Entertainer vs. Motorhome

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Ken,

I don't know if you have become a student of buses, but typically a motorhome conversion can be identified because it will have awnings, a more elaborate paint design, and if a 45 footer it will have some extra overhang behind the tag axle.

An entertainer coach is often a solid color, possibly with a small design, usually has no awnings, and the overhang behind the tag is usually limited to the width of the radiator door.

There are other clues if you can get close enough, such as a wall behind the driver, four roof airs and often five, and the name of the owner and ICC number somewhere on the bottom of one of the bay doors. Most are leased so whoever is leasing it is identified.

[Jim Skiff]

New thread to discuss topic.

[GDeen]

Interesting point as I have looked at a number of pics online of entertainers - Staley Coach, etc. Obviously I am a newbie and have little experience, but my concerns about the entertainers would be:

abuse
smoke residue
other kinds of residue :eek:
poor construction (offbrand convertors)
high mileage
"industrial grade" materials rather than "homey" materials


Are these legitimate concerns??

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Gordon, all your concerns are possibilities, but not the rule.

Inspect and accept or reject.

Generally they are more utilitarian than luxurious, but they too are all different.
Good luck on your hunt.

If you have a vision, make a plan and stick to it. The right bus will come along, and you will know it when it does.
Just stay away from the likes of Katz and you'll be alright. ;)

JIM

[jelmore]

Gordon, if you're looking for an entertainer chassis, what we've found is most are very well taken care of, even by the small operators. They can't afford to be down. The stars expect everything to work and work well. The galleys are usually small and the bath arrangements are sometimes odd. There's one amongst us, 0533 Bruce and Pam, with an entertainer XL chassis. It's 6" taller with a single custom slide. It was converted by Marathon with a one-off interior designed by the previous owner. It is spectacular in materials, fit and finish. Bruce is a very good caretaker. Sometimes an entertainer conversion is simpler than a luxury coach conversion which could be an advantage depending on how you want to use it. And sometimes the electrical system is more robust than a luxury coach. And some people like having some bunks for kids. So, an entertainer isn't necessarily bad.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

My previous description was for visual differences.

As to the construction, layout, materials, and equipment the differences can be night and day.

An entertainer coach usually has a shell specifically designed for an entertainer conversion and the most notable difference is the length of the wheelbase. It is longer than a motorhome shell, usually to get more bay storage space, but also allegedly to improve the ride for those sleeping in the bunks.

There is a decidedly institutional feel to an entertainer coach. It is a tool, not a second (or even first) home. Its purpose is to transport a band, or techs and their equipment from venue to venue. While these folks undoubtedly respect and care for the coach, it is not generally something they own and it does not get the TLC the typical motorhome owner lavishes on the coach. As a result materials are selected for their durability.

The same goes for systems. Everything from the satellite dish to the AC units to the generator ro the inverters to the plumbing and electrical systems is robust and if a critical item may have back up. It is not unusual to see an entertainer coach with 5 AC units. Three likely will work OK, so the forth and the fifth are back-up in case something happens to one. Some entertainer coaches have two generators for that reason.

Often the coach is driven all night long. Because of that the area behind the driver may be walled off or may have drapes. This way the driver is not bothered by reflections of the front seating area bouncing off the windshield.

I would hope Rob or Wendi Russell would add their viewpoint to this.

[michaeldterry]

My first coach was an Eagle 10 Entertainer, that I bought from Barbara Mandrell when she retired from touring. Most everything previously said in this thread about the differences between entertainer and motorhome conversions is substantially accurate. More often than not, you will find that the entertainer coaches do not have showers, have seating rather than a bed in the rear lounge, and the galleys are usually small and basic (usually just a microwave, coffeemaker, smaller refrigerator, no cooktop). However, entertainer conversions in a "Star Coach" configuration will have fewer bunks (4-6, rather than 9-12), a shower, a rear "stateroom" with a bed and dressing facilities for the "star" and sometimes even a second private half bath (toilet).

Although I love my Prevost motorhome conversion, there are some things I miss about my old Eagle (after all, she was my first!). First, the legendary Eagle ride is unique and unsupassed in smoothness. I also miss the wall behind the driver/entry sections that insures quiet or at least that I can listen to the music that I prefer (rather than being forced to listen to whatever everyone else decides to watch on TV) - and also the lack of glare from the salon lights on the windshield at night (I hate having to keep asking my passengers to turn down the lights!). I also miss the mid-ship bunks for kids and others traveling with Vita and me. Our sofa in the front salon is comfortable to sleep one, but does not convert to a bed to accommodate additional "campers". I once saw a beautifully remanufactured Eagle that actually had a "bedroom" in the "basement" with it's own lighting, heating, and AC. Entry from inside the bus was a trapdoor in the floor on the curbside just in front of the galley.

