I"ve seen something on e-bay...advice please..

[Journeyone144]

Hi All,
I just saw a Prevost Country Coach on E-bay...buy it now 49K
Please take a look at it and give me your feelings about it...I would buy it even tho it's not a Liberty...because it has every thing laid out the way I want it at least...
Hugs always Viv...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140287785358&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1123&viewitem=

I got so excited I forgot to give you the URL...at e-bay...please send your opinions to my home e-mail addy...
journeyone@comcast.net I'll get them faster...

[tdelorme]

"Price is PLUS TT&T and dealer prep fee."

I do believe I would find out how much his "dealer prep fee" is before I pulled the "buy it now" trigger.

[Tully]

Viv:

Sent you an email.

From what I can tell, I see a coach that has not been taken care of. I would think that anyone of us POG members can look close at the pictures and tell this.

My rims shine like money and things are clean and well sorted. This coach look to have been used and not in a good way. Hours on genny? Actual miles on coach? Records? Too many loop holes.

There is a reason asking or buy it now is only $49,000.

My opinion.

Tully Lee Garrett

[phorner]

Also, it would appear that this coach was driven 80,000 miles/year for the past 2 years..... ?

Engine replaced 2 years ago yet 160k on it since re-build?

I would be very wary....

[truk4u]

The engine compartment alone shows the neglect..

[0533]

Viv,

It is great that you have such a strong desire to own a Prevost bus, and you should.

I would however consider contacting a POG recommended dealer or POG recommended expert and give him your financial guidelines and let him sort out the best solution for you. Steve Bennett or some of our other POG members might be prepared to track down the best coach for you, submit a short list and zero in the the right one.

I am certain that this way you will avoid the many pitfalls that all of us can fall into when making this important purchase, especially important when considering an older coach, as much can go wrong. Its a huge undertaking that really requires a checklist and a Prevost expert, I would not want to undertake the purchase of a 1990 bus without someone who has these skill sets next to me.

Viv you can spend 2X's the $49K on service and repairs if you are not careful, the price is only one aspect of the purchase.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Viv (and all who have responded),

We would love to have you have your dream become a reality. But for that to happen and not turn into a nightmare you have to understand buying a Prevost is not something you can do without a lot of preparation and a considerable amount of effort.

Viv, several of us have attempted to help but we have failed because our communications have been poor at best and because we never know which direction you are heading.

No one can evaluate a bus on a web site. No one. Can't be done. Don't try.

To determine if a bus is going to be in consideration requires seeing it in person. Before money has changed hands, before deciding if it is acceptable, and even after seeing a bus there is still a lot involved before money changes hands, even a down payment of earnest money.

You Viv have to see the bus you are considering with your own eyes before anything else happens. If traveling to see a bus is a financial hardship then the answer is simple: You cannot afford the cost of ownership. If the seller will not allow that to happen walk away from further consideration.

After you have seen the bus of your dreams, again before money changes hands you need to have the bus inspected. I urge you to have someone who is familiar with the converter and the chassis. You may have to pay some serious dollars for that inspection. If you cannot pay for an inspection you cannot afford the cost of ownership. (At this point Viv I would love to see you fulfil your dream, but a part of me is hoping you will end your quest. I see too many issues ahead for you based on this past year's events.)

After the inspection you will get a list of the condition and what needs to be done to the coach if anything. From that point forward you have to decide if you and the owner can come to terms and who will pay for any needed repairs.

The ball is in your court Viv. I won't even look at a $49,000 coach for you. It is junk. In fact at $100,000 expect to spend some very serious money putting a coach in good reliable condition.

[Tully]

Jon,you hit the nail on the head. 100%

Viv, follow the advise given and you will do as well as can be expected.

Best of luck!

Tully Lee Garrett

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Viv, I know it sounded like Jon was a little hard on you, but everything he said was true, and truly only in your best interest.

Everyone here knows how much these jewels cost to run and keep running. You can't make a purchase like this BASED just on the intial cost. It will never stop there, and you have to have some base line of the what those costs will be based on the condition of the bus you want to purchase.

To try and put it simply, if you bought this bus @ $49K but had to spend another $50K to get it running properly, how would you feel about your purchase then?

We all want you to get your bus, but "shudder" when we hear you may have lost $5000 in the process to cover a salesmans commission? I hope you got that back!

Good Luck, we are all rooting for you.

Gary S.

[flyu2there]

Casual observation....Look's like the sole source for air-con, and maybe heating, is the single roof air unit, the compressor in the engine compartment does not look like it has done anything for some time. I may be mistaken but do not believe that CC ever used Cruise-Aires.

Also it has scored way too many miles in two years so what was it, a less expensive tour coach for Guy and Ralna (that will test your metal!), a rental or what?

One of those things that fall into...."if it is too good to be true, it usually is"

John

[Journeyone144]

I've always known Dreams don't always come true..and my trying to realize mine alone would be a real undertaking..but I had to try..
I agree with all the replies..I really didn't even have to be told..I think I already knew and this last one was just grasping at straws..
Many Thanks for all your sincere concern..
Warm Hugs Always Viv



Casual observation....Look's like the sole source for air-con, and maybe heating, is the single roof air unit, the compressor in the engine compartment does not look like it has done anything for some time. I may be mistaken but do not believe that CC ever used Cruise-Aires.

Also it has scored way too many miles in two years so what was it, a less expensive tour coach for Guy and Ralna (that will test your metal!), a rental or what?

One of those things that fall into...."if it is too good to be true, it usually is"

John

[Tully]

Viv:

I think you are still in the drivers seat on this one. Prices are at an all time low and there are a number of owners who want out for what ever reason.
Do not give up!

This is your dream so make it happen. All here can help.

Tully Lee Garrett

[Will Garner]

John,

I have a CC of the same vintage, 1990 shell and April 1992 conversion date. CC did use Cruise-Aires. In fact usually three of them. Two are mounted up front in the "spare tire position" and one is mounted in the thrid curbside underbay in my coach. They still work after doing some work on them when we first acquired the coach. Even in NC it is difficult to check how well an A/C unit is working in December - January. The heater and Webasto on the other hand checked out just fine!

Later ...

[Tully]

My 90 Country Coach as three roof top units and over the road a/c.

Tully

[Joe Cannarozzi]

O/K here we go.

Why is it that many like to boast about the million mile bus's that we are driving but when one comes along with some mileage everyone runs from it?

I respect every one's opinion so if you want to beat me up here feel free.

I very much agree with seeing and driving a bus before buying and having someone that knows Prevo conversions and is a trusted and proven mechanic along for that. Viv called me and was willing to fly me down there and meet her to do just that. I do not profess to be the worlds greatest but I think I fill the previously suggested requirements.

Next most here have much newer buses and because of that much more complicated buses and I believe have a overly cautious view of potential problems based on that added complexity and the related costs that is not in the earlier conversions. Most who have similar vintages have paid way more for them and for whatever reasons aren't willing to entertain the notion that just possibly in the end if they bought a basket case and had a reliable source to fix the issues could have spent less.

I have an 85 and I can tell you it's systems are way more comparable to a plastic camper than that of a current conversion, WAY CLOSER. I have seen many bus's now and I can tell you without a doubt at purchase time ours was the
most neglected I have come across. The guy who sold
it to us has been in the business for better than 25years and recently came and drove it down to Florida for us and I can not tell you how many compliments he gave me as to how well it drove and preformed now. I don't say that to brag but to attest to the Good product that we are discussing

Viv is on about her UMTEENTH camper and the 90 CC in question is before CC started doing more complicated conversions and that would be great for her, way more appropriate than her trying to figure stuff on an elegant lady.

I have a personal friend who did an on site look at that bus and told me the engine and trans are solid. This bus has seen much recent regular miles I see that as a plus.

If she COMPLETLY replaced the entire suspension system with new brakes and tires and had someone do it who would not fillet her and could shop her a reasonable cost on the tires that would run up around 10 or 12K.

An in person inspection would reveal what additional costs related to the house would be needed and a pretty educated decision could be made at that time.

Here is a bus that she could write a check for and additionally have the resources to invest up to another 20 without having to borrow a nickel.

I think I remember someone saying that the market does not realize the value in the older coaches.

I know that there are lurkers out there that are PETRIFIED by all the problem threads and costs nightmares threads and the overwhelmingly complicated systems problems threads that we often speak of that these things have grown into. Hopefully my opinion will open some of those eyes and instill some confidence on moving towards ownership.

[tdelorme]

Well said, Joe. Personally, I would spend a hundred bucks or so to get the computer read. It may have been reset at some point, but if the service records are complete from the reset forward, it might be just fine.

[LarryB]

Joe, Love your last paragraph. Well said.

Larry

[rfoster]

Well said Joe. You should have run for senator. In another state.

It is difficult for me to continuously harp on problems with these buses has I have not had continuing problems with the ones I have owned. I used them regularly (76 day/nights last year) not as much as a fulltimer but enough to create a few of my own mistakes -all self inflicted issues and too embarassed to post (and when I make mention of them privately they get announced to the whole group by my pals).

Bottom line, I paid the bucks cause I like the Prevost shiney metal and love the lifestyle and all that it encompasses. The diesel fumes, the road, the maintenance and best of all I can leave town go anywhere and sleep in my own bed! :cool:

Ain't that what its all about and not be in a state of fear of breaking down and never getting the joy of owneship, or the great escape from the rat race and the adventure of the open road.?

Yes, chit happens. But I work hard to be lucky.

[Denny]

Joe,

Thanks for saying what I was thinking.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

I have spent the better part of the summer working on bus's that folks have paid 2, 3 , or 4 times as much for, replacing parts and spending money on all the things she is being warned about if she buys this older one and doesn't choke up more lewbucks up front.

When we got ours it was tore up, it was the only way we were gonna get in to one. It is far from wore out. I am very negligent when it comes to keeping maintenance and cost records possibly cause I am a bit of a grease monkey and did not intend to sell anytime soon or for profit but I have not spent that much on ours to bring it back.

Do wish I had about another 10 to spend on it, heck ya, but the inability to do so will not hurt its ability to be safely used and enjoyed.

I am really suprised at all the innitial positive feedback to my opinion, it does my heart good.

Rodger when I am finished with this crap I have gotten myself into I am leaving this county and state and will NEVER set foot on this ground again.

[Journeyone144]

Morning All,

Bless you Joe C. An easier one is out there somewhere..Hugs..

Thank you all for giving me back my Faith.. I know I could never give up but maybe I am reaching to high..I'm so glad I came and read all your posts this morning..

I really would prefer the lower height and simpler controls of an older one..
Old Like Me..especially since I'll probably be going it alone the rest of my driving days..

But..I do have to stick to my guns about the floor plan..

Dinette Booth or TABLE and CHAIRS on PASSENGER Side so I can see my Patio..from Table..not the wall of the bus next to me..
CROSS ISLAND Bed so I don't have to climb on the bed anymore to get into Cab. or Closet..
Dresser SHELF across the back of coach with drawers under for my Musical Keyboard..
Walk Thru' Bath for SEEING to rear of bus..Side aisle is claustrophobic to me..
Prefer Two Sofas, no Chairs..

I'll Keep On Keeping On.. Many Thanks
Warm Hugs Always Love Viv

http://community.webshots.com/user/journey144





Viv:

I think you are still in the drivers seat on this one. Prices are at an all time low and there are a number of owners who want out for what ever reason.
Do not give up!

This is your dream so make it happen. All here can help.

Tully Lee Garrett

[phorner]

Joe,

You're always welcome to become our neighbor in the Sunshine State!

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Joe,

I can't dispute a thing you have said. But for you and Viv this needs to be put in context. Like you, an older bus does not scare me. But we both know that until stuff gets sorted out the dream has the potential to be a nightmare.

Viv should not be exposed to anyone that could take advantage of her, so at least in my mind I would like her to get a coach that offers no surprises. There are two ways to do this on a budget. The first is to find that hidden jewel. The coach in her price range that has been well maintained, has just gotten a new set of tires and batteries and has everything working. That ideal coach will be cheap, and have detailed service records. That is her dream. (That version of the dream is unlikely)

The second option is to get a coach that has the colors and layout she wants, but is more typical of the condition of an older coach. That coach has to be dirt cheap so after the purchase it can be turned over to someone like you, and your mission will be to redo the underside and after you have taken care of the entire chassis, you will go through the house portion and do the same thing. It may cost $20,000 or $30,000 to fully restore it, but when Viv takes it on the road she will be driving a bus that is not going to expose her to mechanics who will take advantage of her.

I know from experience however that as these coaches age, surprises lurk around every corner. None of us can predict where the next failure will be on an older coach, especially one that has been rode hard and put away wet. It is the nature of the beast. Heaters and furnaces fail, unnoticed water tank leaks rot the bay floors long before the minor leaks are noticed, AC units quit for no apparent reason, alternators fail, seals leak, lights burn out, etc. What you and I see as minor, easily fixed, and no problem could be a huge problem to Viv and I think every single post and all the advice given has been made with the intent to shelter Viv from becoming a victim as much as we can.

I don't think anyone here is down on these conversions because they are unreliable, because they occasionally require service, or because they are not to be trusted. I think everybody here is being cautious because none of us wants to see Viv hurt.

[Darrell McCarley]

JOE.....I agree with every thing you said. When I was looking for a bus 6 yrs ago, I knew that regardless of year model that I would re-paint, update complete interior and make the overall condition as good as new. I would have done this on a 1998 model or 1989 model. I shopped for the bus with the best mechanical condition and lowest miles for the price. I bought a 1989 XL that I have spent thousands of lewbucks on but it does not matter because I have the bus that I designed, updated to like new and is in great mechanical condition. Most important, I like my Prevost . It doesn't get any better that that.

[Journeyone144]

This turned out real long..but I wanted to show my appreciation to everyone..

Hi Jon, Joe, All,

No one wants to hear the sordid details of the past ten years of my association with mechanics and dealers..since my husband passed away..
I have put one 30,000 deposit on a Diesel Bus..based on the photos on their Website that I refused to buy after I drove it..and was forced to choose another RV from that Dealer in Houston, Texas.. www.motorhomesusa.com purchased outright for the exact amt. of the deposit on the Bus..I drove that 34' 87 Fleetwood Limited Home to NJ..but on the way I was in a parking lot in Fl..when a car lost it's Cruise Control and smashed into me, tearing up the entire pass. the side of the coach..Delayed two weeks with not too serious injuries..but I drove that coach home with the heel of my broken foot and parked it, never to drive it again..!!

Next I bought a 95 Winnebago Vectra for 50K..at Scott Coach in my home town..and soon learned I was claustrophobic in what felt like a 15' rather than a 35' Coach because it was a side aisle bath..

Lastly I bought the 37' 98 Dolphin at LazyDays in Seffner, Fl. for 80K ..8K cash plus tax..and my two trades..the Vectra and the Limited..I have it now 7 yrs..

If you want to know what I've been thru' with that see my Webshots Pages..

Some of the repair not being done is my fault because of my son passing away so suddenly..It was a terrible shock to be told your son has been found dead from blood poision due to minor surgery on his elbow for a pinched nerve..The red line indicating blood poison was under his arm and reached his arm pit without any of us noticing it..the autopsy said it had taken about two hours to kill him..

I stopped everything..I lost over 40 lbs in 3 months.. I just couldn't eat and forced every bite..Dr. told me I must do something or I would die too..

I don't like mountain driving because I had a bad experience in the 50's on Cork Screw Mt. in Al. enroute to Memphis Tn..but that is women talk only..

Trying to take Dr's advice & knowing the only place I'd never been was Ca. and I thought there would be high mountains to cross to get there..lol..so I wouldn't take the Dolphin..Instead I bought a 19' Class B Coach House..from a neighbor..for 20K..and drove that wee coach 11K miles in a 5 mo. time frame..Trouble free, mind you...smile..

My son Bobby's boy age 20 was living in Tuscon, Az. a quite famous Wrestler out there..calling himself Wasted Youth..so I went to see him and then continued on to the Slabs in Niland, Ca..All this and meeting in person many people from the RV-Singles Group I've belonged to since 2002 did help the grief..I came home able to smile again..and I love the CH for shopping and weekend visits to my sister who lives in Senior Citizen Residence 70 miles north of me..could never fit the Dolphin in that parking lot..

Not to worry about my roughing it..last winter I took the Dolphin to Fl..and stayed 3 months with no water..but I managed to carry what I needed up those 5 steps every day to get by on..Showered inside the Moose Lodge..until my appt. with National RV to fix the water and do a complete check on the Dolpin, that never happened because National had gone Belly-Up in the meantime..I got to Lakeland to find their doors Locked and no phone call to cancel my appt..but when the Dometic Elite Fridge door fell off on my foot..in the Walmart Parking Lot in Lakeland, Fl..that was the icing on the cake..I headed home..again driving with a broken foot..Smile...it's ok..

I didn't leave for Fl..this Nov. as usual because the water still isn't repaired..I can find no one to do it in NJ..Briefly the parts they need can't be found..so I'm stuck here in my house and have been looking doubly hard for the Prevost..hoping to get down to Fl..for the rest of the winter..but I don't want to do it again with no water..and now no Fridge..that I did have repaired but it has quit working anyway..adding to my troubles with the Dolphin..that even if I spend the money to fix I can't use as a trade on any Prevost..so I didn't do it..

I've promised my Dau. Sharon I would stay home for Xmas with her, been 5 yrs. and then if I have to I probably will take the wee Coach House down to Fl..
Where there's a will there's always a way..

Hugs Always Love Viv..



Joe,

I think every single post and all the advice given has been made with the intent to shelter Viv from becoming a victim as much as we can.

I don't think anyone here is down on these conversions because they are unreliable, because they occasionally require service, or because they are not to be trusted. I think everybody here is being cautious because none of us wants to see Viv hurt.

[ajhaig]

I know that the 8V92 is a time tested and proven motor, but is there a point at which the 8V92 will be considered obsolete?

We had minor issues with parts availability when we were on the road (not to mention trying to buy straight 40 weight motor oil) and it also seemed like we were limited as to repair shops that had someone on staff that knew their way around the 8V92.

This may not be a factor for Viv, but it seems to me that with prices where they are now stepping into a series 60 may be the way to go.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

AJ the thing was a bit of a novelty from the day it was designed and as far as your concerns I believe that day if ever is a long way off.

[0533]

Viv called me last night and asked if I would be willing to contact Dr. Steve katz the owner of Prevost Trader in Lakeland Fl. PrevostTrader@comcast.net
Ph# (239) 229-8207

Steve is a retired Dentist, born and raised in New York. Throughout his career Steve owned a motorhome, and ran a motorhome business.

Steve is a Prevost owner and enthusiast, and comes to us from Naples Coach.

Steve seems like a decent guy, and am sure once he is able to recall the circumstances will take care of this problem and refund Viv her $5,000 Deposit.

I said that I would call Steve, but asked Viv to send along as much detail as possible, she did.

I am hoping for feedback on how best to proceed and if you know Steve could you ask him to deal with this misunderstanding.

I would like to preface this by saying that I have spoken to Steve this morning, and the outcome, lets say was less than successful.

Steve's response to me was that Viv made an offer to purchase the 1993 Prevost H and that she is known by at least 12 dealers as a real pain in the neck and has wasted their time over the past months with false intentions.

The dilemma here is that nothing about this transaction appears to be normal, the entire communication with Viv and Steve in my opinion is way out of the ordinary. Here are a few pieces of communication that Viv has shared, see below labeled 1 & 2.:

I think there is some type misunderstanding and am also certain that Steve Katz wants to help out in this matter, and certainly would not want to be thought of as a dealer who would take advantage of an elderly Widow who was trying to live out her dream, especially if she had changed her mind.

My hope is that if anyone knows Steve Katz (as I might have confused him with my phone call today) would you share Viv's desire for the return of her $5,000. deposit as she is no longer interested in the purchase of this 1993 Prevost any longer.

FootNote: You might note that at no time has Viv seen this coach, she does not know who owns this coach and has no one else inspect this coach on her behalf, and has signed no contract to purchase the Bus to the best of my knowledge.

#1. PrevostTrader

Phone: (239) 229-8207 Fax (352)753-9799

sales@prevosttrader.com

Dear Vivian:
Congratulations on the purchase of your Prevost coach. We wish you many years of enjoyment with your new “home on wheels”. By choosing a Prevost, and especially one that was converted by Liberty, you have selected a coach that originally sold for over one million dollars.
I can tell you that I know this coach very well, and that it has received several mechanical updates and upgrades by Prevost in Jacksonville, Detroit Diesel, and by Liberty in Stuart, Florida.
The interior was re-modeled in 2004, and the current owner has installed new tires, new A/C and many other items that make your coach even better.
Vivian, you bought a great coach at a great price.
Insurance
I have referred many clients to Thum Insurance (406)327-0401. Ask for Melissa and tell her that Steve from PrevostTrader referred you.
They understand Prevost coaches, know what coverage you need, are nice to deal with, and will give you a good rate
Sales Tax
I suggest you call the Heggen Law Office (406)327-0401. Tell them you are buying a Prevost and would like to set up an LLC. Tell them you were referred by Steve from PrevostTrader. They do it all the time, will help you get it registered, are nice to deal with, and they are experts at it.
Delivery
I need to know when you are planning to pick up the coach. Prior to that day I will send wiring instructions to the seller, for the balance.
Directions
You will be going to 139 Old Trail Rd, Duncannon, PA 17069. Mapquest says it’s 184 miles, and will take 3 hours and 12 minutes.
Yes, it’s really true. Call me with any questions.
Steve Katz
PrevostTrader


#2.
Decline of purchase of 1993 Prevost Liberty Elegant Lady

Evening Steven Katz,

I am rescinding my offer to purchase the 1993 Prevost Liberty Elegant Lady Bus Conversion you advertised on your Website...Prevost Trader...based on complications in the transaction...whereas I was not given the opportunity to see and drive this coach after my PNC Bank Wired you my deposit yesterday afternoon...

Very respectfully I decline the offer to purchase this coach...
Thanking you in advance for the return of my deposit...

I remain yours truly.........
Vivian A. McGraw
Vivian McGraw
836 Maple Ave.
Brick, NJ
08724
732-458-3480
732-779-1227





Viv gave me permission to post and share with you the details today.



Steve Katz
e-mail
PrevostTrader@comcast.net
phone
(239) 229-8207

[Tully]

What a mess. I have done business in the past without an actual signed contract. To say the least, always ended up being a problem or situation gone bad.

I would make one final demand. No game playing. State that if funds are not returned the States Attorney will be contacted for help in bringing proper closure. Be done with it and do just that.

I bought a 1974 Plymouth Cuda off Ebay. Car was a mess and not as described. Even with their " protection program" I ended up being on the loosing end with a rusted and patched up Cuda. My attorney sent
demands letter and nothing. I do not know who this Steve is but once money is wired it can become almost impossible to get it back. Give him one chance and one chance only to get you $ back.

100% percent of my deals are now in person, face to face and eye to eye.

Best of luck on this one.

Tully Lee Garrett

[phorner]

Tully,

That's probably good advice. Once the money is gone, it can be a real hassle getting it back.

By the way, my last E-body was a '70 Challenger RT/SE....and a big block to boot...!

[Will Garner]

Tully & Paul,

I had a new 1968 Road Runner, a used 1966 Dodge Town Wagon (that I did an engine swap for a 392 Hemi), and a 1958 Plymouth Belvedere (that I did an engine swap for a BUILT 354 Hemi). I bought the 1966 Dodge with 42,000 miles on the odo from the State of NC as surplus equipment for $500 big ones. I drove it to 92,000 before it developed a flat miss - in the engine! Swapped the old 318 and plugged in the 392 over a weekend. Drove it to 142,000 and sold it for $500. Most fun vehicle I ever owned.

Yes, my toad has a Hemi too!

Ah those were truly the good old days.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I'm confused. Did or did not Steve Katz provide instructions to the location of the bus, and if so was the bus there or not.

I think whether a refund is due hinges on whether the bus was there and available to inspect and drive.

Also absent is any indication of whether the money in question was a refundible down payment subject to inspection of the bus. If earnest money is sent there is usually a meeting of the minds with respect to whether it is a show of good faith and is refundible, or if it is non-refundible because the bus is being taken off the market and thus other potential sales are lost.

Please clear that issue up.

