Another newbie question

[Yankee802]

Ok, first my question, is it ok for the bus to sit (month at a stretch) on the ground, or is it bad?

The reason I ask is my bus will slowly sit (pretty evenly) over a week or so, a little quicker in the front. I don't know if I have a leak, or if the aux air doesn't have enough umph to keep it up. If it's not detromental to my bus' health, it doesn't bother me, easier for the wife to step up into if it's lower. However if you guys recomend, I'd run the engine once a week to bring the level back up to full height. If it doesn't matter either way, I'd just put her on the ground.

Any suggestions?

Geoff

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Your suspension, when the engine is turned off is unaffected by any loss or increase in your air systems. The bus can lean even if all systems are at full pressure, or your bus can sit perfectly level at whatever height you left it if all of your system pressures drop to zero.

If you bus takes a week to lean or settle it is within the Prevost criteria for acceptability. It can do better than that but to get to that point involves either replacement of a lot of parts or a very detailed trouble shooting.

If you are going to run the engine, run it up to full operating temperature, or do not run it at all. Running it for short periods creates moisture in the engine and oil.

Let the bus down if the site is level and just leave it there. It will not hurt anything.

[Yankee802]

WhoHoo, going down.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Geoff, be careful on the lowering down off the bags.

I noticed my bus has some holes in the top of the wheel wells, I think from the tires rubbing.

Don't drive in the down position.

Or at least be willing to accept the consequences.

JIM

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jim,

Roger and I coincidently have to drop our buses to the lowest position in the front to enter and exit our garages.

That may be the reason. I was unaware the wheels came in contact with the wheel wells when rolling in this position.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Jim C., I also have to lower the suspension completely to get in and out of our storage stall. I don't think my wheels rub on the upper wheel well, but will ask Peg if she hears any grinding of Rubber when I am slowly backing up into our stall? I have noticed it is wreaking havoc on my under carriage mud flaps.

I personally think it was just Roger driving way too hard and way too fast over the hills, and it kept bottoming out, :D but what do I know?

Gary S.

[Yankee802]

I had/have absolutly NO intentions of driving while "on the ground", of course i didn't think you COULD drive that way. I was told that I had to wait untill the air came up to full pressure and the bus had risen before I could move, not true? If it is, don't worry, I still have no intentions or reason to do so, but it makes sense for those that do in order to get it inside.

Ok, but if this is possible, then couldn't one do it in an emergency, like to get under an low bridge/overpass on a narrow road? Just a thought/question. :)

[garyde]

Hey Geoff. Its bad on the air bags but you can move it a couple of feet slowly if need be. Wait until you have at least 50 percent.

[Yankee802]

Well, I still have no intentions on driving unless my suspension is in the 'normal' position. But it's good to know that in certain cases it could be done, like finding yourself at a low overhang and no way to turn around, or to get it in a barn. I'm just thrilled to be able to let it sit on the ground at the camp ground without adverse effects. :)

Ok, now I'm currious. How much HIGHER can she go above 'normal'? I don't know why anyone would want to, but now I'm currious.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

About 4" up or down from ride position.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Raise up to get over the speed bumps in the Nashville airport.

Raise it up to put the support stands under the bus.

Raise it up to scrub your wheel wells with a brush.

Raise it up to exercise the bags. (get out all the wrinkles)

Raise it up to see if it will.

[BrianE]

Geoff,

All that being said, Jon's custom jackstands (or blocks) allow you to deflate the airbags and not have them squished and folded. While it's obvious many buses sit for long periods with deflated suspension, it's hard to believe it doesn't shorten the life of the rubber. Just a thought.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Since we have been homebound since the Oysterfest I have had the bus sitting on the stands, the air dumped and the tires off the ground so I can turn the wheels to make wheel polishing easier.

I just released the emergency brakes and left it that way for about a month so I could go out and polish a little at a time.

I like raising the bus all the way up and then getting the tires off the ground because that is how to make my tires last longer than Peter's.

[JIM KELLER]

Jon, How do you shut off the Emergency Brake audible warning. Is there a relay to pull out like the one you showed me to turn off the brake lights when I use my Jake Brake ?

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Jon we just drove up from Florida with 10 year old drive tires (with probably better than 90% tread left).

Something tells me all the preventative measures in the world will not keep those tires on your bus for that long.

These tires are so cracked I never thought we were going to make it home without issue but we did.

