Viv & her Prevost deposit to buy.

[Journeyone144]

Morning All,
This Dealer gave me a street address for the Coach I had my bank Wire him $5,000.00 day before yesterday promising me he would give me the name and address so I could go see this bus as soon as he received the money...It was sent to his Sun Trust A/C in Fl...immediately...and I prepared an overnight case, was ready to leave for Pa. to see this Coach...I could not leave because he hasn't made an appointment for me yet...instead is trying to make me take out Ins. etc..first...Of course I would never do that ...thus' my following message and further down his messages to me...
Thanks for looking...one very disappointed Viv...but maybe I'm better off for it ... Tears....!!!!
Hugs Always Viv...
----- Original Message -----
From: Vivian A. McGraw
To: Steve Katz
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 6:28 PM
Subject: Cancellation of Sale of 1993 Prevost Liberty Elegant Lady...
Decline of purchase of 1993 Prevost Liberty Elegant Lady
Evening Steven Katz,
I am rescinding my offer to purchase the 1993 Prevost Liberty Elegant Lady Bus Conversion you advertised on your Website...Prevost Trader...based on complications in the transaction...whereas I was not given the opportunity to see and drive this coach after my PNC Bank Wired you my deposit yesterday afternoon...
Very respectfully I decline the offer to purchase this coach...
Thanking you in advance for the return of my deposit...
I remain yours truly.........
Vivian A. McGraw
Vivian McGraw
836 Maple Ave.
Brick, NJ
08724
732-458-3480
732-779-1227
----- ----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Katz
To: Vivian A. McGraw
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: Congratulations!!

Vivian:
You need to get your insurance in place and be prepared to wire the funds. Let me know when you are planning to go and I will make the arrangements. Then you will be able to drive it home.
Steve
On Dec 5, 2008, at 7:18 PM, Vivian A. McGraw wrote:
Hi Steve,
You didn't give me a name or phone number for the owners...so I can make an arrangement to go see it...hopefully bring it home...
Hugs Always Viv...
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Katz
To: journeyone@comcast.net
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 7:00 PM
Subject: Congratulations!!
PrevostTrader
Phone: (239) 229-8207 Fax (352)753-9799
sales@prevosttrader.com
Dear Vivian:
Congratulations on the purchase of your Prevost coach. We wish you many years of enjoyment with your new “home on wheels”. By choosing a Prevost, and especially one that was converted by Liberty, you have selected a coach that originally sold for over one million dollars.
I can tell you that I know this coach very well, and that it has received several mechanical updates and upgrades by Prevost in Jacksonville, Detroit Diesel, and by Liberty in Stuart, Florida.
The interior was re-modeled in 2004, and the current owner has installed new tires, new A/C and many other items that make your coach even better.
Vivian, you bought a great coach at a great price.
Insurance
I have referred many clients to Thum Insurance (406)327-0401. Ask for Melissa and tell her that Steve from PrevostTrader referred you.
They understand Prevost coaches, know what coverage you need, are nice to deal with, and will give you a good rate
Sales Tax
I suggest you call the Heggen Law Office (406)327-0401. Tell them you are buying a Prevost and would like to set up an LLC. Tell them you were referred by Steve from PrevostTrader. They do it all the time, will help you get it registered, are nice to deal with, and they are experts at it.
Delivery
I need to know when you are planning to pick up the coach. Prior to that day I will send wiring instructions to the seller, for the balance.
Directions
You will be going to 139 Old Trail Rd, Duncannon, PA 17069. Mapquest says it’s 184 miles, and will take 3 hours and 12 minutes.
Yes, it’s really true. Call me with any questions.
Steve Katz
PrevostTrader



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[Journeyone144]

This is the URL for the Bus I wanted to buy..........forgot to post it with my disappointment msg...sorry...just too upset...
Hugs Viv...

http://www.prevosttrader.com/index.php?v=8&iview=27

[Tully]

Is this standard practice to pay a deposit to look at a coach? I was never asked to deposit one dime and I looked at dozens.

Tully

[Will Garner]

Viv,

I looked at dozens of Prevost, Bluebirds and even a couple of old Eagles. I was never asked for a dime to just Look. When I found one I did not put up any money until loan closing.

I would be way leary of anyone asking for a deposit to just look. I hope and pray you see that $5,000 come back home to PNC.

