Asking Price

[rockcreek]

I have watched pricing for some time now, and see , what seem to be, some realistic pricing from private parties. But when on the facorty sites, pre-owned or consigned, they seem to be ridiculously priced. I know the market is soft, but what is realistic when making an offer to factory sites? 25% off Asking Price? Thanks for the input on this. This market is different from fiberglass. No blue books to average.
Mike

[michaeldterry]

I have watched pricing for some time now, and see , what seem to be, some realistic pricing from private parties. But when on the facorty sites, pre-owned or consigned, they seem to be ridiculously priced. I know the market is soft, but what is realistic when making an offer to factory sites? 25% off Asking Price? Thanks for the input on this. This market is different from fiberglass. No blue books to average.
Mike

Mike - from my perspective, the only "realistic" offer to make is what the coach is worth to you. Maybe that's an oversimplified response, but the reduction from asking price is irrelevant if you don't perceive the final agreed purchase price to be an acceptable value. When you find a coach that you like - offer what it is worth to you and let the chips fall where they may.

Back in December '08, when I found the "one", I bid what I could afford to pay and didn't think that I had much of a shot at getting it! Two hours later - much to my surprise - I had agreed to buy a Prevost! Dreams do come true! :p

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Mike, you hit a real sore point with me. Like you I see prices on coaches that are posted on P-Stuff for example that seem realistic, but when you seek a similar year coach from some converters the prices asked are sky high.

The stated justification is that the converters do a full pre delivery inspection and bring the coach completely up to date with respect to maintenance, tires, batteries, etc. Then the converters claim to stand behind the coach for a while. With an owner you get what you can, and as soon as you are out of the driveway the warranty expires.

It all sounds reasonable except I can never seem to justify the asking prices when buying from some dealers. I think the intent is to be able to give you a ridiculous allowance for a trade in, or to give you some room for negotiations. Whatever the reason I cannot stand the dance, and if the answer to the request for a "best price" is still high, I am outa there. My attitude is the high price is intended to screw me, and I have to work to keep as much as my money as possible. That sucks because it has as a premise that buyers are going to get screwed, but until the best price is negotiated you just don't know how much you are getting screwed.

But, there is another side to the coin. I have seen a lot of coaches. I have looked at coaches being sold by private owners. I have listened to the stories about how great the maintenance was. You may get a great deal buying from an individual, or you may get hosed so bad it will justify dealing with a converter and paying what they ask to protect yourself from an expensive surprise.

I think the buyer is the key. If the buyer is willing to take the time to research the market, investigate the coach, do a complete pre-purchase inspection, review the maintenance history, and examine the build dates and condition of things like the tires, batteries, etc. there are great deals out there. There is almost nothing out there that money won't fix, so even if the coach is a dog, it can be fixed. I think it is up to the buyer to decide whether they want to risk a private sale, or if they want the comfort of a puchase backed by a converter.

[garyde]

25% off may not get you a warm response. Maybe 10% with dealers at best
Unless its a consignment, then they can go back to the owner for a discount.
Private parties will be a better choice, but your choices are limited to what's out there and you have to travel to see them. Logistics can be a hassle.
Trade in s are not good , Dealers will only offer wholesale.
Dealers have more finance companies to offer.
Inspections, warrenties, etc., well the Dealers have it , private partie don't.
What's that worth to you. Some people feel its worth a lot, others not so much.

[tdelorme]

25% off may not get you a warm response. Maybe 10% with dealers at best
Unless its a consignment, then they can go back to the owner for a discount.
Private parties will be a better choice, but your choices are limited to what's out there and you have to travel to see them. Logistics can be a hassle.
Trade in s are not good , Dealers will only offer wholesale.
Dealers have more finance companies to offer.
Inspections, warrenties, etc., well the Dealers have it , private partie don't.
What's that worth to you. Some people feel its worth a lot, others not so much.

Gary, you would think that offering a dealer 25% under the asking price would get you booted off the lot. Not the case these days. Pick up the phone and offer Marathon 75% of the list price of any of their used coaches and you will be the new owner. I'm saying 75% of, not 75% off. I'm sure they have a reason for the pie in the sky list price, but I believe it scares more buyers off than anything else. Flip side of the coin is Paul Davis at Mr. Olivers. He prices his units to sell and still leaves some room for the buyer to talk him down a little bit. I will grant you that buying from Marathon or Liberty offers a degree of safety for a new buyer, but more realistic pricing would make the pill easier to swallow.

