Liberty Generator Fan Blower, Intermittent

[MangoMike]

On the Liberty there is a squirrel cage fan motor behind the radiator for the generator. If this is cycling on and off (as mine was doing in OSH) during generator operation then it's time to take a peek under the bus. There's a really good chance that the baffle is missing. This baffle directs the hot air away from the intake side of the generators radiator, causing the blower motor to overheat and shut down for a limited time.

A new baffle is available from Liberty for a mere $350 Lewbucks.

Mike

[truk4u]

Mango,
My fan cycles on and off as needed and is normal. It's possible that my setup is different, better being a Marathon, but it's designed to cycle based on temperature, kinda of like the radiator fan.:D

[MangoMike]

Tom,

That made sense to me and I kept on telling Jon that, but I stopped at the Liberty factory while leaving OSH and they confirmed the overheating issue as related to the missing baffle.

I hate it when Jon's always right. Jeez.

Mike

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Actually hit man Frank spelled out exactly what mango's problem was. Mango, send your fax number and I will send a sketch of the baffle. I have Wendi quoting it for me.

[Just Plain Jeff]

Jon was dead wrong.

Hitman Frank was wrong.

I was right.

Buy a new bus.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Tom, I think your post raises a good topic for general discussion if you are willing. We often talk about everybody's leveling systems being different depending on converters, but we actually need our generators much more than we need good leveling systems, yet there is little discussion of them.

Your post about your generator fan cycling makes me wonder what is the correct operating characteristics of our generators?

I'll outline what I think is correct for a Liberty, and perhaps you can share along with others what is correct for your respective converters.

On both my 1987 and 1997 Liberty the generators were located ahead of the driver side drive axle. The radiator and cooling fan was located on the same side in the second bay. Between the two coaches there were differences. On both coaches the radiator cooling fan was powered by 120V output from the generator and was protected by circuit breakers in a box to the LH of the radiator. The 1987 had in addition a 120V water circulating pump located in front of the radiator. It was also powered off the generator and was protected by a circuit breaker. The 1987 generator had a Kubota engine and the 1997 has a Yanmar. The 1987 used house battery power to start, and the 1997 has its own dedcated battery. Both gensets were supported on small airbags inflated off the auxiliarry air circuits.

The generator boxes were ventilated by small fans (I think).

Both had an opening in the floor in front of the radiator for cooling air and hot air from the radiator fan was exhausted from the bottom of the coach just behind the radiator. The hot air passed through a steel baffle that directed the flow of air towards the rear of the coach. In that way the air coming into the radiator was ambient air, and by directing the hot air rearward, the cruise air(s) that were mounted in the center of the coach belly were not drawing in heated generator air into the condensing units.

When Mango talks about his radiator fan motor cycling on and off, what was actually happening because of his missing baffle was his radiator was having heated air drawn across it and the fan motor, and the fan motor was cycling on its internal over temperature safety switch.

I know Tom's generator is located in a forward bay, but I don't know if the always "on" radiator fan such as in our Libertys is typical or if other converters cycle their fans.

[truk4u]

Jon,
Good idea, sounds like each converter kind of does something different. Here's the deal on my Marathon to the best of my knowledge:

Mine is a 20KW Powertec with a 4 cylinder Kubota engine. The gen is located in the first bay, port side. The gen has it's own dedicated 27T batteries hooked in parallel and located on the opposite side with the house batteries. The gen batteries have a factory solar panel for charging. I assume the gen and batteries located on the opposing sides are for balance and front axle weights confirm that.

The gen is in an insulated compartment with 4 air bags (manual fill) and of course a slide out. The radiator is located in the center of the bus with two large air grills underneath and a squirrel cage type fan. The fan not only cools the radiator, but also pulls air from the gen compartment through a grill and pulls air out of the battery compartment through a grill. Seems like a dual purpose arrangement to keep hot air moving outbound. There is a seperate 120v circuit breaker for the radiator fan.

The fan cycles on/off as needed based on temperature. There may be a lower fan speed that I can't hear and high speed as needed. I'll ask that question at the Marathon Rally starting today in NC. I did ask about the fan cycling, and that was the way it was intended to operate, just like a radiator fan. I do not see any change in the gen coolant temps as the fan cycles, it stays about 160.

