Storing with fridge 'on' or 'off? [Archive] - Prevost Owners Group Forum

merle&louise

04-12-2009, 10:17 PM

I leave mine on all of the time. We rarely park for more than a couple of weeks; we use the coach a lot. Can't think of any advantage in turning it off!:)

I picked up a refrigerator brush that is made especially for cleaning the coils and under the refrigerator. It is about 24" long and 2" in diameter. Works great, I bought it in a hardware store.

tdelorme

04-12-2009, 10:25 PM

Always on, stocked with beverages and ready to travel. Why would you ever turn it off?

LarryB

04-13-2009, 01:38 AM

Ted, I don't know why one would ever turn off the fridge---that's why I posted the question---in case there was a reason I was unaware of.

Jon Wehrenberg

04-13-2009, 07:19 AM

I turn mine off as soon as it is emptied after a trip.

My question is why not turn it off?

We don't need it for extra refrigerator space, we don't keep anything in it except some cans of soda (I have a refrigerator in my garage next to the bus andyway) so what good does it do to keep it running?

flyu2there

04-13-2009, 07:23 AM

Today I agree with Jon. MT the thing out, make certain the doors are ajar and probably not a bad idea to open a box of Arm and Hammer and leave it in there. Not going to hurt it at all!

John

tdelorme

04-13-2009, 07:54 AM

I keep it running because many of our trips are spur of the moment get a ways. I just like knowing the bus is ready to travel. Full of diesel, ice cream in the freezer and clean underwear packed. When I park the coach, I dump, fill with water, check the oil and get her ready to head out again. When we leave, I start the engine and generator, (yea, I run the generator about 90% of the time) check the air pressure in the tires, unplug and drive off. For years, we have just headed out with no particular destination in mind. Just feels good to get out there and burn some diesel and having the bus ready to roll is my preference.
Please don't tell me your saving money on electricity by turning the fridge off.

dale farley

04-13-2009, 08:11 AM

I turn mine off, leave the doors opens and have a box of soda in the fridge and the freezer. I also have battery minders on my engine (24v) and house batteries (12 V), so my current draw with the bus plugged in is usually 2 amps. This allows me to turn off my inverters except when I need them. I turn the inverters on once a month when I start the bus an run "everything."

I have heard some say that the fridge will last longer if left running, but I am not sure of that. I do know that it needs to be on periodically so the bearings don't freeze up from sitting in one spot.

We have a small cabin between Bryson City and Cherokee, N.C., and when we bought it 24 years ago, it had an older fridge in it. One door with a freezer compartment inside. I decided to wait until it died before I replaced it, and I am still waiting. It is probably at least 45-50 years old. We run it a few days a year, and so far, it works great. I do realize this is an exception to the rule.

truk4u

04-13-2009, 09:11 AM

Since refrigerators are my main focus at present, I can tell you the tech that looked at mine in Houston told me to let them run all the time. Why, don't have a clue, but like Dale, we have one in the basement bought in 1982 and still doing it's job and it's never been shut off.

Kevin Erion

04-13-2009, 09:18 AM

I turn mine off, empty out and wait until it drys out, way easier to clean when dry!

michaeldterry

04-13-2009, 10:26 AM

I'm not fortunate enough to have electric hook-up available at the storage lot where we keep our bus. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find a place convenient to our home that offers RV/bus storage with any sort of hook-ups. We basically pay for a parking space in a secure (gate code access) lot with security cameras. I would love to have access to a similar situation with electric hook-up - or even better - I would pay a fair premium to have access to indoor storage. Anyone in or near Cherokee County, GA got an empty warehouse space they would care to rent to a fellow POGger to protect his beloved bus baby? :D We'd be your devoted friends forever! :p

Steve Bennett

04-13-2009, 12:52 PM

We shut ours off because unfortunately our trips are usually at least 30 days apart. If you leave it on, try to keep it full of as much water or liquids as possible. The extra mass of these items will keep it from cycling as much. I would also be very careful about keeping meat or anything in the freezer that would spoil / smell if it lost power unless you can check on it frequently. We have seen many coaches that have had the refrigerator ruined, (mainly during service when they did not plug in the coach) do to the odor of spoiled food.

rahangman

04-13-2009, 02:24 PM

Will Garner

04-13-2009, 07:50 PM

Michael & Dr. Vita Terry,

I'm not sure what part of Georgia in which you reside. However, it may be possible to find an old, no longer used, tobacco sales warehouse for indoor storage. Those buildings usually have large doors, both in width and height. I looked at one in Carthage for possible commercial storage use but could not come to terms. That was almost three years ago and it is still on the market.

