Firestone Tires

[tdelorme]

I've got new Michelins on the front, but the drive and tags are going on 8 years old and I started looking around. There are some real strange names on tires these days and apparently just about all of todays tires are made in China or Japan. I hunted for Jon's Double Coin brand but while several dealers had heard of DC, no one had a source. Prices all over the board. A low of $375 for a twenty ply Chinese tire that the dealer says he sells a ton of to garbage hauling outfits. I ended up buying six Firestones with a price of $504 each mounted and Equal installed. Nice looking highway tread and typical truck tire warranty. I guess I should have ask first, but has anyone run Firestones on their bus? I'm not looking back now, and the install is set for next Monday, but if there are comments good or bad, I'd like to hear um.

[rmboies]

Hey Ted--Message from Bob via his slave typist<g>

I put eight Double Coin tires on our '05 Millennium... had nothing but trouble with them--side wall separation, out of round, just not a good experience. They took them back, full refund, and I replaced them with eight Firestone FS400's using the Counteract steel balancing beads. I now have 1500 miles on the tires and they are the smoothest running set of tires I have ever had on a coach and I have had a few :D
Bob

[tdelorme]

Tell Bob thanks, Debbie. Also tell him his "slave typist" deserves a raise. I appreciate your effort, Ted

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Ted, what was the size of the Firestones you purchased?

JIM

[dale farley]

Ted, I have 6 Firestones on the rear of our bus. They are about 2 1/2 years old, and we've had no problem with them. I would buy them again.

[Orren Zook]

The two largest charter fleets around here use the Firestone FS400 tires exclusively, one shop foreman told me they get double the mileage of the Michelin tires. I just put four on my drives (315/80R22.5 @ $475 each) based on his recommendation.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Just looking around and found this:

This is one year old, but I thought I would post it anyway, just incase.

Also what's this about the 55mph limit on the Firestone tires, or did I misinterpret what was printed.



http://www.usrecallnews.com/2008/09/nhtsa-1996.html


JIM

[ajducote]

On the Firestone site there is a pdf with this information:
http://www.firestonetrucktires.com/us_eng/load/index.asp


Look at page 17

Cut and Paste did not work so well, but the last entry is the speed.
Load range "J" 75MPH
Load range "L" 55 MPH

FS400
315/80R22.5 † J 216-109 145 9.00 42.4 12.4 19.7 13.9 490 18 3750@830 8270@120 3450@830 7610@120 75
315/80R22.5 † L 216-126 146 9.00 42.4 12.4 19.7 13.9 490 18 4125@900 9090@130 3750@900 8270@130 55
† Requires the use of a 9.00 rim to carry over 8000 lbs.

[Loc]

When I replaced the tires last summer, the only Firestone tires I could find in a 315x80R22.5 had a G load rating. The tires on the bus were a L load rating. I went back with the Michelins because they were the only tire I could find with a L load rating and a 75 mph max speed. I talked to five different truck tires shops in Houston. Perhaps they just wanted to sell the Michelins, but I couldn't find a L load range in a 315 on the internet for any other provider either. I did find a couple that were L load rating but had a 55 mph max speed rating.

[Petervs]

Next thing you guys who are buying the cheapo tires will do is buy that cheapo Prevost knock off built in China. Quite similar to a Bounder I think.

You get what you pay for in my opinion. The Chinese tires might be good, but you can not guarantee they will all be good from batch to batch and brand marking to brand marking.

I learned my lesson with Firestone back in 1978 with their "500" series car radials. They all flew apart within 1000 miles of each other.

Michelin knows how to build quality tires, there is no doubt about that I think we all agree.

The cheapo tires make sense for the back of a truck trailer, where there are 8 tires sharing the load and none are driven. I would not have them on my bus, I would put them in the same category as bicycles hanging on the back ladder, plastic shields on the front, etc...In other words, the exact opposite of bling.

[edsaylor]

My son-in-law is in the tire business in Greenville, Texas. He handles Michelin and Bridgestone/Firestone tires plus several other brands. Firestone is owned and operated by Bridgestone. He has told me that Bridgstone & Firestone are every bit as good as Michelin, if not better. It is important to get the right rated tire for the application. Back when all of Firestone's problems with Ford Explorer were making headlines, I found that the problem was that Ford had Firestone build tires to Ford's specifactions, and then Ford recommended a lower air pressure than Firestone stated. At THE SAME TIME , FIRESTONE received the Number one quality award from General Motors for at least 5 years. Firestone built GM's tires to GM specs., which were much better than Fords. I ran Bridgestones on my 96 Blue Bird till 91 when I went to Liberty. Also, switched from Michelin to Bridgestone after a left front blowout on a Michelin in 2004.