[Terry J. Sturgis]

I am in the middle of our Prevo shopping experience. It seems to me that when a dealer prices a unit they add extra to cover the posibility of a trade in. For Example I found an early 90's CC advertised for $115,000, first question "do you have a trade?" I did not, $90,000. so the boss and I looked it over very carefully. She did not feel comfortable in it and I was impressed with the bus being in good mechanical shape, still no sale to my wife. Next offer was $70,000. As I have read on this site no matter what the price my wife and I need to agree on this major investment. I have been married 41 years and am shooting for a lifetime of happiness.
Looking for a Prevost bus is the only type of SHOPPING I enjoy.

[merle&louise]

Mike (rockcreek),

I don't look at the asking price.

I use the comparative sales approach. I assume that the useful life of a bus is 25 years; that means that 4% depreciation occurs each year. Next, I talk to owners and ask how much they paid for their buses and what year did they purchase them. Believe it or not, most people will tell you what they paid! Now I have a few purchase prices and purchase dates, and I can start doing some figuring.

If a buyer paid $300,000 4 years ago for a 1995 model then I subtract 16% and I have a fair market value for that bus in today's market. You can do this for all of the converters and see if patterns emerge. Of course after this homework is done you need to visually inspect the bus for condition and make sure it has a clear title.

If you do this for a period of months, you will develop a good working knowledge of bus values in today's market. And when you do make an offer it will be based on actual sales, not on just a number that someone has set as an "asking price".

Good luck!

[rockcreek]

Thanks for all the feedback. I agree that Marathon is higher than anyone out there, and the 25% would be a starting point. But I see the Liberty dealer prices a bit tighter. I would like to buy from a dealer just because they do seem to "spiff" things and stand behind their coaches for a short period of time. But there are a couple of private Liberty deals out there that I am not sure the dealer is going to match. so, guess I'll just take my chances, and offer what I want to when the time comes. Thanks again.
Mike

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Mike,

If you do a private purchase there are several things you should do to protect yourself before a penny changes hands.

Run the codes on the engine and transmission. Have the Detroit / Allison folks go over the results with you so you understand the history and condition of the engine and transmission.

Review the maintenance and service history, and do this with Prevost if that is where it was done. If there is no history records available consider it was not done and that you have a lot of work to do to "zero" out all the maintenance.

Spend a couple of days in the coach operating every system and device. You are not only using this as an opportunity to learn the coach, you are verifying every switch, dial and knob functions properly and all the devices work.

Don't be intimidated into avoiding these steps. It is a lot of work, it is time consuming, but in the end you will not only know the coach, you will get a real sense of whether the owner has accurately represented the coach.

If you buy from a converter they do this for you, and typically allow you to remain on site to learn the coach and make sure everything is OK.

[Danss]

I have owned a Marathon and a orphan bus. Eliminate the different kinds of air condition options(3) and you have a bus only being mainly different in furnishings and decorations and quality of same.
A Prevost is a Prevost, tires, batteries, water pumps, valtrex water and sewer dump valves, several different inverters(doing the same thing), TV, radio, refrigerators, Micro, Convection Oven (which very few use) Aqua hot, headhunter toilets and pumps, lights, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, all mostly off the shelf items whether it be a Marathon, Liberty, Vantare, Thompson, Vision, Legendery, Royal, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.
Buy what appeals to you, because they all can be serviced by any number of converters and with the help of many knowlegable people on this site such as Jon, Joe,Tom etc, etc, etc, etc.
No matter what you get be prepared to STAND on your WALLET as the requirements for service and maintenance is HIGH.
__________________
Danss 1999 Vogue, 03 Chev. Trailblazer

