Frozen and left for dead @ Prevost Nashville

[blacklab]

I left my coach at Prevost Nashville in early November for maintenance work. I picked up the coach this Saturday. Needless to say I was surprised to find the coach water systems FROZEN and ALL batteries dead. They did have it plugged into shore power but failed to switch on the main breaker! (In the same bay as the glendinning in/out switch and not hidden) No one from Prevost works on Saturday's so there was no one there for assistance. I got lucky when the driver of an entertainer coach showed up (parked next to me) and he had TWO 20' jumper cables. After 1/2 hour we got it started. I let it warm up and turned on the Aquahot. In about 1 1/2 hours I was able to get water to trickel out of the sinks and found no leaks (to date) except for the toilet. The plastic valves broke. I ran the gen all the way home, and never shut down the engine. It's now stored in my heated warehouse now and I am keeping a close eye on leakage from the holding tanks. Can I assume that all batteries are shot or will they come back. What about future problems with any/all water systems/tanks. What would you do............?? BTW, George from Nashville did apologize.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

As for the batteries they for sure did them no good. At best they're longevity was shortened. At worst some may have froze and will need to be replaced. I would isolate them and check them one at a time to make sure none did freeze. A charged battery can not freeze but if it is dead it can and if it does the lead plates often crack and create a short. In a set it will ruin the others by discharging them all.

I think it is nothing short of amazing that your plumbing was not damaged more severely, you were given a gift. That tells me it did not freeze "hard" because if it did you would have leaks everywhere.

[Ray Davis]

I think I would be telling Prevost that they owe you a complete set of new batteries, both house and chassis.

[truk4u]

Jamie experienced the same thing, but it was warm weather.

Blacklab - I'm really sorry you had this nightmare, it shouldn't have happened, but anyone leaving their bus for more than a day or two must understand the only one really responsible is the owner. I would have bet money that in a short period of time your bus would be dead as a door nail, because nobody really gives a rat's ass. I have been to Nashville many times, but the only one really looking out for me is myself and it's probably that way at most other places.

At least get them to step up and take care of the batteries. Sure glad you didn't have water squirting everywhere like Joe said, it's been really cold.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[garyde]

You gotta watch em like a HAWK.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Blacklab,

It has been posted here often that owners who just leave their coach with a service company can expect problems.

You have just become the latest victim.

If the company does not vacuum all the money and lint from your wallet, it is a given they will not care as much about your coach as you do, and problems can be expected. And it appears to be getting worse.

The only solution is for the owner to remain with the coach, watch the work being performed and take possession of the coach as soon as the work is done. Apart from the frozen valves you may have other leaks, if they haven't been ruined the batteries (house and chassis) have suffered great harm and you are unlikely to get any compensation for the Prevost oversight (and yours).

[Danss]

I was in Nashville 5 days last week and at Prevost one night. I brought my own part and they put it on for me. Believe me it was cold! it was 3 above one night, but the webasto and aquahots kept us nice and cozy.

[merle&louise]

I respectfully disagree with those who say that the owner is responsible for the coach while it is in the care of the repair facility. When a company is going to take possession of a bus in for repairs they have an obligation to return the bus in the same condition that it was left in.

I don't get angry often, but if this happened to me, I would raise some cane!

I think a full page ad in FMCA magazine might get Prevost's attention, along with posting on as many websites as possible (those are free).

IMO, that is a hell of a way to treat a customer!

[Joe Cannarozzi]

I'm with you Tuga.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Tuga,

I disagree strongly.

You can assume they have a degree of responsibility. If they fail you have no coach and you and they are fighting, and possibly in court.

You may win the battle, but at what cost? We already know from previous posts it is a crap shoot if you just leave your coach off for service and expect to come back whenever it is convenient. Prevost Nashville at any given time has tens of coaches parked outdoors. Do you really believe that someone is responsible enough to check on each one periodically? Would you leave your coach for two weeks, a month or three months and never set foot in it? Do you believe a chassis technician know how to set each converter's switches to insure heat is in the coach and the batteries are being charged? We have owers on this forum that can't do that and they own their coach.

Yes they may ultimately be found responsible for not providing the level of care you expect, but the minute they lose the first lawsuit I can assure you that you will end up signing a work order that says their responsibility ends the minute the work is complete and that providing electric power is not their responsibility.

[rfoster]

I would send an email to the National Service Manager of Prevost informing him of the situation and the subsequent damages. If I leave my vehicle in the care and "feeding" of their livery stable, I would expect my horse to be in good condition when I return.

It is comparable to when you sign the work order that you will pay, there needs to be a statement to the effect that they will take "good care" of my vehicle while in their possesion.

I once had an occasion to complain about my Prevost, I sent an email on Sat Nite to the National Service Manager, come Monday morning I had an email repsonse from Bill Jensen. (A very nice man and accomodating as could be). I would at least give it a try.