[Tully]

Off topic and I promise I will stop. Im a huge Mopar fan. Pride and joy is my 1972 Plymouth RoadRunner 340 six pack set up. Oh yea, huge Prevost fan too. Almost over-looked JOE C., did wonderful job on my coach suspension. Can't overlook that.

Thats all on the "off topc",,, sorry.

Tully

[Journeyone144]

but he did sent a receipt saying I had bought the bus...that my Bank made me sign before they would send the 5,000...so I could see the bus...

Hi John,

When I first found the bus on Steve Katz's Prevost Trader Website the price was and still is shown there for 150K...I told him I could not go that high but I would like to see the bus in case it was reduced...He said I couldn't see it at all with out an offer...so I asked Steve if he could offer the Owners 135K as that was as high as I dared to go...He replied that he could not offer the owners less than 140K...I said okay but if he could later change and offer my I35K would he try and he said yes...then some time after that I forget how many days or weeks it may have been...he called me on Friday the 5th of Dec..and told me he had offered the 135 and it had been accepted..so now I could go see the bus as soon as I sent him 5,000.00..so I agreed to have the money wired but he knew the only reason I would send him 5,000.00 was to see the bus not buy it without seeing it..but instead he did sent a receipt for my 5,000.00 as a deposit...which would have been fine if he had either made an appointment with the owners and me to see and drive and check out the bus..and if it was found to be all the Website porclaimed I would have wanted to buy it..and there would have been no problem at all..

.but he would not make an appt.. or even after receiving my money give me the Name and Phone number to contact them myself...he did sent me an address ...at 139 Old Trail RD in Duncannon, Pa..with Map Quest directions to that address...but no appt. or communication with anyone to be sure someone would meet me somewhere..

I had an overnight case packed by 9:00 AM the following day..Saturday the 6th of Dec..

I talked to Steve Katz several times that day and the most I could information I could get from him about contact with the owners remained the same..except that he sent me a Congratulatory E-Mail for buying the bus...telling me as soon as I had Insurance in place and the balance read to be transferred I could go there and drive the bus HOME...!!!! Never never would you or I do make such an agreement...with out first seeing, driving and checking that the bus was all it was proposed to be..."Perfect" was what he said to me...

I still do not have a Name or Phone number for the Owners..and the address that Steve gave me didn't look proper to me...because Map Quest could not use the zip code he used for the Map Quest request...I printed a route out but it did not take me to the exact address Steve said it would so I was afraid to travel all the way to Pa..180 miles not knowing for sure where I was going...nor having anyone to contact before I left much less when I would get there...

Steve knows the sole reason I sent him any money was to see, drive and check the bus out to be all his website said it was...

Hugs Always Viv...
************************************************** ***


I'm confused. Did or did not Steve Katz provide instructions to the location of the bus, and if so was the bus there or not.

I think whether a refund is due hinges on whether the bus was there and available to inspect and drive.

Also absent is any indication of whether the money in question was a refundible down payment subject to inspection of the bus. If earnest money is sent there is usually a meeting of the minds with respect to whether it is a show of good faith and is refundible, or if it is non-refundible because the bus is being taken off the market and thus other potential sales are lost.

Please clear that issue up.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Signing a bill of sale could be trouble IMO

What the hell was your banker thinking when he allowed you to do that?

[truk4u]

Viv,

Spend a few bucks and discuss this with an Attorney based in Ft. Myers, FL, where it seems this guy is based. Whether you have a case or not, a local Attorney can advise you accordingly. If you need a referral, there are plenty of members living in Florida that can probably help get you a name and number through their own Legal contacts.

[garyde]

How I read it:
Steve was not going to move forward without a commitment to purchase. That is what he consistently told Viv she was doing.
He was probably leary of Viv and took this strategy. Viv backed out as he probably surmised would happen. His failure to allow her to see the Coach w/o securing insurance is the sticking point.
Since the Coach is not on a lot, and she never had a scheduled appointment with the owner, his claim of being open and honest is disingenuous . He is attempting to make it look like it is all Viv's failure to complete the transaction.
Viv's problem is she did engage in a verbal purchase agreement, and then had doubts about the person / bus/ transaction and backed out. She may have thought this was a 'show me first' agreement, but there is nothing to prove this.
Steve's problem is, he is not the owner, and has no legitimate reason nor written contract stating the funds are not refundable.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I do not know Steve Katz. I do not know if he knows me or of me from reading these sites.

However, I sent him an email expressing interest in the Liberty and asking where and if I could see the bus. I got an instant response with no request for money.

My opinion on this right now is Viv wanted this bus. She has a down payment on this bus. If she wants to go look at it or inspect it, it is available. If she chooses to not look at it or does not want it the disposition of the $5,000 now seems to be an issue between Steve Katz and her. I don't sense that there is any resistance to seeing the bus, and in fact if the $5000 is not going to be returned and the bus really is what Viv wants it makes no sense to not go see the bus because this really may be the bus of her dreams. Otherwise there is a risk she truly is walking away from $5000.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

If Viv said, I like the pictures of the bus and will buy it if I still like it after I see it and drive it, then the ball is in her court to complete the verbal contract. That is to go see the bus inspect it and drive it and fulfill her end if the agreement.
I think Mr. Kats is playing hard ball and making Viv go to the bus thereby showing good faith in her sincerity to buy the bus and not just calling around and making offers that she has no intention of following through with.
Viv asking for a refund would be more justified if she completed her part of the agreement.
The way it is now she asked for a return of the money because she changed her mind for some other reason than examining the bus and driving it.

Because Mr. Kats referenced other dealers/sellers concerns over prior dealings with Viv, he appears to be saying put your money where your mouth is, and s... or get off the pot.

Not taking sides here or judging anyone, just expressing how I interpret the situation.

:)JIM

[Will Garner]

I've just been on the BCM forum and loo and behold there was a post about the bus Viv found on eBay. The following information was copied from that post. The post was on rust issues with Prevost XL's. Sounds like it might have some mechanics liens on it too.


blue_goose
Jr. Member

Offline

Posts: 72



Re: Prevost XL rust issues
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2008, 05:05:16 AM » Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I drove this coach over 10,000 miles before the new engine was installed. This is a lot of coach for the money. If you got the shell free you couldn't do the inside for what John wants for the coach. This coach ran under DOT and had to be ready to leave and go anywhere at any time. It is probably in better shape than most of ours.
The pictures were just taken, but don't show some of the things the coach needs. Most of what it needs is just TLC. TLC doesn't cost a lot just takes time.
The engine was a out of frame rebuild by a good CO. and is running clean. I looked at it last week and there are no oil leaks.
You could get in and go now without doing anything but fueling.
I have no connections to this bus. John is a friend and I have driven the bus, but this info is just to try and give you some info from a fellow busnut.
Jack

Busted Knuckle
Hero Member

Offline

Posts: 2743


Re: Prevost XL rust issues
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2008, 08:45:13 PM » Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: gyrocrasher
"On another note, there is a 1990 Country Coach version on eBay right now with a buy it now price of $49K"


Wow. There's one that has been used. My calculator says over 7K miles a month. I notice they don't give
the total mileage.
Also they seem to believe that 8V92T runs on gasoline!
Here's the link.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1990-PREVOST-COUNTRY-COACH-MOTORHOME_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ50056QQihZ004 QQitemZ140287785358QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW


Well, well, well!
I know that coach! Cody does too! As a matter of fact I still have an unpaid invoice laying here beside me on my desk! For service done to it here at my shop. I don't know any John Silver, but it was indeed used as a medical transport bus by a guy named Dick White of Sunnyvale Enterprises of Sebring, FL.
It's not a bad running coach, but it does have lost of flaky rust everywhere underneath it! And as said it needs MUCH TLC.
Also I don't if they got the inside repaired or not. One of the drivers they fired got doped up and came out here to our shop while it was here and trashed the interior, then laid down in it and went to sleep! I had come in EARLY in the AM and had gone to bed, and sometime between then and when dad came home in the early afternoon Marcus came up and decided to "trash & crash". The only reason we new he was here was he was running the generator for A/C. Dad came up to the house and asked me why the generator was running on the "medical bus"? (as we called it) I had NO IDEA what he was talking about & it was the same week end that the landlord sunk his firebird in the pond! So my first thought was the drunk landlord had been down there fooling with it and tried to start it to drive it, but was unable to figure it out and started the genny by mistake. But as it turns out it was their ex driver Marcus curled up on the couch. I tried to open it and go in to shut off the genny, but the door was locked. So I pounded & pounded on the door until a still dopey Marcus opened the door. He said he needed to borrow my phone to call Don (Dick's right hand man up here). So I dialed the # and handed the phone to Marcus. Well when Don didn't answer and he left a voice msg. dad told him they had told us "they didn't want him around the coach anymore and he'd have to leave". So he grabbed his duffle bag, walked around the outside and shut the genny off and started out down the drive on foot. Dad opened the door and saw the door key was not on the dash where they left it. So he called Marcus back and asked where it was, he told dad "I thought I put it back"! Dad said "no I just checked" So he pulled it out of his pocket and handed it to dad and left.
After he'd been gone awhile and dad and I were headed to the house I decided I'd better turn the A/C units off so that something didn't blow when the genny was restarted! As I stepped up in the bus I found broken glass everywhere, some broken wood from cabinets, and liquid poured everywhere from the middle back! The ceiling fan it the bedroom had been destroyed, mirrors broken, blue liquid everywhere, stuff tore off the walls, just trashed!
I ran and told dad he needed to look at it, and called the sheriffs dept. And they sent an officer out and he took a report and used my cell phone to call Mr. White. Once that was done Mr. White thanked me for calling the law & him and told me Don would be by to see the damage and we'd go from there.
Well Don came out and talked to dad several days later while I was gone, looked over the coach and found even more damage than I had. He had the sheriff come back and take an updated report and more pictures. Then they wanted us to give them an estimate for the insurance company. We couldn't do that as we are mechanics and not conversion specialists. So they asked us to fix a couple things it needed and service it and they would pick it up and take it back to FL to get the estimate. That is the last we saw or heard from it or them! FWIW BK

[0533]

Thanks for all the comments and insight on how to proceed.

There are several good lessons here for all of us, and especially for Viv.

I think based on what I have read, what I have seen for documents (Wire Transfer) that Viv has but one choice at this point.

I have suggested she send one more email and a registered demand letter specifically outlining her request for the return of her $5,000 deposit, her withdrawal to purchase, and a set time line for return of funds and finally a clear indication she will retain council, and file suit asking for the $5,000, interest, attorney's fees, court costs etc. Once this has been received and if nothing comes from it she will need to secure an attorney in Florida to address the suit.

I do feel that there is still something very wrong with the transaction. I have never offered to purchase a vehicle from anyone without knowing how to make contact with whomever is in control of the vehicle so that I can make arrangements to see it. The mere fact that Steve is unwilling to connect Viv with a name, provide a phone number or offer to allow her to inspect the bus makes me suspicious indeed. And if Will's post is referring to the same bus there might well be a good reason why Steve Katz has not been forth coming about the owners contact info.

Jon suggests that he was able to make contact with Steve and get info on the bus, Jon can you gain access to the owner through Steve so that Viv can see the bus. Maybe we can find a member near 139 Old Trail Rd in Duncannon Pa which is very near Harrisburg Pa about 10 miles north of rt. 81 who could Eyeball the bus and let Viv know the outcome.

Viv lives in Nj. which is not too far from this location. It might be worth a visit to see the bus and make sure it even exists. My guess if Will's info is correct that the bus is not in the same condition as the pictures represent it to be and maybe by taking a look see Viv can officially respond, there is some risk involved with this approach, but it will require that Steve at least give her a contact name, phone number so Viv can set a time and place for a meeting.

There is no language in the Wire Transfer document that sets a date for closing, for the remaining $125,000. there is no language that says she cannot not view the bus before completion of the sale, that Viv cannot withdraw from the purchase, that she is required to have insurance or that she must pay the remainder in full or over 20 years, or that it refers to any legal language to support his retention of her deposit. The laws of Florida provides a seller who does not want to complete the transaction some latitude. I think she could actually make a case that Steve is libel for damages for not providing her access to the seller at this point and should not be offering the bus for sale to others while there is cloud over the transaction.

If Steve does not do this then there is surely something wrong here, also Steve needs to supply Viv with a contract for sale between the parties, especially the party who is actually selling it, Steve is not the owner to the best of my knowledge and therefore cannot declare that she has made a purchase and if she asks for her money back declare her in default. I really think she has a case here but it will take time. The wire transfer does create some grey areas but the transaction as a whole looks fishy and the courts will be able to see through this, unfortunately Florida is a magnet for this type of stuff.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Wills info is on that 40ft XL CC that is listed for 49k down in Florida.

That vandelizm that was done was repaired to some degree cause the guy I know who looked at it would have for sure said something. I also noticed that bus is listed on heartland coach and the photos difference in condition looking at the photos on Prevo Trader is obvious.

[Tully]

I run to the computer every day now for my dose on this story. It just gets crazier by the day.

I guess every coach has a story or history.

Tully

[Journeyone144]

************************************************** ******


He's not going to try to cheat you Jon...You are a man of consequence...
************************************************** ****
Hi Jon,

Did Steve give you a place to go to see the bus..and the name of someone to meet you there..!!!!

If so why didn't he tell me to go see it..??..and meet someone there instead of demanding I get Ins. and Pay in full for the bus then "Drive it Home"...as his way of allowing me to see it...!!! Unbelievable...

If so and I find out where it is and who to see to gain entrance to the bus, drive it, and have it checked over I would still go immediately...!!!! and now also try to get Joe C. to meet me there...to check the things I don't understand but he would...I only want to make sure it's laid out the way he said it is, and the pictures show...drives right to me...and as he said is in good condition..."Perfect were his words to me"...

Mention was made of my communication with other dealers...I would like to know what was said about me so I would have the the opportunity to refute if untrue and defend myself...

I have been asked for deposits to see a Prevost before but never made any because I wanted to see a bus FIRST...I was so sure of this one I made the deposit...but 9 years ago I had legally signed papers and agreed to buy a bus in Houston Tx.. www.motorhomesusa.com I made a deposit of 30K on a 65K Diesel Bus..to pay cash for and flew out there to buy it..It was obvious the pictures on his website were taken when the bus was NEW...what I found was a pigsty...that was top heavy when it went around bends..I refused to buy it...and in the end was literally forced to lose 30K or buy a diff. bus from that dealer...Against my will I chose an 87 Fleetwood Limited...my deposit was full price for it and I drove it home..

I have missed one other Prevost bus I'm almost Positive I would have purchased if I had seen it...thru' chat with another dealer...One Rod Daniels of Heartland Coach in Fl. also...who also went way out of his way to get money from me before letting me see the busses in question...I never sent him any money...but I was ready to when my Bank first approved the Home Equity Loan I had been seeking but the morning I told Rod Daniels the loan had been approved he sent me a message back saying the bus had been sold thru' another dealer..!!! This is that bus...>>>and the the Letter I sent to my bank so they'd know why I wouldn't be wiring the deposit...>>>>>
************************************************** ***
{{{{{{{ Original Message -----
From: Vivian A. McGraw
To: Melissahill65@hotmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 11:19 AM
Subject: I lost the one in Al. Rod Daniels didn't have the heart to call me back.

Hello Melissa,
I just called Rod at Heartland about the below coach I've been negotiating to buy for months..
http://www.heartlandbus.com/VehicleDetail.cfm?StockNo=1470
He told me the other person got it and he didn't have the heart to call me and tell me...after I'd waited for his call back for over an hour this morning sitting on the edge of my chair...
So if I'm to realize my dream I must start all over again...I just can't give up...

Blessing's and Warm Hugs Always Viv...}}}}}
************************************************** ******
That should give you all a little idea of what's been happening with my search..
I feel like I've been on a roller coaster ride with these dealers trying to sell me a bus..making me all the more wary of any purchase from any dealer...They all know each other...and work together...and have mentioned each other in their e-mails to me...I have one e-mail that made me more afraid than any of all the others combined..and I have saved them all in a folder on my Outlook Express...Would you like to see them..??

I'm almost terrified to buy... That's why I brought so many question here to the list where I know you and many others really know Prevosts...I've purchased about 15 RV's in my lifetime and I tell you I have never had so much trouble finding the one I've been looking for for over 3 solid years..because of Prevost's huge cost...for a much older one I will surely have to pay more than twice what I've paid for any other coach...if indeed I can ever find one I can afford...at all...and if I could lease one I would do it..in a heartbeat...

I have no bills..!!! I own everything I have outright..and I would have to sell my house to get out from under this debt if I make it because I would have to use the Equity loan to produce more than 100K of my own money...and I'm trying to be all the more sure I get the right bus before I do that...especially after all the warnings I've received here on POG...
Everyone knows I'm all alone in making this final decision...

I despise this dealer Steve Katz for his trickery ...and I'm darned scared he might be hoodwinking me...by not allowing me to see it..prior to paying for it ...I'd much rather lose 5K than 135K...and I willl if I have to if I don't get to see the bus First...

I don't want to go to a lawyer but I may if everyone believes I could get the deposit back if I don't get to see the bus First...but I can't get an appt. for that even now...!!!!

I have too much stress I'm dealing with right this minute with out legal proceedings on top of it...This all started one week ago yesterday...I should have seen and made my decision about this bus last Saturday or Sunday at the latest..maybe Monday the 7th if there might have been no one available to show it to me on the weekend...I was available..

I can't believe what it's all turned into...but I know for sure I've made the last deposit on any bus without seeing it first that I will ever make...

Hugs Always Viv
************************************************** **

[QUOTE=Jon Wehrenberg;39411]I do not know Steve Katz. I do not know if he knows me or of me from reading these sites.

However, I sent him an email expressing interest in the Liberty and asking where and if I could see the bus. I got an instant response with no request for money.

My opinion on this right now is Viv wanted this bus. She has a down payment on this bus. If she wants to go look at it or inspect it, it is available. If she chooses to not look at it or does not want it the disposition of the $5,000 now seems to be an issue between Steve Katz and her. I don't sense that there is any resistance to seeing the bus, and in fact if the $5000 is not going to be returned and the bus really is what Viv wants it makes no sense to not go see the bus because this really may be the bus of her dreams. Otherwise there is a risk she truly is walking away from $5000.

[Journeyone144]

;39423]Thanks for all the comments and insight on how to proceed.

[QUOTE=0533I have suggested she send one more email and a registered demand letter specifically outlining her request for the return of her $5,000 deposit, her withdrawal to purchase, and a set time line for return of funds and finally a clear indication she will retain council, .[/un-QUOTE] Bruce..
Hi Bruce, All,
I just read your entire post and I will consider it ...I dread involving an attorney...so before I even think about that I have just a new e-mail to Steve Katz of Prevost Trader about the Bus..
Below is a copy of the message:
I'm showing it to all here to prove my own good faith despite the treatment I've received from Steve Katz..>>> and my strong fear of trickery on his part...but if it IS all he has purported it to be on his Website and to me on the Phone I will buy the bus...!!!

http://www.prevosttrader.com/index.php?v=8&iview=27

I cannot thank all of you enough for your great concern and help...I hope I get to meet every one of you in person...I can't find words to express how grateful I am...
Maybe I won't be cheated this time...like so many times before since I've been alone...
The Very Warmest of Hugs Always Viv MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU ALL...
************************************************** *****
----- Original Message -----
From: Vivian A. McGraw
To: Steve Katz
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:37 AM
Subject: Making a last effort to get to...See, Drive, and Inspect..The Bus in Duncannon, Pa...

Dear Steve Katz,

This message is to inform you that I would still go to Duncannon,Pa. to see, drive and inspect the 1993 Prevost Elegant Liberty Lady that I have had my PNC Bank wire you $5,000.00 for that purpose, prior, to my purchasing this bus...

I still need the name and appointment with someone to meet me at the bus location and allow me to perform this process...See, Drive, and Inspect...

Thank you

Vivian A. McGraw

[0533]

Hello Viv,

The text that I gave you earlier with a formal demand, time frame to act and a statement of what happens if he does not comply must be sent both via email and via "certified letter" do not add a bunch of additional language about the relationship just the the facts as i stated earlier:

I have suggested she send one more email and a registered demand letter specifically outlining your request for the return of your $5,000 deposit, your withdrawal to purchase, and a set time line for return of funds and finally a clear indication you will retain council if he does not comply, and file suit asking for the $5,000, interest, attorney's fees, court costs etc. Once this has been received and if nothing comes from it you will need to secure an attorney in Florida to address the suit.

[Will Garner]

Joe C,

You are correct sir. This post started with the eBay find. By the way it looks like someone has placed a bid of $40,400 on it. I posted what I found and should have been more specific as to it NOT being the coach this discussion thread has morphed into. I wanted Vivian to see what someone thats knows the coach has to say about it. A picture is sometimes worth a thousand words but it can also be worthless if the photo does not represent the current state of the subject.

Again, go forth and look at any prospective coach. It is the only way to assess its value to you and its real time condition.

Are we approaching the all time thread length record yet? If not we should try harded with this one we must be close.

[Darl-Wilson]

I was a former RV dealer in Oregon and have sold motor vehicles in Oregon, Washington, California, and Nevada. In ALL these states, at the time I worked there, a deal was never consummated until the "Tail Lights were down the road".
We could not keep any part of a deposit or a trade until the customer signed all of the documentation and a 'DRS' (Dealer Report of Sale) along with a temporary license was issued. I have never seen a licensed dealer that would try to hold the customers feet to the fire if they did not accept delivery. Having explained the above this may not be the law in Pennsylvania or Florida or any other state where this may have occurred. My pal Fast Roger may be more familiar with the laws on the east coast and will help us out here.

I think the lawyers out there will agree that there are 3 basic requirements for a legal contract. They are Offer, Acceptance, and Consideration. In all the cases reported by Viv did she accept the vehicle. She did make an offer, it was accepted and she provided Consideration (Money) but if they laws are the same in the east she never took delivery of the vehicle(s).

So, instead of getting involved with an expensive attorney simply report this to a governing authority of the state where this transaction occurred. If Steve Katz is a dealer then he is subject to a law requiring him to refund Viv's deposit. If he is not a dealer then he is doing business without a license and may be subject to civil and criminal charges. I think Viv stated her age at one time (over 60) which may make the offender(s) subject to double or triple penalties for a crime against the elderly. Again this depends on the state law. There is another factor here and that is this was done interstate and by phone/computer which could make it a federal crime.

I will be happy to research this and get the names and phone numbers of the appropriate regulators. In my current business (Finance and Mortgage) I have helped lots of clients solve similar problems. I think most of us want to get even and get an attorney to go after the scoundrels but this is much easier route and does not cost anything but a few phone calls. It is usually more successful.

Darl

[Ray Davis]

I think there's a major difference here. If I read it right, Steve Katz is not a dealer. He's a guy with a website, that does advertising, a middle-man if you will.. Ultimately the sale is a private transaction between seller and buyer, in which Steve is paid some $5000 (or more?) for the advertising on his website, and handling inquiries.

I know in the sale of my first CC coach by Steve Bennett, Steve took several deposits, and several buyers put in a deposit, and some never even took the time to come down and see the bus. IN several cases, after a period of a couple of weeks, we'd refund the deposit, and start the whole sale process over again.

In no case, did we ever keep a deposit, and Steve told me that really he couldn't keep the deposit.

Ray

[Darl-Wilson]

If Steve Katz does not have a license then he CANNOT take deposits or act in any part of the sale. Period. If you do consignments you must have a license. If you simply take someone on a tour of the bus you are probably safe but the 1st time you mention money or even act as an intermediary you are an unlicensed salesperson.

You can bet our pal Steve Bennett is fully licensed and complies with the law.

Advertising an item on the internet for someone does not require a license.

Some licensed dealers "curbstone" vehicles by selling them off-site as private parties. This is illegal in most states including Florida.

Simply, if Steve Katz or anyone is doing the things Viv describes and is not fully licensed in the states where they are selling they are violating the law and should be reported.

[Journeyone144]

Evening All,

I have received a reply from Steve Katz of Prevost Trader, Fl..and am posting a copy of same and my reply...
Looks Like I'm at last going to get to See, Drive, and Inspect the 93 Prevost Elegant Liberty Lady Bus in Duncannon, Pa...on Monday the 15th of Dec. 08..

