Guns for protection

[merle&louise]

Presently I don't carry a gun on my MH, but I am starting to think about it. We sleep in WalMart parking lots sometimes and in church parking lots on other occasions. Louise is always scared no matter where we stay even in some campgrounds. I have NEVER had one incident or even a close call where I felt I needed a gun; but this country is changing - and not for the better! So.....

How many of you carry guns in your buses for protection?

Have you ever had to use it?

Any close calls where you felt better having it?

Can you think of any disadvantages of having one?

[garyde]

Hi Tuga. On occasion, if I remember, I take my shot gun. I do not care for weapons generally speaking. I guess it boils down to personal comfort level.
I am also real cautious where I pull over and when I get out of my bus.
I also believe a person should be very competant and responsible if they carry a gun.

[phorner]

It's my opinion that I would much rather have a firearm than wish I had one.

So the answer is yes, I exercise my Second Amendment rights.

However, that does not mean that this is for everyone. Carrying a firearm is a very serious issue and comes with considerable responsibility.

If you decide to maintain a firearm in your coach or on your person, I strongly suggest an NRA safety course and regular visits to the range for practice.

[tdelorme]

We do. Jan is licensed to carry a concealed handgun and I have always carried a 12ga with a short but legal barrel. She never had any interest in firearms of any kind, until she had a very frighting experience late last year. I was not in favor of her decision to get licensed, but she has proven that she can properly handle a pistol and knows when and how to use it. I sent her to a school in Dallas to learn to shoot. Much better than my teaching her and we now shoot together for fun several times a week. Another advantage of living out in the sticks is being able to shoot at home. Our children can't believe their mother has become a shooter, but they are all amazed when they see her in action. My wife the knitter now owns two Glocks and a Ruger 380 Auto. She has equiped herself with the tools and skills necessary to protect herself if the need ever arrises and I am proud of her. She is a truely fine Texas woman.

[gmcbuffalo]

As I have heard say "the only person to protect you is yourself, the police only gets there in time to draw the outlines".
GregM

[JIM KELLER]

Tuga, I have a concealed weapons permit and always carry a firearm. I try to get to the Police Pistol Range once a month for practice. Now that we live in the woods I have my own Shooting Range for practice. In my opinion if a person is going to carry a weapon they need to be responsible and accurate.

Karen and I were in a site at a campground in Perry Ga. one time. At one o'clock in the morning a guy was knocking on our door so I got up to see what he wanted. He said we were in his spot. Said he went to the R.V. Show for the day and was back and wanted his spot. I explained we were assigned the site by the front desk and would be staying where we were. I was glad I had a firearm that night.

I also believe in the National Rifle Association. Their membership decal on the outside of a vehicle lets those who wonder if you do, know.

[Danss]

I have a concealed weapon permit but do not carry on person. I do carry on Bus.
Never had a problem camping and hope I never do. This carrys over from younger days when my type of business dictated that I protect myself.

[truk4u]

Tuga,

All good advise here, especially the training if you decide to arm your bus and/or yourself. In this day and age, I wouldn't leave the bus barn without my guns. Nancy and I both are long time Concealed Permit holders and I was a police officer for 10 years. Check with your local gun shop on the various training courses available in your area.

Most if not all states are shotgun friendly and that may be your best bet for the bus. I was even told that you can declare the shotgun (gun and ammo separated) at the Canadian border, but I have no confirmation of that. Also, each of our states have certain gun laws that you need to be aware of. Once again, I can't stress enough about the training if your not an experienced gun owner.

Just park between me and the Tool Man and your good to go!:D

[Toy Box]

Both of us wife and I have concealed permits for many years. We carry more than one weapon on board the bus at all times. We also carry while on our motorcycles. Wife had a robbery/mugging at a popular up scale shopping center years ago. Most states recognize our permits. We stop at well lit areas when traveling and have left twice when we had an uneasy feeling.

[flyu2there]

I too have a permit from Arizona however the receprocity issue must really be monitored. California does not accept any other concealed weapon permit but their own and good luck at trying to get one, thanks Ms. Pelosi! Any weapon with a clip greater than 10 rounds will get your into the stainless steel bracelets in California as well. The Northeast also has a few states with some not so pleasant gun laws!

For all of the above reasons my defender of choice is the good old 12 gauge shotgun, pretty much take it anywhere and precision aiming is not an issue. The 12 gauge shotgun is the most devastating and lethal weapon yet devised for inflicting rack and ruin at close range. A safe bet for ammunition selection is to use the 2-3/4-inch 00 buckshot load. The impact of one of these shot shells is essentially equivalent to getting hit with a nine round burst from a submachine gun. The shotgun must be skillfully aimed and fired. Aiming is just not quite as precise as that required for a handgun or autoloader to score multiple hits on an aggressor. The massive firepower of the shotgun will likely produce a favorable outcome in any self defense encounter.

[JIM KELLER]

Tuga, My 12 Ga. Shotgun of choice that I keep in the Bus is a " coach gun. " Made by Stoeger, It is actually called a Coach Gun. Invented in the Wells Fargo Stagecoach days of the 1800"s and was popular due to the short barrel. The short barrel makes it easy to transport on the Bus. A lovely gun and fun to shoot. I think Truk has seen mine. Look at it on the Internet. " Stoeger Coach Gun "

[bluevost]

Truk, and others

Shotguns in Canada ok with proper document filing and $50.00 fee. Permit good for 90 days. No pistols or long rifles unless you can proove you are going to a competition/match.

I carry a Benelli Nova pump 12 ga.. Good size for the bus, it's all black and plastic, no worries about scratching it. I hope I never have to take it out of it's place, and if I do I hope the sound of the slide action of the pump will be enough.

[GDeen]

Thats great to know on Canada - knew I couldn't take the 9mm there but a shotgun will certainly work.

Good ol Nova - rack in a 3-1/2 mag with BB load - if used in anger would probably create need for bio hazard cleaning for half the coaches in the resort but definitely a feel good to have under the bed.



Truk, and others

Shotguns in Canada ok with proper document filing and $50.00 fee. Permit good for 90 days. No pistols or long rifles unless you can proove you are going to a competition/match.

I carry a Benelli Nova pump 12 ga.. Good size for the bus, it's all black and plastic, no worries about scratching it. I hope I never have to take it out of it's place, and if I do I hope the sound of the slide action of the pump will be enough.

[Pete]

I carry a 12 ga. pump shotgun with a short pistol grip stock. It is called a "snake charmer" Is short enough that I have a vertical mount in the bedroom shirt closet to hold it. I also have a trigger lock on it for safety, with the ammo stored in another location. (just the thought of a child stumbling across it scares me) The gun is out of sight, and difficult to find if you don't know it's location.
I have been told by several police officers that just the sound of a pump shotgun being cocked will scare off 99% of thieves. So I will try that first.

[jelmore]

I know next to nothing about guns, but a good friend who does gave us a pistol when we left on our adventure. Wouldn't let us leave without it. It's a .38 5-round revolver with no safety. First shell is shot, next is solid, next two are shot, and the last is solid. He figured I ought to be able to hit something with that combination. In campgrounds, it's in my bedside drawer. In risky places, I sleep on the sofa with it close by.

I know little about gun laws either. I don't have any kind of permit and the gun isn't registered to me if it is registered at all. Going into Mexico and Canada, we've rented storage places on the US side.

What would happen in the US if we were stopped and searched by local officers?

[truk4u]

Jim,

I depends on the state. In GA you would be perfectly legal, in NY state you would get locked up!

Here's a good reference site for handgun laws:
http://www.handgunlaw.us/

[Jerry Winchester]

Got one of these in the closet;

http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/images/512209m.jpg

And one of these in the night stand;

http://www.remtek.com/arms/sig/model/226/226.gif

[lewpopp]

My brother who just passed away had the largest collection of guns in the world in his office and was a ballistic expert and I know very little about guns.

BTW, he was chief of ballistics for the FBI in Wash. Very proud of the guy.

Wish I had learned or had shown some interest in guns while we were growing up.

[phorner]

Tuga,

Just so that you know, the state of Florida will issue non-resident concealed carry permits. The Florida CCW is has reciprocity in at least 30 states.

HOWEVER, you need to check each state to see if there are restrictions regarding the issuance of a non-resident license. I hold a CCW as a Florida resident, so I'm not current on the status of non-resident CCW holders in all 30 of these states. Not every state will honor a non-resident concealed carry permit.

Oh, and Mag Safe or Hydra Shock ammo are good choices for self defense. They do a lot of damage and expend their energy quickly.

[merle&louise]

Thanks everybody for your posts. I have signed up for a concealed weapons permit class this Saturday morning. The class teaches gun safety and gun use along with actual shooting on a range. Upon completion of the class, a permit application and finger printing will register me for the permit. This permit expires every 4 years and must be renewed along with repeating the classroom time.

I feel better now that I have purchased a gun. I'm anixous to start the class and learn about gun safety and personal protection.

Hope I get to shoot somebody soon!:eek: Just kidding!

[grross]

We solved the security dilema years ago. The solution is legal in all 50 states and Canada. It has stopped bikers with bad ideas, rest area low lifes, etc. The solution... a minimum of 2 black dobermans who sit in the front seats while we sleep.

[hhoppe]

This is a very timely and important subject. You all seem to be on the right track with training and practice before handling a firearm. A very important step right now is your membership in the NRA. This step insures your right to own and posess a firearm for your protection as our fore fathers intended with the second amendment. Citizens own guns, subjects do not. There is legislation under way to prevent you from purchasing ammunition without heavy taxation and eventially not at all. Gun ownership has gone up 80% recently in respnse to the legislation. Shelves previously loaded with amunition and re-loading supplies have recently emptied out. However you all are concerned with your safety in your travels and at home and arming yourselves is the smart decision. I use guns to hunt with, target shoot with and have them for the protection of my loved ones and my LIBERTY.
The NRA is are main avenue to protecting our rights in the above legislation.

[phorner]

Harry is exactly right. As a Life member of the NRA, I strongly encourage everyone who cherishes their Second Amendment rights to belong to this organization.

It was also reported on this evenings news that, here in South Florida, gun and ammo sales are up 80% with some popular handguns impossible to find.

There is concern that the current Obama administration will make it costly, if not extremely difficult to purchase a gun and/or ammunition.

[merle&louise]

I joined the NRA last night and purchased some ammo yesterday afternoon.

I have a question about reciprocity concealed weapon laws. If 38 states have reciprocity laws what do I do with the gun when I get to California, Oregon, Nebraska, Ohio, Illinois, Maryland, Mass, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, Wisconsin, & Hawaii since these states do not recognize Louisiana's concealed weapon permits? How do I legally carry the gun?

I thought that the second amendment to the constitution gave me the right to bear arms! If it is against the law in these states to carry a concealed weapon, should I carry it in a holster on my hip instead?:eek:

[garyde]

Hi Tuga. In Idaho, you can carry a gun on your side. I wouldn't try that in California however. Some homeless citizen will steal it for its scrap value.

[Jeff Bayley]

I want to get a gun but I'm afraid my wife's Latin temper may result in my own demise one day. If I get one, I'll hide it and not reveal to her.

