Fresh Water Auto Fill ??

[0533]

I have 2 locations to turn on my Fresh Water Auto Fill, Button at the dash and one in the water bay. (Marathon XL 99) When I turn on the button, nothing happens, the light lights up, there is plenty of water pressure at the street, but no action. This seemed to happen right after I dumped all the water in the bus, emptied everything, water heaters the whole works, went to refill and nothing. Any ideas on how to trouble shoot this??

[dale farley]

Bruce, I have those two switches in my 99 CC also. I assume that either of the switches activates a solenoid in the water line that opens to divert the water into the tank. I would first check the fuse/breaker, then I would try to locate the solenoid and see if power is reaching it. If power is there, then you have a bad solenoid. Maybe someone with a Marathon can tell you where their solenoid is located. Do you hear the solenoid click when you push the button? I assume you don't. I don't think that power at the switch light is a positive indicator that there is power reaching the solenoid.

[0533]

This is a good point Dale. I do normally hear a noise when I switch the auto fill on when at the water bay, will check both. Thanks

[dale farley]

If you don't hear that click, then you either have a bad solenoid or there is no power reaching it. Hopefully, you just have a bad fuse/breaker, but I don't know how yours is wired. In CC, I would first look to my elctronic control panel, and I would expect to find a blown fuse (automotive type).

[0533]

Thanks dale will report back

[Petervs]

Hi Bruce,

Marathon Auto Fill..... a nice system with a built in design defect.

I suggest you go to the street side water bay, activate the autofill switch there. You should hear a click as the solenoid valve opens. If you hear the click, but no water fills the tank, then there are two possibilities. One, the tank is already full. Two, the manual ball valve on the water fill line is closed. Also, the water faucet must be turned on. ( I only say that in case Jon ever buys a Marathon, he would need to be told that item!).

On the other hand, if you do not hear a click, then the switch that controls this function is not telling the solenoid that the tank needs water, in effect it is saying the tank is already full. Here is the design defect, these switches seem to fail after a few years. And they can not easily be replaced.

The switch is located on top of the fresh water tank, over on the street side water bay. The fresh tank is the lowest tank, you may have to remove the cover panel for access, just a few screws. The tank has 4 or 5 switches molded into the side of it, spaced vertically every couple of inches. Each has two wires coming from it.These drive the tank level lights on the dashboard. The autofill switch is controlled from an identical switch mounted on the top of the tank, just above the row of level switches. This is the one that fails.

You can test to see if this is the cause of the problem by disconnecting the wires that lead to it and jumpering them together and then not to simulate the operation of the switch. That will make and break the contacts, and open and close the autofill solenoid.

If the switch is defective, replacement is problematic. MArathon says you need to have one welded into the polypropylene tank. You would probably have to remove it first. I simply appropriated the highest level switch and wired the autofill to that one. Now my autofill shuts off with 1 inch of empty tank, but otherwise it works like before. Of course my highest level light no longer functions, but who cares. I had already installed a SeeLevel tank monitoring system because it works on the black and gray tanks too, and these same switches had long since failed on the black tank.

If this last autofill switch fails in the future, well, I guess I will have to buy a Liberty.

Hope this helps, let us know how yours turns out.

[0533]

Hello Brian,

This makes sense. I will add this to my list. I have had problems in the past, each was simple but did need to do something each time, turn on water etc.

I will print this out and take to the bus.

Thanks again. It all should be a bit more simple, just wanted to fill the water tanks

[Ray Davis]

Bruce,

Until you have the time to sort it out, you should have a standard gravity fill in the water bay on the passenger side of the coach, opposite the tank side.

At least you can get water in there.

Ray

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Peter he called you Brian just to get back at you for even suggesting I would consider a Marathon. Undoubtedly a fine coach, but not a Liberty.

BTW, now Brian should be mad at Bruce.

[0533]

Sorry Peter, Thanks a lot.

hello Ray, I do have a gravity fill have used it to add bleach and fill and drain would prefer to resolve the problem if possible.

I think this one will be easy com[pared to the other weekend issues I gained at TGO

[Petervs]

Hi Bruce,
Apology accepted. I have been called worse things than Brain. Not much worse though.....

[jello_jeep]

Another thing with the Marathon is, when auto fill is on and 12V pumps off, you get no pressure in the coach whilst the tanks are filling... For what its worth..

[0533]

Leon at Marathon responded with the following ideas.

For the auto fill there is a relay module and relay in bay 2 pass side
mounted to the ceiling in a big box you might have a fuse out or the
relay is loose in the socket or maybe the solenoid is bad itself.

I will inspect this and get back.

[Jerry Winchester]

Bruce,

Just install one of these to fix it. I think the Trukman keeps them in stock.

