replacement air springs

[bluevost]

Hey POGgers,

This is a continuation of Jon's thread of a couple of days ago regarding the front air springs (bags). March of '08 I had both front air springs changed. There was nothing wrong with them, but going on the 10 year rule, they came out and new ones installed. Sure enough, the new bags are 63-0259. In checking the old bags, they were indeed 63-0126 dated 22Apr94.

Ray Davis and I went out to the hanger today and did a little experiment, if you will. I brought the bus up to ride height and measured from the ground to the frame in front of the tow hooks. Ride height is 9 3/8". Then Ray worked the level lo to raise the front end up, engine still running. The bus only raised to 10 5/8, only a 1 1/4 " gain. Ray then raised the tag, and worked the level lo and the bus raised up to 15 1/2", a gain of over 6". Then he put the tag down and the front end settled at 15 1/8" and stayed there. Interesting isn't it??

Anybody got an answer for why the level lo did not raise the front end of the bus to 15 1/2 without raising the tag?

In addition to the 63-0126 number on the old bag is 1R11-096. Could this be the Goodyear part number, and could this bag still be available through Goodyear?

Happy New Year,

Ken

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Ken,

I will do some checking later to see if I can discern the difference. Right now it appears the 630126 is what the Goodyear number code defines as a nominal 11" diameter. The "footprint" size determines how much pressure is required to lift the coach, a smaller size being less capable and needing help such as lifting the tag.

The ability to lift the front end is critical not only for leveling, but to avoid damage when approaching a steep incline that normal road height cannot clear such as a driveway transition.

I have 1R11-296 listed as the Goodyear number for the 630126 but I will check out the 1R11-096 number.

[truk4u]

Good job Ken & Ray, I suspect mine will do about the same with 259's, although I haven't measured it. We're on the road to Florida and I'll do the same check and see what I get. I've done it with shop air, but I didn't measure.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I'll let Joe or Eric or Debbie post, but they resolved the problem they were having. Their bus goes all the way up with relatively low air pressure now and if I understand it they have 14,000# on the front axle.

[truk4u]

Jon,

Without me going back through all the posts, what bags solved their problem?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

630259 If my memory is correct. I was hoping Joe C. or Eric and Deb would fill in the details.

According to Joe the bus would barely get to ride height and they had to do some gyrations to get there. Again, if I don't have the numbers screwed up the ones Prevost sent were 630260, which are for a seated coach.

After realizing the front would not come up properly they changed air pressure and verified the problem was not that.

The 259 bags that they put on are the same as the 630126 that are on mine and Jim's bling mobile and that work fine. They will run the bus up to max height with a little over 100# which is what my bus requires, and it will go all the way down for an 8" range. Ride height is exactly in the middle of the range which is how it should be. FWIW, ride height should be 11.5" between top and bottom mounting plates and fully raised it should be 15.5" between plates.

Since both our buses are within a few hundred pounds on the front and they are getting the same performance now I would say the 259 bags are a replacement for the 126.

Joe told me the diameters of the 259 and 126 are the same, and that is the critical measurement when it comes to how much pressure is required to lift the coach.

[truk4u]

Thanks, I do have the 259's on mine..

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Then why do you have to go through some gyrations to lift the front?

I am a little over 14,000 on my front axle. About 100 PSI brings it up to ride height. Not much more brings it all the way up.

I never gave any thought to it until this problem with the wrong air bags came up, but when I raise mine up to put the stands under the coach, I raise the rear first, and put the stands under the rear, then lower the bus down until it sits solid on the stands.

Then I raise the front, which is all the way down so my dish gets under the garage door opening. It comes all the way up so I can put the stands under it. That means I am lifting everything forward of the rear support points which are behind the tag axle. By doing it that way I am adding more than my normal 14,000+ pounds and the 126 bags I have do the job.

Joe C measured the 259 bags and compared them to the 126 and he says they are the same. My point is why would you have trouble lifting the front?

[Ray Davis]

Joe C measured the 259 bags and compared them to the 126 and he says they are the same. My point is why would you have trouble lifting the front?

Note, that Ken Z saw exactly the same with the 259 bags, i.e. it won't raise until tag was lifted, beyond about 1.5 inches above ride height. It does seem to be a mystery why some coaches will raise, and others wont.

