Floor renovations

[Darrell and Linda]

Planning on upgrading the flooring in the coach this spring. A couple of questions for the members that have had experience in renovations on their floors.

1) Thinking of putting granite title on the floor...... porcelene tile is very nice but I don't believe it would be a good option. The new flooring would be installed on the stairs, drivers area, front salon, kitchen and bath area. We will leave the carpet in the bedroom.
What does everyone / converters use for grouting and underlay to prevent movement and cracking. I've been searching on the net and came up with PREVA-FLEX that might work as a good underlay. Has anyone worked with this stuff??

2) In the driver's compartment, we want to tile also. Question; How much higher can I raise the throttle and brake pedal? I haven't had a chance to disassemble or crawl underneath to investigate yet. I thought maybe it is easier to ask the members.

Can't wait till spring....

Thanks

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Alek and I moved both the brake and throttle to run pergo under them on an H-3. The throttle is run off a wire so there is plenty of play. The brake pedal was also not a problem but it is a mechanical connection there. From what I remember we could have raised it a bit further than we needed for the pergo.

If you want to be sure unbolt the brake and mock it up with a piece of tile you want to use to make sure.

We would like to install tile on the stairs and up front on our XL so post up what you learn. I think the stairs are fiberglass or some sort of plastic.

[Darrell McCarley]

JOE.........You are right on. The steps are fiberglass. I removed the tile on my entry step but it was not easy. I replaced with granite rather than marble because granite is hard and durable for heavy traffic in the entry way. I had a flooring store install the granite.

[Darrell McCarley]

JOE.....I would like to move the brake petal forward to have more leg room. I moved the throtle forward without a problem but can you tell me what has to be done to move the brake petal forward. I have moved the seat back as far as possible but still need more leg room.

[garyde]

There are many light weight granite and marble companies around now who make a composite or sandwich tile which weighs 1/6th the weight of regular granite or marble. It goes down very easy and will not crack or break after setting. Just another consideration.

Visit: www.stoneply.com or http://www.artisanmarbleandtile.com/services.html

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Good link Gary

We are not going to get all exotic. Some reasonably priced tumbled stone tile from any home improvement store will do well for us.

I was curious about the choice of glue.

The best thing I have seen so far for the drivers floor is in Truks Liberty.

Brian did you put that down and if so where did you get it?

[BrianE]

Joe, I didn't do the tile job but the guy who did used plain old thinset. He was very careful to have a flat surface to glue to however and used 1/4 x 2" marine ply placed 1/4" apart. The wire for the radiant heat was laid in between the strips. We had no trouble with the tile moving or cracking. Tom has made a few grout repairs which seems to be standard in motor home tile floors. Good luck.

[Darrell and Linda]

Thanks guys. Goods links.
I was going to do the work myself. My biggest concern was the constant coach movement and having the grout crack and in constant repair.

I thought there would be some play on the throttle and brake pedals. Thanks, now I know for sure. I like that even transition into the driver compartment.

The hard part of this project, like all others, will be the mrs. and I agreeing on flooring....... ssssh.

I'll let you know how the project goes. Still a couple of months away.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

I'm not going to say you can't move the brake pedal but it would be quite a chore. There is about umteen air lines going to it and all would have to be lengthened.

Forget about it.

[truk4u]

Darrell,

This is what Brian did to the Liberty and I really like the rubber driver floor. I always hated the carpet, rugs and crap that you had to put on the floor to protect it from Flying J foot fuel, dirt and mole droppings. The only carpet we have is in the bedroom and having the rest of the bus in tile is fantastic.

3948

[Darrell and Linda]

Tom , I agree. I have carpet up the stairs and in the drivers compartment. You are constantly bringing crap onto the carpet and its stained now. That is exactly why we want to install tile.... easier cleaning right?? Our slide out floor has the rubber flooring as in your picture.

