Orphan Coaches

[GDeen]

Ok, there are some pretty good deals out there on coaches from some of the now shuttered convertors. Just curious for input from those of you who own one, have owned one, or worked on one about:


Country Coach
Royal
Vantare
Angola


My preference is to go with a Marathon or Liberty, but there are lots of nice looking examples of some of the above available. General comments about orphan coaches appreciated as well as specifics relative to:


quality of conversion
complication of systems
service folks still around who know systems
parts availability in future


Thanks!

[sawdust_128]

Vantare - Featherlite Vantare' H345
quality of conversion - each converter has put their "touch" on the process. They all do things to differentiate themselves. Some things work out well and others end up being changed in later years. I am satisfied with most things on my coach. I believe that the things I am not satisfied with are the result of deffered maintenance by previous owners and age of the coach.
complication of systems - It takes time to understand what is there. It takes additional time to be able to understand what is there and to be able to dissect it into individual systems. Once you are to that point, things seem to get a bit easier. My opinion, they all do exactly the same thing but there are always a lot of right answers.
service folks still around who know systems - if there is a resource out there, someone on POG will be able to point you in the direction you need to go.
parts availability in future - My opinion is that the parts-for-systems issue is independent of the converters. The converters are just systems integrators. They get their systems from other manufacturers. The only thing that might be an issue is converter specific components availability. For most everything I have worked on, I have not purchased a single part from Featherlite/Vantare'.The thing to make sure is that you get as much converter documentation as possible and, as is well stressed on POG, maintenance records.


I hope that helps a little. I'm sure you will get good answers shortly.

[ajducote]

I can only comment on Royale

1. quality of conversion
Good wood work, pretty standard floor plans, not real fancy. Not very glitzy. I guess compared to Liberty, I would call it plain Jane, livable. Not meant to be a bad comment on a Liberty. Just a lot different "look" inside.

2. complication of systems,
On my 1999 all systems are very simple. Standard industry parts, no fancy computers, easy to change things around. I have not found anything that scares me.

3. service folks still around who know systems
Royale Phoneix http://www.royalephoenix.com/
All most any good Prevost / converter shop should be able to provide service. The systems are so simple.

4. parts availability in future
May be a issue for some things, but so far I do not see a problem. All parts seem to be normal industry things, nothing special.

Newer Royale's may not be as simple as my 1999. I have never really looked a newer one.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Gordon, you can take your bus to any number of places for service. Here's one example of a happy camper.

grantracy grantracy is online now
Senior Member

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Miami,fl
Posts: 103
Default Pleasant Experience at Millennium
I have generally had bad experiences at the various facilities I take my coach to for service. One of our members( can I mention your name here Jon?) recommended I give Millennium a try. In any event I made an appointment gave them a list that was prioritized by level of importance with the understanding we had to be out of the facility by the same day. Brian the svc.mgr ( I think) was personally involved ,got evrything done on my list except the flat screen and polishing the granite( dont ask, seriously he offered to have the vendor meet us at our next stop and do the polishing)and the bill was reasonable. I can recommend them.
__________________
Granvil Tracy
2000 Vantare XLV45, S-2
Reply With Quote

When you think you've found the right bus, talk it over here or privately if your not sure.

JIM

[jelmore]

I'm fairly new to these conversions (two years) but I've found that almost everything the converter does is "off the shelf" parts. The most significant differences are in the design of the systems, quality of assembly, choice of materials, layout, etc. I've seen coaches that are almost a direct copy of what another converter did the year before but just not quite as well done. A converter that makes 20 a year has a different set of standards than one than makes 5 or one that makes 70. I think the market is still a "you get what you pay for" market -- well I hope so anyway. I'm biased having never owned another Prevost conversion, but I sure like the things that Liberty does.

[jack14r]

Since most POS motorhome company's have filed for chapter 11 or gone out of business and the conversion volume has been drastically reduced I wonder if the suppliers of various components will survive.If the volume stays at this level for another year or two I imagine many suppliers won't make it.It may not matter whether we own an orphan,we might be modifying our coaches when something breaks to fit the best available product on the market.

[Danss]

I have owned a 93 Marathon and now own 99 Vogue(prevost)
which was built by the Mitchell group who now have Parliment Coach Co.
I was, and am satisfied with both of my coaches. They have both been worked on at various places such as Marathon in Dallas, San Antonia Fl.
Prevost in Dallas , Jacksonville and Nashville, Parliment Coach in Clearwater, Fl.
I have been completely satisfied with the service I have received at all of the above places.
The bus I now have (99 vogue) is a tough well put together machine. I now have anything I need fixed done at Parliment Coach as I am completely satisfied with their service and the way they go one step beyond and support our group in POG
I believe that no matter what Bus you get, that there a lot of options on where to go for service. Best of luck in your search and don't pay an extra $100,00 for the name!

[Pete]

Like Dan, I have owned 2 coaches. The first, an 85 American, and now own a 95 Vision (previously Pacific). I have had good service from both. I have had them both serviced at Prevost and with no complaints. I personally don't think prevost cares who the converter is, they can repair them all.

As most of the responders to this thread have said, the components, for the most part are not made by the converter, but by independent suppliers, and assembled by the converter.

