DANGER....INSPECTION REQUIRED

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Over the last several years I have been aware that the electric box in the rear of our coaches may break away and drop down onto the engine.

Let me repeat that for purposes of emphasis. The big box in the rear over our engines with all the electrical connections can come loose from its fastenings and drop onto the engine. This is a serious hazard that should be considered unsafe until the mounting is reinforced or new fasteners are used.

I have monitored my electric box mounting integrity routinely, as recently as upon arriving in OKC, and when I got home I realized the mounting rivets had failed and the box was sitting on top of the air intake tube.

On my box there are two terminals extending from the bottom and they were both in contact with the metal air intake tube, but as near as I can determine there was no electric short as a result.

The photos below show the attachment brackets. The failure was of the four pop rivets in each brakcket. The brackets remain secured to the rear bulkhead, but the rivets attaching the brakets to the box failed in tension, not shear as I would have expected. The failure was due to galvanic corrosion.

If the box on your coach is secure I recommend leaving it as it is and secure the box to the top of the bulkhead using an angle or to the sides of the box and bracket using flat strips. The electrical mounting panel appears to be a piece of masonite and it is at least 3/4" off of the back of the outer electrical box so any screws you use to secure the box can extend into that area.

[Orren Zook]

Thanks for the heads up on this, Jon

[lonesome george]

THANK YOU JON!! I'll be scheming on a countermeasure this evening. And did I say Thank you?

[truk4u]

I forgot all about that deal, but will be reinforcing mine ASAP. Thank's for the up close and personal reminder Jon.;)

[phorner]

WOW! That is scary stuff! I'll be checking mine in the morning.

Thanks, Jon for the heads-up.

[dale farley]

I'll be checking mine also. Thanks for the heads-up.

[GDeen]

Thanks Jon - glad to hear there wasn't a serious problem as a result.

Would be handy to have a section on the forum dedicated specifically to these type of issues that need to be checked periodically to prevent a trainwreck. 2 other threads in the last couple of days of similar stuff - the hydraulic hoses and Hector's door problem come to mind. A separate index from all the other discussion to make it easy to keep up with. Just sayin...

[Kenneth Brewer]

"the electric box in the rear of our coaches may break away and drop down onto the engine."

Stupid question: I don't really know if this is a problem on H3s. I don't seem to recall (not parked here at home) any box over the engine itself. I think just the flat floor over the block, and everything else either in the compartments on either side just ahead of the engine, or behind it. Would you be able to say, Jon? Thanks.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I can't say if this issue is related to H3 coaches, or even the XLII for that matter.

For those that intend to check the integrity of the box mount, I checked mine at OKC and 880 miles later found it sitting on my engine. My practice was to grab it and tug a little. Obviously that was not a reliable way to check the fastenings. In retrospect if I did manage to cause the box to come loose by tugging on it I don't know how I would have dealt with it at OKC if it did come loose.

To reattach the support brackets to the box I had to remove a lot of minor stuff like the oil pressure gauge and sender and drop it out of the way. cut a lot of cable ties so I could flex the box down further to access the rear, I had to get the air intake tube out, and ironically I had to remove the hoses from the header tank (see the thread about replacing those) so the box could be reoriented. I spent several hours to get the brackets reattached and the box back in place and I had the luxury of my garage and all my tools. Out on the road such as in the OKC campground the problem would not have been easily resolved.

I now have new pop rivets holding the brackets in place and I went to larger screws to secure the brackets to the bulkhead, but now I have to make additional parts to do a better job of securing it because I now know the pop rivets will fail again in a decade or so.

My point is I don't think it can be checked. Assume it will fall, and use your imagination to create additional supports to secure the box to the bulkhead so you are not relying on pop rivets as the sole means of support.

The design of this method of supporting the box is very poor and I am willing to bet that over time every single box in the entire Prevost fleet is going to drop down.