I'll post more info as I get answers.:cool:

[rfoster]

Mango: Stopping by the factory, That has got to give a guy Chronic MPD!:cool:

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I don't think that is as bad as going to Stuart or to a converter rally.

At the factory you see buses in pieces. Ugly, complex, not finished, lots of people trying to put pieces together and having a hard time doing that. That tends to be scary unless you arrive just when they roll a recently completed coach out the door.

At rallies and the sales center the buses are all pretty, assembled, and with the slides extended and just waiting for your name on the title. That is a dangerous place to be especially when you have some things wrong. I think Mike has decided that instead of spending $350 for a new baffle and $1500 for a new Watchdog he will just buy a new two slide Elegant Lady.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

This is a blatant sales pitch.

Mike lost his baffle for his generator. Liberty will sell him a new one for $360.

If there are any Liberty owners who have damaged their baffles, or lost the baffle, I have gotten a price from my old shop. For a new, unpainted baffle assembly the cost will be $100. If you want it powder coated black or gray (no choice, it will have to be whatever color is runnning)the cost will be $125. Costs do not include UPS charges.

Some drilling may be required because on my coach it seemed like the holes were drilled and may vary from coach to coach.

I will post a similar message on the Prevost Stuff site.

This baffle will prevent some of the problems Mike is now experiencing.

I am not making any money on this, but if that makes anybody feel bad you may make a large contribution to the King of Bling LED fund.

[MangoMike]

Jon,

Sounds like a good deal.

Here's another example of the importance of the baffle. Just returned from my sojourn w/ Ken & Ellen in Cape Hatteras. About 92+ degrees in DC. Started up the genset when I landed at home only to have the rear Cruise Air (which intake is by the missing baffle) cut off with the code HI PS in the control panel. The baffle provides a very strong service in removing hot gen air.

Mike

[MangoMike]

Liberty owners. Eventually you'll be needing one of these generator fan baffles.

Jon's company (Jamestown now effeciently run by his daughter Wendi) custom made this one for me at a 1/3 of the price wanted by Liberty. Great job and powder coated for max bling effect. Constructed to Jon's anal tolerances and fit tighter than OJ's glove.

183

184

185

[rfoster]

Mango: Man - I am impressed with the new parts. Please Park your Liberty on dry ground and Leave the air bags pumped up and so I can slide under while in Santa Fe. Mine is showing a little experience, but I would probably be willing to trade even and I would offer to remove it myself sometime after midnight. Stuff goes on sale at my place at that time of day, self serve, no sales tax, no salesman, no paperwork, can't be the price either.

Jons daughter sure did a fine job! Maybe we could get them to expand into LEDs and TVs.

[MangoMike]

Fast Roger,

Always glad to share.

What hot car are you towing to SF?

Mangoman

[rfoster]

Mango: Haven't got a hot car lined up to tow yet. Towed a Tahoe last time we went on a Family outing, but sold it, I have two on hand now so may wind up towing a Tahoe again since I have the tow brackets for it and they are nice driving SUVS. No more dollies for long trips for me. I like the four down towing- makes life simplier when you arrive at a limited space campground. -just less hassle.

Is it about time for a younger Mangonette to aquire a motorized vehicle?
I have been saving a BMW for Jon- just waiting on the check to come in the mail-- But it might have gone to Newell, or Thompson, or Liberty or someplace like that - heck, some airplane guy might have gotten it!:cool:

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Don't wait for that check. I just spent my last few dollars on a new hangar for my baby Cessna. I'm broke and waiting for that free M3.

[truk4u]

Wow, I'm impressed! A 10 ton hydraulic jack holding up the new gen part, when Jon's family makes something, THEY REALLY MAKE IT!:D

Hey Kevin & Lew, check it out, here's something we Marathon owners don't have to worry about!:eek:

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

I would'nt be surprised if Mango got Jon's old cover all painted up and Jon had a polishes stainless or anodized aluminum cover made for himself.
Jim

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I wish I had thought of that before I took the time to beat my old one back into shape and put a cheap coat of black paint on it.

Before I made my blacksmith quality repairs mine looked like Roger's. Now it almost looks like Roger's.

[Jerry Winchester]

Wish I could tell how far that thing hangs down under the Mothership. Looks like another Jimmy Buffet accident looking for a place to happen...