Pay extra for the name if you feel more comfortable, but I think you can make better use of the money, like a storage building, like diesel to travel. ect. ect.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

The key to buying an orphan is avoiding a coach with proprietary features and systems.

If your converter has specialized computer controls you need access to technicians familiar with those features and probably the manufacturer of the components in the system.

Coaches like Royale that are built using off the shelf components and which lack sophisticated high tech proprietary systems are actually very valuable in the sense they will be serviceable for years to come.

The only difficult part in maintaining an orphan apart from systems is being able to match interior finishes or fabrics or certain hardware.

[GDeen]

Thanks for the input.

Jon, any of the orphan convertors use proprietery systems in particular that you are aware of? Country Coach?

One more questions - I can't stand rattles and noise - should one expect any convertor to do a better job of "solid durable" construction than the others? I realize that may be somewhat subjective...

[rickdesilva]

Thats why I love my '01 Thompson, for the most part..Stevie Wonder can fix most of the stuff. I don't know about the later models..Sid can chime in on that, they may be a little more sophisticated but mine is pretty basic.

[garyde]

Hi Gordon. I have read where Country coach does have some real 'one of a kind hardware' so definatelly speak to some POG members who own Country Coach.

[sawdust_128]

Gordon:

I am pleasantly surprised at just how quiet my coach rides. If there is a shake, rattle, or roll, it has always been something that we failed to secure or cushion. It has always been something we put into the coach and not a converter or Prevost item.


On the other side, you take this big beast and run it down the road. Vibration and jolting translates to everything. So, I have found that for my comfort, I do a very thorough inspection of everything in my mechanical bays either before, during or after each outing. I usually find something that needs a tweak. I do this also because I am still learning the coach. For me this is a repetative learning process. Many times I go through the manuals on the components in a bay the night before I go through the bay.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Gordon,

CC would concern me. The part of a CC that is proprietary is how they integrate their systems and Prevost systems. Nobody else that I know of has that kind of interface.

Rattles are a subjective thing. Some folks can tolerate them more than others. Like Ed's our coach is very quiet. My previous coach was not so quiet. That was more of a testament to how the construction process improved over the years. We drove another coach one time and Di was seated in the living room and I couldn't hear the noises in the rear because the wind noise in the front was so loud, but she heard noises from the LR all the way back to the bedroom. We have been in the same converter's other coaches and they were very quiet, so it was likely something on that particular coach needed to be adjusted or resecured.

The kinds of noises are what a buyer needs to be concerned about. Rattles from a loose cabinet door hinge are easily fixed and can affect every converter's coaches. Creaking sounds or rattles from cabinetry secured to the structure of the coach are less easily resolved. I have heard of some cabinetry coming loose because it was secured only to the inner wall lining and not coach structure. Those types of noises are unacceptable because the crashing down of your wall cabinets is very distracting when you are driving.

[merle&louise]

Hey Gordon,

Before you buy a bus, test drive it on any road in Louisiana. If it doesn't rattle buy it!:D

[tdelorme]

Hey Gordon,

Before you buy a bus, test drive it on any road in Louisiana. If it doesn't rattle buy it!:D


Quit beating yourself up, Tuga. A lot of other states have caught up with La. and several have gone into the lead. Have you been through Jackson, Ms lately?? You would think the state capital would have decent roads, but Interstate 20 through Jackson is just stupid bad. I've started running I49 down to I10 just to avoid Jackson. Texas used to have some of the best highways anywhere but that has changed over the years as well.

[merle&louise]

Thanks Ted (I mean Mel), actually I-10 from Lafayette to Lake Charles has been re-surfaced and it is smooth (all but about 5 miles of it anyway).

Are you going to OKC rally! If so, hope we get to park next to you like in Sevierville. Thanks for the heads up on other state roads. We are used to being last in everything in Louisiana; except the bad things and then we are first!:D

But you know, I wouldn't want to live anywhere else:rolleyes:

[Sid Tuls]

I agree with Rick, if you do buy a bus that the converter has quit- make sure you have all the manuals and get some phone #s so you don't get ticked off when you do have a problem. I've owned my Thompson for 16 months and put on 40,000 miles and only had a few minor problems and none that left me stranded. The best thing about my Thompson is I can get Rick Thompson on the phone at any reasonable time. I'am sure there are others out there that have the same service. I would just get to know the people behind the scenes. Also try to get manuals with pictures it sure helps. I sure you will have a good time shopping!!

[dale farley]

I've had a Marathon and now have a Country Coach. I bought very little from either converter, because I get most things from other manufacturers. I got a full set of manuals with the CC and the Marathon.

My Country Coach was always serviced at Marathon and Prevost in Texas before I bought it. Marathon even did a major redo of the bedroom which involved matching the interior materials, and they did a great job. I think in most cases the "What Ifs" are worse than reality. Ya'll quit picking on the CC crowd!

[JIM KELLER]

Thanks Dale. I am very happy with my Country Coach and it has outperformed my expectations. With a little common sense and POG support most "what if;s " will be overcome.

[dale farley]

Jim, I am convinced that reagardless who the converter is, the most important aspect of support for our coaches is the knowledge we gain from this forum. I can't imagine owning a Prevost by any converter and not having the support of the POG.