Made sure they all had 100psi and kept the speed to under 65.

I have talked with my tire guy and he is nabbing the next good matched set of 4 used 11-22.5's for the drive axle. After reading a post on another forum suggesting this I decided it would be a great way to go for us. What we will probably end up with is tires that are around 1 year old with 30 or 40% tread for about 100 bucks a piece.

That's Prevo for a lot less:o

[dalej]

Jim, just keep the key off.

[Yankee802]

Jon, do you sell the jackstands/blocks Brian mentioned? If so, how many does one need and how much?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jim,

I do not have an alarm for my emergency brake. Just the warning light. And that doesn't light unless the key is on. I just released the emergency brake and for the next month or so left it released. No lights, no alarm. Key off.

Geoff,

About 28 POG members bought stands that were distributed at the Sevierville and Pahrump rallies. Single run, one shot deal.

As an alternative you might consider a set of heavy bottle jacks that have a screw post in the center that supports the coach without using the hydraulic lift feature. Several of us got some 20 ton air over hydraulic jacks from Harbor Freight or Northern. With the bus raised up, these jacks with the center screw extended, but with the jack in the fully down position come to about an inch below the body support points. We raise the bus, put the jacks under it and lower it down. It is supported with no chance of a hydraulic failure making it drop suddenly. They were about $60 each, more expensive than the stands, but they are more versatile also because thye can be used for lifting.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=95553

[JIM KELLER]

Jim, just keep the key off.

Dale, Alarm comes on when I turn the key to the "off " position if the brakes are not set.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jim,

Is that a Prevost feature or is it a CC feature?

I think it is a good idea as long as it can be temporarily disabled such as when servicing the coach.

[phorner]

Same here.... my alarm will sound with the parking brake released and the ignition key off.

Didn't think it was intended to be disabled ?

[BrianE]

It's a Prevost feature Jon. Our Royale beeps with the key off also. Will check today if it can easily be deactivated.

[JIM KELLER]

Jon, Perhaps your " beeper " is beeped out !

[dalej]

Well how do you guys release the parking brake and drive? there shouldn't be a beeper sounding while driving down the road anyway.

We just have the bus on it's stands with the air out of the bags, park brake released, just like driving.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

The circuit probably opens if the ignition is on. Mine is a 96 shell, so I presume the addition of the warning was post 96, and is a Prevost feature.

[JIM KELLER]

The Transmission is the over riding factor. In Drive or Reverse the warning beeper is off. If you put the Bus in Neutral and turn off the key without the parking brake engaged the warning device goes crazy. It knows you are about to leave the Bus in neutral, unattended with the key off. A nice safety precaution. Now, how I can get it up on Stands without the brake applied so I can rotate the wheels like Jon is the unknown.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Just cut the + wire close to the annunciator and connect a switch between the two ends.

You would label the switch as for service only.

JIM

[Jon Wehrenberg]

If you don't want to add a switch, or locate the CB to trip, turn off the bus battery switches in the rear.

There are numerous times when it is necessary to turn off the key and release the parking brake so I surmise there is a quick way to extinguish the warning sound.

[JIM KELLER]

Jon, Good Idea. I was at Prevost in Jacksonville and several Buses were up in the air with tires off, brake jobs, etc and none of them had the alarm going off. Probably because they turn off the battery switch. Thanks.

[Yankee802]

So how many jacks does one need for a bus?

[Kevin Erion]

At Prevost Mira Loma they turn the CB off!
Very easy, just remember to reset before driving!

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Depends on what you want to do.

If all you want to do is pull a wheel, one.

If you want to work under one end only, two.

If you want the entire bus supported, four.

It gets complicated after that because if you want to be under the bus, and raise an axle, such as to change air bags, or work on brakes then you need to support the bus, plus lift the axle.

I would strongly urge you to never get under your bus unless and until you have it properly supported, and you really know what you are doing. There is no chance I could consider getting under a bus even if it was supported unless I knew the concrete beneath it can handle the weight concentrated beneath the supports and that the ground was absolutely level so it did not shift and fall.

[truk4u]

Simple solution on the later shells, with the bus properly supported as Jon correctly keeps driving home, leave the key on, release the brakes and do your work. If your short on air, put shop air to the rear fill valve and rock on. Leaving the key on won't hurt anything for a reasonable period of time. Now before you start throwing darts at me, this is assuming your not working on the drive axle brakes, cause if you run out of air, the spring brakes are coming on! I have quick connects on the aux air and rear fill so I can just hook my shop air direct.