[tdelorme]

Well great, you wait until we're 500 miles into an 1800 mile one way trip and then you post two new issues for me to worry about. If those hoses break or the damn box falls off, it's your fauld, A1!!
Yes dear, I know it's hot and scary sitting on the engine and holding the box, but just a few more miles and we'll be at Jon's house.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

If there is enough interest I will design a few pieces (my brain hasn't gotten that far yet) and see if I can get a price on the parts. I doubt if we are talking about more than $10 or $15. Right now I am thinking about some angles at the top secured to the top of the box and the bulkhead and a strip on each side to secure the box to the brackets. It will involve some drilling and the use of sheet metal screws, but it will be a permanent repair.

This will be a one shot deal so I will need a head count. While we are tallying up the numbers I will start trying to figure out a design for the parts.

In the interest of full disclosure I will buy these parts from Jamestown Advanced Products which is owned by my daughter and I will sell them at my cost. This is not a profit making endeavor.

[tdelorme]

Jan would like one set of repair brackets please. Thanks, Jon

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Please add a set for me.


JIM CHALOUPKA
14035 GAR Highway
Chardon,OH 44024




JIM

[0533]

Jon,

It might well be worth sharing all of this with the folks at Prevost Car in Quebec. I met these 2 gentleman while getting service at the factory service center, found that they know more about these buses than anyone I have met so far on any subject related to the chassis. Great resource.

guillaume.charron@volvo.com

Guillaume Charron | Gérant de Succursale- St-Nicolas- Branch Manager

Prévost Car Inc.

850 Chemin Olivier

St-Nicolas, QC

G7A 2N1, Canada
Tel.: +1 418 831-2046 x 228 | Cell.: +1 418 554-0785 | Fax: +1 418 831-7432


Jean Ruel
Regional Service Manager
Prevost Car
1-800-380-7738

jean.ruel@volvo.com

[Denny]

Jon, Count me in.

[GDeen]

I am interested....

[phorner]

Jon,

Please count me in.

Thanks.....:)

[dale farley]

Jon, I want a set. This would probably be a simpler process if we could have a link to click on and just add our names, so Jon wouldn't have to track all the posts in order to compile a list. We would probably need to start a new thread with a link in the first post.

[BUSTER]

Please count me in.

Thanks

[Jon Wehrenberg]

As soon as everyone that wants support brackets has had a chance to indicate so I will get a price and post a drawing of what I think will work.

My daughter Wendi doesn't know it yet, but I am going to see if she can receive the orders direct, accept credit card payment and UPS them out along with installation instructions to all who are interested.

The price is volume sensitive, that's why I am waiting a while.

[JIM KELLER]

Me too please !

[dreamchasers]

Count Hector in please.

Hector

[michaeldterry]

Put me down for a set, please!

[Richard Barnes]

Jon,

Count me in and thanks!

[bluevost]

Jon,

Put me down for a set as well. Thanks in advance.

Ken

[LarryB]

Please put me down for a set, Thanks.

[truk4u]

Count me in!

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Jon, do you know are there any wires between the metal box and the Masonite mounting panel at the back of the box.
I want to hole saw a hole through the Masonite to access the back of the metal box, to re-fasten it to the bracket.

I gave the box a little tug and it partially come loose of the mounting bracket on the left side, not the bulkhead.
I intend to use 3/16 blind rivets.

JIM

[hobobimmer]

Deb/Eric would like a set if they will work on an 8V92 engine bay.

Thanks.

Eric Faires
92 Angola

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jim (and all of you actually),

I do not believe there are any wires behind the masonite. I looked specifically for that tonight and could see no evidence, so if you can use an oversized drill to get a hole in the masonite for purposes of at least getting a sheet metal screw or a pop rivet from the box through the bracket it should give piece of mind. I think Jim is going to find once he gets the open hole through the masonite, he will need to drill a tap size hole for a #8 (minimum) or #10 sheet metal screw. I don't think a pop rivet can be installed because the masonite will prevent the tool from bottoming on the pop rivet unless it has a long tip, and then I would be scared of it possibly damaging or loosening the relays or terminals. A screw would go much easier.

