Fuel Tank Ball Check Valve Modification

[jimshoen]

Doe anyone know if the Fuel Tank Ball Check Valve Modification, Prevost (IS-98080B) works on a 1997 XLV.
The problem has been fuel spitting out of filler when the hose shuts off.
It is a minor inconvenience, but I've had enough at this point.
Prevost Tech Rep recommends the installation of Kit #032413 ($519.56 + misc stuff Locktite). Claims this is the fix.
Instruction Sheet is attached.
Thanks

[Jon Wehrenberg]

When I bitched rather loudly about this problem at a rally that had Prevost reps there I was told it should not happen.

Then I was told, well maybe your bus does not have the mod. So the rep advised me I would get the kit in the mail. That was three years ago and since the mail is usually slow, I assume it will be here any day now.

In the meantime I plug in the fuel filler nozzle, set it at the intermediate speed on both sides and let'er rip. Sometimes the burp of fuel is just that. A minor little splash. Hardly worth mentioning.

Sometimes not a single drop is emitted. And sometimes that sucker pukes a whole bunch. I wear my rattiest shoes, I stay at least 4 feet away from the tank fill ports, and I accept whatever happens. Ironically the thing pukes long before it is full. But from experience I know that if I attempt to add even another quart it will end up on my shoes so I accept what is in the tank and head on down the road leaving a wet spot at the pumps.

When I had the single side fill (passenger side only) it never puked. This is the Prevost engineering way to give us the finger for having to design a two side fill. I wonder if the EPA could force Prevost to do a recall for an upgrade at their expense. Anybody want to try?:D

[jimshoen]

My fill up experience is exactly the same. I usually manuever the 5 gallon pail of windshield washing fluid and sponge/wiper to the side of bus to wash off the fuel. The result is a big mess on the ground and a bus that looks like sh__.
Regarding the EPA, I'd just as soon leave them be.

[phorner]

The next guy using that sponge/wiper to wash his windshield will probably not appreciate the sponge/wiper full of diesel fuel.

But I understand your frustration......

[merle&louise]

Would wrapping the fuel filler nozzle with an old rag stop the diesel from puking out. At the very least, it would be confined to the filler pipe!:)

Just a thought!

[lewpopp]

Jim, you're the SOB that washed the fuel off your coach at the pump with the windhield spongestick and bucket. I've been looking for you for a long time. That's just not nice, can I say it any better?

[adamdegraff]

Jim, I gotta say, that looks like a real pain to retrofit. I have purchased over 6,000 gallons of fuel in the last 6 months and can tell you that, in my experience, if you take a fist full of paper towels and jam them in under, around, and above the fuel nozzle, and then kind of close the door, so as to hold the paper towel in kinda tight, you can avoid any spillage. I also keep a pair of old, easy on/off shoes and a pair of heavy duty chemical gloves in a plastic bin in the first bay. So, my routine might look a little funny, waste paper towels, and take an extra minute, but thus far, I have avoided getting diesel on me, on the bus, and more importantly, in the bus for all to smell. But the retrofit would definitely be better.... save for the time to make it so.

Good luck. If it goes well, I'll come park at your place next Halloween and you can show me how to do it :-)

Adam

[dreamchasers]

Jim,

I use the technique that Adam uses except I wrap an old towel, I keep in the entry step storage specifically for that purpose, around the nozzle. It might not be the most glamorous, but it is effective.

Hector

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I want to be clear on this. If my thinking is wrong I hope someone will correct it.

We buy a bus that costs a little over a gazillion dollars. It costs so much because it is the best of the best. Then we all start comparing notes and we find each of us has thrown away at least one pair of fuel soaked shoes, spent hours cleaning diesel spill from the sides of our bus, and to stop the pain we think it is appropriate to spend even more money to buy a kit from the folks that couldn't design the fuel fill pipe correct in the first place.

Did I get that right?

[phorner]

Jon,

Yep, that about sums it up.........

As an aside, I also use the paper-towel-stuffing method and it works most of the time to keep the mess to a minimum.

But it sure isn't pretty :(

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Eventually some of that crap everyone is using is is going to end up in the tank.

Everyone who needs one should order one of those refits and then everyone should refuse to pay for them.

Has anyone ever tried to open the opposing filler cap while fueling?

[phorner]

Tried it, Joe. Didn't help.

What's wierd is that every once in a while, maybe if the planets are aligned just right, the fuel nozzle will shut off as designed with nary a spilled drop.

