Beached Bus

[michaeldterry]

I must be insane for admitting to this here on POG, but I figure that it will eventually be uncovered anyway - and I'd rather tell my side of the horror story first. Yesterday while turning the bus around to pull out of a Binswanger Glass location, I "beached" my bus on a curb/island when the bus tires sunk into the soft ground on the inside of the island that my bus ended up straddling during the tight maneuver. Before I realized what had happened, I was hopelessly stuck on the island and in trying to get off, I yanked the AquaHot exhaust pipe completely loose, buggered up the bottom of one of the bay doors, and bent the outside floor edge of that bay (the AquaHot bay). We've contacted our insurance company, American Modern, and they are having the adjuster contact us in the next couple of days to set up repairs. We've got a $1,000 deductible, so it's not going to be a cheap fix, even with the insurance! As soon as I saw what I'd done, I became literally sick to my stomach. In almost 30 years of driving a bus, I have never "high-sided" one (and can count on two hands the number of times in 30 years I've even clipped a curb with the rear wheels!).

Okay - bring on the taunts and jeers! I earned them! I'm embarrassed, humbled, and humiliated by my display of poor driving skill. My only hope is that the repairs will erase all evidence of my blunder! I feel like I dropped my child on her head!

<a href="http://s21.photobucket.com/albums/b298/michaeldterry/Bus%20Damage/?action=view&current=IMG_0004.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b298/michaeldterry/Bus%20Damage/IMG_0004.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

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<a href="http://s21.photobucket.com/albums/b298/michaeldterry/Bus%20Damage/?action=view&current=IMG_0005.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b298/michaeldterry/Bus%20Damage/IMG_0005.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s21.photobucket.com/albums/b298/michaeldterry/Bus%20Damage/?action=view&current=IMG_0011.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b298/michaeldterry/Bus%20Damage/IMG_0011.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Well - now what? Do I have to wear a POG dunce hat in public for the next year? You guys cannot beat me up any worse than I've already beaten myself!

[michaeldterry]

To add insult to injury, Binswanger wouldn't even attempt to replace my fogged driver side window! They said that they couldn't "tamper" with the special D.O.T. glass, or replace it with a different type glass. They were big enough to offer to install the glass if I could get it from Prevost! (Mighty big of them, eh?) :rolleyes: After my experience there yesterday, I wouldn't darken their door again if my life depended on it! Bitter? Maybe a little... :p

[jonnie]

Michael,

Don't worry!! I am sure that any flak you get because of this incident will all be in the spirit of frienship and mutual understanding and compassion.

John

[michaeldterry]

Michael,

Don't worry!! I am sure that any flak you get because of this incident will all be in the spirit of frienship and mutual understanding and compassion.

John

I know you're right, John. I'm just embarrassed as all get out and heartsore that I hurt my "baby"!

[dalej]

Michael,

Did you try to raise the bus all the way up before you moved?

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Michael, send me those little parts that fell off because you didn't have enough composure to raise the bus before you backed off and I will make you your trophy for OKC.:cool::D

JIM

[michaeldterry]

Michael,

Did you try to raise the bus all the way up before you moved?

Dale - they say hindsight is 20-20. Frankly - I was so freaked out to find myself in that position that I didn't have the mental acuity to consider all my options before I acted! Damn, I really feel stupid! Arrrggghhh! :mad:

[michaeldterry]

Michael, send me those little parts that fell off because you didn't have enough composure to raise the bus before you backed off and I will make you your trophy for OKC.:cool::D

JIM

Jim - I just might take you up on that! (after all - I 'earned' it fair and square!)

[rfoster]

Michael:

I Feel your pain! Been there and done that. Now everytime you look at your bus - that is all you see. Some how the painful memory continues to resurface.

Once upon a time I left one of my bay doors open and pulled out of the garage. The door did NOT make it. I told some of my POG buddies. Next thing I know I am being presented with a dented piece of stainless with a turkey on it at a Rally.

Guess it's your time now.

