Florida Trip - Bus Shoppin... [Archive] - Prevost Owners Group Forum

GDeen

04-15-2009, 07:44 PM

All the info is much appreciated....

Appointment set with Millenium - thanks for the reminder Gary.

Tuga, there are a couple of for sale by owners in the PSL area that I am setting up times with - maybe one of them is your guy??

Adam, I will indeed take you up on you offer. Will change our hotel reservation down to that area for Tuesday night. Sounds like lots of fun. Will shoot you a note once I get the schedule a little more firmed up.

Mike, thanks for the heads up. I have been working through one of their Dallas salesman who is setting up one of the FL guys to show the coaches. I will definitely give you a call.

Sid Tuls

04-15-2009, 07:50 PM

Gordon check the 2007 Vantare H thats on R V Online it sure sounds like a steal I'am not good with directions but it might be in the same neck of the woods. Have fun shopping!!!!:) I think it's price @ $599K don't think it will last to long. But I been wrong before.

truk4u

04-15-2009, 07:58 PM

Gordon,

Give us an idea what your looking for, year range and maybe others can help. At PSL, if one of them is a 98 Liberty, call me or talk to Lew first.;)

adamdegraff

04-15-2009, 08:45 PM

Adam, I will indeed take you up on you offer. Will change our hotel reservation down to that area for Tuesday night. Sounds like lots of fun. Will shoot you a note once I get the schedule a little more firmed up.

Great. We'll look forward to meeting you! Offer is good for any other POGers down that way as well. We play a show in Boca Raton on Saturday night (April 18, 8PM) and then another one in Palm Beach Gardens (at the Eissey Campus Theater... an AMAZING hall, at 7PM on Tuesday the 21st.) And we are staying at Juno Beach RV Resort, after a bunch of y'all recommended it. So come on by and say hi.

phorner

04-15-2009, 09:28 PM

If you're in the Port St. Lucie area, stop by the Outdoor Resorts and say hello..... we're on Lot 25 and would be happy to meet you.

We purchased our Liberty coach from Fred Green at Marathon in San Antonio. Real nice guy but, if Marathon states that a bus has "had a complete PDI", I would want to see for myself exactly what was done. Their definition is loose to say the least.

We took them at their word and found out later by personal inspection that some important items were either missed or ignored.

Have fun shopping!!! :)

GDeen

04-16-2009, 01:55 PM

Thanks Paul, would love to meet you. Will check up with you during our whirlwind tour on our timing.

The $599 Vantare is a little north of our budget for our first bus. Wanting to stick with something somewhat less than that to ensure we like it. Probably the type of logic that leads to membership in the TBC.:eek:

I am specifically looking at a couple of 2000 model XLV's and a couple of earlyish XLII's (<2003). Other than that, it is an open book (or checkbook as it were).

Also want to say that Joe your comment from the first page of this thread is so true. Great folks here offering all kinds of help and even admission to their shows! We are going to have a good time if I can keep the blackberry from tracking me down...

ajducote

04-16-2009, 04:48 PM

I am at Parliament for a long weekend stay and Mark the sales guy showed me a 2000 Vantare that he is going to show Gordon. Very nice coach.
Parliament is treating us great. I needed a place to park near Tampa so the wife could go to a class in town Friday afternoon. Ken and Mark were nice enough to let us spend the weekend here with full hookups. The only drawback is that there are a LOT of very nice coaches to droll over. The boss has already given me the evil eye, so I need to be careful and go into stealth mode and see what I can find that I could talk her into. ( not very likely thou)
Gordon, I think you will like these people here. Very nice and easy going.

GDeen

04-16-2009, 05:32 PM

ajducote

04-16-2009, 05:57 PM

Yes I think that is the one. I looked at a bunch and might have gotten confused. At any rate, the one he said he was going to show you was beautiful.

garyde

04-17-2009, 12:55 AM

Featherlite sent me an e-mail today: http://fthrc.com/listing.php?type=all

$250,000.00 off all Coaches!

merle&louise

04-17-2009, 09:12 AM

Liberty is having a similar sale. Except instead of being $250,000 off all coaches it is $1.00 off of some selected coaches.

BrianE

04-17-2009, 10:31 AM

GDeen

04-17-2009, 10:40 AM

Actually Liberty has a 98 Liberty that has been on their inventory for a long time. I looked at it when making a deal on our Royale. It appeared to be a beauty and would imagine that it could be had for a very good price. Would suggest however that the PDI should be monitored very carefully to make sure all discrepancies are found and dealt with. A second (unbiased) set of eyes would be a good idea. My experience in dealing with the folks at Stuart was very good and they were more than willing to rectify the issues that I asked them to take care of.