The photo below illustratesto an extent the difficulty we are faced with. The photo is of the passenger side of the box and as can be seen the bracket to which the box is mounted is aligned with the outside edge of the box, It is only about a 1 1/2 wide flange, so the holes drilled have to be within about 3/4 inch of the box sides, not the easiest location to drill, Adding to the issue is the hole needs to go between the upper light switch and the rear/front selector switch, probably requiring a very long drill bit, unless the switches are temporarily removed. Obviously please turn off the chassis battery swtiches, but keep in mind there will still be some electric in the box even with the switches off.

The original pop rivets were 3/16 and I suggest you get as many fasteners in each side as you can. Jim has evidently found his electric box was ready to fail so those of you that have 96 chassis coaches or older you may also have a failure imminent.

[aggies09]

The Conder's would like a set as well. Thanks.

[garyde]

Ill take a set. Has anyone asked Prevost about a
Recall?

[Larry W]

Put my name on the list for the fix

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Gary,

I will send an email off to Bill Jensen and ask about a recall. I know of one coach with a 98 shell that had the same failure as mine and Jim C. has one that is loose, and my previous coach had the same problem so I don't know if that is enough for them to deem a recall necessary, but I will ask.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

When that link is repaired/replaced there is another waiting to fail!

Prevost did a fine job creating the XL lineup and to expect something like the loosening to be covered, well I don't think so.

When we correct the issue there is sure to be something else that will show up in the future, how perfect do you expect a product to be!



It looks to me that a fix is possible with a piece of 2"x2"x1/16" angle about 20" to 24" long and with the angle bent appropriately to fit against the top of the box and the boxed frame member that is over the box.
You would thus screw or rivet into each in six or eight places and that would firmly fix the cabinet/box.

The only questionable issue I have is weather there are any wires or related items in the boxes frame member that could be damaged by drilling into it for the fasteners.

Jon, I think you could make these from polished stainless and have "Jamestown Advanced Products" laser cut into them and thus pass them out free as advertisement. :eek::D:D


JIM

[hobobimmer]

Jon, I think you could make these from polished stainless and have "Jamestown Advanced Products" laser cut into them and thus pass them out free as advertisement. :eek::D:D

JIM

Jim:

It probably goes without saying, but I think that was (without a doubt) everyone's expectation, that the stainless would be polished, and come with laser cut advertising for the manufacturer, and installed by Jon for free on each of our buses at the next rally. I guess I really should not speak for the other POG members, but that was my expectation.

Eric Faires
Huntsville, TN
92 Angola 40 foot

[Jon Wehrenberg]

We are into a repair design discussion here (ignoring the remarks regarding polishing, advertising, and installation by Jon) and that was a consideration.

If you look at the box in the installed position drilling the holes in the top rear as described by Jim is feasible, but space is a consideration and it may be required to remove the screws holding the side brackets to the bulkhead to tip the box forward to facilitate drilling.

It still leaves the bottom unsecured in the even the rivets fail and it could conceivably swing forward if they did fail and the top angle as described was in place.

FWIW the pop rivets in the door hinges can also fail and did on both my coaches. One was top hinged (the current one) and the other was bottom hinged. I have been considering trying to design a bracket that uses existing holes to make installation easier for those who don't have tools such as 90 degree drills.

Eric, wait for me to come to Huntsville to install yours. Keep waiting. I'll be there soon so don't go away. Keep waiting. I'll get there. Soon. Real soon.

[jimshoen]

Jon,
I am in for the fix also. Maybe Prevost could help on the design.:D

[grantracy]

John: count me in as well. Thanks GT

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Prevost has had some coaches with the problem according to Bill Jensen and has recommended replacing the aluminum pop rivets with a larger diameter stainless steel pop rivet.

I agree if the box has fallen or is in imminent danger of falling this would be the best fix. However, if the box is still secure I will work on developing an external fix in the form of a bracket or angles or some other means of providing support to the box so it will not fall from its intended position.

As soon as I have a recommendation I will post it. Ideas accepted. George Phillips has already sent a design suggestion.

[dale farley]

I checked my box, and it is perfectly stable, but I woud still like to know I have guarded against a future failure of the rivets.