Keep us posted on the outcome.

[flyu2there]

Did you make an offer to buy this coach at a specified price subject to your approval or inspection? Do you have some form of a sales or conditional sales agreement? Finally was the transfer into a "personal account" or the business account of the broker? Your wording indicates that the "sale" is/was some form of a consignment.

As the others have mentioned, I have never heard of a hefty deposit just to take a look which would make me leery. Most every state will require a dealer or broker to be licensed so I would presume that there are avenues available, if needed, that you can pursue.

The e-mails that you posted show that the broker gave you the address and map quest directions to the coach on December 5, whilst your note back to the broker cancelling the sale is dated December 6, about 24 hours later.....................

Best,

John

[garyde]

Viv. If you call your bank, can you cancel this check? I would do so first thing Monday morning. Never ever send anyone any money up front unless you have proof of the persons reputation.
A deposit is normal to hold a coach to purchase. Not to view. Be clear about your intent in the future.

[Journeyone144]

Yes I made a verbal offer to Steve Katz of Prevost Trader...prior but he gave me no Name or Phone number so I could make an appt. to see the coach...tole me the people had told him to keep people away from them...that he was to sell the coach...and I didn't want to drive 181 miles and find no one home...and he would give me neither...until I'd made arrangements for Ins. and readiness to pay the balance... the deposit of 5,000 was just to see the coach and then approve it if it was all it was proposed to be...
Incidently the zip code he gave me would not come up on www.zillow.com and the address zillow chose was on Mill st...Perry Cty, Duncannon, Pa...not 139 Old Trail Rd...I wouldn't go with conflicting addresses either...didn't know what to do ..so I wrote and Declined my offer...since can't see coach first...
Hugs Viv...



Did you make an offer to buy this coach at a specified price subject to your approval or inspection? Do you have some form of a sales or conditional sales agreement? Finally was the transfer into a "personal account" or the business account of the broker? Your wording indicates that the "sale" is/was some form of a consignment.

As the others have mentioned, I have never heard of a hefty deposit just to take a look which would make me leery. Most every state will require a dealer or broker to be licensed so I would presume that there are avenues available, if needed, that you can pursue.

The e-mails that you posted show that the broker gave you the address and map quest directions to the coach on December 5, whilst your note back to the broker cancelling the sale is dated December 6, about 24 hours later.......

Best,

John

[Journeyone144]

Hi Gary,
The intent was very clear to Steve Katz...He had told me I could not see the coach until I wired him the $5,000...that's the only reason I had my Bank send it...so I could look at and drive the coach to be sure it was all it was proposed to be...I also would have gotten a nearby mechanic to go with me to check over things I couldn't do myself...I had found a Dealership by Harrisburg, about 10 miles from Duncannon...and I was prepared to spend a nite or two at a motel somewhere nearby...I was ready to leave my house Saturday morning to go to Pa...
Hugs Viv..



Viv. If you call your bank, can you cancel this check? I would do so first thing Monday morning. Never ever send anyone any money up front unless you have proof of the persons reputation.
A deposit is normal to hold a coach to purchase. Not to view. Be clear about your intent in the future.

[Will Garner]

Viv,

To me a trip of 181 miles to view a coach is not very far. These coaches are not like shopping for a used Chevy. You won't find a dozen on every street corner. I think you know that by now.

While Carole and I were looking for a coach we actually found travel to far away places to be part of the fun. Not to mention meeting and speaking with a group of people having a wide variety of talents and interests. Our travels took us from here in NC, I think we looked at two coaches that would be within a 181 mile distance from our home, to Naples FL, Lansing MI, Memphis and Nashville TN, and some places I don't even recall anymore.

Look on the hunt for a Prevost as an adventure and then go where the bus leads take you. Chase up a travel buddy if you don't want to travel alone.

[Coloradobus]

Viv,

I hope you get your money back, but this deal smells and its not diesel exhaust. This whole story is fishy. In this market, there are plenty of "legit" busses for sale by "legit' owners. That's our 2 cents.

[Coloradobus]

Please check Marathon coach #200 on the Marahton site., and its in Florida It is priced lower than the one you were looking at and is an H3-40. It has had a new engine, tranny and cruises airs, and other updates.