But here's the other issue, not with standing how the gun might help outside the bus if your stop ect. We're probably safer inside our locked buses than we are in our house in terms of anyone breaking in. We're practically in a vault. Forget about them coming in the door. Would have to break a window and have a step ladder or get a boost. So your parked, you've had plenty of time to awake to the sound of breaking glass and the attempted entry. Time to get your gun, play quiet until the guy get's all the way in (he needs to be inside if you want to walk away with a clean kill right and no legal issues right ?) and you pick him off and call the police to come take out the trash. So that scenario makes sense. But what about someone mucking about outside the bus. Trying to break into a bay, raising hell, some drunks throwing beer bottles, whatever. You go outside with the gun and hopefully scare them off unless they go ganster and whip out their own jammy and cold blast you first. What if they aren't scarred off or are too drunk to notice the gun (guess you could fire a warning shot maybe). Now their coming your way and you have to use it. "Officer, these guys were vandalizeing my bus and so I had to come out and shoot em". Not so sure if your gonna get a nod from the Cop on that one. Note to self: Keep a knife on board to put in corpses hands before Police arrive.

I read where about 80% of Police officers killed in the line of duty are killed with their own gun and these guys and trained professionals.

Having said all that, I still want a gun and someone said it's better to have it and not need it instead of wish you had one. I think I would put a laser sight on a pistol for both intimidation factor and practicality since your likely to be pointing it in the dark and need all the help you can get to hit anything other than the side of a barn unless you go shotgun way. I like the idea of the sound of the shotgun having an effect and opening the window first and making sure they can hear it allows you to stay inside and likely send them on their way. But isn't the rule, not to pull a gun unless your prepared to use it ? Plus, it can be taken from you and you've provided your own murder weapon.

Don't forget other non lethal options such as Mace, peeper sprays (they make large ones that spray farther than normal) or a Police style stun gun. The kind that shoots out with wires, not the close range ones. I think they are around $600. I want one of those also........and the gun.

[phorner]

Tuga,

DO NOT, repeat DO NOT carry a gun on your person in states that do not recognize your concealed carry license.

If you are discovered carrying in one of those state you will spend some time behind bars and pay a small fortune to an attorney to keep you from spending even more time in jail.

These states have severely restricted your Second Amendment rights and, as an "out-of-stater" may even want to make an example of you.

That being said, in those states (or jurisdictions, as the case may be) I make sure that my firearm(s) are secured within the bus. Every state has rules regarding transporting firearms within their borders and you should follow them.

There are some rabid anti-gun zealots out there and they would just love to take a bite of you...... make sure you follow the letter of the law.

[merle&louise]

Paul,

I don't plan on carrying the gun on my hip (holster) I was just trying to make a point.:) In a state where carrying a concealed weapon is illegal; what am I supposed to do with it? We plan on keeping it in the safe in MH. If I just leave it there while I am driving thru Nebraska let's say then I am breaking the laws of that state. So what am I supposed to do with the gun? I guess I should just leave it in the safe and don't tell anyone I have it.

If I am spending the night in a campground in Nebraska, and a crook breaks into my MH while we are sleeping: do I break the law if I shoot him with the gun after he enters the coach? Remember, I am not supposed to have the gun to begin with!:eek:

I found out last night by reading on Louisiana State Police website that carrying a concealed weapon in my MH is an extension of my home and that is legal without a concealed weapon permit. So maybe the states that do not have reciprocative gun laws with LA allow a person to have a gun at their home or in their MH. Don't know!

[merle&louise]

Jeff,

The mace is a great idea, we already have some. Karen keeps it in her purse!
You bring up an interesting point about how crooks could gain access to the inside of the MH. True, most MH have 2 deadblots on the entrance door and entering thru the windows would be impractical without a ladder. However, I envision someone knocking on the door during the middle of the night and saying "There is some oil dripping out of your MH" or "someone broke in one of your bays". This would be done to entice you to come outside so the crook could gain access inside the coach. Some crooks are smarter than others:rolleyes:

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Tuga if you go to the NRA website they will tell you exactly what states have what requirements for out of state-rs, traveling through.

Some you can have it within reach some you can not. Some allow you to have it loaded some not. Some allow the glove box some insist on the trunk. Some require the ammo be in a different location. It is ridiculous. You will get a real education and the correct skinny there.

I saw an article on this subject in a truckers publication some time back.

I do know this. There is only 3 ways a cop can LAWFULLY enter your motor home. If he SEES something illegal, if you allow it or if you are being arrested. So if you are not breaking the law in any other manner one could conceal it and if asked just deny. Because of the WIDE range of requirements from state to state I am sure there are MANY out there who exercise this method.

[Orren Zook]

For anyone interested in concealed carry, here's a link to a web site that provides reciprocity (and other) information: http://www.carryconcealed.net/

[merle&louise]

Joe & Orren,

Thanks for the input and the website addresses. I'll just keep it in the safe with the ammo. I'm looking forward to the class Saturday!

[phorner]

Another good website

http://www.usconcealedcarry.com/10/index.html

[bluevost]

Some years ago I attended a firearms seminar at Escapees Escapade in Lancaster, CA. The gent who gave the seminar was a retired Penn. Trooper, lifetime member of NRA, etc. The one thing I remember to this day from that seminar is that if you have to use a gun, and you kill someone, the only thing you say to anyone is "I was in fear of great bodily harm or even death". Don't say anything more or less until your attorney arrives.

[hhoppe]

It's great to see the awakening of our group to the new proposed controls the lefties have in store for us.

Subject: Fw: GUN CONTROL



Read and think of what happened in Nazi Germany, USSR, etc.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pl ease send this to everybody on your list
Have you got this in your scope?

Very Important for you to be aware of a new bill HR 45 introduced into the House.
This is the Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sale Act of 2009.

We just learned yesterday about this on the Peter Boyles radio program.

Even gun shop owners didn't know about this because it is flying under the radar.

To find out about this - go to any government website and type in HR 45 or Google HR 45 Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sales Act of 2009. You will get all the information.

Basically this would make it illegal to own a firearm - any rifle with a clip or ANY pistol unless:

•It is registered

•You are fingerprinted

•You supply a current Driver's License

•You supply your Social Security #

•You will submit to a physical & mental evaluation at any time of their choosing

•Each update - change or ownership through private or public sale must be reported and costs $25 - Failure to do so you automatically lose the right to own a firearm and are subject up to a year in jail.

•There is a child provision clause on page 16 section 305 stating a child-access provision. Gun must be locked and inaccess ible to any child under 18.

They would have the right to come and inspect that you are storing your gun safely away from accessibility to children and fine is punishable for up to 5 yrs. in prison.

If you think this is a joke - go to the website and take your pick of many options to read this. It is long and lengthy. But, more and more people are becoming aware of this. Pass the word along. Any hunters in your family - pass this along.

Peter Boyles is on this and having guests. Listen to him on KHOW 630 a.m. in the morning. He suggests the best way to fight this is to tell all your friends about it and "spring into action". Also he suggests we all join a pro-gun group like the Colorado Rifle Association, hunting associations, gun clubs and especially the NRA.

This is just a "termite" approach to com plete confiscation of guns and disarming of our society to the point we have no defense - chip away a little here and there until the goal is accomplished before any one realizes it.

This is one to act on whether you own a gun or not.

If you take my gun, only the criminal will have one to use against me. HR 45 only makes me/us less safe. After working with convicts for 26 years I know this bill, if passed, would make them happy and in less danger from their victims.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.45:

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h45/show

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-45

Please... copy and send this out to EVERYONE in the USA .

Forgive me for taking up so much space on the forum with this subject.

[tdelorme]

Some years ago I attended a firearms seminar at Escapees Escapade in Lancaster, CA. The gent who gave the seminar was a retired Penn. Trooper, lifetime member of NRA, etc. The one thing I remember to this day from that seminar is that if you have to use a gun, and you kill someone, the only thing you say to anyone is "I was in fear of great bodily harm or even death". Don't say anything more or less until your attorney arrives.

Ken, that is exactly what Jan was taught in the class she took in Dallas. "I was afraid I was going to be killed." "I want to cooperate with the police and will tell you exactly what happened when my attorney arrives." Nothing more, even if threatened with being taken to jail. Anyone needs time to think through such a situation and ten minuets after a shooting is not the time to be giving law enforcement a statement.

Tuga, you will also learn that pulling the trigger is the last thing you want to do. You will be taught several things to say to an attacker if there is time. "I have a gun and I will shoot you" is first. "If you don't stop, I will shoot you" is another.
I do not ever want to shoot someone. I will do everything possible to avoid that happening. If, however, I am in a situation where I think there is nothing else I can do, to avoid being harmed, I will shoot and kill the attacker.

[phorner]

We were advised in the CCW class that I took that if you shoot someone, you will in effect fight for your life 3 times.

The first time is when you shoot someone because your life is in danger.

The second time is when you fight for your freedom as you deal with the prosecutor who may want to see you behind bars for the rest of your life.

And the third time is when you fight for your financial "life" dealing with civil lawsuits filed by the family of the fine up-standing young person, a pillar of the community, who's life you just tragically cut short and they now have no one to support them.

Avoid pulling that trigger unless there is absolutely no alternative.

[merle&louise]

Anybody want to buy a gun?:eek:

Just kidding. I realize that pulling the trigger is the last thing I want to do; believe me I do not want to harm anyone. But if my life/Louise's life is threatened I will protect myself while following the procedures outlined in the gun safety class.

I have NEVER been in a situation where I wish that I had a gun, and I have traveled extensively. There is no substitute for common sense. I am sure that I will learn safety and proper procedures in this NRA class.

I would like to ask the same question that I asked at the beginning of this thread: Have any of you been in a situation where you felt you needed a gun? If so, what were the circumstances?

[BrianE]

Tuga, I was married to this woman a long time ago............:eek:

[jack14r]

I must have been married to her sister!

[garyde]

Tuga if you go to the NRA website they will tell you exactly what states have what requirements for out of state-rs, traveling through.

Some you can have it within reach some you can not. Some allow you to have it loaded some not. Some allow the glove box some insist on the trunk. Some require the ammo be in a different location. It is ridiculous. You will get a real education and the correct skinny there.

I saw an article on this subject in a truckers publication some time back.

I do know this. There is only 3 ways a cop can LAWFULLY enter your motor home. If he SEES something illegal, if you allow it or if you are being arrested. So if you are not breaking the law in any other manner one could conceal it and if asked just deny. Because of the WIDE range of requirements from state to state I am sure there are MANY out there who exercise this method.

One exception to those 3 ways Joe, at a border crossing. They can come in and search w/o asking , and w/o a warrent or a crime. Just because they can.

[phorner]

Tuga,

Only once did I feel more secure carrying my gun.

In an area that I was not familiar with, I pulled my car into a bank drive thru ATM lane. There was one car ahead of me. A moment or two later, a crappy looking car pulled in behind me.

To my right, immediately adjacent to the ATM lane, was a shallow drainage swale, a couple of sparse trees and then another parking lot, mostly abandoned.

About this time a car, driven by someone looking like a gang member, pulled into the empty parking lot and backed up to the edge of the pavement adjacent to the ATM lane. So, I'm thinking, what possible reason could this guy have to park HERE. There is nothing in the parking lot where he is, yet he is positioned for a quick departure.

And I'm blocked in the ATM lane. A perfect target.

As this unfolds and these thoughts are running through my mind, for the first (and so far only) time in my life my instincts told me reach under my shirt and place my hand on my gun, while keeping an eye on the movements of the suspicous guy and the crappy car that had pulled in behind me. Could he have been part of this? Who knows.

BUT.... nothing came of this situation. Gangster guy on my right stayed in position for a minute or so then left. The car ahead of me transacted his business and left. I released my grip on my gun and everything went as planned.

So, long story short..... I did not need my gun that day, but I'm sure glad I had it. It also taught me just how quickly events can unfold that may put you in a bad situation.

[merle&louise]

That's a good story Paul. I'm glad you discussed it in detail because I was planning to keep the pistol unloaded in the safe of the MH. But as I read your post, I might be better served by keeping it loaded and close by.