flyu2there

04-13-2009, 08:06 PM

Beware of the storage areas that boast of Security Camera coverage. About 3 years ago while still in Omaha I bought a Polaris ATV & Trailer and stored it at a supposedly reputable rental area who extolled their security camera system. However, when it came to pass that someone was able to steal trailer and all, and I asked for Video Survailance , I found out that the installed "Cameras" were really just fake and that they figured it was enough to deter a theft. Oh well, even with the help of a lawyer I was unable to hold the Property liable due to a catch all clause of Not responsible for .... so be cautious about any sort of rental/storage area. Check for an airplane hanger...

Unfortunately the airplane hangar thing is in the past....that is unless it is a private airport with a personally owned hangar. The TSA has mandated just what came come onto an airport and if it doesn't fly, it won't be there much longer. They are working there way through airports, the bigger ones went first, now they are finishing up with any airport with any kind of air service and soon they will even be in Milad City Idaho :D

truk4u

04-13-2009, 09:07 PM

michaeldterry

04-14-2009, 07:34 AM

Michael,

In case you haven't noticed, I'm 10 miles from you and have previously PM'd you and sent an e-mail and you never answered. If you want a covered spot in Cherokee County with power, I have a source if space is available.

Tom - I have noticed that you are close to us. However, I've not received either of the messages that you refer to above! (I just re-checked my private messages and all my e-mail files) I'd love to know more about the covered spot with power that you mentioned! My direct e-mail address is michael_terry@comcast.net

We live in Towne Lake Hills East and the bus is currently kept at a lot on Bells Ferry Road, near Hwy 92 (3-4 miles from our house).

michaeldterry

04-14-2009, 07:39 AM

Beware of the storage areas that boast of Security Camera coverage. About 3 years ago while still in Omaha I bought a Polaris ATV & Trailer and stored it at a supposedly reputable rental area who extolled their security camera system. However, when it came to pass that someone was able to steal trailer and all, and I asked for Video Survailance , I found out that the installed "Cameras" were really just fake and that they figured it was enough to deter a theft. Oh well, even with the help of a lawyer I was unable to hold the Property liable due to a catch all clause of Not responsible for .... so be cautious about any sort of rental/storage area. Check for an airplane hanger...

I personally checked out the security camera system. It is functional and provides full coverage of the storage lot. However, I hear your warning loud and clear. I don't kid myself that the cameras are any real protection against determined thieves or vandals. This was just the best place that I could find that was close enough to home to have reasonably fast access to the bus.

Jon Wehrenberg

04-14-2009, 08:21 AM

I'm sure most realize this, but for those who may be new to ownership be aware that the best two things you can do for your coach is to keep it under cover when it is not being used and to maintain power to the coach.

Our coaches are built to be used. They were built by Prevost to be used often and to have the miles accumulate. It keeps everything exercised and in good shape. But if you cannot drive the coach often, at least protect it. After the seminars last year given by the tire companies I am also supporting the chassis on stands and taking the weight off the tires to extend their life.

Keeping the coach powered up is also a huge advantage. Inverters are designed to maintain the batteries and if nothing else keeping power to the inverters is going to prolong the life of a set of very expensive batteries. But power is also important to maintain reasonable temepratures. A coach cooking in the summer heat, especially if it is not under cover may develop problems with the adhesion of the laminates. Heat shortens the life of plastics and other materials. Conversely, in sub freezing temps power is needed for heat.

A short exposure to the outside without cover or power is unlikely to create problems, but over time it can produce many issues. For potential buyers something that must be considered in these times is how long a coach has been sitting on a dealer's lot available for sale, and what has happened to the coach while it has been sitting. I would worry not only about the abive mentioned concerns, but what about corrosion inside the engine, mold or mildew, axle seals, batteries, tires, suspension valves that have not been exercised, etc.

Kevin Erion

04-14-2009, 09:06 AM

As Jon mentioned, how long are buses sitting at Dealers for sale? One reason I like California Coach is every bus is inside and plugged in. They also make trips inside to check on things almost every day.

merle&louise

04-14-2009, 01:13 PM

[QUOTE=Jon Wehrenberg;46247] After the seminars last year given by the tire companies I am also supporting the chassis on stands and taking the weight off the tires to extend their life.

Jon,

Sorry for the thread creep, but how are the Chinese Double Coin tires holding up? How many miles do you have on them presently?