[phorner]

Man, I feel for ya, Michael. It hurts just looking at the pictures.... and it's not even my bus!

Once you've gotten over the shock and the hurt, you'll probably see that the damage isn't quite as bad as you feel it is right now.

Hopefully, the repairs will end up making your baby even more beautiful than before..... and if this is as bad an experience as you have during your bus ownership, well, consider yourself lucky. It always could have been worse.

Look on the bright side..... the paint wasn't even scratched!

Good luck with your repairs.

[michaeldterry]

You guys are being much kinder than I had expected! Thanks for having mercy on me! I promise that I feel bad enough already! :rolleyes:

[tdelorme]

Michael I know well the sick feeling you went through and it's gonna take time to get over it. My deal was four months ago and I still get a sick feeling in my stomach when I think about it. I hope your insurance company is as easy to work with as mine was. The repair was twice the cost I expected, so grap a seat when the estimate comes in. Make the repair facility give you in writing the time it will take them to do the job. My four or five week verbal estimate turned into eleven weeks. Any new stainless will come unpolished so make sure the shop knows how to polish them. Hang in there, it's just a machine and it can be repaired.

[truk4u]

Michael,

I wouldn't let anyone touch that except Prevost. You are about to learn how much your Insurance Carrier knows about a bus. Insist on the manufacturer making the repairs and estimate.

[Will Garner]

Michael,

Your experience is not unique to this community. I think at one time or another we have all dinged or coaches, some more dinged than others. I think the Sevierville award was for damages approaching $35,000. I think it was something about backing into the corner of a building and tearing up the rear cap. Of course the rear cap had a beautiful custom graphic paint job which jacked up the final bill.

I'm guessing your bill will likely come in under $10,000. So looking at it that way your deductable is a mere 10% of the total. Besides, you are stimulating our depressed economy by providing work for some "qualified" body shop.

As for the stainless parts, contact IBP in Apopka, Fl. Phone number is (800) 468-5287. Ask for Al Renfola, he is my source for dinged up stainless, OK I'm on my third repair job using their parts. Their parts also come polished ready to mount. Also, if that is rust I see on that one panel then that area has likely been hit before and a cheaper chromed panel was used as a replacement.

Trust me, I feel your pain. It does get less painful as time goes by. So hang in there!

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Michael, if you ripped that capped pipe stub out of the Aqua-Hot you may have doubled your repair bill, now that we have seen what Prevostbrad has come up against in pricing the unit.

So Sorry, JIM:(

[garyde]

Hi Michael. Been there, done that.
I've been very fortunate with my Prevost but I've had my moments with several previous Rv's.
Believe me when I say, the recriminations will abate.
Let's all knock on wood for our future journeys and foibles.

[michaeldterry]

Michael,

As for the stainless parts, contact IBP in Apopka, Fl. Phone number is (800) 468-5287. Ask for Al Renfola, he is my source for dinged up stainless, OK I'm on my third repair job using their parts. Their parts also come polished ready to mount. Also, if that is rust I see on that one panel then that area has likely been hit before and a cheaper chromed panel was used as a replacement.

Trust me, I feel your pain. It does get less painful as time goes by. So hang in there!

Will - thanks for the tip on IBP! I've heard that Prevost can be excruciatingly slow in fulfilling stainless panel orders! Also, that's just mud/dirt in the picture - no rust!

[michaeldterry]

Michael,

I wouldn't let anyone touch that except Prevost. You are about to learn how much your Insurance Carrier knows about a bus. Insist on the manufacturer making the repairs and estimate.

Thanks for your guidance, Tom!

[edsaylor]

Michael:

Sorry to hear of your situation. Custom Colors in Port St. Lucie, FL is a super Prevost repair center. They are one of only 5 approved by Prevost in the US! Liberty uses them exclusively. Several years ago I was caught in a hail storm in Texas. There was extinsive dammage down one side and the back doors. Liberty told me that was the only place to take it. Larry Gorman is the owner . phone 772/335-0515. They did outstanding work and dealt with the insurance company. The coach looked new when I got it back. Good Luck.