Did you keep it in a holster inside your shirt?

[lewpopp]

I guess we should stay away from the edge of the road as you pass by at ORA. WOW!!!

[jello_jeep]

You guys are all on the right page, if you are not already a shooter, get edu-ma-cated, make in intelligent choice of hardware, and remain armed.

Harry hit it too, join the NRA and support them.

A friend of mine back in the seventies, was on 395N between Ridgecrest and 14 (desert middle of nothing) running late at night. He was driving a pick up and towing a small travel trailer. He was in his sixties and accompanied by his wife

He came upon a roadblock and slowed down as he had no choice, as he got closer the cars/bikes blocking the road were not Police type vehicles. He reached under the seat and pulled out his trusty S/W model 19 .357 Magnum and had it in his lap.

Bikenasty dude comes to his window and tells them both to get out of the truck, whilst brandishing a knife and smiling.

He cocks the pistol and puts it in the bikeboy's face and tells him what a nice knife that is, and has him drop it.

He then collected ID from all indigenous recalcitrants involved and tells them that they can pick them up at the Sheriff's Office in Lone Pine.

Not a shot fired, but you can bet if he hadn't been armed they would have both likely been killed.

We do need to start protecting our 2nd amendment rights with vigor. I don't think you need to be a supreme court judge to understand what it says, and what it means.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

It was not by chance that it is the 2nd amendment only proceeded by the freedom of speech.

For sure it is there because it occupies its correct spot relative to its importance.

This one will make some want to cry.

When my nephews father passed away he inherited all his fathers weapons. He had them safely stored in a safe at home. Many were antiques.

He lives on the other side of the tracks, in Chicago and all residents are banned from having guns and that was illegal.

During a domestic dispute (with his now ex-wife) his piece of %#@$ mother-in law informed the police he had a safe full of firearms, locked in the back room probably not opened in weeks. Even though none were ever a part of the dispute in any way the police took them all and they ended up being melted down.

Their value, priceless. No different than asking my wife to surrender her mothers wedding ring never to be returned.

[phorner]

Joe,

That is a sad story indeed. It's a very clear example of what can happen when government intrudes on individual lives and tramples on our constitutional rights.

Very similar to the unlawful confiscation of firearms in New Orleans following katrina..... which resulted in a successful lawsuit initiated by the NRA to insure that such a confiscation of legally-owned firearms will never occur again.

But that doesn't help the thousands of individuals that lost their guns during this fiasco.

[rfoster]

Warren/ Tuga

Congrats Tuga, you are a Great American.

Warren: Thanks for the story of your friend being held up by dummies bringing a knife to a gun fight. That was great ending to a very serious situation.

I doubt the outcome would have been the same if he was carrying a rock.

I love the feel of cold hard steel with a trigger on it.

I appreciate all the comments but my gun is loaded and if it was not, well I had just soon have a rock.

[Orren Zook]

For anyone interested in CCW, here's another web site that is loaded with information: http://www.usconcealedcarry.com/public/main.cfm

[rfoster]

Warren/ Tuga

Congrats Tuga, you are a Great American.

Warren: Thanks for the story of your friend being held up by dummies bringing a knife to a gun fight. That was great ending to a very serious situation.

I doubt the outcome would have been the same if he was carrying a rock.

I love the feel of cold hard steel with a trigger on it.

I appreciate all the comments but my gun is loaded and if it was not, well I had just soon have a rock.

[flyu2there]

Has anyone else noticed the lack of ammunition available on the shelves?

Lots of 22 long rifle and 12 gauge with bird shot loads...but the rest of it..gone!

[phorner]

Yep, I've noticed.

Luckily, I have some ammo in reserve....

[tdelorme]

Sporting goods stores and WalMarts are all short of pistol ammo. Available from several online sources including:

http://gunbroker.com/
http://www.northwestshootersupply.com/
http://www.rrarms.com/

There is a seller on Gunbroker.com in Stillwater, OK that has the best prices currently on several calibers of pistol ammo. Search for Ammunitioncenter as a seller.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Went to Walmart yesterday and confirm they had nothing. Went on to Gander Mountain and was not able to get buck shot for the .410 Judge nor for the 12g Rem 870 pump. :(
Was able though to get a few boxes ea of 45 colt, 44 mag, and 38 S&W spec.
Got raped on the price, 44s were $39.00/box:eek:

Here's something good to read Tuga, it goes along with what Jeff Bayley said, and what I believe.

http://www.maritimesecurity.com/gunsonboard.htm


JIM

[flyu2there]

So I guess the question remains, where did it all go??

Remington and Winchester putting serial numbers on them now or in the process of re-tooling to do so??? Just a thought...

[jello_jeep]

Had he been un-armed, I think the worst feeling would have been realizing as it was going down, that you had failed in your duty to protect your family (wife).

Keep up the good work Roger!


Warren/ Tuga

Congrats Tuga, you are a Great American.

Warren: Thanks for the story of your friend being held up by dummies bringing a knife to a gun fight. That was great ending to a very serious situation.

[Jeff Bayley]

I took the time to read that entire article Jim referenced. Good stuff, thanks.

I'm ready to buy two 12 gauge shotguns. One for the bus and one for the house. I like to buy everything used and I'm a Craig's List freak but I don't think they allow people to sell guns there. But prostitution remains alive and well there...(you know......I mean I've heard).

I found a Gun Show directory that shows where all the gun shows are in the country and suppose this would be decent place to shop. I don't even know how much I'll need to spend for a good one but I'm open to suggestions. Obviously I should look for one with a shorter barrel for the bus. I don't know what the legal limit for shortness is but I recall the article Jim posted the link to, they suggested 18" for marine use.

Hey, if we pull the windshield rally off, the old windshields would make fun target practice but the Texas store is probably the only one that wouldn't call the police on us.

[Orren Zook]

Jeff, take a look at www.gunbroker.com to get an idea of what is available and what a realistic price would be. Dealers are required to do a background check at the time of sale - at the shows here in Ohio we can buy or sell among private individuals with just a check of a valid ID (ie driver license no background check) to see if the purchaser is from Ohio. Maybe it's the same at the shows in Florida or other states.

[phorner]

Looks like ammo would have been quite a good investment.

What little 9mm ammunition one of the local gun shops had on hand (a whopping 4 boxes of Winchester FMJ) was priced at $22.00/box of 50.

And you can forget about .380 auto.

I'm hoping to make a few bucks at the next gun show...:D

[merle&louise]

What do you guys think of a 22 cal pistol? That is what I purchased because it was easy to target practice with and the ammo was inexpensive. I think 50 rounds cost $1.95 at WalMart. Another advantage is if the pistol is confiscated by law enforcement I'm only out about $300:)

A friend recommended keeping a 10 round clip filled with "stinger" bullets. And just use the regular 22 bullets for target practice. Another advantage is that Louise will feel more comfortable firing a low caliber gun as opposed to a 44 MAGNUM! I want her to feel comfortable and at ease.

I would like to hear your opinions.

[phorner]

Tuga,

A 22 can be fun to plink around with, and surely is cheap to shoot, but I would not depend on it to save my life.

At a minimum, a personal defense hand gun needs to be a .38 calibre.

There are several high quality guns chambered for .38 special or .380 auto.

Perhaps you should visit a range where you can try out several guns. Try a revolver vs an auto and see which feels more accurate to you. Try different calibres and see how they feel.

[Jerry Winchester]

Tuga,

I'm with Paul. You shoot someone with a 22 and they get pissed off and come whip your a$$. Not good.

[Denny]

To best answer your question, look at the history of law enforcement weapons. Many years ago the 38 was the choice of most police departments. Then came the 38 special which evolved into the 357 magnum. Then the semi automatics came on to the scene and and the 9mm was the most popular.

After many shootouts in which the good guys were carrying the 9mm and the bad guys were not stopped immediately, there was a movement to go to a more powerful cartridge. The FBI did extensive research and decided that the 40S&W was the round to use. That is now one of the most popular rounds used by law enforcement. During all this time thought, many of the elite forces were carrying the infallible 45 which was the major US military sidearm for many years. This was a single action pistol. There now is a multitude of double action gun available in all calibers and this style is the most popular for the average person who does not do a lot of shooting.

If the 22 were a real good bad guy stopper then most law enforcement agencies would use it just from the cost factor. But they don't. The 22 is not adequate in a gun fight. You never take a knife to a gun fight and the 22 is one step above a knife!

My favorite is the 1911 45.

[tdelorme]

Jim C. made mention of this hand gun several days ago. If I were a new shooter looking for a firearm to carry in my bus, The Judge would be at the top of my list.
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=125661370
http://www.holsters-and-more.com/images/taurus_judge.jpg

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Tuga, you need bullet mass to get the job done. Knock down power.

22 not good for self defense!

If you want a hand gun, I recommend the taurus in the following link. You would load it 410 buck shot alternating with 45 cal.
The model chambered for 2.5 in shells is adequate and cheaper, there is however a new model in 3.00 in.
The recoil is minimal and has a soft comfortable grip.
I have the 2.5.

http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=199&category=Revolver

If you want a shotgun I recommend the Renington 870 Express synthetic folding stock. Very well made and proved in service for many years. Not overly expensive either. When I bought mine, I was told that this gun is legal in all states and is considered a sporting armament even if it does appear to be at first sight. Use buck shot also.
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/special_runs/past_special_runs/model_870_express_synthetic_folding_stock.asp

I agree with Denny, that the venerable model 1911 in 45 cal is also an excellent choice.

JIM

[jelmore]

If you want a hand gun, I recommend the taurus in the following link. You would load it 410 buck shot alternating with 45 cal.
The model chambered for 2.5 in shells is adequate and cheaper, there is however a new model in 3.00 in.
The recoil is minimal and has a soft comfortable grip.
I have the 2.5.

We have the Taurus .38 special loaded similarly. Really should get some practice in.

[merle&louise]

Thanks for the replies, looks like I need a gun with more knock down power. The gun I purchased is a Walther P22 semi automatic with a 10 round clip.

What is the difference in a "stinger" load and a regular 22 cal load? Does it have more powder or more lead or both?

Denny,

You bring up a very good point; look at what law enforcement uses! I think I will be buying a new gun and will use this one for target practice.

[flyu2there]

While I still believe that a good old 12 gauge with double ought buck is the best self defense weapon around anywhere, if you must carry a pistol get one that is easy to handle and get some training and lots of time at the range.

Understanding that bullet mass is important, it is more important to be accurate and the bigger the projectile the less accurate you will be, especially as a novice. The 22 target pistol will do the job, especially if you really know how to use it. Personally I have a S&W 9mm M and P that is fairly easy to learn and shoot with accuracy and a Sig Sauer P220/45 which is a handful and a bit more challenging to shoot accurately. Big caliber short barrelled weapons are the worst for comfort and accuracy, try a Glock 45 should you want a graphic demonstration.

Should you choose to upgrade, I would recommend a name brand (Smith/Wesson, Colt, etc.) and a weapon that is still in production. These guns all need some maintenance and all need routine cleaning, if you lose a spring or screw out of an out of production weapon you may play hell trying to find another.

While the Gun Broker is a very good resource, I would advise against buying anything from that source unless you are very familiar with the weapon offered. Go to your local gun dealer and find something that you like and is comfortable to handle, to disassemble, and to shoot....then and only then it is safe to go to the Gun Broker.

[gmcbuffalo]

As flyu2 said a 22 will get the job done if you have the cool to be accurate, ie head shots.