They actually have a couple of interesting buses Brian that have been around for a while. We shall see how interested they are in selling them.

One question - are you basically saying don't trust them with the PDI although if you do happen to catch something they will be happy to fix it? I understand the general terms of buyer beware but am just curious if you experienced any particulars?

BrianE

04-17-2009, 11:13 AM

Gordon,

It seemed to me that there are a couple of scenarios with a Liberty resale. If they have done their full prep on the bus, it probably has new batteries, a very nice interior and exterior detail, new tires if they are not almost perfect, a very good normal service with all fluids (maybe excluding coolant) being drained and replaced and a very thorough functional check of systems. In my case some of these items were negotiated in the sale and I expect that may have been a result of the changes in the economy. All I'm suggesting is that they are very capable of excellent service. It may be however, that your inspection may determine the extent of the PDI....Hence the suggestion of a second set of eyes and your own check of system functionality.

With regard to coolant. If there is no record of recent replacement, and you don't have the inclination to do it yourself, would suggest you bite the bullet if necessary and have them do it with extended life coolant. Since the Liberty uses the Webasto heating system the process of changing and bleeding the system is somewhat involved. If you were to have them do this service, get involved, take notes and snap some digitals. You'll be glad you did.

GDeen

04-17-2009, 12:02 PM

Good advice - thanks Brian.

Jon Wehrenberg

04-17-2009, 01:36 PM

Gordon,

I think speaking generically that everything is negotiable when buying a coach. Instead of accepting the representation that all maintenance is up to date, I suggest you see the proof for yourself in the form of receipts. Match what has been done against the recommended maintenance schedule.

If there are no receipts and you accept someone's word, I would like to talk to you about a bridge I have up in Brooklyn.

In the absence of documentation I would suggest you pick a number that represents what you feel the maintenance will cost you to "zero" out the maintenance so you have a starting point for all recommended scheduled maintenance. At least that way you know when everything has been done and you start the maintenance as though the coach were new.

As Brian says coolant is a consideration, and since it is a pain to change you need to determine how to value that.

I would buy from a dealer with the proviso they zero out all maintenance and time related items, such as 10 year old air bags. Every dealer justifies their prricing on the basis of a coach bought from them has had a complete going over, so make that happen or get a price that is in the range of a private sale price. I would have no problem buying from a dealer As-Is if the price reflected that.

If buying from an individual recognize as soon as the wheels leave his driveway you are on your own. In fact once money changes hands you are on your own. The price needs to reflect the risk, and you probably should have someone very familiar with coaches (and who is completely impartial) go through the coach and report the findings. If everything does not work then you and the seller need to decide how it will be handled. No matter who you buy from at the very least get Detroit and Allison to read the codes and give a report on the condition of the engine or transmission.

If you do not get specific on the coach you want, but are open to anything available within a broad price range it is gong to be very hard to determine a fair price. Once you zero in on a particular conversion you can do the research to find out a price range and as you look at various representations of the desired coach you will know it is right. You will have the eureka moment.

merle&louise

04-17-2009, 03:24 PM

Gordon,

That green & white 2001 Vantare is BEAUTIFUL! That one has my vote; hope you can make a good deal on it. Tell Ken Robertson to give you a TUGA discount (1/2 off):D

GDeen

04-17-2009, 05:40 PM

I like the Tuga discount!:eek: That is a pretty snappy paint job isn't it???

As usual Jon, thanks for your sage advice....

0533

04-18-2009, 09:27 AM

I am with Jon on this. Before I made any offer I would want to see every receipt for every service and upgrade that has been done to this bus by both the dealer and the previous owner.

Personally if the dealer could not, would not offer this, i would move on without exception.

Have you considered having a Carfax done for the bus, accidents etc. When i made my purchase I required that the seller warrantee that the bus had not been in an accident, had no damage, fire, other major damage that could pop it's little head up at a later date.

I have purchased a lot of larger boats over the years. Pirates started on the water than moved onto land to sell boats, and I got my buyers masters degree buying used boats over the years, made every mistake possible. I liken Buses to boats and feel that sellers (both dealers, private sellers) have and will forget to offer important details that might provide important facts about the purchase.

I am still convinced that the purchase price is only 66.66% of the selling price. The remaining 33.33% is after the purchase, and the only way one can close the gap is to be a fully informed buyer.

There is no bus, boat, plane on the planet that is a good deal if it has sat for a long time without being carefully maintained, run, serviced, and all surfaces cared for, paint, roof, interior surfaces, leather, wood work, ceiling all of it.

That is the stuff you can see, the rest is the really hard to consider.

Add it all up and you have the answer to your buying question. Add or subtract the stuff that is there, has been done or neglected.