[mike kerley]

We've had our CC conversion for almost five years and have yet to purchase any parts from CC and tried once, 4 years ago for tech support (when they were still going strong) and said "*&%^ this!" They had little interest in out of warranty customers

If another POGGER cant help you fix it another converter most likely can. CC does a fine job with their conversions, not perfect, but what is. I have yet to see two coaches from the same converter that were identical. They are constantly changing vendors on products they use inside and frequently changing the wiring harnesses, so get a coach with a manual and a wiring diagram and its repairable!

[flyu2there]

I too am pleased with the Country Coach, for the most part. The weak link in the system, I believe, is the mother and daughter boards (13-18 daughter boards in total) that occupy that dark area ahead of the plexi-glass in the forward belly. Everything, and I mean everything for the house side of the bus run through one or more sections of that monster. Fortunately the boards were out-sourced and replacement components are available, worst case is to have the thing reverse engineered in case of real trouble. Also, whoever designed these things, was smart enough to fuse everywhere which, in case of an unknown fault, a fuse is usually the cause albeit they are sometimes difficult to locate and even more difficult to change.

What saddens me is that Mills Manufacturing Company of Junction City has ceased to exist....actually for several years. They were the manufacturer of the premier plexi glass shield ;) The shield that so many of you dream about...gone! Oh well, so are the famous clear plastic seat covers manufactured by Fingerhut in the 60's.....common now you all remember those! I do have a good source for curb feelers if anyone is interested!

John

[adamdegraff]

I certainly agree with the general sentiment here that most things that need fixin' can be fixed with off the shelf items, converter non-specific. HOWEVER, I will say that I really enjoy the fact that I can call Marathon 24/7, get live help, and be talking to somebody on the other end of the phone that not only built my coach, but also has my specific coach information, down to the last wire and bolt, all up on their computer screen.

Having said that, and keeping in mind my well documented love for Marathon, I would not hesitate to buy a coach by a different converter if I really liked it. I think POG will help keep you on the road.

Good luck,

Adam

[Jerry Winchester]

John,

Unfortunately, there will be outsourced replacements for the plastic shields as well, so we were not so lucky to see them go away with the demise of Country Coach.

Dang.

[JIM KELLER]

Jerry, You want one dont you. Go ahead, get one. No one will make fun of you. Your coach will thank you and the reduction of dents on the front will increase your " TRADE IN VALUE. "

[rfoster]

I too am a happy CC owner. I would of course be happier if they weren't victim of the recessionary times and poor management.

Having said that here is my take on the Orphan thing. I would not be as imtimidated to purchase an orphan coach (as a newbee would be) knowing the knowledge and experience base that POG offers, and the best part-- its fun, and only cost 100 lew bucks annually. They are all on Prevost chassis so the house issues are the only concerns, they all have water pumps, water heaters, and refirgerators etc so the majority of the componets are not dependent on the converter. Outside of the mother boards on a CC why fear, POG is here.

With very knowledgeable folks in the business like Rick May at Parliament, or Troy at Liberty and I am sure many others-like Miles, A1, or Nick, we should be able to come up with Presidential solutions for any problem given enough time..

[Danss]

AMEN, Roger!

[Alek&Lucia]

Give me my Orphan Royale any day,

Alek

[GDeen]

Give me my Orphan Royale any day,

Alek

Talk to me Alek - there are a couple of very interesting Royales out there...

[Alek&Lucia]

Talk to me Alek - there are a couple of very interesting Royales out there...

Which ones ? Perhaps I know them,

Alek

[Jerry Winchester]

Alek,

I think that dog hair has you clogged. We need to quit jerking each other off here. Orphan coach is okay; supported coach is way better.

Having owned both, there is nother better than this;

JDUB - "Hello tech services, there is a clicking noise in the closet near relay #22"

Tech - "Go look under the passenger's seat and unplug the power wire labled 22"

JDUB - "Hey the clicking quit and I noticed the wire was bare and rubbing against the seat rail"

Tech - "Just tape or heat shrink it and that should fix it"

JDUB - "Great and would you send some sheep to the Krakman...."

However, this works too;

Truk4U - "Hello JDUB, there is a sheep sound in my (Marathon, Country Coach, Liberty) and my flashlight keeps shocking me."

JDUB - "WTF are you calling me while I am asleep in Libya?"

Truk4U - "I can't sleep cuz everytime I turn the lights off a mosquito starts buzzing."

JDUB - "It sucks to be you. Drink some more beer and call Jon."

Truk4U - "He won't take my calls anymore."

JDUB - "Call Sticky, his wife does the work on their bus, she'll help."

Truk4U - "JDUB, YOU DA MAN"

[Denny]

I have been very satisfied with my CC. All of the problems I have had, and there have not been many, are either Prevost or other vendors' products. As seen in the above posts, most CC owners are very happy with their buses while the non CC owners are the ones complaining about them.

I feel that with the large quantity of orphans in all brands and models of RVs, that there will be many small specialty service facilities opening in the future to provide service. The quality and ambitious techs will start their own shops to provide a living for themselves in the field they are most qualified in. We have seen a decline in manufacturers but not in total number of RVs. Those out there will still need service whether it be a pull behind or a Prevost.