Jon Wehrenberg

04-14-2009, 01:23 PM

I'd have to look up the miles. Just guessing around 30,000.

They continue to hold air. No signs of unusual wear, still a smooth ride and I like the finish on the sidewall a whole lot better than the Michelins

The Michelins have a "pebbled" finish that is not smooth. As a result they pick up dirt and crud easier than the Double Coin and are more difficult to clean resulting in the need to use more tire dressing more often. The Double Coin have a very smooth sidewall, smaller size letters for their name and clean up much easier, usually with just a damp cloth. Assuming they last as well as they appear to be for several more years at which point I need to replace my tags, the new tires will be Double Coin and will go on the steer axle.

At least as long as the tires have a price advantage over the Michelins.

LarryB

04-14-2009, 06:50 PM

FWIW-- I asked an appliance repair guy about his recommendation for the fridge being 'on' or 'off'. He recommended it being left 'on'. It seems acid forms in the lines and if left to sit idle will eat holes in the line. He said SubZero had done a bunch of research on this very subject and, he was just passing on their findings.

Also recommended is to put several gal. jugs of water or, the equivalent, in the fridge to help it cycle less often.

Jon Wehrenberg

04-14-2009, 07:32 PM

The cynic in me would ask to see the data.

Acid in the lines.........is that in addition to the freon and the compressor oil?

When he is not repairing refrigerators I suppose he sells nitrogen for bus tires.

LarryB

04-14-2009, 09:34 PM

Jon,I am only reporting what was told to me--thought I would pass along the info since I started this thread. If you want more info I suggest you log onto the Subzero site and explore. It has to do with chemical reactions within the lines.

Your last comment I hope was an attempt to make a joke, since you neither know the man or his qualifications.

Jon Wehrenberg

04-15-2009, 07:04 AM

It was a joke, but I would be spring loaded to ask him to boot up the computer and show me the report. The reason the assertion about acid in the refrigerant lines is such a big deal is because before anything is put in a refrigeration system the lines are vacuumed. Only then is the refrigerant installed.

What he is suggesting is that every refrigerator when turned off, such as in seasonal condos, cabins in the mountains, RVs that are stored without power, air conditioning systems for homes that run only during the summer, etc. are being eaten up by something in the refrigerant. That is a major piece of information or BS and I think it should be backed up with proof. For Sub-Zero or any company using refrigerant to say that suggests they or DuPont have failed in their duty to customers.

The nitrogen in tires was a discussion on this site. Joe our tester gave a final report.

flyu2there

04-15-2009, 08:09 AM

Well, that one caught my attention. Sub-Zero said nothing on the topic but good old Westinghouse did.......
although Betty Furness was no where to be found on their site, nor the slogan "You can be sure if its Westinghouse"

"Q. If I have a fridge in a holiday house should I keep turning it on and off?
A. This depends entirely on the customer's needs and times involved. It will not hurt the fridge either way."

Jon Wehrenberg

04-15-2009, 11:57 AM

I also did a search to see if I could find anything on line to suggest one method is better than another. I came up empty.

Larry, we may kid around a lot here, but if people are to be guided by what is posted I think those of us that post try to be accurate, and if we are only expressing an opinion we should indicate that. A good example was the often stated opinion that our tires should be removed about 6 years from the manufacturer's date code. Jim Skiff was able to have experts available to discuss that from Michelin and Goodyear at the Sevierville and Pahrump rallies last year.

They expanded on that advice to give us a better understanding, that being the driving force behind the removal of our tires should be the cracking or checking found on the sidewalls, and that their warranty expires six years from date of installation, or 10 years from date of manufacture, whichever comes first.

The refrigerator running issue is one that we all need accurate information on because if something extends the life of the refrigerator we need to know so we do not prematurely go through what Truk is now dealing with.

JIM CHALOUPKA

04-15-2009, 12:27 PM

garyde

04-15-2009, 10:27 PM

I turn off my refer in Idaho, and it stays off 7or 8 months every year, no problem. It is possible at the solder points, there could be acid from the solder used when the refer is new.

truk4u

04-16-2009, 09:34 AM

I suppose it all depends on how you use your bus. For us, it never sets more than 30 days and I'm fortunate enough to have a better half that likes to cook. It wouldn't be practical for us to unload and shut it down, since we keep it loaded with all the condiments, water, drinks and some frozen food. All we have to do is re-stock when we're ready to go and that's it.

