Cost of maintaining a Prevost Bus

[LarryB]

Hello Group, as a newbie to the group, I have been reading a bunch of the past posts. Seems you guys are always fixing things on the Bus. My question is two fold;
1] is the cost of maintaining a Bus greater than that of a top of the line "Plastic" coach?

2] are there so many references to problems with the Bus here because, you guys like to work on your own bus and you share more info than other sites or do they indeed require more work than the "Plastic" coach?

Thanks, Larry

I saw "plastic" used here in reference to the usual motorhome, I'm not trying to be condescending.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

The potential increased cost of maintenence is directly connected to the greater complexity, capability and range of components.

Yes we love to disect here, probably more than other sites.

These campers are no different than any other mechanical device. Most are very reliable some are not.

[Kenneth Brewer]

1] is the cost of maintaining a Bus greater than that of a top of the line "Plastic" coach?

2] are there so many references to problems with the Bus here because, you guys like to work on your own bus and you share more info than other sites or do they indeed require more work than the "Plastic" coach?

My unsolicited comment/answer/opinion:

Keep in mind that the non 'plastic' coaches are almost all (there are only a few) commercial ('industrial') strength vehicles meant to last (w/maintenance, and overhaul of certain components) a million or two miles, by fleet operators, which means almost daily use hour after hour, day after day. Converters vary, and may go out of business, but in general, in my opinion, the much higher initial cost of the vehicle/shell means that materials and components used by converters tend also to be of better quality with longer life, and better performance. (Chassis/shell) parts and repairs for buses 20 years and older generally should not be a problem (thank goodness), even if the converter is not around or helpful.

Personally, I have driven (and owned a) large previously owned 'plastic' coaches and found that the difference in solidity, tightness, quietness (silence), wall flex, vibration, insulation. cowl and overhead dash shake & shudder, to say nothing of the response to poor/bad roads; potholes, road joints, etc. (even with far less mileage), when compared to what we are talking about here, amazing. Comparison of a 'plastic' coach that has high mileage with one of these should immediately illuminate the difference.

Finally, yes, there have been or may be problems that anyone would find annoying or maddening, but the cost of resolution seems to be far less a case of throwing good money after bad with bus type coaches. One can distinguish chassis/shell issues from converter/house components and concentrate on the latter when making a purchase decision.

That's my two cents worth.

[ajhaig]

Having never owned a "plastic coach" I can't offer any insight on the relative difference between the maintenance of a Prevost and a "plastic coach."

When buying a Prevost I think there is nothing more important than the maintenance history of the coach. Beware of shoddy/deferred maintenance and review the maintenance records of any coach you are seriously considering.

There is nothing more expensive than a "cheap" Prevost!

You have come to the right place if you are in the market for a Prevost, these guys really understand these coaches from a hands on perspective.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Larry,

How high is up? You have asked a question for which there is no correct answer. And you are reading into questions and comments posted here something that may not be true.

Go to the information sharing or the articles links on the POG home page. Pull up my Prevost Maintenance schedule. It is reasonably comprehensive because it lists all I can think of for preventative maintenance. I am known as being anal (hence the anal award and the A-1 name) but by adhering to my schedule through 2 buses in 18 years I find the cost to maintain the coach to be fairly predictable.

I do all my own work, and I throw away serviceable parts because they have reached the end of what I consider their life cycle to be. But I doubt if my maintenance would average $5000 a year even if someone was paid to do the work. Others will have to respond to the cost of having others do the work. I can give you very close estimates for parts costs and hours for all my maintenance tasks.

The key is in never getting behind the bus. If you opt to defer costs as a way of saving money you will still pay in the end. It will be reflected when you try to sell the coach or it will be reflected in unplanned or expensive repairs as a result of not doing preventive maintenance. My estimate above reflects a rebuilt engine and transmission because in 18 years I had one cracked cylinder head and opted to rebuild the entire engine (it had 250,000 and as it turned out did not need to be rebuilt) and one replaced transmission due to worn clutches from age. Spread those costs over 18 years and add in the maintenance listed on the schedule and I'm fairly sure the number is still in the ball park.

I read where normally scheduled oil changes for the Series 60 are 30,000 miles. I change mine every 5,000 miles (see where anal comes in?), so as an owner you can do the research and set up a schedule to your liking.

If you buy a cheap bus because it has been rode hard and put away wet all bets are off because you can be faced with some serious repair costs. Conversely, if you buy a well maintained coach with new tires and batteries you may not spend any serious money for several years. If you are not active in managing your maintenance and just turn the coach over to a service center the bill could take your breath away. You alone will decide what your maintenance costs will be.

As to the apparent multitude of problems your best preventive practice is to learn your coach and systems. Others have opted to learn where the key is and ignore the rest of the owner's manuals. As a result they ruin batteries, tires and other devices and then post here to find out why. A single dip switch setting on an inverter can convert a $3000 set of batteries into scrap in six months or less. Reading the owner's manual and setting the inverters to the proper settings for the type of batteries can extend the life of the batteries to 5 to 7 years. Running a tire with low pressures (20% according to two manufacturers) is almost akin to running them flat, a sure way to get to buy new tires.