GDeen

04-18-2009, 02:03 PM

I am still convinced that the purchase price is only 66.66% of the selling price. The remaining 33.33% is after the purchase, and the only way one can close the gap is to be a fully informed buyer.

Wow - that is a little scary -plan on adding 50% to the purchase price to get it right??:eek:

I appreciate your insight and suggestions Bruce. I guess main take away point is check out everything humanly possible ahead of the deal.

phorner

04-18-2009, 05:02 PM

All good advice. It definitely pays real dividends to be an informed buyer.

That being said, don't let the "technical" side of searching for a bus overwhelm the fun of shopping!

It takes serious money to purchase and maintain a Prevost bus. But the "adventure" of ownership is priceless.

My only point is that you can't be so consumed with trying not to make a single mistake that you miss out on the enjoyment of ownership.

Once you're satisfied that the "major" stuff is acceptable, you can probably be a little less critical in your scrutiny.

Just my opinion...... I simply want to encourage you to enjoy the search as much as possible and try not to make it into another "job".....

0533

04-18-2009, 06:15 PM

I exaggerated the values somewhat, but it is important to set aside enough $ mentally during the negotiating process so you do not get burned. Again without good supporting paperwork then one must assume the seller is either sloppy, has something to hide, or is so forgetful that he has forgotten more than the paperwork. Also the bus like an aircraft, allow for an hourly operating cost. Jon is really good with these numbers and can give you a better insight on these expenses.

I would not steer away from ownership because of this, but just be fully informed when shopping. there are some great dealers and brokers out there and I know we have several on POG who are good standing members. Not all are as good as our POG friends and have little to gain by telling you about all the stuff that needs to be done while you are inspecting a potential bus.

Good luck and we all hope you find the right bus.

Jon Wehrenberg

04-28-2009, 08:33 AM

Loc

04-30-2009, 08:20 AM

Gordon,

We have purchased two buses. I planned on an expenditure of 10% of the purchase price of each bus to fix needed items like tires, batteries, and other anticipated needs. I spent about 8% on the first bus in the first year. I have spent about 5% on the second bus in the first year. Even if you have great maintenance records count on having some expenses. I hit the 10% target on both buses by the second year. These are great machines but they are not cheap to keep.

GDeen

04-30-2009, 09:10 AM

Thanks Loc - 10% is what I have estimated based on the condition I want to buy the bus in the first place. Since we have decided to go with no slides, that should cover quite a lot of repair.

Gordon,

We have purchased two buses. I planned on an expenditure of 10% of the purchase price of each bus to fix needed items like tires, batteries, and other anticipated needs. I spent about 8% on the first bus in the first year. I have spent about 5% on the second bus in the first year. Even if you have great maintenance records count on having some expenses. I hit the 10% target on both buses by the second year. These are great machines but they are not cheap to keep.

0533

04-30-2009, 09:36 AM

Gordon,

Don't get too scared about the after purchase expenses. They are discretionary. If you need to upgrade the interior, add flat screen TVs or do any other big budget items look for a coach where that stuff is done. The residual value of those upgrades is almost zero so let the previous owner take the hit financially.
Jon, your assumption is somewhat skewed based on your own skill levels in my opinion.

If the first time buyer does not have access to this forum or your skills, it is possible to find oneself with some large expense items out of the gate that get missed during the purchase process.

I do not think that most first time buyers (me included) think that a low mileage bus (7, to 10 years old ) would necessarily need all new house batteries, tires, shocks, or bags, chassis batteries, and more, and might not fully understand the cost for the above along with the other stuff, it can add up quickly.

What's more unless you hire an independent survey of your desired purchase the number could rise significantly, as the dealer/seller in most cases will not offer the negative details knowing that it will not benefit the sale in his favor.

Buses are nothing like plastic RV's, the size, the construction, the safety requirements, the air systems, all of it is much different than what most plastic RV owners have been used to. So the transition from plastic to stainless is a large step and should be made with eyes open and with some really careful investigation and commitment to inspecting the underbelly of each bus under consideration before making the purchase.

I do not care who is selling the bus, manufacturer, best dealer in the world, nicest little old lady school teacher or the crown prince of ??. The purchase is just the starting point.

Jon Wehrenberg

04-30-2009, 05:53 PM

Bruce,

I have to strongly disagree.

First, tires, batteries, a full maintenance are all negotiable items. You buy a coach cheap to reflect you will replace them, or you make the seller do them to close the deal, or you and the seller agree on some price that reflects their replacement.

None of the above requires any skill level beyond doing a little homeowrk by reading this site.

Obviously as coaches age other items such as air bags and Norgren valves, brake chambers and shock absorbers loom as an expense. Again, reading the many posts on this site makes a buyer aware there is more to a bus than oil changes. But even if the buyer has no mechanical skills the cost to replace and maintain these doesn't even begin to come close to the real expense of bus ownership which is depreciation.

