Surge Protectors

[Sid Tuls]

Having had a little electrical problem due to a storm I was wondering how many of you use portable 50 amp surge protectors? The one I was looking at is made by Progressive Industries priced @ $363.00. Would like your opinions. Thanks

[tdelorme]

Sid I think a lot of folks here have the Progressive unit. I bought mine after a run-in with reversed polarity killed my microwave and one of the chargers. The first unit they sent worked for about two weeks. crashed, and was replaced at no charge with the unit I now have. I think JDUB has been through three or four Progressive units, but there is no telling what he does with them so that's expected. Bottom line, darn sure better than nothing but they will crash on you now and then.

[nrhareiner]

Good morning,

I have used that exact surge protector. It has saved us problems multiple times.

It actually committed suicide once when a 65,000 volt line touched the 12,000 volt line feeding the 50 amp plugs at a fair ground. Our bus had no problems, but our friends without this item had over $20,000 dollars worth of damage.

Personally I do not plug into an outlet without this item.

[Kevin Erion]

I have used the same one for a few years now with no problems, nice piece of mind.

[michaeldterry]

Having had a little electrical problem due to a storm I was wondering how many of you use portable 50 amp surge protectors? The one I was looking at is made by Progressive Industries priced @ $363.00. Would like your opinions. Thanks

Would someone post a link to the source website for this unit? Thanks!

[HarborBus]

Here is the link to what they are talking about. http://www.tweetys.com/electricalmanagementsystemportable50amp.aspx. I am just wondering why most everyone is using the portable unit. Why not hard wire it in and get it out of the rain and elements?

[michaeldterry]

Thanks Elliott!

[phorner]

I also have a Progressive Industries PC-50.

Unfortunately, it took them 4 tries to get me one that worked properly. This was a big disappointment as I had a permanent one installed in our prior coach which always worked flawlessly.

The one I have now appears to be OK. When working right, they are a great device.

[MangoMike]

Some info over at Prevoman.com

http://www.prevoman.com/Pages/Cool%20Toos/surge/Surgepg1.html

5263

Mike

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

I also use one with no problems.

Elliott, hard wired into the bus is nice when all is well.

Portable is nice when you have trouble and have to send it back to the factory for repair/replacement.

JIM

[michaeldterry]

Some info over at Prevoman.com

http://www.prevoman.com/Pages/Cool%20Toos/surge/Surgepg1.html

5263

Mike

Okay - I'm sold! I'll have to save my pennies as quick as I can to buy this, a TPMS, and pay the $1,000 insurance deductable for my recent "idiot incident" with the high curb! Owning a Prevost ain't for the faint of heart (or handicripples on fixed incomes)! :p But, being that I'm brain damaged, I have an excuse to ignore the fixed income limitations and plead ignorance! :D "Membership (in the brain damaged club) has its privileges!" :D

[Ray Davis]

After the recent power incident at our new storage site (other thread), the manager moved me to a different unit which he indicated had 50A power. It turned out to actually be a 30A plug, but that was OK. I plugged the PT-50C into it (via an adapter), only to find they had reverse wired the 30A plug!

It's a great unit. I personally haven't had any issues, but as mentioned above there are a few that have had problems, but I think in all cases the company made good with a new unit.

Ray

[Sid Tuls]

Thanks, for all the responses I'm going to order one Monday.

[dale farley]

Sid,

I've also used the portable unit on my last two Prevosts and never had a problem.

[Jeff Bayley]

I didn't start this out to be a brain teaser but it would be a good puzzle for a RV technician contest. I had chimed in with an inverter, electrical issue and rekindled an older thread about a week and a half ago but I'm still trouble shooting it and I think it could be surge related so I'm posting it here now also. Would rather try to squeeze it in here instead of staring a new thread. This thread seems to be coasting to it’s close after Sid said he made his decision so I hope he doesn't mind if I creep in here. I apologize in advance for the lengthy description of my electrical problem as it relates to the surge protector. Hopefully this can also serve as a good lesson on what not to do.