[Alek&Lucia]

Talk to me Alek - there are a couple of very interesting Royales out there...


Alek,

I think that dog hair has you clogged. We need to quit jerking each other off here. Orphan coach is okay; supported coach is way better.

Jerry,

Royales have better support now than before thanks to Glen and Dan from www.RoyalePhoenix.com


Alek

[rbeecher]

Gordon,

Don't forget the Vogue built by Mitchell in Pryor,Oklahoma. These are a superbly built bus with any service you need able to be done with complete satisfaction at Parliament. Rick May knows these inside and out including all of the wiring.

You can also have the Vogue serviced by Tulsa RV if you are out west. Both Carl West and Jerry Nadine worked at the plant and know these coaches inside and out as well.

Richard Beecher
2002 Marathon XLII 45
1996 Vogue XL 40

[Jon Wehrenberg]

"I have been very satisfied with my CC. All of the problems I have had, and there have not been many, are either Prevost or other vendors' products. As seen in the above posts, most CC owners are very happy with their buses while the non CC owners are the ones complaining about them."

I have not been complaining about them, but I have been pointing out, and using CC as an example that there can be serious problems relating to the failure of some proprietary features. My only public comment about CC related to when they were in business and treated their customers like dirt. That was precipitated by the shabby treatment of Ray Davis but from the time we bought our first coach we saw first hand seriously pissed off CC owners who lacked support for their coaches. Insulting the company is not the same as insulting the product.

We can all acknowledge the chassis is well supported. The conversion however is another story. It cannot be supported by the converter if the converter does not exist or chooses to not be responsive. It is easy for me to target CC as the poster child for not supporting their product. I know CC owners do not like to hear that because it diminishes their value, but facts are facts. Ray Davis went through hell trying to get issues sorted out on his CC and that was when they were still operating. His final solution was to fly an expert to him, and compbined with two other CC owning POG members get a variety of issues on their coaches corrected.

Almost all of our coach conversions are 99% off the shelf components installed in the converter's cabinetry and interior decor. We don't need a converter to help us find a WW Grainger item. But for those of us that have as a central part of our coach operating system some proprietary devices or software we need a game plan in case that system has a glitch. My coach has proprietary programming for the PLCs that make all my internal switches function. If my converter goes away I have exactly the same problem CC owners have right now with the proprietary control boards.

Recognizing that potential problem is not damning the converter or the product, but is creating an awareness that in the future, if not now, someone, somewhere is going to have a failure, and when that occurs it has to be fixed. Getting it fixed may be as simple as finding the original vendor, locating a former converter tech, or reverse engineering the component. But acting like a coach working well today will continue to work well and ignoring the potential is dangerous. This group does have a high degree of expertise and those with CC conversions can form a coalition and gather what they need for the day when a problem occurs.

Those with coaches that do not use any proprietary devices or components only need to learn who made their widget and how to be able to buy that widget.

[GDeen]

Good stuff here fellas...

Good stuff from the CC owners on your coaches. Good to hear how satisfied you are - some very good looking CC's out there.

Jerry, excellent perspective on the difference in being able to call the builder and get a quick turnaround vs. spending time chasing a solution.

Jon, the proprietary interfaces is what concerns me most. Perhaps that is because I am intimidated by circuit boards etc (hard to fix properly with an 8 lb hammer).

Personally I would feel much more secure in having a coach I could call the convertor hotline 24/7 for troubleshooting. However, great looking highly featured "orphan" examples for real dollars less are what causes one to incur this type of review. Sometimes the best opportunities incur some risk eh?

[GDeen]

Alek, check out this 40' footer...

http://http://www.rvonline.com/single-ad.asp?Recnumber=43627&SearchMethod=1 (http://www.rvonline.com/single-ad.asp?Recnumber=43627&SearchMethod=1)

And this XLII bunk coach...

http://www.prevost-stuff.com/2001_prevost_royale_45_Panterra_Bunk.htm

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Gordon, You will know which bus is best only after you buy one;)

JIM

[GDeen]

Gordon, You will know which bus is best only after you buy one;)

JIM


Jim - so true! I am getting that distinct feeling.:)

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

And then when you finally get it, you will think OMG I should have bought the other one.

The only mistake I made in buying a bus is "I WAITED TOO LONG"

Now turn off the computer and go see the buses on your list.

Many have said it since, but whoever said it first was so right. "When you see the right bus for you, You Will Know It.

JIM

[rfoster]

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g31/parkwayautoofbristol/CIMG3390.jpg

Jdub to Truckman: Man, look at that plastic shield! I sure would like one of those.

<a href="http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g31/parkwayautoofbristol/?action=view&current=CIMG3563.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g31/parkwayautoofbristol/CIMG3563.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Truk to Jdub: You mean like Mangos? Okay.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g31/parkwayautoofbristol/CIMG3562.jpg

Jdub: Could you put a little more bling on it to help it out?
Truk: You mean like this?

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g31/parkwayautoofbristol/CIMG3573.jpg

Jdub: Yea, that's it. I am in.

[JIM KELLER]

Roger, Your Post Brought A Grin To My Face ! Thanks.