Many Thanks for all your troubles and help in my behalf...!~!!~!
Hugs Always Viv
************************************************** *****
----- Original Message -----
From: Vivian A. McGraw
To: PrevostTrader
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 8:50 PM
Subject: Re: Making a last effort to get to...See, Drive, and Inspect..The Bus in Duncannon, Pa...
PREVOST TRADER

Dear Steve Katz,

Monday will be fine...with my leaving NJ at 9: 00 A.M. the 15th of Dec. 08...
I am now waiting for your reply with the exact address of where the bus is located and the number you want me to call when I arrive there...so you can call..."MAX"... and inform this person of my arrival...wherever I find a phone to call you...
My own cell phone is out of order permanently and I doubt the new one being shipped to me from AT&T will have been delivered to me by then...but just in case it is ...my number on Cell is 732-779-1227...if need be...In any event I will have your office number with me...

Now I just need a proper address and correct zip code...the previous one you sent me was not valid according to Map Quest...Map Quest changed that zip code to an offer of 17020-7120 as being the closest they could use...

Maybe you should also have a look at where www.zillow.com using the zip code you gave me places the address you gave me previously...for
139 Old Trail Rd. Duncannon, Pa. 17069 ...where the zip code you gave me did give me an exact address in a very sparsely populated area...

I was very apprehensive of going there alone with No Name or Phone Number...another reason I was hesitant to go there last Saturday...if it had been more populated I would have felt better about it...and if the zip codes had agreed I would have trusted the directions more as well...

So please be very exact about the address...

Thank You
Vivian A. McGraw
************************************************** ******
----- Original Message -----
From: PrevostTrader
To: Vivian A. McGraw
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: Request Return of 5,000.00 Wire from PNC Bank to Sun Trust Bank 12-5-08

You are scheduled to see the bus on Monday. Please let me know if that is ok, and I will get the exact address where the bus is located. You can get directions from Mapquest to avoid the possibility of getting lost. When you arrive please call me and I will let Max know you are there.
************************************************** *****

[rfoster]

Darl et al, I am familiar with Tenn Law and that is enough for me to deal with, so I am no expert on Florida or New Jersey law. Sounds to me that this Katz guy has gotten his panties in a wad over this lady cause she has spun his wheels before. That is no excuse for this type of behavior. If he is a licensed dealer that is interested in a happy customer - a letter to the Better Business Bureau in his area should get his attention and the proper & correct response - a refund.

In Tenn and I would assume in Florida as Darl stated he would be required to have a "Salesman License".

But it sounds like he may be a consignment shop. No investment, no equity, no inventory, so nothing to loose and everything to gain. A letter to the department of License and Commerce in Florida should be in order. I am not familiar with Florida laws, but I do believe they are very much on the side of the consumer vs the reseller. I have seen 10 times a many Florida cars at auction due to Lemon buyback vs any other state here in the east and that tells me Florida law favors the consumer.

This is very disappointing that folks that should know how to conduct business get themselves in this kind of mess. It is as simple as proper communication between buyer and seller. I would avoid any middle men in the future and deal directly with the seller be it a properly licensed dealer or individual. No bucks up front and only after the deal has been struck and delivery is imminent.

I don't know this guy but it sounds to me as an outsider looking in that he has the potential to take the money and run. I hope not for this Ladys' sake, plus If you are going to rob somebody - Brinks or Congress would probably be the best bet for a big haul.

Bottom line I recommend doing business with a licensed dealer, at least in this state the dealer is required to post a $50,000 bond to the state prior to obtaining a license to help handle sour deals such as this. The state licensing Department under Commerce and Insurance handles it and God only knows how long it would take to resolve this thru a goverment official.

If these actions don't get results, and not knowing what else Darl may recommend, and all else fails I recommend you follow Bruces directions. Do it quick- no procrastination, no grace period.-

Sometimes Attorneys are necessary, but they are not cheap. That 5 grand will evaporate very quickly with an attorney involved.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I am very concerned that while Viv will be looking at the colors of the tile and the layout of the bus she will not be inspecting the very things that will turn her purchase into a nightmare.

Buying a bus is not about the colors or how much tread is on the tires, but is about how everything works, the quality of the past maintenance, the quality of the care it has received, and verifying nothing expensive needs to be repaired. What are the date codes on the tires and batteries?

Will she insure the generator works, the AC systems work, the Webasto works, the inverters are functioning as they are supposed to, there are no hub seal leaks, the bus doesn't have the leans, the engine starts properly and does not overheat, the transmission shifts properly, there are no DDEC or ATEC issues, etc, etc?

Within 5 minutes of looking at a coach we can tell just by date codes if the bus will need $7500 worth of batteries or tires right away.

With a little more time and effort we can verify the major systems function.

With a short look underneath we can verify if the brakes are OK, if the air bags have dry rot, or if any hub seals leak.

And all of that is before it is even started up or driven.

[Darl-Wilson]

Now Viv is going alone into an area that is"sparsely populated" and not even on the map to meet a "Max" that does not have a phone number for her to call. Steve is going to call "Max" to tell him Viv is in the area. She is going with an inoperative cell phone. Does any of this sound logical? All of this is done at the direction of a guy that has supposedly ripped her off for 5 big, The great suggestions that Jon and Roger posted may be in vain if she encounters more than she has bargained for. At the very least she needs to be accompanied by someone that could protect her if trouble arose.

Roger, I forgot about the BBB in my previous post. You are right about them. I recovered almost 10k from the Yellow Pages for a mistake they made on my company advertising by using the local Bureau.

I found a bit more about Steve Katz. I appears that he was a dentist from New York and was also an RV Dealer. The folks on this website note that they help sell RVs in any state but their site does not have license numbers posted. As Roger and I wrote, these folks need to be licensed in any state where they conduct sales activity. This is also going to require a bond to protect folks like Viv. It looks like SK is just a salesperson for this company.

This is probably my final word on this subject. Viv, stay away from this deal until you can answer the questions poised by Jon, Roger, and the other good POG members. They is just too much hair on this piece of candy!

Darl

[Coloradobus]

Sure wish Chris and I were visiting my mother in NE Ohio, we would head to Duncannon, Pa immediately. BUt we aren't in OHIO now. Both our mothers are over sixty. We wouldn't allow them to go into negotiations in a "sparsely populated" anything.

Viv, please do what everyone here has said, most recently Darl-Wilson. The candy is "hairy", it exceeds the 5 second rule.
don't pick it off the floor. If yo must, take a male friend or several lady friends with you. All the "hugs and Kisses" can't make a bad situation get better. This Steve Katz thing wreaks.!!! Please, come Monday, stay away from Pennsylvania.

[Pete]

Do we not have a member of POG in the general area that can help Viv look at this coach? If the bus is not satisfactory to one of our members, at least it may be reasonable for this guy to refund her $$$$$, and if not, we should all do the best we can to see that this guy NEVER sells a coach to any one within the reach of this group. There is no excuse for this kind of BS if this guy is even implying that he is reputable.

[0533]

I have suggested to Viv to send along her Registered letter of withdrawal, she has the exact text via email now.

The bigger questions are 2 fold. Does Viv really want to purchase a bus, can she drive one can she afford the purchase price and the upgrade and service expense, not to speak of the expenses related to storage travel etc. This is not a purchase for the faint at heart.

2nd: If the answer to is that Viv still wants a bus she might be able to kill 2 birds with a visit to See the bus. Max is the owner of the home (i checked this out) and I suspect the bus. He may be completely unaware of Steve Katz's handling of Viv. If Viv can have someone on hand who knows buses and can give her the underneath, behind the floorboards perspective it might be possible to find out if this bus is right.

If it is not, my guess is that Max would not want to hold up Viv or place his bus in a legal battle. If she does not want the bus she should tell Max and ask Max to tell Steve Katz to refund her money.

This might be the fastest way to the end game.

On the other hand if Viv goes alone without any advice she might make a very bad (I really want a Bus decision) move and fall in love with the whole notion. Who knows maybe Max is single and Viv and he hit it off. Remember it is Christmas and miracles can happen.

[Coloradobus]

Viv,

I PM'd you about this coach.http://staleycoach.com/48793%20-%2094%20MARATHON.htm

[Journeyone144]

Oh My Gosh,

OOOhhhhh....I don't know what to say to such caring and concern !!!! It's never happened to me before...I'm overwhelmed !!!

Yes I do want to buy my own diesel bus with all my heart...It may have looked like I wasn't serious to dealers but that was only because I was being soooooooooo careful not to make a mistake...a bad buy...

I want to drive a real bus again...I do want to see the bus... and I do want to do everything right...and it is a huge move on my part, no one knows this better than me..

After reading these last few posts and the e-mail I woke up to from Jon this morning I won't go to Duncannon alone...

Steve Katz hasn't sent me the directions he said he would in his e-mail to me yesterday, Saturday and it is now after 1:00 PM Sunday...

Gosh...I'm packed for a few days stay in Pa...If Steve had sent the directions earlier I was going to go up there TODAY...so I could find a motel, and look for a mechanic, and I was considering going to the local police to see if an officer could be sent with me rather than go all alone to meet with "Max"...

He could even be a real nice person who might be known in the area..I hate to think the worst of anyone or anything until I'm sure..That's why I would have gone the day early since I had the time...but it's obvious I can't depend on what Steve Katz has told me..

I'd have to see and drive the bus and have a mechanic check it over before I would ever buy it..!!!!!!!!

Oh ... Yes I can drive...drove for Greyhound...but it was a few years ago...

Money will be tight for me after paying 135K for a bus because 40K of it will have to come from my Approved Line of Credit on my house...but I will be putting my house on the market immediately after I buy the bus...I hate bills...Soon as it sells I would pay off my debt and I have plans to buy a mobile home in Fl. for my home base...I've always needed roots to come back to...

I don't need or want this 9 room house anymore...been here 40 plus years...It's worth 300K plus...and I'd maybe even look for a better bus then...but not if I loved the first one...I've only traded up to get more convenience and a little bigger...I have my Dolphin 7 yrs..and will keep it if I can't find the bus with my name on it...

Sure would be wonderful if you were right about Max...lol...

Quote>>> Remember it is Christmas and miracles can happen. Unquote..
Hugs Always Viv Smile...;)





I have suggested to Viv to send along her Registered letter of withdrawal, she has the exact text via email now.

The bigger questions are 2 fold. Does Viv really want to purchase a bus, can she drive one can she afford the purchase price and the upgrade and service expense, not to speak of the expenses related to storage travel etc. This is not a purchase for the faint at heart.

2nd: If the answer to is that Viv still wants a bus she might be able to kill 2 birds with a visit to See the bus. Max is the owner of the home (i checked this out) and I suspect the bus. He may be completely unaware of Steve Katz's handling of Viv. If Viv can have someone on hand who knows buses and can give her the underneath, behind the floorboards perspective it might be possible to find out if this bus is right.

If it is not, my guess is that Max would not want to hold up Viv or place his bus in a legal battle. If she does not want the bus she should tell Max and ask Max to tell Steve Katz to refund her money.

This might be the fastest way to the end game.

On the other hand if Viv goes alone without any advice she might make a very bad (I really want a Bus decision) move and fall in love with the whole notion. Who knows maybe Max is single and Viv and he hit it off. Remember it is Christmas and miracles can happen.

[0533]

Viv, please make contact with "Jim" Colorado Bus, Jim is in Ohio I believe right now and may be able to meet you at the bus??? Viv's # 732-779-1227

Viv give Jim "Colorado Bus your phone # so he can make contact. I would also call Steve Katz Cell # (239) 229-8207 and tell him you are bringing a POG friend along to see the bus and meet Max, inspect the bus before making your final decision to purchase, need directions phone # for Max.

[Darl-Wilson]

Whew!!!!!!!

[Journeyone144]

Thank you Jim,

I've tried to stay in the 100K area...but couldn't find what I wanted so I really stretched my budget to go the 135K...taking 50K from my local Bank to do that...meaning payments until I can sell my house and I'll tell you now the 100K is coming from my cashed IRA and savings...and I sure don't want to go bigger than 40'...I want to be comfortable behind that wheel...and I wouldn't be in a 45 footer towing my toad...can't back up...unh uh...lol...

Hugs Always Viv...




Viv,

I PM'd you about this coach.http://staleycoach.com/48793%20-%2094%20MARATHON.htm

[0533]

Here is some feedback that I have been able to grab on to:

Max Naylor who is listed at the address Viv is supposed to go to below also is listed in New Buffalo Pa. max appears to be in the racing business, builds race cars races etc. his pictures and background all look good, especially if he really owns a 1993 Prevost H340. I bet it is his race Bus, could be good could be bad., but the man is for real, I do not seem to be able to get a number on him.

Max R Naylor
139 Old Trail Rd
Duncannon Pa 17020

48 Mill St
New Buffalo Pa 17069

NHRA Driver Mailbox: Pro Stock
Max Naylor 48 Mill Street New Buffalo, PA 17069. Website: www.naylorracing.com. David Nickens Nickens Brothers Racing Engines 200 Beach Aitport Road ...
www.nhra.com/drivers/mailbox/prostock.html - 8k - Cached - Similar pages -

http://blogs.nhra.com/nhrablogs.asp?blog=naylor

2008, JARMAX, LLC ...
File Format: Shockwave Flash
... A N O M O P Naylor is FUELED and Ready Max Naylor Powered by a New Fuel, VegasFuel. ... LLC JARMAX, LLC 48 Mill Street New Buffalo, Pennsylvania 17069 .

If any members are involved in the race business you might have heard of Max Naylor, any clues would be nice.

[Journeyone144]

OOOHHHH !!!!

This is my Cell Phone Number...and I don't have the new one yet...but my house number is... 732-458-3480...I gave POG my Cell number because I expected to be on the road and in Fl...for the winter...but I'm still home in NJ..

I hope he see's this because I don't have a phone number I could call him at...

Well...my Jack in the Box is still working...I'm up again....and it's only been minutes since I thought I wouldn't be going to Pa.....LOL...I'm sure glad I didn't touch my overnighter case...

Maybe some one can give Jim my house number...Please...

Hugs Always Viv...




Viv, please make contact with "Jim" Colorado Bus, Jim is in Ohio I believe right now and may be able to meet you at the bus??? Viv's # 732-779-1227

Viv give Jim "Colorado Bus your phone # so he can make contact. I would also call Steve Katz Cell # (239) 229-8207 and tell him you are bringing a POG friend along to see the bus and meet Max, inspect the bus before making your final decision to purchase, need directions phone # for Max.

[0533]

I have exhausted my leads at this point and have given you some incorrect advice as well Viv.

here we go:

Max R Naylor who was listed as the owner of 139 Old Trail rd Duncannon Pa where Steve Katz wanted you to go is also listed at Rd #4 Duncannon Pa Ph# 717-839- 4318 no answer.

Max Naylors rd#4 address cross references to the following:

Naylor Automotive
maps.google.com

10349 Winterstown Rd
Red Lion, PA 17356
(717) 246-1183
Get directions

I believe this Naylor to be the same and it does tie into the racing car theme etc.

here is the bottom line Viv, I was mistaken about Colorado Bus he is not in the area, and as such I strongly do not recommend that you drive to either location until we can determine where the bus is and if we can get someone who is qualified to meet you at the location, enough said. On Monday I will call the dealership and track down Max and his bus if there is one.

Lets put all on hold until we can source out Max, the bus and the deal speak with Max and see who is on first with the bus.

[Journeyone144]

What was that huge WHEW for Darl... I guess I'm naieve...
Hugs Viv...





Whew!!!!!!!

[Coloradobus]

0533,

Bruce, we AREN"T in Ohio now. My mother flew into Denver last night and she is here. Sorry for the misunderstanding. If we were there, then we could have helped.

[Journeyone144]

Hi Bruce,

No Problem whatever.!!!..I now see a Name and Phone number for the first time...You're amazing..~!!!. Pilot at 18 too...My goodness.!!.

Now you know what I saw on www.zillow.com when I put Max's house address...and now I can understand the address but I'd probably have a hard time finding it...if I had to go to the house..but it the business was on Rt. 11 & 15 which I think it might be...It might have been okay to find..

I'll wait and watch the List/Group...for Posts...or anyone can call me...
732-458-3480 I'll be right here...

Hugs Viv..



I have exhausted my leads at this point and have given you some incorrect advice as well Viv.

here we go:

Max R Naylor who was listed as the owner of 139 Old Trail rd Duncannon Pa where Steve Katz wanted you to go is also listed at Rd #4 Duncannon Pa Ph# 717-839- 4318 no answer.

Max Naylors rd#4 address cross references to the following:

Naylor Automotive
maps.google.com

10349 Winterstown Rd
Red Lion, PA 17356
(717) 246-1183
Get directions

I believe this Naylor to be the same and it does tie into the racing car theme etc.

here is the bottom line Viv, I was mistaken about Colorado Bus he is not in the area, and as such I strongly do not recommend that you drive to either location until we can determine where the bus is and if we can get someone who is qualified to meet you at the location, enough said. On Monday I will call the dealership and track down Max and his bus if there is one.

Lets put all on hold until we can source out Max, the bus and the deal speak with Max and see who is on first with the bus.

[Coloradobus]

Viv,

You said earlier you wanted to stay with a certain budget, This a good thinking. Remember, an asking price for a bus is the owner's "Wish Pice", and not the negotiated price that you might pay for the bus. Ex. Your prospective bus lists at $150,000. You may be able to get that price lower with some negotitation. Just a thought. If possible, try to never pay the owner's "Wish Price" advertized selling price.

[wrongagain]

I sent Viv a copy of the ad for my bus and she said she wasnt interested because she wanted a walk thru bath and a side mounted bed.
Maybe if I break out the chainsaw and crow bar I could make that happen for her, and still be, at or below the $100,000.00 she wanted to spend.

P.S. hi Viv, glad to see you didnt give up on buying a bus after all.
Good luck, and if you find one in the massachusetts area I know a good mechanic to check things out for you if you need one.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Viv, if you get your money back,here are two more to look at.

http://www.heartlandbus.com/VehicleDetail.cfm?StockNo=1439

http://www.heartlandbus.com/VehicleDetail.cfm?StockNo=1533

If I remember correctly they meet your criteria everywhere except they do not have two couches.

Not sure if either has cruise control, so ask.

Make a substantially lower offers if you like them. In 18 days they will be one calendar year older.



Good luck, JIM:)

[Journeyone144]

Hi Ed and Nancy,

I won't ever give up..I've been down about it quite a few times with disappointments but in a day or so I've put it behind me and start looking again...

Years ago I believed it could never happen for me because I'd never have enough money but the last 3 yrs...I knew it was possible..and the hunt really began.. but I also still know ...What Will Be Will Be...

I print out any posts that might help down the road...and this is one of them Ed and Nancy...I'll remember the mechanic mention...but you just forget about that Chain Saw and Crow Bar...LOL..

Hugs Always Viv...




I sent Viv a copy of the ad for my bus and she said she wasnt interested because she wanted a walk thru bath and a side mounted bed.
Maybe if I break out the chainsaw and crow bar I could make that happen for her, and still be, at or below the $100,000.00 she wanted to spend.

P.S. hi Viv, glad to see you didnt give up on buying a bus after all.
Good luck, and if you find one in the massachusetts area I know a good mechanic to check things out for you if you need one.

[Journeyone144]

Hi Jim,

I have no idea what's happening with the Duncannon Lady...Steve Katz never sent me the e-mail with the address to go to..like the first time and it's again 9:00 at night...another all day wait for him...

Thank you for the URL's...
The One #1533 at Heartland has the floor plan...so if the Duncannon Lady doesn't pan out I could start a new hunt with that...but I'd wait until after Christmas before I start looking again...

Hugs Always Viv...




Viv, if you get your money back,here are two more to look at.


http://www.heartlandbus.com/VehicleDetail.cfm?StockNo=1533

If I remember correctly they meet your criteria everywhere except they do not have two couches.

Not sure if either has cruise control, so ask.

Make a substantially lower offers if you like them. In 18 days they will be one calendar year older.



Good luck, JIM:)

[lewpopp]

Viv,

I am reluctant to step in to this do-do but I guess I can find a brush to clean up with.

First of all, if you are at the extent of your ready cash at $100,000, you would be FOOLISH to get a loan on your present home. I don't care if it is a castle, with the way prices are, someone will screw you to the wall knowing that you have promised some of it to purchase the "expensive " bus. The prices of property are down, or don't you know that? You will not get near what you want. Knowing you, no one will be without the knowledge you have a big-ass bus and how much you owe on it, etc., etc.

As for Duncannon, I thought it was familiar. I travel thru there twice a year and it is in the sticks of Pa north of Harrisburg.

You would be a lot better off getting a bus closer to $100,000. But don't listen to me. I just happen to have a 90 for sale, but it has a private toilet. I guess you would rather sit out in the open than have privacy. Hell, who am I trying to convince? You haven't convinced us that this story is real.

Oh, by the way.....I will need only $4900.00 deposit for you to see my coach in sunny Florida.

I'm tired out from reading the saga and writing this. Good nite Viv, sleep tight, don't let the bedbugs bite.

[Journeyone144]

OOOHHH Bless You Lew...

For the first time in days I feel like I can really laugh ...

You sure read my floor plan likes and dislikes closely didn't you...When I was a kid I developed that phobia..in the outhouse...!!!!

Forget your 4900 deposit too Lew...Not ever again ...lol..

I know you're trying to talk sense to me...but you're not wearing my shoes...Yours fit good but I still feel the pinch of the ones I got from the Children't Home Free once a month when I was a Dirt Poor Kid...and I can still rough it today...and be glad to to realize My Dream...

I hope more here can understand that...you have to have roughed it to be able to...

I slept half the day away today from pure stress...but my daughter was here last night and she's been kind of against my buying the bus, heck it's her inheritance I'll be squandering in her eyes right...but she's realized her dreams already...and admitted she's spent way too many years just working...

Gave me a big hug when she left and said ...Go for it Mom...I know how much it means to you...!!!! and incidently...She has 18 acres of land in Bayville, NJ..and I can park free there...Forever...That's a big help, isn't it...and of course I have half an acre here...

I needed that more than all of you guys approving...As long as I can make ends meet...I'd love to have that bus...and I don't see why I can't take the chance as long as it doesn't doesn't need major repairs...

That's my only worry...Maybe I can make the seller wait until I can get a mechanic to at least go over it before I buy...if all else looks okay to me...What do you think of that...???

Also Max is in the Racing business...he knows the bus...and maybe he'll tell me the truth...I am trusting to a fault I know...I wonder if I should try to call him.....Nooo....of course I haven't...but I did want to...

I don't want anything else in life and I sure can't take the money with me in a hearse...besides maybe Hospitals and Doctors would wind up getting it if I don't use it while I can ... Smile... I don't really expect that tho'...so do I go to Pa. tomorrow or not...??????

The Good Lord's had my angel on my shoulder for over a million miles in my life and I sure trust Him...

All I've ever wanted was to drive...It's the joy of my life..unusual for a woman I know...but I'm my fathers' daughter..he built his own first car...

Just say a prayer for me and I'll go for broke...as long as no one comes back and still thinks it's unsafe for me to go tomorrow...I'd be happy just to be in it for awhile...I'm not afraid now...Bruce took care of that...I have much better feelings about it...
************************************************** ***
************************************************** ***

and to top it all off....I just got this e-mail from Steve Katz...He's been cagey about everything...such a liar...I don't trust him..one iota...

I don't know how he managed to get that time on his e-mail...'cause I just got it a minute ago...and came back to POG to Post it...

Hugs and Always Love for all of you people...Viv...
************************************************** ****
----- Original Message -----
From: PrevostTrader
To: Vivian A. McGraw
Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: Making a last effort to get to...See, Drive, and Inspect..The Bus in Duncannon, Pa...

The bus is located at 12 High St, New Buffalo,Pa 17069. This is very close to the address I originally gave you. It is where it is stored indoors(a very good thing). When you get there look for a sign that says Reaction Graphics and call me at (239)229-8207. I will let Max know you are there.
Remember Max has hired PrevostTrader to handle any business. He is there to show you the coach only.
Here are the directions from Mapquest:
************************************************** ******


Viv,

I am reluctant to step in to this do-do but I guess I can find a brush to clean up with.

First of all, if you are at the extent of your ready cash at $100,000, you would be FOOLISH to get a loan on your present home. I don't care if it is a castle, with the way prices are, someone will screw you to the wall knowing that you have promised some of it to purchase the "expensive " bus. The prices of property are down, or don't you know that? You will not get near what you want. Knowing you, no one will be without the knowledge you have a big-ass bus and how much you owe on it, etc., etc.