I have an on board, in line and installed by Royal circa 1997; a Leviton surge protector but it took a hit and blew it's top several months ago when an electrician handy man friend mis-wired his home 50 amp plug (for use on his welder) to be able to let me plug my coach in when parked in front of his place. He was not an RV or Bus owner and as such, mis-wired the home made adapter despite being mostly competent. When we didn't get power right away, we unplugged it and put the in line Progressive unit in to find out that we (umm, he) had made an error and then he re-wired correctly. Next time I'll think to use the Progressive unit before instead of after the fact. Duh. Guess I had to learn the hard way. Instead of having a chance to blow the Progressive unit, it took out the Leviton unit. Odd that the Leviton unit continued to allow power through despite being blown. Should the on board Leviton surge protector allow unfiltered power through after being blown ? It seems more sensible it would not allow any power through (as the external Progressive unit would do I believe). Perhaps RV surge protectors are not consistent as regards whether they do or do not continue to let power though. In the case of an on-board unit like the Leviton, perhaps they realize that it's better to allow unprotected power to continue to flow so as not to depilate your shore power all together and it's up to the coach owner to periodically check that the LED protection lights are illuminating on the unit from time to time. The two green lights on the Leviton (1 to indicate when working on shore power, 1 to indicate it's working on generator)......neither one of the lights came on yet I continued getting power. What I was negligent in doing was to continue using the Progressive unit once I got home & until such time I could replace the on board Leviton unit.

I found a post prior that stated “The red light blinks and makes an audible alarm (currently) and the information on the front cover clearly states that if it's doing that the component is bad and needs to be replaced.” (end quote) In this instance, I’m fairly certain that I don’t have an audible alarm going off. Further, I found a post that stated “Remove the faulty Leviton component, DO NOT replace it. Use a surge guard, the type that plugs into the external 50 amp plug, and your shore cord plugs into it. This will do the same job as your original piece, for less money, and it is not hard wired like the original. The piece mounted above your transfer switch was an add-on upgrade by the original manufacturer of the transfer switch, and they have a high failure rate.” (end quote).


On the Trace 2,500 watt inverters (the inverters/chargers themselves, not the remotes), there is a small, removable panel on the front upper right hand side. Behind that panel is a small factory installed jumper with an LED light next to it. It is labeled "Utility line TC test. Remove to disconnect A/C1 In relay. LED simulates relay operation". If there is an A/C1 relay somewhere I don't know where it located. Could it be referring to the I checked this light a week ago and it was in fact illuminated. Now it's not. The symptoms of what is not working did not change however the AC1 In Good light on the inverter remote panel is not lighting up concurrent with the LED light on the inverter itself referenced above, also not lighting up.

I thought because one half of my coach was not working, it had something to do with a bad connection related to the new house batteries I installed and that I had replaced within about a week of noticing the problem (emphasis on NOTICING the problem) but I now believe that it may have been a coincidence. I can't recall if I disconnected shore power prior to changing the batteries. If I failed to do so, could this have been a possible culprit to making a "surge" and making the inverter take a hit? Suppose the answer is "maybe".

For those of you that have time to help or add any advise, here is the link to my other posting on a related thread rather than recount it all here. Also some additional discussion on the Progressive unit can be found here.

http://forum.prevostownersgroup.com/showthread.php?t=3695&page=2



Questions if readers can help answer any or all.

1: Should the on board Leviton surge protector allow "dirty" power through after being blown ? Is this a question for a distributor or the manufacture or do any of you know the answer ?


2: If the shore power side of the Leviton unit was blown (ie, LED light for shore power not illuminating) would the generator side of the same Leviton also cease to work (ie, LED should / would not illuminate ?) The LED's for both generator side of the Leviton and the shore power of the Leviton are, neither one, illuminating even though I only had a surge on the shore power.

3: What is the significance of the LED, next to the removable jumper, not illuminating behind the small access panel of the inverter? The meters (separate needle from the remote) is indicating I do in fact have shore power.

4: I do not know at what point the meter which is inside the coach and confirms power is coming in, picks up the voltage. All things considered, I think it might be picking up the power somewhere in line between the automatic transfer switch and the inverters/chargers. Can anyone confirm?

5: I can't recall if I disconnected shore power prior to changing the batteries. If I failed to do so, could this have been a possible culprit to making a "surge" and making the inverter take a hit? Suppose the answer is "maybe". ??