[truk4u]

Good post King! Jdub and Mango are still searching e-bay for that perfect plastic shield, but Fly Dude spread a little pee on their fire telling them the plastic shield company is DOA.;)

They want the shield bad, but just don't have the gnads to admit it! Rumor has it that Jdub is sending smoke signals to Marathon about a bra for his turdmobile.:eek:

[flyu2there]

Truk,

You are spot on...I was thinking of buying all 4.00 of the assets of Mills Manufacturing Company, the supreme purveyor of plastic shields.

I am also thinking that curb finders (feelers), port a walls, full moon disc hub caps, flames, lake pipes, bug reflectors, and Desert Water Bags still have a market.

Watch out, I may be a POG sponser soon.....:D

Hecho in Mumbai

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

John, you get porta walls and the outside sun visor for across the front wind shield, you let me know.

JIM

[lewpopp]

Beech,

First of all, understand that I believe that the Parliament Coach is a fine and well engineered vehicle.

Do you recall the ads at the back of the FMCA magazine that Parliament put in about servicing the Vogue coaches. something about we service alol makes and models of Prevost Coaches except the Vogues made by Vantare. Vantare screwed the Mitchells over and Harvey didn't want any of their Vogues in his shop. He has since discontinued those ideas and will fix all Voges whether he converted them or not.

Just beware of the Vogues made by Vantare if for any other reason why Harvey was refusing them.

[MangoMike]

Fast Roger:

Your comments will certainly stir those famous rally words.

"MICK, WE'VE BEEN HIT!"

Love,
Mango Mike

[Danss]

My Vogue has been serviced by Parliment several times. Vogues were made by the Mitchell group who now have Parliment. As far as I know neither has anything to do with Vantare. Dan

[CAPT MOGUL & Sandy]

Gordon, Ed and I drove this bus in Angola last summer. Very nice but we had one cost factor that detoured us. The windows will need to be replaced through out. And the windows may not be available for awhile due to some manufacture problem. The price has come down but the owner at the time we saw it wasn't willing to negotiate down at all. It has been on the market for awhile. Drove nicely. Prevost indicated to us that this particular bus was one of the first or second XLII buses they had built. My personal reason that I didn't want it was a woman's view---the bus had been used alot by the owners children(for partying) and I don't think that they ever cleaned any of the wood in the interior. Of course, these are things that could have been replaced. But, I have a saying, if you can see clearly that cleaning wasn't done much, what about the things you CAN'T see???????
Sandy

Gordon, I was referring to the XLII Royale with the bunks.

[lewpopp]

Danss,

contrary to what you know, Vantare bought the rights to Vogue from Mitchell and screwed Mitchell to the wall as they do everyone. Mitchell took it back through some further negotiations.

Consider yourself informed, I rest my case.

[Danss]

Amen, brother

[jelmore]

There was once a transition time between the Vogue brand and the Vantare brand. We had looked at a Vantare that was made in Pryor, Oklahoma at the Vogue factory. Featherlite has just bought out Vogue and this particular coach's owner had the choice of a Vogue or Vantare badge and he chose Vantare. That's the story I heard. I've talked to people that worked at Vogue and they confirmed stories like that around the 2000 model year. I would guess there is very little difference between the brands in that era.

[rbeecher]

I can't confirm this but my understanding is all the Mitchell built Vogues have cabinets installed tight up against the ceiling whereas the Featherlite Vantare Vogues have a space between the cabinets and the ceiling. Why the difference I have no idea.

Richard Beecher
02 Marathon XLII 45
96 Vogue XL 40 for sale

[rbeecher]

Lew,

I asked what was happening to the Vogue name when Amadas bought Vantare, I think there was a big shrug of the shoulders. I had also heard Parliament looked into the Vogue name quite sometime after the Featherlite purchase but it didn't happen at that time. When did you hear the information Mitchell had the rights to the name again?

Richard

[GDeen]

Gordon, Ed and I drove this bus in Angola last summer. Very nice but we had one cost factor that detoured us. The windows will need to be replaced through out. And the windows may not be available for awhile due to some manufacture problem. The price has come down but the owner at the time we saw it wasn't willing to negotiate down at all. It has been on the market for awhile. Drove nicely. Prevost indicated to us that this particular bus was one of the first or second XLII buses they had built. My personal reason that I didn't want it was a woman's view---the bus had been used alot by the owners children(for partying) and I don't think that they ever cleaned any of the wood in the interior. Of course, these are things that could have been replaced. But, I have a saying, if you can see clearly that cleaning wasn't done much, what about the things you CAN'T see???????
Sandy

Gordon, I was referring to the XLII Royale with the bunks.

Thanks for the info Sandy - I figured out you were referring to the XLII bunk coach. No thanks on the window replacement, etc. Marathon Dallas has a nicer looking 2 slide XLII Royale that is probably worth looking into.

Jenny and I looked at a beautiful 04 CC yesterday. What a beauty it is. Flying to LA in the morning and going to drop by California Coach and check out Steve's inventory on our way to visit our son at Cal-Poly SLO. Should be a fun week.:D

[Alek&Lucia]

Gordon,

Sandy answered your questions for me, about the XLII Royale with bunk beds.
Check also the XLII Country at Ebay right now. It is for sale by Chad that is working for Marathon in Texas. Good person,

Alek

[GDeen]

Gordon,

Sandy answered your questions for me, about the XLII Royale with bunk beds.
Check also the XLII Country at Ebay right now. It is for sale by Chad that is working for Marathon in Texas. Good person,

Alek

That is actually the one I looked at Alek....