Squeaky wheels are usually the ones that get the grease. Just look what goes on in Washington DC while the silent majority gets crap crammed down our throats.

[Yankee802]

Yeah, squeaky wheel ALWAYS get the grease!

[Jon Wehrenberg]

You guys are missing the point. If your coach gets screwed up while in someone's care, even if they fix what was damaged you still suffer without your coach while the same people that weren't capable of knowing it was being damaged, get the chance to fix it.

It's kind of like the government getting us into this financial mess and then being the same ones to get us out of it.

What's wrong with that picture?

[merle&louise]

Jon,

I see your point with a Prevost tech not knowing the different converters layouts, and it is a valid point. However, that is not the level of service that I am accustomed to.

I left my coach with Newell for 30 days to have some body work done (my son-in-law reared-ended a pick up truck in traffic). When I returned it was parked outside in one of the 50 amp sites, plugged in, washed, and cleaned & vacuumed inside. It had been sitting in that site for 7 days until I could get there to pick it up.

I think Prevost could have at least plugged the bus in to a 50amp receptacle. Edited: It was plugged in, sorry I read it wrong.
Additionally, how about a phone call to the owner asking how to turn the heaters on? It seems like a small effort on Prevost's part to prevent the possibility of cracked plumbing and ruined batteries which could result in many dollars of repairs.

The long and short of this deal is: Is the customer happy with Prevost's service?

[Joe Cannarozzi]

The fact that they plugged in Blacklab tells me they were aware of potential trouble if they did not and if they do not want to be responsible for anything after repairs are finished they should put that in writing right now.

I would never do this but those of you who do would be served well if these things were discussed and put in writing beforehand.

Either that or find someplace or someone who will:o

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Tuga,

There is a huge difference between having the converter care for the coach compared to Prevost.

Prevost is the chassis expert. Consider the number of converters (both motorhome and entertainer) and how each may have a different way of setting up the electrical and heating systems. I couldn't begin to know how to keep your batteries charged or your freeze protection heating operating in your coach, or a Country Coach, a Marathon or even a different vintage Liberty with the Crestron.

Then consider the Prevost situation. They run around the clock, and have possibly 20 or 30 coaches in the lot at all times. If the day shift doesn't finish the repairs, the next shift takes over. So who has responsibility to insure the coach is plugged in, heated and the batteries being charged? The tech that starts the job, the tech that finishes the job, or the guy that parks it and plugs it in? Who is responsible to go through the coach every few days to check on it. I would not have a clue how to tell battery or house voltages on your coach. The difference is that Newell built your coach. They know it from the ground up. They are a small operation relative to Prevost.

But forget that. I worry about my coach and no matter how much I trust a mechanic, if he screws up I am the one that gets it in the shorts. When Blacklab has to replace a couple thousand dollars worth of batteries in three months how will he prove it is Prevost's fault? If he has mold spreading throughout his coach because a hairline crack in a water line shows up in a year how will he prove Prevost did it? How exactly will he win, even if he has to take it to court to prevail.

Remember, Prevost is now the outfit that ships the wrong air bags to Joe and basically tells him it isn't the equivalent of what was supplied with the coach, but tough shit because that is what the book calls for. We are discussing this on several different levels, but when you put it in the context of Blacklab's situation the outcome was predictable no matter who is deemed to have the ultimate responsibility.

[Alek&Lucia]

They did have it plugged into shore power but failed to switch on the main breaker! (In the same bay as the glendinning in/out switch and not hidden).

Blacklab,

Sorry for your problems, but I have to be on the Prevost side. Like you said your coach was plugged in to 50A outside post.
What Prevost tech did not do, he did not turn on, because he had no idea that we Royale owners have, is a secondary/safety breaker that is inside of the compartment/bay. I think it was your duty to turn the inside breaker on or inform Prevost about his existence.
Next you said that your chassis batteries where dead. There is no defference if your coach is plugged in or not. They are only charged when the engine is running. I think you have weak batteries, check how old they are.
Another thing, like Jon said we should always stay with our buses during the service. That is what I do. In case of power interruption: Summer (risk of food in the refrigerator going bad) or Winter (frozen pipes).
Also Entertainers pay for their hookups, for us it is only complimentary service, and we should be thankful for that.

Alek

[Jerry Winchester]

I don't think your suction is in the right pit. Last time I was at Prevost, I pulled up and the man was standing right by the coach with the keys. It had been washed and the carpet steam cleaned. And that was 5:45pm on a Friday before a holiday.

They exceeded my expectations.

[truk4u]

You gotta spend a night, day or two at Nashville! The place is like Grand Central Station for buses. Entertainers, Private Buses and other's renting parking space. The Techs do their shifts and go home. For the most part, they don't have a clue who or what's on the yard and the buses come and go 24/7.