3920

[0533]

I already have one, but a spare might be in order, especially if it works better than what I have now. The technical specs are more my entry level skills than some stuff I have been troubleshooting lately.

[dreamchasers]

Another thing with the Marathon is, when auto fill is on and 12V pumps off, you get no pressure in the coach whilst the tanks are filling... For what its worth..


Same thing applies for the Country Coach.

Hector

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

I found this article in the FMCA Magazine Feb 2009, and thought I would post it word for word, for any of you that may need to Sanitize your Fresh Water System. Here it is:

"Fresh water chlorination

Dear RV Doctor:
The water in our RV had a bad odor — a musty smell — so we added some household bleach to the tank and let it sit awhile. Now we cannot get the bleach taste out. What do you suggest we do?

Stacey Johnson, Sacramento, California

Stacey, not only can foul- or stale-tasting water ruin an RV vacation, but it may even be harmful. However, the pungent flavor of household bleach might even be worse — like drinking water from a swimming pool! There is usually sufficient chlorine in most city water supply systems for safe storage in an RV, but if foul-tasting water persists, it may be necessary to treat the fresh water system from scratch. Of course, the fresh water tank stores only the quality of water put in there, so be sure to taste it prior to filling up. Here’s the approved method of chlorinating the entire fresh water system:

1. Drain and flush the fresh-water tank; leave empty. Be sure the water heater is not in the bypass mode.

2. Mix 1/4-cup of liquid household bleach (sodium hypochlorite) solution with one gallon of fresh water.

3. Pour directly into the fresh-water tank.

4. Pour in one gallon of the chlorine/water solution for every 15 gallons of fresh-water tank capacity.

5. Top off the tank with fresh water.

6. Remove or bypass any water purification equipment and/or filtering cartridges.

7. Turn on the water pump and open every faucet in the RV, including exterior faucets and showerheads.

8. Allow the solution to pump through the system to the toilet, through the water heater, and to every hot and cold faucet at each sink until a mild odor of chlorine is present at every fixture.

9. At the city water inlet, using the eraser end of a pencil, push in on the check valve spring, allowing the solution to pump out through the city water inlet until the chlorine odor is detected in the discharge.

10. Close all the faucets and turn off the water pump.

11. Allow the system to stand for four hours. This will chlorinate and disinfect the system, including the fresh-water tank, the water heater, the faucets, the complete piping system, and all fittings to a residual level of 50 ppm (parts per million).

12. At four hours, drain and flush the system with fresh water once again.

If 100 ppm residual concentration is required or desired, use 1/2-cup of bleach instead of 1/4-cup with each gallon of the solution and let stand for at least one to two hours. To avoid damage to delicate plumbing components found in some water pumps, do not allow the chlorinated solution to sit longer than four hours in the fresh-water system. This is the approved method to be sure bacteria are effectively eliminated. This process should be performed after any period of nonuse or storage, or whenever stale or distasteful water is experienced.

Since you’ve already put household bleach in the system, you may have used too much. Just keep flushing it out. Fill the tank, pump it through, drain, and refill. If the heavy bleach concentration has permeated the plastic piping severely, you may have to keep pumping fresh water throughout the entire system to be sure all the bleach is eliminated. The odor of the bleach eventually will subside. There are aftermarket products that can be added to the fresh-water tank, but those that I’ve tested consist primarily of chlorine elements, and I don’t think you need any more of that. I’ve also heard of adding distilled vinegar to the water system. Add about 1 quart for every 5 gallons of water capacity and pump it through the system as you do with chlorine. Let it stand in the system overnight and, as with chlorine, fully flush the system until you are satisfied with the taste and smell. I’ve not tested this method personally, but if the bleach taste remains, it just may be a viable alternative."

Hope this may help someone?

Gary S.

[GSwaim]

Has anyone got a good working knowledge of how Royale did their autofill system? Mine doesn't seem to function according to the manual and simply pours water on the ground when I fill the water tank. I was wondering if someone knew how they detect the water level in the Tank to shut the incoming city water off during filling?

[GSwaim]

I cn hear the crikets on here. Doesn't anyone have a anser to my Royale autofill?

Gary
2002 Royale #332

[Jerry Winchester]

Sorry Gary. The Royale I had didn't have autofill. But it had a nifty turd grinder pump.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Call CoachWorx and ask for Rick May. He will tell you what he knows.

http://www.coachworx.net/ContactUs.html


JIM:D

[CAPT MOGUL & Sandy]

I cn hear the crikets on here. Doesn't anyone have a anser to my Royale autofill?