[pognumber15]

usually I would pass on commenting here - but about a year ago we traded our pride and joy 1994 Liberty straight across to a dealer for a new Pleasureway Van - 26 footer on a mercedes sprinter chassis. Nice ride, new, warranty, and it got twenty miles to the gallon. The problem here is that in my mind both units were about equal value - though I had far more in the Prevost. Both give you a place to eat, sleep, and travel down the highway - but there is a tremendous difference in the experience - the Prevost will take you anywhere a bus that size can go - with all - I repeat - all the comforts of home. The one we bought was purchased as is/where is in about 2006 - it replaced a 1999 Beaver Marquis 40' non-slide coach. This particular Liberty was taken to the Detroit Diesel/Allison shop in Redmond, Oregon where I paid for a prepurchase inspection then based on the result of this inspection which included full electronic analysis and records - I paid for a full service on the engine, transmission, and chassis. The total cost was about $2,000 and I was very pleased as I had a coach I could safely drive anyplace. It needed six new tires (two front tires were new) and a set of chassis batteries and the coach batteries. It needed about three hundred hours of time to replace light bulbs, put in a new water system which had been frozen up in Maryland sitting outside in winter at a shop that was supposed to be fixing it, replace almost every one of the mini-lights in the instruments and controls up front - and run down numerous lousy repairs done by supposedly reputable shops around the country. A new HeadHunter pump, filter system, and several fittings in the water compartment got water going. The Webasto heat system was not operable, opened the valves on both the intake and outlet side, took a look at the control system, and determined something definitely was wrong - but before starting a big tear down - checked the small mini-breaker up on the control box - and it was popped - five minutes after opening the valves, resetting the breaker, and turning it on - we had an operating Webasto system which actually was in good shape and did not even need a new nozzle or filter. By this time I had realized I made the buy of a lifetime on this coach - less than 20,000 miles on a new engine rebuilt by Detroit Diesel and an Allison 5 speed which was perfect. Odometer said about 38,000 miles but it had been replaced around 60,000 when the original died. No idea where the 38,000 came from but service records obtained from CarFax put the coach at about 80,000. Brand new for a bus like this. Actual out of pocket expense for parts and repairs was about $ 1,000 dollars - and that three hundred hours of labor which I did myself. That time would have run at least $ 30,000 in most shops - The tires and batteries were about $ 4,000 to $ 6,000 dollars but that is not repairs - that is just normal upkeep which had been deferred. We drove this bus many happy miles with no problems at all. Prevost provided me with original electrical and air schematics for this actual bus. It cost a phone call.

All in all -my as is/where is bus cost me $ 150,000 which was a bargain - and about $ 10,000 dollars out of pocket to make it usable. When we got it the waste tanks were full, the water tanks empty - but it came with full propane and the propane system fully checked - for those of you not very familiar with a Liberty all-electric coach - I had the opportunity - and could not resist asking to see the propane tanks that were just filled. It was hilarious as compartment after compartment was opened only to find no tank.

This is way too long - but about half of the so-called experts out there cause more problems than they fix. If you have the skills, and the patience, there are many good coaches out there - but they may need a lot of things fixed - these are coaches that are fairly complex but very straight-forward mechanically and electrically if you can get it back to factory configuration.

My advise would be - if you live in my part of the country or near this part of the country - buy a Marathon - we live in Oregon near Eugene - and they will work on a Liberty these days - but they are Marathon experts - if you live near Chicago Liberty is probably the best coach to buy. If you want assurance of a good deal, and in my mind a good deal is one you can drive and use - the factory stores are excellent and you get what you pay for. They usually provide new coach experience for a used coach price. They are not cheap - but my coach would have been a complete disaster for someone who has not done a lot of coach work in the past and did not care how many hours it took to make it right - I enjoyed the project - and am back looking for the next one - just don't tell my wife that yet.

We sold the Sprinter Van and bought a really nice 2007 Corvette Roadster so these days we motel it in luxury - but we still miss that old bus at times.

Chuck W.
POG 15

[0533]

Lets have some fun and evaluate a single coach for sale and determine what it is worth, if it is even a good value at any price, what will be required during inspection, what the achilles heels are with this model year both Marathon and Prevost. How much will be needed for upgrades to get the bus up to a nearly new standard?