After re-reading this post, there is an item Mike mentioned that slipped by me. I was scheduled to install new SMX controls in the coach for the Cruisairs, but an unplanned trip put that on hold.

After more than a year of running the AC's on this coach without the benefit of a readout that will tell you if you have HI PSI or LOW VOLT or any of the other issues that will cause a Cruisair to take a siesta, if you have intermittant Cruisair problems, it is most likely not the compressor or low refrigerant or the more common things one considers when the cool air goes away. When I figured out that when I run all three Cruisair units, the electric heating element in the AquaHot, multiple lights, the aux air compressor, fridge, TV, SAT, inverter charger, etc, the rear Cruisair compressor shuts down every time. I didn't have an AC problem, I had a power consumption / load sharing problem. Mike didn't have an AC problem, he had a heat transfer problem that turned into a HI PSI problem that eventually shut the unit down.

Question is, will he try to enter that new baffle in the bling contest and if so, will Jon want partial credit?

[MangoMike]

Question is, will he try to enter that new baffle in the bling contest and if so, will Jon want partial credit?

All I can say is that if a new baffle can win the Bling Prize, it'll be a sad collection of busses at POG II.

BlinglessMango

[Joe Cannarozzi]

I tend to agree with Jerry. Too low for the proximity. Only a matter of time till ya hook it again. Ours was also crunched when we got it. I replaced it by cutting a stay put mud flap to size, bending it into a semicircle and attaching it with a couple of pieces of angle iron. A second piece of flap was cut in a semi circle to close off the front. Works like a charm and Its flexible, comes right back to shape when you catch it on anything.

[MangoMike]

Joe,

According to Liberty other customers have tried the flex rubber approach with no luck and went back to the metal baffle. Keep in mind they wanted to sell me a $350 baffle.

Mike

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Im curious what exactly was the flaw?

[MangoMike]

Joe,
Not moving enough air away from the Genset Radiator Intake and the bay mounted cruise air intake for the rear unit.

MM

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Although I would like to see my gen. run a little cooler, it runs 185 and I think thats normal. My closest Cruse air isint close at all. I love it when things happen like that!:eek:

[lewpopp]

As I was running the road today my coolant temp was about 180-185. My oil temp was 210-215. Another oil guage ( which I think is the differential ) read over 225. I was told to ignore the differential guage because they have a contant tendency to send the wrong info. I wish I had read the temp there when my rear end siezed last January.

What should the oil temp run?

Did I mention that I rebuilt the microphor air system and it works like a charm and no where as noisey.:D

[lewpopp]

Another thing I wanted to mention. This has been this was since day one. When I turn slowly to approach a turn the coach gives me a feeling of being top heavy and it has the leans.. I had larger air bags installed on the front so thats not it.

Jon, maybe I should put another tool box full of heavy tools in the underbay, huh?

All kidding aside, would front shocks do that? Mine aren't too old.

Otherwise, the coach rode smoothly today and took us further than we had intended because of the pleasure. Wish I had the energy and $$ to travel to SF but I am going to Florida to stay away from frosty mornings and I am sure you are in for some at SF.. With the elevation, you may have snow. Takie a picture fo the snowball fight. Practice your throws, don't throw like girls.

[Jerry Winchester]

Fast Roger Says "Be There" See it's an omen...

192

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Lew,

With an 8V92 I think your coolant temperatures are where they need to be. The oil temperature you cite is likley the transmission temperature and since you have the five speed Allison I am guessing there is something wrong. I don't think you have a retarder, and have a Jake brake so your transmission temperature should match your engine temperature.

I would first check the fluid level and condition. It should be a pinkish red and not have a burnt smell. It should be at the correct level. If it is overfilled, by as little as a quart or two the potential for foaming and higher temperatures exists. Whatever it is, it needs immediate attention because the enemy of your transmission is heat.

As far as the differential temperature maybe someone else can jump in and define what the normal range is. I can't help you there.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Lew,

Have Kathy follow you in the car to see if the coach leans like you feel it is. The ride height valves (not the Norgren leveling valves) control the air pressure in the air bags, and if your coach leans excessively and is slow to straighten up the problem could be in the valves which have a built in delay. The delay limits how fast they respond so the coach actually has to lean a little and for a short period of time before they add or dump air to straighten the coach back up. Some leaning is normal.