Gary
2002 Royale #332
Hi Gary---
Just so you don't feel bad by yourself,....We just purchased our 2001 Royale and spent alittle time in it last week. We are still trying to figure out the auto fill, also!!:confused: So maybe someone will sound on the alarm and quit lurking.;)
Sandy

[Danss]

I have to turn my water pump off for the autofill to work properly. Dan

[GSwaim]

Hey Jim, thanks for the tip on Coachwoxk, I'll call them. Danss, which pump do you turn off, the A/C headhunter or the little surflow or both? I'm trying to get my arms around the alayout of this system but there seems to be little info out there. Anyone have a wiring diagram?

Gary
2002 Royale #332

[Danss]

I only have one water pump, but if I had 2 I would turn both off. Hope this helps.

[Danss]

A little more info! I turn pump off and fresh fill on then water. If water continues to run after my indicator says tank is full water pours out from under bus. When indicator says tank is full I turn off fresh fill, and I then have water pressure in bus with pump off. Hope this clears it up . Dan

[dmatz]

I have 2002 Royale the auto fill will work when fresh water hits 10% shut off at 90% you do not need to turn the pump off. The guys to call on the Royale issues are Royale Phoenix they own all the records on the coaches and is owned by two of the engineer. They are a great resource for information and parts. You give them your coach number and they have all your info. royalephoenix.com 574.206.1216 dan jordan. hope this helps

[Alek&Lucia]

Hi,

Like Doug said it is automatic. You don't have to turn off any pumps.
If anybody has any questions call me at 815-437-2856 and we can compare systems,

Alek

[GSwaim]

Thanks everyone. I spoke with Dan out at Phoenix Royale and he explained the problem to me. One of the weaknesses of Royale's auto fill system is the solenoid that closes the water valve can be distroyed by heat if left on after the water flow has stopped. I always thought the valve was spring loaded in the closed position and the solenoid opened it to fill the tank but based on my conversation with Dan that may not be true. I'm going to visit these guys in a couple of weeks and will share all the details of the Royale autofill then.

[CAPT MOGUL & Sandy]

Gary, Ed and I will be following this thread while you are at Royale Phoenix regarding the "auto fill". Please post when you find the correct way to use it. We have a 2001 Royale XLII. We stopped by there right after we got the bus in March this year to have the backup camera worked on. They did a great job on building the bus. The wood work done by them was TOP QUALITY! Say hello to Glen and Don for us.
Also, I hope that we can exchange questions with our buses and hopefully we can learn from each other. 2 brains are always better than one!
Sandy and Ed

[GSwaim]

I look forward to comparing notes.

[GSwaim]

I finally understand the Royal Autofill system. It is kind of simple once you have all the peices to the puzzle. The autofill solenoid valve is a normally closed valve the is interupting any water entering the tank from the fill hose or F/W hose fitting. When this valve is given 12 volts by turning on the HeadHunter (HH) system then placing the HH system in auto, it opens the solenoid valve permiting water to fill the tank. A weakness in the system is the solenoid valve can overheat if the city water is not connected and the auto manual switch is left in auto. It uses the city water to keep it cool. To determine when to come on and turn off it sences the level of the F/W tank by using the Headhunter (HH) tanks sensor system. The autofill valve is programmed to open when the F/W tank reaches 10% full and shuts off when the tank reaches 90% full. That means if the F/W HH tank sensor is out of calibration the autofill will be affected. If the F/W HH sensor is bad then the autofill will not work.

The biggest problem is the auto switch must be switched to manual if your not going to leave city water connected and water is flowing to cool the solenoind valve. I'm going to intall a flow sensor in the input line so the autofill valve is powered down unless it sees water coming in.

[GSwaim]

BTW, I see no reason to see why the Water pump being off or on will affect the autofill operation.

[grantracy]

while we are on this subject, my autofill vave will not stay open. I can engage and it will permit water to flow but if I release the button it will revert to closed. what does solenoid look like? where is it located?

[GSwaim]

Your autofill valve looks like a regular water valve but has a small box with wires runnig out of it attached to the vavle. Every bus is unique so It will be located along the F/W inlet piping. Finding it can be half the battle.

Your symptoms sound lke the autofill valve is working fine. The reason it doesn't stay open is that it doesn't see the water tank needing water. That is a sensor problem not a autofill valve problem. holding the button gives the vavle a signal to open and then to close when the tank is full. If you find whay the sensor doesn't send that signal your problem will be fixed. I'm betting your tank sensor display for Fresh water isn't working correctly too.

[grantracy]

you are right...noticed the sensor was reading full regardless of level...was going to deal wih it sooner or later. Never thought to connect the two. Thanks GT

[gmcbuffalo]

Granvil if you have to hold the button down do you have a "monetary on" switch instead of a ordinary rocker switch?
Greg

[grantracy]

yes it is a momentary switch.