[Will Garner]

Mike,

The outfit Ed is referring to, Custom Colors, is one of POG's Sponsors. Maybe they will give you a discount if you let them know you are a Man from POG. On the POG home page there is a corporate icon that you can go visit their site thru.

With your damage I would not let some local body shop do the work. These buses are another beast to deal with altogether.

[prevostbrad]

Michael, if you ripped that capped pipe stub out of the Aqua-Hot you may have doubled your repair bill, now that we have seen what Prevostbrad has come up against in pricing the unit.

So Sorry, JIM:(

My thought exactly. At least this is covered by insurance.

[michaeldterry]

Thanks to all for the guidance, suggestions, and (uncharacteristic for POG :p) sensitivity in helping me put this episode behind me!

[Jeff Bayley]

Michael- I did something similar and it wasn't as bad as I thought in the end. The frame of the door (not the skins) was able to be rebuilt and good as new and when I went by a body shop for the best frame, I was surprised to see them straighten by pounding on a 4x4 piece of wood and a sledge hammer. Course if that won't make it like new, then might as well have them replace that floor by welding a new one in since your going to claim it. I didn't claim mine. Oh, I wasn't driving. I had hired an older and very experienced driver to go out on the town so I could drink and ride around and he did it.

[MangoMike]

JDUB,

I guess we won't have to look too far this year.

5172


mm

[michaeldterry]

JDUB,

I guess we won't have to look too far this year.


mm

I take back what I said about the sensitivity! :p

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Every damn one of the folks here are quietly saying "there but for the grace of God go I" so that is the real reason for the compassion, or what seems like compassion.

There is nothing structural in your damage unless in driving it off the island you twisted the bay structure. I'm looking at your photos and what I see is a need to strip the affected compartment(s), jack out the deformation, maybe cut and weld the more severly twisted structure, replace the skins and then start work on the Aquahot.

The repair shops will make it seem like a bigger deal, but it looks like it is an easy fix relatively speaking. If it included a lot of systems plus paint then it would have been a serious oops. Don't let your insurance company take it anywhere but a Prevost shop. They are about to learn about bus conversions and I hope you don't get victmized again.

[rodburtonmusic]

Mine was last fall, coming out of a toll booth in WV. Cost me the small section between the entry door and front wheel, the wheel cover and 2 bay doors.

:) I didn't cry....but could have.

[michaeldterry]

I appreciate all the encouragement, guidance, and suggestions. I'll admit that I am becoming concerned about many of you insisting that these repairs must be done by Prevost. The two Prevost centers closest to me are Goodlettsville, TN (245 miles) and Jacksonville, FL (392 miles). My local RV center of choice, Apalachee RV in Auburn, GA has taken care of the bus since I bought it and is factory trained for AquaHot and many other converter side systems. They also have solid hands on experience with Prevost products and have excellent customer testimonials. To the extent that I am unable to make an extended trip to a distant Prevost service facility and am very reluctant to just "drop the bus off" and leave it to be repaired in my absence, my gut tells me to let Apalachee step up and handle the repairs, so I can at least do personal hands-on inspections as the work progresses. What say you? Am I naive? (wait - don't answer that!) I mean - is there any reason why I should not let Apalachee take this on, since I intend to "ride herd" on the process? For what it's worth, Apalachee has an excellent reputation with my insurer, American Modern.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

If you ever saw the structure of an RV, and compared it to the structure of your bus you would know sending it to an RV dealer it is like sending a Mack truck to the local Chevy dealer for repairs.

Having said that Prevost will do the following. To the maximum extent they will not jack out bent framework but will replace with new to the maximum extent possible. While that is an approach any one is unable to criticize, there will be a lot of cutting and welding on your coach and I don't think the end result will be any different in quality than a good straightening job. I would just want to be sure that the RV dealer understands what they are getting into.

The bay structure is not part of the bus integrity. It literally hangs down from the main support structure which is above the wheel wells. I say that because if Prevost gets their hands on your bus you will be old and gray before they get done. But nobody will do it as well. You just have to decide the route to go.