[HarborBus]

I'll take one also. I have checked my XL II it appears to be the same set up, mine is snug now but better safe than sorry. Thanks for the heads up.

[rahangman]

I checked mine this AM and it is sound and sturdy. I noted that it was not riveted but large screws holding it to the bulhead with a sealing substance smeared around as though to keep the screws in place. Not shiny but then, it was really solid.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

The fasteners going through the bracket into the coach bulkhead are not the issue. The problem is the four pop rivets through the bracket, into the rear of the box, not visible until the box separates from the bracket are the weak point. Hangman is correct. The bracket is attached to the coach bulkhead and has some kind of sealant or caulking between it and the bulkhead. There is no sealant or caulking between the box and the side brackets.

[jello_jeep]

Me too Jon...

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Progress is being made.

I am having a prototype of the design being made and with any luck I will have it installed on my coach and checked before I leave for Tampa.

I will post photos of it here (assuming it works as expected) and will get the brackets produced.

If the brackets work as planned some existing holes will be used and only 4 holes (into the box) will have to be drilled. I will include installation instructions with the brackets. If things work out the price will be free. This is a one shot deal, so if you are interested post it here. What would make it easier on my end would be if someone can gather up all the mailing addresses and email the list to me. Put them in a format so I can just cut the addresses out and use them as postage labels.

Boilerplate: The true fix for the problem is as described by Bill Jensen, and that is to use stainless steel pop rivets in place of the aluminum pop rivets installed by the factory. Increasing the size of the rivets was also recommended. I know from my repair work that to do that requires the box to be removed, layed on its face (requiring further disassembly such as some hoses and the oil pressure gauge and associated lines), the old rivets drilled out, enlarged holes, and new stainless steel pop rivets installed.

The brackets will serve as a temporary fix until such time as that work can be done, or as an alternative will supplement the existing pop rivets. It is important that even with the brackets in place the integrity of the original pop rivets be checked periodically, and if loose or broken they should be replaced.

[gmcbuffalo]

Jon I would like a set.
GregM

[rahangman]

Jon, thanks for the clarification and your follow up. I would like a set also please

[Journeyone144]

If my set up is in danger I too would buy a set of the brackets Jon..
Thank you...
Viv

[hobobimmer]

What would make it easier on my end would be if someone can gather up all the mailing addresses and email the list to me. Put them in a format so I can just cut the addresses out and use them as postage labels.

Eric Faires volunteers for this duty, so send me Private Message on this list in following format.

Full Name
Mailing Address
City, State, Zip

If you live in a warm area, I might even hand deliver your set via motorcycle.

Eric Faires
Huntsville, TN
92 Angola 40 foot

[hobobimmer]

Eric Faires volunteers for this duty, so send me Private Message on this list in following format.

Full Name
Mailing Address
City, State, Zip

Eric Faires

I have received mailing addresses from eight people so far. Just had this thought, and sorry to bother those of you who have already responded, but if the items will be shipped UPS, they like to have phone number. So, PLEASE ADD YOUR PHONE NUMBER when you respond to me, and for the eight of you (Michael Terry, Paul Horner, Greg Meiling, Dale Farley, Jim Chaloupka, Ted DeLorme, Elliott McLeod, and Ray Davis) who have already responded to me via Private Message, would you please send me another WITH your phone number? Thank you all.

Eric Faires
Huntsville, TN

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I was thinking of regular mail. As opposed to supporting the gummint that I am, I am making a concession to my lazy side. No phone number's needed.

[GDeen]

thanks Eric and Jon....

[hobobimmer]

thanks Eric and Jon....

To Jon go all thanks for identifying issue, engineering a solution, and knowing "someone" with the ability and willingness to manufacture the solution, all at an extremely attractive price. I'm simply writing names and addresses down as they come in via Private Message. I think I"m at 20 names so far (including Jon). Guess I should go through this Thread to see how many folks said they want a set if they have not sent me a PM yet.

Eric Faires

[hobobimmer]

I just rolled through all posts in the Thread. Here are the names who said they want a set but have not yet sent me their mailing addresses.