I guess a person is limited to what they can put on the slide out floor due to the limited height based on the slide track. ....Any ideas??

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Darrell, in our American the convertor installed a granite floor with heating beneath all of it, but what we really liked was they used a brass insert between each of the square granite pieces instead of any grout.


Looks clean, stays clean, and I don't have to clean the floor as much ? :D

And oh by the way, I am working on having the bench seats redone too.


Gary S.

[Darrell and Linda]

Gary, That's very nice, very similar to what we want to do.
Question; is that solid granite or is the wafer / composite type. The brass inlay is the solution to the grout... it won't crack.

We have been looking at porcelain wall title...... they have amazing title now days for walls. This might be a good application for your seating / bench.

[lewpopp]

Gary, is the reason you mentioned replacing the dinette upholdstry is you were worried about some wise ass commenting on what was there?

How ostentatious can we get. Hey Chaloupka, how'd you like that one.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Lew, I was thinking the same thing now that you mention it, but didn't say anything. Now I have to.
Gary what's wrong with the upholstery and was wondering what it had to do with the floor covering?

:)JIM:)

Your an instigator Lew, now you stop churning the pot. :D

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Lew and Jim C. You guys just don't miss a thing do ya ? :p

The reason I mentioned the fabric on the bench, is cause I HATE IT !!!! The colors aren't right, its not my style, and did I mention I HATE IT ? !!!! But Jon told me not to let a little thing like color or fabric keep me from buying a bus when I found something I really liked... So we bought this one, and I am changing the damn fabric... SOON. :D

Darrell, our granite is the full size stuff. I have two extra pieces and they are probably 1/2" thick. They do make the lighter weight stuff now a days, and from what I hear it too is great stuff. Don't forget when you do your flooring to include the heated stuff underneath. It really is great.

Gary S.

[Darrell and Linda]

Gary, We have an older coach, now you have Linda interested in a heated floor .... thanks buddy.

I assume this is electrical wiring / conduit to heat the floor. Is there any links that show schematics of these in floor heat systems or a least contacts that provide a look on a system like this???

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Hey Darrell, glad I could be of help...:D Honestly, if you are going to do the granite or solid surface flooring, you really should go all the way and have them heated. It will make a difference, and IMO you and LINDA will much happier for it.

Now, I know that somewhere in the many POG past and vast Posts, there are several listings of heating the floors, but I can't seem to find them.

Check on Line, or better yet, call one of our great Sponsors about this type of job. Unless you want to do all of it yourself? Here is a start on the subject, http://www.thetiledoctor.com/installations/WarmlyYours.cfm

I wonder if Joe C. does flooring, along with air bags, suspension and so on?

Gary S.

[Darrell and Linda]

I'm sure he does, suspensions, flooring.... there is a common denominator (its all beneath your feet). It makes for good discussions and always over a few wobbly pops.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Darrell, here is a link to one of the discussions on granite floors.
http://forum.prevostownersgroup.com/showthread.php?t=902&highlight=flexible+granite

Yes Joe C does floors at least I know he did Alec and Lucias in Pergo.

In the granite discussion it came out that there is available a high tech imported granite on a light weight aluminum base. It is an attempt at lightening up the tiles while retaining the rigidity of thick heavy solid granite.

Personally I like carpet in the driver area and on the steps. If it is fastened with snaps it is easy to clean and or replace. It wipes the dirt from the feet and keeps the rest of the coach cleaner. I also think it has a warmer home like feel as opposed to the back hall look and feel of rubber and vinyl.

In the salon I like wood with a carpet snapped in place in the traffic area. Maybe an oriental or similar. That is what I will do when my carpet wears out and needs replacing.

Do whatever you want it's your bus.

Remember thick granite is very heavy, so if it matters to you do some computations about the LBs/SQ FT.