Here is the bus choice: Just picked a Marathon out of the barrel for fun.

http://www.marathoncoach.com/preowned/inventory_detail.cfm?id=627&coach=0625

I have chosen a 2000 Marathon H double slide bus with 115,000 miles, nice floor plan, neutral colors, looks nice on the web. The bus appears to be a Marathon trade, says "Make Offers" The shell is a 1999, so we need to check the Vin# and check Prevost Car for recalls, bulletins etc make sure all have been done. Get all of this detail before you take the time to see the bus. What Else??

Do a Carfax report on the bus, it is cheap and can tell you some details you might need to know, how many owners, actual milage etc. service dates etc

Ask the salesman to have the milage read from the DD system, and report back to compare what is advertised. ask about accident history. Marathon is very tight vested about accident history, guess they all are, make the deal subject to inspection of all work order history, no redactions.

So lets go: Value: My guess is that Marathon will take somewhere in the neighborhood of $250K maybe even $225 for the bus, maybe even less, cash no trade. Comments. It is a new year, cash is still king this bus is land fill right now, PS> this goes for most deals cash is king, my opinion is that some of the best deals will come from converters who have trade inventory on the lot. If they can free the paper from their bank it will be gone.

2000 Marathon issues: Slides, If they are Rouge slides with HWH equipment they need to be carefully checked by someone who actually understands slide rooms not just someone who works at the factory. These slides are called drop rooms because the floor actually drops down and ends up under the floor, a bit tricky, but when they work and are out the bus feels twice as large, the bedroom is really spacious, great value as long as all works. 1999 H's have some other issues, bumpers three piece, droop, trim on outside around slide rooms gets jammed up and can split looks bad. What else??

Of course there is the basic stuff, making sure you get underneath in a pit to carefully check for damage, bottoming out, if so how was it repaired?? Leaks front end, bags, shocks all of it. Get on the roof, borrow a ladder, you go up and check for damage, check all equipment, possible leaks, tree damage repair, also check all windows for damage, seals etc.

One of the hardest things is to be able to ask the sales rep to allow you and your wife to spend the afternoon in the bus with all power on, testing everything that is in the bus all systems, it is a must. Really crawl around the bus, every corner looking for leaks, damage, all of it. comments & additions?

Test drive: must, do it after you have a deal and feel good about the systems but before you have spent one dime. There is much that will be learned from the test drive: Comments & additions??

The Deal:

If Marathon accepts the offer make them service the bus, full Prevost level III service. Ask that they do all of the recalls and bulletins as well if they have not been addressed. If they offer to do a PDI make them repair all items. My guess is if they do a PDI it will be light on problems, you will need to check the listed items add the rest of the stuff, like veneer can be pricy if damaged make them repair it, headliners that are water damaged can be pricy as well. Fight for a 6 to 12 month warrantee as well, this will get sticky but fight for it. This is only the start, so be careful Comments & additions:

This should get you started, real world deal on am existing coach for sale

If we all add something it will be much easier for you to make the best choice and the best deal with your eyes wide open.

No matter how well of a deal you strike, especially if you get a lower number you will need to set aside some real $$ for upgrades, on a bus like a 2000 H at least $25K is my guess over the first 12 months.

[Alek&Lucia]

.... 1999 H's have some other issues, bumpers three piece, droop, trim on outside around slide rooms gets jammed up and can split looks bad. What else??...

Bruce,

We have 2000 H3-45 Royale, and none of the above is correct.
Where , and when did you seen 3 piece bumper on the H ?

You talking strictly about 2000 Marathon with Rouge slides, correct ?

Alek

[Loc]

Bruce,

Isn't that Jeff Gordon's old bus? It has been on the Marathon website for at least two years. I thought is was interesting that it had a treadmill in the back closet.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Everybody has an opinion on prices, but I see very few ever reflect upon the value of a coach to them.

It appears the name of the game is to beat the price down to the lowest possible level, perhaps for bragging rights, or perhaps because it is viewed as a challenge.

That is probably important if a coach is bought to be flipped, or if it is a dog that needs a lot of work. I feel strongly however that if a coach is being bought to be kept for a while a purchase is a balancing act that is part fair price, part a coach meeting your needs, and part based on the coach condition. Failing to give equal importance to either the price, coach condition, or how you like it is probably going to end up with a less than satisfactory purchase experience.