Ray

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Correction the 259 are the same diameter as the 260 and they both are smaller diameter than the 126.

I can not explain why the 259 will easily raise the front all the way up to its limit where the 260 couldn't even come close and the only difference is the 259 is 1 inch taller than the 260?

14400 steer weights.

We experimented put a gauge on the accessory tank built up air with the 8-V till the compressor stopped pumping and it is only 115psi on this XL then at low idle in level low the front came all the way up and at a normal time.

Then with the bus on high idle with the air compressor running and the gauges at 105 and going up the front went all the way up fast.

We also checked full travel and it was over 15 inches extended and below 8 collapsed.

Life is good for Deb and Erik. Fixed the air leak on the brake tanks too didn't drop not 1 pound overnight.

Would have been a really great time if I would not have lost my dog this morning. We had a 15 year old Golden Retriever and knew she had a mass in her spleen but at that age you just live with it. Well it ruptured and I was up with her all night and she died with me lying in bed petting her about 7 this morn. This year really sucked for us hope things get better.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

My misunderstanding. A smaller diameter is the reason. These are some points of reference.

The Goodyear number has the nominal diameter following the R. A 1R11 model designation is a nominal 11" diameter. It could be 10.5" or even 11.25"

A 10.5" diameter (actual) has 86 square inches, so to lift 14,000 two air springs need to be pressurized to around 81psi. (81 PSI X 86 Square inches X 2 air springs) will start to lift the front.

An 11" diameter (actual) has 95 square inches so to lift the front it only needs about 74 psi.

These are theoretical and it is likely the effective lifting surface is less than the diameters given above and the diameter in the Goodyear part number probably references the outside diameter of the rubber bellows which expands a little when inflated.

My point however is that as you can see from the above even a small reduction in the diameter has a large effect on the pressure required to lift the bus. Until those buses with problems lifting the front get air springs of sufficient diameter there is nothing short of increasing pressure that will make them lift. Why one bus will lift and another will not depends upon how much weight is to be lifted. If the front axle weight is heavy, more pressure is required to lift.

There are only two concerns when selecting an air spring. Prevost, for some unknown reason has chosen sizes that do not perform as the original air springs have performed. Prevost appears to be concerned about the same things we are, but to less of an extent for bus leveling.

As long as the air springs do not interfere with anything, such as rubbing the tire or any other part of the bus the size is acceptable. That means if you are not satisfied go to a larger air spring as long as the increase in diameter does not rub anywhere. The second, and equally important concern is that the air spring has no less travel than the suspension has.

This site http://stengelbros.3dcartstores.com/Rolling-Lobe_c_62.html is as good as any that I have found to research for larger air springs.

[lewpopp]

Joe,


Sorry about your loss. It will leave an empty space in your days and it will take time. As a kid I never had any sorrow for anyone who lost a pet because I never had one until I adopted my daughters when I was 65 or so. When I lost Woody I couldn't replace him for over a year because I didn't want to replace the good times we had. I have a replacement now and he is an important family member.

[rbeecher]

Truk,

I am sending you a PM.

Richard Beecher
02 Marathon XLII 45
96 VOGUE XL 40

[gmcbuffalo]

did we get a solution on this thread?
GregM

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Eric and Debbie had 630260 air bags, replaced them with 630259 and the problem with the front end not raising as it should has been resolved on their bus. They have about 14,000 on theirs.

I'm not sure if we know yet if the Mae Wests (630126) are a larger diameter, and thus can lift more or if they have been directly replaced by the 630259.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

The Mae Wests are for sure a larger diameter but that is meaningless cause ya can't get um no mo.

Now the question is why the 259's aren't raising bluevost's bus the same way the 260's were preforming on Deb and Eriks?

If I had to guess I would say just because bluevost invoice says that they got the 259's that does not mean they actually got those bags, and I ain't jokin.

