Thanks Hector

[dalej]

Well after a year, I finally made me a version of the "Hector Bubbler". It works great. I have all of my air lines converted over to DOT air break push-in fittings. As you can see in the photo, I have all my air lines that are up front in the steer bay coming out of this manifold. So to check if any of the lines leak down, I just do a quick unhook and re-hook to the bubbler. I turn on valve #1 until the line is charged and then close it and open valve # 2. If there's a lot of bubbles then thats bad news.

Thanks for the idea Hector! :)

[dale farley]

Very nice job Dale. When I get everything else done on the bus and around the farm, I may try to do this also.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Now that's a beautiful thing.

You could even sell something like that:D:)

JIM

[dreamchasers]

Great!

I soldered my last version from parts I bought at Lowes. I am on version 3. My version 1 was definitely 'rough'.

Where did you get the bubbler?

I went from losing brake system (primary & secondary) air pressure within a few hours, to being able to keep my aux system pressured up using the on board air compressor. The air compressor will run twice a day now. I felt that was good enough for the girls I go with.

Simple, but effective.


Hector

[dalej]

Where did you get the bubbler?_Hector

I have an account with a distributor for Parker. So I just ordered a small oiler and changed a few things on it. It is non-returnable now.

[sawdust_128]

Very nice Dale. A couple of questions:

1. From where did you source all the DOT fittings? Parker also?

2. In the second picture, above the right end of the manifold, why did you transition to a galvanized iron fitting?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Here's a deal.........

If we can put together a group of people to refine the plumbing (I like soldered joints) I will have the sheet metal designed and made so this is a little kit that just needs an air supply hose, and the pressurized air outlet. The sheet metal will not only support the parts, but it will sit upright and stable so all the user has to do is open and close the valves and look for bubbles. We then need someone to perfect the parts list. Like the ramps we can provide the specific parts list and sheet metal for guys that want to make this tool.

I see this with not only a bubbler, but gauges so we can see the outflow pressure so we can test items with varying pressure requirements. I suspect we would not want to test the belt tensioning air bags with 130 PSI air, but we might want to test the suspension or brake systems with 130 PSI air.

If we want to get fancy we can use solenoid valves and set it up with a 120V plug so we can push buttons.

Any comments?

[dalej]

Most all of the fittings, I get from Parker if I don't have them. You can get them locally if you have a truck shop parts place. I like using the DOT series since they are made heavier, IMHO.

The Galvanized fitting is something I had at the time and haven't changed it out for brass.

[dalej]

Now your talking Jon!

[dreamchasers]

Dale,

I have found that using a regulator for controlling the air pressure for the test setup needs to be dual stage. A deviation of .1 pounds will make the 'bubbler' bubble aggressively. With a steady pressure on the test input, an accurate reading is assured. You do need a handful of fitting to connect to the air system, but it works 100%.

Jon, I used 1/2 " copper on my revision 3 and the soldered copper worked great. The test setup needs to be tight.



Hector

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Hector and Dale......I haven't got a lot of time because we are manning a booth for pilotsnpaws at the Sun N Fun fly in in lakeland FL. I am way behind on stuff around the house but if the three of us want to email back and forth I will work on the sheet metal design while you guys nail down the parts list.

I need the parts list because I will design the sheet metal to house and secure the components. As Hector says the test rig needs to be air tight so I would favor soldered joints. I know DOT stuff is good, but once a joint is soldered it is virtually permanent. I will see if the design can be made to include a template for holding the parts to be soldered, like a holding jig.

I will need specific components so I can have the mounting holes and any support dimensionally accurate to hold the parts.

Are you guys in? If we can get a bunch of these in the hands of the do-it-yourself poggers I can envision them being passed around to guys that want to trouble shoot, and I can also see us being very precise in advising exactly where to break a joint in the bus system to attach the test rig when folks are looking for advice. Now all we can do is speak in generalities, but if someone is using the rig we can say take the lower LH fitting off the 5 port valve and pressurize that line to rule out any leaks in the 3 rear LH side air bags or the three port valve. (I made that up, but that is how precise the advice can be.)

[Darrell and Linda]

Guys, I can't be the only one.... but, am I missing out on something ... duh. I haven't a clue what you guys are building.... looks interesting though.

[michaeldterry]

I don't even know enough to know what I don't know about this topic, but it sounds like your finished rig will be foolproof enough to be utilized by even a fool like me! Bottom line - put me down to purchase one of these babies when you guys are ready!

[Jon Wehrenberg]

For those who may not yet have to chase air leaks here is the simple answer to "what is it?"

Our buses have countless potential leak points for air to escape. If everything is near perfect your brake system air pressure will never drop while the bus is parked, the bus will never lean once it is leveled, and the aux air compressor may run once a day or less if the aux air system is leak free.

As the coaches age leaks develop. Leaks can be found with your ears by listening for the air escaping (fat chance of that unless it is a big leak), they may be heard by a stethoscope, by squirting a soapy bubble solution on the suspected leak areas, or by listening with an ultrasonic leak detector. There is no assurance even if every method is used a leak will be found. Folks that are POG members have spent thousands of dollars having "experts" such as Prevost seek out leaks. POG members have spent hours and hours trying to find and eliminate air leaks.

Hector (our resident wizard on systems) has developed a method of detecting leaks by connecting his test apparatus to the suspected portion of the bus and looking for bubbles of air to pass through a water filled bowl. No bubbles, no leak. The device can check the entire system, and then progressively smaller parts of the system until the actual source of the leak is isolated.

If you do not have leaks you are fortunate. Enjoy it. You will have leaks at some point and the very reason for Hector's device will become crystal clear.

[lonesome george]

This thing will need a name, how about Hecto-detecto!

