help 97 vogue

[CFleck]

I need your help. I am bidding on a 1997 Vogue built by mitchell bus co. It has 213,436 miles. It is on ebay 100,000.00 dollars so far. Owner says it has been to provost for complete check up.I need all comments.The bus is in tenn.

[Jerry Winchester]

Well I don't know what kind of help you are looking for, but buying a coach sight unseen is a tough trick. It can be done, but the risks are high.

What looks like a cheap price really depends on the shape of the coach and I would be less worried about the Prevost chassis and more worried about the house part. That is where you can spend a chunk of money.

Unless you are willing and able to do the maintenance and repair work on your own, I would go with caveat emptor.

[CFleck]

Jerry I think the price is right and the owner is hattcher chevy dealer from brownsville tenn. he said new batteries ,prevost inspection, does that mean anything. I have no idea what a good bus is , but i read all the posts you guys wrote and the seller says all the right words. I would like to take one of you with me. I see that Jon lives in tenn. also i thought i could pay him or anyone to go with me to look it over first. Do you think someone would do that?

[michaeldterry]

I need your help. I am bidding on a 1997 Vogue built by mitchell bus co. It has 213,436 miles. It is on ebay 100,000.00 dollars so far. Owner says it has been to provost for complete check up.I need all comments.The bus is in tenn.

For reference, here is a link to the eBay listing for the Vogue that CFleck is researching: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1997-Prevost-XL45-Vogue-Conversion_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ65Q3a12Q7c6 6Q3a2Q7c39Q3a1Q7c72Q3a317Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_t rksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem2ea680c8c7QQitemZ 200361953479QQptZRVsQ5fCampers

[dale farley]

I noticed the description mentions a "Reserve Price" but the listing doesn't say there is a reserve, so I am not sure what they are looking to get for the bus. I believe I would get this point cleared up before I spend much time on the listing.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Ditto what Jerry said.

If I had to bid it without seeing it in person I would ask for very highly detailed photos of the interior such that I could see wear and tear, and any expensive damage to be repaired.

I know of coaches that have had cracked Corian countertops, cracked floor tiles, and odors that can never be conveyed via photographs.

If you determine the current market price for a coach of that caliber, and then assume all tires need to be replaced, all air bags, all brake chambers, all suspension valves and brake pads and shoes you can at least let your bid reflect that.

What you are buying on faith is that expensive items like the generator, AC units, TVs, AquaHot, and all systems are functioning properly.

I don't want to throw cold water on what may be a good buy, but if you cannot get to look at it, at least bid according to worst case scenario.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I forgot to mention, I would have run down to look at it in a heartbeat, but I have a plane getting an engine installed, plus last minute stuff getting set for Oshkosh so I do not have the time to drive to the Memphis area. Thats almost 400 miles away.

[CFleck]

I have met the reserve. if you look at the link you can see the unit. i need some advice before i spend that much money for my dream instead of my nightmare. :confused:

[CFleck]

thank you Jon for your comments. Is there anyone else in tenn. that you can recommend. The owner said everything works had it to prevost in Nashville. They put on 2 new air bags,new house batteries,has all paperwork. The work was done 6 months ago. Seems like a great price for this coach.But I don't know enough.

[CFleck]

Jon, could I pay you to fly down and look at it. just a thought

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I'm out of time. My only open day without firm appointments is Tuesday, and that is going to be spent setting up the pilotsnpaws booth in my garage prior to packing and loading it for the EAA Airventure where we have a booth.

I actually think Joe Cannarozzi is closer and I would recommend him to go look at it.

Let me give you a pessimistic perspective. I want you covered so as issues arise you will have compensated for them.

That bus is at the age when to make it trouble free (chassis) it needs to have air bags less than 10 years old, brake chambers less than five years old, brake pads and linings with adequate remaining thickness, and likely new or nearly new suspension system valves.

If 2 air bags needed replacing you can bet the farm the others are either nearly new, or they need to be replaced.

Tires need to be less than 5 years old and free of sidewall cracking.