Todays criminals are most likely trying to get money to drugs, so they can be hard to shot. This where mass comes into play. The Colt m1911 45 cal was adopted by the US Army because it spot a drug crazy HUD in the Phillipines.

The other thing have you every heard of a police shooting where they didn't empty the magazine into the Perp? They practice and they also need more than one shot.

If I was going to add one more handgun to my collection it would be the "Judge", 410 shot for two legged snakes and no leg snakes, plus a 44 cal round for stopping power.
GregM

[FLY-N-LOW]

I agree with the GMC BUFFALO

the Judge is a nice piece of metal to have
and it will take some stuff right out. Good weapon of Choice for the Bus on the Road Trips along with a Back up Handgun, I prefer 40 to 45 cal range though, and with lots of Range time getting off accurate shots isnt a problem.

I have a small arsenal of personal weapons, and find most of the comments here to be true to some degree, but they all depend on the exact situation
one is confronted with at the time.

I keep an 8 round Double Buckshot 12 ga. pump on my side of the bed along with a .40 cal in the headboard with 15 rounds and a spare clip ...

The Ruger 10/22 semi auto is fun, cheap to shoot and will take out a few things in the front yard, and if that dont work the AR-15 ( Colt L.E. 6920 L.E. ) will.. any further out than this and out comes the 30-06 or 7mm ...

If you want to see the Judge in action google it and watch the video as it is pretty impressive...

If you want ultimate indoor protection, look at the Beretta Extrema II 12 ga. shotgun, it will unleash 12 rounds in under 1.75 seconds..google it and check out the video... now after watching the video imagine having either slugs or Double 00 Buck shot in it...this works well for the Car Load of Would be Thieves that show up in the middle of your drive way in the middle of the night ... 12 rounds of buck shot will not only take out the occupants of the vehicle but will take out the vehicle as well ...

The Judge is just the right size to have in the Bus and will provide that comfort zone for those of us traveling in the Buses with coverage to spare.

Good luck with your choices and Remember to Protect your Second Amendment Right ...

If you think finding common ammo is difficult, then dont look for any Semi-Auto Stuff or even Auto stuff....

One source you may want to check with on AMMO is GT Distributors they have a store in Austin, TX and Chattanooga, TN and sell mostly to Law Enforcement but will sell to the public, they carry a nice line of weapons and ammo for very very good prices... google them and check out their web site.

Stay Safe & Enjoy ! ;)

[Jim Skiff]

Official POG Security Detail

[phorner]

There's been a lot of mention of the .410 Judge..... great choice but try to find one! My local shop said that there are more than 100,000 on back order!

Anyway, Tuga,

Shot placement is of primary concern. A large bullet does no good if it misses it's target and has the potential to do great harm.

A .40 or .45 can be difficult to control for a novice, and especially if you want a barrel length short enough for easy concealed carry.

Find a range that will let you rent several hand guns to try out. You want to feel comfortable and accurate.

I carry a Kahr K9 9mm. It fits nicely in my hand and is very accurate and reliable. I will sometimes carry a Kel-Tec P3AT .380 auto. This gun is very concealable but can be a bit of a challenge to shoot. Up close and personal is still no problem, though.

I also have a Browning BDM in 9mm. Another very comfortable and accurate gun but much more difficult to conceal.

My advice is to take the time to find the right combination for your intended carry and ability to shoot comfortably and accurately.

One of my friends presented me with a "congratulations on your bus house-warming gift"....... an M1 Carbine......much better than a bottle of wine!

[JIM KELLER]

Tuga, Let Karen shoot the 22 and get use to a firearm but get yourself a real gun !

I have owned a Judge for some time now and enjoy shooting it. The 410 cartridge swells a little after discharge and you have to pull them out but that would be "after the fact. " The recoil is not bad because it is a well balanced firearm with a nice grip. If I mix up the bullets, some 410 and some 45 I can't tell the difference in the recoil. I understand Crimson Trace just came out with a laser grip and I want one.

Now that I'm thinking about it didn't I show you my little 38 special with the laser at Titisville ? That might be something for you and Karen to consider.

[hhoppe]

Boys and their toys. I have a 454 casull, 45 long Colt Ruger revolver, 45 Auto 1911 but these I can use. I leave Shirley with a 38 Spcl. Colt Navy double action revolver. Double action is easy to use quick. No safety to find, no hammer to cock, no heavy sprung slide to pull back to load. Just point and squeze the trigger. The 38Spcl. is not large and scary caliber to shoot for women. Practice can be done with standard 38 bullets and 38 Specl. can be left in for effect. There are a lot of 44 magnum revolvers available for purchase cheaper mainly because people buy them and find they kick like a mule and get rid of them. They can be downloaded to standard 44 loads and be a comfortable load to use for everyday target practice. In defense the lighter loads will do the trick, just keep pulling the trigger. Any questions email me.

[Ray Davis]

So when I was at the recent Comdex show in Vegas I stopped by the both that sells tasers for protection.

I'm just curious on the thoughts on that approach?


Ray

[merle&louise]

Ray,

The more I read about people involved with guns during an altercation the more I am skeptical about using one. I was told in the NRA class that if I fire the gun I should get ready to be:
1. Questioned by local law enforcement (instructor advised not talking until my attorney arrives). He also suggested having a good defense attorney's cell phone number stored in my cell phone.
2. More than likely be brought down to the police station and arrested
3. Get ready for a law suit and get read to spend a great deal of money defending myself.

Maybe that taser is a good idea!

[phorner]

You were well advised in your NRA class.

Remember my post regarding fighting for your life 3 times?

[Ray Davis]

I couldn't actually see a taser in action at the show, I guess demonstrations have been banned now for the last several years.

Here's the website. I have no idea if this is a reasonable alternative, but it might be. There are a few videos at this site, which might be worth watching.

http://www.taserontv.com/

Ray

[FLY-N-LOW]

Nice comments and info here...

I still stand my ground on the second amendment right to keep and bear arms and protect myself, my family and my lively hood.. as well our country.

The weapon used to defends one's self in a given situation is all in the present situation you may be faced with or find yourself in the middle of and no two are usually ever alike. this is where the short order decision making comes to life...

If you can use a Tazer or a Stun Gun, Great you can save your lead and all the questions and intimidation's downtown... however those would be criminals I am reading about these days usually have some sort of weapon during their crime they are wishing to pull off... without one most of them would not have a chance, and weapons on the black market or easy to get and quicker than the process for us legal gun owners..

So don't bring a Knife to a Gun Fight or a Tazer or Stun Gun... I have to tell you if one of the Drug crazed or Criminal idiots comes at me with or without a weapon wishing for trouble then they will get it... I may have to go down town and let them try their intimidation games and ask all the questions... but then again hopefully I will be the one who is still alive to tell the story as to why I had to do what I had to do to defend myself or my family and I dont have a problem with that...neither does my 2nd Amendment Right.

Trust me the Criminals do not care about any of us for one second, and I got to tell you my feeling on defending myself and my family is of Greater mutal interest than theirs.

your either a well informed, and experienced individual and can make good judgment calls in short order or your a victim... I have not yet met any folks in between the two classes here...

The main part here is having the weapon that works best for yourself and knowing the Rules about carrying your weapon on the road in the confines of your Bus, when to use and when not to use it... Normally it is my experience that when you have some one staring down the barrel of a Weapon of any choice they will usually do as you request or run like hell to get away from you.. you can hopefully hold them at Gun Point till Law Enforcement arrives.

Just my personal opinion on the matter !

The thing to do is really stay current with the use of your weapon of choice that means a few times a month get it out and shoot it at the range and learn to become accurate with it...

[Jon Wehrenberg]

We have weapons on board and I will do everything to avoid using one. However I sense the testosterone is flowing like sap in the spring and while everybody is talking about the force of bullets I wonder why nobody is even acknowledging the most powerful defense mechanism we all have.

We have 46,000 pounds of escape mechanism. If someone is threatening me I will turn the key and drive away. I don't care if I have to push a car out of my path or rip out the sewer, water and electric lines. I will first drive away before I consider shooting someone.

BTW, we never leave the front door unlocked so anyone threatening us has to get through a window to get access to us. Anyone tried to climb through a windshield lately?

[FLY-N-LOW]

Jon,

your absolutely right... turn the Key and step on the Juice .. that would hopefully avoid a conflict..Take out the Infrastructure and whatever else might be in the way...

I would not want to have to shoot anyone either really, but then again I am not a objector either, if it is me or them ... Then Im sorry for your Luck as the Chinese say !

reverts back to the Military training thing I suppose... as that's the way what my uncle Sam taught me back then... modern warfare has now become Urban warfare and most all of it is not on a battle field anymore ... what most folks dont even realize is that more murders happened in this country killing lots of innocent folks more so than during the Iraq war to date of our Vet's and we see those numbers daily, multiply that by 3 or 4 times and that's whats happening on the home front.


What all you got in that Bus ? 46,000 Lbs is a lot of Stuff onboard Im thinking ? You must have one of Those Over Weight Challenged Elegant Ladies .... ha ha ha ha ha .. Just Kidding with you...

I am going to hit the scales with the machine before long as I have not done that yet since purchasing a few weeks ago now and I suspected she only weighed in about 28K or so.. have you ever used the "CAT" scales at the Truck stops ? I am told they are calibrated and do a good job ?

now as far as Climbing through Windshields, It's like smoking if you ask me and I have been trying to quit for sometime now...climbing through Windshields that is... that safety glass is pretty stuff to get through and the side windows ..well that's another story, these short legs are doing well to make the Entry Steps ...

I am thinking that the Bufford Pusser approach works good also, Walk soft but carry a Big Stick ! ;)

[merle&louise]

We have 46,000 pounds of escape mechanism. If someone is threatening me I will turn the key and drive away. I don't care if I have to push a car out of my path or rip out the sewer, water and electric lines. I will first drive away before I consider shooting someone.

That's one advantage of not having slides!:D

[michaeldterry]

We have 46,000 pounds of escape mechanism. If someone is threatening me I will turn the key and drive away. I don't care if I have to push a car out of my path or rip out the sewer, water and electric lines. I will first drive away before I consider shooting someone.



Excellent point, Jon! This happens to be my primary choice of defense response as well! And if the perp just happens to be a slow mover when I start rolling - oh well, sucks to be him! :rolleyes:

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I can't tell if on the few instances we have driven away if we were in physical danger or not, but there have been times when we felt uncomfortable with the people around us or the situation and we just started up and drove away.

Remember I prefer preventive maintenance and I apply the same thinking to my safety. I would far more prefer to move away when there was no need than to wait for something to reach a point when I have to start thinking about the use of a weapon. And my first weapon of choice is the bus.

FLY-N-LOW.......your bus weighs about 41,000 pounds and is 40 feet long. Mine is 45 feet long. Can you guess my bus weight? When you visit the CAT scale get a weight for each axle. You need that information so you can use the proper inflation pressures for the tires. 28,000 might be the weight of the empty shell. You will have close to that on the drive and tag axles.

[Jeff Bayley]

I don't know if I got this link from POG a few months ago or if it came to my inbox from elsewhere but this is a must see whether you have a gun or not. Amazing no matter who you are. Check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4ebtj1jR7c

[Orren Zook]

I stopped by a local gun store today to leave a couple of items on consignment - he has several 3" Taurus Judges in stock - these were chambered for 2 1/2". He says the 3" chamber is the one that's hard to find.... anyway the web site is: www.expertoutfitters.com phone is 330-965-9620

[FLY-N-LOW]

Hi Jon,

I agree with you on the Drive off from the scene approach, but inline with my previous comment about the Situation and situational awareness is the key to all of it I suppose.. can you get out of the situation by starting up the bus and do you have the time required to get it in gear and get gone...??

if you can thats great, if not .. Oh well

Thats the Fifty Dollar Question that hopefully none of us really want to know the answer to... and I hope it does'nt happen to anyone, but being Legally armed is the Best Advantage when weighing out the options.