As for Duncannon, I thought it was familiar. I travel thru there twice a year and it is in the sticks of Pa north of Harrisburg.

You would be a lot better off getting a bus closer to $100,000. But don't listen to me. I just happen to have a 90 for sale, but it has a private toilet. I guess you would rather sit out in the open than have privacy. Hell, who am I trying to convince? You haven't convinced us that this story is real.

Oh, by the way.....I will need only $4900.00 deposit for you to see my coach in sunny Florida.

I'm tired out from reading the saga and writing this. Good nite Viv, sleep tight, don't let the bedbugs bite.

[Sid Tuls]

Hi Viv,

Why don't you just get hooked up with a outfit like California Coach Sales?? That way you will be able to have the piece of mind that someone is not trying to take advantage of you!! I'am not pushing this outfit but I'am sure he will help ya. My friend bought one from him last week and was very pleased. That other outfit has nothing to offer but head aches!!

[Coloradobus]

Hi Viv,

Its thirteen below here in the Mile High City. Good luck tomorrow, and Chris and I will raise a frosty glass of OJ to you in the morning.:D

[Journeyone144]

Nooooo Jim & Chris,

I sure hope it's not like that where I'm going...Thanks for the Toast...
I'll toast You all tonight in the motel, with a shot of Chambord...Found a Red Carpet one min. away from Max's Place..!! Smile..

Hugs Always Viv...


Hi Viv,

Its thirteen below here in the Mile High City. Good luck tomorrow, and Chris and I will raise a frosty glass of OJ to you in the morning.:D

[Journeyone144]

Morning Dear Friends, Get ready for another but last BOOK...

Hopefully this will be the last Post about the Lady In Duncannon or Buffalo, Pa.

Thanks to you Bruce and my printing out this Post of yours...I was able to find Max..

When I got To Buffalo I had just passed a Sign for Duncannon...so I went into a Restaurant near Market St. as the MapQuest Directions Said and called Steve Katz...His phone did not answer at all...after several tries...
It was a very small town so I rode up and down and around town looking for Max Naylor's business...It was nowhere...Then I stopped in a Bar and sure enough the younger people in there knew of him and his Racing with NASCAR...but not until I showed them the picture I'd printed out of Max's Racing Website...They had seen the Tractor Trailers parked on a hill in town..with his advertisement on them..

They gave me directions right straight to Max Naylor...and I never would have found it without their directions...

As I pulled up the steep hill to the Trucks I now saw parked up there too...I also saw a man walking in the yard...He came closer as he saw my car approaching..and then I recognized it was Max himself, from the pictures I'd seen last night on the Net...Bruce...

I told him who I was and asked him if I could see the Lady...He was very pleaant and told me it was right there in a huge warehouse he pointed to...
.Best thing I ever did was go yesterday and see the Lady in Buffalo, Pa..
It was the biggest eyeopener I ever got in my life...You know I'd never been inside a Liberty Elegant Lady...only seen pictures...thought they were all about the same size except for more luxury and some being longer....I drove several of the lower end Prevosts like the 92 Country Coach that I could, would and should have owned 2 whole years by now ...
What I saw yesterday blew my mind..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.It was ten times more beautiful than the pictures...it was PERFECT in every way that I could see and tell...the inside was FABULOUS...!!!! I'll say no more because many of you have seen and lived in one...I hadn't even been in one like this..was always going by pictures...I had no problem at all with the several Pre's I've driven ...but none were this height...12" 8" not counting the Satellite on the Roof...!!!!
Jon, Joe, The engine kicked right over...there is a short intended delay before the Generator kicks over...There was a little oil on a post like part in the Generator..Both ran smoothly...I could see no oil on any tires or hub caps...No scratches or mars anywhere on the Coach...Front tires are new... and bigger rear view mirrors Max had improved for 6K ...he told me... set lower for his preference, and rightly soo..smile...
But it was sooooo high ceilinged I was actually afraid to drive it...Max did offer to let me...He was a wonderful gentleman...It was beyond my wildest Dream...and if I wasn't alone I'd have given everything I have to get it...but I am alone...and I can't do it...
I was in 7th Heaven sitting in that drivers seat but when I looked up I actually felt nauseaus..The ceiling is sooo high..I can't say that enough times..That and the bay doors...keep me from being able to have it...
.Max said don't look up...but I couldn't help it...lol...
What I can't do at all is lift the huge bay doors up and then I can't reach them to pull them back down...So I'd have to have help anytime I wanted to get into a bay...Not good...I've done everything possible to make my Dolphin so I could be independent...
Yesterday I drove my tow car from 9:30 AM..stopping only to spend an hour with Max in and around his Liberty...after two hours ot trying to find his place...eat feed & walk my Maltese Saffy..Arrived home at 11:30 PM...I guess I spent 10 full hours driving...got gas twice...a hot 8 dollars it took the first time to refill and. 9 dollars the second time..tah dahhhh....but I got myself good and lost trying to read the MapQuest Directions backwards to return home...Forget it..Impossible..took 4 hours up to Buffalo, Pa..and 6 or more back to NJ...lol...The tank still reads full...but I think it lies a little..I think I covered at least 600 miles..

That proves I have the stamina to do what I set out to do...

I could transfer my automatic cord winders for the elec.and water from my Dolphin to a bus...but not a 50amp...mine are 30 amp.winders.. I could never pull that 50 amp elec. cord out by myself..much less wind it up again...
The Country Coach I bought in Fl...and never got to bring home...I could open and close the bay doors..they were no where near as big as the Lady's...the ceiling wasn't near as high as the Lady's is...

These are the reasons I can't buy the Lady in Buffalo, Pa...so I'll look for a County Coach like the 92 I missed...at Eagles Pride in Fl...

If anyone here is in the market for a Lady...It's my belief ...you could have a Palace on Wheels...if you looked at Max's...

Someone buy it and take me for a ride in it...Please...

Ever since I waked up this morning I keep wondering if it might not have looked so big outside that warehouse hanger Max keeps it in...the thing looked big enough to hold a jet plane...It was a good walk to the bus parked up in front...

I will find the bus for me...Count on it...I promise...

Merry Christmas...

Hugs Always Love Viv..
PS: Incidently the only thing I didn't like about it was that green stripe that runs around the middle of the Coach...and I told Max...he countered with look what you're wearing ...a green suit...lol...but it's different when the green is in clothes...lol...






Here is some feedback that I have been able to grab on to:

Max Naylor who is listed at the address Viv is supposed to go to below also is listed in New Buffalo Pa. max appears to be in the racing business, builds race cars races etc. his pictures and background all look good, especially if he really owns a 1993 Prevost H340. I bet it is his race Bus, could be good could be bad., but the man is for real, I do not seem to be able to get a number on him.

Max R Naylor
139 Old Trail Rd
Duncannon Pa 17020

48 Mill St
New Buffalo Pa 17069

NHRA Driver Mailbox: Pro Stock
Max Naylor 48 Mill Street New Buffalo, PA 17069. Website: www.naylorracing.com. David Nickens Nickens Brothers Racing Engines 200 Beach Aitport Road ...
www.nhra.com/drivers/mailbox/prostock.html - 8k - Cached - Similar pages -

http://blogs.nhra.com/nhrablogs.asp?blog=naylor

2008, JARMAX, LLC ...
File Format: Shockwave Flash
... A N O M O P Naylor is FUELED and Ready Max Naylor Powered by a New Fuel, VegasFuel. ... LLC JARMAX, LLC 48 Mill Street New Buffalo, Pennsylvania 17069 .

If any members are involved in the race business you might have heard of Max Naylor, any clues would be nice.

[0533]

While you are still thinking clearly about the purchase it might be a good idea to draft and send the letter of withdrawal to Steve Katz. Did you tell Max you were not going to purchase the bus?? Was he aware you were coming?? Did you or will you call Max and ask him to ask Steve to return the deposit. Get the due diligence stuff done now.

[Journeyone144]

Evening Bruce,All,
I've been busy on the phone with both banks and written numerous letters..one to the other List that I've been on 8 or 8 yrs..I'm well known there and have met in person many members..at Get Togethers as we call them on the RV-Singles Group...so I've copied and pasted the Leader there's message to me just now..Her name is Becky...
They're a lot like you guys here but not many have diesel coaches more have gas engines...not all...smile...
Hugs Always Viv..
************************************************** **
Hi All,
Just wanted to let you know what's been happening with my deposit request for a refund since I wrote Steve Katz again and told him I can't buy the 93 Prevost..in Buffalo, Pa..owned by Max...
I tried to find a phone number for Max Naylor on his Website but I just couldn't...spent hours looking at all the Drag Racing about him...
My Bank asked me to call Suntrust Bank in the Villages in Fl...where my PNC Bank sent the Deposit...and ask them myself to return the deposit...I did and they told me they've been trying to contact Steve Katz to return it but he doesn't respond to them...My Bank requested the deposit back last Saturday the 6th and again today...the 17th...My bank officer, Dalna was on vacation last week ...she wired the money for me on Friday...but another bank officer requested the deposit back from Steve while she was away last Saturday...only one day after it was made but he had cashed it right away....Dalna and was back to wire the second request for the return today...
I did as Dalna asked and called Sun Trust myself as I am the one requesting the refund...Rosemarie Pensabene who had accepted the wire at Sun Trust was unavailable today but another officer is handling the transaction now...they tell me Steve Katz isn't responding to their request for him to contact them either...
Max told me he bought the Lady from Steve Katz...
Steve has his answering machine on but is not returning my numerous calls...I will write BBB in Central Fl..with a complaint tomorrow...My Bank asked me to wait one day...while they try to get it back...
Hugs Always Viv...
************************************************** ***
----- Original Message -----
From: Vivian A. McGraw
To: RV-Singles@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: [RV-Singles] Re: Finally Getting to See the 93 Prevost Elegant Liberty Lady in Buffalo, Pa.
Hi Becky, All,
I've been doing every thing possible to contact Steve Katz.. of Prevost Trader.com http://www.prevosttrader.com/ whom my bank wired the money to his Sun Trust Bank in Fl...
His e-mail is...
prevosttrader@embarqmail.com
His Phone No. is...
(239) 229-8207
I've sent him letters, called him, numerous times...
He never gave me a correct address or full name of the owner, or a phone number for the owner...
I found out where his trucks for his business were located when I went into a local tavern in Buffalo, Pa...two days ago...the younger people knew who Max was right away because Max has several huge tractor trailers ...ablaze with advertisement of the Drag Racing he does...I got a website from one of the young men at the tavern...who knew Max's last name was Naylor...That was all the key I needed to find him...
Max Naylor in a search engine brought up...
http://www.dogpile.com/dogpile/ws/results/Web/max%20naylor%20drag%20racing/1/417/TopNavigation/Relevance/iq=true/zoom=off/_iceUrlFlag=7?_IceUrl=true and much much more...but I still can't find a phone number for Max himself...
My Bank thinks he may not even know that Steve Katz has money that I wired him...!!!! and I never thought to ask Max if he did when he showed me the bus...We didn't discuss money at all ...I told Max I couldn't buy it ...and he understood that I wouldn't...Was very pleasant about it all...every thing....He just showed me the bus...and all about it...
I couldn't reach the bay doors to pull them down after they went up...and the 50 Amp elec. cable was 100'...I could never move it..much less coil it up...smile...
Thanks for anything anyone wants to try to encourage this man return the deposit...I should have a right to change my mind and I have...this bus isn't for me...He knew I would not buy it until I saw it, drove it, and had it inspected by a mechanic...
I couldn't drive it..it was.much toooo high. Max said it is..12' 8"...plus satellite on the roof...
Break time...I'm a mess...and still tired after 13 and a half hours looking for Max and getting back home...
Hugs Always Viv...
----- Original Message -----
From: (Becky)
To: RV-Singles@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:04 AM
Subject: [RV-Singles] Re: Finally Getting to See the 93 Prevost Elegant Liberty Lady in Buffalo, Pa.
VIVIAN - Perhaps if you have an email address, some of us could
participate in writing this gentleman, telling him that we are members
of a large group of RVers, and that we are disappointed in how he is
handling this matter by not giving you the names of the RV owners so
that you could 'see' the rig before sending him money. Seems he was
inappropriate, and a bit of email from other RVers might 'help' him see
that it would be much better if he could have been more thoughtful?
Hugs,
Becky





While you are still thinking clearly about the purchase it might be a good idea to draft and send the letter of withdrawal to Steve Katz. Did you tell Max you were not going to purchase the bus?? Was he aware you were coming?? Did you or will you call Max and ask him to ask Steve to return the deposit. Get the due diligence stuff done now.

[0533]

Hello Viv,

You have to put Steve Katz on notice via the US mail. Please remember to send along a registered letter asap. Send it as an overnight US mail Registered, return receipt requested with the demand .

Contact Katz one more time at this # (239) 229-8207, (if he does not answer still leave the message and your #) tell him that you want your money back or you will be contacting the BBB and the Florida states Attorney Office and ask to file a complaint for Crimes against The Elderly,
Frauds and Scams. Loss of money can be critical for anyone with limited financial resources, but for many older persons, it can be devastating. Some of the elderly are even more susceptible to fraudulent schemes. While it is difficult to draw general conclusions, there are various factors (and combinations of factors) that can lead to victimization. Here is their website:
Florida takes this very seriously http://myfloridalegal.com/

Also call Max Naylor and tell him what has happened, there is a likely hood that he does not know this is going on, ask him to call Steve as I do not think he is a party to this fraudulent Scheme of Steve's.

Naylor Automotive
10349 Winterstown Rd
Red Lion, PA 17356
(717) 246-1183

Do all of this and you will be heading in the right direction.

[Darl-Wilson]

Here is a picture of a Dentist Steven Katz (http://www.smilesonbroadway.com/dr_katz.html)from New York that may have taken as early as 1984. It doesn't look a lot like this New York transplant now working "with "Prevost Trader" (http://www.prevosttrader.com/index.php?view=2/0).
Since the site states he worked in Naples, Fl there is a phone listed there for Steve Katz 239-261-7409. (http://www.google.com/search?q=Steve+katz,+Naples,fl&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=eun&pb=r&sa=X&oi=rwp&ct=title) It seems like that name is very common in the Eastern part of the US. My bet is he owns the Prevosttrader.com site since he is listed as the 'Administrative and Technical Contact'. Scroll to bottom. Here is his information with addresses and fax. (http://who.godaddy.com/WhoIsStd.aspx?k=RO9qdCVA7Hv/JoE087PeAoycaNJE/bB4%22&domain=prevosttrader.com&prog_id=godaddy)He has owned this site since 6-22-04 in the name of Naples Coach from Ft. Myers FL. If he owns Naples Coach or is misrepresenting himself as being licensed in the state I suggest you call the Florida Division of Motor Vehicles (http://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/dealer.html#recdeal)where they can verify if Steve Katz is licensed and if his representation on the Prevost Trader website is accurate.

My guess is there is 'Something Rotten in Denmark' and Steve is in the middle of theft investigations similar to what has happened to you Viv. This whole thing stinks! Think about it. You are following instructions from someone that has ripped you off for $5K, to drive to a remote area in PA. Then you are waiting for a call that never comes from this miscreant. Why didn't he just give you Max's phone number before you drove all the way from NJ? And why are you, an adult woman, exposing yourself to unbelievable danger?

Viv, quit fooling around with this guy and go to the source (State of Florida) and get the lowdown on Mr. Steve Katz. If you need help I am sure most of our POG members will help you. If you need my help give me a call. My info is listed on "Dale's Map". Simply put, stop exposing yourself to danger by driving around the country by yourself and listen to members here that are trying to help you and to your family. Don't make yourself a statistic. The authorities in Florida are your best bet right now. Calll them and listen to their advice. Most of all, quit following instructions from Mr. Steve Katz!!

Good Luck,

Darl

[0533]

Darl has done some good homework on Steve, and I think it would be safe to use this address for the Letter:
Steve Katz
Naples Coach, LLC
16530 Timberlakes Dr
Ft Myers, Florida 33908

I would also contact the Lee County District Attorney's Office and ask what your options are:

2115 2nd St
Fort Myers, FL 33901
(239) 335-2236
- leegov.com

[Will Garner]

Viv,

Certified and Return Receipt Requested. I'd also show a cc: to the Lee County District Attorney's office (if that is the correct county) and also find out who the U. S. Attorney is for Florida and include that person as a cc:.

Its time this issue gets closed out - in your favor.

[Journeyone144]

First let me give you the... "light side"...Must find a light side or cave in...!!
One of my friends just sent me a URL for a Bus...guess where it is and I would, before all this, lol, have liked to see it...at "Prevost Trader"...!!!!
http://www.prevosttrader.com/index.php?v=8&iview=117

I did call the place below, Naylor Automotive in Red Lion, Pa...and the person who answered told me his name was Tom Naylor and that he did own an auto sales lot not busses...!!!! said he was located about 50 miles south of Duncannon and Buffalo...and he'd never heard of Max Naylor...

I also called the BBB...and after talking with the woman who answered she referred me to the Atty. General's Complaint Office...

I spent the best part of yesterday compiling and printing out the messages between me and Prevost Trader...and I hate paper work...lol...
fter I talked to an investigator at the Atty. General's office in Central Fl..where, one Ken Miller... found out right away Steve Katz the Prevost Trader is located in Fort Meyers...He told me to fill out their form and also send them copies of the communication between me and Steve...It's finished and I'm mailing the two copies I made to the two Offices below that the Agent gave me...

Attorney General's office in Tallahassee, Fl...
and
Dept. of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles in Palmetto, Fl..

Now all I can do is wait to hear back from them...but Ken the Agent I talked to sounded very confident that I'd have no trouble getting my Deposit back...He checked Steve's Website while I was on the phone with him and said it is a bonefide Website...and they would investigate my complaint...

I thought it was unusual how many questions this agent was asking me...I came away with the feeling that Steve is already under investigation...This agent seemed to me to be more interested in all I had to say...than such an agency usually would...He talked to me for over 20 minutes..and made very sure I had the two addresses he gave me correct...Also he said I could fill their forms out on the Net but that he would need me to send copies of my communication with Steve Katz mailed to them so if I could just print out their form and include it that would be easier for me and them...

Here is the URL for the Blank form I filled out..then printed out...
http://app1.800helpfla.com/cswebcomplaints/FileComplaint.aspx

This may also be of help to someone else who finds themselves in such a predicament..

Hey Guys, I'm careful of what I do and where I go...been traveling alone for many years..low profile..take off my jewelry, lol..bought many motor homes, etc...I've never even had a close call of anything bad ever...Not that it can't happen, I know...but on my "Trip of Trips" 11 thousand miles in a 5 mo. time frame..as I called my Albums on Webshots..my Trip across country to Ca. in 2006 was the scariest one I ever took...I thought Texas would never end...and I worried about breaking down on that desolate I-10...but I never had so much as a flat tire...

I have an enormous amount of Faith in our Maker and I know I have an angel on my shoulder every mile I've ever driven alone...and I ain't done yet...!!!!
Smile...

Jugs o' Hugs to ya'll....Gosh I love ya's...

Merry.... Merry Christmas..!!!....... Always Love Viv...
v*************************************************
"I get up. I walk. I fall down. Meanwhile, I keep driving."

My Home Pages - Viv in Brick, NJ
http://www.geocities.com/Vivians_Journey/?200714
http://www.geocities.com/Vivian_McGraw
My Life in Pictures & Captions
http://community.webshots.com/user/journey144
Scroll down to...'Beyond the call of duty' ...for this little story about me in Road & Travel Magazine....
http://www.roadandtravel.com/adventuretravel/rvingforwomen.htm
Enjoy
and Nov. 08 Issue of BCM is telling my story...on their..."Bus Nut of the Month"...article... Please see. Bus Nut For Life...
http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2832359540034860664YHSRDW




Viv,

Certified and Return Receipt Requested. I'd also show a cc: to the Lee County District Attorney's office (if that is the correct county) and also find out who the U. S. Attorney is for Florida and include that person as a cc:.

Its time this issue gets closed out - in your favor.

[Journeyone144]

Hi Daryl, All,

I tried to attach the picture Steve Katz has attached to some of his e-mails to me..but it wouldn't take from my e-mail and I couldn't even send it to My Documents much less put it up on My Webshots Albums..the only thing I can think of now is to try to send it to you by forwarding the message with the pic on it to you Daryl...is that Ok with you..??

I finally heard from him since I went to Pa...below is his message..
Hugs Viv...

----- Original Message -----
From: PrevostTrader
To: Vivian A. McGraw
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 8:42 AM
Subject: PrevostTrader


Vivian:
I am currently traveling inspecting coaches in some remote areas where cell service and email is not always available. I hope by now you have been to see the coach, and I will contact you when I return to the office.
Happy Holidays
Steve


On Dec 17, 2008, at 11:12 AM, Vivian A. McGraw wrote:


Dear Steve Katz,

I cannot find a snail mail address for Prevost Trader on your Website...
I need it to send you snail mail...

Kindly reply to this e-mail with same...as I cannot get your phone number to answer...(239) 229-8207

Thank you,

Vivian A. McGraw
732-458-3480










--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.19/1854 - Release Date: 12/17/2008 7:21 PM




Darl has done some good homework on Steve, and I think it would be safe to use this address for the Letter:
Steve Katz
Naples Coach, LLC
16530 Timberlakes Dr
Ft Myers, Florida 33908

I would also contact the Lee County District Attorney's Office and ask what your options are:

2115 2nd St
Fort Myers, FL 33901
(239) 335-2236
- leegov.com

[Journeyone144]

Hello All,

I have just this minute received the below e-mail from Steve Katz of Prevost Trader Website on the Net... www.prevosttrader.com
The bus on the his first page is the one in question for 150K URL is..
http://www.prevosttrader.com/index.php?v=8&iview=27

This was the first bus of this kind that I had ever been inside...

For the record...I have driven several lower profile Prevosts...but this one was sooo high I was afraid to drive it...as well as being almost 13' high the entire ceiling inside was mirrored making the inside seem even higher than it was...reflecting everything below...I became nauseaus when I looked up from the drivers seat and thought about driving it..Just couldn't do it...

I couldn't lift the weight of the huge bay doors to raise them or reach the pockets in the bay doors to pull them closed...

Also the 100' 50 Amp. electric cord was much to heavy for me to pull out manually or coil up after use....these are the 3 main reasons I couldn't buy this bus...

And there was no dresser shelf across the back of the coach which was a must for the floor plan to be so I would have a place to put it for playing my Technics 6000 Musical Keyboard...which is also too heavy for me to move by myself...

The Deposit mentioned in the last line of Steve Katz's e-mail was for 5,000.00 -
I was out abit ago for dinner with my friend Karen and her daughter Beka...We also went to the post office and after numerous phone calls to Florida as was requested of Florida I mailed two large manilla envelopes containing duplicates of much of the communication and non-communication between myself and Steve Katz...to>>>

Office of the Attorney General ...Tallahassee, Fl.. and to:
Dept. of Highway Safety & Motor Vehicles...Palmetta, Fl..

Hugs Always Viv...

----- Original Message -----
From: PrevostTrader
To: Vivian A. McGraw
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 4:08 PM
Subject: PrevostTrader


Vivian:
On November 27, 2008 you contacted PrevostTrader regarding stock #MN-93. You said "I've been searching for this exact floor plan coach for almost 3 yrs". From my discussions with others in the industry, I know you have looked at many Liberty Elegant Ladys, and know them very well. On December 2, 2008 you made an offer of $135,000 and it was accepted. On December 5, 2008 you received the Acceptance of Offer along with instructions for wiring the deposit. The funds were received and the coach was taken off the market since you were buying it.
Over the next few days two potential buyers were told the coach was sold, and they both purchased coaches elsewhere. During that same time period you were asked repeatedly when you were planning to pick up the coach, and there was no reply.
As you know very well, you are obligated to complete the purchase and send the remaining $130,000 to the seller. I have asked the seller to release you from this obligation, and he has agreed. You should consider yourself very lucky.
Of course, the deposit will be retained to cover expenses incurred.
************************************************** ****

On Dec 17, 2008, at 11:12 AM, Vivian A. McGraw wrote:


Dear Steve Katz,

I cannot find a snail mail address for Prevost Trader on your Website...
I need it to send you snail mail...

Kindly reply to this e-mail with same...as I cannot get your phone number to answer...(239) 229-8207

Thank you,

Vivian A. McGraw
732-458-3480


photo was here...