If I had to spend $4000 to replace air bags that is about $400 per year considering their ten year life. Everything else I mentioned is substantially less. If you do the work yourself costs obviously are less, but even paying someone to maintain the coach when the costs are annualized they just are not that much compared to the loss of earnings on the invested capital.

Tires are going to vary based on the sizes used, but I doubt if any of us spends more than $1500 annually for tires which last 6 years with care, or $500 per year on batteries which last 5 years with care.

My point is the serious money spent on these buses is depreciation and discretionary items (like the big bucks a guy spent putting fat tires on his bus). Beyond that all dollars are for fuel and routine maintenance.

BTW, (I'm going to pull your chain here......) when you had Prevost analyze the electrical problem as an isolator you paid them serious money to do what I had asked you to do on this site. Had you done what I asked it would have taken a few minutes of your time and then all it would have cost you was the cost of the isolator and the time to deal with about 7 fasteners. Owners decide by their actions how much owning these buses cost. This site has many people that will give freely of their time to lead an owner to the most effective and least expensive way to address a need.

truk4u

04-30-2009, 08:34 PM

Buses are nothing like plastic RV's, the size, the construction, the safety requirements, the air systems, all of it is much different than what most plastic RV owners have been used to.

Bruce,

I don't think the step to a bus from a plastic, all electric, 45' diesel pusher is such a big deal. You mention size, air systems and safety requirements, all of which the plastic coaches have, but will have somewhat different systems. They are going to have issues with electrical and air just like we have and I don't get the safety requirement comment. I've had both and I think the buses have cost me less than the plastic out of warranty pushers.

One thing for certain, the bus support whether it's Prevost or the Converter, puts the entire plastic industry to shame!

garyde

04-30-2009, 11:48 PM

So far, tires have been the largest single cost. Even with tires you have a choice in costs . I've replaced all batteries at reasonable costs. All maintenance has been pretty reasonable. No big expenses to date.

0533

05-01-2009, 08:41 AM

Gee Jon, I guess I hit a sensitive cord.

Your response actually reinforces my point.

If the first time buyer does not have access to this forum or your skills, it is possible to find oneself with some large expense items out of the gate that get missed during the purchase process.

You and many others speak with authority, much experience, (Bus Barn/replete with Pit) and years of ownership, and in some cases several bus purchases.

I was referring to the "NEW" buyer who was transitioning from a plastic RV to a BUS. There are so many reasons to be careful in this transition that differ from a plastic bus. Example: Many Plastic RV owners purchased their units new with warrantee's, some warrantee's 3 years, so these folks expected they would have access to service without question for this period.
A used Bus is a very different animal, and the learning curve is greater as well. That was my point.

No body in my opinion buys a bus, and views it like one would an aircraft that is used for business. We were all trained to view aircraft this way and considered each hour with a specified expense item. If anyone purchases a bus with the idea that it is not a depreciating asset, he is delusional in my opinion. Buses are toys and toys are an expense.

PS> The Fat tires really make for a better safer ride which is why they are standard equipment on newer XLII's today. Yes I paid too much.

The electrical issue was another thing, it was complicated (above my pay grade) by the fact that when Marathon in it's infinite wisdom decided to move the regulator output monitoring to the house side (instead of the Chassis) on a single 270 alternator bus installation which does play havoc with the chassis side if there is an issue with the house batteries. Yes I did have 2 issues to deal at one time, and yes I did trip over my feet, I am good at this , had some company along with Prevost Car and Marathon until we determined how Marathon modified the regulator monitoring which is the case on all single 270 alternator coaches. I am having a second chassis alternator installed. some times it is the little stuff that converters forget to share that can cause big problems unless you know in advance.

Jon Wehrenberg

05-01-2009, 10:52 AM

Bruce,

You are correct in that a new buyer who has not found his way here prior to the purchase may expose him or herself to some serious after purchase expenses.

This is especially the case when the decor becomes the deciding factor and the salesman says these are million mile buses without explaining that they reach that milestone by getting good routine maintenance.

The focus is on the cost to own one of these buses. A buyer that does not use all the resources available becomes a test pilot and assumes a lot of risk. A buyer that uses forums like this to learn the market, the specifics about coaches of interest, how to evaluate a prospective purchase, and where to tap into available expertise has saved thousands, and maybe tens of thousands compared to the buyer who has done no homework.

But we on this forum are talking to potential Prevost owners who are in fact doing their homework. Apart from routine maintenance these new buyers will have few if any surprises, and any serious money they spend after the purchase will likely be at their option, not because they overlooked something.

We cannot help those that will not help themselves.