My big question for myself will be light wood or dark wood, but I know Lew will help me out with that. ;)

JIM

[Darrell and Linda]

Thanks Jim, We like the granite look. Now Linda is on with the in floor heating. I don't think the composite granite will work with the in floor heating. I believe, and I may be wrong, but it has to be solid stone to allow for conduction in the heat transfer.

[truk4u]

Darrell,

Talk to Brian, he put the heated floor in my Liberty when he did the tile job.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Darrell, don't assume anything, you may be in error and short change yourself. The heating works under wooden floors, so check out your wishes with the mfgr. of the system you like.

I had a system of in floor in my family room, tubing with hot water in concrete, and covered with padding and thick carpet. I was told it wouldn't work. I put it in anyway and it worked fine. Wish I had it here. The only thing it wouldn't do is react to temp. adjustments quickly, but that was not necessary for us.


JIM

[Darrell and Linda]

Thanks Tom, Reference to BrianE, I'll send him a pm

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Do it in a post Darrell. In fact it is already up somewhere he posted it for me a long time ago. It's good info let everyone learn.

In fact the draw was so low I was thinking about putting it in the cockpit floor and running it off the inverter cause the toes tend to get cold with the poor bus cockpit floor heat.

[lewpopp]

Darrell, if you post a picture of the flooring at any time, make sure the dinette upholdstry is what you want and not like Mr. Stevens. If we overlook it, mention it so we will be sure to take it all in.

They call Jim and myself, "Shit Stirrers"

[Darrell and Linda]

You're right Joe.

We may be turning a corner here but...

Do you know what kind of draw these floor systems consume. I know it will be based on the length of your electrical conduit. (area to heat). We will be planning to do at least two thirds on the floor area.

Just thinking on the wiring - power supply......off the top of my head.

I would supply and control through the main electrical panel in three circuits 1) front heat 2) kitchen heat & 3) bath heat. These circuit breakers are existing and labeled in the panel.. but only works off of shore power or generator. (I think this is part of the wabasto system on a 1990 liberty??...) Any ideas where to make the connections. It would have to be basement at the circuit panel.... right. Any ideas.

[garyde]

Hi Darrell. the Nu-Heat product can be ordered per your floor template. The size determines the wattage/amperage. You can order it in 240 volt or 120 volt. A typical 3'x 5' underlay is about 10 amps in 120 volt.
Radiant flooring is typically laid in thin set, let dry and then thin set again for your tile. The encasement allows for radiant heating to evenly radiate heat thru your floor mass. You can have wood flooring or carpeting over the encasement but it is important that it is encased in cement or under a 1" cement layer of concrete or tile.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Darrell, if you post a picture of the flooring at any time, make sure the dinette upholdstry is what you want and not like Mr. Stevens. If we overlook it, mention it so we will be sure to take it all in.

They call Jim and myself, "Shit Stirrers"


Well Mr. Popp, since you brought it up AGAIN, :p, Peg and I picked out our new fabric and leather this afternoon at the decorators. Now all I have to do, is wait again, till it comes in and I can have it installed.

Hope to be done by October? :eek:

Gary S.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Ooh leather, how exciting. Is it light leather or dark leather?

Gary, show us samples so we can approve it before you buy:eek:.

Lew made me say that. :)

JIM:p

[mike kerley]

Just an suggestion, but you may wish to check the current weight on your steer axle before doing the granite. We pulled the marble and carpet and ran granite through out the front 3/4 of the bus, gained 400 lbs on the steer axle. Were right at the limit now, in fact, I'm going on a diet.

the Granite is heavy and so is the thin set, which may not be real thin in some areas.

Be prepared for a real dust storm when they grind the old thin set off where you had marble.

the only cracking we've experience was on the bottom step, where the fiberglass is just to flexible for granite.

