Bag, valve or fitting?

[jelmore]

There's a leak in the left rear when it gets cold. Above 60°, it's solid. In the high 40s it's slow, as much 1/4" per hour. In the low 30s it's fast, as much as 1" per hour. The auxiliary air tank holds reasonably well unless it is below 30° and then it will leak out if the compressor is off.

Some history: Prevost Dallas looked at it a month ago. I told them it dropped only when cold. It was 65° and they found nothing except a very slow leak at a fitting on the air tank. They fixed that. I'm going back to them in a couple of days and would really like to tell them where to look. It will be cold there so maybe it will be obvious, but I'd rather give them advice than take theirs. The tech said the leak could be anywhere and the coach would drop at a random location rather than a specific corner. Didn't sound right to me.

Six months ago, Prevost Dallas replaced a couple of 5-way valves and 4 quick-fill tank drain valves back there. A year before that, they replaced a Burkett valve with a 3-way 2-position Norgren.

Anyway, I'm clueless, except for the facts. Can you help?

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Jim if the left rear is going down it HAS to be either one of the 3 bags on that side rear or their related air lines and fittings or the 3 or 5 port norgren on that corner including those related fittings and air lines, period.

If it is going down that fast should not be too hard to find.

You can very easy eliminate or confirm the 2 rear most bags and fittings by soaping them up, there is a 360 degree unobstructed view of those. The front drive bag has to be accessed by removing the outer drive tire and removing the rubber flap that shields it from the wheel well then needing a mirror to see the front half of the front drive bag.

If a tech is looking anywhere but that left rear corner he is wasting your money.

The accessory air leak needs to be addressed but is an unrelated problem and is not why the left rear is dropping.
.

[lewpopp]

Hey Joe,

Have you got that Blagojevich working as a mechanic? If not, he's looking for a job if you guys really want him out of office.

What a country.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Lew I am very confused.

Usually the cook county and Illinois democratic machine politicians view the kind of stuff he is accused of as resume enhancements.:D

Why are they throwing him under the bus:confused:

[jelmore]

If a tech is looking anywhere but that left rear corner he is wasting your money.

Well, they already did 4 hours of that. Thursday morning it should be cold. Maybe they'll gift it this time. I'll whine.

[hobobimmer]

You can read on earlier posts in the "on the level" section to explain the detail behind my advice, but it was very useful for us to raise our tag and let it sit overnight. If it stands straight, problem has to be with tag bags or fittings or lines to those tag bags. If it doesn't, it has to be the other items in Joe C's list on this thread. By narrowing our issue down to the tag bags, I spent lots more time looking in the right places. This is the way we found faulty airbag on left tag this summer. Also, soap the area of the bag just below where the metal joins the rubber at the top of the bag. Don't judge results immediately. A very slow leak will show up in a couple of hours. But, our defective bag leaked overnight in the heat of summer, not just when it was cold. If they have to replace a bag, don't drive away until you are 100% sure the new bag is not defective!!!!!!!!!!!! Odds are good it will be. You can read all about that in the "on the level" section, as well. Good luck. Hope this helps. Debbie Faires

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Good point

If the symptoms cease after an overnight with the tag up the problem is either the 3 port or the tag bag.( 225 in parts)

If it does still drop it is the 5 port or the 2 drive bags (450 in parts)

Weigh these costs against what you have already spent for the tech hunting, I think you see where I am going.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jim,

Good advice above. Recognize a few things so you can speak somewhat authoritatively with the "mechanics".

The air in your suspension system is "locked" in place by the corresponding 5 port Norgren valve when the ignition key is off. If you bus leans left or right or sags down in the front your search efforts on your coach are limited to the respective air bags, the fittings, the 5 port Norgren, and in the case of the rear, the 3 port Norgren between the tag and drive axles. Included in the search for possible leaks is the corresponding three port valve which serves as the exhaust point when dumping air during leveling. PERIOD.

Because you have a 2000 coach and a Liberty you have three three port Norgrens in the steer compartment that are part of the system. You also have an accumulator air tank at their respective axle positions, apparently to serve as addidtional air volume for the air bags. Their drain fitting must be leak free.

Here is some additional leak finding comments besides the ones listed above. If the 5 port valve is leaking internaly no amount of soapy solution will find the leak. Soapy solution is only of value in finding air bag, air fitting, and air drain valve leaks. Internal leaks on Norgrens require a bench test or the use of a stethoscope or ultrasonic leak detector. If the mechanics don't understand that you are paying them for nothing.