[garyde]

Hi Jeff. Your leviton surge protector should be replaced prior to proceeding with anything else. It may be 'leaking' voltage thru but no appreciable curent is flowing, fooling you into believeing you have shore power. If your Generator is connected thru the same surge unit , it too will not work.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

With all due respect to Jeff, I think it is a slippery slope trying to diagnose an electrical problem with so many unknowns. In fact as I read Jeff's post it gets downright scary.

I cannot speak for others, especially for professional mechanics and electricians, but when I am presented with an electrical issue I have to get out my meter and follow the circuit from the beginning to the end. Jeff's description bounces all over the place. What Jeff needs to do is start at the power cord and look for continuity every step of the way. Terms like "blew its top" aren't exactly precise terms and their meaning could be interpreted in any number of ways. To me that means it was blown apart and there is a blackened vestige of what was once a Leviton unit now in his bus.

Here's my advice to Jeff.......take the coach to a knowledgable service center such as Parliament or any of the others familiar with Royale coaches. Let them go through it completely. I have seen some of what it looks like in Jeff's coach and with his radical ideas on adding a gas generator and some other things he has contemplated at this point nobody can diagnose this problem. My concern is Jeff may end up burning up his coach if he continues to use a scattergun approach to problem solving.

Sorry Jeff. You are playing in a very dangerous area and if a professional electrician can miswire a 50 amp plug and blow up your Leviton, imagine what you can do to your coach. He only had to hook up four wires to a receptacle that was clearly marked.

[mike kerley]

We use the portable unit, also have one infront of the meter installed by the utility company and have all of our electronics plugged into additonal surge protectors (the best one's we could afford). One in the overhead, one in the rear, one by the microwave and another in the entertainment bay outside.

You can not have to much surge protection! Lightning or a major power surge can blow past two or three protectors and stop at the fourth or, if your lucky, stop with the first one. Install as much as you can afford and check or change on a regular basis, as many are "one shot devices" and continue to pass current, but offer no protection after the first blast.

[phorner]

Sounds like good advice, Mike.

While installing some microwave radio equipment for a SCADA system, I specified that surge protection wold be required. Every bidder responded that no matter what surge protection was installed, no one could guarantee that the radio equipment would survive a direct lightning strike.

You can only do the best you can and pay those insurance premiums on time...

[Jeff Bayley]

Thank you for the continued replies and advise. I don't think I've ruined anything yet as I have only done testing with the meter and am not planning on rewiring my bus in an effort to solve the problem but only to find the faulty components and replace them or have them replaced. I'll have exhausted my ability to find the faulty components fairly soon. I took John's advise he gave me prior and am only running my aux generator through the shore cord and it has worked well. I think I should start with changing the Leviton Unit as Gary stated and continue using the Progressive unit in the meantime. I got some advise to remove the Leviton unit completley as they had a high failure rate and replace it by using the external unit however as Mike stated you can't too much protection so I'll leave the archeitecture just as it is and hense forth always use the external unit. If something blows the external unit then I still have the on board unit until getting a new external one. Further, the external unit provides no surge protection for the generator as the on board unit does. I don't know if our generators ever surge or not.

John- Thank you for your input. I will be very careful not to modify or change anything. I didn't think to go to Parliment because I didn't know they were familiar with Royal coaches. You made me remember that I might also get on the phone with Royale Phoenix which I forgot about. I haven't been traveling much so I haven't had many maintaince issues.

Does anyone have anything to add or say about the LED lights behind the small front access panel on the front of the inverters that I spoke of ? I'm sorry my description was all over the place and not more fluid and condensed.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jeff, whatever you decide, just keep your safety in mind. There is a lot of potential for problems in these coaches, and if you are unsure try to rely on others who have the need. I mention Parliament because I know they are familiar with a lot of coaches, are near you, and they have some very good techs.

[Sid Tuls]

Just ordered a surge protector that Mango Mike has on his webb page. Got it form www.Tweety.com.

Manufacturer - Progressive Industries

Manufacturer Part No: EMS-PT50C

Cost includes shipping $373.63

[Ray Davis]

Sid,

You'll be glad you did, and that's the best price around. Hey, when are you due at Mira Loma for service. I'm looking forward to meeting you for dinner!

ray

[Sid Tuls]

Ray, I think the first week in Sept. Warren sent me PM maybe we can all go to dinner together. I just got a few minor warranty items to have fixed.