Steve Katz


PrevostTrader
sales@prevosttrader.com
www.PrevostTrader.com
(239)229-8207




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------








Viv,

Certified and Return Receipt Requested. I'd also show a cc: to the Lee County District Attorney's office (if that is the correct county) and also find out who the U. S. Attorney is for Florida and include that person as a cc:.

Its time this issue gets closed out - in your favor.

[Ray Davis]

HI Viv,

I've read this thead almost every day. I certainly do not condone the actions of Steve Katz. However, I think I will admit, that he indicated that he was leary of working with you because of wasting time with sellers, and then when you finally see this bus, you gave 3 reasons for declining what he takes to be the offer to purchase.

Like I said, I don't agree with Steve, and if it were me, I'd refund the money, and be done with it.

But, let me give at least a little perspective on some other alternatives. IF it really is your dream to own a Prevost, AND this coach is as nice as you described, then let's see about the negatives.

1. 100 foot extension cord - Have an electrician cut the cord into 4 25 foot lengths, and add adjoining connectors, so the cords can be chained together. In almost every campground I've been in 25 foot would be more than enough to reach the electrical box. Worst case, you have to coil and uncoil a 25 cord, or a second 25 foot cord, if need be. Even with a cord winder, you still generally have to lift about a 25 foot section around and over to the power pole anyway.


2. Bay doors. I think I'm correct in that ALL prevost bay doors are gonna be this big, and this high. A bay door with proper gas structs should weigh very little, and should go up and down with a minimum of force. I would bring a small stepstool inside your coach, and when you need to lower/raise a bay door, use a stepstool. Again, this is based upon getting the bad doors properly adjusted, so that they raise and lower easily. IF these doors are too heavy on this Prevost, I would venture to say they are too heavy on all Prevosts, as they don't change a whole lot.

3. Ceiling too high - I will admit, this is the one I have a hard time getting my head around. I will say I don't tend to look at the ceiling when I'm driving. IF the mirrored ceiling is a problem, you could consider covering the ceiling with fabric, sheers, even painting the mirrors, to reduce the apparent height of the bus. Most of us want as much ceiling room in a coach as we can get. All Prevosts are going to go down the road at at least 12'10" (with satelite TV). I doubt this one is much different.


So, all of this is to say is IF this bus was perfect in every other way, other than the few things mentioned, then perhaps there is a way around those issues. Thinking outside the box may allow you to have that dream you've told us about.

I don't want to be harsh, but I know a number of us POG people are very concerned for or about you. Probably many would actually feel better, if you didn't find a coach, as they are concerned about you on the road in a rig that is too much for you.

I hesitated in even writing this post, but you seemed as someone so determined to "live your dream", yet when you found a pretty great bus, you gave up on it really easily? I don't know, I'm going by memory here, but I thought you described a beautiful bus, but ..... (the but being the three things above).

I wish you best luck in this. I hope you get your money back from Mr. Katz, but it seems like he's going to fight you tooth and nail. I hope you are able to find and live that dream.


Ray

[Journeyone144]

Hi Ray,

I want you to know I appreciate your telling me your honest feelings..

Now I'm going to tell you mine...Don't think for one minute that I'll ever give up on the Dream I've had since I was in my teens...

I've driven hundreds of MCI's...!!! and much older junks at H.A.M.L. bus co. in New Brunswick, NJ for Rutgers & 4 other colleges located there...Campus Bus...but it has been since 83 when I retired because Lincoln Transit went out of business overnight and some 60 drivers went to work with our days runs in our hands, to find the doors to the terminal locked..I was the only woman driver Lincoln Transit ever had in 50 yrs. of business..

Two days later we were called in to get our pay checks..and John Bishop who was my boss, and had given me the worst busses and the worst runs he could possibly give me trying to discourage me and induce me to quit..

John got up from behind his desk after he'd handed me my last pay envelope..He came around to me...put his arm around my shoulders and walked me to the door...on the way he told me he wanted me to know he'd treated me the way he had because he had to..and now he wanted me to know I was a good a driver as any he had and he was proud to have known me..It made up for all the very many tough hours I put in at the garage with other drivers who almost hated me because I was even there..but once I got behind the wheel of my bus for the day...it was worth all the harrassment I had to tolerate..busses with no power steering..!! busses that had been left outside the garage all night in a snow storm with the driver window open and snow on the seat and dash that I had to sweep away before I could put my cushion down, start it and pray my air came up..!! Much more but you get the idea...I never quit..!! and I won't now..!! I've owned 4 Class A. RV's alone since my husband died ten yrs. ago...and 10 more prior to that .....

I've been able to do nothing but think about every aspect of that Lady since I got back into my car and headed back to NJ..

It was sooooo beautiful...I had to pull over several times until I could stop crying...but that's normal for a woman..and I am all woman..There's no tough guy thinker in me..I consider myself a Lady...I just love to drive..and I miss driving my busses every single day..

The Lady was sooo beautiful I thought it was too beautiful for me..I felt out of place in it..I wished I could be alone in it for awhile...to just take it all in and kind of think of what it would be like doing dishes in that sink, washing clothes in that washer, eating at that table, sleeping in that bed..dressing in that bathroom...sitting behind that wheel and moving down the road...!!!!!!!.sooo beautiful...Not my Dream..but much much more than I'd ever imagined..I was soooo intimidated..when I came down those stairs leaving the bus, Max was at the bottom on the pavement of the warehouse looking at me and I felt like a tiny little old lady..and I saw in his eyes that he saw the same...well maybe I am old but I have all my marbles and I can back my 37 footer out my drive way as easy as if it were my Cavalier..and head down the road for Fl..more comfortable now than I did 30 yrs. ago with out the experience I have behind me today...

I've driven 3 Prevosts, none seemed high like this bus...the height concerned me in NONE of them..and I had the same feeling I've had about all the busses I've driven...None intimidated me...hi hats or fishbowls...all the same to me..I just wanted to keep on going until I got tired...but they didn't have the mirrored ceilings..and all that luxury..that was overwhelming me..

Then too, when Max opened the Warehouse doors we had to walk at least double the length of the bus to get to it...It was big enough to hold a plane..made me think of the dirigible hanger in Lakehurst, NJ..I've taken bus loads there on tour..Course it wasn't that big but it made me think of it..and it was dark in there..what little light there was wasn't much...and I didn't notice where it was coming from..

Then we reached the bus door and when Max opened it... it was pitch black inside the coach...until he turned the lights on we couldn't see a thing..so here I am in this bus like it will be at night the very first time I see it, and it's like nothing I've ever seen before in my life...then after exploring and Max showing me cupboards, closets, etc..my eyes are trying to see everywhere..at once..and a lot of the areas are still dark, all of it so brand new to me...

Then I sat down behind that wheel...and I cannot express my feelings...but they were no different than when at the wheel of the Country Coach in Titusville when I thought it was mine...exhilerting...!! Ya gotta love it to know where I'm coming from..

It's nothing like the other 3 Prevost's I've driven for only a few miles trying them out...buying one, all but signing the final papers at B.O.A. in an hour... partially moved into it..a 92 Country Coach and the dealer last minute telling me he'd made a 3 Thousand Dollar error in his figures.!!!.He knew I had to have that much left...after the buy...for travel..I saw thru him and I just took what I'd moved into the coach, put it back in my own..and left..This is what happens to women shopping alone...not just me...most of us..Several hundred miles up the road to NJ..he called me on my cell phone to come back for the bus..I said if he'd pay for the gas I'd used..I would...but he couldn't do that and I didn't go back...How I've wished a thousand times that I had...I'd have had the bus I'd have been content with over 2 yrs. now...
The Lady may be too much for me..but the Country Coach isn't...

Maybe if I handn't been so tired and hungry and it raining off and on all the way to Max's.. feeling and looking disheveled from the neat hairdo all askew..from the wind and rain...

If the bus had been outside in daylight it might not have looked sooo huge to me...I don't know...Also there was a very steep hill up to the flat area where two huge warehouses were plus several Tractor Trailers with blazing pictures of Drag Racing Cars painted on them...I thought I wouldn't want to be bringing the Dolphin up or down that incline..and now I'm having to go in this dark warehouse alone with a strange man, although I wasn't in the least concerned about any ulterior motives I was just plain nervous..on top of being hungry and very tired after 5 or more hours driving my little Cavalier Convertible up to Buffalo...with it raining off and on trying hard not to miss any of the tricky turns getting from one interstate to another and finally Rt. 15 to now look for Market St..that I didn't ever find..going in and out of 3 restaurants, a motel, and stopping several people walking to ask questions, hoping to find Max's location after the Garage where I made several phone calls to Steve Katz's number that never did answer...then finally going into a pub where I saw young people's pick up trucks parked outside..and getting lucky...because they were pretty sure they knew who it was I was looking for..I was about ready to give up...I'd never have found Max without them..!!! It was close to 4:00 P.M. when I drove up Max's hill...and I'd left my house at 9:A.M. !!!

After I left Max..telling him it was too much for me to take on...He indicated No problem..I had the problem...for days it's all I've been able to think about...I do know the Lady's too much for me...but the Country Coach is NOT..!!! I was never intimidated when I got behind the wheel of anyone of them..Maybe after I sell my house I'd even trade a Country Coach in on a Lady...if I live that long...but know this I will find a 90 or so Country Coach or one like it...maybe even a little older so I can have money enough to buy the mobile home in Fl..that I already know about and that would allow me to put my house on the market...and park my Bus on that property free...with taxes under 500 a yr...compared to the taxes I now pay of close to 5,000 a yr...

That trip took me over 13 hours..because it was pouring rain driving home most of the way trying to back track the Map Quest Print Out...Impossible..and delays on the interstates as the traffic was heavy with people trying to get home from work...so somehow I wound up in Washington...Pa..had to be because I hadn't crossed anybridges and you have to cross a bridge to get back into NJ..I finally found myself in Phila. proper...and a gas station attendant told me I was very near the Betsy Ross Bridge...I found that easily with his directions...and it brought me out at exit 4 on the NJ Tnpk...From there I knew my way home...arrived home at 11:30 P.M. never so exhaused in countless years...

Wanna laugh..Steve has another bus on his Website that I could handle...but would you want to deal with this man after what he's put me through..

Do you understand how I feel any better now..I hope so..

Hugs Always Viv..



HI Viv,

I hesitated in even writing this post, but you seemed as someone so determined to "live your dream", yet when you found a pretty great bus, you gave up on it really easily? I don't know, I'm going by memory here, but I thought you described a beautiful bus, but ..... (the but being the three things above).


Ray

[Will Garner]

Viv,

I just want to add my Ditto to what Ray said earlier. A Prevost is just that, a Prevost. Little changes between them. Ray has some good thoughts on how to get you past your problem areas. Follow them.

As for mirrored ceilings, well Carole and I did not like them either. So did we run around the websites oh'ing and ah'ing over coaches with mirrored ceilings - no. Our first question about a potential coach, if we could not tell the answer from photos, was "Does the coach have a mirrored ceiling?" If the answer was yes, then we looked elsewhere.

We are also not into wine and cheese. We once were but had to give it up some time ago. So that meant we had no idea what we would do with the built in, glass front, cabinets for holding wine glasses. Scratch off that one too.

Bottom line, YOU MUST make a list of must have features as well as a list of absolutely don't want features. Anything not on or on the coach from either list is then what YOU must deal with from your budget. The other thing you might want to do is locate local resources for making modifications to your liking, and for performing maintenance on, your bought coach. Will the businesses you have used for mantenancing your previous RV's do work on a Prevost. It is worth asking the question, especially since I found out this year that Country Caoch's sole representative in NC does not feel they are "qualified" to work on a Prevost - even though what I needed work on was a Country Coach system not Prevost.

After reading this blog from its start I am beginning to understand where Steve Katz is coming from. Not that I agree with him but I do think he should give you your deposit back and move on down the road.

[dalej]

Viv,

It you talk to Steve and let him know that there is another bus on his site that would be a better fit for you, he might be willing to credit the 5k that has been paid.

[truk4u]

Remember guys, she was looking at an "H340", not an XL. That's probably why she was spooked at the ceiling height from the drivers seat and not being able to reach the bay doors when open.

At least I think it was a H340, so I expect incoming if it wasn't.:p

[garyde]

Hi Viv. I find your stories compelling. Your going to have to bite the bullit and buy a Coach. It seems like everytime you get close, you sabotage the deal. Just get it done.

[tdelorme]

Hi Viv. I find your stories compelling. Your going to have to bite the bullit and buy a Coach. It seems like everytime you get close, you sabotage the deal. Just get it done.

That really is good advice. I would add this: Forget about RV Trader, Prevost Trader and all the other classified papers and websites. Get with a reputable dealer, let them know your budget and what you are looking for and be prepared to do the deal when they call.

I would put my trust in any of the dealers that support POG, and would add Paul Davis at Mr. Oliver's in Texas. These folks haven't stayed in business year after year selling junk. They have stayed in business because they take care of their customers and if you pay a little more for a coach up front, it's money well spent.

[Journeyone144]

Yes Tom,
The bus in Pa is an H340...I know that very well now...
Because I never knew there could be such a huge difference in height of the busses until that day when I climbed up those steps in Pa..
Max did tell me it was 12' 8" when he saw my shocked expression...and I don't know how much lower an XL is...Never thought about it...always thought they were all the same...
I'd never seen any talk about height anywhere here on POG or at any Website until my own Post about it here...
Then several of you said you purposely looked elsewhere when you saw the height and the mirrored ceilings...you didn't like them..!! so you can imagine how that affected me...
What is the difference in height between the H340 and the XL..Now I need to know..
I just thought those numbers and letters were Prevost's ID of their busses...had no idea they revealed height and maybe other things...is there anything else those numbers are meant to tell us...I need to learn that if there is...
Merry Christmas ...Love Viv...




Remember guys, she was looking at an "H340", not an XL. That's probably why she was spooked at the ceiling height from the drivers seat and not being able to reach the bay doors when open.

At least I think it was a H340, so I expect incoming if it wasn't.:p

[Journeyone144]

Evening All,
Been over a month since I sent all the info I have between me and Steve Katz of Prevost Trader to the State Atty. General of Fl..and The Safety Motor Vehicle Dept..'
Finally received a letter back from them today..
They sent copies of my complaint to Steve Katz...and they were returned...Address not found...
Also Steve Katz's Website is still there but inactive in any way...
www.prevosttrader.com
I was hoping Dale, whose last name I can't remember but it was he who found Max Naylor...so I wonder if he could find an accurate address for Steve Katz in Florida..Everything is at a standstill unless I can give the State of Fl. a valid address to reach Steve...
I just wrote a very detailed explanation of all this but I was interrupted with company at the house and when I came back and finished the letter...I sent it with out making a copy of it and it disappeared, probably
because of the length of time I'd been away from the computer leaving my unfinished letter on my task bar...but the above explanins it all in brief...I need to produce a valid address for Steve Katz to get any further toward retrieving my deposit...
Thanks so much for listening ...
Warm Hugs Always Viv...


Yes Tom,
The bus in Pa is an H340...
I just thought those numbers and letters were Prevost's ID of their busses...had no idea they revealed height and maybe other things...is there anything else those numbers are meant to tell us...I need to learn that if there is...
Merry Christmas ...Love Viv...

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Here is a picture of a Dentist Steven Katz (http://www.smilesonbroadway.com/dr_katz.html)from New York that may have taken as early as 1984. It doesn't look a lot like this New York transplant now working "with "Prevost Trader" (http://www.prevosttrader.com/index.php?view=2/0).
Since the site states he worked in Naples, Fl there is a phone listed there for Steve Katz 239-261-7409. (http://www.google.com/search?q=Steve+katz,+Naples,fl&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=eun&pb=r&sa=X&oi=rwp&ct=title) It seems like that name is very common in the Eastern part of the US. My bet is he owns the Prevosttrader.com site since he is listed as the 'Administrative and Technical Contact'. Scroll to bottom. Here is his information with addresses and fax. (http://who.godaddy.com/WhoIsStd.aspx?k=RO9qdCVA7Hv/JoE087PeAoycaNJE/bB4%22&domain=prevosttrader.com&prog_id=godaddy)He has owned this site since 6-22-04 in the name of Naples Coach from Ft. Myers FL. If he owns Naples Coach or is misrepresenting himself as being licensed in the state I suggest you call the Florida Division of Motor Vehicles (http://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/dealer.html#recdeal)where they can verify if Steve Katz is licensed and if his representation on the Prevost Trader website is accurate.

My guess is there is 'Something Rotten in Denmark' and Steve is in the middle of theft investigations similar to what has happened to you Viv. This whole thing stinks! Think about it. You are following instructions from someone that has ripped you off for $5K, to drive to a remote area in PA. Then you are waiting for a call that never comes from this miscreant. Why didn't he just give you Max's phone number before you drove all the way from NJ? And why are you, an adult woman, exposing yourself to unbelievable danger?

Viv, quit fooling around with this guy and go to the source (State of Florida) and get the lowdown on Mr. Steve Katz. If you need help I am sure most of our POG members will help you. If you need my help give me a call. My info is listed on "Dale's Map". Simply put, stop exposing yourself to danger by driving around the country by yourself and listen to members here that are trying to help you and to your family. Don't make yourself a statistic. The authorities in Florida are your best bet right now. Calll them and listen to their advice. Most of all, quit following instructions from Mr. Steve Katz!!

Good Luck,

Darl



Hi Viv, maybe you meant Darl had some address information. Hope it is what you wanted!

JIM :)

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Viv, there are two addresses shown above. Send to both.

JIM

[Journeyone144]

Thank You Jim, and Dale..

I remembered Dale's Post but couldn't find it anymore...but now
I've sent this info to Hilda Hines in Fl..who is the person I've been communicating most with..
Also I've seen that Steve Katz Prevost Trader website seems to be active again...You can see busses there again..
Hugs Always Viv...



Viv, there are two addresses shown above. Send to both.

JIM

[Journeyone144]

Morning People,
I finally have a letter back from the Fl. Dept of Safety & Motor Vehicles..and I can't post a copied and Pasted copy of it here so I'll just type the wording used and the Complaint Number they gave me.
This is all new stuff to me...any advice most welcome...I have no lawyer and don't know what type to go to..You were certainly right when I first told you about this incident and you said it didn't sound right to you...in several different cliche ways...and even my PNC Bank was trusting...I AM calling them as soon as I send this e-mail...
At least I know something is happening now after I sent the Fl. Atty.Gen and this Dept of Motor Vehicles each 18 pages of information last month..every e-mail between me and Steve Katz and my own testimony of our phone conversations..
Hugs Always Viv...

************************************************** *****
Dated 1-27-09 Re: Prevost Trader Stephen Katz
Dear Ms.McGraw Complaint # 16127
We have received the complaint you filed against the above referenced business and individual. Since the business and individual are not a licensed dealer in the Stae of Florida we have opened an investigation to look into their unlicensed activity for the sale of motor homes. Because the dealer is not licesnsed in the State of Florida we suggest you consult with an attorney to persue the possibility of a civil action to satisfy your complaint.

We have assigned our investigation to Compliance Examiner Tim Tobin..Any Correspondence, inquiries, or new developments affecting the outcome of this complaint should be directed to the investigator noted below..The Examiner will contact you..

If we can be of further assistance, pleae feel free to contact this office..

Sincerely Sara E. Lambert
Complaint Cordinator
Div.of Motor Vehicles
323 10th Ave.West, Suite 200
Palmetto, Fl. 34221
941-723-4551
************************************************** ***


Thank You Jim, and Dale..

Also I've seen that Steve Katz Prevost Trader website seems to be active Hugs Always Viv...

[garyde]

What they are saying is , sorry , we can't help you get your money back, if we can find him, we may slap his hand!

[Journeyone144]

Oh My Gosh.........
And everyone was so sure Florida would be on my side...
Hugs Viv..



What they are saying is , sorry , we can't help you get your money back, if we can find him, we may slap his hand!

[Joe Cannarozzi]

You should have bought that 91CC for 50,000.

Now that the loans have dried up you may not even qualify any more.

[0533]

Viv, instead of buying a Prevost bus, how about spending your time looking for a man who owns a Prevost bus and marry him, this way you get a "Two For" save the money let someone else spend his.

PS> I am already married or I would call you.

[flyu2there]

Viv,

Your first stop should be your local Legal Aid, should be in the phonebook. Local attorneys often donate time pro bono (for free) to pass out basic forms of advice to people just like you. You will get a pretty good idea on what can be done to retreive your 5000.00.

Hiring an attorney in Florida thence seeking a civil remedy may work for you however I think that you can expect the up front costs involved to be high, probably higher than the amount of your loss. First, you have to find Mr. Katz, then you have to get him served; this alone can be difficult, especially one who lives in a post office box. Then, if you can get him into court and should you prevail, there is the matter of collecting the judgement which would probably include the amount of your loss, court costs and attorney fee's; sometimes they are difficult to collect. Another item that may be worrisome is based on the term damages; many attorneys will seek to collect damages on your behalf, your pain and suffering. These tend to be mitigated by many courts. This could be a long and drawn out procedure and it could be months before you even get onto the calendar.

Perhaps a better alternative for you would be small claims court; however, you will still have to travel to Florida and be present for the hearing. Even with proper service, there is a better than even chance that Mr. Katz will not show up and you will be awarded a judgement for the amount of your loss up to the ceiling of the court, plus court/service fees. I doubt that they will award for your travel time and expenses whilst in Fla.


Hope this helps a little!:D

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Getting a judgment is meaningless unless you intend to spend even more money than you spent getting it. A person who doesn't want to pay a judgment will not do so unless you can get some way of attaching a lien against assets he intends to sell in the near future. If he is operating as a corporate entity it is a waste of time.

[0533]

Here are some websites that might help:

http://www.flcourts.org/gen_public/family/self_help/smallclaims.shtml

http://www.circuit8.org/sc/

[flyu2there]

Getting a judgment is meaningless unless you intend to spend even more money than you spent getting it. A person who doesn't want to pay a judgment will not do so unless you can get some way of attaching a lien against assets he intends to sell in the near future. If he is operating as a corporate entity it is a waste of time.

Jon,

Exactly! Many people do not understand this, they often feel just because they prevailed in court.....................

What I was trying to point out to Viv is that even getting the judgement, by the cheapest of means, is expensive and time consuming much less attempting to collect same. I bet a months salary Mr. Katz knows this as well

[rickdesilva]

Since Mr. Katz was Max Naylor's agent perhaps a letter from a lawyer to Mr. Naylor attempting to get back the money may help. Perhaps if Mr. Naylor knows he may be on the hook or may be defending some type of legal problem he can help get the money back from Katz.

[garyde]

In California. Small Claims court will allow Judgements up to $10,000.00 with conditions. If Florida is similar, it would cost $15-30.00 dollars to file a claim and another $70.00 to have a deputy serve.
Once you go to court and get a judgement, there are people out there in the buisness of following thru with the courts to get you paid.
Nothing is easy, but the guy should be held accountable in court.

[Jim Skiff]

Viv,

Here it is. Just listed this one. Very clean looking and a really nice price.

http://www.prevost-stuff.com/1985%20Prevost%20LeMirage%20For%20Sale%20NRUSSELL. htm

Jim

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Very nice. It looks like a Marathon from the front but only a guess.

She will not like it, the bed is north and south.

It has OTR a/c but the bays are odd???? Front one is HUGE and next one back is tiny.

[Jim Skiff]

Darn Joe,

I forgot about that Feng Shui! :eek:

Jim

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Who is the converter? It is a nice change to be able to see out of the upper front windows on an XL. She is a H-3 wannabe.

[Jim Skiff]

Joe,

I requested that from the sellers and they will get back to me.

Jim

[Journeyone144]

AAAAhhhh Jim, And All,

I really appreciate your posts..and I looked at it Jim..but there are two reasons why it's not for me..Joe C. knew it's the bedrm. being N & S..but even moreso because they tell me sometimes the bed can be changed but costs too much because of needing the closets, dresser shelf, and drawer space under across the back..that's the only reason I look for the E & W bedrm..

But most of all.. after seeing the H3..I'd bet this is just as high..It just has the XL straight front..I know now..No Way..!!!LOL..At least not by myself.. I shake in my boots when I even remember that beauty..But for that height I'd be in Paradise now..It was sooo beautiful..