If you suspect the 5 port Norgren for example there are other ways to verify it leaks. Remove the incoming air lines and plug the ports. If it is leaking back through the valves the bus will not drop because the path is blocked with the plug. A Norgren valve can leak "sideways" past the spool and let air escape from the end caps. That is visible with soapy solution, but only if you can see bubbles. Just like trying to see bubbles due to leaks around or under the bottom can on the air bag there are some spots you will not be able to see leaks.

But let's get real.....a full set of valves for your Liberty is less than $1000 if all are bought brand new from Prevost. A full set of air bags for your bus is $1100. Allow 10 hours for all air bags to be replaced (Eric has changed one himself in less than 1/2 hour, Joe, Roger, Brian and I have all agreed an hour per air bag on average is a safe number.) Allow 1/2 hour to 3/4 hour per Norgren (you have about 10) and you are done. Spending money to have someone look for soap bubbles, especially if they are not experts is a waste. Get Joe C. to deal with it. He knows what it takes to get the job done.

[phorner]

Joe,

Looks like you can make a career of just dealing with Prevost air suspensions :D

[dalej]

Jim,

It was down to 0-10 degrees when we left home last winter. Our first stop for the night, I could hear the air coming out from the right rear. When we arrived in the Phoenix area the problem was solved.

When I got back home, I changed all the air bags and things were good again. My bags were made in 94, so they were in use 13-14 years.

[truk4u]

Hey Dale, did I sleep through 2009?:D

Status, In the barn. Last trip 9.11-17.09 POG

[jelmore]

It's 22°. With the tag up, it dropped 3/8" in 1/2 hour and the auxiliary tank didn't drop at all. See my first post -- they replaced all the valves back there and the tank drains. Maybe it's a warranty item? The bags are the only thing not new. So, I guess it's spend some bucks on those.

Wish I could do this myself.

I liked Linda's advice. Let's just go someplace warm.

I'll take these notes to Prevost this afternoon and see if I can get some relief for the work they apparently don't know how to do very well.

[dalej]

Tom, your good!

Changed

[Jon Wehrenberg]

There is a huge misunderstanding among Prevost owners and also some mechanics. The following should be remembered, etched into your brain, tatooed on your forehead and engraved on a plaque secured to the bus.

YOUR SUSPENSION SYSTEM IS UNAFFECTED BY THE AMOUNT OF AIR PRESSURE IN THE PRIMARY, SECONDARY OR AUXILIARY AIR SYSTEMS ON THE BUS WHEN THE IGNITION KEY IS IN THE OFF POSITION.

Your air systems can be blowing air out of them and if the key in the bus is OFF, the air bags should retain air and the bus should not drop down.

Conversely, with the key OFF, you can have massive holes in the suspension system from the five port Norgren valves to the air bags and the air pressure in the bus air systems will not be affected.

[jelmore]

Oh.

Around here, eventually everything becomes clearer.

Can't wait to talk to a tech about it. I feel so much more informed.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Don't look for big things when you talk to the tech. The more we see of the work from "professionals" the more I become convinced they are great for changing parts and little more. I used to have very high regard for Prevost service personell.

If you can post an extremely detailed account of what is happening, what work has been done and what you believe is wrong I'm confident we can arm you with sufficient information to help you manage the repairs.

Going further, if you do that post the results and blast us or me for being wrong, or let us know if the advice was sound.

[jelmore]

Some questions:
What can leak when it's cold and not leak when it's warm...fittings, valves, or bags, any one of those or all? If a fitting or bag is leaking it seems obvious, but if a valve is leaking where does the air go?

I've tried to look at the air suspension presentation but I'm on a Mac and didn't get very far. Surely a Prevost tech can show me how it all fits together so I can understand it better.

[jelmore]

If you can post an extremely detailed account of what is happening, what work has been done and what you believe is wrong I'm confident we can arm you with sufficient information to help you manage the repairs.

Summarizing my earlier posts ... warm is > 60°, cold is < 40°. When warm, everything is fine. The bus sits and doesn't move. When cold, the left rear drops. With the tag up, it still drops. Do all bags have to leak for it to drop?

Six months ago, Prevost replaced two 5-way valves and 4 quick-fill tank drain valves in that area. A year before that, they replaced a Burkett valve with a 3-way 2-position Norgren.