[gmcbuffalo]

Going back to the raising problem. I tried the other day to raise the front up to put a set of Jon's stands under the it. Could not get the front high enough to put the 14" under it. I raised the tag but no luck. Got out the "air over" raised it up. I was going to check the numbers on the shocks so I could get another set. They are Monroes 630134, on the Monroe website they are listed for Provest XL's drive axles. 630136 are suppost to be on the front. So the question is do the driver axle shocks have less travel than the fronts and tag shocks? Could this be why I could not get the front raise that last 1/2" to put the stands under it? When I rasied it with the jacks I think I got the extra travel from the tires.
GregM

[gmcbuffalo]

Another website list the 630136 for IFS buses. The tag is the same as the drive axle. No info for the front.
GregM

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Greg I have snapped the eyelets off a couple of front shocks over the past few years on our bus. This was before I became as proactive as I have become now but think it probably happened while in level-low trying to get level on a crooked spot.

Looks like we both may have the wrong ones on the front.

The front shocks on an IFS have a threaded stem on the bottom not an eyelet.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

I just had the opportunity to do another suspension replacement it is the second in short order and on 99 and 98 chassis.

Up until now I have not had the opportunity to get anything of this vintage. So now, Ive seen three distinct differences in air delivery: valves, plumbing, hose diameter and fitting configurations.

The 98 and 99 both XL's with a small air tank attached to every bag.

Warrens 95 Did not have this so some where between 98 and 95 this change occurred. Lots of hose diameters and fittings are different. The 95 does have those wonderful non reusable push in type supplying the bags, 1/2 in plastic line.

99/98 has 5/8 and 3/4 plastic supply line going into the bags were it is 1/2 in pipe. All push-in "non-reusable" fittings.

If you are replacing bags you had better have replacements on hand because you will need some. The norgrens are plumbed goofy too. One 5/8 plastic line into a old style compression, good. Then 2 other ports are 1/2 plastic ( 1 elbow 1-T)"non-reusable type into the valve at 3/8 pipe", bad. Finally the valves have 1/4 in female pipe to both the old style and non reusable ends:confused: I am adding all those fittings to my tackle box.

The 98/99 has 3 different type hose ends feeding the brake chambers on the rear: 4 with 1 time compressed ends made to length, bad. 2 with reusable ends and 4 plastic good.

Plastic is preferable to rubber but can only be used when there is NO movement between the two ends.

This latest bus got all new brass reusable 2 piece brake hose ends where they did not previously exist and all new rubber hose for the remainder (the steer axle service brake lines and the drive maxi line already had the reusable 2 piece ends) All of the air bag fittings were changed to old style.

All the norgrens ports are 3/8 female pipe and 1/8 female pipe to the ends, for ALL years, Hallelujah:rolleyes:

The have changed the ride height valves to these little--------. made them way smaller and cheaper to produce and still charge the same.

IMO the old ones are way more robust. Again the 95 and older have them. They look like they would bolt right in the 98/99 but possibly a fitting change or two. This probably changed with the addition of the air bag tanks between 97/98, guessing.

IMO these push-in fittings work wonderfully when being used for the first time but once the seal is disrupted, such as when you pull the air bag and the fitting is now 8 or 10 yr old, it is a crap shoot if they will seal.

If you replace them and it is with the "old style" with the Ferrell the initial cost is slightly less than push-in and you have a more permanent seal and the next time you have to disassemble it it requires a Ferrell at less than a buck. The drawback is it increases the labor involved on removing valves in some tight spots. The push-ins cost more and have the potential to fail after 1 use but make removal a snap and they look slick. The Liberty guys could clear-coat them too:)

I got off the train in a small town in Ohio w/o a station only a platform at 4 AM in a snow sleet slop storm. I got the perfect cab driver. If Debbie were with me I'd of had to slow this guy way down or she would have got out. He made 45 mile or so in the same amount of minutes on 2 lane with 6 or 8 in of slop and snow ruts. As long as there is cab drivers like this who needs a lisence! The day brought heavy snow just like a day we would beg for when we were younger, an additional 8 or 10 inches of powder! I enjoyed the day in a heated garage workin on a camper eating like a king. Ain't life grand.

[dalej]

I have snapped a few myself and this is what one Prevost man told me. If your heading into a curve and hit a dip or rough spot while the bus is in a lean, you can snap a shock.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Great engineering, wouldn't you say.