[lewpopp]

Beech,

I either mis-spoke or didn't write the facts. Either way, I guess I don't know the final outcome but I heard that it was finally either worked out or grounded. Sorry.

[mikedee]

I have had very good luck with my 2001 Royale. Built well without frills. Monaco dealers have most small parts. Today I needed a door latch and went to Monaco Las Vegas and got one and three spares for $15.00.

Good luck, you will love a Prevost

[flyu2there]

Country Coach evidently is alive and well..........

"Luxury motor coach manufacturer Country Coach
is pleased to announce that its principle secured
debt holders have come to terms and new
reorganization financing will be made available.
With the support of Wells Fargo as the Company's
primary secured creditor, and Bryant Riley as the leader of the Company's investor group, Country Coach is positioned to resume operations. The Company would also like to give special thanks to Ron Lee of Lee Joint Ventures, Company founder Bob Lee, and his wife Terry Lee for their valuable support.



"Company CEO & President Jay Howard expressed gratitude to those who have assisted in the re-emergence of this preeminent Company and brand. "Our loyal employees, customers and suppliers deserve our heart felt appreciation for their steadfastness in our times of trouble. Ultimately, our biggest debt of gratitude is owed to Wells Fargo Bank, who is providing the financing for the re-birth of Country Coach as they recognize the value of financially supporting American manufacturing in the Pacific Northwest."

Next week, Country Coach plans to present details of their forward-going plan to the court. Also next week, the Company will release a comprehensive update to their interactive website, www.countrycoach.com.

Mr. Howard stressed the fundamental common sense of the plan, and how it benefits all stakeholders."

[merle&louise]

That is great news! Glad that Wells Fargo came thru with the financing. Hope everyone @ CC is re-hired and they pick up where they left off. I know all CC owners on this site are happy about this great news.:D

[dale farley]

This is good news. I was just telling the others here at the Mobile rally about it, and Roger says he is raising the price on his bus. I guess this means we have been reinstated to the CC family and are no longer ophans.

[Denny]

I believe in being Born Again and now CC is born again! Glad to hear this and not be an orphan anymore.

[garyde]

Wells Fargo probably owns the whole Company but can not operate it. They are probably going to whittle down the assests thru selling portions of the company slowly rather than a full licquidation. I doubt anyone put up any new money. The owners bought time, but not much I think.

[flyu2there]

Wells Fargo probably owns the whole Company but can not operate it. They are probably going to whittle down the assests thru selling portions of the company slowly rather than a full licquidation. I doubt anyone put up any new money. The owners bought time, but not much I think.

Gary,

While I am certain that there are bankers that would like to do as you describe, it is not quite ethical and certainly not legal for them to do so.
Remember that CC is in Chapter 11 bankruptcy and as such their emergence will be regulated by and approved by the Court.

What happened to Country Coach could easily happen to any company in the current economic climate. True, the recent management apparently has not focused on the customer/consumer relations however I would suspect with this revival that issue will change.

[Petervs]

Even if Country Coach is still in business it does not mean that there are any customers who are ready to walk into their dealership's doors and plunk down $500,000 from their 401k plan to buy a new coach. Or maybe they decide to finance it. Then they need to plunk down $100,000 and find a bank to lend them the rest. There might not be one now.

I agree, all they did was buy a little time. Few employees will be hired back, few coaches will be built and sold, but the company can be dismantled with a higher return on assets, maybe.

[flyu2there]

Peter

Understand the logic however, the same can be applied to every motor home manufacturer and convertor out there. Big difference here is that CC had to present a plan that was viable to the lender and to every other creditor they have, then it has to be approved by the Court. Obviously someone with considerable more saavy than most of us on this forum, has agreed.

Makes no sense to obtain financing in hopes that someone will get a better price to piece the business out at some point in the future.

No doubt there will be some changes in CC but to speculate on whom, what and where is just that...speculation without one iota of information or fact.

Personally, I wish them the best! It troubles me to read, nearly every day now, how some company or organization has fallen victim to this recession. Any trained economist will tell you that the economy, a living and breathing thing, is greatly impacted by its participants. Only once all of begin to feel that the economy is improving will things get better.

[Sid Tuls]

Peter

Understand the logic however, the same can be applied to every motor home manufacturer and convertor out there. Big difference here is that CC had to present a plan that was viable to the lender and to every other creditor they have, then it has to be approved by the Court. Obviously someone with considerable more saavy than most of us on this forum, has agreed.

Makes no sense to obtain financing in hopes that someone will get a better price to piece the business out at some point in the future.

No doubt there will be some changes in CC but to speculate on whom, what and where is just that...speculation without one iota of information or fact.

Personally, I wish them the best! It troubles me to read, nearly every day now, how some company or organization has fallen victim to this recession. Any trained economist will tell you that the economy, a living and breathing thing, is greatly impacted by its participants. Only once all of begin to feel that the economy is improving will things get better. I agree in 2012 when we have "CHANGE"

[Petervs]

Fly UThere, I still see no customers with money to spend, so there is no way they can be profitable. I think this way they can dismantle the company in a more orderly fashion and end up with a little bit more money than a total write off of monies owed to all creditors now.