[truk4u]

Viv,

Isn't this the same Bandito that tried to get you put a deposit on the Liberty in AL before you could look at it? Let us all know if you don't get your deposit back and I'm sure you will never send anyone money again just for permission to look!:(

If she doesn't get her money back, we may have to go into the POG harassment mode by contacting this guy from a few hundred of Viv's closest friends or send Lew on a road trip to visit this guy in FL!;)

[flyu2there]

Yes I made a verbal offer to Steve Katz of Prevost Trader...prior but he gave me no Name or Phone number so I could make an appt. to see the coach...tole me the people had told him to keep people away from them...that he was to sell the coach...and I didn't want to drive 181 miles and find no one home...and he would give me neither...until I'd made arrangements for Ins. and readiness to pay the balance... the deposit of 5,000 was just to see the coach and then approve it if it was all it was proposed to be...
Incidently the zip code he gave me would not come up on www.zillow.com and the address zillow chose was on Mill st...Perry Cty, Duncannon, Pa...not 139 Old Trail Rd...I wouldn't go with conflicting addresses either...didn't know what to do ..so I wrote and Declined my offer...since can't see coach first...
Hugs Viv...

Viv,

Looks to me that there has been some form of misunderstanding. Lets hope that Mr. Cats simply returns the deposit.

Seems to me that it would be prudent to avoid making any kind of an offer to buy anything "sight unseen" unless you are really a gambler. Just from what I have read in these posts, appears that the broker took your verbal as an offer to buy however, he should have overnighted you some form of a sales agreement. Verbals really do not have any standing in most arenas and he may be trying to pressure a close, who knows.

Future reference, give him (or any dealer) a credit card----those company's are very good at retreiving deposits (monies) from scammers, if, in fact, he is one. Lets hope he simply returns your deposit.

Piece of advice, next time ask one of the Poggers when you find a coach. Most of us have been down the road before and would be happy to help with the details...........


Best,

John

[phorner]

Viv,

I sure hope you get your deposit back. I can't imagine a legitimate reason to require a deposit to simply inspect a coach.

Good luck in your search.

[Journeyone144]

OOOhhh Will, Carol,

I know all too well I'm looking for a needle in a haystack...It's really more like a miracle..I'm searching for...

You misunderstand...!!!...a hund and 81 miles is nothing...I was ready to leave for Pa. in less than an hour after the Dealer called me and told me my offer was accepted...
I'd even forgotten about my offer as he had told me not to expect them to accept it and it was awhile ago that I made the offer too..Then when he got it thru' to me they had actually accepted I exclaimed, "I can't believe it's really true"..."notice his last remark to me on his Congratulatory Message."...I was ecstatic...!!!!
Mileage would mean nothing to me...and I always have to go alone Will. There's noone to go with me and help me make decisions anymore...Count your Blessings, My dear...Please...

I've missed out on 4 buys in the past 3 years ..well one in 05 too at Phil Coopers when I first started looking...

One at Eagles Pride RV in Titusville Fl..in 2006... Just after the trip I took to the Slabs in Ca...My 47 year old son had died a few weeks before I left...Driving is the best way I deal with grief...or any stress...and on my way back from Ca...I saw the 92 Pre. Country Coach on his Website and I'd all but signed the papers waiting to go with the dealer to a Bank in Fl...Dealer was working with another customer to close another deal too, so he told me to go ahead and start moving into the coach while I waited for him so I could leave with my Pre before dark...then after I'd made several trips moving stuff from my coach into the Pre.which he was taking in trade...he sent for me and told me he'd made a 3K error in his figures..!!!..
Instantly I thought it was funny it was exactly 3K when I'd earlier told him I hoped the 3K cash he had left me was going to see me thru' the rest of the winter, smiling...but when I looked him in the eye ...I knew...exactly what he was trying to do...I just turned around and walked out of his office, not saying a word...took my things back out of the Pre. got in my coach and left...
200 miles up the road toward NJ he called me on my cell phone...told me to come back and get the coach for the original price...I asked him if he would pay for my gas to come back...but oh no he couldn't do that...so I didn't go back and he called me 4 more times..I was just too furious...didn't want his coach anymore..!!! I'd been thru' too much with the loss of my son who had been my right arm...