For those that don't do much or any cooking, your fridge probably looks like Jdub's dorm fridge with a half eaten rib bone and a bottle of R C Cola anyway and easy to empty when you get home.

If I had Jon's money, I could eat out more and then shut down my fridge!:D

Jerry Winchester

04-16-2009, 12:21 PM

And I don't think Jon eats leftovers, so he doesn't even need a fridge for them. And he only drinks cold beer if someone brings it to him, so I think he has the right idea.

merle&louise

04-16-2009, 01:16 PM

Jon needs a CLAPPER! Clap on clap off! The CLAPPER!

That way when he wants to turn off the refrigerator all he has to do is snap his fingers. But wait, then Di might be confused and bring him a cup of coffee:D

Jon Wehrenberg

04-16-2009, 02:38 PM

I just need a clapper that knows the difference between clapping (which means turn off the refrigerator) and snapping my fingers which means bring me coffee right now.

I'm heading down to Sun N Fun all by myself. I'll tell you this is going to be a bit of a shock because if I do want coffee I may actually have to make it myself. The sacrifices us guys make is unending.

flyu2there

04-16-2009, 06:00 PM

She told me, with the newer models, that once you plug it in it's only going to last ten or twelve years on average, so just go ahead and use it to meet your own requirements.
Sometimes they will last a little longer, but nothing like those old energy sucking work horses like I used to sell.

JIM:D

Ahhh Jim, those were the days. Betty Furness pushing Westinghouse and Frank Gifford hyping GE! The best of the bunch, however, was the Servel; old ammonia referigerator that would only die if you punctured one of the lines with an ice pick trying to get the 50#'s of frost out. Talk about green, I do recall they used about the same power as a 25 watt bulb, to heat the gas.

Yes sir, when I need a new refer I am going to restore an old Servel and as a nice contrast (:D) I am going to install a Muntz TV, black and white of course! Talk about eclectic, what ever happened to Mad Man Muntz? What about towing one of his carz.....Muntz Towed. Doesn't get a whole lot better than that!!

Joe Cannarozzi

04-16-2009, 10:11 PM

You mean everyone's fridges don't run on 1 amp like ours:confused:

Very weird. You all been ripped.

Jon Wehrenberg

04-17-2009, 06:35 AM

Hey Gasoline guy. Yours may run on 1 Amp but it uses propane and ours defrost themselves.

I liked our Norcold because it seemed we could dry camp forever since it used so little battery power, but it took forever to get cold, I was always cleaning rust pieces from the stack off the pilot burner, and the thing frosted up in a week or two.

Thanks, but I'll take my energy hog double door self defrosting real refirgerator. Don't you have some air bags to replace?

LarryB

04-17-2009, 11:21 AM

Well--not to beat a dead horse or create a pissing contest. Jon, you seem to think that terms I used in pervious posts, "FWIW" and "I'm only stating what was told to me" aren't good enough to indicate my "opinion". I never intended to have anything I posted to be the Final Word. I stated one man's 'recommendation' which he based on info he claimed to have from a manufacture he deals with.

Well more discovery on my part, since I brought up this subject, found that the Appliance Guy I referred to was mistaken or given conflicting info. I spoke with SubZero both on their web site and on the phone. Their 'current' recommendation is to let the user be the one that determines what an "extended period of time is" ----and if one will not be using the fridge for "an extended period of time", "turn off the unit, empty it, and prop the door open". This is published in their user's guide.

I would suspect [opinion being stated here] that since we probably have several different makes of fridges in our buses that this may not apply to all units.

When I first posted the question as to what others did I had no idea it would evolve into all of this, and I'm not certain that I know what the best approach to this is, even now.

I hope this clears up any misunderstanding about my previous posts, I guess we are not all great communicators.

Jon Wehrenberg

04-17-2009, 01:17 PM

Larry, my remarks were no reflection on you, but on a service guy shooting from the lip. I have offered my share of lousy opinions, but I try my best to reflect it is an opinion, and I sure try to never reference a document that does not exist to bolster my claim.

As you see on this site the inmates of the asylum range from experienced owners who have become very familiar with their coaches down to potential new owners. The last thing I would want to happen is for a new owner to have made a mistake because we were a little careless with advice or information.

You are not beating a dead horse or engaging in a pissing contest because your post clarifies a refrigerator company's position on the question and is good solid information. Good job.

LarryB

04-17-2009, 02:11 PM

Thanks Jon for your comments, I agree.

Now on to my next-'on going'-projects on the bus, and I thought aircraft ownership was 'all consuming'.