I haven't had a bad experience there, but you couldn't pry me away from my bus with a crow bar. I don't think it's realistic to expect any repair facility to check your bus for Power, Heat, A/C, Water, Battery Charging and TLC!:rolleyes:

Step up boy's, it's your responsibility!;)

[Jamie Bradford]

This happen to me .............. In October though ... only my fridge food got ruined !!!:mad:

I left the bus in Nashville for 3 days & upon my return they had forgotten to plug the bus up. Actually , the wash people screwed up ( so the story goes ), but anyway I realized that I should not expect these people to look after my belongings AS I WOULD!!!

George was very sorry that this happened, but at the end of the day I was out and they were sorry.

I do not feel we can blame others for not looking after our " babies" the way we do.... these guys are trained to repair seals & fix leaks & replace parts...
After that their responsibility ceases.....

Such is the way of the world.........................:cool:

[garyde]

The Prevost people are OK at what they do but don't expect a mechanic or Service Manager to step 5 feet outside of their world. Its not in the cards.

[rbeecher]

Blacklab,

I have been through what you just went through with the exception of the issues caused by cold weather. Coach plugged in at a Prevost facility but no breaker switch flipped on in an 02 XLII that had batteries less than 3 months old. Spoiled the food in the fridge too.

Over six months later the bus is at the convertor for a generator no start issue that went on for over six months before the problem was solved. This means that I had no shore (and no auto gen to come on) when the voltage dropped in the house batteries while the bus was at that Prevost facility for a week plus.

While the convertor has the bus back to work on the gen issue again, (remember, this is many months later) I get a call saying my house batteries are only good for about 20 minutes with no significant load, i.e. A/C. I reply that I have been expecting this day to come for for sometime now. While the bus was at Prevost, my new batteries were largely killed off and my auto gen is trying to start the gen over and over and over again which is taxing the fuel pump, starter, etc. Indeed, the fuel pump failed while the bus was at the convertor for the gen service. I say to the service manager that he needs to speak to Prevost because the convertor took my bus to Prevost (many months before) and they both were responsible for the batteries. After two or maybe three emails, Prevost sent me a massage to let me know they were taking complete care of replacing the batteries. This after I was initially informed by the convertor that I would be paying a prorated portion of the cost. I politely reasoned out the history of how the batteries came to their demise and all was taken care of. I could have reqeusted the fuel pump be taken care of also by Prevost and in fact the convertor suggested I ask Prevost to cover it but I decided to pay for it.

I keep very detailed notes and all emails associated with all service on the bus whether I can stay with the bus or not and those notes have paid off because I can read them back play by play down to the exact time of day, who I talked to about what, what the reply or replies were, etc.

If you can't stay with the bus, leave written instructions and make sure they are put on your service order and take a copy with you so you have some documentation when you go back to pick up the bus.

In this case, you left the bus in their care and they should take care of you.

Good luck,

Richard

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Well I would like to add my .07 cents worth to this Thread, about Prevost and one of the convertors I had to deal with at my last service.

My bus was at Prevost Ft. Worth for almost 7 weeks. What I had originally taken it in for, was to replace the roof in the slide with thicker ss. With this repair it was noted that I should also have stronger roof supports installed, I agreed and that was taken care of. Then when Prevost began putting the salon slide back in, they noticed I needed the newer slide out pins and mechanisms, and asked if it would be alright to replace them, since the slide was already out? I said sure go ahead and make it all correct and up to spec.

The three invoices that were sent to me for my records, totaled over $30,000: The COST OUT OF MY POCKET $ 0 All of the Slide Roof work was covered under Prevost Warranty, at NO COST to me. I am very happy about this outcome........

BUT several things on the inside of the bus during all of this work did get messed up, but not by Prevost, but by Buddy Gregg. Buddy Gregg was contracted to remove all furniture and fixtures in the slide. When we picked up the bus the day before Christimas, we noticed these mistakes, and notified Prevost and Buddy Gregg, and Buddy Gregg is stepping up and taking care of these issues as we speak.

I am a Novice at all this bus stuff, and NO I can not stay with my bus each and every time something is worked on, I would like too, BUT I just can't.

BUT let me tell you, I have been very happy with Prevost Ft. Worth, and so far the work and effort put forth by Buddy Gregg in Lewisville, TX. too!

I will let you know if one of them does me wrong, WHEN and If the time comes.

I feel bad for the people that have things happen beyond their control to their beautiful buss, but somethings just are OUT OF EVERYONES CONTROL. !

Gary S.

[Tully]

I had a 1995 America Dream RV about a 1 1/2 ago. I took it to Camping World to have the roof looked at. Had a no start furnace. They put in a new circut and it worked again. After almost two weeks (with me calling each day) they finally said to come pick it up.

