Silverleaf Electronics

[jack14r]

Does anyone use Silverleaf Electronics with the series 60,if so which one and how many parameters does it show?

[HarborBus]

I'd like to know the answer as well. I had/have (haven't sold it yet) a Silverleaf in the Beaver Marquis and I love it, I never looked at the analog gauges and it is nice to know exactly the digital read out of everything. We have a situation with the gauge cluster in the Bus, the digital temperature gauge is 9-11 degrees higher than the analog gauge and it was determined by Marathon with the assistance of Prevost that the analog gauge is correct and the digital gauge is wrong (the two gauges are fed off the same wire/sensor). I was advised the gauge cluster could be replaced at a cost of $1170.00 + labor:eek:. So I guess my point is I'd rather have the Silverleaf as it monitors so much more than the gauges, digitally

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I think Kim Sloan has it. (Nrhareiner)

[Jeff Bayley]

I've beem emailing the people at Silverleaf.

Silverleaf say's they have a rep in the area at the time of the OKC rally and can come by. I'm trying to get them talking to Jim Skiff who I presume would be neccessary to bless their doing a talk. Maybe more so if he thinks the group wants it. I think they would have products on hand to sell and they say they can spend some time doing the basic set up and maybe they can show other owners of it a few new tricks. Out of fairness to the rep and also members time, I guess we could get an idea of what the interest is for people buying any of their products. Maybe a memeber that owns the Silverleaf can do just as good a job but the rep is supposedly not going far out out of his way. I'd like to get my stuff ahead of time if their's no demand and fiddle around with installing and playing with it at the rally.

http://www.silverleafelectronics.com The VMSPC is the lap top version.

I think at least a half dozen POG'ers have it and everyone seems to love it. For those that missed some of the comments here's just a few but you can find more by searching for "Silverleaf" on the search function. http://forum.prevostownersgroup.com/showthread.php?t=2175&page=2&highlight=silverleaf

I'm going to get this whether they come to the rally or not. It's only $400 including the hardware adapter and the software instead of $1,200 for a new Pro Driver. 1/3 the price, 3 times better. I'm posting this for other Silverleaf owners to find out how many are coming to OKC and also to get suggestions on which spare monitor to get since the Pro Driver can come right out of the dash and a jig saw or dremel or the like can be used to make the opening larger to accommodate a 7" monitor. I think there's enough room but still need to measure. I saw a spare monitor on Silverleaf's sites that one of the members here pointed out ( http://www.silverleafelectronics.com/?q=node/84 ) where the owner mounted a 7" monitor on the top left of his dash which was ok but why not stick it where the Pro Driver goes since that is junk (mine anyhow). He must use the array option on the computer. ??? Some people just use a split screen on the lap top and size the windows to see both. Would appreciate opinions from other owners here of how the Pro's and Con's of different set ups. Three's a forum on Silverleaf's site where I'll probably post a copy of this also but not sure how active that forum is.

Here's an excerpt from my response to the Silverleaf rep. See ? Just an excerpt. Shortening posts still needs work I know. If only I could break one hand........wait, bad suggestion. Might provoke a freak accident at OKC.

Jim- After reading your email I decided it's best not to attempt a dedicated computer. But if you don't hook the computer each time, presume it will muck up your data or does the $400 brain continue to keep tabs ?

I'll have the extra space from the Pro Driver available for a bout a 7" monitor. There's room to remove the panel it mounts to and open the hold a bit more if necessary. Using an array set up for two monitors it should should let you put what ever window (program) you want on the small screen and resize it to fit whether that is the GPS software or the Silverleaf monitor. It's been a while since I used two monitors on one computer which was a tower/home computer and can't remember if it required an accessory to use it. I don't think it did.

[phorner]

Although I don't have Silverleaf instrumentation in the bus, I have had their product in 2 Safari motorhomes. I was very happy with both their product and customer support.

This was a few years ago and, at the time, they impressed me as a class act.

[Lawrence M.]

I had Silverleaf in my Country Coach and was very pleased with it. I will put one in my bus when I finally decide on which model to purchase.