Much thanks.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jim,

You have the early symptoms of a suspension system that is about to experience the leans regardless of temperature. As the valves age the O rings in the spools are less effective at sealing. There is obviously either less O ring flexibility or there is some shrinkage caused by colder temperatures that makes the future problems present themselves. As a result you end up with the leans when it is cold.

So you head down to the local bus fix-it shop, and they put the bus in where it is warm and they spend the contents of your wallet squirting soapy water and talking in tongues. The net result is akin to 1,000,000 monkeys trying to type the Bible. Eventually they get it.

Let's get a little ballsy here. I will assume for the moment that one of the 5 port norgrens that were replaced was on the side where it is leaning. But if not that remaining Norgren is a good place to start. don't diagnose it, just replace it. It will be cheaper.

Continuing with my neck stuck out a country mile, forget the air bags. Leaks in them don't fix themselves when it warms up if they have been OK up to this point (that rules out a crimp leak in my mind), so instead on the side that leaks replace the 3 port Norgren between the tag and drive axle. I'm not saying the air bags are perfect or not due for replacement. I am making a leap here and taking them out of consideration for the moment.

Let's see what happens.

This speculation with me suggesting how you should spend your money is based on the assumption they have been spraying soapy solutions and have ruled out leaks at the fittings.

My reason for the suggestion above is because on the rear suspension the five port norgren on the forward bulkhead ahead of the drive axle is supposed to shut off any air movement from the three air bags on its side of the bus. So if that is new and Prevost is confident it doesn't leak, either the air bags are leaking or the three port is leaking sideways past the O rings on the spool. Since this is temperature related my bet is on the three port valve.

It would not hurt to check the three port electric solenoid valve installed by Liberty in the steer compartment corresponding to the side that is leaning to see if any air is escaping through it. If it is the five port is leaking and the solenoid operated 3 port ain't so good either.

As to replacing the drains on the tanks....they have nothing to do with the leans.

[jelmore]

Just met with Bubba, the main guy in service in Ft. Worth. He seemed to know what he was talking about -- my judgement based on my education here. They'll go to work on it first thing in the morning. Should be 32° -- just right. The 5 way valves and their work on those are under warranty, the 3 way is just out of warranty. His take on the bags is they can leak in one position but not in another. We'll see how it goes. He's not the accountant, but the 4 hours of soapy water unsuccessfully invested in this from a month ago should help on this visit.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

He's about to put your wallet on a diet if it was his facility that spent four hours with soapy stuff. My confidence level when the so called experts need that much time with soapy stuff just went negative.

And I'm betting he won't listen to a word of advice from a civilian.

Me being a cynic has the inability to believe an air bag that probably has about 90 PSI inside it will leak in one position and not another.

Hector....now that I have been so harsh, do you agree with my analysis? Jim's Liberty has accumulator tanks tied in with the air bags and we have to presume they are leak free, and his three port up front that is a universal air exhaust on other coaches, is unique to the front air bags only. Two three port electrically operated Norgrens are supplied for the left and right rear to funtion as their exhaust.

With the coach dropping when the tag is raised the theory would be the rear air bag is definitely out of consideration as a problem as is the 3 port valve, but that would not necessarily rule out the three port valve leaking sideways out the end cap(s)

[dreamchasers]

He's about to put your wallet on a diet if it was his facility that spent four hours with soapy stuff. My confidence level when the so called experts need that much time with soapy stuff just went negative.

And I'm betting he won't listen to a word of advice from a civilian.

Me being a cynic has the inability to believe an air bag that probably has about 90 PSI inside it will leak in one position and not another.

Hector....now that I have been so harsh, do you agree with my analysis? Jim's Liberty has accumulator tanks tied in with the air bags and we have to presume they are leak free, and his three port up front that is a universal air exhaust on other coaches, is unique to the front air bags only. Two three port electrically operated Norgrens are supplied for the left and right rear to funtion as their exhaust.

With the coach dropping when the tag is raised the theory would be the rear air bag is definitely out of consideration as a problem as is the 3 port valve, but that would not necessarily rule out the three port valve leaking sideways out the end cap(s)

Jon,

I do agree with your analysis, with comments.

In your post #14, you stated that with the ignition key in the off position, any of the three air systems have no impact on the suspension system. That is definitely true for models ~1996 and above. However, ~1996 and older coaches, the tag axle 'controls' are sourced from the auxiliary air connection in the rear of the coach. These Norgrens require air pressure to remain engergized. If aux air pressure is lost, the norgrens in this control circuit will release, with the result of air being dumped from the tag axle. The four main drive axle air bags, two on each dual, are unaffected by this action. Also, the front air bags are also unaffected by this action. Prevost has issued a service bulletin #96-14B, Air System Improvements, that reverses the tag axle logic to the standards of the newer coaches.