If you want to see if the coach leans yourself, ask Winchester to get in your coach and walk side to side. That will show the same thing.

Cmon to SF. it's only money.

[Jerry Winchester]

Lew,

Jon is correct here. Come to Santa Fe, Jon will drive your coach whilst I run side to side and you follow in the Lewster Toad. If we can tip it over, have the wrecker haul it to Prevost; if it stays upright, then all is well.

And the trip will cost you 40% less that it would have last month. It's like getting to Arkansas for free. And you can meet Mike and I in Oklahoma City where we can smoke by Roger and the Anal Vortex somewhere along I-40.

194

[Chris and Debbie Yates]

Hey Jerry,
If you and Mike are planning to cut a huge hole in the air all the way down I40 that sounds like an opportunity for me to save a fortune on fuel if I can get in your draft!
When are you pulling out of OKC?

Chris

[Jerry Winchester]

We have a weird schedule. Mike is going to be in Kansas City, Rae and I are going to the football game in Manhattan, KS on Saturday, so we are going to meet in Stillwater on Sunday, so we will leave out of there and be thru OKC Monday on our way to overnight in Amarillo.

We leave there Tuesday morning and will dry camp at the balloon campground on Tuesday then on to Santa Fe on Wednesday morning to check it and secure the perimeter and set out all the gear for bling warfare.

We can coordinate a rendezvous with you in OKC, but we won't be the guys doing 62.5mph. We would be way happy to have you along and you are welcome to hang out at the balloon deal Tuesday night. We are only there to harass Tom (truk4u) and seine up Mike's wife, MangoDonna, from the airport. If we can get Jon and Roger to leave Tennessee on say, Friday or Saturday, they might make it to Amarillo by Monday evening and we can have a pre-Rally dinner there.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Roger,

There might be merit in what size 63 says. I can use some of that hot air to propel my coach and possibly get it up to 64.23 MPH.

For those that want to follow the best Fast Roger and I will overnight Sunday in Brinkley AR, El Reno OK on Moday, and Santa Rosa NM on Tuesday.

[Chris and Debbie Yates]

We will be racing in Hallett OK, leaving Sunday evening, so we would like to hookup (thanks for the invitation.) Just say where and when, we will be there.
I can't stay awake at 62.5 mph so crank it up.
Any reservations required for Amarillo or dry camping at the balloon festival?

Chris

[Jon Wehrenberg]

My pal Roger (who is giving me a BMW M3) will probably set the pace. I think he has to drive from campground to campground before his air bags deflate. We have reservations in campgrounds at each location, and I know for sure there are no spaces available at Santa Rosa because of the balloon festival.

Speedy V tailed driver JDUB and his sidekick baffle boy Mango may have flexible arrangements and they may also crank up the speed now that diesel fuel is less per gallon than mixed drinks at Mango's.

[Jerry Winchester]

Chris,

Then this will be too easy. Just come from Hallett to Stillwater on Sunday and we can go from there on Monday. Send me an e-mail and we can work it out.

JW

jwinchester@boots-coots.com

or

jdub@jondontknowshitaboutbling.com

[MangoMike]

Chris,

According to the folks at the Balloon festival there is no problem camping on Tuesday night at their dry camp location, which I undertstand is just a shuttle bus ride away from the launch area. The fancy shmancy VIP area Truk4u is camped at is full - although if Tom gave up his portable tennis court next to his bus we could probably fit in.

My only committment is to be able to pick up my sweetie at the Alb. airport at 3pm.

Love to have you join us as Jerry and I can draft you to save some Lewbucks in fuel.

Mike

or email me at: GoodlookingMango@FastRogeraintsofastafterall.Pog

[Jerry Winchester]

You are GoodLookingMango with that avatar. Or is it just me? No Pun.

[Chris and Debbie Yates]

MM
Looking forward to meeting you and Jerry (I think.)
I was under the impression that as a newbie I would not have the honor of leading and as such be the one drafting and saving the Lewbucks on fuel.

Chris

[truk4u]

Chris,
Come on to the balloon fest. If I mention Jon's name, your in with no problem.
You don't want to travel with those two weenies anyway, they'll wait till dark to travel just to see their LED's in the mirrors.:D

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Chris, heed Dr.Tom's advice. You don't want to run with Batman and Robin. You are de-blinging your coach and those two have been working for months buying every LED on the market to try to blind anyone within the range allowed by the curvature of the earth.

