rod bushing on the tag axle on this 2012 and that Bush looks like the bushes they used in the upper arms when ifs first came out, also another part that has gone through 3 or 4 improvement or changes between then and now. I know of 4 different upper arms over the run with ifs.

The drive axle still sports the radius rods with the older style rubber donuts.

Lewpop lives on forever.