Preventive maintenance is a beautiful thing in certain cases. as the old saying goes an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

I like the old Boy Scout moto also always be Prepared ! Expect the worst and hope for the best .. Dry Matches and Clean Socks .. ya-Hoo has taken me pretty far in life now.

In regards to bus weight if my bus being 40 feet long is basically a 1000 lb per foot then I would guess your bus to be between 45-46 k .. i think you had mentioned in your previous line it was 46K though...

Ok on the CAT scales, I will have each axle read for the weight so that I can ensure I am with the proper tire inflation pressures...

the previous owner stated that he had been running 100 P.S.I. in all the tires and it has all Brand new Rubber ( Firestones ) on the Drive and Tag Axles as well the Steers are at 95% Michelin's ...

Is there a Chart for Recommended Tire Inflation pressures to Weight Ratios on the POG here ? I will appreciate your additional comments.

Have you ever run Dry Air Nitrogen in your tires ?

[garyde]

Official POG Security Detail










God help us!

[Ray Davis]

Is there a Chart for Recommended Tire Inflation pressures to Weight Ratios on the POG here

Tom, this page has several links to tires, tire products, and proper inflation charts.

http://www.michelinrvtires.com/michelinrv/toolbox/reference-material.jsp

Ray

[FLY-N-LOW]

Hi Ray,

Outstanding piece of Information and from the Best in the Business none the less. Hard to beat them Michelin's ..

Thank you very much for sharing this with me.. I have always been very particular about my tires on all the machines I have , after all that is what gets us there and without them you don't get far.

I have printed this document off and read it from start to finish now and it is worth its weight in gold, I will keep the Printed copy now in my Bus Bible as I call it for future references.

I look forward to getting the bus weighed soon and see how the numbers fair out and how the actual tire pressure to weight ratio works out.

Everyone should have a copy of this information handy.

Thanks Again Ray much appreciated ! ;)

[Jon Wehrenberg]

FLY-IN-LOW..........95% rubber is meaningless on coaches.

You are unlikely to wear the tread off tires. The key is the date of installation plus the date of manufacture.

No manufacturer will honor any warranty after six years from installation or 10 years from the manufature date. The sidewall checking or cracking defines when the tire is beyond safe use. There is a ton of information on the internet about tire life. There is also pages of information from this site which you can find with a search.

Michelin may be expensive, but unless you know something we don't know I doubt if I would claim them to be the best. Joe, our Chicago representative on washing with gasoline has worn out more tires than most of us and I expect he will voice an opinion on tires.

[FLY-N-LOW]

Hi Jon,

I suppose your correct for most the members coaches, this coach was not purchased to become a Hangar Queen are placed on a parking spot at an RV park for an extended period of time, this coach along with my 1970 Eagle model 10 are used in the line of business, I travel as a Commercial Aircraft Maint & Engineering Representative all over north America and and the Globe weekly and have a Crew that works for me doing various work at various locations.

So I do expect to see wear on my tires and a few other items and will consider it routine for my nature of the usage of the machine.

I have had the opportunity to visit most the major tire Mfg's here in North America inline with the Aircraft Tires and was able to see various Tire engineering details along with the mfg process of the tires and the Quality Control of such production and these plants also mfg other tires as well and I was able to catch a glimpse of that also, and I like what I seen at the Michelin facility..but its a matter of opinion and what works best for one I suppose based on what most folks have access to and the like. I can tell you that most large commercial aircraft operators utilize Michelin tires on the aircraft and they are far more expensive than a bus tires, not sure if your aware of what happens when an Aircraft tire is filled with Compressed air and know the science on that matter but they explode due to the methane gas that is generated due to the heat expansion, and when they are retracted into a wheel well after rotation the heat continues to build until they explode and create additional damages to the airframe of an aircraft, thus the reason no regular compressed air is allowed for use in these tires, the aircraft tires are filled with Dry air nitrogen via a low pressure regulator to the recommended Mfg Tire pressure, even if one landing gear is heavier or lighter than the other. Dry Air Nitrogen does not vary with changes in Temperature
and remains stable and has very minimal to no moisture in it, so I like to service all my vehicle tires with Dry Air Nitrogen here at the Shop Facility cause unlike the normal checking and rechecking and servicing of tire pressures during seasonal changes with the varying temperatures outside it pretty much eliminates this and keeps the tire at a consistent pressure which is a Key to long life of the tire as well.. you will be very surprised at how often you don't have to add air to your tires after servicing them with Nitrogen and it is completely safe thus the reason the commercial airliners use it .. I did'nt say it was cheap, when were talking rigs of this class if I have to worry about tires and what I fill the tires with I damn sure don't need to be operating or trying to maintain it, I did'nt buy it to slip buy with low dollar items to keep it maintained and in reliable status so when I have a call to make I am on side of the road somewhere, I have to have and need the Proven Reliability components and that's my situation and it does not apply to many others I am sure.they can use whatever fits there budget and the likes ...

Year Date code of Manufacturing is the number one Key in the tire as with many other life limited items rubber is one of them and a later production is always going to provide a newer used material or compound and will leave for a longer shelf life or installation interval, stands to reason. with regards to Warranties and Road Hazards I suppose they all vary with the Mfg and their particular warranty stipulations which can be another whole can of worms and science itself at times on how a discrepancy was originated.

Enough time out west will give you valuable lessons on Dry Rot of Rubber and heat damage to tires.. side wall cracking comes in a few various forms from age, heat and fatigue due to various parameters. most of the common ones would be Under inflation or over inflation and age, on most RV rigs from what I have seen with regards to side wall cracking... I suppose that any applications of Petroleum by products that some use on their tires to clean them up also contributes to the equation as well according to the OEM ...
Sidewall Cracking due to Fatigue or Rot has allowable limits per the OEM but when i see sidewall Cracking beginning even with allowable limits it only means that it is a matter of time before you have a failure, so you might as well bite the bullet and have it changed good tread on it or not, it is fixing to come apart very soon, so avoid the additional damages to your rig and replace it.


I don't know Chicago Joe or anything about washing tires with Gasoline but maybe that works best for him, but like you say I suppose he would go through a few tires with this approach ... I just stick with the Old time proven solution and OEM recommendations Soap and water myself and a mild bristle brush to remove debris and road grime.

If this don't do it and since this blog is on the subject matter of Weapons... I take out my AK-47 and blow the hell out of the damn thing and go get a new one. ;)

[flyu2there]

LET THE FIGHT BEGIN


Nobody can sell any ammunition after June 30, 2009
It has already started....Ammunition Accountability Legislation

Remember how Obama said that he wasn't going to take your guns? Well, it seems that his allies in the anti-gun world have no problem with taking your ammo! The bill that is being pushed in 18 states (including Illinois and Indiana ) requires all ammunition to be encoded by the manufacturer, a data base of all ammunition sales. So, they will know how much you buy and what caliber. Nobody can sell any ammunition after June 30, 2009 unless the ammunition is coded. Any privately held uncoded ammunition must be destroyed by July 1, 2011. (Including hand loaded ammo.) They will also charge a ....05 cent tax on every round so every box of ammo you buy will go up at least $2.50 or more! If they can deprive you of ammo they do not need to take your gun! This legislation is currently pending in 18 states: Alabama , Arizona , California , Connecticut , Hawaii , Illinois , Indiana , Kentucky , Maryland , Mississippi , Missouri , New Jersey , New York , Pennsylvania , Rhode Island , South Carolina , Tennessee , and Washington.

To find more about the anti-gun group that is sponsoring this legislation and the specific legislation for each state, go to:
http://ammunitionaccountability.org/Legislation.htm

[Joe Cannarozzi]

If they incode the ammo wouldn't that help law enforcement actually catch bad guys and take the wind out of the sails of those who want to take away ALL guns:confused:

The added cost is bad for sure, what am I missing?

[truk4u]

Joe,

Your missing the fact they are slowly attempting to take away your 2nd Amendment rights. Ballistics can already tie the bullet to the gun. Think about it, the scum bag steals or buys a black market gun, then steals your ammo. He ends up shooting someone and the new coded bullet comes back to you! Have fun with that scenario!:mad:

[Joe Cannarozzi]

You are a regular comedian Tom.

Are you suggesting that I do not comprehend what it would be like to be charged and convicted of something I did not do?

If someone steals ammo and shoots it through another gun wouldn't ballistics verify that?

I understand very well how our liberty gets incrementally eroded without notice by many small continual changes.

If you commit a crime with a gun weather it is fired or not weather someone is hurt or not should carry a very long prison term without parol. That is what I would do.

I asked the question because I truly am confused.

IMO coding amo may be a good thing but the fact that it was slid in under the radar makes me wonder

[flyu2there]

Joe,

Your missing the fact they are slowly attempting to take away your 2nd Amendment rights. Ballistics can already tie the bullet to the gun. Think about it, the scum bag steals or buys a black market gun, then steals your ammo. He ends up shooting someone and the new coded bullet comes back to you! Have fun with that scenario!:mad:

Right on...then out comes a new amended bill and fairly soon...2nd Amendment..GONE! Tomorrow we get a new "sin" tax for tobacco, beer, wine and whiskey are surely next! Personally, I am going to go out and buy a new Ford.................:D

[Jon Wehrenberg]

So in order to enforce this new law requiring ammunition to be coded can we expect another army of mental giants like the Homeland Security and TSA weenies going through our homes checking for illegal ammo?

This is getting political and I know that is a no-no, but as long as we sit and bitch, but don't do anything we can expect this kind of idiocy.

[FLY-N-LOW]

Hi Folks,


This has been in the works for some time already it is not new, it all started quite a some years ago and was found unconstitutional and shot down.

Now they try and start this same crap again, a few guys in Seattle, Wa a few years ago got wind of two cops on scene that had a shoot out with a suspect fatally injuring the man, when the internal affairs investigated the shooting because both cops had emptied out their service revolvers towards the suspect they were not certain as to which officer actually fired the fatal shot... now with this in the media a few guys got a hold of this and first suggested that the local police force provide the officers with "COLOR-CODED" ammo so that anytime a similar incident like this happened in the future that could tell who fired the shot that took out the suspect.. stands to reason to some degree, now the Brain Stormers took it a step further and suggested that hey we can become overnight millionaires with such an idea.

They decided to patient AMMO CODING with a laser technique on the back of the bullets and got this in production after doing almost all their homework they approached the AMMO Mfg's and asked for their assistance .. all the AMMO Mfg's told them to go piss up a rope and get lost basically as this was a huge invasion to the Second Amendment Rights of Legal Gun Owners in this Country...

So the two would be almost Millionaires left the AMMO Mfg's with the asses tucked between their legs and tried to recalculate how they could make their idea come to life... after a few more months at the drawing board they found that by getting a few senators and congressmen in their hip pockets and pushing this via the legislative process they were sure to have their idea put into action and production soonest.... out of the 18 states that have entertained this idea all have already declined it and it has been shot down and found Unconstitutional due to the Second Right infringements ...

Its a great idea but it was tried once before in this country and shot down.

Like Tom has commented we the legal owners abide by the laws and when a Criminal wishes to break in and steal your AMMO and uses it in a Crime this then places you at the scene basically and they also do not want to have to face these issues in the future either... if it were not for that and the additional cost imposed it would be one hell of an idea...