[adamdegraff]

I put two new Firestone FS400s on my front wheels.... took them off 600 miles later and put Michelin Piolots XZA1s back on. The Firestones didn't handle nearly as well and my fuel economy dropped about 1mpg. They also got very hot. (Way hotter than the Michelins.) Yes, they were properly inflated. I will never buy anything other than XZAs again, so noticeable was the difference. And believe me, at $200 per tire less, I REALLY wanted to like the firestones.

~ADAM

[truk4u]

Adam,

Please explain how steer tires can result in a 1 MPG loss in 600 miles? Just interested, never heard this before.

[Pete]

Ed, like you I run Bridgestone tires. This is my second set (on two Prevost coaches) and have had no problems with either set. I think they are comparable to Michelins, but every one has their own opinion. Isn't it great we have so many choices.

[Will Garner]

Ok Poggers, it is tire time. I am working with a local tire dealer that I have done business with since 1989 on passenger vehicles and light pick up trucks. I think it has come down to either Michelins or Firestones. The price for Michelin XZE is quoted as $602 per tire plus mount and balance. The price for Firestone FRS 560 is quoted as $406 per tire plus mount and balance.

The dealer was told we did not want tires that had been on the shelf for more than three months. The freshness date on the Michelins is March 2009. The freshness date on the Firestones is August 2009. I'm curious if that difference would sway the purchase to Firestones over Michelins? Since I would prefer Michelins, the dealer is going to go back to his representative and see if he can come up with some fresher tires.

I am currently running 12/R22.5 Toyos on all wheels. I am going to put two new steers on and have the steer Toyos moved to the tag position with the current tags being discarded. The tags have a freshness date back in 2003 so I have gotten more time than I should have and that is the reason it is time to re-tire. My drives and the Toyo steers all have freshness dates in 2005 so I'm thinking one more year and we have a big tire bill coming due.

I've read and reread the earlier posts and am just trying to get some confirmation from those running the Firestones that you remain satisfied. If something has changed your level of satisfaction then perhaps the Michelins are the way to go. I have had sets of Michelins on a 1996 Lincoln Cartier Town Car and on my 2003 2500 Dodge Ram 4x4. I've like the service and ride quality on both vehicles.

Thanks for any enlightenment that may be provided in response to my inquiry.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Will,

I believe this to be accurate. At Sevierville and Pahrump we had tire experts speak to us about their brands and tires in general. While they were competing brands, the message about age and service life was the same.

In their view a tire's life was 6 years from the date of being put into service, or up to 10 years from date of manufacture, provided there was no sidewall cracking in excess of a certain amount. Rather than letting 6 years be the life of the tire, they stated 6 years was when detailed tire inspections for sidewall cracking should begin to occur with frequency. Michelin has a chart depicting acceptable levels of sidewall cracking and what is not acceptable.

They also agreed that if a tire is run at a pressure that is 20% less than the required pressure based on its loading, it is likely damaged and should be removed from service.

Based on how similar the messages were from opposing tire experts it is my opinion the quality levels and technologies in tires are probably very similar. Keep in mind however that I'm willing to run Chinese tires, which to date are still doing very well.

[merle&louise]

Jon,

When were the Chinese tires put into service on your Liberty?

How many miles on them?

[Loc]

Why did the moderator cross the road?

[tdelorme]

Why did the moderator cross the road?

Loc, you have got to get back on your meds. Your not driving the bus anywhere this weekend I hope.

OK, why did he cross the road???

[michaeldterry]

I just recently purchased (three weeks ago) a complete set of Firestone FS400's for Evangeline based on price, recommendations from a few POG members and the recommendation of my selected tire jobber. So far, I could not be happier. The Firestones replaced a set of Michelin XZA1's with a date code of 2001. The old tires "looked" fine, but on close inspection had some fairly widespread cracking in the sidewalls. In fact, I probably dodged a bullet by getting them replaced before I suffered an inevitable catastrophic tire failure due to excessive age! The tire jobber quoted Michelins, Firestones, and Hankooks as options he could recommend, but was strong in his opinion that the Michelins did not justify the $200+ per tire difference in price over the Firestones based on the way I use my coach (miles driven per year). I appreciated his recommendation even more due to the fact that he could have made significantly more money off me had he steered me to the Michelins that I was predesposed to buy, simply based on reputation and because it is what I'm used to! His reasoning is that the tires will need to be replaced again due to age long before I wear them out (just like the set I replaced this time)!

Bottom line, I'm happy with my decision to save about $1,800 by choosing the Firestones over the Michelins so far. Time will tell if my decision was wise or just "penny wise & pound foolish"! :p

Oh yeah - while getting "new shoes" for my baby, I had them install the Doran 360 TPMS that I bought on eBay a couple of months ago!

