espar burner

[Joe Cannarozzi]

I have some issues with this option. Initially jetpuffed a few times and then ignited, ran for long enough to produce hot water at the sink flow through the heater core for the plumbing bay,and I believe I can hear the water pump circulating, however, the espar thermostat in the cabin does not turn on the bus blowers when turned up through a click at ambient temp. It also has subsequently quit igniting altogether and a limited inspection of the nossal and plug turned up OK. How do I check if the fuel pump is working or if its clogged? Is there a relay for the blowers? How about it? Anybody?

[Just Plain Jeff]

Ouch!

First of all, welcome to the POG forum Joe.

Our first coach had Espar heaters x3. When they did work, they were smelly, put out such dry air that we had nosebleeds and dripped diesel fuel.

These were installed by a large number of the now-gonzo midwestern converters, ours was an Angola. Espar is a German company that has a customer service operation that makes Ramco Engineering look like helpful people. These units are mostly used in marine and heavy truck applications.

I got absolutely nowhere with the folks there. The only documentation I got was in German. So, ol' Lester Burgess at Ken Robertson RV in Lakeland, Florida got angry with them, finally got some parts and rewired same.

They are actually little turbo-diesel burners and are quite finnicky. We contemplated replacing them even after they were working with a Webasto system, but didn't due to the age of the bus and the cost of post-conversion Webasto installation. Instead, we put in a couple of high-powered electric kick heaters and called it good.

I am sorry to put up such a black cloud on a welcome. The first guy to talk with is Lester I would say; and the service is going to be in Lakeland, FL.

Drat, I wish I coulda talked to you a while ago!

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Thanks for all the responses ,funny thing I have managed to completly avoid computers for 46 years and now everybody can help me learn ha! Jeff, the coach also has four kick heaters but running the generator to keep it warm is OK but no good I,m thinking this style is prefferable over webesko or aqua hot because its so much more compact?Looks like I might rethink. While were on the subject of broken ,Were going to be repairing our overtheroad AC its currently R12 and I,m planning on sticking with the same for a couple of reasons it seems to me it makes colder air and I dont have to change the compresser oil to synthetic. Whatdo you think

[Just Plain Jeff]

Joe:

We had two 8V92 coaches with OTR R-12 air. The first was a well-cared for 89 Angola (with the Espars); then we got the crummy 94 Liberty.

We converted the Lib to `134a as the bearing in the compressor needed replacement and figured, 'hey, while we're there...'

An older gent who is a member of this board, who is likely resting at the moment, has a complete article with pictures about changing over an R-12 coach to 134a on the cheap. I think it cost about $18 plus the 134a. Mind you, the guy who actually did the work was 40 years in the air conditioning business, and unlike me, actually knows something.

We wound up with a system that worked pretty nicely. Considering that a pound of R-12 will probably cost you more than the entire conversion to 134a, it is well worth the conversion, in my thoughts. It turns out to not be quite as cold, but it's easy to keep recharged once you get the hang of it.

Once the older gentleman reads this post, perhaps he will dig into his computer, get the article together and send it to the webmaster for publication. It's a step by step article and if you're minding the article and have some mechanical prowess, you'll likely be able to do it yourself.

If you feel that you're mechanically challenged, as I most certainly am, I would look for a guy who does medium-sized air conditioning work (NOT a bus guy), who can, with the article, get you changed over and still be at a technological and Lew Bucks advantage. (At POG all currencies is in Lew Bucks, as you will discover. Kind of like the Euro, but exchanged only on Prevost shell stuff).

So I'd vote for the conversion to 134a and be done with it.

I am learning that the Webasto, as configured by Mango Mike, our resident expert in such things, is pretty much bulletproof once it is set up and properly maintained. The jury is still out on the Aqua Hot system...although it has Webasto burner in it, there's much more to the system to fiddle around with and to get adjusted, etc.

Hope that a little bit of this may be helpful to you.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Who you callin' old. You lost the article and now you expect me to bail you out?

BTW...there is a little hope. My refrigeration tools arrived this week and I may be able to learn how to do things. Then I'll write an article like the one you lost.

[Jerry Winchester]

I will confess that I had a pretty low opinion of the AquaHot until we actually fixed mine at the POG rally. In fairness to the machine, it probably had a brazillion hours on it and I was just horsing around chasing symptoms instead of getting the stuff and rebuilding it.

After changing out the fuel pump, burner can, nozzle, fan motor, coupling and electric heater coils, ours runs like Lew to a buffet. I think properly operating, it is a fine system that will give years of good service. Provided you do the maintainence and heed MangoMike's warning to start it up every month.

As for the AC, our OTR air is R-12 and it works well and blows at about 50 degrees, so I am way happy with it.

[Just Plain Jeff]

Jerry makes a good point here about the R-12. On our Angola it worked great for 3 1/2 years, never any trouble, need of charging or anything. We began our research about A/C when we got the coach and got a quote of $8K for the conversion from Prevost Jacksonville and dropped the whole thing as being too many Lew Bucks for fixing something that wasn't broken.

Background: Prevost, as a matter of protocol, guarantees their work for a year. Their protocol also means (relative to changing to 134a) that they replace all hoses, fittings, the condenser sensor unit, synthetic oil, unloaders on the compressor, and so on. Yet, on the other hand, when the change over a seated coach for sale, they evacuate the system, change out the unloaders, put on a 134a charging adapter on the supply side of the compressor, fill it up with the new gas and send it out. So there are two different Prevost Service Center points of view, I guess, depending on who is paying the bill.

In the case of our crummy Liberty, it had, well, ah, self-evacuated due to the seal in the compressor being shot and a 1-inch rupture in the braided stainless line going from the compressor to the midships condensor unit. Replacing all that was going to be a job of removing the genset, water tanks, waste tank, etc. So we patched the line, which held nitrogen at 115 pounds for two days.

So our reason for converting to 134a was because we were indeed, 'there.' If your system is working well, you have enough to do before getting around to change over to 134a.

"If it ain't broken, lube it or chrome it."