Mike/Jean Simmons
Hector Duplichen
Richard Barnes
Ken Zittrer
Tom Chilcote
Tony Conder
Gary Deinhard
Larry W.
Jim Shoen
Rodger and Faye (rahangman)
Vivian

Those of you in list above, please send me your snail mail address so I can compile list for Jon when it's time to mail the brackets. Thank you all.

Eric Faires
Huntsville, TN

[ajducote]

I will take a set, just sent Eric my mailing address in private msg.

Jon & Eric,
Thanks for doing this.

[Denny]

Eric,
Please list those who you already have so no one slips through the cracks.

Thanks.

[hobobimmer]

Eric,
Please list those who you already have so no one slips through the cracks.

Thanks.


There will be no slipping through cracks. List is comprehensive either from post on this Thread or PM to me or email response to my request for their address. Folks for whom I do not yet have addresses have been contacted by email if they have an email listed on POG.

Here is list I have so far, with addresses.

Richard Barnes (GA)
Larry Beer (WA)
John Browder (TN)
Jim Chaloupka (OH)
Tony Conder (TX)
Ray Davis (CA)
Gordon Deen (TX)
Gary Deinhard (CA)
Ted DeLorme (TX)
Andre Ducote (FL)
Eric Faires (TN)
Dale Farley (FL)
Patrick Fix (TX)
Rodger Hang (AR)
Warren Holm (CA)
Paul Horner (FL)
Jim Keller (FL)
Elliott McLeod (WA)
Greg Meiling (OR)
Pete Petree (TX)
George Phillips (IN)
Denny Robb (OH)
Mike Simmons (CA)
Kim Sloan (FL)
Dan Smith (MS)
Michael Terry (GA)
Granvil Tracy (FL)
Larry Walker (CO)

No addresses yet list.

Tom Chilcote (GA)
Hector Duplichen (TX)
Jim Shoen (?)
Vivian ______ (NJ)
Ken Zittrer (CA)

[Wahoo]

Count me in too. Will pm info.

[Will Garner]

Eric,

Add me to the list. I have already had to replace the rivets on the enclosure door hinge. I'd guess the ones holding the enclosure to the rear firewall will be next.

W. C. Garner, Jr.
325 Country Club Drive
Southern Pines, NC
28387

(910) 690-5631

Hope they get here before the enclosure falls off!

[truk4u]

Jon,

After looking real close at my panel, it doesn't have the same style bracket as yours. Mine has a steel lip (flat channel) on the two sides and bottom that seems to be be part of the box and is screwed to the bulkhead. It doesn't appear to be a bracket. The box has been tack welded to the bulkhead at the top.

What am I missing? Could mine be better than yours....:p


5785
Right side

5786
Box is tack welded in the dark area below the obvious two spot welds

5787
Left bottom side

[billbunch47]

Jon I checked my box and all seems good and tight but might as well add my name to the list for a set, Thanks Bill

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Truk,

You do not have the bracket to which the box is riveted. yours appears to have the box built with a flange that is screwed to the bulkhead. The screws have not failed, but on the boxes with the bracket it is the pop rivets holding the box to the bracket which have failed.

Check your door hinge rivets. They are generally the first to fail.

[hobobimmer]

Here is updated list of 35 sets so far.


Here is list I have so far, with addresses.

Richard Barnes (GA)
Larry Beer (WA)
Buzz Browder (FL)
Bill Bunch (SC)
Jim Chaloupka (OH)
Tom Chilcote (GA)
Tony Conder (TX)
Ray Davis (CA)
Gordon Deen (TX)
Gary Deinhard (CA)
Ted DeLorme (TX)
Andre Ducote (FL)
Hector Duplichen (TX)
Eric Faires (TN)
Dale Farley (FL)
Patrick Fix (TX)
Rodger Hang (AR)
Warren Holm (CA)
Paul Horner (FL)
Jim Keller (FL)
Elliott McLeod (WA)
Greg Meiling (OR)
Pete Petree (TX)
George Phillips (IN)
Denny Robb (OH)
Mike Simmons (CA)
Kim Sloan (FL)
Dan Smith (MS)
Michael Terry (GA)
Granvil Tracy (FL)
Larry Walker (CO)
Jon Wehrenberg (TN)
Ken Zittrer (CA)


No addresses yet list.