If you wish to follow up on this check with the NRA and do a Google on AMMO Coding and follow the various Links ... you can learn a lot on the Web here on that subject matter....

It is not law and Mr. Obama is well aware of the Second Amendment Right and the status of it.. Brass and all metals have been expensive lately, all AMMO has been expensive for the past year ... this is mostly contributed to the Fuel Surcharges we had there for awhile, the cost of all metals, and the war in Iraq... if you wish talk to the folks at "BLACK HILLS AMMO" in Rapid City, S.D. and they will verify all of what I have stated.. they specialize in .223 & 5.56 rounds of all types New & Reman and the demand on that factory is so high for filling the Military allocations they cant keep up with filling the civilian market ammo here at home...

Want to be Pro-Active with Keeping your Weapons as a Legal Citizen join the N.R.A. and be pro-active ... write you senators and congressmen as I do and let them know how you feel and what you think..dont ever set back and wait on someone else to do it.. the stronger the force the louder the message becomes....

;)

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Right, Tommy. They will listen just like they have listened to the aviation community's pleas regarding Homeland Security and TSA.

Forgive me if I think writing to an elected weenie gets us anything more than a Xeroxed copy of a form letter and kills a few more trees.

[phorner]

Well said.

There was a gun show in nearby Fort Pierce, FL last weekend. First time for this show at this location and there were a couple of hundred people standing in line to get in when it opened.

And inside, the largest crowds were at the ammo booths. Most were buying by the case.

Our local gun shops can only manage to keep a few boxes, if any at all, of the most popular ammunition on the shelves.

[phorner]

One of the very real dangers is being found to be in possession of newly declared "illegal" ammunition of which the owner may be completely unaware.

Many years ago in New Jersey (one of the most highly restrictive states in the country) the governor declared, with legislative backing, that certain "assault weapons" were banned.

At he time I owned a Colt AR-15, which had been legally purchased at my local gun shop in NJ. Never used in a crime.

Yet one day I'm the legal owner and the next I'm a criminal. No "grandfathering". No compensation. No appeal.

The answer was sell it out of state (of course, you're taking a chance transporting it) or destroy it, or simply turn it in to your local NJ State Police. :mad:

That was only one good reason to leave the Garden State.

So believe me, it can happen.

[FLY-N-LOW]

Jon,

Yeah your right to some degree... numbers are hard to defeat ask the Chinese.

I didnt say that I was waiting on a form from some elected Weenie in Senate or Congress, I said I voiced my opinion on the matter and was not looking for a reply ... I stated Facts of the matter and they were told what was what, not what I thought they may or may not do for me...

If you follow up on the Gun Laws you will now see that the Supreme Court just recently ruled that a Legal Gun Owner can again bring his gun to his place of employment and leave it locked in his vehicle while he is in the work place without any legal ramifications, this had been banned for quite a few years and had been in a long review by the courts and the Supreme Court ruled it is Unconstitutional to prohibit and individual from having the legal weapon in their own private vehicle at work or any other location as long as it is locked up in that vehicle. I also wrote the senators and congress and told them of this matter along with a lot of other folks and voiced my opinion how it affects the Second Amendment Right... and now we have won that battle ...

If we all stick to this then we can prevail, if we sit on our hands they will strip us of them eventually.. However I want go down without a fight myself.

Dont get me started on TSA and that bunch of B.S. I deal with those idiots on a weekly basis.. again like coding of AMMO might have been a good idea to start with but is doesnt work as affective as they may think. and then again I could share some things with you in person that would curl not only your hair but probably your toe nails ...

The Fear of the unknown has the AMMO Mfgs and Weapons folks in High Cotton right about now and they are making a killing on just about everyone.

I seen this coming before G.W. left office and did what I had to do before the lines of folks and prices have got where they are... and no thanks to that administration nor the one coming through the door to replace him has it created all of this... at least we know the Fellow Americans are keeping with their Second Amendment Right and you can ask the NRA how many new folks they have had join just at the first of this year already and they will tell you that the numbers are overwhelming ...


Additionally understand that there are more Gun owners in this Country than Pilots or Aircraft Owners ... thus the masses sticking together will prevail.

Didnt say I liked it because I love Aviation also and they have been regulating Aviation so hard for the past 15 years it has gotten to the point it is no longer as fun as it use to be... but leave it to the Government to fix a problem ... this is usually the whole problem, it is a select group that make the laws and put them into place without taking others input on matters prior to putting the laws in place. it follows suit with the rest of the things that are there for the viewing at present they have been involved in as well.

[Orren Zook]

You are a regular comedian Tom.

Are you suggesting that I do not comprehend what it would be like to be charged and convicted of something I did not do?

If someone steals ammo and shoots it through another gun wouldn't ballistics verify that?

I understand very well how our liberty gets incrementally eroded without notice by many small continual changes.

If you commit a crime with a gun weather it is fired or not weather someone is hurt or not should carry a very long prison term without parol. That is what I would do.

I asked the question because I truly am confused.

IMO coding amo may be a good thing but the fact that it was slid in under the radar makes me wonder

You're right Joe, ballistics would/should show what gun fired the bullet, as I understand the bill(s) the shell casing is being encoded and this ID number will be reported to a national database. Not all bullets are recovered at a crime scene but the shell casings are usually littering the ground.

[rodburtonmusic]

Don't care to confirm or deny my practice, but just the site of a long barrel 357 is enough to get a lot of folks attention.

And the thumb cock/revolver spin, it's a lovely sound.

I beleive that God looks out for all those in need, but doesn't mind the help of those who will look out for themselves.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

I read some of the legislation on the link provided, and all are not yet effective, but they are mostly talking about hand gun and assault weapon ammunition, and adding five cents to the purchase price of each round. The exception I noticed was Missouri, they want one half cent added to the cost of a round.
I bet there will be a lot of purchasing of ammunition in Missouri!
None that I have read address selling across state borders, so I guess it will be OK.
One state, states rounds must not be mixed in various containers, meaning the box with the serial number must contain that serialized round:eek:, what about the ammo belt?
The addition of five cents a round will make 22 plinking expensive.
None talk of how they will address (define) hand gun ammunition. What if you are buying for a rifle?
So far I have seen no mention of shotgun ammunition, but once they get the taste of the TAX MONEY I am sure it will be applied to all ammunition, whether serialized or not.
I have not read all states pending legislation, and don't think I will.
A couple have died in session, and (petered out) Sine Die.....means, without fixing a day for future action.

Where do the strange people with strange ideas come from anyway.


I just found out Australia has an estimated population of wild camels of around one million.


:cool: JIM :D

[truk4u]

Joe,

Lighten up, your the one that asked if you were missing something and there was no joking in my comment. If you think registering your ammo is a good thing, we will never be on that same page.

[flyu2there]

San Francisco has one of the toughest gun control ordinances in the country, but hey, why worry! Have a look at the below picture...
Chief Heather Fong (left), the first SFPD female chief of police;
Theresa Sparks (center, former male), president of the San Francisco Police Commission, CEO of a multimillion-dollar sex toy retailer, and a Trans gender woman. Sgt. Stephan Thorne (right, former female), the first Trans gender SFPD police officer..

Their Representative in Congress is Nancy Pelosi. Say no more.

[phorner]

That is JUST PLAIN SCARY !!:eek:!!

[FLY-N-LOW]

Jim,

This is what I had also understood from what I had read, is that they were initially only looking to code the ammo of Handguns and Assault weapons due to their use in the majority of weapon crimes. ( Gang Bangers and Punks mostly ) I cant ever seem to read where this has happened from the Legal Gun Owners though... damn at the luck if they could only figure out a way to track those Criminals they would have it whipped and we wouldnt be having this conversation..Right ?

I guess they either forget to print that part or send it out on the Communist News Network Channel. ( Sorry but I have no use for Ted Turner or his Communist girl Friend Jane Fonda )

Next they will have us registering our Butcher knives and Tire Tools and anything else that has ever been used in a violent crime, and I am certain that if it has a damn dollar attached to it it will be something they shall entertain. ( Seems to me we already had one major war "Civil War" in this country over Taxes once before and apparently we did not learn to much from it, I keep forgetting what the original intent was to break away from the British and become our own nation, did that not also have something to do with Taxes)

Its not about safety or their real concerns of the U.S. Citizens, its all about the Dollar and has been for a very long time already in this country!

Like a Speeding ticket, the smoke screen is not really about the safety lets be honest, its about revenue folks ... how many times did the cop or trooper ever call you and follow up after that ticket to see just how the Hell you were doing and care about your health or safety... ??

If we already have Forensics in Place by means of Ballistics then why should they impose Ammo Coding... basically the same difference except ammo coding is just a new measure to expedite the process and place a front on collecting of New Tax strategies ... the Good Ole Smoking Mirrors syndrome.
( Now you dont see it coming and next thing here you go )


Understand that had this Ammo coding thing have passed via legislation then
the guys who founded the ammo coding using the laser technique would have been rich over-night and have had the patient on such coding and this means that govt. would have made this possible for those individuals. this is not a new concept and was tried before and declined by the courts with reasons of infringement on the Second Amendment Right.. now they try from the same basic concept angle but with a different technique of the actual coding...

Mark my words they will regret the day this ever passes if it ever does pass.

Should this pass, when you purchase the ammo it would be registered to the one purchasing it and you would have to meet certain requirements of course to make such purchase..Ammo Accountability.. so you fire off all the rounds in your backyard or range ... next will they wish for us to account for where and when the ammo was discharged and maintain a log book of it ?

Joe's comment on having your ammo stolen from your possession has also been asked by many folks already in regards to this ammo coding subject matter and carries a lot of merit and is a very valid question... this has them really stumbled at the same time here because they know they are going to be faced with errors and huge law suites should something like that happen even though its your ultimate responsibility... and lets also not forget to mention here.. what if the Manufacturer makes a mistake and the coding process happens to run the same coding due to a computer controlled process failure on say maybe a few extra lots of ammo and it being with the same coding and is sold to a few different thousand people by mistake and it all shows registered to you or the other 1000 folks now who is responsible... I keep forgetting that Computers in this day and age and manufacturers dont make mistakes and the Quality Control would be through the roof right... something to do with ISO standards processes and the likes ... now put that in your pipe and smoke on that awhile ... if this B.S. all passes they have a lot of exposure and margin for error liabilities on their plates .. the real question is do they want the headaches for the Tax Dollar they might be able to profit from it and which will be the next Constitutional Right they will wish to go after... probably my Freedom of Speech like this one here.

I suppose this all goes hand in hand with the New Health Care plan now for all Americans.... its a good thing that it is a Priority like Guantanamo Bay I suppose ..but it does not appear either one have done much for the country yet and we are still faced with the Economic Crisis ... I suppose that it is somewhere on the priority list but apparently not at the top of it... Wouldnt you think they should be focused on what really needs to happen to get the place back up and running or have I missed something here ?

now its dawning on me.. its the change coming to Washington.. Tax Change from the Ammo Coding that will take care of the Entire problems Houston ..

Have you seen what they did with Alcohol and tobacco taxes in the past week or so now ?

I kind of find this somewhat interesting ... Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms
and you all thought I was just all over the place there for a minute... Imagine that..

And you all just thought this topic was of Great Concern, dont read anything about FEMA and their Prisons ( Concentration Camps ) they have built for all you non conforming Americans to be housed in some day.. Yep thats right dont believe me.. Google it for yourselves do your homework on FEMA in your spare time... I will leave it at that.

Jon, I can see you thought they were here to help just like the F.A.A.


Enjoy while you still have a Chance and the Right ! ;) Tomorrow always Brings a New Day so I am told ...