[Darrell McCarley]

JOE.......I have a 1989 Prevost with 140k. My tires are 2yr old Michelin XZ2. My right front tire has a worn spot about 1ft long in the middle tread. All of the other treads show no visable wear. My first thought was a soft spot in the rubber since no other tread wear. Went to TCI Tire for a check out and possible adjustment. The manager at TCI raised the front wheel about 1in and placed a crow bar under the wheel and pulled upward. The wheel moved about 1/8 in. TCI said that I had bad King Pens therefore no tire adjustment could be made. What are King Pens, how do they wear and should I need them at 140K? I have had even tire wear for the past 80k with no issues. I know that it is almost impossible to get Michelin to adjust their tires. Please give me your opinion.

[Darrell McCarley]

JOE.......Maybe 1/16 in movement rather than 1/8 in.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

There should not be any play in the king-pins and if properly greased should last 500000+ easy.

How did he eliminate the possibility of that play being a loose wheel bearing adjustment?

Was the movement up and down or in and out? It could also be needing a shim for the thruster bearing.

When was the last time you replaced the front shocks?

[Darrell McCarley]

JOE.......The movement was up and down when he placed a crow bar under the wheel and pulled upward. I had the shocks replaced 30,000 miles ago (3yrs) at Prevost DFW. How would you check for loose wheel bearings without removing the hub assy? Would the wheel have movement, in and out, side to side, or noise from spinning the wheels while on jack stands? I called Prevost DFW today for a price quote. Wheel bearings $1500, King Pins $1800. With your help, I would like to know my options if I go Prevost for repair. Thanks Joe for your input.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Up and down 1/16 is neglidgable play in the shims between the spindle and axle for the thruster bearing.

More questions

How are the front wheels balanced and how does it preform. Are you noticing anything at the wheel that has recently changed for the worse?

[Darrell McCarley]

JOE......I have heard about shims for the front suspension but I do not know how they work. Would shims take the up and down slack out of the wheels? Is it a major task to replace or add shims?

[Darrell McCarley]

JOE......The front wheels are balanced with a smooth ride. I have noticed a slight vibration at 20-30mph. Vibration goes away with increase of speed. Are we starting to think wheel bearing?

[Darrell McCarley]

JOE....I can feel the slight vibration in the steering wheel, not in the ride.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

If it were my bus I would first swap the steer tire with a drive tire. Balance it and replace the front shocks with gas or koni. Do an alignment.

The wheel bearings are checked by removing the hub cap and removing the jam nut and checking the inner nut for correct tightness.

That price for new bearings Prevo gave you is outrageous IMO. The king-pin estimate may be more in line.

If you need to shim up the thruster bearing you may as well replace the kingpins cause you will have to all but pull them to add the washer. I do not think that is the cause for your unusuall tire wear.

A slight misalignment with a slight tire imbalance and tired shocks could have worn that tire bad. That is my opinion.

These buses are built like tanks the components they use are heavier duty than trucks and they are carrying less weight.

None of us should ever need king pins or wheel bearings unless something very drasticly wrong went on.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I'm 100% with Joe on this one.

To avoid having to repolish a wheel break down the tires when swapping from the steer to the drive. When the wheel is off is a good time to carefully inspect the steer axle components for wear or adjustment issues, but unless this coach has high mileage or has been poorly maintained (as in failure to lube the king pins regularly) I doubt if any problems will be found. Some movement is normal and the Prevost service manual provides the measurement and method. It is available on line.

http://prevostparts.volvo.com/technicalpublications/en/wiring.asp

$1500 to replace bearings is bogus. First these bearings are very robust, and second I cannot believe they are anywhere close to that price, even considering replacement will require new hub seals.

[Darrell McCarley]

JOE and JON...........Thanks for your input. I will go to a tire store this week to have the steer and drive switched. I will also check the hub with the tire removed. I have the bus serviced at Prevost DFW and Prevost Mira Loma ever 10,000 miles. I would think the king pins would be part of the lube service. Thanks again for your advice.

[Kenneth Brewer]

If you have the bearing number off the bearing, you can get a price from any bearing supply shop. All bearings have the bearing number than is used internationally. If the bearing (as long as it was 'manufactured') has a/the number it wouldn't matter if it was on a Russian farm tractor or military tank in Somalia, you can easily order it. I would be surprised if you tell me me it is more than a couple hundred dollars. I would think the $1500 includes labor (it would be ridiculous, even so).

I have replaced steer wheel and drive axle bearings on a Foretravel and a Bluebird, both, and it isn't a big deal at all except for taking drums off (if you don't have disc brakes) without dropping a testicle or two. Axle nut tightness is critical, however. But that is easy too. I can lead you through the procedure if you like.