[Richard Barnes]

Ray,

Is this the surge protector you recommended to me? I lost the info you gave me earlier.

[Ray Davis]

Hey Richard,

Yep, this is the one.

Ray

[Richard Barnes]

I'm not sure but power surges in the RV park in Long Beach may have contributed to my inverter problems. It is being repaired as we e-mail. I'm back in Atlanta this week and will return to the Golden State next week. I look forward to OKC. Let's try dinner again before then if you are available.
Thanks for the info, I'm ordering today.

[GDeen]

I bought the PT50C when we bought the coach and really like it. Good peace of mind and fault codes clue you in to any problems which occur while you are away.

[PLSNTVLE2]

This thread has prompted me to finally get a surge protector.

I bought a Smart Surge 50, SSP50 from Proggressive for $142.00. It seems cheaper that some of the units others have bought. Is this thing going to do the job?

I has indicator lights that detect dual line reverse polarity, no ground indicated and or no neutral.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Terry, the one you purchased is probably good, but for my piece of mind I wanted the best, which is why I spent the additional $$$ on the EMS-PT50C.

Your best bet is to compare the small paragraph of information on the web site about the unit you purchased, http://www.progressiveindustries.net/ssp_50.htm
to the entire page of information the more expensive unit provides. http://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems_pt50c.htm

That is just my opinion, and you do what makes you most comfortable when you plug in. Are you sure your Millineium doesn't have a surge protector built in?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I have the one Terry bought. I am not sure any of us knows which is best.

Having one that tells the status of the power, such as faulty ground is a nice thing, but what I want one for is to stop a power surge from toasting my wiring, even if it sacrifices itself.

Bottom line is the features of the different types may be nice, but the protection against lightning or surges is critical and until we have had that happen all we can do is hope they work. Like airbags in a car.

[truk4u]

I have the same as Terry and Jon, seems the more expensive one had it's share of problems and many had to send them back. I know Paul had trouble and Jdub tells me Sponge Bob bought insurance for his!:eek:

[PLSNTVLE2]

Good point Gary. I will check further on the Millennium installed surge protector.

I do know that when I plug into shore power, the Millennium curcuit breaker has a light that shows as a warning if reverse polarity exist.

As Jon mentioned, this is mainly to protect against a lightening strikes and careless utility people.

[Sid Tuls]

Just received my new surge protector from Progressive but heres my question-when you plug your shore cord into the protector it takes about 3-4 minutes to go from inverter mode to shore mode is this how it suppose to work? Thanks

[JIM KELLER]

Sid, Yes. The Progressive unit needs several minutes to check the perimeters in voltage, amperage and frequency. If everything is O.K. it will let you have power. If not you get an error code. Good unit and they stand behind their product. Be sure to keep the box it came in.

[Ray Davis]

As Jim said, that's perfectly fine. But, I think there is a secondary reason, besides checking everything. And that's in case of a power failure, and restart, it allows several minutes so that your A/C compressors can bleed off pressure, preventing an issue trying to start a compressor that is already loaded.

Ray

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Even without the delay provided by a surge protector our systems in our buses likely have the required delays built in.

For example, my Cruise Airs count down before starting. My inverters when powered up have a delay of several seconds and then ramp up slowly. My transfer switch has a delay.

Still, it does not hurt to have the added protection, but nobody needs to run out to get one thinking the delay the surge protector provides is required. Its purpose is to protect against miswired applications and surges such as caused by lightning strikes.

[rmboies]

Good point Gary. I will check further on the Millennium installed surge protector.
I do know that when I plug into shore power, the Millennium curcuit breaker has a light that shows as a warning if reverse polarity exist.


Hey Terry and Chris, hope you both are doing well. Here is a message from Bob-??

"Terry, I thought that Millennium had a built in a surge protector as well. But when I took the cover off in my '05, there was nothing there but the switch. I would suggest checking yours just to be safe. Bob"

[GDeen]

The PT50C has a small light in the lower right hand corner of the display which is illuminated while it is in the delay mode. You can actually hear it switch on if you are nearby.