When I bought the first bus there was no resources such as the internet or forums of this type. Before we closed the deal we looked at as many coaches as possible, we visited a converter and asked a lot of dumb questions, I spoke to Harvey Mitchell who sold the coach to the previous owners and who knew the coach very well, and then I had a converter (Don Hoffman of Hoffman Coaches) do a 100% inspection. My wife liked the decor, but I was all over that coach mechanically with Don and it turned out to be a trouble free coach that only required routine stuff.

No mechanical aptitude is required to own a coach, only a willingness to pay attention to details and do some homework.

jelmore

05-01-2009, 05:34 PM

I think I'll have to side with Bruce a bit on this. When we were looking, I joined this forum and got some great advice. I knew absolutely nothing about these machines. We had an older plastic coach a few years ago that the most expensive thing ever done was replace the radiator. I could not believe that would cost $700. And then we got the bus. The advice here, and what I was looking for, was converter advice. Didn't know what else to ask. The coach we decided on from a private party had been at Liberty and Mellinium on consignment. Both told us what a great coach it was and what good condition it was in. The guy we bought it from had a private mechanic that took care of it for him. They both said the tires were great, the batteries new, that he was recognized as the king of car sales in Chicago, never advertised because he was such a good guy and everybody bought from him and were very happy. Customer was number one. He showed us all his glorious press clippings. The coach was only driven by his driver and was only used for transportation for his wife because she didn't like to fly on his jet. We were snowed.

Why didn't I ask more technical questions here? Because I had no idea what to ask about things I didn't even know about. We bought it for quite a bit less than an identical coach sold for at Liberty at the same time, so when the expenses started adding up, we thought we had that margin built in. Tires, batteries, suspension, satellite dish, inverter wiring, and on and on took their toll. Surely we could have made those expenses discretionary, but if it's not right, it gets fixed. We have no regrets because we now have a coach that we know is in great condition.

Going in, we had no idea what lay ahead. I think we had on those rose colored glasses. If buying a bus was purely a logical choice, I'm sure we would never have been on this adventure. But heck, it's only money and a whole lot of fun.

Jon Wehrenberg

05-01-2009, 07:25 PM

Jim,

On the front of this site is the link to a lot of information about buying one.

If you didn't want to use some of that information asking the following on this forum would have roused the troops:

"I am contemplating buying a bus, what should I look for?"

If a question like that from a potential buyer was posted you would have been buried in advice. The only job you would have would be to separate the BS from good advice. (Not that there is ever any BS on this forum.) That question is about as far from being a technical one as you can possibly get.

One thing is for certain, you would have been advised to check tire dates, battery dates, have Detroit and Allison pull the codes and you would have asked for a review of the maintenance records.

I cannot tell you how many times I have seen sellers suck in the unaware by showing them the tread depth on their 6 year old tires (covered with tire dressing) and explaining how they can get another 100,000 miles from the tires. Go to some of the sites on the internet and see how many buses are advertised with the tread depth listed, but not any date codes.

I think we have even suggested here that before money changes hands buyers either live in the coach or spend a lot of time operating every switch dial and control to make sure everything works. Doing stuff like that goes a long way to sorting out fact from fiction. Nothing technical there.

My point is we all, me included were overwhelmed when we first decided to buy the coach. Knowing I was in way over my head I prevailed upon the expert, Don Hoffman to do the inspection. He did not have a dog in the fight. He didn't care if I bought the coach or not. All he did was operate everything and evaluate everything, methodically, and with attention to detail. I didn't do anything technical. I watched. When it was all over he told me he could not find anything that did not work or that needed any attention.

A new buyer, not confident of their skills can probably do an inspection, but it is far better to get a third party to do it. The only exception is if the purchase is from an established converter who will stand behind the coach. In that case I would not drive away until I lived in the coach, found how to work everything, got the defects repaired, and went through some training.

While on the topic of training, when I bought my first one it was Harvery Mitchell who told me originally the coach was a good one and to buy it rather than look at the coaches he had at his dealership. Then he offered to do the training for me, and he was good to his word. He provided four days of hookup at his facility and every day he had his people visit us and teach the systems and how everything worked. He showed us what kind of a first class guy he was and is. My point being even someone with no clue can access resources so there are no surprises.

jelmore

05-01-2009, 08:33 PM

Jon, you are far sharper than I in these matters. Appreciate your wisdom.

GDeen

05-01-2009, 09:44 PM

Freshly involved in the process, I have experienced some interesting assertions made by salesmen along the way. Only through reading here and wearing out Jon and others with email questions ahead of time did I know them to be BS when they were broached.

A sampling:

"You buy from them, you better be ready to add tires, batteries, bags, and Norgren valves and that will set you back $40k." (remember Jon when I asked you directly for those costs ahead of my FL trip? Came in handy).