Some easy things to check: are the tires cupped, or are the rims bent (determined by lateral run-out, which you should be able to do visually with a fixed pointer at the rim radius), or is it possible you have radial run-out which can happen if the bead slipped. It requires you have the wheel/tire off the ground and spin it.

[Darrell McCarley]

KEN......Using the good information from you, Joe and Jon, I will try to identify my problem. If I need bearings or king pins, I will talk to Prevost DFW about a little price reduction. They are good people to work with so I am sure we can work out a reasonable price. I would like to perform the work myself but I think it requires too much knowledge and labor for a shade tree mechanic like me.

[gmcbuffalo]

Guys if the tire is worn out in one spot would this not mean that something that is turn with the tire (hub, wheel or tire) is causing the wear? Seems like a king pin, axle bearing or shock which are independent of the tire would not cause a problem in one specific area of the tire.
GregM

[Darrell McCarley]

Greg......The Michelin XZ2 has 5 or 6 groves of thread. The 1 ft of wear is on the thread in the middle of the tire. I cannot understand why there is no wear on either thread on each side of the middle thread. I have never seen a tire ware in this manner. If it is out of alignment or low on air pressure, I would think it would wear on the edges. Over inflated, it should wear in the middle all the way around the tire. Because of this unusual wear pattern, I thought the tire was defective with a soft rubber spot.

[Ray Davis]

Darrell,

Are you saying that the damage is a 1 foot strip, one inch wide, i.e. it doesn't go round the entire tire?

If so, I gotta agree with Greg. I don't see how anything external is going to cause something like that limited to a 12x1 inch area of the tire.

Ray

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Darrell,

Go to Prevost armed with info and don't let them BS you about labor times. Stay close and write down what they do and when they do it. They will realize they cannot fluff up the bill. The info Ken gave about bearing numbers is true. They are generic and cheap. I doubt if you even need them.

As to labor I hope Joe confirmes this, but I can have the bearings out of the front hub in 1 hour from when I start working on the bus. Add 1.5 hours to put it back together and an additional hour to check the kingpins and deal with the hub seal and clean things up and you should be done. The reality is pulling the hub nut with the wheel in place, examining the outer bearing and race to verify the bearing is OK is likely all you need to have done. There is no reason why the inner bearing will be bad if the outer one is OK. Less than an hour for that.

If the kingpins were lubed as you say I have serious doubts if they are bad. If Prevost insists they are, make sure you keep them and post pictures. Bad kingpins will have very evident wear.

[Orren Zook]

King pin replacement (with metal bushings) should typically take 4-5 hours labor plus parts, a significantly lower price than what was quoted in an earlier post.

[Darrell McCarley]

JOE, JON, KEN, GREG, RAY, ORREN.........Got up early today for an appointment with a heavy truck wheel and alignment center. They removed the right front wheel and checked the wheel bearings and king pins. Found no ware on either. Then rotated the right front with the drive axle. Placed on a large machine for an alignment. Found the alignment to be true with no adjustments needed. With a test drive the slight vibration was gone and no sounds from the right front. Its the Michelin tire that Michelin refuses to adjust. Not the first time for me with Michelin. I still like Michelin tires and will continue to buy but not expect help with warranty issues. Thanks again guys for your help.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

That is great news Darrell.

We will continue to work on you and that Michelin disease you have;)

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Double Coin.............made in Shanghai. Still holding air. I don't have to worry about arguing about claims for tire defects. I paid my money and took my chance and don't regret it. If Michelin will not back their tires how can they justify prices that are twice what Roger and I paid for our Chinese tires.

Loyalty is a two way street. Michelin needs to respect its loyal customers with support.

[merle&louise]

I was talking to my tire guy today, and he told me that Michelin & Toyo are doing a joint venture to start making truck tires!:eek:

Has anyone read about this anywhere. I googled it but got nothing!

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Many Michelin buyers are a lot like Cubs fans. No matter how bad a product they get and how much they are charged the folks just keep coming back:(

Darrell read your own words back to yourself twice a night for 1 week.

We are assuming that the bus will not produce the same results on the drive tire that's now up front. Time will tell.