[jelmore]

Jon, you mention welding ... aren't there some welding caveats on these? Seems I've read that in several places. Wonder if an RV dealer will know about such things.

[truk4u]

Michael,

Take it to Nashville Prevost!

[Coloradobus]

Our last coach had a cracked piece of metal inside the door that the inside pull handle was attached. Marathon warned us that all electronics in the coach would be in jeopardy if any welding was to be done. A bare minimum, all batteries had to be disconnected!!! Prevost Mira Loma found it easier to remove the whole door to repair that cracked weld.
Would an RV dealer know this, I ask? When we have had a major repair, we have made the 1000 mile trip (one way) to Mira Loma and sat with the coach and called it a road trip. Our travel time is valuable, since we both still work, but some things are necessary for piece of mind..

[Jon Wehrenberg]

CObus is right. If there is welding to be done at the very least all the connections to sensitive stuff like the DDEC and ATEC computers need to be disconnected. If there are any house computers they need to be protected by disconnecting them as well.

Welding on our buses is not rare. As can be seen repairs often need weldiing, but Prevost often has recalls where the fix requires welding. The most common reason for a welder to be used is if one of the inner drive axle wheel studs breaks and the tool to remove it fails to work. Then the only alternative is to weld a nut on the end of the stud so it can be removed using the impact wrench.

Welding is OK, but precautions need to be taken.

Removing the battery ground may be how some would do it, but I have removed the power connectors at all electroninc devices so there is no connection between those devices and the chassis. It is more troublesome, but on those occasions when I have welded on my bus I have had no problems.

[phorner]

Michael,

I have never had to have any body work done on our bus, and hopefully never will.

But there have been several posts in the couple of years that I have been a member of POG that speak to the work done either by Prevost directly or a Prevost factory authorized service shop.

It is difficult enough to find a place that you can trust to perform a basic service on a Prevost, let alone get into the fabric of one. I always worry about what happens when something goes wrong, as they almost inevitably do. Once you start taking things apart, you never know what you will find. I want a contractor that I can trust when unexpected things happen. Most vendors shine when everything goes well. Few do when problems arise.

If it were mine, I would do whatever it took to have the repairs made either at a Prevost factory service center or a service facility specifically authorized by Prevost.

Good luck with your repairs.

[hhoppe]

I think a specific proceedure of protecting the electronics should be obtained from Prevost. Maybe this can be gotten from the Prevost Rep. at the POG / OKC rally. Your not concerned with the batteries doing damage in this case. The power from the welding machine sent from the work piece through the coach to the welders ground connection is the culprit. We better get a read friom Prevost.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

There is on the right hand engine compartment door, on the inside a decal of Prevost origin that specifies in red letters the procedure and precautions for welding on the bus.

If you don't have it call your friendly parts man and he will sell you one.:D

JIM

[tdelorme]

It's not the Prevost electronics that would concern me as much as the devices that are convertor specific. Disconnecting the batteries will cover the Prevost stuff and hopefully everything. What about electronics that have their own battery backup? I would think that those items may be grounded to the frame at the attachment points, so is there a possibility of damage when welding on the coach? I would disconnect every battery including the gen set, unplug or disconnect every invertor, charger, TV, microwave and anything I could think of that could suffer damage. Michael, do we have you worried yet??

[michaeldterry]

Michael, do we have you worried yet??

Nahhhhh - more like TERRIFIED! :eek: :p

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Gentlemen.......A number of you have indicated to remove the battery ground. Where specifically are you getting that information? If I remove the battery ground, and then clamp the ground for the welder on the bus have you not negated what you just did? Would it not be more appropriate to disconnect the power leads to all elctronic devices?

When I first started welding on my bus due to a broken wheel stud I was instructed to remove the DDEC and ATEC power connections at the modules. That bus had no other computerized devices. I would follow the same method to isolate computerized devices even though it will be a lot of work.

