Balance Masters vs Centramatic

[LarryB]

This likely falls into the category of the old 'Ford vs Chev' debate but, is there a consensuses on which product is better, Centramatic or Balance Masters?

Thanks,

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I think the answers are going to have to be considered opinions because I doubt if anyone has ever run side by side tests and actually been able to document the results.

I think one relies upon a number of balls which are free to position themselves around the perimeter of the product, the other using a heavy substance like Mercury to accomplish the same thing.

If I were to want to buy a set I would probably lean towards the one with mrecury since it seems to be able to work without abrading the inside of the race as the balls will do, and because it will go about its job silently.

There are other alternatives much less expensive.

[LarryB]

Jon, what are the 'alternatives' ?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

There are products such as Equal which are added to the inside of a tire. The economics are simple. A set of balancers costs about $180. Equal or its equivalent costs about $10 per tire or $20 per set.

You would have to go through nine sets of tires before you broke even if you opted to use the balancers.

The complaint about products like Equal is they get in the valve stem and then the tire leaks air. The valves with mesh screens are supplied with Equal. The mesh screens work and I have used Equal for about 15 years with no issues. But there are alternatives to Equal. Some use balls that stay inside the tire and have no impact on the valves. An internet search should turn up all the alternatives.

The last option is the lead weights. I have used them and within a few thousand miles my tires were out of balance. Jim Keller posted that he was shown that his tires actually spin on the wheel so the use of lead weights is negated with one hard stop. He posted that on the forum. If interested do a search to read his experience.

[truk4u]

I have the Balance Masters thanks to Brian and they are smoooooottthhhhh!

[LarryB]

Thanks Jon, I have read about Equal and have also heard comments as to caking, [back to the N2 in the tires debate]and also, harming tire monitor systems. Glad you have had good results.

Tom, thanks for the reply.

[BrianE]

Larry, I did a fair amount of research before deciding on the Balance Masters for Tom's bus. Would buy them again in a minute. Fixed weights essentially balance at one speed and only if the tires don't slip on the rims. Centramatics are more popular than BM's mainly because they have been around much longer and are popular with the truckers. I didn't like Equal because of the valve leak possibilities and because it isn't recommended for use with valve stem tire monitors. Would think the internal ball option might be worth investigating if there is a significant cost savings. Decisions, decisions, what's a girl to do???? :o

[dale farley]

Larry,

You may want to look at this product. http://ktbproducts.com/_wsn/page3.html It is a liquid balancer, and does not bother valves or tire pressure monitors. I have been running it in my steers for a year now, and everything seems fine. You can add this through the valve stem without having to remove the tires.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Fascinating, except there is not a single way I could find to locate a dealer or order the stuff, nor could I find any pricing.

Did I read it right that 70 ounces is required for 315 size tires? That's more than 1/2 gallon.

[dale farley]

Jon,

It comes straight from the manufacturer. Under "Contact Information"

William (Bill) Brunelli: 813-843-7420
President/Owner
Brian/Dennis: 888-818-2803
Fax: 813-891-6136

I talked directly to Bill Brunelli. My 315 tires require a 32 oz bottle in each one. You may be looking at the Tire Sealer? There are 3 different products advertised on the page.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Fascinating, except there is not a single way I could find to locate a dealer or order the stuff, nor could I find any pricing.
Did I read it right that 70 ounces is required for 315 size tires? That's more than 1/2 gallon.

Jon, I think the product you saw that needed 70 ozs to work with our tires was for a different purpose ? KTB Tire Sealant

I think the KTB Liquid Tire Balance product at the top of the page stated it only needed 1 Bottle (32ozs) per tire for 22.5" rims? :confused: :) SORRY Dale posted faster than I could.

Gary S.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

How much??????????????

[LarryB]

Brian, thanks for the info, I have Smart Tire installed on the coach and toad, and was leary of the Equal fouling up the sensors.

Dale, thanks. You obviously have had no problem with the interaction of the liquid and your Smart Tire sensors.

[dale farley]

Larry, I installed the tire sensors at the same time I installed the liquid balancer, and I have not had a problem.

Jon, The balancer is $25 for a 32 oz bottle.

[GDeen]

Off topic - I am having way too much fun learning about all this - great stuff!!! Jennifer is positive I have gone off the deep end:cool:

[Bill1170]

This has been very interesting to me since I have a slight vibration at 64 mph and I had my tires balanced using lead weights. All this is new to me. Will one of you knowledgeable fellows explain more how the different systems work ane the cost of each. Any info will be appreciated. Bill C

[dale farley]

Bill,

I'm no expert on the subject, but I can start by giving you a little about some of the different balance methods.

Wheel Weights- Probably the cheapest of all in the short-run, and they work well as long as they are done right and stay in place. Jim Keller has noticed/proven that the tires on our buses are subject to slipping around the rim during hard braking. When this happens, the lead weights are no longer effective. If you lose one, they are no longer effective.