We are far from experts at buying coaches because we've only bought two and that was 14 years apart. But in both cases we have been extremely satisfied, the first solely because of dumb luck, the second because we had the experience and knew exactly what we wanted, the market prices, and the coach condition. Since we will not be trading anytime soon, if ever, the price we paid which we thought at the time was fair is now completely unimportant. The floor plan, systems, and features have risen to the top of the list now as being the most important thing about our purchase because we are very happy with them. As you live in and use a coach if there are things you don't like they grate on you. Finally, the condition of the coach has also assumed some importance. It was well maintained and that prior maintenance, combined with my maintenance has allowed us to have a lot of trouble free use of the coach. We are glad each trip does not end with a list of repairs that need to be made.

Every one of us has different criteria for a coach purchase. Some need certain features, some are looking for absolutely perfect condition, and others need to know they "stole" the coach. I think it is a balancing act to get the right coach and I feel strongly that none of us should buy a coach without experiencing that "eureka" moment when we step onto the coach for the first time and just know that it's the coach we want.

None of this is meant to say we shouldn't approach a purchase in a less than orderly manner, including a full inspection so there are no surprises after the money changes hands.

[0533]

Sorry Alek, was only referring to Marathon conversions in this case because this seemed to be the direction Mike (original post) was heading.

The attempt is to expose some of the under belly of the purchase to allow the buyer to become better informed, in an effort to save some money, find out what is required to make a good purchase better, frankly learn from our mistakes.

All conversions have issues.

One biggy with Marathon is what I call the first series of tech link relays that allow the tech link to monitor and relay (route) signals through out the bus.
Marathon does not support these relays any longer as they have moved on to another generation of tech link relays for newer conversions. So if you own an older Marathon conversion you better take extra care of the tech link system and all of the hundreds of relays that run through the bus. If you short one out, water damage, they will be very difficult to replace.

[0533]

Hello Jon,

I think that most people want the very best at a price that reflects the market, but I also feel that most of us want to at least feel we are better than others at negotiating price and value, it is natural I think? anyway it is at least important to get a baseline on what the market is paying or what one should offer when making a purchase knowing full well that the purchase is the starting point not the end. The new owner will need to spend some real money to get to the place most of us want to be with the new bus.

I was trying to say that most dealers will never share the actual problems with any used bus (in fact will stay mum on the subject during the buying experience) it is completely on the shoulders of the buyer or if the buyer is lucky enough to have a friend who owns a bus to help in the buying process to evaluate each prospect and make an informed decision.

If you find a really good example of the bus you are looking for, sometimes it makes sense to pay a premium, but it is still important to add up all factors, Price, previous ownership, maintenance, damage history, needed repairs, all of it to be able to make an informed decision. These factors will allow the buyer to settle on a price ceiling for the desired purchase.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

An experienced Prevost owner can negotiate the minefield relating to coach condition and future service issues. They have been through it, they know what things cost, they know what is critical.

A buyer looking for their first Prevost starts out in trouble unless they do their homework, and a lot of homework is required.

They still have to do the balancing act. I disagree with your analysis that every coach purchase requires the buyer to set aside serious money for upgrades or repairs. On the dealer side if they buy from a reputable seller, like Liberty (just to use them as an example) that coach is going to get a complete going over and the buyer just needs to adhere to the maintenance schedule. On a private sale we know there are a lot of POG members who take extremely good care of their coaches, and have the records to prove it. A buyer can purchase a coach from a seller such as that and just continue to maintain the coach according to schedule. Anyone buying my coach has the benefit of records that document everything done since I bought it for example, and just by looking at the logs can see what it may or may not need.

But once a buyer steps beyond a puchase that includes a comprehensive PDI or detailed maintenance history, then the buyer needs to establish a budget to zero out all the maintenance tasks.

Upgrades or modifications such as new carpeting or electronics are beyond the scope of a purchase, except to say it is cheaper to let someone spend serious dollars making upgrades, and then buy their bus for pennies on the dollar.

With the exception of an engine or transmission any buyer can bring the entire chassis up to date, including tires, batteries, all fluids, filters, air bags, brake chambers, Norgren valves, etc. for $20,000. That is based on paying someone to do it. Do it yourself and the cost is little more than half that.