[Darrell and Linda]

You guys should patent that sucker....... correct me if I'm wrong, it doesn't give you the exact location of the leak, especially with multiple leaks on the same system, primary, secondary or auxiliary. I guess you would strategically install inline air nipple connections for the test apparatus to limit the size of test areas / lines .... process of elimination.... right

[gmcbuffalo]

So this device would check leaks or backflow thru solenoids, check valve and such? It will not check for leaks in joints, bags or fittings? Right?
GregM

[adamdegraff]

I would love to get my hands on one of these. Can I buy in now before the price goes back up to pre-recession highs?

~Adam

[jimshoen]

Put me down for the kit or what ever you come up with. I did have some success with the freon detection methodn too.

[rodburtonmusic]

I have no idea how to use it...but Joe will show me!

[Joe Cannarozzi]

I understand the principal of it but not the mechanics.

If someone would like to elaborate on it I am sure I am not alone:o

I do not know how your 87 is plumbed Rod but on our chassis if I open the drain cock on the accessory tank both our brake tanks go down with it all the way to 75psi at which point they will hold if accessory air is allowed to continue to drop.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

The principle of its operation is simple.

Presume you have a leak in the front suspension. Air is "locked" in the front suspension airbags by the five port Norgren located on the rear steer compartment wall.

The air could be escaping from any number of points so to determine where, disconnect the line from the air bags at the Norgren valve and connect that line to the Hecto-matic.

Open the valve in the Hecto-matic to pressurize the air bag system. The device uses a pressure regulator so set the regulator for some value such as 80 PSI. When the pressure in the air bag system is obtained the air pressure regulator will stop admitting air.

If however, the pressure begins to fall because the leak is somewhere downstream from the five port Norgren, the pressure regulator will begin admitting air to compensate for the loss and you will see bubbles of air flow to indicate a leak. No bubbles, no leak.

Since you have seen bubbles, the next step is to continue moving downstream in the system isolating smaller and smaller parts of the system until the leak has been located. Conversely, if you wish, you could have begun the checking procedure at the parts level, and started by checking each air bag individually and then work your way backwards until you found by reconnecting parts to the system which part causes air bubbles to appear.

Do not think that this is a silver bullet. Finding leaks no matter what method is used is often tough. This device however has a real advantage in that you can start isolating where to look. On all of our coaches for example there is a single connection point that converters are to use for their auxiliary air needs. If you have aux system leaks you can connect to the air line downstream from that point to verify if the aux system leaks are on the house side, or if they are on the bus side.

The leak detection process using this becomes more orderly, still requires a lot of effort and access to points under the coach, but it really is a significant device when testing for leaks in systems that are virtually impossible to access such as pocket doors, or the front door air lock.

If I screwed up in the explaination perhaps Dale or Hector can join in. Dales device pictured does not use a pressure regulator, or at least one is not seen. That means his supply air is a regulated pressure. There must be a means of maintaining a constant pressure so as air flows to maintain that pressure it will create bubbles. The by-pass in Dale's device is so there is not a high pressure, high volume air flow through the "bubbler".

Our buses only use a limited number of fitting types and sizes so to put the Hecto-matic to work all that is required is a selection of these fitting adapters to make the desired connections easy.

[truk4u]

Perhaps a show and tell by installing your Hector-Matic to my single source hook up for aux air in the steering bay at OKC would be a good move so people understand how this functions.

The Green Machine has officially been volunteered!;)

[rfoster]

Thanks Hector and Dale J. That's great. I often thought of trying to come up with my own after hearing Hector's presentation in Sevierville, but I traded buses.

Just imagine the bubbler, Truk, A1 and Lawrence Welk. They all seem to go together.

[dalej]

The reason I set up a manifold in my steer bay (see photo at the beginning of this thread) was to isolate each of the lines of air that run to all the auxiliary items in the bus, i.e. horn, door lock, step cover, auxiliary tank, tag axle, level low, wipers, cruise control and others. You will have your own list.

When I have my bus up on the stands and let all the air out of the system. I can then charge each line and see if there is a leak somewhere in that particular line.

When I checked my auxiliary tank for instance, keep in mind that this is one of my lines, I found that the drain valve was leaking, so I tightened it and it stopped leaking.
Then you keep going through the rest of the lines and find the lines that are leaking. Then start to work on that line to see where it's leaking.

I can show some photos if anyone need more. I think that this is a very good way to at least isolate air leaks so it not so overwhelming.

I have my water filter and regulator on my air compressor so it didn't show in the photo above.

Hector had this great idea, I just went with it and you do it yourself guys should think about it.

[dalej]

A bit of follow-up,

When we were sitting in RV parks this winter. It worked out that I would have the back of the bus dropped all the way down, but the front needed to be above ride height to be level. I could have run the front tires up on blocks, but don't like to unless I have to.

On our bus it takes all of 120# of air pressure to get our front above ride height. So it will leak down faster since I have to keep the aux. tank at 120#. You probably notice the top 20 pounds comes off pretty quick (mine about 6 hours). My bus would stay level about 3 days and then I needed to start the aux. compressor and raise it back up.

So now that I'm back home, I want to see where the air was leaking. I have found three places that have made all the difference.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Like Dale I took advantage of the manifold set up. Liberty uses a manifold, but I added shut off valves. For anyone attempting to find leaks it should come as no surprise that hours and hours can be spent tracing lines and looking for leaks.

By adding valves I know if one of my house circuits has a leak without doing anything other than turning off the valves, letting the bus sit overnight, and restoring system pressure to what it originally was. Then I open the valves one at a time. If there was a leak in any of the house systems you will hear air flow through the valve as soon as you open the valve.