Jon Wehrenberg

04-17-2009, 02:21 PM

Any time you want me to handle 100% of your bus problems let me know. All you have to do is take care of my plane.

I don't know how to determine equvalency between the bus and the plane, but last year I spent $41,000 to keep it airborne and I have no major repairs or expenses. The bus was a fraction of the cost.

I am getting quotes for an engine now. I can only imagine what this year's cost will be.

LarryB

04-17-2009, 11:45 PM

Jon, I'll stick with my Bus. You must have upgraded avionic or re-worked a prop or Landing gear. You have a P210 judging by some pix I've seen, is that correct? Pressure always cost money if for no other reason 'than it just does'.

Jon Wehrenberg

04-18-2009, 07:11 AM

There is not a penny in those costs for avionics, prop repair, or any serious repairs for that matter.

The only two systems on the plane that have not required a penny of cost (so far in 22 years) is pressurization and landing gear.

My costs include insurance, hangar, fuel, oil changes (I do them myself) annual inspection, GPS database, new tires and plugs, and an alternator replacement. Nothing big, but if anything is wrong I have it taken care of immediately, no matter how small an itrem. This year I had a few push rod tube end seals replaced and one other minor leak repaired. Anytime the shop gets the plane it is going to get expensive. But I put almost 200 hours on it.

My costs for the bus include the same things, except the hangar is my garage so that cost is not in there.

0533

04-18-2009, 10:15 AM

I am getting ready to leave my home in Florida for the summer. I have decided to turn off or down every appliance in the house that is not absolutely necessary.

Read online that if you leave your refrigerator on while away for the summer and turn your air up to 80, or even 82º while away it will make your refrigerator work at almost 30% more in an effort to overcome the outside temps. I have to believe that like any mechanical piece of equipment a refrigerator has a useful life and if required to work harder will run out the life cycle more quickly.

having said this, I leave my bus plugged in and the frig on, and increase the air temp inside to 80º, I am not thinking clearly on this subject myself.

After all a refrigerator is not running when we purchase them, have been on the floor for many months in most cases. I think it is best to turn them off, clean them carefully and make sure that dust and dirt is cleaned carefully underneath and the door is propped open.

Kevin Erion

04-18-2009, 10:36 AM

When the inside reaches the preset temp, doesn't the thing turn off on it's own?

0533

04-18-2009, 10:41 AM

For sure, it is just a thermostat, but what value would there be in raising the inside temps above a useful level for storing stuff when it would be easier to just shut down. Unless there is irrefutable evidence that leaving the unit on extends the life, than it should be turned off in my opinion.

dale farley

04-18-2009, 10:52 PM

While we were at the rally in N.C. this week, we took a drive over to our small cabin to check on the refrigerator that I said has been in use since the 50's. I ran it for a few minutes since it hasn't been turned on for over a year now, and it cooled great as always.

It probably was in someone's kitchen running continuosly at some point in its life, but it's been in the cabin for almost 30 years now, and just gets used a couple weeks each year. It is old and ugly, but still works perfectly.

0533

04-19-2009, 08:44 AM

That is a neat frig. They really do not make them the way they did back then. Just look at the shelves, real stainless, thick and well thought out, turns around. I paid over $3K for a 3 door refrigerator replacement in my bus last April, they simply do not make them as well anymore, maybe more efficient but not as well.

With all that goes into removing the old unit, getting it out the window, finding a replacement that fits, altering the space to get a high end unit back in, it makes you think about protecting the asset from premature destruction. It is a real pain to replace a 20 cubic foot frig.

I remodeled my home 4 years ago, purchased the top of the line Sub Zero and have had nothing but trouble, it has been serviced at least 5 times, the only thing that is the same is my beer inside. Last frig lasted for ever, some times the old rule applies, "if it ain't broke do not fix it"

garyde

04-19-2009, 10:01 PM

Refrigerator Stories: I once had a TrauLsen Refer side by side. It was extremely noisey, heated up the whole kitchen, sucked electricity like you woudn't believe. When I replaced it with a GE fridge, my Utility company sent me a thank you note.

rfoster

04-19-2009, 11:05 PM

Due to the recent activity or should say inactivity of the POG refrigerators, it is necessary to inform all bus owners from Georgia (Truk & Jamie) that the correct replacement is a General Electric amonia filled stand alone.

- one color fits all, does not have to be moved to clean from behind, everthing is right on top and easily accessible for service. Good news - no service required in your present lifetime.

Beats warm beer everytime.
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