[0533]

I suggested $25K is the base amount to at least mentally set aside for after purchase upgrades. We are only $5K apart here, maybe the difference in doing it yourself I guess.

The standard for upgrades is also in the eyes of the beholder. Is it what others see or what makes your bus run better, run safer, best to consider all three.

[Coloradobus]

You are correct, coach 625 is one of Jeff Gordon's previous coaches, and so is coach 777
http://www.marathoncoach.com/preowned/inventory_detail.cfm?id=647&coach=0777

Every 4 windshield equipped H3-45 we have seen unless retro-fitted with the new face has a 3 piece front bumper where the center tips down for cruiseair access or a spare tire, is so equipped. It's a Prevost thing, not a converter installed thing. Yes the bumper corners are prone to droop.

Here's another a 2000 Royale H and a 1995 Vantare H with 3 piece bumpers the fog lights are each installed in the outer bumper pieces and the center bumper piece is the third tha can fold down.
http://www.philcooper.com/gallery/b0d-00/mop_000006
http://www.rjsluxurycoachsales.com/coaches_details-coachid-MjU4.html

[0533]

The selection of Marathon 625 was just that a random selection for example only. Take any example and make the same comparison:

http://www.libertycoach.com/collection/newused/usedcoaches/2001LibertyLadyClassicH3-45683-C.asp

There are few details on this 2001 H Liberty in Stuart Fl, but the same approach will allow you to evaluate this coach. It does look like a nice one at least at a glance.

I would still venture that Liberty Fl wants this coach to disappear if at all possible. a Non slide coach should be a good bargain, and offer less maintenance as well.

[Alek&Lucia]

Bruce,

I have to post a correction to my post. You were 100% correct about the 3 piece front bumper. Somehow I was thinking about the rear bumper. :o
The front has 3 sections, because the middle part is a storage compartment for a spare tire. It is so normal, that I never looked at this as a 3 piece bumper or a design problem.

Jim,

Thank You for opening my eyes on this subject, :o

Alek

[0533]

There is a first for everything. Being a 100% correct will now become my goal for 2010. May be difficult, like loosing weight.

PS> Marathon H's of this era also had problems with the slides pinching the upper trim, in some cases pinching it off completely.

I still feel this will become a huge consideration in the older Marathon buying process as years go by, as I doubt Marathon will invest any $ in keeping extra parts inventory for old outdated tech link equipment which makes up a big part of the ownership experience.

Big support issue with Marathon is what I call the first series of tech link relays that allow the tech link to monitor and relay (route) signals through out the bus.
Marathon does not support these relays any longer as they have moved on to another generation of tech link relays for newer conversions. So if you own an older Marathon conversion you better take extra care of the tech link system and all of the hundreds of relays that run through the bus. If you short one out, water damage, they will be very difficult to replace.
__________________

Happy New Year.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Bruce, in your effort to be 100% correct this year do you know for a fact Marathon is essentially telling customers it will not support their older coaches? The one constant in all the years we have owned a Prevost has been customer support from converters. As long as a converter was viable with some rare exceptions they have done whatever it has taken to keep the coaches they produced serviced. Marathon and Liberty especially have put customer support at the very top of the list when it comes to reasons why someone should by a coach from them.

Having said that, no converter is immune to having a supplier or vendor discontinue a product or component used in their conversions. That is a far cry from the converter (Marathon in this case) not supporting "tech link relays", which might have been a specialized component no longer available. In that case the normal pracitce has been to supply an interchangeable part, rather than an exact drop in replacement.

[0533]

In April of 2009 I had service at Marathon Fl. before heading out on the road for the summer. One complaint on my to do list was no control of my step at drivers dash main console. After checking carefully (pulling the dash panel cover off and digging way in the back, actually forward toward the windshield for Relay #9 box we found that it had been damaged by a leaky windshield that had been repaired but unfortunately had gotten the relay wet. 2 of the five ports on the relay were bad, shorted out.