Concerning 'Bubba' at the Prevost Service Center. He replaced the most rear air bag, passenger side, on my coach. He replaced it late in the evening, while having an extended conversation on his cell phone. (When I got the coach home I diagnosed the pesky leak as a cracked air fitting on top of the air bag he replaced??) After placing my coach on their lifts three separate times (and days), each time additional leaking components were found? and the repair bill continued to escalate each time.

My experience with Prevost Fort Worth has not been good. The good thing I can saw, is they did honor their warranty. It only took three separate trips (500 miles round trip) from Livingston to Fort Worth to resolve a leaking rear wheel seal. Bubba was not the service manager when I had my coach at Prevost Fort Worth.

As far as air bags leaking in one position and not another position. I have not experience with this dilemma. But anything is possible??

Jelmore, I would be glad to chat with concerning my experiences, give me a call 936-328-7881. I will be available until 8:30 pm this evening, CST.

Hector

[jelmore]

Jelmore, I would be glad to chat with concerning my experiences, give me a call 936-328-7881. I will be available until 8:30 pm this evening, CST.

Hector

Hector, thanks. We spent too much time out on the town tonight. Missed the chance to chat.

Hope it goes well in the morning. I feel well armed, sort of.

[jelmore]

He's about to put your wallet on a diet if it was his facility that spent four hours with soapy stuff

...snip...

With the coach dropping when the tag is raised the theory would be the rear air bag is definitely out of consideration as a problem as is the 3 port valve, but that would not necessarily rule out the three port valve leaking sideways out the end cap(s)

Jon, I like that three port valve leaking sideways theory. It may cost a hundred bucks, but I'll run that past them.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jim,

Rather than debate the three port valve theory, and allow them to mess with your finances a bit before they finally get around to it, why not get them to replace it, no questions asked.

The worst that will happen is I've been wrong, I made you spend $56 for the valve and 1/2 hour to change it. It's coming up on 9 years of age anyway so its life is nearly over. If that was not it at least you haven't paid for more soapy solution and that can be ruled out.

BTW, if Hector has agreed with my analysis I feel very confident in it because he is unmatched in analyzing these systems and taking the complexity out of understanding them.

[jelmore]

This was a very minor repair. Drain valves in the quick-fill tanks were leaking. Two had been replaced six months ago and the thread sealer had failed. The o-ring in the older one had failed. The soap bubbles were obvious. They replaced all three valves. Joe and Bubba (Ft. Worth) got together on this and it went very quickly. Bubba knows how this system works and Joe is a sharp mechanic. The valves don't leak -- they were tested by removing hoses and listening with a stethoscope.

Result? Overnight at 34°, nothing has moved.

I've learned way more than I ever knew there was to know about how this system is put together. Pilot lines, LevelLo, Liberty patches, valves, tanks, bags. It's an amazing system and with some knowledge of it, probably not difficult to diagnose a problem. I don't know why the techs aren't better trained on this or why they don't put specialists on these things. I imagine there's a huge amount of money wasted on repairs like this.

Thanks all for the help.

[jelmore]

Just reread my post and wanted to make it clear ... the air leaks were in the three quick-fill tanks drain valves. The 5-way and the two 3-way Norgren valves, the fittings and the air bags had no leaks.

[phorner]

So, Jim, are you suggesting that these drain valves be replaced as a matter of air suspension system maintenance when the all the rest of the system (air bags, Norgren valves) is replaced?

Is it prudent to change them out at the same time since the material costs are minimal and you have a better "guarantee" of a leak-free project?

What's next.....replacing all the air tanks too ??? :eek:

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

This tidbit is from post #19.

"As to replacing the drains on the tanks....they have nothing to do with the leans."
__________________


When Jon gets back from visiting with Roger I'm sure he will have something to say!


:D JIM

[jelmore]

These tanks are the quick-fill tanks -- there is one for each air bag, and all of this is downstream from the 5-way valve that lets air into this left rear part of the suspension. If any single item downstream from the 5-way valve leaks, then that area of the suspension will drop. In my case, it was the drains on those tanks. Very easy to see with the soap bubbles, very easy to repair. If they don't leak, then I'd guess don't change them out. If they do leak, if the bubbles are around the threads, the resealing would fix that. If the bubbles are from around the drain handle, then the o-ring inside the valve has failed and the valve needs to be replaced.