Good to see ya all..I've been soooo down..These posts were a real pick me up..Thank you so much..

I've had a phone call about the investigation by the Motor Vehicle Dept. in Fl..and the assigned investigator, Billy Rankin told me to get a lawyer..They cannot get an answer from the address for Steve Katz in Fl.that he responds to besides the Website Phone #..All we had were wrong except his home in Naples..Billy said he'd talked to him at the Website number but got no where..Didn't tell me the conversation..except he's not been at his home in Naples for months, all mail was returned, and it's up for sale..and they believe he's operating from another state..but he did say they WANT to get him and will not close the case..

Can anyone tell me where to look for an Atty.? What type.? I need to start somewhere..All so new to me..It's Naieve I am..Learn as I go..I don't think I'd be this far without the help of so many here..

And believe me my desire for my bus will never dim..but I just can't settle after looking so long and so hard..I will live in it while my house sells..and I'm pretty sure I have the place I would like to move to in Fl. in Ft.McCoy..

I'll be going to Fl. soon as the NJ weather lets me travel in the Dolphin..and I may buy the property in Fl..first now and put the house on the Mkt. before I even find the bus..I'm so determined but I've been waiting to find the bus first..moneywise..in case I couldn't buy both before the house sold.. I want the bus so much more..

Warm Hugs Always Love Viv...


Viv,

Here it is. Just listed this one. Very clean looking and a really nice price.

http://www.prevost-stuff.com/1985%20Prevost%20LeMirage%20For%20Sale%20NRUSSELL. htm

Jim

[Journeyone144]

Hi Gary D,
I will call the Small Claims Court here in NJ and see what they tell me..I'm not sure if I have to go to Fl. or NJ even..They may tell me what type Att. I need..I imagine NJ and Fl might both be different from Ca..just guessing..
Big Hugs Viv...



In California. Small Claims court will allow Judgements up to $10,000.00 with conditions. If Florida is similar, it would cost $15-30.00 dollars to file a claim and another $70.00 to have a deputy serve.
Once you go to court and get a judgement, there are people out there in the buisness of following thru with the courts to get you paid.
Nothing is easy, but the guy should be held accountable in court.

[Journeyone144]

Hey Joe,
I sure don't want to see out those upper windows...!!! You look for me..smile..
I agree 100% it is a an H3 just before it's time..I see it on others too..
Hugs Viv..


Who is the converter? It is a nice change to be able to see out of the upper front windows on an XL. She is a H-3 wannabe.

[Journeyone144]

Helloooo Pam & Bruce,

I've been hoping to meet Mr. Right for 11 yrs..and as time passed I lost most of that hope but you never know.. Stranger things have happened..I really don't want some one to support me..I'd like to share if he wanted to buy one with me.. I can't get married..lose tooo much..Uncle Sam made sure of that..

I don't think I look as good as the pic I have up here but I can't change it to a later one..It was good when I put it up..but remember wrinkles don't show as much in pics either..and time wasted being depressed isn't doing me any good..Can't wait 'til the temps in NJ hit 60 and stay there so I can get down to Fl..

Love to see your bus..go home and cry..Gosh Beautiful but I don't know the floor plan so I wouldn't envy you...unless...smile...

Hugs Viv...




Viv, instead of buying a Prevost bus, how about spending your time looking for a man who owns a Prevost bus and marry him, this way you get a "Two For" save the money let someone else spend his.

PS> I am already married or I would call you.

[Journeyone144]

Hi flyu2there,

I just found your Msg. about the 92 Mr. Oliver still has in Princeton, Tx..It's laid out all wrong for me or I'd have been talking to Paul Davis about it for sure..BUT..Paul also has the Perfect Coach..the 96 XL has everything but he is asking 175K..won't take less than 160K and I can't afford that high..I've offered him everything I have to trade plus 100K and he hasn't answered my e-mail about it sent 3 days ago..so I guess that means NO..

I look every day and go there and pine for that coach..It has everything Nax Naylor's H3 in Pa has..everything..!! even the small counter/cabinet opposite the kitchen with the stove in it and micro OH..which I've only seen in a very few coaches, never expected I might get that..but it's a normal XL..lower than the H3..but it's also a 96 and brings more dollars..worth it too..

If I could only find an 89..or 90..like it...Liberty did make the same floor plan back then..I have never seen any coach I wanted more..Even the Color scheme in this one is better than Max's to me..Softer & Brighter..OOOHHH

Believe me I have learned about what's in them all..even the 2009's..I look at...like I always did the higher ends for improving my RV's..with some little amenity..love doing it..

I have a small chandelier in my Dolphin that came out of a Prevost...smile..

I copied your suggestions and am going to call the Legal Aid and Sm. Claims Cts. tomorrow..

Thank you sooo much for everything...

Warm Hugs Love Viv..




Viv,

Your first stop should be your local Legal Aid, should be in the phonebook. Local attorneys often donate time pro bono (for free) to pass out basic forms of advice to people just like you. You will get a pretty good idea on what can be done to retreive your 5000.00.

Hope this helps a little!:D

[Journeyone144]

Hi Gary, All,
I called Legal Aid and they are having an atty. call me back..so I'll wait to call small claims court..

Below is all the Newest

Steve Katz Information...I have managed to acquire today via Phone call from Tom Tobin..

Owns home that is for sale via "Earl Weber Real Estate" Phone 239-218-9580
Home is Located at... The Forest Gated Community in Fort Meyers Fl..
Street address of said home is: 16530 Kimber Lakes Dr. zip 33908

Tom Tobin a Florida Motor Vehicles Investigator just called me on the phone a moment ago...
Saying in essence...there is nothing more this Dept. can do in my behalf because the man
is not licensed to sell Motor Vehicles in Fl..and has no physical address where he is selling any..

Tom Tobin advised me to go to small claims court and ask for a judgement against this
home or any paid for vehicle that Steve Katz may own..He says the authorities would sieze such a vehicle and Steve could not sell his house until he paid the judgement...

Tom Tobin also agreed with you all here that any other way to go would only end up costing me many more
dollars and I might still never retrieve my 5,000.00 deposit...

Steve Katz did tell the Motor Vehicle Dept. over the phone that he will not return my deposit but admitted he did receive it...

This is all I know after talking just now to Tom Tobin the Investigator...
and it's pretty much exactly as you all expected it to be...
I will do what I can with whatever advice I get from the Atty. Legal Aid is having call me...

Warm Hugs Always Viv...

[garyde]

Viv. You had better get on it with the small claims suit. It takes a month or so after he is served to get into court. Once you win, if you win, you have to petition the court for a defacto judgement. Once this is done, you have to record the judgement. Once you record the judgement, you have to then get a lein on his property. And so on.

[Journeyone144]

I Hear You Gary,
And what doesn't make it sound good with Small Claims Ct. is noone having an address for him and I believe those charges have to be served in person...and no way they can do that without a valid address...Seems to me he may have had practice in this kind of fraud previously...I may well have to learn a bitter lesson...
I still have to try...I sent two e-mails to people who deal with Max Naylor and I got replies with an e-mail address for him as well as a phone number so I did write a letter to Max and explained what Steve has done just in case he doesn't know...He may or may not...
Hugs Always Viv...




Viv. You had better get on it with the small claims suit. It takes a month or so after he is served to get into court. Once you win, if you win, you have to petition the court for a defacto judgement. Once this is done, you have to record the judgement. Once you record the judgement, you have to then get a lein on his property. And so on.

[Darl-Wilson]

This Steve Katz scheme is likely covered under the 'Wire Fraud' statute. (http://assembler.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00001343----000-.html) "Wire fraud is a legal concept in the United States Code which provides for enhanced penalty of any criminally fraudulent activity if it is determined that the activity involved electronic communications of any kind, at any phase of the event". Viv, this guy operates, advertises, use the internet, interstate telephone, etc which should qualify this as a federal crime. You should get a lot more help from the Feds (http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx) and as a "Senior" than you will from a local DA with only legal authority within his jursidiction, like a city, county or state. You can also ask where to go to file a complaint for 'Crimes against Seniors'.

Finally, using that tact now that the Dems are in control might be better than a few month ago. They promised lots of help for Seniors. Get them to live up to those promises. (New bill signed by President Obama on 2-17) (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/ovc/welcome.html)

Darl

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I think someone with better computer skills than I have should find this guys email address and send him copies of Darl's "how-to" on getting federal agents to knock on this guys door.

If it was me I would return double the money I stole just to avoid the legal costs of defending myself, plus avoiding the risk of a little time in a federal prison.

Good advice Darl.

[Darl-Wilson]

Steve Katz...

Registrant:
Naples Coach, LLC

16530 Timberlakes Dr
Ft Myers, Florida 33908
United States

Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (http://www.godaddy.com)
Domain Name: PREVOSTTRADER.COM
Created on: 22-Jun-04
Expires on: 22-Jun-09
Last Updated on: 22-Jun-08

Administrative Contact:
Katz, Steve skatz260@comcast.net
Naples Coach, LLC
16530 Timberlakes Dr
Ft Myers, Florida 33908
United States
(239) 229-8207 Fax -- (239) 489-9950

Technical Contact:
Katz, Steve skatz260@comcast.net
Naples Coach, LLC
16530 Timberlakes Dr
Ft Myers, Florida 33908
United States
(239) 229-8207 Fax -- (239) 489-9950

Domain servers in listed order:
A.DNSVR.COM
B.DNSVR.COM


Registry Status: clientDeleteProhibited
Registry Status: clientRenewProhibited
Registry Status: clientTransferProhibited
Registry Status: clientUpdateProhibited


See Underlying Registry Data
Report Invalid Whois

[Jon Wehrenberg]

OK,

Is ther any way someone can send him copies of the appropriate posts along with some advice on how a POG membership is going to start working to towards seeing that Viv prevails? Can Skiffer make him a one day member to read this?

Guys whose last name ended in a vowel found out a long time ago their way was more efficient than the courts, so maybe a little suggestion in that regard. After all we got Rick and Joe and they come from Joisey and Chicago. If the feds don't scare him maybe the boyz from Joisey or the Windy will.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Viv, go to the FBI with this, I think they would be very interested to hear what you have to tell them.

JIM

[phorner]

This guy needs what we used to refer to in NJ as a "tune up".......

[Will Garner]

Jim,

I think the FBI is tied up right now trying to find a candidate that can pass the "vetting" process to become Commerce Secretary. I won't be surprised when that person turns out to be our man, Steve Katz. How about getting a POG caravan ready to drive on Washington just in case that fairy tale turns out to be true!

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Well then, Viv, you go to your state senator and tell all the media people what happened and get them on your side. Make a big issue out of it.
Do you have one of those citizens hot lines in your area?
You have all the data. Spread it around and make a big public issue of it.
Don't give up.
Go for the lien on the house, make Katz life as miserable as you can!!!!!!!

JIM

[flyu2there]

Guys,

The FBI is not interested in civil matters such as this.....sorry but that is the truth. Senators and Congressmen are not interested either, unless Viv is and has been a big contributor to campaigns....... Absolutely she can call them but she is not going to like what she hears!

Truth is, this is a Civil Matter. None of us know what transpired between Viv and Dr. Katz, do not know if there was a written agreement, do not know what was said or what was agreed to. I think most of us do not know Dr. Katz from Adam, don't know if he is a crook or an honest guy. The only way, and the way that is fair to both parties, is to resolve this in a Court of Law!

Viv, the only way this can be resolved in a cost effective and timely manner is to take Dr. Katz to Court and, as recommended, Small Claims is your best vehicle. Should you prevail you will garner a summary judgement against Dr. Katz and that too has been previously discussed; I would suspect that you would receive an immediate refund, once again, should you prevail. A word of caution here, have all documents available...he said, she said will not make the team! You will need written documentation to support your claim, both from you and Dr. Katz. Emotional pleas do not make the team, have all of the details available and be well prepared.

All the best,

John

[Darl-Wilson]

Here is Steve and wife's real name.
KATZ, STEPHEN B & FRANCINE

The address is TIMBERLAKES not Kimberlake!

This is the picture of SawDustMan's find on Steve Katz's wifes business (http://maps.google.com/maps?rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGLJ_en&q=16454+Timberlakes+Dr,+Fort+Myers,+FL+33908-4379&um=1&ie=UTF-8&split=0&gl=us&ei=wvqhSdugM5qqtQPri7jdCQ&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&resnum=1&ct=title). I couldn't find them on title to this building or any of their associates so I'll assume they are renting. This is a condo building.
16454 Timberlakes Dr, Fort Myers, FL 33908




Home is listed as being in The Forest and has been discounted 100 k to $399,000.


16530 TIMBERLAKES DR FORT MYERS FL 33908 (http://www.alexa.com/data/details?url=www.prevosttrader.com&amzn_id=rvcoachnetwor-20) Note that the link shows "Naples Coach" This is noted on his website by his picture that "Steve comes to us from Naples Coach" Hmmm. Now that we have them on title to the Timberlakes property (http://www.leetc.com/search_detail.asp?account=01462404000120010&SearchType=RP&TaxYear=2008)we can be pretty much assured that he and Fran are FL residents. I want to know why the FL DMV is unwilling to go after him for selling vehicles without a license and comiting fraud. At 1st they told Viv that he wasn't licensed so they couldn't pursue him. What the hell do state agencies do with unlicensed businesses? It looks like in the State of Florida they don't do anything because they are unlicensed. Sounds like a place ripe for me to move my mortgage company!

Tax Collector for Lee County, FL Note, no taxes due. (http://www.leetc.com/search_detail.asp?SearchType=RP&TaxYear=2008&Account=01462404000120010&Option=HISTORY) Must have been paid with Viv's deposit. Taxes were $3,772.39 for 2008



All the information below is FYI in case someone living this area might be familiar with any of these players. People living at this address; Stephen B. Katz, Francine M. Katz, and Marc Halpern.
Florida companies listed at this address: Halpern Associates. Inc. an inactive Foreign-for-profit created on 7-28-95. Marc Halpern is President. He is 67 years old and has lived in Nyack, NY and Pompano, FL Mary Williams is listed as an officer of this company. Mary William is also shown as having a company at this address but it is likely that she is listed solely because she is an officer of Halpern.

Roberto's Gourmet Coffee and Yogurt, Inc is the other company listed at this address. Direstors are Stephern B. and Francine M. Katz. Dennis J. Lumsden is the registered Agent for this inactive domestic-for-profit corp that was incorporated on 8-31-1998. Not listed at this address is another ol' Steve company and maybe his son. (http://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/Fort-Myers/Stephen-B-Katz-p5107404.aspx)

John is right, the FBI, the CIA, and a bunch of those other agencies are busy with protecting to country and lots of irritating politicians BUT there are agencies out there that will take up your cause Viv. Some are brand new and some are little known. If you are persistent you might prevail. Spending money to hire an attorney is only going to reward the attorney. We have spent a lot of time gathering up some evidence that this guy if less than honest. What you do with it is up to you. You have most of the sites and agencies that are likely to help you.

I think most of us have grown weary of this project but if you want to pursue this guy some of us will probably help you as best we can. It's up to you to head in the right direction and to stay focused.

Good luck,

Darl

[Joe Cannarozzi]

You mean either it will kill you or make you stronger:rolleyes:

[Journeyone144]

Hello Everyone,

There's just no way I can begin to tell you all how I feel...

I've been cheated too many times since I've been making my own decisions...I thought I'd wized up until I saw that Prevost and knew I could buy it...so desperate to get it I let PNC Bank send the money to Steve before I saw it..sooo sure I'd be driving it home and I would have if not for that height...and Steve should have given me back the money...I signed nothing but the authorization for PNC to send it to him...He made the statement he wrote sound like I'd bought it and I had to sign it or the bank would not have sent him the 5K..when I actually hadn't..and he knew it..but because I didn't have an agreement in writing that the money was refundable even a Judge might hold me to what he wrote and I signed..It is debateable..BUT..

Because of all the trouble Darl and all of you are going thru' for someone none of you have ever even met in person..I will send the information you've given me here to everyone I can find who might listen and be able to help get it back..as well as bring Steve Katz to justice..You deserve it more than me..

Darl especially you have had to have done a lot of searching to find out all the information you have about Steve..I can't just let that go without doing everything in my own power to right this wrong..and try to make it all worthwhile..

I've always been a fighter for right..but I've run into some other things I tried very, very hard to right and got no place...

My Credit is ruined over 7,000K that Chase Bank claims I borrowed from them via a Credit Card they issued in my name that I never applied for or ever even saw..For over a year they called my phone number between 15 & 20 times a day..I was near distraction when the calls finally stopped after I sent them not one but two affadavits swearing I'd never borrowed any money from them...It was out and out Idenity Theft..and it's believed that my vital information was taken from the highly publicised Laptop AT&T had Stolen from one of their employees..and I am a reciepient of my husband's AT&T Pension & whose info was on that Laptop..I fought that and it's still not taken off my Credit Rating..

Now this happens..I wish I could just look for my bus...but most of the heart has gone out of me..especially since I have water system problems with my Dolphin that have kept me home all this winter..They can't get the parts to fix it..I feel sooo defeated..but I am so overwhelmed at the pouring out of the goodness of all you people I just can't let all you've done be for nothing...not without doing everything I can to stop Steve Katz from very likely hurting even more people...

I could tell you of even more incidents during the past 11 yrs. but it would do no one any good...they were my own fault..

To say Thank you to you all again is a useless phrase now...it just doesn't do it..!!
But please know I wish someone would invent a new word for it...
You just can't imagine how much I hope I'll get to meet you all one day..and how sorry I am for the whole mess..

Love Viv...



Here is Steve and wife's real name.
KATZ, STEPHEN B & FRANCINE

The address is TIMBERLAKES not Kimberlake!

I think most of us have grown weary of this project but if you want to pursue this guy some of us will probably help you as best we can. It's up to you to head in the right direction and to stay focused.

Good luck,

Darl

[Journeyone144]

Dear Jim & All,

This brings you up to date on what's happening in my life...

Fl. State Att. Gen. has set up a "Seniors vs Crime" Dept..and I have given them all the info I have as well as called my own State Senator's office and they told me to continue with the Florida help first...

Also what you don't know is that I had Cashed in the balance of my husband's IRA left to me when he died...The bank told me I would have to pay about 4,000. Income Tax on that 72,000...so I was prepared for that..but when I went to my Tax Preparer and she told me it wasn't 4,000 but instead 18,000...I near fainted...

I about gave up all hope of getting a Prevost...but maybe I just got a reprieve..!!! .My local PNC Bank in Brick, NJ...approved a 50,000 equity loan on my house...at under 4%...150.00 mo. payment...I haven't taken that yet...but I might have a 94 Prevost bus in Fl..for 115,000...I just wrote the owner tonight and told him I could take it now..and am waiting for his reply...

Afraid to get too excited...but had to tell you guys...had to tell someone...!!!
I'm really apprehensive about it after sooo many disappointments...but I just can't give up...

Here is the bus...I haven't talked to the place where he has it listed because I talked to him when he first put it up on Prevost Stuff...even before he listed it with www.floridaluxurycoach.com
so he might save the dealer fee because of that...I hope that happens for him.. He and his wife just had a brand new baby..below is a copy of his message to me...about price..
His name is Donnie Vucinovic
----- Original Message -----
From: dvucinovic@aim.com
To: journeyone@comcast.net
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 12:27 AM
Subject: Re: 1994 Prevost Liberty / Prevost-stuff

VIVIAN,

SORRY FOR THE DELAY, MY WIFE AND I HAD A BABY GIRL TODAY.. I'M GONNA BE SHORT AND SWEET ONLY BECAUSE I AM BEAT.. I COULD POSSIBLY DO 115K IF THAT WOULD WORK, BUT THAT'S GONNA BE A STRETCH..

LET ME KNOW AND I WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

DONNIE V
************************************************** **
-----Original Message-----
From: Vivian A. McGraw <journeyone@comcast.net>
To: dvucinovic@aim.com
Sent: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 9:42 pm
Subject: 1994 Prevost Liberty / Prevost-stuff
*************************************************
You can see I've known about this bus for almost two months...but never thought I could get it...I'm so glad now that I save the info on all the busses I see and wish I could afford..Smile...I'm really scared of a new monkey wrench getting caught in the works...This one even has colors I'd choose.. that makes me more scared...Go see it here..
and please someone reassure me that it's just an XL not an XL11 ...I know it's not an H3...Thank Goodness...

http://www.floridaluxurycoach.com/pocoach/entries.php?comments=147

HAPPY EASTER TO YOU ALL...

Warm Hugs Always Viv...



Well then, Viv, you go to your state senator and tell all the media people what happened and get them on your side. Make a big issue out of it.
Do you have one of those citizens hot lines in your area?
You have all the data. Spread it around and make a big public issue of it.
Don't give up.
Go for the lien on the house, make Katz life as miserable as you can!!!!!!!

JIM

[Will Garner]

Vivian,

Yup, it's a 40 foot XL. This is the lowest "overhead" you will find.

[dalej]

Good grief, are bus's really this cheep?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I don't know if they are cheap or not.

For example any of us that has purchased a bus prior to the collapse in pricing that started a year or two ago has seen the resale value of our coaches drop significantly. But so has the value of every other bus (except those owned by people who missed the memo about low prices).

That situation has created a possible problem. When your bus has a relatively high value (compared to what you paid for it) it is easy justifying an expenditure to maintain it, refurbish it, repaint it, etc. But when its value drops significantly does that mean the owner will just drive the hell out of it and not spend money to keep things current?

The bus value has dropped, but that does not mean the cost to maintain or repair or refurbish it has not. In fact relative to the value of the bus, those things have jumped significantly. If a person had a coach worth $300,000 it might be easy to rationalize spending $15,000 to do some serious repairs on an engine that is showing signs of serious problems. But as we have seen some values have fallen so significantly, that the $300,000 coach is now worth $150,000, at which point the owner may just decide to sell the coach rather than spending 10% of its total value just to fix something that may go undetected in a sale.

I'll wager there is a lot of deferred maintenance going on right now because not only have bus values dropped, but the owners are also poorer due to the economy.

If I were to buy a cheap bus right now I would be all over it so I knew exactly what its condition was before a penny changed hands. As to the value of my coach, who cares? When we bought it it was not with the intent to trade up. It was to be a coach we would own a long time, and therefore would maintain with that thought in mind. My coach and many others have dropped in value, but I still intend to maintain it and as it becomes time to change the flooring or reupholster the furniture we will do that even though proportional to the coach value those upgrades will make less sense.

If I were to buy a coach right now I would find the best coach for the total money, meaning I would pay more for a coach that needs nothing, or a lot less for one that needs some work so my total cost is in line with the market. I have seen some coaches you would not be able to give me. I have also seen some coaches that were bought for so little it makes me wonder why anyone would even consider a new coach.

[dalej]

You know I guess it's all relative. I'm probably just jealous, I would love to be a first time bus shopper at this time and know what I know about these bus's.

You made good points Jon, good value or a good price, you don't know unless you pick that bus apart.

Lets say we start a POG bus buyers service, or BBS you pay $5,000 you get 3 guys to come to the bus that your going to buy, fine tooth comb the bus and give you a list of the items that will need attention. The three guys will converse and let you know if it's a good purchase at the agreed on sale price.

[flyu2there]

Viv,

Aside from what Jon mentioned, take a close look at that second mortgage offer. I would make certain that 4% is not a teaser rate for 12-18 months or that it is not loaded somewhere with points and fee's. 4% 2nd money is very low ......................

Also you may consider rolling over that cashed in IRA, you have some time to do that and it probably would save you some $$$; go to a CPA not H and R Block.

John

[Journeyone144]

----- Original Message -----
From: DVucinovic
To: Vivian A. McGraw
Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: 1994 Prevost Liberty / Prevost-stuff


VIVIAN,

COME ON DOWN AND PICK UP YOUR 1994 LIBERTY FOR 115,000. BUT I AM FLORIDA LUXURY COACH. I WILL HOLD THE COACH FOR YOU TIL TUESDAY WITH NO DEPOSIT, JUST ON YOUR WORD....DOES THIS WORK FOR YOU?

DONNIE V




Viv,

Aside from what Jon mentioned, take a close look at that second mortgage offer. I would make certain that 4% is not a teaser rate for 12-18 months or that it is not loaded somewhere with points and fee's. 4% 2nd money is very low ......................


John

[garyde]

Hi Viv. Do not pay any money until you have the Coach inspected by a 3rd party.