[BrianE]

Are we beating this to death or what? :eek: We agree the beeper only functions with the key off, right? Turning off the chassis batteries will turn it off OR pulling #68 relay in the front junction box will also.

[JIM KELLER]

Thanks Brian, That's the knowledge we were looking for. Sort of like the Relay in the back of the Bus that stops the brake lights from coming on when using the Jake Brake.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Every time I hear of a "feature" on shells newer than my vintage model, the more convinced I am that I don't want to "upgrade".

It's almost like someone in Prevost engineering is dreaming up ways to make the shells less reliable, more complex, definitely more expensive to build AND REPAIR, less user friendly, and more annoying.

Must be some driver somewhere left the brake off and the coach rolled, so now Prevost and all owners have a fix in place designed to keep idiots awake and add another step to the servicing process. At the rate society is going I expect I will need a chain guard for my chain saw to keep it from cutting anyone or anything while it is running.

[truk4u]

Hmm, I just remembered my CC sat on the Prevost lift with the brake released and key off while they changed out the LR wheel seal and there was no alarm and it was a 99 chassis.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Someone tripped the breaker and never reset it, or the mechanic turned off the chassis battery switches while you were out tending to the sheep.

[JIM KELLER]

You know Tom, It's starting to look like the Sheep Stigma will be with you till Death ! Who started that in the first place ? Are you still friends ?

[Jamie Bradford]

Tom

When I had the other seal done last month the bus was on the lift with the brake off and the" beep " drove me nuts until I cranked up the music.

Jamie

[truk4u]

Jon - Anythings possible and you know I never lost site of the bus.

Jim - It was the Turd Boys

Jamie - Why were you in the bus and not watching them like a hawk?

[grantracy]

Thanks Brian, That's the knowledge we were looking for. Sort of like the Relay in the back of the Bus that stops the brake lights from coming on when using the Jake Brake.

Where is that relay located?

[BrianE]

Granvil, On our 98 XLV it's in the Front Junction Box on the left front corner of the bus. Check Jon's comment below, the relay may vary as to location and number on this panel. Thanks Jon.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I assume Brian is correct regarding the relay number. It is a different relay on my vintage coach so check the relay listing on the engine door. It will tell you.

BTW, Brian's coach has a Jake and not a retarder, so that may explain why his and my relay numbers are different.

[Yankee802]

The brake lights come on when the jake is on?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Not necessarily. They did not on my 87, but did on my 97 until I removed the relay.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Hey Geoff, I think your located somewhere close to Norfolk, VA.
Wondering if you ever got off in the sand. Even though I was warned about not going off the pavement I managed to pull off to look at a map, and immediately realized that it was too late. I couldn't move the car until passers by stopped and pushed me out.

JIM

[Sid Tuls]

Jon,

Jon by pulling this fuse your saying that when you are using your retarder the brake lites won't come on. Is there any safety issue here? Like going down steep grades and the big trucks not seeing you?? Also could it become an insurance issue ? Thanks

[MangoMike]

Sid,

THere is nothing more annoying than following someone with a jake/retarder activated brake lights. YOu're never sure if they are really trying to stop.

As Jon says pulling the relay is the answer, and yes the brake lights will still work when the peddle is pushed.

Mike

[Jon Wehrenberg]

The problem with retarder or jake actuated brake lights is two things in my opinion. First, the annoyance factor. It just irritates folks who are behind you, especially when on a fairly level highway and the cruise control or you the driver "lifts" off the gas. That engages my retarder if it is on, and also the brake lights. That mistakenly signals the guy behind you are slowing down, but in fact you just might have a slight downgrade and are just trying to maintain speed.

But the second concern I had was after a while the folks behind you might start ignoring those lights and then if you really have to stop they are caught by surprise.

I don't know if it is a DOT requirement, a Canadian requirement or something Prevost just decided to do. I also do not know what an insurance company position on this would be.

[JIM KELLER]

I removed mine for several reasons. One was because I didn't want my Brake lights to come on after passing an Eighteen Wheeler. Sometimes you accelerate to pass and hit the Jake to slow back down. When they see Brake Lights it just pisses them off because they think you are giving them a " Brake Job."

[Yankee802]

'Brake Job'?