Jon, correct me please if this is wrong. But this is the word from these guys here in Ft. Worth, and I was under the bus with them the entire time while this was being done.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jims........As I mentioned to Hector Jim E's model coach has what I call accumulator tanks plumbed directly to each air bag apparently to increase the volume of air available to each air bag. When you drain them, you drain the air bag also.

The tanks that have nothing to do with the suspension system are the wet, primary, secondary and aux air tanks and as I mentioned they are all ahead of the five port Norgren that blocks air flow out of the air bags.

I suspected the 3 port because I though Jim E said the tank drains were replaced.

Jim C, your coach does not have the tanks whose drains were creating the problem.

[jelmore]

Jon, those pesky drains had been replaced 6 months ago, the professional just didn't do a very good job. They were under warranty, but it's still big hassle.

Now, back to moving about the country.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

I imagine there's a huge amount of money wasted on repairs like this.


Our wasted money, their PROFIT MARGIN. ! :eek:

Gary S.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

I initially changed my drains to drains with a spring action with a small cable attached to them so the moisture could be drained off without having to get underneath the bus. The drains in question here are notorious for leaking, even newer ones and especially when it gets cold.

I have again changed my preference and now am using the old style radiator pet cock style drains for the air tanks. They are the ones with the wing nut looking nut that were on radiators before they went to aluminum and plastic.

I know you have seen them.

They tend to get a little hard to open sometimes but will not leak even when it gets cold.

[dreamchasers]

These drain valves can be a problem. My solution to stop minor leaks was to depressure all tanks. Then I took a tube of lithium grease, placed the tube end over the valve discharge and squirted a 1/2" slug of grease into the valve. After spinning the valve handle a few time, they were all sealed. I am confident that by doing this simple maintenance item every couple of years, these valves will seal. I am sure that lubricating the seals internally on these small valves caused a good seal.

It has been my observation in dealing with older coaches, rubber is the enemy. Especially, when attempting to get a coach's air system to seal bubble tight. I have solved numerous air leaks simply by lubricating the sealing surface.

Hector

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

It's a funny thing about getting older and remembering different things, or is it forgetting things. Well I don't know what it was about Hectors post that made me think of something to pass on.

When I had my production shop, one of the industries I supplied was that of aftermarket automatic transmission repair parts. To many consumers anything other than OEM (original equipment manufacture ) is inferior and marginal to say the least. This is not true as the only way for an after market supplier to sell his product is to claim it will exceed OEM specs and performance and be replaced free of labor claims.
So anyway, the parts were never made from blueprints, they were duplicated from samples of OEM parts and reverse engineered. First measured blueprints, then tested for metalurgical data and finish. There was a study of the use and function and any mating parts and characteristics of operation that would influence the quality and function of the part. Anything one could do to make the part superior to OEM was done. Tolerances were determined by measuring OEM samples and holding dimensions between them, most often +/-.0002 in. After 25 years supplying one customer no rejects or returns.

To make a long story shorter. It was determined that "Viton" O rings are superior to "Buna" rubber O rings. Buna is what you get when you don't specify anything.
If you are rebuilding any valves or anything with an O ring and you want it to perform better, order "Viton" O rings from a supplier in the proper size and you will have a superior product. Typically a bearing supply house will also supply O rings.

Other O ring facts: There are inch sizes and metric sizes. Over and above that there are plus and minus sizes to the standard sizes (available from specialty suppliers )

The Viton material is also available in seals.

JIM

[dogear]

This is an old post so I am not too sure whether this is the right place to enter this discussion. It is clear that everybody here knows waaaaay more than I do about the air system on these coaches. The main reason I wanted to enter into this discussion is that I have the EXACT same issue as the original poster. My issue is even on the right rear of the coach and the leak occurs at the same temps. Coach is at Featherlite, Sandford, FL right now for repair of the leak and of course, because it is Florida and warm, the thing won't leak. Hopefully the solution is leaking drains. However if it isn't is my only solution to get the coach back to a colder climate so the leak will appear again? Anyone have any suggestions for a service place closer to me (Lead, South Dakota) than Sandford Florida? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.......JR

[Sid Tuls]

Hey JR, we were in Lead a couple of weeks ago and had a a great time in your state! I had posted this on another thread but when I saw your post just wanted to say hi. Had dinner at the round about or train station and it was a high lite of our trip!! Safe traveles

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jim,

You really, really should get to Kerrville. As a new owner trying to learn the coach is like drinking from a fire hose. As every owner eventually figures out the suspension at some point will give problems, and if you as an owner turn the bus over to a repair shop and ask them to fix it you might as well just leave your wallet and checkbook on the dash.