Only worked perfectly a couple of time and when it did it was like "WOW" :D

[Jon Wehrenberg]

If you go to the RV fueling island at the "J", or the car diesel island at a gas station and set the nozzle so it flows a little faster than Lew does when he pees in the morning you will not have it puke and the tanks will get really full like they are intended.

But pack a lunch because you will be there for a while, and every $75 the pump will shut off so you need to keep swiping your credit card to restart the pump.

The good news in doing that is that you will have plenty of time to wander around the convenience store, you get credit card price the same as cash, and you don't have to wait in line for all those truckers to get fueled before you get to the pump.

[flyu2there]

Question......are you filling from both sides or just one? I have not had the problem with the Prevost which Country Coach was kind enough to leave only one fill port, on the starboard side, the left one has been used for the electrical cable. My last Country Coach, a plastic one, I could fill from both sides and it puked with the best of them, my fix was to guesstimate the amount of fuel needed and back off by 15 gallons to the slowest position available, all this while filling from only one side, the left side, with the right filler cap unscrewed....that seemed to resolve most of the issue, not sure if it was from the additional venting or the deliberate slow.

The Prevost, I still guess and get close to the amount of fuel needed and slow 15 or so gallons before reaching that number. The trouble now is that I use the satellite pump which doesn't say sh%t about quantity pumped so I get to jog around the bus several times in wet diesel from other incidents ......and it is slippery! I haven't gone ass over tea kettle yet but have had several near misses. While I haven't taken a diesel shower lately, I have liquidated a number of shoes, rubber soles appear to be the worst and the most dangerous when running around the bus.

John

[Ray Davis]

It seems to be limited to the tanks with dual fills. Both of my 40 foot coaches (single fills) never did puke. I got initiated into this club with my current coach.

My current technique is to monitor what the Pro-Driver says I've used, and then try to shut it down to very slow about 10 gallons prior. That sort of works, but is tedious at best.

ray

[flyu2there]

Ray,

Good to know! Might one to try my old Country coach technique but, as previously mentioned use the one on the left side to avoid the run around:D

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

I almost always, pull into the RV island at the J.

Always cheaper than the truck island, cause they pay over the road tax with their fuel.

Usually a shorter line than the truck island, & Peg takes the AmEx & the Flying J Card into the cashier where she turns on both island pumps, and I pump into both sides without having the pump turn off @ $75 numerous times.

Yes it takes a little longer, cause the nozzle is smaller, but the burp out of diesel is quite a bit less if there is any, because of the lower flow rate.

It works for me. :)

Gary S.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Doe anyone know if the Fuel Tank Ball Check Valve Modification, Prevost (IS-98080B) works on a 1997 XLV.
The problem has been fuel spitting out of filler when the hose shuts off.
It is a minor inconvenience, but I've had enough at this point.
Prevost Tech Rep recommends the installation of Kit #032413 ($519.56 + misc stuff Locktite). Claims this is the fix.
Instruction Sheet is attached.
Thanks


This is a side question.

How does one attach a PDF file as Jim has done in his post??

Also wondering how to place PDF files into the bookmarks list.

JIM

[truk4u]

Get a 40' you cry babies and you won't get stinky!:D

No spill, never, never...:cool:

Jon - You remember we posed that question at Sevierville to Bill Jensen and he explained on the 45's, it had to do with the placement of the fuel fill when the tanks were built.

[jimshoen]

Below find my e-mail to the Prevost Service Manager.
This will help Jon sleep better.

To: Jensen William
Subject: July 1996 XLV Conversion

Dear William,
I own a July 1996 build XLV that was converted by Marathon.
The coach has a fueling problem where it spits fuel out of the filler neck just as the automatic nozzel shuts off.
Fernando, my Tech Rep, recommends I install the 'Fuel Tank Ball Check Valve Update' (IS-98080B). I have read the Installation Guide and have two questions regarding the update.
1) After completing the update will I be able to fuel from both sides simultaneously and not have spillage?
2) Does the update reduce the fuel capacity of the tank?
Please advise.
Sincerely,
Jim Shoen

March 10, 2009

Mr. Shoen,

If the complete kit is installed you can fuel from either side without the splash back. To fuel from both sides of the tank at the same time the vent in the top of the tank would need to be large enough to vent the tank properly. I do not believe that we had that in mind in the tank design. It was just for fueling convenience from either side. But try it and you will see if the air can escape fast enough to keep both nozzles working.

Secondly the capacity of the tank does not change. All the tanks are rated at 85% capacity

I hope that this helps!!!

William Jensen | Service Manager, Shell Division



Prevost Car Inc.