I would insist on receipts or a maintenance log. Absent proof the coach has had continuing preventive maintenance I would plan on every single drop of fluid and every filter needing to be changed. I have yet to hear any owner, including those that I know don't do a damn thing on maintenance until something is broke, say they do not maintain their coach properly. The standard BS is maintenance has been done by the converter or Prevost. I think some owners think if they take a coach to Prevost to replace a light bulb that constitutes Prevost maintenance. My point should be crystal clear...if there are no records proving continuous timely maintenance, treat it as not having been done.

As to the interior, although the interior is down on my list of things that are important, the interior is the first thing we look at. If it smells, if it shows signs of abuse, or if it is just worn out we're done looking. People usually ignore the mechanical stuff while they keep the cosmetics looking good. If the cosmetics, such as the interior or exterior have not been well maintained you can be fairly certain the engine, transmission, coolant, generator, etc have been ignored.

I would not buy a coach without having Detroit / Allison pull the codes.

There are a lot of very good coaches on the market, most being sold by the owners who will be proud to show you the coach, show you the maintenance records and answer every question you have. This coach may be one of them. But if it does not work out, you can be assured there are others out there.

[CFleck]

Thank you Jon, your comments are greatly appreciated. I guess my enthusiasm for a prevost at a great price is just to much for me to handle. But as of right now I am the high bidder at 100,000.00 dollars. The auction is over Tuesday. If the owner is telling the truth is this a great buy or not.:confused:

[garyde]

Because of it's age, i would want to know where it's been serviced and get more info if possible from those people. But Jon's right, there is so many things to verify, time is on your side. Take your time while searching.

[truk4u]

Make your e-bay purchase subject to inspection. If it turns out to be a money pit, all you have invested is the time and money spent to check it out and your not on the hook to buy. Either try to get Joe to help you out or have them take it to Prevost Nashville for a pre-buy inspection. If the seller is reluctant to allow an inspection, run fast the other direction.

[Sid Tuls]

Just my 2cents if you buy it from a private party they can be of help down the road. I had this happen to me a couple weeks ago and it sure is nice to have someone that knows your coach!!

[lonesome george]

Charlie,
IMHO if this owner is willing to sell this coach for 100k, that is what he thinks it worth.
What I take from the pictures is this bus needs to be looked at very carefully as well as the maintenance records.
Take a deep breath and take an even closer look at the coach.
A bus needs a little work can consume a big pile of cash!

[Jerry Winchester]

Well a '97 for $100K is a pretty good deal if it doesn't have a major glitch in it somewhere, but the mileage is high for a 12 year old coach if you assume most coaches average 10K miles a year.

However, from looking at the pictures, I would not put a Vogue in the same class as a Liberty or Marathon which could be a steal at that price. But I have to remember that I sold my '92 40'er just a little more than a year and a half ago for $137 and it was no where near as nice a coach as this one could be.

I don't remember how long the auction lasts, but having Joe go over it would be cheap insurance.

[Pete]

At least have it taken to Prevost in Nashville for a PDI. I can tell you that the coach looks well used...and rather high mileage as Jerry stated. If it has been well maintained mechanically that should not be a major concern. If you want to remove all of the initials ect. and repair the paint along the waist line, if done properly, would be 4 to 5 grand. Look closely at the paint, you can see rivets exposed with no paint covering them...have they been replaced? are they a result of stress? The coach batteries are missing the cover, and the support brace for the cover is laying in the jack tray...not a sign of quality maintenance.
If you are satisfied with the interior fine, if not, the recovering or the replacement of the sofa (look at the lower section for stains ect) look carefully at the rug in front of the sofa...not signs of a well cared for coach. You can easily spend 10 grand on the interior. Please understand, without looking a the coach first hand, it is very difficult to see items of potential need, just pointing out a few items that are obvious. Tires could be 5 grand if needed to be replaced....all things that could make a coach that seemed to be a good buy a real surprise! Be cautious.