And Sid, are you inferring that you believe the current administration can not solve the economic woes of this country and only if the Republicans regain being in charge in 2012 then you might believe there is hope? To me that is absurd. The present administration did not make this mess, they may or may not be able to solve it, but it is my wish, hope and desire that they can for the good of us all. Since they have been in charge for barely 2 months I am still willing to support their effort. Maybe if we all focus on what is good for America rather than one party or the other we can solve the problem faster?

I certainly hope there is a light at the end of the tunnel before 4 years goes by.

[flyu2there]

Fly UThere, I still see no customers with money to spend, so there is no way they can be profitable. I think this way they can dismantle the company in a more orderly fashion and end up with a little bit more money than a total write off of monies owed to all creditors now.



Peter,

First, bankruptcy laws don't quite work that way! Second, if they were going to dismantle the company it would already have been done.

Truth is, there is pleanty of money out there! Downfall is that those who have it are not spending it and those who may need to borrow just cannot qualify. Personally I think a great deal of this financial mess has been caused by mark to market and with a stroke of a pen................tight money could be greatly reduced.

Hopefully, this will all change and soon! It's not just Country Coach, it is every single motor home manufacturer, converter, automobile manufacturer, home builder or what have you that is having a tough time in this market.

[Sid Tuls]

Good afternoon Peter, Just one thought I like to share with you. Our new President Obama stated that Abe Lincoln is his favorite president and here is a quote from Abe Lincoln " You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by encouraging class hatred. You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than you earn. You cannot build character and courage by taking away man's initiative and independence. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves".

[garyde]

Time will tell on the Country Coach restructuring, but I'm not 'all-in' on the Obama big Govt. solution.

[lewpopp]

Gee Sid,

How about a few negatives. With all of the answers or statements you made, we should listen to you, right?

[rickdesilva]

well said Sid and Flyu2there!

[Sid Tuls]

Hi Lew, just wanted to put my 2 cents in. I think all of us on this site wants whats best for our Country and free programs ain't going to do it.

[Victor Dimera]

Gee Sid,

How about a few negatives. With all of the answers or statements you made, we should listen to you, right?

I have to say from everything I have ever read on this board, this statement is like something calling something black. Oh yeah, the pot and the kettle. Maybe there should be a POG Negative Award given out. Looks like we got ourselves some competition here boys. Two real deserving heavyweights. I would still vote for the near TBC member. :D

[truk4u]

Fanny & Freddy failed because of that nut case Barney Frank and his buddies in Congress. Remember, they had two years to screw that up real good!:mad:The Socialists give away won't solve the problem..

Here we go boy's, Politics, you may want to dump this whole thread Skiffer..:p

[GDeen]

.....and to think it started off on a good informative note about Orphan Coaches!:eek:

Sid, my man, is all I have to say.

[BrianE]

Our new President Obama stated that Abe Lincoln is his favorite president and here is a quote from Abe Lincoln:

I would doubt there are many of our POG friends who would disagree with President Lincolns' words. If our current President wishes to follow the wonderful example left by Honest Abe, he has almost 4 years to prove it. I for one wish him every success. The office of the President of the United States deserves our respect. The man that sits in that office has an equal opportunity to earn it.

[Coloradobus]

Very well said BrianE. Gentlemen, holster those pointing fingers. We are in this messy situation, together. We all must work hard to get "US" back on its competitve feet.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Back before no documentation mortgages and no money down mortgages you needed to fit into very specific parameters to buy a house. A 42% income to expense ratio, 2 years on the job verifiable a credit score of X or above and prove where the down payment money came from. All good things.

Now we are back to that and that is a good thing too.

Bureaucrats changed the rules to allow that crap and now they point fingers.

The appraisers should all be thrown in jail. They are suppose to give a value based on predominant value and should not be aware of the asking price before hand. They are bought and paid for by Fannie and Freddie and for a decade artificially overinflated values so the whole industry could benefit from the refinance profits taking advantage of the foolish new rules imposed by gov.

It took a decade to get here and it will take a significant amount of time to straighten itself out.

[Will Garner]

Joe,

We wanted to do a rehab project on our house several years ago. When the appraiser came out she asked us how much money we needed so she could make the appraisal high enough for us to get what we wanted.;) I told her to appraise the house straight up and the numbers would have to speak for themselves.:cool:

Needless to say we have not used nor recommended that anyone else use this appraiser.:mad:

[Sid Tuls]

Very well said BrianE. Gentlemen, holster those pointing fingers. We are in this messy situation, together. We all must work hard to get "US" back on its competitve feet.

Jim, I notice that you said your getting 8 mpg. Are you towing and also what speed are you going at? I at best get 6.2 towing and drive about 70-75 on the flat open spaces I do have a few pretty good climbs like the graprvine in Ca. and Flaggstaff,Az. Thanks

[phorner]

Sid,

I doubt that you will ever see much improvement in your MPG if you routinely cruise at 70 - 75 mph. Especially towing at that speed.

I usually cruise at 65 mph, towing a Jeep Liberty, and I see a consistent 7.8 to 8.0 mpg.