"You better keep $10k in the cookie jar to fix that OTR compressor."

"I have never heard of 3 cruiseairs not cooling a 45' coach - 3 is overkill already."

"their product is no better than a manufactured coach as many as they run off the line."

(finger stuck in tread) "oh you got at least 50% left here - you are good to go." (on a coach that was purportedly all new on wearable items)

Will I get it completely right? No, but I think I have an idea of how to at least not have them snickering when I drive away.

Jim, unfortunately your point carries over to the convertor as well as the slick individual sellers. Buyer beware and be prepared. Most importantly, I like dealing with people known to be of integrity and honesty who along the way give you no reason to believe them to be anything different. Unfortunately sometimes they just don't have a coach that will work for you, and then you really can't let down your guard.

chtree

05-01-2009, 11:16 PM

The POG members were a real wealth of information and help in the long process of our finding and purchasing a coach. We also were lucky enough to have Don and Tim Hoffman look at our prospects. Hoffman Coach is two miles from our shop and I grew up watching the busses drive in and out of there place.

0533

05-02-2009, 09:25 AM

Jon has it right, and says it best in my opinion.

Jon Wrote: "I think we have even suggested here that before money changes hands buyers either live in the coach or spend a lot of time operating every switch dial and control to make sure everything works. Doing stuff like that goes a long way to sorting out fact from fiction. Nothing technical there".

If you can drive into a dealer/sellers yard, inspect the bus or buses you are interested, in take a test drive, have it inspected by a third respected party you trust (I am not available by the way) then do what Jon suggested, bring your tooth brush, sleeping bag and ask the owner/dealer if you can spend the night. test everything, cook a meal, use the dishwasher, do a load of laundry, have coffee using the Insta Hot, take a shower, fill the water, check the inverter values while under load, use the TV, in all rooms, microwave, test the spot light, backup camera, all Wabasto heaters (even in the summer, crank up the heat temps and let it fly, same with the air, blast it out, place a temp gauge in the outlets, run out the slides, do as much as you can in the 18 hours. I would also unplug the old girl and see how the batteries work under pure inverter, under the genset all of it. Make a check list, Marathon and others actually have such a list that you could ask for, check it off make notes, everything you do, any issues you find will save you real $$, and might well make the difference between a NO/Yes on the purchase.

I bet some dealers/owners will flinch if you ask to do this (insurance liability will be the answer) but demand it, you are in the drivers seat, if it does not work, is broken, you will be surprised what you will find when you tip the bus upside down.

Jon Wehrenberg

05-02-2009, 10:06 AM

Full disclosure......

When I bought our current coach I bought it from Buddy Gregg in Knoxville. I had no expectations and bought it as is, where is.

My wife and I went through it for a few hours, but before sealing the deal I wanted to get at the underside. After I checked out everything I could in the house, and after having driven the bus I was confident the bus was a good one.

When it was brought to my garage I got under it and spent about an hour checking stuff I could not see from above. So the total time we spent during the evaluation was about three hours total.

But as a couple who had a coach for 14 years we knew exactly what to expect from every switch and device and it did not take very long to evaluate its condition. We coupled that with the fact that what we paid was substantially less than the market price for similar coaches so I could afford to overlook some serious problems because in my view I was money ahead. The key here was even if something as serious as having to replace both the engine and transmission showed up, I was still buying it cheaper than any other I could find.

As it turns out Buddy Gregg replaced every single battery, put on two new tires so the oldest tires were only three years old, and they left me with a bay full of every fluid, belt, filter and part I would need to do a 100% maintenance on the entire coach to "zero" out the entire maintenance schedule. They were outstanding to deal with and unexpectedly so considering it was what I considered an as-is purchase.

Obviouisly the second coach purchase took far less time than the first and I did not rely on anyone else. As it turns out Kim Sloan (a POG member and the original previous owner) obviously took care of the coach because not only did everything work, but it has proven very reliable.

A purchase does not have to be a long drawn out inspection process if as an owner you are comfortable doing your own systems checks. I contrasted my second purchase with the first in which I needed to take my time and use third parties because we didn't have a clue. As a newbie I would always get all the help and advice I could. There is no sin in recognizing the first experience with these things is daunting, but after some experience the comfort level ramps up very fast.

0533

05-02-2009, 10:25 AM

Jon,

Your comments about Buddy Gregg bring back memories for me. There are some folks who give Buddy Gregg a bad wrap, but I had a similar experience to you back in the mid 80's when I purchased my Beaver (great plastic coach back then). The folks at Buddy Gregg Florida were outstanding at every turn.

I lived in New England at the time, left the Beaver in Lakeland Fl at Buddy Gregg's at N/C just let him show it as an example of the size and model in exchange.