[JIM KELLER]

Yank, Don't know about you but when someone passes me on the Interstate and as soon as they get in front of me they hit the brakes I become slightly irritated. Also called a " Brake Job " down here in the South.

[Yankee802]

Oh, I can see how it would piss someone off, just didn't know if the term had more meaning or something. I need to find out if my Jake activates the lights.

[Judi Brown]

Hi
We have never figured out how to put a new post on, so I watch for something close, this not close , but can't wait any longer as husband is
on my case. He says that we only need air for toilet when parked and wants to put a little compressor for just that, so aux. compressor is not cutting in.
(every 15 min. ) He thinks that is easier than trying to find leaks.Maybe some 1 can help me with both problems.
Thanks JudiB.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Hi
We have never figured out how to put a new post on, so I watch for something close, this not close , but can't wait any longer as husband is
on my case. He says that we only need air for toilet when parked and wants to put a little compressor for just that, so aux. compressor is not cutting in.
(every 15 min. ) He thinks that is easier than trying to find leaks.Maybe some 1 can help me with both problems.
Thanks JudiB.


Judi, one thing at a time.

Go to the POG main page, and find a category that suites your topic.
Click on it to select it.
Look about 1/4 down that new page and on the left on top of all the Threads in that category, you will see "NEW THREAD" Click on it and on the new page that appears enter a title "Name" for your thread.

Hit the tab bar or with the mouse bring the cursor to the body of the post and type away.

The question about your husband, well, I don't know. Your on your own with that. ;):D

Seriously, try to find your air leaks, but if it is a matter of emergency air for the toilet, then by all means pipe in a small compressor for it.

Keep it right in the bath area so it's a pain to deal with, or you will never get rid of it.

JIM

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Judi,

Yes you can add another compressor to the two you already have, but your problem still exists.

Think about it for a moment. If you add a small compressor dedicated to the toilet, where and how do your hook it to the air lines? If you disconnect the air lines from the rest of the system (where the leaks are) then you are at the mercy of a small compressor. If that compressor quits, what is your back up? Right now you have the aux compressor and the engine driven one. If you leave the current air line connected, and you "tee" into the line with the new compressor, it will run as much as the aux compressor does now.

It would be a lot easier just adding a compresed air tank and a check valve. At least you would get X number of flushes before you had to run the engine or turn on the aux compressor.

For the amount of screwing around adding a compressor it seems the same amount of time can be spent finding the leaks and curing them.

Wouldn't you rather have the coach right than all cobbled up?

[garyde]

My compressor runs a couple of times a day depending on how much i use the air doors and the toilet. If your aux compressor is running more than what you consider normal, I would start looking for the leak.

[Judi Brown]

Thanks Jon
That makes more sense. He knows there is a leak in seat and that is where he is going to start. JUDIB

[Judi Brown]

Hi Jim
I forgot to thank you also and maybe i can post the right way from now on
Thanks Judib

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Post more Judi, that's the right way.

JIM

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Judi, another solution for your not knowing which way to go, is to change out the toilet to a Royal Flush Superbowl. No Air Required!!!!!
954-581-6996

Then your only concern is the pocket door. I know a guy you can ask about that.

If you present your solution properly you will get a new matching sink and a redecorated bath area ;) :)


Seriously, be sure to repair your air leaks. Don't get into the downward spiral of deferred maintenance. It leads to a pit of no return.

:D JIM

[phorner]

"It leads to a pit of no return."

Wow..... truer words were never spoken, er typed....

[Yankee802]

Ok, time to take my thread back from the thread-jacker. :)

On a related note from the TJ, my toilet doesn't work again, but this time it's the air. I checked the aux air tank, 30psi, the compressor isn't coming on, and I checked the fuse, it's ok. So I don't know what the deal is, I'm assuming something is frozen, any help here would be appreciated.

[jello_jeep]

Not sure what kind of compressor you have, but if it takes oil, make sure it has some, if you can turn the pump by hand, try and see if you can, check voltage at the compressor, and if possible find the pressure switch, use a jumper and bypass it.. That too could be it.



Ok, time to take my thread back from the thread-jacker. :)

On a related note from the TJ, my toilet doesn't work again, but this time it's the air. I checked the aux air tank, 30psi, the compressor isn't coming on, and I checked the fuse, it's ok. So I don't know what the deal is, I'm assuming something is frozen, any help here would be appreciated.