[Journeyone144]

And it never rains but it pours is really true...

E-Bay also has a bus I could have for 86,000...and it's located in Piedmont S.C.. So I could go some miles off I-95 on my way to Fl..and see this one too..If I could buy the one in S.C..I wouldn't have to take the money from the Bank..

Also it isn't a second Mortgage I'd be taking...I own my house outright the past 11 yrs...

And Jon as usual is so right about maintenance...but at least I hope I'd be able to find it for a prevost...I've had to spend all winter at home because I can't find anyone who can fix the Dolphin Water System Manifold...and how could I even think of asking a Prevost owner like Joe C. to bother with a gas engine RV...which I bet he could have fixed in a heartbeat...

If I get enough help in not making a bad choice in a Prevost I'll be getting much more than I deserve...after all the trouble I've put so many of you to already..

If I get a bus that needs repair except one that keeps me from driving it a little...I would be glad to do the repairs a little at a time to get the cheapest one and not owe the bank a payment the rest of my life...or until my house sells...I do have it in writing that I will pay no Pre-Pay Penalty for paying the loan off anytime I can...and I'll try to make real sure the payment can't be changed...before I touch a dime of that 50,000 from PNC...

I like the one for 115 in Fl. better than the one in S.C. for 86 but I would buy the one that needed the least repair..both have the floor plan I've been looking so hard for..except that the one for 86 is dark wood...Below is the URL for the one in S.C..but I'm concerned about the height of this one until I'm sure it's an XL ...I don't know what "Model: Prevost Liberty 8V-92" means...I think it means the year it was actually built and engine size but not sure.. What I want to be sure of first is it higher than an XL..?? Smile ...I know I have a lot yet to learn..and I'm trying not to make a mistake..

This long winter alone hasn't done me one bit of good...I can't wait to back the Dolphin out the driveway by Monday so please write me back with any advice as soon as you read this...I am going to leave Monday...maybe even tomorrow..

Joe C., if you see this will you please call me...732-458-3480 or anyone else who wants to...

Jon, I know you're right but I have to make a decision..and with my Faith I don't think it could have come at a better time..I never had two at once to choose between before..They're both only two states apart and I'll try to see them both before I make any decision...I'd be happy to pay for some one to look at one of them...at least..either one...

Hey I have the biggest real live headache I've ever had in my life...in every way...Smile... Here I am again ...So Close and Yet So Far...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130299135088&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1123&viewitem=

Hugs Always Viv...




Good grief, are bus's really this cheep?

[ajducote]

Viv,

If you look at the coach at floridaluxurycoach (http://www.floridaluxurycoach.com/) and you think you might want to buy it, then please walk right across the parking lot to Excalibur Coach and talk to Doug the owner of Excalibur. He is very knowledgeable of the Prevost chassis and most conversions. His hourly rate was about $90 an hour if a I remember correctly. I had work done by his outfit last June and I was very satisfied with the service. It would be well worth $300 to $500 dollars to have Doug give the bus a good inspection and then give you a list of his recommendations. It will be the best money you spend. Especially if the list he gives you is long and expensive. Better to find out before you sign on the dotted line.

[rahangman]

With all of the proffering of help and suggestions, has anyone thought about whatever contract or arrangement this Katz guy had with the actual owner of the bus? Perhaps, our friend who is being bilked has some leeway with the owner of the coach in getting back her $5K. If not, perhaps as one person put it, she has a "downpayment" on a parcel/property and if this is the case, how could it be sold to anyone else? Sounds like a sort of bigamy? Or, if it is sold to someone else (or at least offered) with any sort of deposit being held for an "authorized by owner" entity, would not the actual owner have to clear any claims on the bus e.g. $5000.00 for a deposit? Hmmmmmmm

[Joe Cannarozzi]

The saga continues.

Now she has found 2 Libertys 1 year apart and 30 grand apart.

A quick look at the 85000 one uncovered a OTR a/c system that someone switched from r-12 to 134a and it is currently inop. That right there could cost plenty. We spent 6 grand on ours. It also is a repo. It looks kept up but the old records are probably gone for sure being a repo.

For a guy like me I think even with all that said if all else equal I would certainly not rule it out.

[flyu2there]

Although the coach on E-Bay appears to have been detailed and looks pretty good from 20 feet or so................

What went on inside? That sofa looks like there was a shooting with a less than favorable outcome for the two victims. Even got down onto the carpet by the driver and you know the detailer attempted to clean it. Add 1 sofa, and new carpets!

What's the telephone book covering up? Why all the smell good sachets inside? The light is on inside the refer yet the micro-wave cover is blank.
Add 1 microwave. What is the bedspread doing in the closet? Victim number 3? Add a mattress and new bed spread.

No visible wear on the carpet across from the questionable couch, sofa number two removed? Add I sofa or something other than the spare dining table chairs and an occasional table fresh from Big Lots!

Permanent stain on toilet, also bathroom sink, drain covered in calcium. Add Corian work, new drain, probably galley as well. Covers for sink and stove?
Stains on dining room chairs. Add new cushions, possibly covers.

Outside, whats the series 60 sign covering up? Repair dent or hole.
Agree with Joe, R-134 note appears to be done in Lip Stick. Mirrors operaing sans chrome, probably on glass as well. Add two mirrors.

Where are the 3 heat pumps on the roof they claim? They admit a number of defects in their description. Probably an ok coach for someone who is a decent mechanic, has lots of spare time and money.

[truk4u]

Viv,

The XL's are basically the same right up until 2000 and they will either be an XL (40') or an XLV (45'). Both you are looking at are 40' XL's. The 8V92 is the Detroit engine and was phased out of the buses around 1995.

I'll bet money that 94 Liberty on e-bay will get the price bumped way up by the auction end or they will pull the plug if the bid's aren't high enough and claim it's sold locally.

[lewpopp]

Well Viv,.....I hesitate to get into this can of worms and so help me someone knock some sense into my head, but.....I have a 90 Marathon that has no hidden secrets. A lot has been done over the 7 years I have owned it. Just 4 days ago I had Detroit go over it. They drained the tranny and refreshed the fluid and filter. Flushed the Radiator and installed fresh coolant.

I could go on and on. If you are coming to Florida, take a little side trip to Port St Lucie and look at a pristine coach. I know you'll love it and it's a peach. Pictures on request.

I have not offered it up for sale but I am about to. If I would get over this parcemonity on offering on houses, maybe someone would accept one.

[Journeyone144]

I Sure Don't Blame You Lew,
I just got home last night..Took a Greyhound in case I bought it..Didn't want to pull my tow car with a new to me coach 3' longer than I've driven in 26 yrs..
I saw a lot that you noticed too..Knew there had been a sofa where the Big Lot's chairs were stuck in there..Overall it looked pretty clean and good on the surface..but the bed was a rock..and the mattress thicker than any I've ever seen in any coach..I would have to have had a step to get up onto it daily..or buy a new one..

Most of all it had the Mirrored Ceiling..I thought that would be okay in an XL.. Not so high...but it made no difference to me..I think it's a raised roof anyway..It's the biggest NO NO I ever encountered..I can't handle it..Bob at Karolina Koach suggested painting it..!! LOL

My Cell phone didn't work, Joe..and I can't talk on reg. phones..Hearing aids Whistle.. I left the Charger home..I packed and was on the bus in an hour Easter Sunday..1:00 P.M. to make the connections and be to S.C. by 8:00 A.M. Monday..arrived Greenville, S.C. 10:15 A.M. Got Cab to Piedmont at about 1:00 P.M.from there closest stop to Piedmont..14 miles..Changed busses 4 times and waited several hours twice..

Now hear this..Bob at K.K. had a man drive me to a Motel 8..about Noon and I was to go back the next day after resting up..I was dead tired..
Turns out the man was a local and no part of K.K...He offered to take me to another dealer to look at a Pre there.."Porters"..He didn't know the year..It was a 96 Liberty with mirrors and too expensive..John, his name, took me to lunch and told me all the busses at K.K. come from a nearby Auction..told me about the family of K.K..Mother inherited money & set two sons up in business by building a fancy big Showroom..etc..Forgot my Camera too..!!!

I left home as fast as I did to go there because the one brother who I never met told me he would not hold the bus 'til Tues. if I didn't give him a 500.00 Dep. NON REFUNDABLE..Need I tell you my reaction to that..?? So I was out of here STAT..I really hoped to get it..

After all I learned about K.K. I took a cab back to the Bus Term. in Greenville the next morning..Never went back to K.K...

All the way home I wondered how I was going to tell you all that I'd given up..but I'm rested now..and looking again..Much more happened that I won't go into..It's over..but I do wonder if I'm meant to have My Bus..

In a few days I'm going down to Newport News, Va. to visit my Dau. in Law. from my Son Bobby..and she will take me around there to look..

In Oct. I'll go down to Fl. and if I don't find it those two trips..or somewhere in between I believe I will come home in something else..Soo tired of looking and I still wish I'd gotten the 92 Country Coach at The Great Outdoors Dealer in Titusville..in 2006..It was the first one I drove and I just wanted to keep on going..but there again a dirty Dealer ruined the sale..by trying to get 3K more after the deal was made..He said he made a mistake in his figures..I left and he called me back when I was 200 miles up I-95 enroute to NJ..Another Mike at http://eaglespridervsales.com/
Now he too is out of business, I believe..

Warm Hugs ...Love you all...Always Viv..




Well Viv,.....I hesitate to get into this can of worms and so help me someone knock some sense into my head, but.....I have a 90 Marathon that has no hidden secrets. A lot has been done over the 7 years I have owned it. Just 4 days ago I had Detroit go over it. They drained the tranny and refreshed the fluid and filter. Flushed the Radiator and installed fresh coolant.

I could go on and on. If you are coming to Florida, take a little side trip to Port St Lucie and look at a pristine coach. I know you'll love it and it's a peach. Pictures on request.

I have not offered it up for sale but I am about to. If I would get over this parcemonity on offering on houses, maybe someone would accept one.

[Journeyone144]

Please send the pictures Lew...
Of course I want to see them..
Warm Hugs Always Viv..



Well Viv,.....I hesitate to get into this can of worms and so help me someone knock some sense into my head, but.....I have a 90 Marathon that has no hidden secrets. A lot has been done over the 7 years I have owned it. Just 4 days ago I had Detroit go over it. They drained the tranny and refreshed the fluid and filter. Flushed the Radiator and installed fresh coolant.

I could go on and on. If you are coming to Florida, take a little side trip to Port St Lucie and look at a pristine coach. I know you'll love it and it's a peach. Pictures on request.

I have not offered it up for sale but I am about to. If I would get over this parcemonity on offering on houses, maybe someone would accept one.

[Darl-Wilson]

Some folks are parsimonious and others are parcemonity. :( Others are just plain cheap!:mad:

Put me in the cheap column.;)

[flyu2there]

Viv,

Please do not take this the wrong way, it is by no means meant as hostile. First you have to ask yourself, what am I going to do with my Dolphin. Second, do I have a place to park my Prevost? Third, what will it cost me to insure the coach? Fourth, and probably the most important, what am I going to do with the coach?

The grand scheme of things will show that a mattress and how hard it may have been, is really not a concern; same for mirrored ceilings...most coaches have the mirrored ceilings. Far less than other items that could be going on with the coach, you might be looking at 3-500 dollars tops....for a very good bed and who knows about the mirrors. Also remember that you really do not care about the heritage/personality or backgrounds of the sellers as long as you are satisfied with the transaction. The 500 dollar non refundable deposit also is a non player; you already looked at the bus and, apparently made your decision. Personally I would have organized some kind of inspection of the coach to see where the real cost's may be hidden!

As Joe mentioned, that coach was so inexpensive, unless there is really something serious going on, it should have be able to meet your needs for a price that was unheard of a year ago! Also you have to ask yourself if you are you in a position to put say an additional 30K into the coach to make it your dream?

I know Joe has and others as well have offered to help you with this dream, goodness Viv, take them up on it! Do not go looking at coaches without backup....

You mentioned that you took the bus in case you drove it home....wouldn't it have been wiser to drive; you can travel at your own pace and arrive refreshed. I don't know of a dealer/seller on the planet that would let a coach go without full payment and would would certainly need proof of insurance.

John

[Journeyone144]

Hi John,
I was prepared to stay in Piedmont a bit if I wanted the coach..and I would have called Joe before I signed any papers..I've never met Joe or any of you..but I know so much about Joe I'd trust him with anything..

Just look at what he's doing with his own coach right now...He's amazing...I read all the new posts even tho' I don't have much right to talk about anything except what I'm doing myself as long as I don't own my own Prevost..I have learned soooo much here..!!!!

I can park the bus on my own property in NJ where I've always kept the Dolphin..and move the Dolphin to my daughter's property in Bayville, NJ..then I would advertise it for sale if I can't trade it..but I can't let myself be with no coach until I find one to replace it.. I've long since planned ahead for these things..

The worst thing is getting older too fast..The stress isn't doing me any good for sure..Say I've been lucky but I've never had any where near this kind of searching for moving up the ladder thru' the years..This will surely be my last coach..whatever it is..and if it weren't for the economy and my chances of really realizing my Dream..I'd have had a different coach 3 yrs. ago..and wouldn't be looking at my Dolphin sitting outside my back door all but unuseable for over a year..due to National going Belly-Up..so where the economy seems to help in one way it hurts in another..

Everyone I know tells me to take it back to Fl. where there are more mechanics who could jury rig the water system from parts they could get at Walmart..stay out of debt with the Bank..keep my cash and go..but I can't take cash in a hearse only my Stupid Dream..if even that could go with me..and when you don't feel good you lose interest in everything..I'm tired and fear is setting in for doing this alone..Once I had the courage of a wild cat but not anymore..

Hugs Always Viv
PS: Sending this fast before I change my mind...



Viv,

Please do not take this the wrong way, it is by no means meant as hostile. First you have to ask yourself, what am I going to do with my Dolphin. Second, do I have a place to park my Prevost? Third, what will it cost me to insure the coach? Fourth, and probably the most important, what am I going to do with the coach?


I know Joe has and others as well have offered to help you with this dream, goodness Viv, take them up on it! Do not go looking at coaches without backup....

.

John

[Journeyone144]

About the below comments...

I get down in the dumps sometimes like most of us do ...but I rally again and start looking every day for My Bus...I find one frequently that I'd love to have... It's just that it's always out of my price range...but I can't give up...ever...

Hugs Always Viv...


Everyone I know tells me to take it "the Dolphin" back to Fl. where there are more mechanics who could jury rig the water system from parts they could get at Walmart..stay out of debt with the Bank..keep my cash and go..but I can't take cash in a hearse only my Stupid Dream..if even that could go with me..and when you don't feel good you lose interest in everything..I'm tired and fear is setting in for doing this alone..Once I had the courage of a wild cat but not anymore..

Hugs Always Viv
PS: Sending this fast before I change my mind...

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Viv,

Since we've never gotten into the issues with the Dolphin because we were involved with your search for a Prevost, maybe this is the time to help a little with the Dolphin so it might eventually end up as a trade.

You never said what is wrong with the water system. But without ever having seen a Dolphin, much less worked on one I can say with certainty that is about the easiest part of the coach to fix unless the problem involves broken pipes. Can you elaborate on what is wrong?

The water system consists of a tank to hold water, a pump to deliver water, pipes to carry it to the faucets, and the faucets themselves.

If the pipes do not leak and the water holding tank does not leak I cannot imagine anything with a cost of more than $100 being needed to fix it. If the problem is a tank leak, they are easily repaired no matter what the tank is made of, and if the pipes are leaking as big a problem as that is, it merely involves running new pipes or repairing the existing ones.

Getting your Dolphin fixed at least allows you to travel.

[flyu2there]

Viv,

I suspect that the Dolphin used off the shelf parts for everything, including the water system. Really think that the parts are available and should be easy to find. As Jon described there are but a few parts in the system...post the symptoms and I am certain you will get a reply, probably save you a trip to FLA.

John

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Tomorrow I will be going to look at a 1990 Executive conversion for Viv.

She is pretty excited to say the least. I want to assure all I will not let her buy it unless I am confident it could reliably get her anywhere.

It looks good the owners seem very credible with its description, we will see tomorrow.

[jelmore]

I'll bet you could fix her Dolphin.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

I just looked at a 90 XL and it had electric air pressure gauges:confused::eek:

Any one have or ever seen those?

The Executive conversion was a complete turd. I would keep the tires and sell the rest as a ships anchor. The photos were not current ones.

Keep lookin Viv. If that guy fetches 67 for it mine would be worth 150000. Realistically mine may fetch 50 or 60 the one I just looked at I would be embarrassed to be in if it were given to us.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

At one time Prevost was supplying both types. of air pressure gauges. I do not know why they had both.

[flyu2there]

Viv, Joe......

Have a glance at this one, just popped up on the radar.

http://www.philcooper.com/details.php?v_id=434


John

[dalej]

Joe,

I have one of each, not sure which one was there first though. I guess I could look for wires on the manual one to see if it used to be electrical.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Dale I definatly do not like them ya turn the key off and it goes off too:confused::eek:

[Journeyone144]

Yes another possibility but I'm not getting excited this time....

Hi All,

Okay Joe...Of course I took your advice...and
I've been looking every day again since the Il. 1990 disappointment...

But this time I got an e-mail directly from an owner...via Rod Daniels a dealer on the Net like my friend Steve Katz...but this one has a lot in Arcadia...Fl...

Before I joined POG..I had had several almost's via Rod Daniels...that fell thru' for one reason or another...

Now Rod Daniels has given my e-mail to this owner...and I think I know the bus he is talking about...not sure yet til I get confirmation from the owner...

http://www.horizoncoach.com/index.cfm?go=main.inventoryView&inventory=919

You all know I've looked at least a doz. possiblilites...I am sooo tired of it all...but the last thing I want to do is make a terrible mistake...so here I am one more time...trying to keep the Faith that there really is one out there with my name on it...and wouldn't you know it's even older...an 88...but it has all I've been looking for...in floor plan that I need more than you guys know...

I know whatever I buy it's going to be my last rig...and I just cannot settle without getting the basic floor plan for many reasons you all don't know...

In Sept, or Oct. when the weather lets me I'm going back to Fl...and I mean to come home in a diff. coach...If it can't be a Prevo ...at least it will have the floor plan and be in a 40 footer...there are dozens and dozens available if I have to stay with RV's...but I don't really want any of them...

This one is plain, I can't see it has hardly any of the gingerbread I love so much but I'd have fun improving it a little at a time...

If the drive train is ok...batteries and tires at least safe...I could be happy with it...Don't forget it's a whole lot newer than the busses I used to drive every day ...and I don't move any 80 mph just going up and down the NJ, NY Turnpike anymore...I only want to cruise at 57 to 62 mph and enjoy the ride...and on country roads I love 45 mph...stopping anywhere I feel like...

Prayerfully..........Warm Hugs Always Viv...

PS: I may get the chance to drive one of the very busses I drove 30 yrs. ago....either a hi hat or fishbowl...probably 1960 something models....Several of them have been refurbished like new...I posted it but never got a single reply from anyone on POG...

OOP's Here we go again..More..Busses Only..
http://news.webshots.com/album/573159903GRqllK

************************************************** ******


I just looked at a 90 XL and it had electric air pressure gauges:confused::eek:

The photos were not current ones.

Keep lookin Viv. If that guy fetches 67 for it mine would be worth 150000. Realistically mine may fetch 50 or 60 the one I just looked at I would be embarrassed to be in if it were given to us.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Viv this bus has been for sale for 3 years I know you have had to have seen it before now:confused:

Price I believe? I do not recall the exact old asking price but it was significantly reduced I think? I could call you but would much rather have this conversation here.

[Journeyone144]

Joe,

I did see it before and would have wanted it but it was too high priced for my budget...

I'm just afraid to say or even think what your seeing it will turn up..after the one in Il...I'm just hoping for the best and trying not to get over excited ...No...No more...I'm doing a wait and see if all Don told you is true...

Rod Daniels was the very first dealer I talked to on the Net...but I won't pay a penny again until I get the Keys and Bill of Sale on the table...besides I have nothing to do with Rod Daniels now...This is directly between me and the owner...He wrote to me, not Rod...

I won't take a bus again tho.'...There's an airport in Birmingham that I'll try to get a flight to...if it's all Don says it is after you see it...I was too tired after that bus ride to SC...but I'll cross those bridges when I get to them too...

I'm just trying not to get my hopes up too much in the meantime...haha...

Hugs Always Viv...



Viv this bus has been for sale for 3 years I know you have had to have seen it before now:confused:

Price I believe? I do not recall the exact old asking price but it was significantly reduced I think? I could call you but would much rather have this conversation here.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Vivian just woke me up with a 4am with a call. She is in Birmingham Al where she has been for the last week living in and learning her new 88 American conversion and I am very happy to say we could not have led her to a better seller and bus!

Fortunatly she has decided for that first trip back to NJ she should not go it alone. I can not drag up right now as we have busnuts coming thru here for the next 3 weeks. I told her Mango and JDUB and Truk would be happy to ride with her she is waiting for your call.

She said they made her produce evidence that she was 85, they did not believe her.

[michaeldterry]

Great news! I hope she enjoys her new bus to the fullest extent possible!

[Darrell McCarley]

JOE Tell us more about Viv's new bus. Did you go to Alabama to check it out? You have been a true friend for Viv in her efforts to find the right bus.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

The limited responce to Vivs new bus is not reflective in the number of views this thread has generated. The silence is deffining

Darrell I for one never thought she would buy but I have a hard enough time reading people in person much less over the wire so my opinion on that carried little weight.

I also decided to put other steriotypical opinions aside (age) and be polite and offer sound advice and help out where I could, that was it.

She initally had me look on line at then call the owner of an 88 American Conversion.
A middle age gentlmen alot like myself. Owner opporator 54yrs old drives a Pete works on it himself, Same with the bus. After he was pretty confident I was comming down to look and I thought I had convinced him I would find almost everything he insisted the only components not working are the 2 e-spar heaters. OTR A/C and working well 3 yr old skinns glass mat batts new, recent service, straight clean no leaks.

So I called Viv back and instead of sending me down SHE WENT, I love it.

I coached her and coached her and from the looks of it it all worked out.

The fellow and his entire family took her under their wing and she has been there for 5 days now living on board and learning.


Now the seller has agreed to deliver it for her with her to New Jersey, how fantastic is that. I told that guy to stretch his brakes till the next time he came through Chicago and I would gladly put shoes and spring kits on his tractor trlr for him rotate his tires and have him over for dinner.

I can not wait to party with her this Feburary at the Elks club where she winters in Florida.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Your the MAN Joe, you do things right!!

:) JIM

[garyde]

Well, I for sure never thought it would occur. Viv's a wonderful example of what hope and dreams will get you! She's 85 years young.

[GDeen]

Congratulations Vivian on your new bus. I know a little bit about what you have been through on a much smaller scale as I have also wanted one for a long time. Candidly, having read through the threads previously I wondered if "the hunt" was going to go on in perpetuity, but it seems that notion was dead wrong. What a great ending to the whole saga. I hope you get to drive the wheels off it. Joe, you sound like a proud papa.:cool:

[Journeyone144]

Hello All,

Don and I are sitting here in my kitchen trying to book a flight back to Birmingham for him...I keep going to my back door and looking outside to see if it..." My Very Own Prevost"...is really truly sitting in the spot where my Dolphin was always parked until 4:15 PM today...July 18, 2009...!!!! It sure is...and I am sooooo happy I just can't believe it ...keep pinching myself....but it's there for sure...!!!!

And it's not only all Don said it was it's a whole lot more...He is taking a terrible loss for all he's invested in it in both time and money but he needed to sell it and when I looked at it I wanted it with all my heart...

The floor plan is exactly what I've been searching so hard for, for almost 4 whole years...but there are things in it that I never dreamed of ...Number one, after the plan being just right, the bus is immaculate...!!!! both inside and out...not a scratch on it to be noticed...and the same inside...of course there are little minor things that need fixing but nothing I'd miss only things Don pointed out to me...

What a gem of a man and his whole family has been more than wonderful to me...in every conceiveable way...I've met most of Don's family...and left there yesterday with good bye hugs to every one...

I drove several hours of the trip home and Don came with me to be sure it ran the 975 miles from Birmingham, Al. to Brick, NJ as he knew it would ...perfectly...