Turning a well maintained entertainer coach into an awesome motorhome does not have to be a terribly expensive proposition. The modular construction of the newer entertainer interiors make the components very flexible to reconfigure for various preferences and applications. For instance, it can be almost a "plug and play" job for an experienced converter to remove a stack of bunks and replace it with a modular shower and closet space or additional galley appliances. Likewise, the rear lounge can often be easily reconfigured from seating to a master bedroom. A basic bunk to shower reconfiguration should be able to be accomplished for less than $10k by most converters. The same should be true for a rear salon reconfig - maybe more depending on how sophisticated you get with cabinetry and storage.

Finally, like most before me have said - crystalize your vision, make a plan, and stick to it. If you look at enough buses, the right one for you will come along and you'll recognize her when she does!

Good luck and happy hunting!

[Kevin Erion]

My first bus was a 99 Marathon XLV with 2 couches up front that I had built to my specs so when open they would make 1 bed larger than a California King. I have 3 girls, 8, 9 and 11 and when I would get up early and go outside I would have to be very careful not to step on someones leg or arm. The girls had no problem with this sleeping arrangement but dad thought there must be a better way. I discovered Marathon made 4 XLII non-slide bunk coaches. I found one that I could live with the interior colors and we bought it. A small Entertainer Co. in Texas had it for about 16 months, they bought it from the original owner that had used it as a family RV. I can only speak for the one I bought but it was used very hard during the 16 months and the owner looked at it to make $ so any PM stuff was not done, just what had to be to keep it running.
The good news is Marathon uses some of the best materials when they build so they wear very well and can be brought back from the dead. With a lot of TLC, I am very happy and proud of our bus and believe it looks like a very well cared for bus. It took lots and lots of hours to bring it back but now that it's done, it was very rewarding.
The interesting thing is the girls don't fight over the bunks, as a mater of fact, they don't care to much for them but I think (hope) that will change when they get to bring a friend on some road trips.
I would be a little concerned with some of the Entertainer buses but you have to look at each one and make sure it is what you want and the price is fare.

[GDeen]

Thanks for the input!

Our three boys are all out of the house, but still would like to travel with us some. We are also raising our niece who is now 13 and convinced she needs a bunk with TV and DVD. :) So, the bunk coaches or even a "star coach" are tempting. On the other hand, long term I don't want to settle in to travel mostly with my wife and a coach with unused bunks which take unused space. Quite a quandry.

[michaeldterry]

On the other hand, long term I don't want to settle in to travel mostly with my wife and a coach with unused bunks which take unused space. Quite a quandry.

Gordon,

As you continue to shop, check out the adjustable "condo" style bunk stacks in many of the newer entertainer star coach configurations. You'll find that these components are designed to be reconfigured, added, removed (stacked one high, two high, or three high) so that the user can have as many or as few bunks as needed with minimal "construction" (this is where the 'plug & play' conversion concept comes in). Bottom line - if you choose carefully, you can have the best of both worlds. I personally know tour coach operators who reconfigure their coaches for each different act based on the entertainers' preferences and needs.

The guys at Senators Coaches over in Florence, AL are reputable operators who have served some of the highest profile stars and entertainers for over 35 years. They maintain their coaches meticulously and continuosly update their rolling stock. They always have a few late model Prevost star coaches and traditional entertainers for sale via their web site. It might be worth your while to see what they've got as a starting point. They will be happy to answer any questions you may have (about a specific bus or general questions). The Senators website can be found at http://www.senatorscoach.com/. Of course, there are several dealers and brokers specializing in entertainer coach sourcing and resales. I'll be happy to provide a few personal references, if you need/want them - just e-mail me for those.

Good luck & happy hunting!

[GDeen]

Thanks for the info Michael. Nice looking coaches in their inventory for sure. Looks like one of the biggest deals one gives up with a "Star" coach is the kitchen. Most look like they are limited to microwave, fridge and sink with minimal counter space. Part of the compromise I suppose.

There is a nice looking late model XLII on www.Staleycoach.com right now which has the same deal - a limited kitchen. All the other features and layout look very nice though.

[michaeldterry]

Gordon - you're right about the minimal galley in any of the entertainer configurations. However, the same "condo" flexibility can apply here. By removing a row of bunks, you can add addtional galley space & appliances.

Staley always has some nice coaches. I would also encourage you to talk to John Spellings at http://www.busforsale.com, also in the Nashville area. As you might imagine, Nashville is a great place to shop for pre-owned entertainer coaches!

[Russell Coachworks]

Hello to everyone, Rob and Wendy Russell with Russell Coach Company and Russell Coachworks in Knoxville, TN. Thanks to Jon Wehrenberg for asking for our input. Also thanks to Jim Skiff for calling and requesting us to post a response.