3384 DeForest Circle

Mira Loma, CA 91752



Cell.: +1 800 997-7386 | Fax: +1 801 795-6003

william.jensen@volvo.com

[Jon Wehrenberg]

This is a secret between friends. Don't tell anybody.

There have been occasions when I wanted to do a long round trip without refueling. I know about the 85% and all that. I know that 15% unused space deals with the change in volume as the fuel heats up do to returned fuel.

But I also know if the tank pukes prematurely I can't get a full load of fuel. I recently did a trip that should have taken 40 gallons and I could not get it to take more than 19.1 gallons.

So when I want to squeeze the maximum amount before it pukes, if it pukes, I drop the one side of the bus down and fully raise the side I am fueling. Don't tell anybody. So far so good.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I just realized Bill Jensens response sounds strange. I know Prevost people such as Bill, salesmen, converters, and likely the engineers drive buses.

That means they are pulling into truck stops and refueling.

There are hoses on both sides of the fueling island. Would they not think it appropriate to stick a nozzle in each side for refueling? Have they not been splashed? Is Billl suggesting that venting the air as the tank fills is so slow it cannot keep up with two nozzles? All my fuel cans at home have a big nozzle, but a small 1/8 diameter vent hole. How small is the air vent that it will not allow 2 side fill.

Or is this response along the lines of what was told to Joe C about air bags which was later found to be incorrect?

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Jim I would trust your conclusions before those of Mr. Jensen, that letter was wasted ink. Asking him would compare to asking Cho-Cho Charlie for a Good-n-Plenty.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Joe, C. I am sorry but I disagree with your last statement completely. I believe from what little experience I have with my Bus, that Bill Jensen is VERY knowledgable and tells it like it is.

It may or may not make sense to some of us, but Honestly Joe, don't slap the only real Prevost Master we have to call on for our questions.

I will start a different thread ( slide Issue ) for why I think this way!

And Jon, your gas cans are venting air to allow the fuel out, Not, into the gas can, hense the smaller vent needed ? Maybe ?


Gary S.

[dreamchasers]

Joe,

I'm in your corner concerning Jensen. I spoke with him briefly in Seiverville last year and well let just say I agree with Joe. My results were ..??##@@


Hector

[Kenneth Brewer]

My two more unsolicited cents: After many, many tries, I am convinced that on our Prevost the venting capacity is insufficient to allow filling from both sides at the same time. While the vent will (seems to ) pass enough volume, the back pressure switch on the fuel pump nozzle trips and closes the fuel nozzle valve whether or not the handle is squeezed (open). I don't necessarily get a burp or barf because of this (I get that pretty often anyway with just one pump nozzle, and runined a pair of sneakers and pants), but I have never been able to get both nozzles to work at the same time . I know some may be able to do this, but I can't, so far every time from California to Florida. One or the other, not both. Comments on an easy legal way to fix this?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Ken,

I can pump both sides, full flow. But regardless of whether I have a single nozzle or two when the tank approaches full it will puke unless I have significantly reduced the flow rate, something not always possible.

I don't know if others experience this timing, but when the tank is seen as full by the nozzle, the nozzle will actually click off, followed in a split second by a rush of fuel. The fuel does not puke out first, ever. It is always after the nozzle has shut off.

I have an XL and your experience with an H3 might be different.

[phorner]

Jon,

My experiences have been just the same. I keep trying to get faster at removing the nozzle and getting the cap on..... but it's that 1 second delay between the shut off and the burp that I just can't beat !:eek:!

[lewpopp]

I'll bet if you had a contest to see if you could pull the nozzle after it clicked and then screwed the cap on, with the guys that change 4 tires on NASCAR, I'd bet we'd lose. We'd be fumblin' all the way and smell likegood ole "D" fuel for a long time.

[jack14r]

I had the same problem with my 2001 but somewhere along the line Prevost fixed the problem and the 05 and 08 will take fuel from both sides and not puke it out.Also when the fuel nozzle quits it is full.

[Toy Box]

Jon... I,too, get the fuel slosh sometimes when fueling. There seems to be no rhyme or reason, just sometimes. Also, I have been leaning the bus over on occasion to get the tank really full for specific trips. When I have tilted the bus over, I have never had a splash back.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

George, you may be on to something. I am going to start tipping the bus on every refuel and I will keep track of times it splashes out. I have tipped the bus but not paid attention to the frequency of splashes.

[Kenneth Brewer]

Ken,

I can pump both sides, full flow. But regardless of whether I have a single nozzle or two when the tank approaches full it will puke unless I have significantly reduced the flow rate, something not always possible.