I was told by Marathon that they do not manufacture these relays (actual Gold colored boxes about 3"x5"x2" any longer. We ended up moving the relay (phone jack ribbon cable) jack to another relay with an extra unused port and Marathon used their computer (old program version 1 for techlink) to reprogram the port to reflect the step move to another relay for future service needs.

Jamie (Marathon super Tech) said that they have had some success piggy backing new relays on top of the old ones, so "Yes" technically they do have a fix, no simple project and in my opinion a big issue that is brewing under the surface for all older first generation Techlink driven buses. PS> he was not suggesting a piggy back fix, it is mixing apples and oranges old programing with new.

Marathon did a great job making this all happen. PS> Jamie at Marathon Fl. is in my opinion the only true Marathon (East Coast) tech who knows how to use the old Marathon techlink program to trouble shoot problems and manage repairs. It will become a big issue if and when these guys with the knowledge are no longer around as the Marathon tech link software is proprietary to Marathon, very close to the vest stuff. They should keep a back up copy in a safe.

The bottom line is that the tech link system plays a huge role in the operation of all Marathon bus conversions, they are all over the bus. The software version is really first generation old stuff, Marathon has moved on, and especially now that there is a slow down in the industry, I do not see that they will knock themselves over to keep these systems current.

Frankly older buses do not play a big role in the overall business at Marathon.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

That's a harsh indictment. My Marathon knowledge is zero, but I cannot think of a quicker way to screw up future business than to turn one's back on older product.

[0533]

It is not meant to be an indictment, Marathon on average does a great deal to offer service on older coaches, it is rather a fact associated with older vehicles, bus conversions in general, Marathon simply is not able to offer support for everything.

Now having said this, and if I still owned a Marathon I would ask if they have plans to offer a software Tech Link upgrade or some type of cross over patch that allows the new tech link software to work with older Relays or something.

An older marathon conversion is like an early shuttle, it has lots of really good stuff that worked. I bet they will find a way to upgrade this as it is a fundamental aspect of these buses.

[Kevin Erion]

I have found that Marathon will work with you on any issue relating to there product. I had a 99 and now an 01, both I think run on the "old" tech link. I could be wrong about that, in the 5 years I had 1 FET box have a problem and they took care of the problem, free of charge! Some of us will never have a new bus and thats OK, I like working on keeping mine better than new.

[GDeen]

The bottom line is that the tech link system plays a huge role in the operation of all Marathon bus conversions, they are all over the bus. The software version is really first generation old stuff, Marathon has moved on, and especially now that there is a slow down in the industry, I do not see that they will knock themselves over to keep these systems current.

Frankly older buses do not play a big role in the overall business at Marathon.

I don't buy that for a minute Bruce. I called Leon a couple of Mondays ago with some questions about a couple of the systems. He went out of his way to pull my build sheet, go over the exact way things were installed with me, had one of his guys contact the trucking company who installed my Vorad, etc, etc. He also offered to help with upgrading my B/G tank sensors to the current spec regarding what would be needed, how to do it, etc. Sure didn't strike me as behavior consistent with "moving on and not supporting the older buses."

[Coloradobus]

We have had 2 Marathons, an XLII and an H. Both had the same Techlon systems. Asside from the ususal powering down of the coaches once or twice a year we never had issue. Except one, due to a nearby lightning strike of pwer pole several years ago at Barrett Jackson, the XLII had a couple of Discreet boxes fail. Put in call to Leon and he got us a couple, and they were plug and play. (Luckily they were ina closet with a false floor.
Marathon keeps them in stock, altho anyone can get them thru Techlon in Pennsylvania.
http://www.techlon.com/invent_index.php?ac=show_cat&catid=1
More recent, Nov 2009, we stopped in at Marathon Beaumont with an A/C issue in the Beaver bus, Roger (svc mgr) had the problem diagnosed in 30 minutes, and presto we were on the road again.

[truk4u]

Bruce,

You changed from a Marathon to plastic because of Tech Link?:rolleyes:

[0533]

The point about the techlink was made to remind new buyers and those who own existing Marathon coaches that it is important to stay on your toes and follow all changes and upgrades to insure that your bus gets all that is necessary to stay as new as Kevin's is, Kevin in fact keeps enough Prevost and Marathon parts in his tow vehicle to change any part on his bus.