[jack14r]

I purchased a vms 120 with the pressure pro receiver,they have it on sale for $500.When I found out that I had a charge air cooler that had failed I realized that I would have known it sooner if I had the Silverleaf.It is a easy installation and the amount of data is incredible.I now know that the actual maximum boost is 45.8 PSI,I have also seen turbo boost air temperatures of over 220 degrees,at a little over 220 degrees the DDEC kicks out a air temperature code.I have discussed this with my Detroit Diesel service center and they think that the Prevost installation has some real flaws.The turbo air temperature is OK if the clutch fan is engaged but many times in hilly areas we are going down hill with zero throttle and then we go uphill at 100% throttle,if the water temperature is around 180 degrees it will be a while before the water temperature commands the clutch fan to engage which happens at about 193 degrees,all the while the charge air cooler is getting hotter because there is no airflow across the coils to cool it.I am going to add two electric fans in front of my charge air cooler to try and reduce the temperature.If I can just reduce it 20-30 degrees it will quit kicking out codes.

[tdelorme]

I had the Silverleaf system in our plastic Country Coach that I ran on a small laptop mounted on a stand to drivers right. I also ran DeLorme Mapping with their GPS, split screan with the Silverleaf. I was neat having all the information from the system and it maintains a history like the Detroit system. With that setup, I had three speed readings, which were always within one MPH of each other. I left it in the coach when we sold it because there is just not room in the Liberty for a computer stand. It may well have saved my engine last week, but I will never know.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i174/tdelorme1/DSCF0136.jpg

[Jeff Bayley]

Larry-

Two possible suggestions. You could get a mini computer like this HP with dimms of 10.3 in (L) x 6.77 in (W) x 1.04-1.29 in (H) Under $300. http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_can_series.do?storeName=computer_store&category=notebooks&a1=Category&v1=Mini&series_name=mini110mi_series as a dedicated system if it would fit on your dash or you could put a small remote LCD screen where the old Pro Driver is and view your stats there and let the mini computer stow away somewhere like an overhead compartment or maybe between the front dash and the windshield. I'm sure you could set the preferences to keep from hibernating if you close the lid so the CPU and monitor output keep working. They also have in dash systems like a Pro Driver but better (and cheaper).

[Jeff Bayley]

Although I started this thread on Silverleaf, I never got one but now I'm ready since I'm using the bus again. I have to re-read my own comments to pick up where I left off as I had done a bit of research on it that I've now forgotten about. Thought to see if anyone else had picked one up since the time this thread fizzled out or had any other good set up ideas. I'm planning on disposing of my Pro Driver (unless someone says that's a no no) and just using this which means I have the space in my dash for a small monitor or I might just get a compact laptop dedicated to it. It will sit on my dash just fine and it can double up for other minor stuff also.

Anything new I should know about before I call the guy at Silverleaf and decide on a system ?

[HarborBus]

Jeff I had the 440 installed Nov '09, we had one in our plastic coach and I wouldn't be without one. Way more information than the Pro Driver and more user friendly. The least expensive way to go is to buy the software and use a mini laptop. For the newer coaches they can overlay the information on a present video feed ie: backup camera etc. My bus didn't have the right electronics to do this but I would have loved to do it as it is way cheaper than the way I went.

[jack14r]

I have a VMS-120 with the pressure pro option that was free at the time I ordered it,it is awesome.I can see the actual turbo boost(46PSI)and actual temps including intake after the innercooler,and lots of info that I really don't need.

[Orren Zook]

Jack, I especially like the fuel temp option.... so I've got mine programmed to skip the display of readings I'm not interested in

[jack14r]

I have done the same.

[Jeff Bayley]

Elliot- You say you "had the 440 installed". Are these just plug and play or is there some installation ? I was going to order one to have it shipped to Pittsburg where we are going next for a work call. Don't I just plug it in to the same port where Detroit plugs in by the drivers seat or does it plug in to the connector and take the place of the pro-driver ? My pro-driver is bad. It is disconnected. It was making the engine mis-fire and by unplugging it the problem went away. If I can plug it into the connector for the Pro-Driver, then I don't need to route a cable to the dash. I know Silverleaf cna probabley answer these questions but I want any end user input also to get it right the first time.

VMS-120 vs 440 ? Are those what i should pick from if I'm going to use a min lap top ? I'm going back to browse the products again now, now that you guys replied. I don't know if I could find an LCD to fit where the Pro-Driver is now or not. I've got about an inch to play with on all 4 sides to put something a bit bigger but with the lap top I have more customization yes ?