Jim Shoen (?)
Vivian ______ (NJ)

[Kevin Erion]

I would like to add something to look for when inspecting your rear electrical box. With the door open, you will find on the inside roof an aluminum inner roof attached with rivets. I had 2 of my rivets holding this inner roof broken. This aluminum panel is what Prevost attaches all the relays and other items to. It would not be a good thing if this broke free!

[travelite]

Have you guys considered fastening the bracket to the box with rivnuts instead of rivets?

David Brady
'02 Blue Bird, Wanderlodge, LXi,
Asheville, NC

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Unless the box has fallen down it is a major PITA to drop it down, drill out existing pop rivets and resecure the bracket to the box. The rear of the electric box inside is not accessible because of the masonite board that has been populated with terminals, relays, resistors, diodes and circuit breakers.

Getting the box down and on its face so the pop rivets are accessible involves not only removing the screws holding the brackets to the bus bulkhead, but also cutting a number of nylon ties, removing some small coolant lines and removing the rear oil pressure gauge and sending unit. Without a doubt rivnuts would work but I doubt if many here want to go to the effort.

What the goal is here is to reinforce all boxes that have not had a failure of the pop rivets so the total reliance on the pop rivets is supplemented with a second bracket that can carry some of the load and possibly prevent the pop rivets from failing.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

The prototype angle brackets have been installed and the installation was simple and only took an hour, and that included taking photos.

Eric has been collecting addresses and when the brackets are manufactured the addresses will be used for the shipping labels. This is the last chance for anyone that needs the brackets to reinforce the electric box to let Eric know your address.

Below are photos of the brackets installed.

[truk4u]

I suggest a donation be collected for the brackets and sent to Jon's Daughter's Company for all the work or to Pilots & Paws, Jon's call! How about 30.00 per bus?;)

[hobobimmer]

Eric has been collecting addresses and when the brackets are manufactured the addresses will be used for the shipping labels. This is the last chance for anyone that needs the brackets to reinforce the electric box to let Eric know your address.

Still need snail mail addresses from Vivian and Jim Shoen. In addition, since the "Install Instructions" will be sent to each of you via email, I will need your email address where you will want "Install Instructions" sent. Sorry I didn't get this information from you all earlier, and I don't know many of the nicknames (screen names) you all use on POG sit, so please send me Private Message (just like you did when sending me your snail mail address) with your email so I can put it next to your name for sending the Install Instructions.

Thank you all.

Eric Faires

[Sid Tuls]

Eric, if it's not to late I also would like a set. I will send you my info. Thanks

[hobobimmer]

Howdy all from beautiful East Tennessee.

I did better than I thought finding email addresses on the POG site.

Below is list of folks for whom I have snail mail addresses. Double Asterisk (**) indicates I have found your email address on POG site so DO NOT NEED TO SEND THAT TO ME. If no ** by your name, send me your email address please via Private Message on POG site. Thanks.

Eric Faires
Huntsville, TN

Richard Barnes** (GA)
Larry Beer (WA)
Robert Boies** (SC)
Buzz Browder (FL)
Bill Bunch** (SC)
Jim Chaloupka** (OH)
Tom Chilcote** (GA)
Tony Conder** (TX)
Ray Davis** (CA)
Gordon Deen** (TX)
Gary Deinhard (CA)
Ted DeLorme** (TX)
Andre Ducote** (FL)
Hector Duplichen** (TX)
Brian Esler** (WA)
Eric Faires (TN)
Dale Farley** (FL)
Patrick Fix (TX)
Rodger Hang** (AR)
Warren Holm** (CA)
Paul Horner** (FL)
Jim Keller** (FL)
Elliott McLeod (WA)
Greg Meiling** (OR)
Pete Petree (TX)
George Phillips** (IN)
Denny Robb** (OH)
Mike Simmons** (CA)
Kim Sloan (FL)
Dan Smith** (MS)
Michael Terry** (GA)
Granvil Tracy** (FL)
Sid Tuls** (CA)
Larry Walker (CO)
Jon Wehrenberg** (TN)
Ken Zittrer** (CA)


No snail mail addresses yet list.