[tdelorme]

The eBay description states "The prior owner took great care of this vehicle's exterior," but several pictures show paint pealing under several windows. For me that would be reason number one to not trust this seller. Looks rode hard and put up wet but the only way to know for sure is to see it in person. Pictures are nice but I bet there's more to the story than what you are seeing. Buy it for your current bid and be willing to put that much in it again and your good to go. A decent paint job will run you $30,000.

[HarborBus]

I don't want to rain on your parade, BUT you have less than two days left and you made your bid on the 11Th two hours after the listing hit eBay:eek:. I think I would have been getting the advice your getting now, before you bid on the bus. Everything the fellas could suggest appears to be moot because it looks like you have bought yourself a bus unless you get lucky and someone out bids you. I don't think I would buy something as complex as these machines are, sight unseen. I know your reeeeeally excited but like you say, you don't want your dream to become a nightmare.

[michaeldterry]

I don't want to rain on your parade, BUT you have less than two days left and you made your bid on the 11Th two hours after the listing hit eBay:eek:. I think I would have been getting the advice your getting now, before you bid on the bus. Everything the fellas could suggest appears to be moot because it looks like you have bought yourself a bus unless you get lucky and someone out bids you. I don't think I would buy something as complex as these machines are, sight unseen. I know your reeeeeally excited but like you say, you don't want your dream to become a nightmare.

On the other hand, I bought my bus on eBay in January of this year before I even thought to ask for prepurchase guidance from the POG braintrust. It was literally a middle of the night purchase made during a bout of insomnia. I found the bus that seemed to be everything we had been shopping for for months and the eBay auction was ending in two hours. The reserve had not been met yet. I thought a few minutes, decided to bid a few thousand less than I had budgeted for my eventual Prevost purchase and entered my bid - not thinking my bid would even cover the unknown reserve price. Low and behold, ebay showed me as the current high bidder and that the reserve had been met! And this with one hour, 45 minutes left on the auction at 3:30AM. I sheepishly returned to bed, woke Vita and told her that I may have just bought a bus. She didn't believe me, but didn't kick my ass out of bed, either! Needless to say, sleep was now farther away than ever and I rose every few minutes, crept to my computer in the study and monitored the progress of the auction. Apparently, all the sane/normal people were asleep because when the auction closed, I was the "winner" with a winning bid that was almost $70,000 under what the POG Prevost pricing guide suggested the bus was worth. I did immediately begin researching how I could protect myself from getting screwed without a even a kiss and located a Prevost Purchase Inspection article on POG that was submitted by Jon Wehrenberg. Vita and I studied the article closely and converted it to an Excel checklist that I then e-mailed to the RV Dealer in Kentucky that was the seller. I informed him that we would be following the checklist in minute detail when we arrived to pick up the coach the next week and it would behoove him to insure that each and every item was functional and within specs prior to our arrival if he wanted to consumate the sale and take delivery of the cashiers check for the purchase price. We did exactly as I had told the dealer and went over the bus with a fine tooth comb when we arrived. The dealer was able to show documentation of pre-delivery maintenance work he'd had performed in anticipation of me being a "picky" buyer, including oil and filter changes for both the generator and the Series 60, chassis lubrication, airbag inspection, brake system inspection, and much more. With a couple of very minor cosmetic exceptions (easily corrected), the bus passed our inspection with flying colors! I know I got lucky, because our bus has been everything that was represented and more! However, because I was a newbie who made a rash purchase decision sight unseen, it could also have been a disappointment at best, or a disaster at worst!

I guess my point is this: Even though there are a lot of extraordinary coaches on the market right now for bargain prices, it makes sense to take advantage of the expertise that is readily available here on POG to make sure that you don't end up spending a great deal of cash on a "pig in a poke." Because, let's be honest - unless you are fabulously wealthy (and I'm the farthest thing from that - darn it), even the "bargain" prices represent a great deal of money that most prople can't afford to put at risk with an ill considered buying decision.