Ok, I just checked them out. I see now. The 120 is the cheap display if your going to use a mini lap top. They all come with some form of display then I suppose that you just leave in the box and subsitutie for the lap top I presume.

[HarborBus]

Jeff, I think you are a little confused, so let me try to clarify. The VMS 120LC, VMS 240CL, the VMS440CL, and the VMS 640 are all stand alone devices. The VMSpc is the software for the computer it is found at:
http://www.silverleafelectronics.com/?q=node/6.

The stand alone devices all plug into the diagnostic plug. I don't know if you have this plug but obviously you have something like it that the Pro Driver plugs into. I think the VMSpc has an adapter that plugs into the computer but I 'm not sure how they set it up since I've never had experience with that system. Call Martin Perlot, he is the owner and he can tell you what you need based on the year of your bus and the system you decide on. When I said "I had the 440 installed" they had to do some modifications to the dash by removing my existing back-up monitor and using that space to install the VMS 440CL, as it has the back-up monitor display in it . Hope this helps.

[nrhareiner]

Good afternoon Jeff,

I have had an used the Silverleaf product in the bus since 2007. I have the 400 series. The recent model is the 440. It gives me a world of information while on the road. You can choose the parameters to monitor. It will give you the description of any code the the series 60 throws. I know I would not want to be without the Silverleaf.

[Jeff Bayley]

Thank you guys very much for the additional information. I think I'm ready to go ahead and give them a call, tell them the vintage of my bus, and get it ordered on Monday. Thank you for the input.

[Jeff Bayley]

I never got the Silverleaf unit yet but am ordering it today. The VPC model that uses a mini lap top. I want to put a slave monitor for the passenger side. How have other of you installed the wiring for the video input to the passenger side ? And what brackets can you recommend (or discourage if you don't like them) for the passenger side.

A picture of my dash is below. I'm installing a new stereo with a flip out screen and built in GPS. The location of the current radio is too low to see the screen so I'm disposing of the compass and outside temperature gauge (below the back up monitor to put it there. I'm also ditching the antiquated back up monitor since the head unit and flip up screen double as a back up monitor. Any suggestions of useful hardware I can put where the stereo is at now ? Otherwise I'll need to cover the hole with the same useless compass that I'm want gone. I might remake that whole piece out of nice hardwood since there will be a hole where the monitor is. Anyone else done this ? Would love to see how it came out. The Pro Driver stopped working so that is dead space that can be used for something else also. Maybe I should put the LCD for the Silverleaf somewhere in there.

Anyone heard anything good or bad about the Silverleaf Glass Dash which replaces all the gauges with a digital dash ? I'm not undertaking that now but curious.

I also think I need some of the push button switches. I put new bulbs in them but the sockets or something else is still not letting the lights work. Not a huge deal but if I wind up making a new dash piece, all those switches have to come out anyway so I could put replacements if I know where to order them. Maybe they will start to work in the process of jiggling them upon remounting them. Maybe some of them never were meant to light up to begin with ? This is a 97 Royal for any comments which I'm soliciting.

Unrelated, where do I find the dryer for the air system and how to check it for replacement ? I never even knew it needed to be checked until I read some other posts recently. I guess it will be self evident if it needs changing but I've but 50k miles on the bus and had it 5 years so guessing it needs changing. I also need to locate the aux air tank and drain that of moisture which I've never done but Prevost probably did 3 years ago when they were tracking down air leaks but I should assume that dumb and dumber did it and need to check myself.

Also, I need a new muffler. Around $650 I was quoted from Prevost Parts. Suggestions for where to get elsewhere ? My stainless extension that is the exhaust exit on the driver side that attaches to the end of the muffler is crunched. I suppose one from just about any converter would work. Where to order to save ? All replies very much appreciated.

[gmcbuffalo]

Jeff
My Air Dryer was between the drive axle and the tag on the passenger side of the bus. I don't think Lew had any pictures but he did an article on making a replacement dash of of wood.
GregM

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jeff, Where Greg describes the air dryer location is correct for earlier coaches, your Angola possibly having it there.

On the 97 it is likely high up on the frame ahead of the drive axle, passenger side. If you see evidence of oil on the coach around where the dryer "spits" you can bet it is far beyond the element's life limit. Failure to keep the dryer serviced could lead to moisture getting into the bus air system, and the likely impact could be corrosion from the inside of all valves and moving parts. At worst the system could be filled with water and you could end up with the Norgren suspension valves not functioning at all.