[merle&louise]

I found the article.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-122296897.html

[Darrell McCarley]

JON........How many miles do you have on your tires. Do you have a complete set (8) of double coins including the steers?

[Darrell McCarley]

JOE........You are right on. It will probably take at least 1 yr (10,000 miles) for me to see if I have a pattern of the same tire ware. It took 2 yrs on my present tires for me to find the worn spots. With your trucking experience. what brand of tires would you recomend for quality and a smooth ride?

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Darrell Jon chickened out he was new to this not spending too much on tires thing but, he will change. He has them on the drives.

I sent you a Private Message, I can not again endure hearing all the wonders of Michilen from folks who have not ever purchased or tried anything else.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Darrell,

I'm only a little tongue in cheek on this one. I think there are three years on the tires (I have only worn out one set of tires on the buses I owned, the rest of the tires I bought aged out) and I'm guessing about 30,000 miles currently on them. If it is critical I can give you specific information. I just have to get my log books from the bus.

The tires are on my drive axle, a place where it is rare to see unusual wear. I still have Michelins on the steer and tag, but let me assure you that when they need to be replaced I will not pay a premium just to get Michelins. I have had good service from the Michelins I bought in the past, but no better than from the cheapest tires I could find which are on my drive axle now.

You have eliminated defects in the bus as probable cause. If Michelin chooses to stiff you on this tire defect despite their ridiculous prices then all tire buyers need to know they are selling the sizzle and not the steak.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Some nipple-head at the Eagles Nest in Nashville, where they did some repairs in preparation for sale for the guy we bought it from, decided to replace only 5 of the 6 rear bags. I finally got around to pulling that last one (it was 61 wonderful degrees in Chicago today).

The bag was dated 1984:eek: Its like the plumber with the bad pipes I am:rolleyes:

Our bus has no Norgrens. I will take a picture of the beautifully simple and inexpensive valves they used to use, before it goes back together.

I am also upgrading to maxis on the tag and replacing the drive maxis from the 30/36's to the 30/30's replacing all the 1/2in rubber brake hose to 3/8 with the 2 piece reusable ends, upgrading to gas shocks and replacing the drive tires with 11.22-5's. This will give me all the same very readily available and less expensive components that the trucking industry enjoys

The fat lady is tuning up.

I had the opportunity to scarf up a set of the elusive Mae West bags (the0126's):) That same shop replaced 1 of the two up front and the L and R sides are different. They are going on the steer and I plan on pulling the brake drum to see if I can find that thunking sound down there in harder shorter stops. I remember a couple other folks mention that same thunk up there, hopefully I can definitively resolve that.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Strictly theory Joe, but we had the thunk on the 87 coach, but not on the current one. If I had to guess I would say it is the front axle attempting to rotate when a lot of force is applied such as braking in which the tire on the road wants to stop rotating, while the chassis wants to keep traveling.

If I had to point at one thing it would be the radius rods and the bushings compressing once the forces exceed a certain value. This is only a guess, but I was all over my old coach trying to find it.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

I hope not cause I have put new ones in up there already.

[dalej]

Joe,

It sounds like it's nice to have your baby back home. I wished you could just put a few things in it and head over to Havasu and join us next weekend.

[BrianE]

Dale, As an old Pogger says: Roger that!

[dalej]

Brian,

Now your going to get in trouble for calling Roger old! :)

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Although we can not physically be there we will be participating:eek::confused::D

Don't ask.

[Darrell McCarley]

JOE.......I have had that same thumping sound under hard breaking on my present and previous Prevost. Both 1989 models. Have no clue to the cause. I hope you find out for us.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Joe, I don't think it relates to the age of the bushings. Our coach was 2 years from new when we bought it and it made that noise any time I had to do a hard stop.

[truk4u]

I finally remembered to check out my front raise measurements as Ken and Ray did. I think the Liberty likes the warm weather, 80 degrees and I got exactly 6" of lift without lifting the tag, at high idle and a governor pressure of 130 psi. It took just over 2 minutes to raise and I have 259 bags.

[jello_jeep]

Not bad for a senior citizen, I don't even wanna know how many sheep you were thinking of!:D
Remind me to stay clear of the three of you!



I finally remembered to check out my front raise measurements like Ken and Ray did.
I got exactly 6". I think it likes the warm weather. It took just over 2 minutes to raise.