Just remember that a Government Big enough to provide you the rights you have is big enough to also take them away !

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Now that you've all got your guns all shined up and loaded, here's a site that will help you make them legal, accessible, and safer than just laying around.

This is a large site and you may find some other goodies there, so have fun, look around.

Took me over a year to find these locks. Everyone I asked about them knew of them, but didn't know where to get them.

http://www.chiefsupply.com/Vehicle_Equipment/Gun_Racks,Locks

These guys make the racks. http://www.tufloc.com/tufloc.html

JIM

[TG Transport]

Absolutely we carry. Better to be caught with one than without one. I have had to show it once. I was parked at a truck stop.

[FLY-N-LOW]

Hi Towson,

My pleasure to meet you !

I agree with you on better being caught with one than without one.

In my case I like redundancy so they may catch me with a couple of them.
( I like the old Chinese proverb, "Sorry for your Luck" )

Someone said that your either prepared or your a Victim somewhere along the way and in this day and age it seems to even hold more truth, sad to say...

There has been some comments on here that I both agree and disagree with... one being that one should just crank the bus and leave the scene.. this is one of those situations that pertains to lots of surrounding details and parameters I suppose, and if its an option that's probably the best thing to do, however if one does not have time to crank the bus and leave the scene then what ? Quicker to reach for the Equalizer if you ask me.

The reason I make the statement above is due to your comment about having to "SHOW" your piece to some would be's at a Truck Stop and I am certain that probably changed their minds right away... not that you would ever want to have to shoot anyone I am sure, but you dont want to be shot or knifed either I am certain..

Now in your particular situation why didnt you just Crank the Bus and drive that 40,000 pound lethal weapon all over them ? Let me guess it was not an option for you and the situation did not allow for it, it was easier and quicker to show your weapon correct ? mostly due to timing... unless your engine was running and the Brake Pressure was high enough to move the coach and you had nothing to move out of your way like an 85,000 pound Tractor Trailer Rig ... what else would you do ?

It seems I had made the same comment on this form a few weeks ago with having the weapon onboard my coach for protection and was told it was not a good idea to have it on the coach basically by certain members and that I should just Crank the Bus and drive over whatever was in the way to avoid the confrontation...

Can you share with us in more detail as to your situation at the Truck Stop ?
do not need names, dates or places, just the incident and how it unfolded and why driving off was not an option for you, and was you glad that you were able to have had the weapon for protection onboard and what you might would do different in the future if faced with a similar situation ? I think this would be of benefit to some of the members here to know your situation.

I would love to hear about your situation and let others know why having a weapon onboard outweighs the cranking and driving off the scene option.
In your case it sounds like that was not an Option however.

I am a very strong believer in my Second Amendment Right for self protection, and the protection of my family in case you did not happen to
read into this enough far enough yet ...

Your a two hours drive over the boarder from here ... maybe we will have to hook up sometimes... if you would like to get away to the country, we have plenty of room out here to park your rig and enjoy some piece and quite... nothing but the Country Choir at night ( The Crickets & Frogs ) it's pretty soothing to the ear's and eyeballs here.


Thanks.

Cheers...

;)

[FLY-N-LOW]

Hi Jim,


Hope all is going your way !

I been meaning to tell you that's a good looking Dog you got there...
every time I see a Dalmation Dog it takes me back to when that boy of mine was little..he use to have a bit of trouble saying "Dalmation" for some reason the letter "L" would not come through... it was pretty funny and took a bit of work to get that all corrected !

Yeah I can imagine an overhead Rack like that in Either the Truck of the Bus
right up front by the Drivers area... can you imagine the looks and comments one would get with some overhead racks like that in a Bus ?

I had seen some similar racks to these at a local Law Enforcement supply store and the thought had crossed my mind, but figured I would stay on the conservative side and keep them out of site, out of site and out of mind is sometimes a good thang as Martha Stewart says... of course she was not out of site all that long now that I think about it.

Somebody up in your part of the country forgot to close the Freezer Door and we are again feeling the effects of it, see what you can do to close that door for us soon.

Cheers...;)

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I sure hope you are not claiming I suggest moving the bus is an alternative to having a weapon on board. If so, correct your thinking.

I will move the bus as my first choice at the hint of a bad situation. I will not sit on my ass waiting for a situation to develop to the point I need a weapon. At the least bit of discomfort, and I move. Period.

But if that is not an option because of any number of reasons, I still have the option of employing a weapon. I can select from a variety of handguns or go right to the shotgun. Once a person has a weapon in their hand they need to understand the situation has gotten so bad that someone may be going to die. If anyone brandishing a weapon thinks otherwise they are wrong.

We've been around and when using the bus for business had to park in some less than desirable spots next to warehouses or in some ratty truckstops, but I have not yet had to put a weapon in my hand. I have driven away more than once. In fact, I have driven away a lot of times.

[sawdust_128]

My dealer says that this is "just ratt" for personal defense of the bus. Cindy should be able to handle this just fine ("It'tle Bay a bareeze!"). Best of all, I'll never have to move the bus again. "If'n you dun wanna."

Jim: you think those racks have me covered? Or should I just sling it up in front of the upper windshield? I could leave the upper shades deployed and just press the buttton to uncover if I get the feeling that I need to make a statement.

I just don't know. maybe my guy is right. It's a big bus and I might want to consider something a little substantial.:D

Seriously, just be safe watever you decide works for you.

[FLY-N-LOW]

SawDuster !


That is a Sweeeeeet looking M.G. you got there...

I am thinking you should just remove the upper Spot Light and throw it away, stiffen up the upper attach mounts and replace with Stainless Steel Hardware, oh yeah you may need to replace the Azimuth and Elevation Motor and then Top Mount that Bad Boy !

A remote control from the Captains Big Chair and your all set !

I am thinking you would be the Man at the Truck Stop and all the Rallies, or pretty much where ever your travels take you, and we are parking next door to you as you would need and extra bus to haul all the Brass that thing would chew up in a few seconds from the length of the barrel we should be out of range being parked next to you ...

That would look sick on the Top of the Prevost going down the Highway or setting on the pad can you imagine, speaking of Top Rack Mounts and I am certain you would draw just a little attention with that Big mamma Jamma !

Do you get much Plinking action in with that piece on a weekly basis?

I bet just a few rounds for that thing would bout wipe out a weeks paycheck in short order ...


Have Fun and keep em Locked and Loaded.

Cheers...;)


Jon, who rattled your cage already.. not body was claiming you said anything wrong .. read all the previous threads real closely and read my last thread even closer in detail.. I said I agreed with the approach of Driving off versus having to shoot some dumb ass and was asking TOWSON why he felt he could not crank up his bus an do the same !

have a Coke and Smile and read my lines closely... in my original comments somebody made the comment when asked about having weapons onboard their coaches that they would rather just drive off, Great Idea if possible and the situation permits that was my reply and a true one right ?, but no mention of having weapons on ones coach was mentioned until now, and now the truth is on the table that you have three or four handguns and a shot gun, Great News and I am proud for you and hope you never have to use them.

All I was asking TOWSON for was how his situation unfolded and to share that with the discussion here since he had commented to such and that's what the overall topic is here ?

Never know we all may learn something from his situation ?

Cheers..

;)

[garyde]

I'm sure everyone has a story to tell, and some may rise to the level of needing self defense. The thing is, I've had situations even w/o my bus. I don't think I've ever considered carrying a weapon daily because of it.
So , its more about the bus and the attention, positive and negative, it may bring. And the places we travel in the bus.
I have heard several close call stories where it would make anyone feel better to have a shotgun or gun. Those stories never rose to the need to have or use a gun however.
I remember my uncle 'showing" his six shooter to some guys who were following him on the road. It seemed to have the desired result. But it could have had the exact opposite result as well.
In the final analysis, like Jon has said, if you pull a gun, be ready to use it.

[truk4u]

Good points Gary. I've kept silent on this thread, but will add a few comments and then maybe it will be over. If you pull/show a gun, you had better be ready for the consequences, from an immediate gun battle with the bad guy (at which time you may piss yourself and your knees will buckle) and hopefully your still alive and that stray bullet hasn't found it's way to some innocent bystander. You own that round where ever it ends up. Or you wave it around and the bad guy leaves and the local law enforcement is going to show up, remember cell phones are everywhere, and your going to be busy talking them out of jail time for displaying the weapon (depending on state and/or local code).

It's serious business and not to taken lightly while pounding your chest and proclaiming I would do this or that. In law enforcement we're taught to shoot to stop the threat in order to prevent loss of life to yourself or others. Shoot someone because they're stealing your stuff and your going to jail with them.

I'm armed to the teeth, but common sense, training and experience will keep me out of trouble. Remember one thing, the bus is your home and anyone forcing entry to cause you harm justifies lethal action. If your being harassed, leave, call the police, lock your doors and use your head.

Be armed, but don't be a statistic!;)

[phorner]

Well said, Truk.

By the way, looks like I'll be getting some supplementary training at Front Sight in Nevada this summer :D

[lewpopp]

Truk, that was a very commen sense post you made. A lot of far left and right wingers here and that's kind of scary. It's the quiet man you should be careful of and don't think he is helpless. It's like the guy who brags on how much money he has, really doesn't have squat.

[FLY-N-LOW]

Lew,


Common Sense is not so common anymore these days ! maybe that's a huge part of the problem, I forget this point a lot anymore and assume most folks are still with a bit of it , but it seems Old Mr. Common died a long time ago !


The Key words ( Situation & Judgment ) keep those in your Brain Bag and with an ounce of common sense you will go far and live to further enjoy life.

like you say talks cheap and the quiet man is the one you need to look out for.

Your Right, in these days and times of the 21st century we are faced with a lot of uncertain situations, Scary if you will, but I am not living my life in fear and will continue exercising my freedom daily if it means I must remain armed most of the time to do so.;)

[TG Transport]

Sorry for the delinquent response, Fly-N-Low. I have not had time to surf the web lately - too busy trying to stay busy at work. Where are you all in NE Alabama? I actually grew up a few miles north of Sherwood, AL acrosss the TN border. Keep packin heat.

[FLY-N-LOW]

Hi Towson,

No worries on the reply...

Yeah I know how the work thing goes and staying busy I have been doing the same myself lately and in my spare time catching up on the all the task around here on the property now that the rain has subsided for awhile.

We are located south of Fort Payne, AL about 20 miles off Highway 35 and about 20 miles to the West, Northwest of Rome, Ga.

As far as the heat is concerned I carry it with me just about every where I go just like the American Express... Better to have it and not need it as to need it and not have it ! you just never know anymore in these times...

I like to pack the Old 1911 Colt, lots of Punch and a Heck of a piece of Lead Ball ....

Actually I got the P.M. maintenance done on the Bus today and was able to wash her and clean her up nicely, pulled all my batteries out, serviced them and cleaned the entire area, its amazing how well that "FAST ORANGE" can dissolve Grease, and once I had the 4 main batteries and Battery Tray out I cleaned the entire area and used the Low Pressure, Pressure washer to wash all of the Grease and Grime away... the Engine Compartment is now really clean again and was able to correct some minor issues in the area... just a really nice Spring Day here today ... Actually it was Awesome and I hope for a few more like it.

Take care and if you need to turn the wheels and wet the seals ride over and come see us sometimes.

Take Care...

Tommy ;)

[TG Transport]

Our first coach was a 1994 Liberty. Hopefully you are taking about the chassis batteries. Our house batteries were in the center of the coach and accessible only from the center of the front pass-thru bay. If not, you are ambitious for tackling that job.