[BrianE]

Darrell,

There was a thread that covered our floor installation but it must have been lost when we changed forum managers. In any event we used the Suntouch radiant system http://www.suntouch.com/sunMatIntro.html. Initially I purchased their mats but our installer did not want to use the large amount of thinset that would be required to bury the mats and adhere the tile. He also was concerned about the weight and increased possibility of cracking. Consequently he used 1/4" plywood strips and laid Suntouch's resistance wiring between the strips. This also allowed complete coverage of the floor from the bathroom to the front steps. We also used 2 under tile heat sensors, one active and another as a spare in case of failure. Total power consumption is only 8 amps (120v) and the system warms the floor up to 90f if you want to burn your socks.

The floor project was part of a major interior refurbish which was done by Paradise Coach in Coburg, OR http://www.pciconversions.com/. Larry Oberfoell the owner, worked for Marathon for many years before starting his own business down the road. I can't say enough about his skill and inovation. His attention to detail is shown in the photo of the tile which he laid out so that the natural grain matched throughout the bus. He is very reasonable and works fast, a rare combination. FMCA Mag included Larry in a recent article about high quality conversion companies http://www.fmca.com/fmc2008/novmag/conversions.asp. Larry just completed building a set of cabinets for my tool bay. Tool Man watch out! :D

[Darrell and Linda]

Thanks Brian.

I'm amazed at the amount of knowledge and potential networking this group offers.

This suntouch radiant heat system is operated by a thermostat which now answers many of may questions. Correct me if I'm wrong, he layed down the suntouch and then screwed down the 1/4" strapping. I like this option in design for the weight reduction.

Question: what did you do on your slid out floor over the steps.

[BrianE]

Darrell, Actually it is easier if you lay down the strips first then install the wire. The slide out floor remained carpet for the wifey's stocking feet. Could have used the same rubber flooring as in the drivers compartment though.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Ooh leather, how exciting. Is it light leather or dark leather? Gary, show us samples so we can approve it before you buy Lew made me say that. JIM:p


Jim C. it is light leather, but pictures really won't do the fabric justice. :(
You'll have to wait till you can see it in person.

But hey, everyone knows I have great taste, so not to worry. :) and besides Peg was there to make the final decision.... !

Gary S.

[gmcbuffalo]

BrianE
You just got the bus and now you're replacing floors and couches?

I had NuHeat in my old 4107 bus, it was great to just lay on the floor to warm a sore back. But if I recall it drew a lot more amps then what you describe, plus you could never again screw anything to the floor without fears of hitting a wire.

GregM

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Greg it is even worse than that. He spent all that time and money on the one he sold to Tom not the one he just bought.:eek:

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Greg, I took a double take on your post, had to read it twice.:)

Another good feature of the heated floor is it kept the dogs off of the furniture. They liked the warm floor.


Also looking back at Brian's floor heat how to. It looks to me that something like the strips would look nice as a modern finish floor.
Use maple, or Birch for the wood and fill the spaces with clear, or colored epoxy or acrylic.

Use any wood for that matter, and maybe add dome LED lights?

JIM

[truk4u]

Excuse me Mole Man, but that carpeted floor slide was for Nancy's stocking feet, you just didn't know it yet!

Greg - Brian's correct on the amp draw, we have left in on all night and what a difference. One word of caution from my plastic CC days, make sure you remove any rugs while the system is on, it really gets hot under rugs.

Joe - I have dibs on Brian's Royale when he moves up to that XL2.;)

[Darrell and Linda]

That's very similair to the Preva-Flex that I have been exploring. Looks like it solves the cracking and movement issues and you can use it with the heated floors.

WooHoo... Many issues solved here.

Thanks

[Jamie Bradford]

Can anyone share any costs estimates??:eek:

Granite vs marble vs hardwood ???? :rolleyes:

Also , recs on sources & installers??

Thanks

[tdelorme]

Jamie, if I was thinking about replacing the floor in a bus, I would head stright to http://www.xtremegraphics.net/ The last time Jan and I were there, they were doing a slate floor in a coach that was a sight to behold. These guys do first class work and James is a POG member.