[gmcbuffalo]

Jeff I just recently changed mine, and as I look back on it, older version AD-2, it was easy. My big aprehension was the the warning about the relieving the air pressure. Once done it was like med school "see one, do one, teach one".
Greg

[stevet903]

Jeff - I think that these are the switches you are looking for....

http://www.newark.com/jsp/content/printCatalog.jsp?display=single&cat=c127&page=1738

[BenC]

The "glass dash" from Silverleaf is quite pricey at $11,000 for just the parts. They were optimized for use with the WTEC transmission. The installation would probably require more input/interface equipment/modules if you have an ATEC transmission, as the data on the J1587 data link from those transmissions is limited. The same is true the older the DDEC version you have. It has been a while since I attached a Prolink to and ATEC trans, so I cannot remember exactly what information was available. If you have/have access to a Prolink with the ATEC card, take a look. That is the data that is easy for Silverleaf to display as a gauge. Other information, like fuel level, and air pressures must obtain that information via an input module that they would have to supply that converts that information into what the dash display computer can "read." Just some things to consider in your information gathering before talking with Martin about a unit.

[Jeff Bayley]

I was going to dispose of my defective Pro Driver since I had the Silverleaf coming but Gary Swain (new POG member, owner and mobile Satellite tech) pointed out to me that I might want to try and leave a working one in the dash since the next owner might be expecting one to be there. I didn't think about that. Does Detroit repair these ? Anyone had there's repaired ? Need to know if I send it to Detroit to fix, trade it in, or ????

I'm here with Gary Swain in Elkhart. Tomorrow he's going to help me get my receiver upgraded to DVR's (receivers with recorders) and add a second receiver (also DVR). He hasn't even started the work yet but I already knew I was in capable hands after he took the time to explain to me in detail by email and phone what was what and what was recommended. I had my system on my first bus installed by a Motosat dealer/tech and Prevost owner so he understood the installation on the bus much better than the average dealer. Gary has an XLII and he sized up what he was going to do tomorrow and I'm going to sleep good tonight knowing that the job is going to be done right. Garys knowledge of systems (not just Motosat systems but all brands of hardware and services) is without peer. He said he reads two hours a day to keep up with the latest changes in the industry. I could hardly believe that but he doesn’t just install and service one brand, he does a lot of stuff including amping up cell phones to work better with external antennas and boosters from Wilson products. I'm getting that upgrade too. Llyod's post was the one that convinced me it was worth it and affordable too.

If anyone needs their systems serviced or upgraded go through the trouble to see where you can meet up with Gary on his traveling schedule. It's the same price as getting Dumb and Dumber to do the work so why not go first class for the same price ?

There’s a big RV show lasting about a week in Louisville KY that is going to have all kinds of vendors for RV accessories like custom made windshield shades and custom made runners and on and on. I'm going to have to make a run down there to get the cell phone hot spot installed in the bus. Lloyd made a recent post where he described using Wilson products to do this here: http://forum.prevostownersgroup.com/showthread.php?3706-Best-Cellular-Booster-System&highlight=wilson

Gary is going to rig me up with an architecture like this or better but needs to order the components to meet up in KY with us. We spend a decent amount of time talking about poor service so here's a good referral for anyone needing any communications or satellite work.

I'll confirm tomorrow after I'm watching the new system but I think the install is going to pretty uneventful and trouble free.

[Jeff Bayley]

I'm just posting the follow up I said I would about my Motosat install. Just as expected. It was done fast and right. Gary eliminated the switch box and other unnessary stuff. Got my shore cable working again. I got two DVR receivers that will record 4 different channels at once while I can still watch a pre-recorded show from the DVR. My system is the Executive which is not in motion and I prefer for the better reception. So someone could still watch tons of recorded programing they had done while driving. The DVR's still record even when they are off as long as the dish is up. I can't say enough good things about Gary and Custom Coach Connections. It's refreshing to meet someone that knows exactly what they are doing, exactly where to go to fix the problem and doesn't have to get on the phone with technical support. He gave me a fixed price and stuck to his estimate even thought it took a lot longer due to issues I he had to iron out that he had no way of knowing about before hand. Gary installs all the other brands of systems too, not just Motosat. I just happen to like the Motosat and especially the Executive Dish. That's my shame less plug for a business that deserves every word of it.