I am dead tired now but Don is still going strong trying to set up flight plans to get back home on US Airways the same as I got to him...He's awful quiet on the phone now but I wonder if he gave up for tonight too and went back in the coach to sleep...

I'm saying nite now to you all and go find out how he's doing...

One dilleriously happy Viv saying Nite to All...

Warm Hugs Always Viv...


************************************************** ******


The limited responce to Vivs new bus is not reflective in the number of views this thread has generated. The silence is deffining

Darrell I for one never thought she would buy but I have a hard enough time reading people in person much less over the wire so my opinion on that carried little weight.

I also decided to put other steriotypical opinions aside (age) and be polite and offer sound advice and help out where I could, that was it.

She initally had me look on line at then call the owner of an 88 American Conversion.
A middle age gentlmen alot like myself. Owner opporator 54yrs old drives a Pete works on it himself, Same with the bus. After he was pretty confident I was comming down to look and I thought I had convinced him I would find almost everything he insisted the only components not working are the 2 e-spar heaters. OTR A/C and working well 3 yr old skinns glass mat batts new, recent service, straight clean no leaks.

So I called Viv back and instead of sending me down SHE WENT, I love it.

I coached her and coached her and from the looks of it it all worked out.

The fellow and his entire family took her under their wing and she has been there for 5 days now living on board and learning.


Now the seller has agreed to deliver it for her with her to New Jersey, how fantastic is that. I told that guy to stretch his brakes till the next time he came through Chicago and I would gladly put shoes and spring kits on his tractor trlr for him rotate his tires and have him over for dinner.

I can not wait to party with her this Feburary at the Elks club where she winters in Florida.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

That's all great news Viv,:) and it's truly wonder full how this all played out.

I'm happy for you that you got your dream, that's the "secret".

You enjoy and be careful, don't exceed your capabilities and all will be good.

JIM

[Coloradobus]

Wonderful news Viv, and such a great experience. Congratulations!!:D I bet your "smiler" is sore from all the use:D:D:D

[truk4u]

Congrats Viv, hope you have lots of happy miles...

[dale farley]

Viv, I'm glad you finally got your bus. Plan that first long trip for the first week in October so we can all meet you at the Oklahoma City Rally. Hope you have many safe and happy miles.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Viv,

I hope your new bus is everything you have always dreamed about. You have worked hard to get it, and I hope it exceeds your every expectation.

[Pete]

Viv....Congrats on your new baby!. I owned a 1985 American conversion for a number of years (7 or 8). American did great conversions, well thought out, not complicated and simple to operate. I know you will be happy with it and you should be!. Please be careful....DRIVE SLOW AND SWING WIDE!

[phorner]

Viv,

Congratulations on your new bus!! You have certainly worked hard for it. I'll bet you're one happy lady :)

Enjoy your new camper..... and be careful out there.... I've driven in NJ before :eek:

[BrianE]

Viv, You've proven that patience indeed is a virtue. We wish you many trouble-free miles and the continued good health to enjoy them.

[rmboies]

Viv,

I can't believe it, you have finally purchased your dream bus!! Just thrilled for you and please send lots of photos of you behind the wheel:D You truly deserve many many happy miles!

Debi and Bob-05-xx

[Journeyone144]

Thank You All, Sooo Much,

My eyes are red and all puffy from crying, but boy that's Okay...The Search is FINALLY over...and I believe I found a miracle of a bus...it's almost perfect...

I only drove it about two hours of the trip from Birmingham because Don needed to make time and I didn't want to drive more than between 57 and 62 MPH...but I did get to drive it the last 50 miles or so after we got to the NJ Turnpike and right up into my own BACK YARD...!!!!

I drove it in so I know I can back it out...!!!!

I knew a lot of you never thought I'd find it...but I never lost the Faith...got close a few times...but after I recovered from the disappointments one after another I got the Faith back and started searching again...and with what I finally found it was worth every minute of it all...

I've truly been blessed...!!!

Don taught me so much about it and there are things I'm still not sure of but I'll get them all down pat in time...I have a book full of notes already...smile...but it's amazing how it's all coming to me so much easier than I thought it would...I feel pretty comfortable behind the wheel already...confident not cocky...not ever...but it has been 26 years since I drove every day but Tues. & Wed. Always my days off...I never got weekends...never enough senority for that...

I can't tell you how happy I am...there just are no words...

I'll keep you posted to the good and even the bad too if there is any to tell...

It took about a half tank of fuel to drive the 975 miles from Al. to NJ...never gave us a lick of concern...drove beautifully all the way...

Now if I just remember all the things I have to do before I can turn the ignition key again, bring up my air to 100 or 105 lbs of pressure...put it in Drive release the emergency brake and back it out..."Did I leave anything out"...??

Here are better pics Don had put up of it on the Website..I'll take many of my own soon as I get some real sleep...and get moved from the Dolphin into it...

http://www.rvclassified.com/rvclassified_cfmfiles/search/details.cfm?id=74164

Blessing's and Warmest of Hugs Always Viv..




Viv,

I can't believe it, you have finally purchased your dream bus!! Just thrilled for you and please send lots of photos of you behind the wheel:D You truly deserve many many happy miles!

Debi and Bob-05-xx

[bonhall41]

Looks beautiful and in perfect condition. Congratulations!

[mike kerley]

Congratulations Viv, Your persistence and patience has won out.

We hope you enjoy your new bus for many years. Stay safe and have a ball.

Mike and Karen

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Now if I just remember all the things I have to do before I can turn the ignition key again, bring up my air to 100 or 105 lbs of pressure...put it in Drive release the emergency brake and back it out..."Did I leave anything out"...??

Blessing's and Warmest of Hugs Always Viv..

Very Nice looking bus Viv, you did good. However, you really should put the bus in Reverse to back it out ! :)

Hope your coming to OKC in October. Everybody wants to meet you, and congratulate you in person for your perseverance.

Gary S.

[Ray Davis]

This is wonderful news Viv! I hope we're going to see you out at OKC! :D

Ray

[chtree]

Congratulations on your coach! It looks like it could be a Hoffman conversion.



Good Luck,

Chris

[Journeyone144]

However, you really should put the bus in Reverse to back it out ! :

Yes I agree Gary......Well... I gave myself a good laugh....needed it too...
Hugs Viv...........




Very Nice looking bus Viv, you did good. However, you really should put the bus in Reverse to back it out ! :)

Hope your coming to OKC in October. Everybody wants to meet you, and congratulate you in person for your perseverance.

Gary S.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

VIVIAN!!!

Shut off those batteries, get that grin off your face and quit walking back and forth from the window your going to wear out the carpet.

The first set of pictures that Horizon Coach sales had were terrible the whole bus looked dull they were not helping. That thing is WAY cleaner than ours wait till deb sees it I'm screwed.

Look at the reflection of the OTR compressor off the BACK of the engine bay door.

We need to help out some more here. Of major concern is an auto power cord reel. Shes got one on her current camper out of nessessity due to the weight of its 30 amp cord so she'll never be able to handle a 50. Czar Chalupka we need a source, Bayley keep an eye out on Craigs list.

I have seen a couple different instalations. Some roll into a small round plastic drum others have a square wooden enclosure the thing winds into. Some come out the bottom some the side. Are there more than 1 manufacturer, who is/are they?

Whats good whats not?


Vivian let it sit for a day or 2 without starting and tell us what the air pressure goes to. Let us know if it leans over, does the tag axle release by itself after it sits a while? If you are in gravel put a large piece of cardboard under the engine and trans and watch the drips, there is bound to be some. If you do not know how to post pictures you need to learn how it will help us help you with "stuff".

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

I am sure this will be pricey, but I think she will need the power in and out.

http://www.glendinningprods.com/pdfs/cmb_v2.pdf

and more from the same company:

http://www.glendinningprods.com/cordreels.html

http://madmariner.com/blogs/boat_shows/24161

You might find that the last link with the new products to be the most cost effective.

JIM

[GDeen]

Make sure that fob isn't in your pocket going down the road - heard a horror story involving 50 amp cord whippin the crap outta toad and coach.:eek:

[Journeyone144]

HI Joe, All,

Batteries are shut off...3 switches...

Glendenning in Fl is where I bought the Water and Elec..Auto Reels..They were the only place I ever found them...on the Net...and Camping World installed them after they ordered them...I always had everything done there before...

Will do all else you told me to...cardboard under engine...

Don't know how to put pics up here but if someone can explain how step by step...I may be able to do it okay...and if I learn how I will show you how Joe...maybe give back a little something for all your expertise to me....or I can even put Pics up on my Webshots Albums and send the URL to anyone...for sure...

Here are all the pics I've taken up to now...plus the ones Don had up that were good...

Dreams Really Do Come True >>>> Album
http://good-times.webshots.com/album/573654792oeTYiY

Hugs to All...I am sooooo Gosh Awful Happy....!!!!!!!!! The Grin is frozen...but the tears of joy are still rolling...It's sooooo ....just what I wanted...!!!! But I know I have more to learn than I expected...!!!!

I know how to add oil...I know how to loosen belts...and sooo much more...OOOHHHH

Big Hugs Always Viv...
************************************************** ******


VIVIAN!!!

Shut off those batteries, get that grin off your face and quit walking back and forth from the window your going to wear out the carpet.

The first set of pictures that Horizon Coach sales had were terrible the whole bus looked dull they were not helping. That thing is WAY cleaner than ours wait till deb sees it I'm screwed.

Look at the reflection of the OTR compressor off the BACK of the engine bay door.

We need to help out some more here. Of major concern is an auto power cord reel. Shes got one on her current camper out of nessessity due to the weight of its 30 amp cord so she'll never be able to handle a 50. Czar Chalupka we need a source, Bayley keep an eye out on Craigs list.

I have seen a couple different instalations. Some roll into a small round plastic drum others have a square wooden enclosure the thing winds into. Some come out the bottom some the side. Are there more than 1 manufacturer, who is/are they?

Whats good whats not?


Vivian let it sit for a day or 2 without starting and tell us what the air pressure goes to. Let us know if it leans over, does the tag axle release by itself after it sits a while? If you are in gravel put a large piece of cardboard under the engine and trans and watch the drips, there is bound to be some. If you do not know how to post pictures you need to learn how it will help us help you with "stuff".

[dalej]

Congratulations Viv!

I'm so happy for you. I have been following your posts just hoping the day would come.

[flyu2there]

Viv,

As so many others have said, congratulations! I am very happy for you!

Another gent mentioned that it looks like a Hoffman Conversion, I have to agree. They are still up and running and are easy to talk to, both the founder and his son; may be worth a call for any additional information that you may need. Look around for a number or something...........

Now just one question, how did the issue with the dentist resolve? Have you heard anything?

All the best,

John

[phorner]

Viv,

Janice and I just finished looking at your photo album. Great job!! You look like a kid on Christmas morning!!

Wishing you many, many happy miles.

[Journeyone144]

John,
I go to Seniors vs Crime when I get down to Fl. this fall...have an arrangement with them...

I'll look up Hoffman soon as I send this Post too John...Thank you...

Paul,
It is Christmas in July for me for real...!!! and by far the best Christmas I have ever had...
The last really good one was when Leo was real sick and somehow managed to buy me the Lowrey Majesty Organ I play every day...

Like everything else I'm only an amature...can't read but melody in sheet music but I put the rest in by ear...just play for own enjoyment most of the time...but sometimes in a CG a group will get together and someone will carry the Technics Keyboard I always carry in the coach outside to the picnic table and we all sing...but that's only when it's with people who love and remember the Oldies...

Last song I learned to play was ..."Lay Down Beside Me"...by Don Williams...ahem...!!! smile...My favorites are... "Danny Boy"...and... "Satisfied Mind"... I still try to sing a little but my voice is all but gone...

Leo played the Guitar and I just decided I would finally sell his Barney Kessel Signed Kay...so I can buy a Lap or preferrably a Pedal Steel Guitar...maybe learn a little on that...they sound soooo beautiful...but every dime went to save for my Prevo...until now...and the house is going on the market stat...soon as I find a mobile home in Fl...I didn't have to touch my approved Equity for the Prevo so I can buy it if I find it ...and I will........a whole lot easier than I did the Prevo...for sure...Can make changes in mobiles ...

Hugs Again ...and Many Thanks for everything... Always Viv...




Viv,

As so many others have said, congratulations! I am very happy for you!

Another gent mentioned that it looks like a Hoffman Conversion, I have to agree. They are still up and running and are easy to talk to, both the founder and his son; may be worth a call for any additional information that you may need. Look around for a number or something...........

Now just one question, how did the issue with the dentist resolve? Have you heard anything?

All the best,

John

[truk4u]

OK Viv, it's only 1,450 miles to Oklahoma City and the slots are filling up fast! Pick-up Joe on the way across and you'll have your own personal mechanic in house!:D

[dalej]

Great idea Tom, keep them coming!

[Journeyone144]

I will try to make the Gathering Tom,

I thought it was Oklahoma City but wasn't positive...didn't have my bus til this week so I didn't even consider it...I wouldn't have come with out it...
I'll see too what Joe has to say about it...Not many could say they'd have their own personal mechanic along could they...Bless him....but I do have to get down to Fl...for that Case about the Dentist..Kind of important too...ahem..

Hugs Always Viv...



OK Viv, it's only 1,450 miles to Oklahoma City and the slots are filling up fast! Pick-up Joe on the way across and you'll have your own personal mechanic in house!:D

[Journeyone144]

Look how wound up I am...

I was just reading over all the old posts that started when I joined POG over two years ago...and now that I have my Bus I can make plans for the rest of my life...

I've wanted to buy a mobile home in or near central Fl. all along where I breathe the best...away from the coasts...in less humidity...

I hope to find a place with at least a 14 X 70 Mobile and a huge lanai...on it's own property so I only have to pay taxes...not in a community where the association fee's and rents keep going up every year...and with enough space to park my bus and car or two...

Probably will sell one of them...who needs 4...sentimentality made me keep the Lincoln my husband bought me last...but I do love shopping and spending the night in a Walmart or other area while I shop at my leisure in the Coach House Class B that I took to Ca. after my son died...It has the wee fridge to put the perishables in until I get back home in my own time...I usually only shop for staples twice a year...so I can pack that wee coach in a couple of days...I eat out a lot too...so wasteful to cook for only one person...

Then with saving 5K a yr. taxes and over 500. a mo. for gas and elec bills in this ole house I'll have more fuel money to travel with...as well as to keep my bus up and fix up any mobile home I find if it needs some repair...

In the summer hot months I'll come back to Jersey to spend some time at my daughters' place in Bayville and visit the few old friends I still have here... I know my dau. will come down to Fl..every winter...Try and keep her away...lol...Prob. see her more there than I do here...

Those are the gist of my plans now that I HAVE AT LAST FOUND MY BUS...!!!
Everything hinged on that...

Incidently, Don who I bought it from called me not a half hour ago wanting to know if I was still as happy as I was when he left to go back to Birmingham...I know he's convince I am...He said he could tell it in my voice...We're already talking about him bringing Media down to Fl. this winter to visit me...I believe we'll be friends for life...

And last but not least...The ship now has it's own name...the Printer Bob Hinkson and his mother who works in the office are making the new sign for the destination spot over the windshield to read..
... "JourneyOne's Cruiser" ...
Bob has made all the signs I ever had put on any coach or car...all said ... "JourneyOne" ... I've already explanined the reason I added Cruiser in my last e-mail...

I'm having the 50 amp. outlet I had on my house for my Vectra put back...and keeping the 30 amp already there for the Coach House...The Prevost has to sit for a bit 'til I get all this stuff done before The Rally or my Trip down to Fl..in it..I'm not going to pull my tow car this year...want to know the coach better to be safer...I did without one for years so I can do it again...May take a folding scooter I already have since I have the Bays big enough to fit it in...one more advantage...That just hit me this second... Smile..

The wind down will be My Friend Karen and I playing ...Hand & Foot... the Canasta card game in the Coach as soon as I get all moved in... Halleluliah...

I'm already thinking about a short virgin run out to Maple Lake Camp Ground for a few days or week...Love their lake and I know my way around there real good...Just Itching to drive it again...lol...Maybe after the electrician installs the 50 amp..and just before I plug it in...Got so much to remember to do before I can even turn the key...I want to practice doing it...OOOOhhhhh

Hugs Always Viv...



Joe,

You're always welcome to become our neighbor in the Sunshine State!

[Darl-Wilson]

Viv,
Now just one question, how did the issue with the dentist resolve? Have you heard anything?
All the best,
John

Congrats Viv!! :D Like John, I am also wondering what happened with the 'Devious Dentist', Mr Steve Katz?

At the very least Vivian you learned an expensive lesson but by being so positive and tenacious you finally got what you wanted. (and deserved).

You still haven't answered if you are going to OKC. I'm sure you will win "Ms Popularity" if you show up.

Enjoy!

Darl

PS: I think you also win the "Longest thread on one subject":)

[Journeyone144]

Hi Darl,

I would love to come to the Rally and I will if Joe C. can come with me...maybe Debbie too..It's up to him...because..

I will only take it alone to Fl..where I know almost every bump in the road for my virgin voyage...I need to get back into driving a real bus again and this is one a little bigger and a whole lot newer than any I ever drove before...so I want to take every percaution to be safe...

I couldn't get a better first trip if I could come to Ok. and I know Joe would help me get more familiar with all I have to get down really pat...and I tell you I'm not sure of a whole bunch that Don drummed into me...

Being away from the Driving end for a week now and moving into it have taken all my waking hours...

I don't see any oil anywhere..and I'm having an electrician come Wed. this week to instally the 50 Amp outlet for me...

I also still don't have the Bill of Sale so I can go to Motor Vehicles and transfer my plates from the Dolphin to the Prevost... get the taxes they'll hit me with paid...

Gotta tell ya...to make it really mine I couldn't resist buying one item...and I'm going to ask the electrician to install it for me while he's here Wed...He doesn't even know that yet...but he's a friend and if he has time I'm sure he'll do it for me...

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2725450430034860664EFiKGv
I would never have a real Palace but now I can try and turn My Prevost into one...

Girl Stuff...I know guys don't often appreciate these things much...Smile..

Jugs o' Hugs Always Love Viv...

PS: Darl, You all had something to do with that Huge Thread...Thank Heavens..
************************************************** ****


Congrats Viv!! :D Like John, I am also wondering what happened with the 'Devious Dentist', Mr Steve Katz?

At the very least Vivian you learned an expensive lesson but by being so positive and tenacious you finally got what you wanted. (and deserved).

You still haven't answered if you are going to OKC. I'm sure you will win "Ms Popularity" if you show up.

Enjoy!

Darl

PS: I think you also win the "Longest thread on one subject":)

[dalej]

where I know almost every bump in the road for my virgin voyage...

I hate to say anything......but isn't it maiden voyage, or is there a rest of the story. :)




Viv, I just thought your lead in was perfect. Maybe I'm just in a good mood.

[Journeyone144]

OOOOhhhh Dale..LOL...

Maybe not a maiden voyage perse' but I do have yet to be turned loose with it all alone...plenty nervous too...but I'll do it ...

I'm walkin' on air...unreal..I kept the Faith but it took so long there was always that nagging doubt...human instinct...but now I can look to make it mine...Make it Me... I love the glitz...

I found a hose reel but not sure if it can be used in mobiles...waiting for reply from the company...

http://www.gemplers.com/product/139475/50-ft-Levelwind-Automatic-Hose-Reel

Hugs Always Viv...


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++


I hate to say anything......but isn't it maiden voyage, or is there a rest of the story. :)




Viv, I just thought your lead in was perfect. Maybe I'm just in a good mood.

[Journeyone144]

Hi Joe,
The whole length of the coach when we first parked it was only about 4 inches off the ground and it hasn't gone down any further...Thank goodness because I thought it was really close to the ground...worried me at first but is that how far down all coaches sit when parked...I didn't notice it being that close to pavement when we parked to eat...on the way home ...but it could have been...

I had no cardboard but I can see there is a little oil on the black top in my drive way...It doesn't seem to be very much at all...but that's my inexperienced view...

The tag axel is still down after being parked 5 days...it would come up if if the release let go wouldn't it..?? Or would it...???

I haven't tried to start it...so all 3 battery switches are still turned off...

Two on the Pass. Side in same Bay...one on Driver side in Gen. Bay...

I will take pics..and try to upload here...if I can find any information on how to do it at the Website here...

I didn't plan to do anything but move in until I also get the 50 amp. outlet onto my house...Electrician was here and has had to order one...so I'm just waiting for him to come back..

I'm about half moved in...ta dahhh but leaving out much that was in the Dolphin ...shame on me...37 pairs of slacks...I never dreamed I had so many...lol..and I'll wear 5 or 6 favorites...so 30 stay OUT...Told you only because I had to give you all something to devil me for...didn't count Tops...
Not gonna be such a pack rat any more...I promise...

I have something I want to mention to you...My dau. and her husband have built 5 houses and when she walked thru' it ...she said she noticed a spongy feeling underfoot at one point of the floor between the washer/dryer and the bathroom door in the hallway...Could that mean bad wood underneath from perhaps past water problems...???????????????? I can't feel it...







HI Joe, All,


I know how to add oil...I know how to loosen belts...and sooo much more...OOOHHHH

Big Hugs Always Viv...
************************************************** ******

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Yes it could.

Does the waterpump cycle when nothing is being used? Could be the drain, could be the washing machine itself too.

Do you plan on using that?

Start a list we will tackle it this winter in Fla.

What do the air pressure gauges on the dash read?

If that bus is 4 inches off the ground it has gone down mine is around 11 inches bottom edge of the stainless just forward of the drive tires.

[Journeyone144]

Yes it could. ans. ( Okay )

Does the waterpump cycle when nothing is being used? Could be the drain, could be the washing machine itself too. ans. ( nothing is turned on anywhere that I know of in the entire coach..I'm afraid to push any button unless I know exactly where it is..and that it's okay to push it..smile..)

Do you plan on using that? ans.( I doubt it..I might try it once..but I like the Laundromats in CG's..always make friends there..)

Start a list we will tackle it this winter in Fla. ans. Okay Hon..Thank you..)

What do the air pressure gauges on the dash read?

ans. ( Can't tell..nothing comes on when I turn ignition key..We did shut off all batt. just before Don left last week..I am trying to wait until I have the 50 Amp. outlet installed..Electrician called me this morn. it will be done today..Please ans me this..will batt's chg. even tho' they are turned off..after I plug coach in to the new outlet..or must I turn them on..for them to recharge in case they ran down..)??

If that bus is 4 inches off the ground it has gone down mine is around 11 inches bottom edge of the stainless just forward of the drive tires.
ans. ( is that unusual or bad..busses I drove always went down during the night..and Don said I would always have to wait for the air to come up before moving the Coach.. so I expected the air to go down..)

Sure wish I wasn't alone with all this so soon...

Hugs Always Viv..
PS: See Pics I just put up on Webshots in a new album called:
Learning About My Prevost
http://sports.webshots.com/album/573815861syDEFr

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Viv you didn't answer the question. What do the gauges say?

[Journeyone144]

Prayerfully soon be on the road to Florida...Almost finished moving into the new Coach...and just as elated as I was the day I first saw it..
Got my plates on yesterday morning and Rod of High Tech Signs came yesterday afternoon and put the personal signs on...I named her ..."JourneyOne's Cruiser"... and friends from the... "RV-Singles"... List I belong to over ten years...insisted I put my own name on my last coach as well...I never did that before but I did it this time..!~!..I am soooo Happy...See the smaller ..."Vivian"... down under the windshield...The lettering on top is in Silver and the Vivian is in Black...to match the bus color...
It's really mine now...!!!!!

If you see me on the road please blink your 4-ways and stop to meet in person...and get a real live hug...I hope to meet up with someone of you..

Hugs Always Viv...:eek:



I hate to say anything......but isn't it maiden voyage, or is there a rest of the story. :)




Viv, I just thought your lead in was perfect. Maybe I'm just in a good mood.

[Journeyone144]

Viv's New Signs:

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2429083780034860664bYCogM





If you see me on the road please blink your 4-ways and stop to meet in person...and get a real live hug...I hope to meet up with someone of you..

Hugs Always Viv...:eek:

[phorner]

Looks good, Viv.

Be careful out there on the road....

[dalej]

Viv,

I'm so happy for you! Stay in touch and let us all know how your first trip goes.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Nice pictures Viv. I see your continued enthusiasm right through the internet. See you down the road.

JIM :)