Jim Shoen (?)
Vivian ______** (NJ)

[Jon Wehrenberg]

In case the seriousness of having the electric box come loose hasn't been well enough explained, I took a photo yesterday of the bottom of my electric box showing the electric posts. On the left is the ground post. The two posts to the right are 12V and 24V DC. If you look inside the box you will see these are fed by very large cables so the potential is significant.

Thank goodness the caps on my box are insulated and the caps did not fail when the box came loose. If the insulation on the posts had failed I would have had a dead short because the ground post and the 12V and 24V posts were all sitting on the air intake tube and the paint had worn to bare metal.

A short would have tripped the major chassis circuit breakers, and the result would have been a bus that suddenly stopped running. I cannot predict what other damage could have occurred, but can say sufficient current could have flowed to blow holes in the intake tube.

I am having some extra sets made so if you do want to be added to the list let Eric have your snail mail and email address. If anyone wants more details of what is involved let Eric have your email address and he can forward the installation instructions.

[hobobimmer]

Below is list of folks to whom I have sent, via email, the "Install Instructions" from Jon Wehrenberg.

Eric Faires
Huntsville, TN

This is the list of folks I emailed "Install Instructions" to earlier this evening. If you didn't get the email from me, send me a Private Message on POG and I'll resend. Better give me your email address again, too, if I messed it up the first time.

Richard Barnes** (GA) - SENT
Robert Boies** (SC) - SENT
Bill Bunch** (SC) - SENT
Jim Chaloupka** (OH) - SENT
Tom Chilcote** (GA) - SENT
Tony Conder** (TX) - SENT
Ray Davis** (CA) - SENT
Gordon Deen** (TX) - SENT
Ted DeLorme** (TX) - SENT
Andre Ducote** (FL) - SENT
Hector Duplichen** (TX) - SENT
Brian Esler** (WA) - SENT
Eric Faires (TN) - SENT
Dale Farley** (FL) - SENT
Rodger Hang** (AR) - SENT
Warren Holm** (CA) - SENT
Paul Horner** (FL) - SENT
Jim Keller** (FL) - SENT
Greg Meiling** (OR) - SENT
Pete Petree** (TX) - SENT
George Phillips** (IN) - SENT
Denny Robb** (OH) - SENT
Mike Simmons** (CA) - SENT
Dan Smith** (MS) - SENT
Gary Stevens** (TX) - SENT
Michael Terry** (GA) - SENT
Granvil Tracy** (FL) - SENT
Sid Tuls** (CA) - SENT
Larry Walker** (CO) - SENT
Jon Wehrenberg** (TN)
Ken Zittrer** (CA) - SENT
Vivian ______** (NJ) - SENT


No email addresses from these folks, so no instructions sent yet.

Larry Beer (WA)
Buzz Browder (FL)
Gary Deinhard (CA)
Patrick Fix (TX)
Elliott McLeod (WA)
Jim Shoen (?)
Kim Sloan (FL)

[Sid Tuls]

Hi Eric, thanks for sending the instructions. I couldn't open the attachment and was wondering if anybody else was having the same problem? Maybe it's me:confused:

[dale farley]

Sid,

I couldn't open it at first, because I don't have Microsoft Works on my computer. I just upgraded to Windows 7. I used Microsoft Word to open the file, and it worked fine.

[Sid Tuls]

Thanks Dale I'll e-mail it to my boys e-mail @ the ranch and have him try it. Thank-you

[Jon Wehrenberg]

If problems with opening the file exist perhaps I can send it to Jim Skiff and he can post it as an article. I would want it removed from the POG site within a short period of time because this is a one time offer and I wouldn't want new future members to get frustrated trying to get brackets that aren't going to be made again.