We have owned and leased entertainer coaches to entertainers for over 14 years. We have built entertainer and motorhome conversions for almost 8 years. Below we will compare the entertainer v. motorhome from our viewpoint as we are involved with both. You are welcome to go to our website www.russellcoach.com and view floor plans for entertainer coaches and for motorhomes. The website will go into greater detail of specifics for each.

The motorhome world and entertainer world, as you are finding out, are apples and oranges. The only thing the two really share are that they are both on a Prevost chassis. Even the cost to the end user is much different. With our leasing company logging millions of miles over the years we are happy to share below a quick list of differences for you to consider.

1. Wheelbase
2. Fuel Tank Sizes
3. Both Entertainer and Motorhome may have bus air / over the road air but some do not
4. Entertainer units that do not have bus air typically have 2 generators and no inverter system. In this application the generator must run as you travel down the road. We have found in the past 14 years of business that this set up typically allows for better fuel economy, since you do not have to take horsepower from the main bus engine, to operate bus air and an auxiliary alternator to charge house batteries.
5. Motorhome units typically have 1 generator and a single, dual or quad inverter set up to be able to dry camp and conserve power from a shore power and generator consumption point of view.
6. Head room interior height is different (For XLII: Entertainer has 89" head room interior and the Motorhome has 86" head room interior) (For H3-45: The H3-45 offers an 83" head room interior being that it does not have an Entertainer or Motorhome model, it is typically referred to as VIP.) The H3-45 has taller luggage bays v. the XLII
7. Amenities are different. Examples are not limited to the following: Refrigerator sizes, entertainment centers, cooktops, coolers
8. Entertainer conversions usually have a more user friendly electrical operation. Example: On/Off rocker switches and momentary switches v. Motorhomes that may have Smart Systems.

We hope this information helps you. If you have additional questions feel free to call us or post a question and we will respond. If you would like you are also welcome to contact us via email through our website.

We are happy to help answer any questions and help you find the coach of your dreams!

Rob and Wendy Russell

[michaeldterry]

Bob and Wendy,

Thank you for your post! It's nice to have input directly from the pros! Even though I "grew up" on entertainer coaches over 25+ years as a musician/entertainer, my knowledge is strictly from the narrow view of my personal experience as an end user (as opposed to a builder/operator) and later as a personal use coach owner. In other words, I may know just enough to be "dangerous" (to myself and others - if they listen to me!) :p

So again, your expertise on this subject will certainly be appreciated by those looking for the straight scoop!

Best Regards,
Michael

[0533]

Thanks Jim for the nice plug.

533 is certainly unique but it is not an entertainer shell. The conversion and shell was ordered by the original owner and was specially designed with a special lifestyle in mind. Gourmet Kitchen was the number one priority along with simple high quality leathers and woods, not for everyone for sure.

The shell is 86" and there is no mirrored ceiling that might lower the overall ceiling height, this does make for more overall headroom in the living spaces, but all else is much as a Marathon Custom conversion would be other than the galley, Port lights and a few special design features.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Great shots Bruce.

[jelmore]

Bruce, thanks for clearing up a few things. I misunderstood what you told me. After I posted that, I received a note from "someone that knows" these things and he pointed out that your coach was not an entertainer chassis. Prevost offered an 86" XL shell vs. the standard 83" XL shell. You can tell by the number of ribs in the stainless below the windows. Yours has four, mine three. Thanks for posting the pictures.

[0533]

Your right about the ribs, wonder what the 89" ones have, extra space or another rib?

[GDeen]

Very interesting information from Russell Coachworks - thanks for taking the time to share the details. I guess someone had previously mentioned the difference in wheelbase but it hadn't stuck in my mind. The entertainers are truly a completely different animal starting with the shell itself, to the layout to the materials used and systems logic. Very interesting and good to know.

Bruce and Pam, that is a way cool looking bus.:)

[Russell Coachworks]

Regarding Pam & Bruce's post about the 89" headroom interior XLII: When the 89" headroom interior was introduced into the market in 2001 the only location of ribbed stainless sides were bay door stainless or from the top of the top turn signal to the bottom of the coach front to rear. Everything above the top turn signal from front to rear is smooth sides, no ribs at all.
I hope this helps and answers the question.

Michael: You said you were on the road for 25+ years...did you travel with various entertainers or with the same entertainer throughout the years or was it even an entertainer? Just curious as our roots are in the entertainer industry.

Have a great weekend to all!!!

Rob and Wendy Russell

[michaeldterry]

Michael: You said you were on the road for 25+ years...did you travel with various entertainers or with the same entertainer throughout the years or was it even an entertainer? Just curious as our roots are in the entertainer industry.



Rob - I was with various entertainers over the course of my music career. Basically, I considered myself a "road whore" because I often hired out to whoever stayed booked and made money! :p Mostly did regional AOR bands, along with stints as a sideman in several back-up bands for touring 50's/60's acts, C&W acts, and solo artists.

Best Regards,
Michael