BTW, I doubt if there will be damage to electronic devices if you do weld on your coach and the reason the items are isolated electrically is to prevent that slim chance damage will occur from happening. I have seen shops weld on vehicles with computers and electronics without any harm even though they were not disconnected. It's the old risk versus reward equation.

[gmcbuffalo]

I think one of the key factors is a welding ground close to work being done. Some the electronics don't become part of the electrical circuit path.
GregM

[michaeldterry]

You guys have been so candid and generous with your feedback, cautions, guidance, and suggestions regarding the repair of my bus that I wanted to give you an update regarding our decision process to choose a repair facility. We've just spoken with the owner of our preferred local service center, Dave Kobos of Apalachee RV Center in Duncan, GA (61 miles from our home). We were straight up with Dave regarding the concerns expressed here about an RV service center working on a Prevost. I'm happy to report that Dave confirmed that Apalachee RV is an authorized Prevost repair facility that has dedicated factory trained Prevost collision repair specialists on staff. They are also factory authorized by AquaHot (and, in fact, corrected an AquaHot problem that surfaced just after we first bought the bus). Dave and his top Prevost guy have reviewed the pictures of the damage and described to us his preliminary plan of attack (subject to alteration upon actually assessing the damage in person, of course). The major steps described by Dave so far mirrors exactly the suggestions that many of you have voiced - right down to the welding cautions (Dave does recommend replacing, and reinforcing the floor of the bent bay). Dave did comment that having a regular RV Center tackle this restoration would be like asking a bicycle shop to work on the space shuttle, so he understood and respected the concerns of my POG brethren.

Bottom line, we've made the decision to take the bus to Apalachee RV for a detailed inspection and repair estimate. If I hear anything in the process that shakes my current confidence level in Dave's team, I reserve the right to take the bus to another repair facility (probably Parliament Coach in Clearwater, FL).

Am I doing the right thing? Who knows? <shrug> At this time, it feels right in my gut. Apalachee has done right by us so far (including modifying some of the controls - like repositioning the emergency brake button) to accomodate my disability/lack of mobility and make the bus easier/safer for me to operate.

If I'm making a mistake, time will tell and I'll own up to it and share my tale of woe as a caution to other poor Prevost newbies (I have very little shame left at this juncture of my life! :rolleyes:).

Thanks again for sharing your collective experience and wisdom. It is much appreciated and sincerely respected.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Do it and don't look back. You took the concerns expressed here to the shop you are considering and he said all the right things.

The fact that he is a Prevost shop reinforces that.

And he is close enough to you so you can monitor the progress and stop things if something gets out of hand.

[tdelorme]

Good luck on the repair Michael, I hope it goes well.

There is not currently an award for "Oh Crap, I Picked The Wrong Repair Shop" but I think Mango & JDUB can come up with something if necessary.

I'm jerking your chain. You will be fine.

[sawdust_128]

Michael:

You have done everything to prepare yourselve to make these hard decisions and swing the odds of success your way. At his point, all I can do is wish you Good Luck and hope that the Gods of the torch, spray gun and polishing pad are all kind to you.

Keep the faith.

[michaeldterry]

Thanks guys! I will keep POG posted on the progress and the final outcome/results. We should be driving the bus out to Apalachee tomorrow for a detailed inspection, estimate, and repair go/no go decision.

[phorner]

Don't forget to document the repairs/progress with plenty of pictures. They may be useful to you in the future.

And posting 'em for the group here might lead to a learning experience for all of us.

Good luck with your repairs. Sounds like you have made a good decision regarding the service facility.

Hopefully, the most painful part will just be the time spent apart from your beloved bus :mad:

[Richard Barnes]

Michael.

I live ten miles from this shop (Dacula) and they've done work on my previously owned 2008 Monaco Executive. I no longer own that RV and they have not done any work on my current Prevost coach. That is primarily because I've not been satisfied with their previous work. During my last visit, I watched them replace two rub rails on a Liberty Coach and based on that, I'd make the trip to Nashville.