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Tuga......3.5 years ago? Just guessing. If it is important i will give an exact date and miles.

[merle&louise]

Jon,

I was just curious; it looks like you made a good deal. Inexpensive tires and they pass the test of time.

I don't know anything about tires, but I would guess that they are all about the same. If the ply rating H, L, or whatever is the same my guess is that the tires are the same quality. Rubber is rubber and steel belts are steel belts. It's kind of like gasoline or diesel; one brand is the same as the other. I really don't think that the car knows the difference.

Comparing apples to apples I think the least expensive tire is the best deal.

I know I am going to get some flack on this, but I really believe it to be true.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I cannot make a blanket statment about tires because my experience is limited to my own experiences only and then only on my two buses.

It would be nice if some magazine would do a tire test and publish the results for our size tires, reducing the data into cost per mile or year.

[lonesome george]

I use Michelin tires on every vehicle that I care even a little bit about.
On our pick-up we get over 100k on a set and it runs loaded or pulling a trailer most of the time.
We put steer axle tires on the bus this summer and the price difference between Michelin and the other guys was about $500.00 for the pair, I'll pay it.
My experience with Michelin is, round to start, round thru time and miles, take very little weight to balance and stay in balance.
I put a set of *&^%*(% on a 7 series BMW one time and made a sows ear out of a silk purse, the tire dealer said the balance problem was from the wheels, BBS makes a pretty good wheel, after adjusting half the set with new tires we gave up and went to the Michelin store and got the thing straightened out.
Prevost put Michelin on the chassis in the first place that tells me something.
I use Michelin for performance, the same reason I purchased a Prevost.

[HarborBus]

Michael, what is the maximum speed rating on the Firestone tires? I tried to find it on Firestone's web site but wasn't successful.

[Coloradobus]

Elliott,

Try here, maybe:http://www.firestonetrucktires.com/us_eng/truck_tires/index.asp

[Will Garner]

To all that replied, thanks. I'm going with the Michelins for the steers. I'm deferring the decision on the drives for another 18 months.

[truk4u]

Will,

me tink tenseseee boyz hab waay tooo cheep tirz n shud spendd mo yen!

[michaeldterry]

Michael, what is the maximum speed rating on the Firestone tires? I tried to find it on Firestone's web site but wasn't successful.

Eliott - the Firestones that I bought are rated to 75 mph. (18 ply, Load Rating J) - the 20 ply, Load Rating L tires are only rated to 55 mph!

Here's a link to the FS400 tire specs: https://www.bfentirenet.com/product_catalogs/trucktires/app?task=TruckTiresPC&subtask=ttDetail&ctry=USA&language=en_us&modelID=254&partial=true

[jello_jeep]

I put FS400s on last year, what a difference it made in handling and ride, albeit the Michelins were worn (timed) out.

The ride fine and run fine, I don't account for mileage, as I still have to fill it up when its empty, so that is wasted processor time to me.

Save your cash for something that really matters (tools/toys/steaks/guns/jeeps)

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Will,

me tink tenseseee boyz hab waay tooo cheep tirz n shud spendd mo yen!

I try not to reward folks who take advantage of me.

No doubt Michelin makes a fine product. But unless and until someone can show me they are as much better or safer than their price would suggest, they will just continue to be one of the brands I will price when I am replacing tires.

I may be wrong, but large truck and bus fleets go by much more than price when deciding what tires to put on their vehicles. I am sure their decision is based on cost per mile, safety and performance as it relates to things like stopping distance and fuel mileage. I see far too many other brands of tires on trucks and buses to believe Michelins are so good that their price is justified.

And besides, if the Georgia rednecks are using Michelins, that suggests the choice may not be based on any rational decision making process, but more on what Bubba down at the tar center said janeedtado. (ja-need-ta-do). Its like wudja, culdja, shooda.

[michaeldterry]

And besides, if the Georgia rednecks are using Michelins, that suggests the choice may not be based on any rational decision making process, but more on what Bubba down at the tar center said janeedtado. (ja-need-ta-do). Its like wudja, culdja, shooda.

Hey Jon! I resemble that remark (the Georgia redneck part - not the using Michelins part)! I chose Firestones over Michelins - granted, price was a major factor in my decision "process". :rolleyes: I've lived all over this incredible country - I didn't have to move to Georgia to be a redneck, but it's a damned fine place to be one! :D

[Ray Davis]

Eliott - the Firestones that I bought are rated to 75 mph. (18 ply, Load Rating J) - the 20 ply, Load Rating L tires are only rated to 55 mph!

Michael, were you concerned with the loss of nearly 1600 pounds of carrying capacity on your front axle (compared to the J rated tire)? Have you weighed your coach?

Ray