[PLSNTVLE2]

Hi Debi,
Thanks for forwarding that information from Bob.
I have not checked it yet but my guess is that it is the same as yours. I think it is just a curcuit breaker with a reverse polaity indicator.

The added surge protector is in my opinion a must have.

Yes we are doing great, thanks for asking. Hope everything in SC is wonderful and we hope to see you soon.

[Sid Tuls]

Thanks for all the information. Now I know that it's working the right way.

[Jeff Bayley]

Picking up where I left off many post back on the onboard Leviton surge protector and the in line Progressive unit; I put a Levitron that appears to be new but I got it on Ebay. I instlaled it with exact wiring the way the old one was plumbed in. Now however, both green lights for Line 1 and Line 2 illuminate wheather it's on shore power or generator power. The old one (when working correctly or so I thought) illuminated Line 1 for gen and Line 2 for shore. Not both for either. Now I don't know wheather the old one was correct or if this one is correct and the manual for the Leviton is ambigous. But I know that was one of several probelms and was advised by Gary and others to change that before proceeding.

The inverter is still now working. I spoke with an RV tech I'm seeing Thursday or Friday that informs me of something that was not brought out here which I find odd due to the brain trust here. He said the Trace inverters have an internal transfer switch besides our stand alone automatic transfer switch that could be failing. Anyone ever heard of that ? He says he knows a way to do musical chairs with the wiring to the inverter (through the front access panel) in order to check the internal transfer switch that I've not heard of yet.

Comments appreciated.



I'm fairly certain that I have an inverter issue.

[garyde]

Hi Jeff. Try calling Tech support for leviton. If you got the wiring correct, the line 2 light should not be on. It's indicating with green light that the voltage is ok.

Jon W. had a post regarding inverters and his inverters regarding by-passing the inverters manually if the inverter failed. As I understand it, there are capabilities on some inverters to transfer the load to the shore or generator if the invertor fails.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Some converters have an automatic by-pass in the event of an inverter failure, others have no bypass capability.

If an inverter fails due to the failed internal transfer switch, connect the inverter input power to the inverter power output leads and then you can get shore or generator power to the devices that go through the inverter such as the refrigerator, TVs or outlets.

[Jeff Bayley]

Thanks Jon- I think I'll wait and let the RV Electrician make that bypass and find out what's what instead of having to let the smoke out.

I forgot to add something yesterday. My Progressive Surge Protector; it's showing 122 volts on Line 1 and 15 volts on Line 2. When I check the extension cord (at the same point where the Progressive unit was plugged in), I read 115 to 122 volts on both legs. Progressive unit defective already after such little use ? Members commented that they are good about replacing them. Suppose I should send it in.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Jeff, before you send it in, call Progressive and tell them what you are seeing? They may have some pointers for you to check, before you send it back?

Did you plug your Progressive into another 50amp source to see what the readings are on that line? Verify it is not the incoming source first.

Gary S.

[Jeff Bayley]

Gary-

I phoned Progressive yesterday and did some testing. They determined the unit was bad and (get this), they sent me out a new one with a return label for the old one all without even confirming that I had ever purchased a new one. I told them that the word on this site was that they gave excellent service just like they were giving me. Another good testimonial here.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Jeff, glad it worked out so well for you.

Progressive, your response to Jeffs needs, is truly the sign of a Great Company.

Keep up the good work.

Gary S.

[pwf252]

Heres a question for C.C. owners. Its my understanding that C.C. installed coach mounted surge protectors in our buses. I believe there is one installed on my 02. I'm I correct in my assumption? Thanks for any replies.

[dale farley]

Patrick,

Some came with them and some didn't. I think Roger's 03 has one, so maybe they started installing them at some year after 99. My 99 does
not have one installed. I use a portable one.

[rfoster]

To see if you have one like mine Check just inside on the rear wall of the 3rd bay back on the passenger side.

Another tell tale way to check is whenever you plug into shore power - there is a 2.5 minute delay before your coach powers up.

hope this helps

[truk4u]

My 2000 CC (Jamies Bus) has it in the 3rd bay passenger side (help me Jamie). It's mounted on the rear of the bay and looks similar to this, but an older version with keys:

5900

[Willis Michell]

Hello to all of you, I am in on this conversation a little late. I also need a surge protector and want to ask; is their a real need for the PT50C with the extra features over the SSP-50? I see that Jon uses the SSP-50. Also any experience with the Surge Guard 34750? I have a new coach, 99 Vantare and feel I need to get protected. Thanks.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Willis, you absolutely need to get protected. Use one or the other, but get one of them.