I did get lucky, but I don't advocate the way I purchased my bus for anyone else. I know that I would certainly ask for help from this group if I had it all to do over again! But - I repeat - I got lucky and got a phenomenal bus at a great price, so I realize that my caution to you may sound hypocritical. If you choose to purchase sight unseen without the advice of experts, please do not spend more than you can afford to lose (or more than you can afford to possibly double in restoration costs soon after your purchase).

Having said all that, I love my bus and wouldn't trade it for the world (unless I could then sell "the world" for enough to buy me a brand spanking new one straight from the converter)! :p

CFleck - good luck on your possible eBay purchase! I hope it works out as well for you as it did for me! If you do end up being the winning bidder, I would advise you to immediately notify the seller that the bus will have to pass your PDI (Pre-Delivery Inspection) prior to any money changing hands and then review Jon's Prevost Purchase Inspection article to inform yourself of exactly what to look for. Here is a link: http://www.prevostownersgroup.com/public/index.cfm?fuseaction=articles.view&id=3723&publicationtype=Articles

If you want after you review Jon's article, I'll try to dig up our Excel version in checklist form (I'm sure that between Vita and I, we kept it on one of the computers) and e-mail it to you, as well.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I think if the seller is willing to sell pending an inspection there is nothing wrong with a sight unseen purchase. Any seller that is afraid of an inspection is hiding something. It's as simple as that.

The first bus purchase is the hardest. A buyer not only is trying to buy something unlike any motorhome he ever had, but he is trying to buy something that is intimidating. There are more buttons and switches and devices than I can count even with my socks off, and in some cases they don't make any sense to a person new to a Prevost.

When we bought our first bus, which was relatively new having been in use for less than 2 years, we had Don Hoffman (a converter) do a 100% inspection. While he and I went over the mechanical stuff, his wife Margaret went over the house stuff that Di would need to work and understand. They did not have a dog in the fight since it was a private sale so I knew they would be objective. It passed with flying colors as does most purchases.

When I bought the current coach I did not spend much more than an hour looking it over and poking around because I was trying stuff as I test drove it, there were no codes, and the interior had little discernable wear showing it had not been abused. This coach like the first was and has been trouble free. A fellow POG member owned it previously (Kim Sloan) and it has been really nice being able to hear its history.

So this first time is going to be tough. Your brain will be overloaded with information. You will not remember half of it. It will take forever to check stuff out because you don't even know what you don't know. But you do need to check it out. You will never regret doing that, but if you don't you may find yourself regreting that decision for as long as you own the coach.

[michaeldterry]

The first bus purchase is the hardest. A buyer not only is trying to buy something unlike any motorhome he ever had, but he is trying to buy something that is intimidating. There are more buttons and switches and devices than I can count even with my socks off, and in some cases they don't make any sense to a person new to a Prevost.



My current Prevost wasn't my first bus purchase, but it certainly was unlike anything I'd owned before (my previous bus was Barbara Mandrell's 1981 Eagle 10 Entertainer coach - which I also loved, being an Eagle aficionado - literally "grew up" on them as a young touring musician) and it was intimidating! Almost 7 months after purchase, we're still learning and finding systems and components on almost every trip that we know nothing about! But we simply adore our bus! It represents freedom to us and we never feel more free than when we're rolling down the road in her or relaxing under her awnings in a RV resort! We're continually amazed at the constant attention she attracts everywhere we go! We can't stop at so much as a red light without someone knocking on the door with a million questions about her (one frequent question is "which star are you carrying in there?"). She's certainly a conversation starter and we consistently meet the nicest people wherever we go who admire our "baby"! So far, we've been fortunate not to encounter any of the people that we've heard about who are jealous of Prevost owners or have negative reactions to our beautiful bus. That's probably because Vita, my wife, is the friendliest woman on earth and never meets a stranger! (Knowing her Father and Mother, I'm convinced that is a family trait.) I, on the other hand, have always been shy around people I don't know, so Vita is our spokesperson and social director (Thank God! I have a tendency to scare women and small children with my "rugged good looks" - i.e. ugly mug) There's nothing better than to have a beautiful woman with a ready smile and the gift of gab to "represent" me to the outside world! God - I love her even more than I love my bus! :o