Balance Masters/Centramatic rings: These are the most expensive to install, but can be moved to other buses you might own. The best price I have been quoted was $192 for a pair. It will take 3 pair for all three axles. They mount behind the wheel and mercury travels inside the ring to maintain balance with the Balance Masters. On the Centramatics, shot sized balancing weights are inside the balancing tube lubricated by a synthetic moly oil. http://www.balancemasters.com/howtheywork.html or www.centramatic.com (http://www.centramatic.com)

Equal Tire Balancer: Polymer granules that rotate inside the tires and balance the tires. Probably the cheapest of the balancing techniques other than lead weights. Normally installed by dropping the bag of granules inside the tire during mounting. May also be injected through the valve stem by the installer for about $6 per tire (requires special equipment). Been on the market for many years and used successful by many customers. Equal has been known to clot in isolated instances if moisture gets in the tire. Also may impact the operation of tire sensors by stopping up the valve stem. Cost is usualy significantly less than $25 per tire. http://www.imiproducts.com/equal/tire-balancer.aspx

Tech Plus: Works the same way Equal does, but it is small balls instead of granules. Comes with filtered valve stems to prevent clogging valve stems and hindering tire monitor operation. My local shop charges $25 per tire. Must be installed when mounting the tire. Cannot be injected through the valve stem. Not supposed to clog/clot because of moisture.

KTB Liquid: A liquid that balances the tire as it rotates and eliminates/prevents rust on rims. Can be injected through the valve stem by the customer with a tube that comes with the product. Does not hinder operation of tire monitors. Takes a quart for a 22.5 inch wheel. Cost is $25 per wheel. www.ktbproducts.com (http://www.ktbproducts.com)

There are other similar products that do the same as the ones above. The only experience I have is with the KTB liquid.

[rfoster]

:cool:A Plus Dale,


you did an outstanding job of explaning it. Even I understand it.

Good Job.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

I agree that should be in the articles

[Jim Skiff]

Dale's contribution to the articles section can be found here:

http://www.prevostownersgroup.com/public/index.cfm?fuseaction=articles.view&id=7184&publicationtype=Articles

Thanks Dale and thank you Jor for the suggestion.

[Bill1170]

Dale: Thanks for the great explanation that sure helps me understand the different balancing methods,Now all I have to do is decide which is good for me. Sounds like you are having good luck with the less expensive sutff in the tire. Thank again, Bill

[JIM KELLER]

Great job on that Article, Dale.

[mikedee]

I have been the biggest little Equal hater on the board, but have a new opinion on the product. I found some better valve cores and double seal caps and have zero issue with the equal fouling up my valves and losing air.

Whole fix was about $25 including a really nice valve core tool so I would get them tight.
http://www.innovativebalancing.com/gallery1.htm
Scroll to bottom of page, I got items COR-01, V2B-1, VCT-1

Equal works good, Centramatic work good and I bet some of the others work as well.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Every time I have bought and used Equal it has come with new valve cores with the mesh filters. I have always used them.

I think there are two reasons why I have had no problems with the use of Equal. First, the way I check my tire pressures is with the use of a fill valve with the pressure gauge attached. After reading the pressure I give the tire a quick shot of air. If any material had gotten past the screen into the valve the quick blast of air blew it out of the valve core.

The second thing I have done is used the "fill through cap" valve stem caps. These valve stem caps do not have to be removed when checking tire pressures or filling with air. In addition they are a second seal so even if the valve core were to leak the caps seal against air loss.

Two types of tire fill valves are shown in the photo below. I use the one with the big round dial most often. BTW, that eliminates the need for any valve stem extensions which will ultimately cause a failure of the valve stem.

[dale farley]

Jon,

Have you ever had an issue with moisture clotting the Equal? I've never seen this happen first-hand, but I've heard others say it was a problem. Obviously, you can't always ensure that you have moisture free air when adding to the tires, so maybe it isn't as much an issue as some feel it is?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Dale,

I have had zero issues with moisture in the tire. I don't do anything special to prevent moisture. I have filled the tires from the bus air system and from my compressor in the garage.

I can say with certainty no problems because not too long ago I had a leak at the seal where the valve stem goes into the wheel.

I had to open the tire up to get a wrench on the rear side of the valve stem and in doing that I noticed the inside of the tire was dry.

[dale farley]

Jon,

Your comments make me think it must really take a significant amount of water to cause any problems.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Except for the initial fill my tires just don't get a lot of air added.

I attribute that to the double seal the caps provide.

I have the normal loss of pressure in the winter when things get cold, but that is a few PSI.

If I have to adjust tire pressures after the bus sits for a month or more it is usually 3 PSI or less. If I see a need for more pressure I search for the cause and that is how I realized I had a minute air loss at the valve stem and wheel.

If I had noticed moisture it would not be a big deal to switch from air to nitrogen or argon or some other moisture free gas because I have small welding bottles I could rig up for the tires or bus air system. It would certainly be faster to fill tires using nitrogen or equivalent because with the right hoses it could be set up to regulate the pressure for filling to 200 or 300 PSI so putting a few PSI in a tire that is at 100 PSI would be fast. It would also clear any small debri from the Schrader valve if there were any.

Not intended to start the nitrogen debate. Speaking hypothetically here,.

[Petervs]

I am amazed at the fanatical following so many of you have or these products. Tires slipping on the rim with heavy braking? You must be kidding me. If that happened you would lose the air.

If the tires are slipping on the wheels, why is this not happening to all the other vehicles on the road that get by with simple balance weights?

And you say lead weights are only in correct balance at one speed. Well, the solutions presented here are completely INcorrect while stopped, and will not be perfectly correct until you get the wheel spining pretty fast. And they will be off balance while spinning up.

At 60 MPH the tires are turning only 500 RPM which might not be enough to spread the weights out perfectly and achieve good balance. What evidence do you have that the tires are perfectly balanced while driving? The manufacturers claims? It feels good to your butt? Very scientific.

Like Jon said, no one has done a side by side test for a real comparison. All I can say is I use lead weights, the bus rides smooth as silk. There are more important problems to solve.