Your bus is new enough that replacing the air bags and the Norgren valves is not recommended because that is overkill. But chasing a leak that will not show up in warm temps is a huge waste of time and greater waste of your money.

There are only 3 potential sources of leaks at the right rear that I can think of besides the fittings in the lines to the 3 air bags on that side. The fittings obviously need to be checked, but I would not suspect them. I would carefully check the three air bags, 2 on the drive axle cradle and one on the tag axle. Look especially areound the top where it is crimped to the bellows.

The 5 port Norgren valve may be leaking and no amount of soapy water sprayed on it is likely to find that leak unless it is going sideways past the spool and out the end caps. The final component I would look at is the 3 port Norgren valve between the two axles.

Having said that no matter how detailed the tech is, if the leak doesn't show up when it is warm it is a waste of time and money until the leak ALWAYS occurs.

This is a topic that has been covered in detail on several threads, but bottom line is to wait until the leak is serious an dalways present before chasing it. Yes, leaks first show up in cooler weather but eventually show up all the time. That's normal.

[dogear]

Called The Round House, did you stay at Elk Horn RV park, it's a good one. Glad that you had a fine time. There are some good eating spots that I can help you with next time you are out here! Cheers.....JR

[dogear]

Yup that is what I figured on the leak. There were some other issues that needed tending to so all was not lost as far as the shop visit. Unfortunately Kerrville just doesn't fit the schedule this year. Great advice I will have them stop messing with the leak and tackle the other issues instead. We did actually find a fitting loose on the front left steer airbag and fixed that ourselves. Took 3/4's of a turn so maybe the rear fittings are loose as well. Problem is this coach sat for almost two years before I started using it again 4 months ago. Before that I had someone else drive it for me. Even though I have owned the thing since new, it is like being a new owner because I didn't mess with anything about it for the first year or so that I owned it. I think that you have saved me a bunch of money with your advice Jon. Just out of curiosity were you in Helena Montana this summer, none of my business and you can tell me to $%#@@$%^ right off but we were parked at a camp ground just outside of Helena this summer and thought the Prevost next to us might have been you? Cheers.......JR

Just got off the phone with Featherlite and the tech said that they had actually found a few leaks but he agreed with you that they wouldn't spend a whole lot more time on it and to wait until it was leaking all the time to fix. Looks like yu saved me some bucks! Sure appreciate it.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Not in Helena this year. Won't cross the Mississipi westbound until Wednesday on the way to Kerrville.

A sure recipe for bus problems is to not run one often. The suspension system valves get exercised when you use the coach, level it, and make them work. Anytime a bus spends a long period of time not being used we see problems. You may have to sort them out as you use it.

[Larry W]

We are the ones that were parked next to you in Helena.

[dogear]

Hi Larry, it was on your advice that I joined POG, what a great resource! Thanks so much. Noticed that you guys live in Montrose, any advice on driving (or not driving) in snow conditions? It's 19 up here today with 35mph wind gusts and blowing snow, winter has arrived! Cheers.......JR

[dogear]

Air leak final outcome (hopefully) is that when the coach was in the shop at Featherlite they did manage to find and fix some air leaks at minimal cost. The coach sat at the International RV Park in Daytona for a week and took what I considered to be an acceptable three days to lean a little. The minute we got the coach up to Dalton GA to spend the night the thing leaked down overnight, of course it got down in the low fifties overnight. Back in South Dakota now and we took the fender off on the left rear of the coach and we could actually hear the air coming out of both expansion tank drain valves. This seems to be the problem mentioned at the beginning of this post. The valves are 9 bucks a piece so I should have just had them replaced at Fetherlite as a matter of course. The Prevost parts guy said that normally what happens is that you fix one leak and more surface, hopefully that will not be the case here! Not sure why Featherlite stopped producing the leveling system whereby you leave the electric air compressor on and the auto level system checks the level of the coach periodically and if needed it levels it. Sounded like a cool feature to me. Anyway thanks for all the learned advice. Cheres......JR

[Larry W]

Jim
Don't have much advice for driving in snow and wind other that park the bus and turn up the thermostats and TV.
Larry