I don't know if others experience this timing, but when the tank is seen as full by the nozzle, the nozzle will actually click off, followed in a split second by a rush of fuel. The fuel does not puke out first, ever. It is always after the nozzle has shut off.

I have an XL and your experience with an H3 might be different.

Well, to be honest, I think the puking happens (only?)when I try to top off the tank after the nozzle clicks off. At least, the last times I can remember. I know I stopped doing that after I doused myself and can't remember having the puke since.

[Kevin Erion]

OK, I think I know the answer but, tip so the high side is the fill side? Also make sure the low side is open for air?

[JIM KELLER]

Kevin, Danger, Danger. This procedure does not work ! It won't puke because it never gets full because it runs out the low side. I know.

[flyu2there]

George, you may be on to something. I am going to start tipping the bus on every refuel and I will keep track of times it splashes out. I have tipped the bus but not paid attention to the frequency of splashes.


You have way too much time on your hands, Jon :D

[Jon Wehrenberg]

What? You don't fuel your bus? Shouldn't you be looking for a plastic bra for the front of yours?

[Orren Zook]

Jeez, a simple fix would be to fill at the RV pump at the Flying J instead of the truck island. The volume from those pumps would never slosh back at you unless the was a malfunction in the nozzle and it didn't shut off. Or just use the first notch on the handle at 10 gallons a minute instead of full speed at 50 gpm.

[jimshoen]

Dear Members,
I am continuing my discussion with Bill Jensen at Prevost. PLEASE HELP ME.
Anyone who has a coach that pukes fuel while refueling, please send an e-mail to Bill Jensen and Maurice Gagne at william.jensen@volvo.com and maurice.gagne@volvo.com
Include in the e-mail the serial number of your coach. Some of the coaches were fixed under warrantee, but only if the owner complained to Prevost at that time. Since then Prevost has not repaired them. I do not believe Prevost understands the magnitude of the problem and they thought is was a random issue?
Thanks,
Jim

[dreamchasers]

Jim,

I sent an email. Thanks for the info.

Hector

[truk4u]

Orren,

Even at the RV Island on the first slow setting, it's going to puke almost every time.

[flyu2there]

I have been told that Winnebago's with V-10 Ford's do not do that...live with it!

[jimshoen]

Although it may only be a minor inconvenience to have these expensive vehicles spit fuel, the real problem it the fuel on the ground at the truck stop.
Spilling diesel on the ground may have been acceptable in the days gone by.
Prevost definitely knows what is happening, and they know it is a design problem.

[gmcbuffalo]

Outside of a inside baffle I don't think there is much that can be done. The problem as I see it is the fill hole is close to the level of the fuel when it gets close to full. The force or flow from the nosle creates a surface wave of fuel to the opposite side of the tank, which has to return towards the filling hole after it hit the far wall. Hence PUKE, wet feet, hands and stainless.

In other words an open bucket would do the same thing if a surface wave was created when the bucket got full.

GregM

[jimshoen]

Greg,
In addition to what you are explaining the filler neck on the other side is probably gaining fuel as the tank nears full. As that fuel comes back down by gravity, it helps the wave and spitting action.
However, the problem is fixable and for about $600 bucks and 1.5 to 2 days labor you will be good to go. Prevost has repaired many of these. I am sure some of the lucky POG'ers have the mod and may not even know it.
Join in with the complaining voices and send an e-mail to Bill Jensen.
See my earlier post on this thread.
Thanks to everyone who has taken some interest in this ridiculous problem.

[merle&louise]

Although it may only be a minor inconvenience to have these expensive vehicles spit fuel, the real problem it the fuel on the ground at the truck stop.
Spilling diesel on the ground may have been acceptable in the days gone by.
Prevost definitely knows what is happening, and they know it is a design problem.

Thank goodness we don't have any tree-huggers in POG.:D

The spotted owl population is surely suffering from this desimation of the environment. Talk about a carbon footprint.:eek:

[jimshoen]

That's not fair, A POG Newell owner picking on us Prevost owners.

[merle&louise]

Sorry Jim, I just couldn't resist:D

Hey, Newells have problems:

1. Shore power bay door leaks(rain gets in)
2. Granite floor tiles crack
3. Air leaks
4. Generator doesn't start when batteries are down

But like Prevost, they have many, many good qualities!

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Jim S, I sent Bill J. an email, but I wasn't "WAY HARSH" as JDUB would say, cause Bill J. has been great to me.

Thanks for the suggestion, lets see what happens.

Gary S.

[jimshoen]

I have no problem with Bill or Prevost. Just want them to fix my bus. Apparently they forgot to repair my coach when they were fixing all the others.