I.F.S. Ball joints

[lonesome george]

I'm preparing to replace the upper A arm ball joints (bushings), don't have the new parts yet but from the tech information it looks like the bushing is not in a housing, it is supplied with the spacers and a circlip, the A arm is the housing, is this correct?

[Kevin Erion]

I replaced mine myself on a XLII, 2000 shell. I think they are the same and yes, the A-arm holds the bushing. You need to remove the A-arm from the bus and use a press to R&R the bushings. that was the only way I could get the new one's back in place.

[lonesome george]

Thanks for the info Kevin.
Is there a metal housing around the outside of the bushing? I'm trying to figure out if a press in tool is required to compress the outside of the bushing to install it, the sketch in the tech manual shows a tapperd sleeve to guide the bushing in, tool #683109. I have the A arms out now but don't want to push out the bushings until the new ones are in hand.
I'm trying to fix a thump in the front suspension when the bus rolls over small bumps at low speeds, the only thing I could find where the A arm bushing out of center a little and some bubber coming out of a couple of them. The bus has only 45K on it but rubber dose'nt care much about miles, time is the killer here.
Doing air springs and brake chambers all around while the thing is down.

[Kevin Erion]

George,
I don't think the round opening that the buching fits in has a taper, It is a snug fit and they want to expand when you push so that works against you. If you want to give me a call, 714-342-8588. any time.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Kevin do you think if the bushings were shrunk and hardened some by putting them in the freezer for a while prior to installation that might help.

What kind of a press did you use? A simple hydraulic shop press with an adjustable table?

[Kevin Erion]

Joe, just a shop press, I think the hard part was holding the A arm flush on the bottom of the press. I also did it myself and a 2nd pair on hands would have made it a lot easier.
I am not sure on the freezer part, I am not sure it would reduce the rubber but maybe would let it slide in a little easier.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Kind of related.......I used a little white grease to install my shocks and rather that try to beat them in place I used a large "C" clamp. It takes a lot of force to get the bushing on shocks over the mounting stud, but with the clamp they are quite easily pushed in place.

I also have a tool kit for inserting bushings that I got from Harbor Freight for $39, and I can use that to press things in place. The kit has several stepped inserts to hold the two parts parallel and square with relation to one another and I can use a wrench on that tool if tightening a "C" clamp is inadequate.

I've never monkeyed with IFS so take anything I say with a grain of salt.

[jelmore]

From our experience . . . Prevost Ft. Worth and Jacksonville won't press new bushings, they only replace the entire arm. Nashville presses bushings but if they fail, Nashville is the only shop that can fix it. And they're prone to go in not quite straight which causes some wear and a different occasional squeak. We had a lot of noise from the small connector(?) bushings throughout the front end. Replacing all of those was low cost and high return.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

A set of those a-arms new are almost 3500 with tax and shipping.

I'll bet the bushings aren't 100 bucks.

Getting them installed correctly is no doubt a vital factor.

Are you taking all this in Bri?

[jelmore]

The factory price for the bushings is $67.95 x 4. The labor for ours, which looks like a huge job by itself, was combined with replacing a king pin. The whole job was huge, almost 20 hours. I've heard truckers replace king pins all the time in much less time.

[Kevin Erion]

Now that I have done the job one time, I can't imagine needing more than one day to do both sides.
I think the bushings wear or look worn early is from extreme ride height changes when in level low, just a guess.

[jelmore]

We'll have about 9k miles on the set that Nashville did and I'll have a look while at Jacksonville in a couple of weeks. Caught them squeaking when they were cold. Ft. Worth thought they might need to be redone. I would guess that they are fine. Those shops are bit competitive some times.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Kevin that sounds logical to me.

[Darrell McCarley]

JOE...........What is the advantages of I.F.S.?

[jack14r]

Kevin,Are you saying that dumping the air could put stress on the ball joints?

[Kevin Erion]

Jack, they are not ball joints per say, they are rubber bushings that attach the upper A arm to the frame. I think the design is for normal up and down movement while driving. when you dump or overinflate they go past the range of motion from the original design.
This is just my opinion from what I saw when I had my front end apart!

[Joe Cannarozzi]

A tighter turning radius. A smother ride is up for debate.

The added cost up front and afterward over a straight axle is great. The added performance and improved ride is marginal IMO.

There are 3 right here who needed to replace the bushings already.

[Denny]

I needed bushing replaced on my bus and Prevost in New Jersey would not replace just the bushings but the whole A arm. Removing and replacing the bushing was more costly than replacing the complete A arm. It only took about an hour to remove and replace the new arm.

[JIM KELLER]

Jack, they are not ball joints per say, they are rubber bushings that attach the upper A arm to the frame. I think the design is for normal up and down movement while driving. when you dump or overinflate they go past the range of motion from the original design.
This is just my opinion from what I saw when I had my front end apart!

So, does this mean raising the Bus to sit it on jack stands to take weight off the tires to save the tires while in storage compromises other parts ?