6 months after my husband died in 98...I saw an 82 Diesel Bus on www.motorhomesusa.com exactly like some I'd driven at work...I wanted to at least drive again...Our SportsCoach had set idle for the last 5 yrs. of my husband's illness...and life..
I would be familiar with this bus...a Fishbowl type...pictures were beautiful..coach was 65K...Dealer swore it was perfect...he paid for our airline tickets...met us at the airport...I'd sent him 5K...Flew to Houston with the balance in my purse...with my best friend Gigi who lives in France and was visiting me...
The bus was filthy...many changes had been made in it...and when I drove it...it was top heavy..felt like it would turn over as we rounded bends...I refused to buy it but no refund possible..In Texas the law is "whatever the Market will bear"...so I had no choice but to choose another coach or fly back home..losing 5K....More for Gigi than myself I looked at everything he had..
Finally chose an 87 Fleetwood Limited...Then on the way home an owner of a small Elec. Co. in a small town near Pensacola, Fl...couldn't cut his cruise control off...so couldn't stop.. He was terrified we saw later...I felt really bad for the man...Gigi and I were stopped in an off road parking lot asking directions of a trucker...when something slammed into the side of the Fleetwood tearing up the whole side of it and my hand was outside the window it and it too was ripped open by something, blood was everywhere...We were delayed for 4 days and I drove a limping vehicle the remaining 17 hundred miles home...with my heel on the accelerator...When I got up to open the door for the police I discoverd I'd somehow broken my foot as well...but we had a good time on the trip home in spite of it all...

I almost drove to Tn. for a Pre...last year..but was convinced not to buy it by a real good friend I've made here on POG..as it being too old to be reliable..without huge investment...after the buy...I listened...of course...but I did want to get it...lol...so tired of looking...

I was ready to fly to Princeton, Tx. to Mr. Ollivers for a real good Pre...if I could have made the price...but at last min..had to forget it...It was just out of my reach...

Lastly just a few months ago..I had a gorgeous Liberty Lady I'd been negotiating several weeks for with Heartland RV in Fl...an hour before my bank could send him the 5K that he also wanted up front...he called me to tell me it was sold to someone else...that was the biggest disappointment of all until this one today...

While I'm going thru' all this you may as well know about the letter I sent BCM Mag...when the editor Dennis Meyers asked for our stories...I hoped maybe some one somewhere in the country might have a Lady advertised for sale that I probably never would see otherwise...but that they might see the story and call me..so far no one has...smile...

http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2832359540034860664YHSRDW

Will, I'd go most anywhere to get the Liberty Lady with my name on it...believe me...!!!

Hugs Always Viv...

*************************************************


Viv,

To me a trip of 181 miles to view a coach is not very far. These coaches are not like shopping for a used Chevy. You won't find a dozen on every street corner. I think you know that by now.

While Carole and I were looking for a coach we actually found travel to far away places to be part of the fun. Not to mention meeting and speaking with a group of people having a wide variety of talents and interests. Our travels took us from here in NC, I think we looked at two coaches that would be within a 181 mile distance from our home, to Naples FL, Lansing MI, Memphis and Nashville TN, and some places I don't even recall anymore.

Look on the hunt for a Prevost as an adventure and then go where the bus leads take you. Chase up a travel buddy if you don't want to travel alone.

[Jerry Winchester]

Viv,

If you get a letter or e-mail from someone in Nigeria offering to split some money with you so they can get it out of the country, just say no.

You'll most likely get your money back since this guy is all over the Internet but you might be better off sticking with your old RV.

[grantracy]

I bought my coach through this guy. Got the same story about the deposit,after I pressed him however it turned out the deposit was really his commission. Apparently he was afraid I would circumvent him and go directly to the seller. In any event I posted the deposit in my attorneys trust account once I took delivery of the coach the "deposit" was released.

[Journeyone144]

Yes Grantracy,
That's exactly what I've been told by most of the Dealers who I got to talking to about such deposits...they're not for a contract, over the net or phone...they are really only for what you said..being sure we can't deprive them of their commission...
Thank you for writing and letting me know you understood...
My Bank is trying right now to get my 5K returned..and they said I do have 3 working days to change my mind...but that is in NJ...maybe Fl. has a different law...I guess that could happen too...Just have to wait 'til my bank calls me back..
Hugs Always Viv..


I bought my coach through this guy. Got the same story about the deposit,after I pressed him however it turned out the deposit was really his commission. Apparently he was afraid I would circumvent him and go directly to the seller. In any event I posted the deposit in my attorneys trust account once I took delivery of the coach the "deposit" was released.