I was pleased to see your definition of bling post on the other thread.

The fact that I haven't done anything to my coach proves my original intention that my blingless but pristine coach is infact the winner. I may not even show up. Send me the award via FedEx.

[Jerry Winchester]

Chris,

You already know that crowd. They eat the Lu Ann special at Luby's every day at 4:00pm, drive 62.5 in the fast lane with their blinkers on for miles, stop to squeeze the sponge every 45 minutes and they drink lots of water before they go to bed so they have something to do when they wake up at night.

They're worriers; bed wetters; hand wringers. They have that mood lighting in their coach because the Viagra makes their eyes sensitive to light.

Just say no. They will have you sitting around the fire comparing blood sugar readings.........

[Chris and Debbie Yates]

Debbie thought that the mood lighting and Viagra option sounded pretty good, but after a great deal of thought she says she can't pass up the opportunity to see Batman and Robin in their masks and tights!

Chris

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Well here's one of them....

[MangoMike]

Well I can tell by the eyes - must be Jerry.

MM

[Chris and Debbie Yates]

Lew,I had the coach into Inland truck service 2 or 3 weeks ago for the same reason. The tranny temp on the dail was showing 40 degrees higher than the engine temp. We have the same settup 8v92 with 5 speed Allison. They went through their diagnostics and told me that the gauge was reading high and unless I got a warning light not to worry. Inland is the authorised service center for Allison in Dallas and they seemed to know what they were talking about.

Chris.

[lewpopp]

Thanks Chris....I had reason to believe that was the answer but to have someone as brave as you to give me time on something important rather than the ratchet mouths who are heading for SF.

The only thing that appeals to me is the 62.5 MPH. Althought I travel at 63 MPH, I could slow up a bit as not to lose the anal one.

Thanks again Chris

Lew

[Chris and Debbie Yates]

Lew, it sounds like you are weakening on making the SF trip.... come on!
What's this brave stuff? When I travel with the dynamic duo I just have to remember the old Latin expression "Nil iligitimes carborundum" (don't let the ba****ds grind you down.)

Chris

[Jon Wehrenberg]

My concern is the influence the cook and his busboy will have on Chris and Debbie.

With just the two of them they seem to sprout new ideas, and now they will have the benefit of fresh thinking. This could get a little scary.

Or this could just be a little harmless socializing involving the use of tools to repair one of their coaches. You are good with tools, are you not Chris?

[Chris and Debbie Yates]

Jon, I am coming to SF to sit at the feet of the Anal One to learn what to do with all those tools. Until I acquire this valuable knowledge the service departments at Buddy Greg, Prevost Dallas and Inland Truck service will still be working overtime.

Grasshopper.

[Jerry Winchester]

Or for the non Latin speakers, "The anal one is not the source of all knowledge."

Don't patronize him Chris or his head won't fit thru the coach door. I've said it before, you run with the Geritol crowd and before long you'll be sitting in front of the computer in your underwear talking to yourself. Lew, does that sound faintly familiar?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I'll have you know I am sitting here and I have no underwear.

[lewpopp]

This reply will shake up the Poggers

You come up with the latin and it reminds me of my education in the seminary. Yes, I said seminary. I use to know a lot of sayings and could bring them up on a moments notice, but no longer.

I guess the jokers will be arriving "bene-bene" in SF and hopefully safe.

It's not a case of bravery, I had my fill of ballon fests and Albequerque over the years. I was coming thru "A" and it started snowing like hell the first part of March. The elevation is so damn high for the whole state brings the cold air sooner and stays later.

Have fun if you're going.

Lew

[Richard Barnes]

Mango,

How can I get one of these baffles? Mine was seriously damaged yesterday when I ran over a piece of disintegrated truck tread. The rear ac shut down with the P5 high pressure reading and the gen blower stopped about 10 minutes later.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Richard,

Jamestown Advanced made the baffle for Mike. Contact my daughter at wlodestro@jamestownadvanced.com

She will pass it on to engineering and respond to you.

[gmcbuffalo]

I can see that JA made baffle is really well made, but has anyone gone to a local sheet metal shop or HVAC shop to see if they can be made locally for under a 100 bucks.