I use the the PT50C which is the more expensive unit, ( Digital Meter and all ) but is it better, who really knows. I have had it replaced once, at no charge by Progessive Industries, but they back all of their products, so no matter which one you get you will be happy.

And by the way, you don't have to do as Jon does, but it is usually best to. :eek: :D

Welcome aboard.

Gary S.


Gary S.

[HarborBus]

I had the Surge Guard 34750 hardwired into our previous coach. I don't think it was ever hit by and spike, it did however report problems of low voltage, bad ground, etc. at several campground over the 5+ years that I used it. I got the PT50C this time as the specs seem to be a little better. The two units are priced about the same so it's your choice but I agree with Gary, you need one.

[dale farley]

Willis, I have both units, and either will protect the bus. I do like the PT50C better because you can always see what is happening at the pole where you are plugged in. I like being able to see my amperage, voltage, and hertz on each leg at all times. At the same time, I don't know that I will pay the difference again if I need another unit.

The reason I have both units is that a bad short at the pole fried my PT50C, so I ordered the cheaper unit until I determined what had caused the failure of the 50C. I returned the 2-3 year old unit to PI, and they knew it was not a problem with their unit, but they replaced it any way. I am now using the PT50C again, and I will keep the other as a spare. I keep mine plugged in "all" the time.

[Willis Michell]

You all are great to respond so fast, glad I joined POG. Anyway I did think Jon was the "last word" but I am thinking I may spring for the PT50C after all. Hope Jon understands. Willis

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Not really sure Willis, but I don't think there was a PT-50C when Jon acquired his SSP-50.

JIM

[James]

Just wondering, is it OK to use the EMS-PT50C on a 30 amp connection using a 30 amp adapter?

Any problems doing this?

[dale farley]

James,

I would think it would work without any problem, and I am reasonably sure I have used mine on 30 amp before. All the device is doing is doing is registering what it sees on each leg. You probably should verify this with Progressive.

[Alek&Lucia]

Just wondering, is it OK to use the EMS-PT50C on a 30 amp connection using a 30 amp adapter?

Any problems doing this?

Works fine, I connected that way few times with no problem.

Alek

[Willis Michell]

James, I checked also trying to Google an ans and it led me to the POG site. Several years ago this subject came up and their seems to be no problem with 30A or even 20 on a 50amp serge protector. Willis

[James]

Thanks, haven't tried it yet and was just wondering.

[Ray Davis]

Just wondering, is it OK to use the EMS-PT50C on a 30 amp connection using a 30 amp adapter?

It works fine, BUT there are a couple of caveats. Remember that a 50A circuit is really two 50A legs, and the PT-50 measures both. A 30A circuit is one 30A circuit, so generally a 30-50 adapter joins both of the 50A legs together. The readout on the PT-50 will still attempt to show each leg, even though they are the combined. I'm pretty sure you have to double the amperage readout to get the real 30A amperage. For example, if my battery charges are each drawing 3A, then the PT-50 will indicate 3A per leg. The total 30A circuit draw will be 6A.

Ray

[Sid Tuls]

I just ordered a 30 amp surge protector from Progessive this afternoon. They have them priced @ $89.00 includes shipping. The reason being the new place that I now have my bus stored at only has 30 amp. So now I'm protected either way:rolleyes:

[Willis Michell]

To follow up with Sid, it is common where I keep my coach to have a 50 Amp plug but they warn you it is really only 30 Amp's per leg. So I usually set the inverter down from 48 to about 28. I assume I am still ok with the 50amp surge protector?...What do you think. Willis

[truk4u]

Willis,

The 30 amp Sid is talking about is really only 120v, not to be confused with 50 amp that is 240v, 2 legs of 50amp. If the 50 amp power you are talking about is only 30 amp on each leg, something is really wrong!

Maybe Gary will jump in here...

