Owner Financing

[Terry J. Sturgis]

I have been looking at a bus that an older gentleman has for sale. His last two lookers had trouble with bank financing. I was thinking that if my co-pilot likes the bus I would offer to buy if he would carry the paper.
Question is after researching the net I do not see any sales forms that apply to RV financing. I am thinking I would have to have an attorney draw up the contract. I appreciate any advice from those that have been there, etc. THANKS!

[tdelorme]

You should be able to find something on this site that will work.
http://www.free-legal-document.com/free-automobile-bill-of-sale.html

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I see two issues regarding private financing. Each of you need protection.

As a seller I would have serious concerns that my security (the bus) is being well maintained so if I had to repossess it I would not end up with a bus that has been trashed. I would probably ask for additional security, I would certainly demand copies of the borrower's tax returns and a list of his assets and liabilities (just like a bank does) along with being a named insured. I would want additional security such that the buyer will never consider walking away from the deal.

From the buyer's side I would insist on some assurance the title will transfer to me as soon as my obligations have been met, possibly placing the title in escrow. I can see all sorts of problems such as the seller passing away and the estate (greedy kids) screwing the buyer to boost their inheritance. That would be especially true if the buyer put a lot of money in the coach refurbishing it.

Both parties are at risk here.

[garyde]

To add to Jon's thoughts, if I were selling my Coach I would want the buyer to have a substantial amount paid for a down payment. 25-30 percent.
Also, a copy of Insurance naming the seller as additionally insured and a requirement in the contract as such.
The Pink slip would still have the seller as Lein Holder on the Coach as well until the Coach is paid in full.

[Petervs]

Well my opinion is that as a seller I would want a substantial down payment too, like 100%!

50% would be the bare minimum. Look at what has happened to coach values over the last year or so, the values have dropped by half, and as the lender, you do not want your borrower to be upside down.

Better yet, do not buy a toy until you can pay cash for it.

[Terry J. Sturgis]

As I posted, the best way to protect all parties is to have an attorney draft the contract to the benefit of both seller and buyer.
I do have several toys that I paid cash for, Harley Road King Classic, 1969 Z-28 Camaro, 30 foot enclosed trailer, etc.
790 credit rating, substantial retirement income, house paid off, very little debt and 20% down. Banks will only finance 2000 or newer. I do know what my budget can handle therefore that is why I have been looking at mid 90's busses.
I am open to suggestions as to how one would go about financing a used Prevost bus or should I give up the dream and buy a plastic bus. Thanks!

[phorner]

Terry,

I wouldn't give up on that dream just yet.....

Like everything else, you just need to balance risk versus benefit in this transaction, if you decide on private financing. I'm sure that in many cases this type of arrangement has worked out satisfactorily, and I'm just as sure that there have been some nightmares.

All you can do is the best you can. Life is too short not to take a reasonable risk once in a while. If your attorney can make you comfortable with the arrangements, and you are convinced that the necessary protections are in place, then what more can you do?

It all depends on what you are comfortable with.

Good luck..... I hope it all works out for you.

After all, you'll have the keys to the bus and you can always turn it into a hacienda in Mexico :D

[sawdust_128]

you stated:

"I do have several toys that I paid cash for, Harley Road King Classic, 1969 Z-28 Camaro, 30 foot enclosed trailer, etc. 790 credit rating, substantial retirement income, house paid off, very little debt and 20% down."

Based on that, it would seem to me that you have numerous options for financing. What you seem to be lacking is a good finance/tax guy for consultation.

I am not purposefully slighting any of my fellow POGers and I admit freely to my own guilt, but if you want advice on polishing the slack adjuster, tire pressure, weight distributions, Aqua hot maintenance, sources for widgets and bulbs, even coordination to find things to do with the coach, especially eating and ball busting, etc. by all means come here and ask away. However, you need to remember that all the folks here put out good money, really good money, maybe too much good money for one of these fine "INVESTMENTS". Yep, believe it or not, as small as the moment might be, as fast fleeting as it might be, the word INVESTMENT has been used by nearly all here in relation to their, or a fellow POGer's coach.

Do you know the joke about the guy who found three woman as candidates to marry? He gave them each $10k. In six months he checked back to see what they did with it. The first successfully invested it and made a lot of money. The second bought real estate that suddenly appreciated into a fortune. The third made herself over to be perfect for him in every way. Which one did he marry? None, he found another one with big boobs.

It's the same thing with these coaches, otherwise refered to as a "BIG BOOTIFOOL BUS" (note the derivative FOOL in there). That description more often than not is uttered, breathlessly, just before a large check bearing your signature arrives in the hand of the seller.

To reinforce my point, there are even the select few who grace this forum with their presence that have done this several times and have multiple pink slips to prove it. But admit to no memory of the event and stick to that story when telling their wives.

Good Luck to you fella!!

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Terry,

As a buyer it is not your job to protect the seller. You determine what you need for protection and how you want to buy the bus and then do it.

But be aware of a few things. Older buses no matter how clean, how well maintained, no matter how they are represented need more maintenance than newer buses. If you are capable and willing you can literally put your new-to-you bus in new condition mechanically so it will be virtually trouble free and somewhat inexpensive to maintain from that point forward. If you wait for things to become issues before you react then you will spend some serious money maintaining the coach. make sure your budget allows for this.

As soon as you buy the coach, no matter how well you think you negotiated price, you will likely find it is worth less in a resale. These depreciate, so anticipate that and as Ed wisely said never use the word investment. The good news is the older the bus or the lower the purchase price, the less it depreciates.

Once you get one expect it to outlast you. Seriously, unless you plan on putting a whole lot of miles on the coach year after year after year you will not wear it out. The key to this piece of knowledge is to get one that is right for you, not because it is cheap or because the owner will finance it. It is hard owning a bus you come to dislike.

You will never enjoy anything as much as a Prevost because of the friends you make when you own one.

[garyde]

Sail Boats, Yachts, RV's all fall in the same category: Toys.
Buying is the first and last chance you will have in getting a good deal. After that, forget about it.

[0533]

I thought we had a finance broker sponsor (POG Member) from the Tampa Florida area that said he could finance buses older than 10 years old??

PS, I think the cutoff is 10 years, this is 2009, so would not a 1999 qualify??

As for seller financing, make sure that the seller has clear title to the bus. You could buy the bus, place a 20% down payment thinking that you now have made a purchase of your dream. The seller has a first mortgage does not pay and the bus gets reposed by the first lender.

I would want to make sure the bus is AAA shape, the terms are at or near market rates, the bus has a clear title, make sure that the title you get has a UCC filing on it that will create a way to secure your interest in the asset.

In your rush to own a bus make sure that your interest is secure first.

PS> Sitting on 533 in Checotah OK at the KOA off I-40, heading to the Custer.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

The finance person Bruce was talking about is:

Tom Spirito http://www.gcmfinance.com (727) 578-5035 x 201
Gulf Coast Marine Finance

Gary S.