[hobobimmer]

If problems with opening the file exist perhaps I can send it to Jim Skiff and he can post it as an article. I would want it removed from the POG site within a short period of time because this is a one time offer and I wouldn't want new future members to get frustrated trying to get brackets that aren't going to be made again.

If anyone can not open it, just send me an email and we'll resend in another format. I've already done this for a number of people this morning after Deb showed me how. I'm happy to do it for others, too. Just respond on the email I sent you, and that will be my trigger to resend. Thanks.

Eric Faires

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

If anyone can not open it, just send me an email and we'll resend in another format. I've already done this for a number of people this morning after Deb showed me how. I'm happy to do it for others, too. Just respond on the email I sent you, and that will be my trigger to resend. Thanks. Eric Faires

Thanks Eric and Debie for the additional work involved getting some of us the installation information. I recieved it and am able to reveiw it just fine.

Thanks again Jon, for you and your daughters work on this.

Now if I can only get this project done, without screwing something else up on the bus ? :eek: :D

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Since I just did this on my bus I can say that unless your coach has some obstructions I do not have, the installation should be easy and not involve a lot of time.

The only precaution I would suggest is that as you drill in the vicinity of the wire bundles you use extra care to make sure the drill does not slip or the bit does not break. You want to take pains to not risk damaging the insulation on the wires in those bundles. I found there was ample room to drill the holes without coming close to the wires.

[CAPT MOGUL & Sandy]

Jon
Would you think that if the box is secure now that added bolts and rivets would alieviate the need for the reinforcements?

Ed

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I checked my box before the OKC trip. I knew from experience and another owner that the box can drop onto the engine. My box prior to the trip was secure and I did not detect any broken rivets.

When we got home 1750 miles later the box that I thought was secure was laying on the engine intake tubing coming from the intercooler.

So my first response is we do not know if these are secure. Bill Jensen checked with Prevost Canada and said the real fix is to drill out the rivets, increase the holes to 1/4" and use 1/4" stainless steel pop rivets in place of the 3/16" aluminum rivets installed at the factory. That may be the ultimate repair, but I know that is not easy to do because just replacing the original rivets on my box involved some work.

The brackets I am supplying are not intended to be a permanent fix, but will keep the box from dropping if the rivets fail. I just do not know if they will fail, or if they will, when that will happen.

The bracket attachment to the box is via screws that are perpendicular to the pop rivets, so if the rivets do fail the screws are not in tension, like the rivets, but will be held in shear. I think we will recognize the box has failed rivets and then can make the permanent repair because at that time it will be necessary. I replaced my rivets with the originals prior to talking to Bill Jensen otherwise I would have used the oversize stainless rivets.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

All the angles have been inserted in their shipping envelopes and on Monday morning when the post office opens I will be sending them out to all who have provided Eric (or Debbie) with their address.

I believe he has emailed all who are on the list the installation instructions so by the end of the week you all should be good to go.

If there are any questions, post them here since they might benefit all.

IF YOU CHOOSE TO NOT REINFORCE THE MOUNTING OF YOUR REAR ELECTRIC BOX AT THE VERY LEAST CHECK THE POSTS AT THE BOTTOM OUTSIDE OF THE BOX AND MAKE CERTAIN THOSE POSTS ARE NOT LIVE. IF YOU CAN GET A VOLTAGE READING OFF ANY POST, IF YOUR ELECTRIC BOX COMES LOOSE FROM THE SUPPORTS IT WILL COME IN CONTACT WITH METAL CREATING A SHORT. THAT SHORT CIRCUIT MAY TRIP THE BUS MASTER ELECTRIC CIRCUIT BREAKERS AND YOUR BUS WILL STOP RUNNING INSTANTLY.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I am almost ready to send out the last of the electric box brackets. I am sending them out to Alek, Harborbus and Jim Shoen.

If anyone else needs a set send me a PM or email with your address. I only have a limited number remaining so first come first served.

[HarborBus]

Jon, I sent you a PM a couple days ago. I got my brackets, so I'm good, thanks

Elliott McLeod
Harborbus