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

I just ordered a 30 amp surge protector from Progessive this afternoon. They have them priced @ $89.00 includes shipping. The reason being the new place that I now have my bus stored at only has 30 amp. So now I'm protected either way:rolleyes:

But Sid, if all you have is the 30amp capability, you won't be able to take it with you when you go camping to get 50amp protection at the campground posts, which is probably more important when you are away from home?

Just my 02 cents worth.

Gary S.

[Sid Tuls]

Hi Gary, I also have the PT50C surge protector. I thought (thats the problem me thinking) That I needed a differant unit for 30 amp. I should of called Progressive before ordering it online.:rolleyes:

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Willis,

The 30 amp Sid is talking about is really only 120v, not to be confused with 50 amp that is 240v, 2 legs of 50amp. If the 50 amp power you are talking about is only 30 amp on each leg, something is really wrong!

Maybe Gary will jump in here...


Let me jump in. Since Jamestown Advanced makes the electric boxes perhaps I can make some general comments.

There are three receptacles found in the typical electric box in an RV park. One is 20 amp, GFCI protected. It is generally unsuitable for us to use as a power source for the bus because the way most of our conversions are set up the ground is not established until the transfer switch sees incoming power, and because of that the GFCI will trip. It can be used as a site power outlet such as for a vacuum or any 120 Volt device, but is generally not suitable for our coaches. There are exceptions however. I think Thompson coaches are set up so when there is incoming power it establishes a ground and because of what is called a "soft start" it does not trip the GFCI because it does have a ground connected.

The 30 amp receptacle is an RV specific one and it is 120 volts like the 20 amp receptacle.

The 50 amp receptacle is a completely different animal. It is actually two 120 volt legs each providing 50 amps of power. Depending on how the coach is wired it can provide 100 amps at 120 volts or 50 amps at 240 volts. When Willis mentions he only has 30 amps per leg, that means he can use his 50 amp plug, but if he pulls more than 30 amps from either leg he will trip the breaker in the distribution box. It is probable the owner of the facility did not want excessive electrical use so he limited it by installing 30 amp breakers. I suspect however because he uses a 50 amp receptacle the codes required him to pull heavy wire for 50 amp service.

So specifically 20 amp receptacle is 20 amps. a 30 amp receptacle is 30 amps, but a 50 amp receptacle is 100 amps. If whoever named the receptacles as 20, 30 and 50 instead said 20, 30, and 100 there would be less confusion.

[Ray Davis]

Sid, to the best of my knowledge (I may indeed be wrong), a 30A surge protector will not protect you any better than your 50A. It's my understanding that the surge protectors protect against voltage issues (i.e. under voltage, over voltage, or over voltage spikes). I do not believe that they specifically limit current at 30 or 50A. Again, I could be wrong.

One thing that anyone storing their coach with 30 or 20A power should know is that some inverters expect 50A as standard. My trace inverters, if turned off, or reset, will go back to expecting a shore cord size of 50A. Because of this, the battery chargers default to something like 15-20A per leg.

When I first plug into shore power, my inverters always go into bulk charge mode. If I'm plugged into 30A (my storage power), without adjusting the shore cord size, and/or the battery charging settings, then I will quickly pop a 30A breaker.

IF you're going to use a 30A service, set your shore cord size to no more than 15A per inverter. I actually set them to 13-14A per inverter to leave a little wiggle room. I also set my battery charging down to only 5A per inverter. Since my coach is rarely used dry camping this is generally just fine, as I'm almost always plugged in or I'm driving which charges the batteries too.

I set my settings down like this, so that if there is some sudden electrical usage in the bus while stored (fridge compressor kicking in), I've got plenty of headway, and don't worry about the 30A breaker tripping.

Ray

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Ray's post should be required reading. Not only because people that have a coach with his type inverters need to know these nuances relating to the operation on less than 50 amp, but because his post illustrates an important point.

Ed posted about something he learned about his generator operation on another thread. Pete posted something related to that on the same thread.

All of these posts reflect one very important thing that all owners need to understand, especially those new to their coach. Our coaches are converter and systems specific. There are details relating to their operation that as owners we must learn. I am still learning on mine. The message for all of us is we really have to understand how our systems have been set up, how the various devices such as inverters or auto-start or any other devices work, and how we really need to understand those many little secrets that we only learn the hard way.