If you want to save fuel, you're gonna have to slow it down a bit....

[Orren Zook]

Sid,

I doubt that you will ever see much improvement in your MPG if you routinely cruise at 70 - 75 mph. Especially towing at that speed. I usually cruise at 65 mph, towing a Jeep Liberty, and I see a consistent 7.8 to 8.0 mpg.
If you want to save fuel, you're gonna have to slow it down a bit....

How true, I got my best mileage ever running with Jon to Spearfish (6.2 mpg).

[Jon Wehrenberg]

What a coincidence. 6.2 at 62.

Speed, weight, and headwinds are the greatest factors influencing our mileage. Slow down, weigh less, and hope for no headwinds and maybe a tailwind.

Hills will also eat into the mileage. The amount of fuel you save going downhill is almost never enough to offset all the fuel used to climb thwe same hill.

To oysterfest and back, 1060 miles, 7.75 mpg according to the ProDriver which was reset just before the trip. The toad on this trip was the H2 Hummer.

[Orren Zook]

What a coincidence. 6.2 at 62.

Speed, weight, and headwinds are the greatest factors influencing our mileage. Slow down, weigh less, and hope for no headwinds and maybe a tailwind.

Hills will also eat into the mileage. The amount of fuel you save going downhill is almost never enough to offset all the fuel used to climb thwe same hill.

To oysterfest and back, 1060 miles, 7.75 mpg according to the ProDriver which was reset just before the trip. The toad on this trip was the H2 Hummer.

not to mention that I drafted you most of the way.....

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Orren is being polite.......he was pushing me most of the way.

[Orren Zook]

Fleetwood Files for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy

Fleetwood Enterprises Inc., Riverside, Calif., has filed voluntary Chapter 11 petitions for itself and certain operating subsidiaries in the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Central District of California.

Fleetwood said its motorhome and manufactured housing businesses will continue to operate while the company seeks buyers for these business units. While Fleetwood said it believes it has sufficient cash to operate its businesses in the immediate term, the company is in discussions with its senior secured lenders for new, debtor-in-possession (DIP) financing to supplement existing working capital. As of Jan. 25, the company said it had bank cash of about $23.0 million.

The filing also facilitates the closing of Fleetwood’s travel trailer division, which the company is in the process of shutting down. Fleetwood said the division accounted for losses of $65.3 million in 2007 and $16.8 million in 2008. The division closing affects three manufacturing facilities and two service facilities employing about 675 people. The company also is laying off an additional 65 corporate employees.

Fleetwood’s actions come after two other large Oregon-based RV manufacturers, Country Coach and Monaco Coach Corp., were placed in Chapter 11 bankruptcy in early March.

[Will Garner]

Jon,

With all the reports coming from Mobile just how do you expect to "reduce weight" of your coach going back to Knoxville so you can maintain that 6.2 miles per gallon? Inquiring minds need to know!

See ya in OKC.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jet Propulsion...............

[Coloradobus]

We took at quick triip last week to Fernley, NV (2,047 round trip, via I-80) and the coach's DDEC calculated an even 8 mpg for the total trip. The best part tho, was diesel was less than gas in Fernley!!!

[Will Garner]

Jon,

Good one. Just make sure the "gas" is not too high an octane. I'd hate to see you with burnt valves or worse a piston with a hole in it. Of course that would afford you the opportunity to post pictures of the engine removal, rebuild, and reinstall.

Just trying to make lemonade out of a lemon.

Later ...

[hillndale]

Ok, there are some pretty good deals out there on coaches from some of the now shuttered convertors. Just curious for input from those of you who own one, have owned one, or worked on one about:


Country Coach
Royal
Vantare
Angola


My preference is to go with a Marathon or Liberty, but there are lots of nice looking examples of some of the above available. General comments about orphan coaches appreciated as well as specifics relative to:


quality of conversion
complication of systems
service folks still around who know systems
parts availability in future


Thanks!


I'm pretty sure Vantare (Featherlite) is not considered an Orphan. I believe they were bought out by Amadas and are continuing to build coaches. I was at the plant in Sanford a couple of weeks ago and it looked like their production was alive and well. I think they had about 6 coaches under construction.
PS: Very nice workmanship from what i could see.

[dale farley]

I am quite sure that most of the Country Coach owners are very pleased with their coaches. I have only bought some light bulbs from CC. All other things that I've needed, I purchased straight from the original vendor or an after-market source.

When I had a Marathon, the technical support was better, but I didn't purchase any parts from them, because their prices were extremely high compared to other sources. An example of that is the shocks that I replaced. I called Marathon, and they wanted $200+ for each shock. I bought them direct from Prevost for less than $40 each.

Most Country Coaches come with a Prevost Parts Manual, a Service Manual, and a CC Owner's manual that contains drawings and schematics of virtually all systems on the bus. Mine also has an accordion file with manuals for such components as refrigerator, audio/video, Webasto, security system, etc. There have been only a couple documents I could not find, and that information was misplaced by the previous owner.

There were some things that I liked better on the Marathon and some on the CC. If I were looking for another coach, I would not hesitate to buy another CC. I would find a coach that suited my check book and my needs/wants and buy it. Regardless of the converter, when you peel away the interior, you will still find a Prevost.