[Journeyone144]

I know I'm naieve Jerry,

But not that much...I've been on line for 14 yrs...and never got in trouble with any of those scams...smile...

I'm just too trusting...and when a dealer won't let you see a bus without a depost...which is really his commisson that he's making sure you can't do him out of if he lets you get to the owner alone and could happen... would never do such a thing...but I know he would cheat ME in a heartbeat...

Jerry I've never talked to you before but I see what you've been able to accomplish with your life...I worked from the time I was 14 yrs. old until I was retired from bus driving at age 57...and then still worked 5 more years in an Antique Emporium where I sold my own antiques...before I went on S.S...

Always saving toward a Real Bus...My ultimate goal...

Please don't tell me I should give up on my Dream..I can never do that...even tho' I know I may have troubles with the one I buy and I might not even have the money to repair it right away...but I won't be the only one who found themselves in such a predicament..I just have to pray it doesn't happen...

I also know my years for driving are numbered..!!!,.but I would rather be walking up and down the aisle of my own "Palace on Wheels"..Diesel Lady that won't run for awhile, than have none at all...and not realize my Dream...

A Gas engine RV can't compare to a Diesel...but I don't have to tell you that do I...Your's is far and above what I could ever set my sights on...but with the right floor plan and good engine and drive train...I would be in 7th Heaven with an older Prevost Liberty Elegant Lady...and I really prefer the lower straight front over the higher newer slanted front...No 45 footer...too difficult to find parking places for...CG's might have to park me on their outside perimeter when I would so much rather be nearer people...a 40' is all I would buy..

Warm Hugs Always Viv...old enough to be your grandmother...but blessed with a will of iron...and too honest for my own good...

Please don't discourage me Jerry...




Viv,

If you get a letter or e-mail from someone in Nigeria offering to split some money with you so they can get it out of the country, just say no.

You'll most likely get your money back since this guy is all over the Internet but you might be better off sticking with your old RV.

[ajhaig]

Viv,

I don't think that anyone wants to see your dream turn into a nightmare. IMHO - the cheapest thing about owning a vintage Prevost is the purchase price, it's not something that should be attempted on a tight budget.

We owned a very well maintained 1991 Marathon which served us well, but we still spent a considerable amount of money on routine service and minor repairs over the year that we owned the bus.

Deferred maintenance on a Prevost is almost a guarantee to throw your dream into a full blown nightmare. You seem like a very nice and capable person, however I can't help but to think that if the process of purchasing a coach has become so troublesome, you may want to reconsider Prevost ownership.

AJ

[Tully]

When our life is done an over I sure do not want to look back on the "coulda- woulda-shoulda" and beat myself up.

Get your bus Viv. But, there are plenty of smart people on this site who can give you help in this area. Many are willing to help. I think Joe C in previous post had said he would even check out a coach for you. He is the man!

But really, if you want something this bad (and it sounds like you do), get it. Do not regret it. But do plan on spending money. I have put upwards $11,000 in my coach and I have only owned it since March. Bags, valves, shocks, batteries and upgraded electronics. It all adds up. And to add insult to injury- you are lucky to get pennies back on the dollar. IT IS NOT AN INVESTMENT- in any shape or form. It makes no sense from a dollar stand point. Boats seems to fall in the same arena. There is no such thing as buying a coach and putting no money into it. It is a house on wheels and it can be in constant need of some type of repair- big or small.

Again, I would keep looking. Had I waited I would have been able to get my coach 10 - 15% less in just over the last six month period. So, time is to your advantage for sure in this market. Pretty soon they may be paying you $5000 just to come out and look at a coach- who knows.

Best of luck and use this forum- it will give you good advise and options.

Tully Lee Garrett

[0533]

Viv, Where are you with Steve Katz, or whomever the dealer is. Do you need help contacting him. I would be happy to call and see where we are if you give me the details and what you hope to achieve at this point.

Are you asking for your deposit back? has Katz cashed your check?? If not have you placed a stop payment on it?? In any event I would be happy to jump in and speak with this guy and determine what can be done at this point.

I am however concerned about the requirement for this viewing deposit as it is really unusual behavior unless it was part of the plan from the get go.

Call me at 561-512-6181. I have not had any nasty encounters this week and am overdo.