I still feel the techlink issue illustrates my point about the purchase process. It is important to have your eyes wide open during the purchase process.

Another valuable part of the process is when possible to be able to speak with the previous owner if you are buying through a dealer. This is not allows possible, especially at Marathon as they protect the names of their customers and generally do not release this info. It can be very valuable in so much as you can better understand where the potential issues are, what has been upgraded, what should be upgraded, and frankly just how sharp the owner was about service in general and ownership for that matter.

I wish I had had this benefit when I purchased my Marathon, instead of going it alone.

All in all I would purchase another Marathon, older coaches would not stop me, but I think I would do more pre sale research the next time to make sure I new as much about the coach as possible.

[0533]

Bruce,

You changed from a Marathon to plastic because of Tech Link?:rolleyes:
Techlink had nothing to do with it. I loved my bus, just took too much care and feeding and frankly I found that my Rving experience was taking us to locations that were not suitable for the bus, blue roads, State and national parks, locations with difficult entry and exits, steep tree laden low cover areas. We like to KayaK, Mountain Bike etc. have found that we can get into back country now without feeling like we will not get out again or that we might damage our bus. We owe nothing to our truck and expect that it will get us in and out, no questions.

Wish I could justify 2 coaches, one for the above and one for the best ride on the road, I cannot. I was getting to the point where I was treating the bus more like a show car that I did not want to use as a daily driver, a bit obsesses I am afraid.

My guess is we will be back, I have an attention span of about 30 seconds, we are getting back into boating for now, like to long distance cruise.

Finally we loved our bus, have no issues with an older well maintained coach, just offering suggestions to those who are in the buying process is all.

[Coloradobus]

We understand what your saying Bruce. WE felt our H was not as National Park friendly as we would have liked . Our travelling habits have changed some, and a smaller coach was in the offering
We had been 40 foot coach shopping for over a year. We found the Beaver Bus, Jon and Di did the first review, and the rest is hisory..
It is so much fun being able to have space ahead and behind the bus in the garage. Our space is 48 feet long, and 12 ft wide, and I had forgotten with the XL we could open the baydoors with the coach iinside. Its been 9 years since our Country Coach XL 2 slide, so gaining bay access was a great surprise.
Also, we don't have to collapse the suspension a bit to get the coach inside. The H"3-45 we had to suppress it completely.
In a while, when our travelling mode changes again, and we have more time, we will move back to an H", maybe even with a slide, or 2 or 3?:D Time will tell. Until then, we plan on having a blast with the 40 footer, it's a little rocket!. You know, no natter what the year it is, a Prevost is a Prevost.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Bruce, you are greatly exagerating the significance of older coaches and ongoing service. A prospective buyer may now shy away from a perfectly fine older coach, and Marathon in particular if they take your comments to heart.

You are not typical of Prevost owners. You spent serious money having others do work on your coach, a lot of which was not essential, and some of which was of questionable value relative to its cost.

The issue relating to maintaining an older coach will always be there, but now that I have owned older coaches for 20 years I can say with certainty I may have to look for parts to replace original parts or devices no longer produced, but I have not yet been stymied. Our coaches are in fact easy to maintain.

I hope my comments balance yours because I believe you have created a distorted view of ownership.

[0533]

Jon,

I do not understand why you find it necessary to try and distort my words into something that evil.

I have the utmost respect for Marathon's and older Prevost's, would own another one in a heart beat as long as it was well maintained special bus. I consider a well maintained Prevost a piece of art, have stated this many times in other posts.

The point is to have one's eyes wide open to become an informed buyer, not walk into potential issues without fully understanding what is involved in the ownership and management process, this post was for new buyers who should be fully informed.

As for my spending habits and service work on my coach. If you had ever wondered into 533 you might have had a better understanding of what was done, you did not and in fact have no real personal knowledge whatsoever.

0533 was special and as such I felt a responsibility to care for it in the manner befitting a quality coach. The new owner felt the same, paid a premium and appears to be a satisfied owner, who in fact has owned five Prevost's over the years.

I do understand Prevost's, may not service my own, do not even own one for the moment, at least I have complete respect for them and for others who own them and would never try to denigrate another member online.