Back in the Mid 80's I used to have one of those bag Cell Phones, the big black bags with a real phone in them. While flying to Florida at 30K feet I used to call Buddy Gregg and ask him to start the Beaver, check all systems and told him I would be there at a certain time once I landed in Orlando, kept a Jeep at the Orlando Airport in the winter. Those were the days when you could call from the air skip all the way to your final destination and guess what the aircraft did not fall out of the sky as a result.

Good experience, today I do not know what to expect from them , but back then they were great.

Jon Wehrenberg

05-02-2009, 10:38 AM

I had previously had a very bad experience with his organization to the point where I had zero respect for Buddy Gregg and his company.

The reason I treated this purchase as an as-is purchase was because I had no expectations of getting good service or support. They had a bus we wanted and the price was substantially better than any other we could negotiate anywhere else, so I held my nose and went ahead with the deal.

The entire organization in Knoxville at the time outdid themselves. It changed my lousy opinion of the organization. They went far beyond what I expected and made repairs I never expected them to do because they were things I found in the inspection and assumed I would be fixing them. (Simple stuff like the Braun antenna had a glitch)

The sales rep obviously listened as my wife and I discussed things we found in the inspection that required tweaking or adjustment or a minor repair and they did those things on their own without our knowledge. The only way we found out was when we came to pick up the coach the techs were wrapping things up and I admit my mouth must have dropped open in awe.

GDeen

05-02-2009, 10:49 AM

Bruce, looks like 533 is on the Marathon pre-owned list eh? Changes in the works?

garyde

05-02-2009, 11:04 AM

When I purchased my Coach, I had asked Liberty if they could just deliver it to me in Nevada. That is not their policy. You have to come out to their facility and spend time with the Coach and the Liberty people. Get acquainted with everything and everyone. Stay as long as you feel comfortable, and work thru all of the questions and issues. Now, I was in a hurry to get on the road, but I did spend a day and night there living in the coach. All was good.

0533

05-02-2009, 11:21 AM

Bruce, looks like 533 is on the Marathon pre-owned list eh? Changes in the works?
If I can find an 06/07 shell, double slide coach that fits the bill, the wallet and sell 0533 I will move, no plans on being a 2 bus owner.

My plans are to head out at the end of May for Banff AB going through Yellowstone, Glacier, back around to Vancouver if time allows returning to Maine in September back to Florida in November. We love the bus and RVing in general, it allows us to work and play at the same time, Sat Internet and Boost cell service keep us in touch with our internet buses. As long as we can hike, bike and Kayak we are easy keepers. Beats the Sh.. out of looking out my Florida window each day, really like the changes and meeting new people seeing new stuff along the way, especially the out of the way places, diners, literally the road less taken.

Ray Davis

05-02-2009, 11:28 AM

Gordon,

Ask Bruce about purchasing fuel in Canada. That's one story I'll never forget! :D

0533

05-02-2009, 12:02 PM

Got Me Ray. This is why we are heading out to Western Canada. There are lots of Soby's Gas bars out West just waiting for the Silver Bandit. After All it is the wild west. I think we have worn out our welcome down east.

GDeen

05-02-2009, 12:09 PM

If I can find an 06/07 shell, double slide coach that fits the bill, the wallet and sell 0533 I will move, no plans on being a 2 bus owner.

My plans are to head out at the end of May for Banff AB going through Yellowstone, Glacier, back around to Vancouver if time allows returning to Maine in September back to Florida in November. We love the bus and RVing in general, it allows us to work and play at the same time, Sat Internet and Boost cell service keep us in touch with our internet buses. As long as we can hike, bike and Kayak we are easy keepers. Beats the Sh.. out of looking out my Florida window each day, really like the changes and meeting new people seeing new stuff along the way, especially the out of the way places, diners, literally the road less taken.

Sounds like an epic trip. I like the way you think - I am preparing my business partners for dealing with me on the road in the future......guess I better buy a bus first though.:cool:

The fuel story.....????? What happened back to the east?

0533

05-02-2009, 12:30 PM

I will upload the story for your entertainment (Ray seems to still get a kick out of my misery) but it appears the server is busy, will get it up for your reading pleasure.

On this trip out west I have had a bus cloaking cover (parachute material) will place over bus during Soby's fill ups this summer. I will get away this time, just requires a little planning.:D

Jon Wehrenberg

05-02-2009, 01:26 PM

Bruce, Here comes a little more chain pulling........

Your present coach is fantastic. That is not just me saying that, others have said so, and even you if I recall. So now that you have outed yourself as being a potential buyer please explain what exactly you will get for the serious dollars you will spend to get a bus of the vintage you mention?