Same thing, no plug in issue. Coach sitting out in the parking lot. Would not start. Told them I brought the RV into them running- would expect I could take the RV home running? Was I asking too much here?

Then I go inside. Dirt and mud in the carpets. Grease marks dirty steering wheel.

I left thinking to myself two things:

1) Never just leave a vehicle without strict instructions. I myself cannot
stay with the coach.

2) Never to go back. Once was enough.

I have had Joe C. do a lot of work for me. I noticed every time he entered my "camper" as he calls it- ALWAYS took his shoes off. Every single time.
Just seeing that told me what kind of person I was dealing with.

When I came to pickup my bus, Joe had it running- nice and warm. Even said he would vacume the inside for me.

Im telling you, I wish I were Joe C. He knows what he is doing. If there is something he is not certain of- he tells you. That I like. He should be the
main go to guy for all our repairs. I think we could keep him busy full-time.

My 2 cents.

Tully Lee Garrett

[blacklab]

Good Morning, my bus is inside my heated warehouse. The water pump is on and have used all water fixtures and see no leaks. The Microflush air/water sequence valve and vacuum breaker need replacing. Thats all I can tell as of now. I will replace all the batteries. My insurance company (Progressive) will cover these expenses and will go after Prevost for compensation. I've keep them involved because the bus was at Nashville for repair work covered by my insurance. My agent tells me that they wrote over $500K worth of insurance repair checks just last year. So I'm sure they can get the money from Prevost better that I could. This thread has generated alot of comments, pro & con. When I brought the bus in for repair after my tag tire blew and messed up the wheel well, mud flaps and brackets, I was told that they could fix it in a few days. I did stay in the coach for two days waiting. George then told me that the parts would not arrive for about 10 days, so I rented a car and drove back to Mpls. Prior to leaving the bus I did walk both George and Mike (service managers) along with Fast Eddie (my inherited mechanic) through the coach systems and showed them what was on in the bays (heaters), the procedure of operating the glennding shore power cord and the main breaker needed to be on,and that the coach needed to be plugged in all the time. I did this with the assurance that the coach would be worked on during the day, because that shift employed the qualified person to do the repair work on the wheel well. I didn't think they couldn't handle plugging it in and flipping the main breaker. It is in the same bay btw. They got half of it right. Anyway, I'm confident that I will be compensated for the costs of batteries and toilet parts. I'll do the install myself. In the next time category, I will do things differently....................Live & Learn.

[phorner]

I had a 1995 America Dream RV about a 1 1/2 ago. I took it to Camping World to have the roof looked at. Had a no start furnace. They put in a new circut and it worked again. After almost two weeks (with me calling each day) they finally said to come pick it up.

Same thing, no plug in issue. Coach sitting out in the parking lot. Would not start. Told them I brought the RV into them running- would expect I could take the RV home running? Was I asking too much here?

Then I go inside. Dirt and mud in the carpets. Grease marks dirty steering wheel.

I left thinking to myself two things:

1) Never just leave a vehicle without strict instructions. I myself cannot
stay with the coach.

2) Never to go back. Once was enough.

I have had Joe C. do a lot of work for me. I noticed every time he entered my "camper" as he calls it- ALWAYS took his shoes off. Every single time.
Just seeing that told me what kind of person I was dealing with.

When I came to pickup my bus, Joe had it running- nice and warm. Even said he would vacume the inside for me.

Im telling you, I wish I were Joe C. He knows what he is doing. If there is something he is not certain of- he tells you. That I like. He should be the
main go to guy for all our repairs. I think we could keep him busy full-time.

My 2 cents.

Tully Lee Garrett

Tully,

I couldn't agree with you more....:)

[dalej]

I think a few of us are starting to see.... JOE'S BUS & TRUCK in the Lakeland area. :)

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Thanks guys it is appreciated.

Dale don't like the idea of property taxes and overhead. I think I will stay mobile.

I would consider planting at a campground in Florida for a few months every winter.

[dalej]

With being mobile and caller ID you won't have to worry about complaints! :)

[jello_jeep]

Joe does take his shoes off, but the marinara stains are a real pain to get out! :D



I have had Joe C. do a lot of work for me. I noticed every time he entered my "camper" as he calls it- ALWAYS took his shoes off. Every single time.
Just seeing that told me what kind of person I was dealing with.

Tully Lee Garrett

[jello_jeep]

BL, in my opinion it is of course better if you can stay with your coach..

Obviously those of us still in the workforce can't take days or weeks off to babysit a coach.

The fact you can't stay with it does not negate PV's responsibility for the basics, plugging it in and turning on the breaker is not too much to ask.

Hold their feet to the fire and they will pony up, it is NOT YOUR FAULT!