[CFleck]

Thank you all for your comments. I just got off work and I am still high bidder on the bus. I don't have to tell you I am about to dirty my pants. This has been very stressful to me and my wife because of the unknown. I have bought cars, trucks,motorcycles,houses,streetrods,4 wheelers but I know all of that stuff.I fill like I just sat down at the card table with real good gamblers and they tell me don't worry kid we'll show you how to play.{HOW MUCH MONEY YOU GOT} If I am the high bidder maybe I can ask Joe if he would be my agent. I am not good with computers and I don't know how to reach him. If you guys can help me I would surely thank you..If he could call me or any of you guys could call me thst would be great..It takes me forever to type..thanks again, THE ROOKIE

[CFleck]

I guess it would help if I gave you my number, and you guys think I don't know what Iam doing, yea right, 814-771-2059 cell anytime Thanks again

[Jon Wehrenberg]

That's Erie PA area, somewhere I get near often as my daughter lives in Jamestown and I do animal rescue flights up there regularly.

If you get the bus we will be up around Sept. 1st in ours. We should try to get together.

[garyde]

Some other things to keep in mind; Has the Coach been in a flood , Fire or accident.
We've had several owner's who's coaches were declared totaled but then showed back up several months later with a new owners.
It's just a good idea to get some good history on the Coach.

[CFleck]

Well I was top bidder on the bus but I did a bad thing I told the owner I would have to pass. I filll bad because I did everything wrong. Joe called me and we had a very good discussion. I think I was putting the cart ahead of the horse. I am learning ,thanks to all of you, so my dear wife has told me no more ebay for me. She said there are alot of great people on P.O.G. and when we are ready to buy a bus they will help us through the process. I would like to thank all of you again, and a special thanks to Joe and Steve for calling me. Well,.I will say goodby now,I may not be saying anything but I will be listening. So you bus'em easy bus,em with pride you got the echo hes on the side were out of it by by..Sorry old CB days..

[lonesome george]

Charlie,
It may well be a blessing you did'nt end up with that bus.
It is easy to get caught up in the moment when you find one you like.
Post when you spot something interesting. POG will help you spend your money, it's great fun.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Don't give up. If you seriously want a coach I cannot ever remember there being a time like this when people were dumping coaches at prices we are seeing today.

This situation is going to turn around at some point and when it does the prices that are only a few dollars above theft will never be seen again.

This time however approach it logically. Decide what you want. Make sure you focus on the features you need, want, and would like. Set a budget and understand that the cheaper the price the older the coach, or the less well cared for. Once you have sharpened your focus start surfing the internet and seeing what is there. Along the way look at as many coaches as you can to get a sense of their floor plans (so the photos make sense) and to get an idea of the differences between converters.

When you have narrowed the field call up the folks on POG, especially any that are close to the coach you are looking at. I doubt if any of us mind looking at a coach and sending you detailed photos and opinions on what we see.

In the meantime join the conversations here and let us tell you how to spend your money. We are really good at doing that.

[phorner]

You are doing the right thing by allowing the POG members to guide you through the purchase process. There is an extraordinary amount of experience behind this collective group which is invaluable when considering a bus.

I know first hand, because I failed to take advantage of this experience prior to our purchase.

I love our Liberty, and it is the best suited bus that I've seen so far for us, but I would have been much better prepared to understand the costs that I was to eventually bear, or to negotiate a better deal, had I taken the opportunity to become better informed before I signed the deal. As Jon has said time and time again, "I didn't know what I didn't know." In reality, I got pretty lucky.

The good news is that there is the right bus out there for you, and purchase prices have never been better. Keep looking.

Good luck on your search..... and keep posting those questions, it's the only way to learn.

[Denny]

Don't give up on your dream for a Prevost, the right one is there waiting for you to discover it so don't give up. Going by your 814 area code, you are not too far from me. I live off I 80 in Ohio at the PA line. (As I write this I am at a campground in State College, PA.) If I can be of any help please call me at 330-550-6020.