My wife and I come up to Barnesley Gardens and Chattanooga on occasion. We might have to head towards Fort Payne.

S&W 3915 is our trustworthy travel companion.

[FLY-N-LOW]

Hi,


Yes that is correct I pulled the 4 each main chassis Batteries and the Tray they sit on and cleaned the area and all the Interconnecting Cables along with other Engine Compartment areas and looked over of all lines and connections as well as the wiring, belts, hoses ect.

I just recently replaced the Generator Battery and that is in good shape now and my next bout will be the inspection of the house batteries and cables for condition and security... like to keep all of them clean and apply a little Grease on them to help prevent the build up on them.


If you make over towards Fort Payne let me know when you plan on heading up this way and we can maybe get together ...


Take care.

Tommy

[phorner]

As a follow up to an earlier post of mine in this thread, I did complete the 2-day Defensive handgun course at Front Sight in Pahrump, Nevada.

This is truly world class firearms training. The instructors were incredible. They personally took each individuals gun and fired it themselves into the center of the target to demonstrate that the sights on the firearm were in correct alignment and to prove to the student what was possible with the very same gun they carried.

We also fired from a position of a loaded gun drawn from the holster. Not many ranges are confident enough in their training to allow that!

I encourage everyone interested in firearms training, from hand guns to select-fire M-16 to full auto Uzi, to consider Front Sight. You will not be disappointed!

[truk4u]

Bravo Paul, firearms training is so important, even for experienced folks. I have an upcoming class at Glock in November and looking forward to it.

Careful on the quick draw, foot shots are very painful!:D

[phorner]

Tom,

I'll be happy to share a couple of quick tips that I learned.... they will work wonders on the Glock.

They were EXTREMELY diligent about range and personal safety while training to shoot from the holster.

One exercise which I thought was very cool was when the instructor had me place the gun on target.... while he pressed the trigger.

Shot was dead on....:)

[phorner]

Here is a good link to Front Sight....

http://www.frontsight.com/Dec2009.asp

[TG Transport]

Paul, that's a nice tight pattern.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Yes it was a nice tight pattern.

I could have done that too,..............if I was standing 6" from the target, MAYBE? :D

Gary S.

[Reagan Sirmons]

Just a couple of thoughts:
For anyone traveling within the State of Texas with a gun carried in your mode of transportation, it is has long been mutually understood that you are not required to have a concealed gun permit if you are traveling across County lines "in transit." If stopped while in your car and the gun is in the vehicle (for example while going out to eat away from the RV resort) and you have stated to an officer you are "in transit", you had best have extra clothing, bags, etc to show proof.

In addition, if stopped for a potential violation of some sort in Texas and you have a concealed weapons permit from Texas or elsewhere, it is recommended that you provide the officer with your driver's license and gun permit simultaneously. If they should search your vehicle and find a weapon without the officers having been forewarned, get ready to make bail.

For the record, one of every three trucks in Texas has a gun on board... that is a bonifide fact published by numerous sources. I never give any trouble to these guys who look suspicious because I am reminded of the bumper sticker stating "Keep honking, I'm re-loading".

Reagan

[GDeen]

Reagan,

A Texas Ranger I had working on an oil theft case a few years back told me the exact same thing. In fact, given the location of our lease (S. Houston) he said I would be crazy not to be carrying. Suggested I always let whatever officer I came in contact with know that I run the roads from county to county in my business and they should be fine with it.


Just a couple of thoughts:
For anyone traveling within the State of Texas with a gun carried in your mode of transportation, it is has long been mutually understood that you are not required to have a concealed gun permit if you are traveling across County lines "in transit." If stopped while in your car and the gun is in the vehicle (for example while going out to eat away from the RV resort) and you have stated to an officer you are "in transit", you had best have extra clothing, bags, etc to show proof.

In addition, if stopped for a potential violation of some sort in Texas and you have a concealed weapons permit from Texas or elsewhere, it is recommended that you provide the officer with your driver's license and gun permit simultaneously. If they should search your vehicle and find a weapon without the officers having been forewarned, get ready to make bail.

For the record, one of every three trucks in Texas has a gun on board... that is a bonifide fact published by numerous sources. I never give any trouble to these guys who look suspicious because I am reminded of the bumper sticker stating "Keep honking, I'm re-loading".

Reagan

[Bill Price]

If you are looking for true world class training look at:

www.gunsite.com

I cannot stress enough to take a close look at ANY training facility you are considering.

They are not all alike. Some are no more than fun and games regardless of what they claim to be. Some have numerous law suits and criminal investigations going on as we speak. BEWARE !!!!!!

You will find Gunsite to be the real deal.

I was an Instructor and Range Master at Gunsite under Col. Jeff Cooper for years.
I am part of the original Gunsite "Orange" group.

Take a look at there operation and then decide.

[truk4u]

Check this out for your gun questions!

http://www.opencarry.org/maps.html

[phorner]

Paul, that's a nice tight pattern.

In all honesty, that pattern is actually too tight for self-defense purposes. It indicates that too much time was spent aiming. The "ideal" pattern would be about the size of your hand, and indicates a good balance between accuracy and speed. There is a difference between target shooting for a score and self-defense shooting. Two quick rounds anywhere into the thoracic cavity should do the job.

No thug that was ever shot looked down and said "wow, that's a nice 2" pattern" :eek:

But thanks for the compliment anyway :)

[GDeen]

In all honesty, that pattern is actually too tight for self-defense purposes. It indicates that too much time was spent aiming. The "ideal" pattern would be about the size of your hand, and indicates a good balance between accuracy and speed. There is a difference between target shooting for a score and self-defense shooting. Two quick rounds anywhere into the thoracic cavity should do the job.

No thug that was ever shot looked down and said "wow, that's a nice 2" pattern" :eek:

But thanks for the compliment anyway :)

So true, how would any of us that can shoot a handgun well in practice do in anger or angst? Saw a show last night where a cop chasing a suspect had a gun pulled on him (or what he thought was a gun). Suspect lunged from behind a car ~ 15-20' away toward cop. Cop squeezed off at least 10 rnds at close range and the suspect "was not seriously hurt!!!" Cop was backing away just squeezing the trigger and apparently never got a round off to the core - by the time it was over the guy was only 5-10' away!:eek:

[merle&louise]

Last year I attend a concealed weapons class in order to obtain a concealed weapon's permit for the state of Louisiana. The instructor told us that the local police hit the person that they are shooting at 13% of the time!:eek:

Fear, adrenalin, and anxiety I'm sure contribute to the low percentage of hits!

[Ray Davis]

Hmm, I wonder what/whom they hit with the other 87% of the bullets? :eek:

[Bill Price]

Would any of the POG members be interested in a FREE two day handgun training seminar here in Quanah, Texas?

The course would cover the basics. Regardless of your skill level you will learn something. I teach the modern method of pistolcraft as taught by the late Jeff Cooper.

This covers, stance, safety, reloading, use of the holster, trigger control, flash sight picture and etc... This would be a very busy two days.

We could make this into a mini-rally here in Quanah. I did one of these a few years ago for some of our Airstream friends. It was a lot of fun and I felt like they got a lot out of it.

I can handle three buses across from my house at NO charge. We have a Rv park near here that has 50 amp and etc...

We might have to rent the firing range. Normally if you buy your ammo from them there is NO charge for range use. I would just have to work that out.

I would put a limit of 24 students. Due to weather and my schedule we would have to look at early spring.

Any ideas on this ???

[phorner]

Wow Bill! That's a very generous offer and I would love to do it.

Unfortunately, I don't expect to be in Texas for quite some time, but an unofficial POG firearms training seminar would be great!

[GDeen]

Would any of the POG members be interested in a FREE two day handgun training seminar here in Quanah, Texas?

The course would cover the basics. Regardless of your skill level you will learn something. I teach the modern method of pistolcraft as taught by the late Jeff Cooper.

This covers, stance, safety, reloading, use of the holster, trigger control, flash sight picture and etc... This would be a very busy two days.

We could make this into a mini-rally here in Quanah. I did one of these a few years ago for some of our Airstream friends. It was a lot of fun and I felt like they got a lot out of it.

I can handle three buses across from my house at NO charge. We have a Rv park near here that has 50 amp and etc...

We might have to rent the firing range. Normally if you buy your ammo from them there is NO charge for range use. I would just have to work that out.

I would put a limit of 24 students. Due to weather and my schedule we would have to look at early spring.

Any ideas on this ???

Bill, mark me down as very interested. May help inspire to buy the new gun I have been thinking about off and on. Very nice offer - thanks.

[tdelorme]

Bill, Jan and I are both licensed to carry and shoot weekly. That being said, we would still enjoy a refresher course and the chance to spend some time in West Texas. I'll even volunteer to park next to Gordon (if it's only a couple of days.)

[Reagan Sirmons]

Bill,
Thank you for the offer to help me shoot straight. However, that would make me lose my position in "the Gang". You have to think about that one for a moment.
PLease accept my confirmation of interest to attend. If you can put the activity together, Betty and I will bring lunch for the POG crew if it fits the day's schedule or will provide it for an evening dinner. If its a big group, I will pull my pit to Quanah. I know where it is because it is exactly half way between Houston and Winter Park. Don't ask me how I know that useless and little known fact.
Please keep me posted and thank you again.
very best,
Reagan
Pres

[Bill Price]

So far so good. It looks like we have three buses or 6 shooters so far. It would be nice to have a minimum of 18 people. We shall see.

Regan the offer sounds good.

[Denny]

Bill
Put me down as tentative. There is a CC rally in Kerrville May 19 - 23 that we will attend if our schedule allows. It would be great to tie in your training rally with this event. I would love to learn from a Jeff Cooper instructor as the 1911 is my favorite gun.

[Jerry Winchester]

Bill,

Any chance we could get someone there that could issue the Texas folks their concealed carry license? Rae and I would both be up for that.

JDUB

[Reagan Sirmons]

Bill,
Ditto on the concealed gun permit application person JDUB requested. I went through the training and paid a fee along with several others but did not file the final application. The instructions were elementary and the test simplistic. I believe the cost was $150?
Thank you.
Reagan
Pres

[aggies09]

Bill,

Put me down as tentative. I am with Jerry; if we could get the concealed handgun permit at the same time I would be very interested.

[Bill Price]

I was a Texas CHL Instructor for some years. Due to lack of time and etc. I decided to not certify as an instructor again.

I agree with having a Texas CHL; however I dont agree the lack of training required for the license. There needs to be a minimum of 40 hours range work. I see the class as false security for most people.

The Texas CHL class teaches you nothing about shooting technique. Technique is very important providing us with the capability to hit the target every time under stress. You will find proper technique also promotes safety.

I have No way of helping you obtan the permitt with my class. I will dramatically improve your shooting technique and help you stay alive.

I to prefer the 1911 Colt. The sad thing is the 1911 is hard to carry concealed due to its size and weight. There are many other good weapons on the market today that will do the job. For those who want lite look at the Smith and Wesson 340PD in 357. Great size, weight, smooth finish as to not snag on clothing. The difference is due to the design you WILL carry this one. The weight or I should say lack of is great!!

Sorry I cannot help with the License.

[Bill Price]

Looks like my idea is dead in the water.

Any other takers or let this die for now??

[pwf252]

Bill,
My wife and I would certainly attend if the dates don't conflict with our present schedule. Let us know your tentative dates if and when you can.

[Gary Carmichael]

Bill my wife and I both are permit holders in more than one state . We frequent ranges as often as possible. Owning and carrying a firearm is a big responsiblity, and a right given by the second amendment. But like others have commented it changes from not only state to state but by counties also.