After you have listed all the fabulous and many improvements over what you currently have tell us how much money difference you plan on spending to get those vast improvements. Don't forget to offset the improvements with a listing of all the benefits of the present coach you will be giving up.

Tell us how you can justify those improvements with the amount of money spent to move up.

tdelorme

05-02-2009, 02:14 PM

Jon, like most of us, Bruce has fixed, repaired or replaced every thing possible to get his unit in perfect condition. The only thing left to do it trade up and start the process all over again.:rolleyes:

Jon Wehrenberg

05-02-2009, 02:38 PM

My point exactly.

Having been through it all we now sit back and watch others pour enough money into their coaches to keep Air Force One flying over all the US cities, not just NYC, and then when they get done, and before they can enjoy the fruits of their labors they are on to the next latest and greatest.

At least Bruce will get to ride on fat tires with his new 2006. Of course the new coach will weigh more than his current ride, so he will have to upgrade those tires to even fatter ones to compensate for the extra heft.

0533

05-02-2009, 04:42 PM

Jon wrote: Your present coach is fantastic. That is not just me saying that, others have said so, and even you if I recall. So now that you have outed yourself as being a potential buyer please explain what exactly you will get for the serious dollars you will spend to get a bus of the vintage you mention?

If it is a Marathon, I will get a Tan Leather jacket and a big old bill.

I have owned new stuff and used, sometimes there is no value trading up and other times the difference is huge, I will know when I see it. I really do however like the 2 slide configuration in the late model Marathon's, excellent use of space, great floor plans.

Jon wrote: After you have listed all the fabulous and many improvements over what you currently have tell us how much money difference you plan on spending to get those vast improvements. Don't forget to offset the improvements with a listing of all the benefits of the present coach you will be giving up.

Just about 250% more I expect in the end, if it is a 2007 shell. There is no way i can expect to get what I spent on improvements back. I hope that whoever ends up owning 0533 will see and understand the upgrades, but who knows.

Jon wrote: Tell us how you can justify those improvements with the amount of money spent to move up.

Can't. especially in this economy, but why did I purchase 0533 and spend over $125K upgrading it in the first place. It is like any other habit, vice, hobby you just do it if it feels good.

I love my current bus, plan on heading out for the next 6 months, but could go either way.

The bus must be in really outstanding condition, none of the almost stuff, with just a little TLC it will be like new crap. I have been in 2007 buses that look like they have been off roading.

I guess for me it will be whether I have the energy to find another great bus that can be the next special Prevost.

My real concern is whether newer Prevost Buses are as well constructed, better engineered, as robust as the XL's.
__________________
Bruce

0533

05-02-2009, 04:46 PM

The 425/70/R22.5 may fit on the steers and the tags who knows, a little Modification to the wheel wells and fenders, how exciting this would be to have the "ONE" tires all around, I really like this idea.

Jon Wehrenberg

05-02-2009, 05:26 PM

Real men have dual tires. The only guy I know that likes the sissy Tonka toy super singles is Joe C. (BTW all my tires are the same size and so were yours before you messed around.)

But I like your logic Bruce. None of this bus business is about making sense. It is about enjoying ourselves. I'll bet no matter what you spend for your dream coach with two slides it will be cheaper than a Mistress.:D (I'm just guessing at that. I have no way of knowing, and don't intend to do any research)

Ray Davis

05-02-2009, 05:54 PM

Bruce, you can't sell #0533!! You'd have to change your forum handle then, and that would cause an accounting fiasco with Jim S, and the world just wouldn't be right! :eek:

garyde

05-03-2009, 12:25 AM

I'll bet no matter what you spend for your dream coach with two slides it will be cheaper than a Mistress.:D (I'm just guessing at that. I have no way of knowing, and don't intend to do any research)[/QUOTE]

Jon,
There's so many ways to spend one's hard earned money. I can't think of a better way. Prevost, that is.;)

0533

05-08-2009, 03:25 PM

Gordon,

Ask Bruce about purchasing fuel in Canada. That's one story I'll never forget! :D

It sure took me a while to find the story and the images but here it is Gordon. This is living proof that a Prevost can almost get away with anything and disappear into the dark, unless you give yourself up of course..I will be giving a POG seminar on how to save on fuel expenses while on the road.

I had forgotten the story in the paper, there had been a rash of drive off fuel bandits during the summer, can't blame them, fuel was $6.80 per gallon.

I love the line where the reporter quotes the police (who by the way did not find me for 4 days) The RCMP needs help in finding the "MASSIVE" motorhome, doesn't that feel good.... They also exchanged my bikes for a Barbecue, not a bad idea.

Finally the gas station employee who got run over by another gas bandit was sure lucky it wasn't 0533, he would have had more than a broken ankle I think.