Tell us where your focus is on a coach such as age, price range, type of features (slides, no slides, OTR, etc) and we can get specific in addressing your questions.

[Ray Davis]

Hi Larry,

I do think that we tend to share our problems here, more than we share our non-issues. If I have an issue, I generally post about it, whether I'm asking for help, or just griping to make myself feel better.

Rarely however do you find anyone post when a trip has gone smootly, and there are no extra repairs to be done.


So, if you go by the shear number of posts talking about problems or maintenance etc, I think you could get a skewed view.


Ray

[LarryB]

Ray, you hit on the question I was really asking. As I read through the topics in the forum I was left with the feeling that these buses sure need a lot of TLC. If as you said, the folks here like to share when ever they have problems and the focus is to help one another in the understanding and repair then I have a different take on what bus ownership is all about.

Thanks for input, Larry

[LarryB]

Jon, I am currently focused on a '97 Liberty Classic. I have not seen the bus in person as yet but will soon. I have an aviation background so I have an appreacition of complex system and their needs. I just don't want to spend all my time working on the Bus. Thus the reason for the question. I had my last coach to the point of only doing preventive work to keep thing running smoothly and I agree with you, that it is cheaper to fix it now as to fix it later. Larry

[dale farley]

Larry,

Ray is right about the fact that we talk more about our problems than our successes with the buses. Before I left home in early May, I changed my oil, transmission fluid, coolant and all filters. I also checked most everything on the bus. I took a week to drive from Florida to Yellowstone, and we have been living in the bus since 4 May.

I have replaced a connector ($89) on my shower door, because I broke it out of a little stupidity. I adjusted my hot water that comes through my shower faucet because I wanted it a little warmer. I disassembled my black water valve this week to make sure there was nothing wrong with it.

If you read the forum, there were many, many posts about these 3 very minor issues. Actually, none of them were serious, and the only thing that really needed to be repaired was the latch I broke on my door. My point is that I have basically used my Prevost for 4 1/2 months now with almost no problems and $89 in parts. At no time, have I made this point until you raised the issue. I will be leaving here Wednesday morning headed to the rally in Spearfish, and I have been checking everything on the bus for the last few days.

I agree with Jon about preventive maintenance. Anything can happen at any time, but I try to minimize my instances by doing the maintenance before I leave home.

[LarryB]

Thanks Dale, I think you and Ray have set me straight about the forum. I'm not used to folks on a forum being honest about their problems and showing a real willingness to share knowledge and to help.

Over at another forum I lurk on, there is a lot of talk but usually not much about maintaining their coaches. If some problem does arise it is usually blamed on the manufacture, and the subject turns to 'how do we get the Company to pay.'

I like this Forum much better and, once I settle on a bus I'm sure I'll have many more questions.

Thanks again, Larry

Thanks, Larry

[Ray Davis]

Larry,

I understand you may be looking at the Liberty at Steve Bennet's shop? It was previously owned by a POG member here. I have personally seen it, and it's a very nice coach, and I'm sure it would treat you well for many years.

The previous owners were full-timers, so it is well used, but also well taken care-of.

They did some tile work in that coach which is stunning.


Ray

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Dale that is one of, better posts. Give us an update when you roll back in the barn.

We should make an effort to share more similar trips and stories. I can see how many of our discussions might give newcomers pause.

[LarryB]

Ray, that is correct, I am going to Ca. Coach this week to see Steve and the '97 Liberty.
You seem to have some knowledge of this bus, what more can you tell me?

Larry

[Ray Davis]

Larry,

I have *some* knowledge about it, but nothing extensive. The coach was owned by Lee Bornstein who is an active POG member. He traded for a new slide coach. Evidently the bus was then purchased, and brought to Steve's for re-sale by a guy who buys and sells these buses quickly.

So, Lee and Barabara were the last "real" owners if you will. They lived in the bus full-time, and maintain a slot out at the ORA in Las Vegas. I know they traveled the country extensively doing dog shows, so the bus has been driven regularly (which is a good thing).

Last January (2007) Lee posted that he was adding tile in the bus. http://forum.prevostownersgroup.com/showthread.php?t=822

I was recently searching for a bus to replace mine which had been totaled by fire damage. Since Steve Bennett is very close to me, I was looking a couple of coaches at his shop. I did look at Lee's coach, and thought it really looked nice. The tile work was really done well, and I like it much better than the normal mirror work that is in many coaches.

I think the coach looks great. For a first coach, I think it would be a great coach. I also cannot recommend Steve highly enough. He knows these units, and his support is wornderful.

I don't think you could do wrong with a 97 Liberty.


So, that's about what I know. Perhaps superficial, but knowing Lee and Steve, I feel much more confident than I would on an unknown bus.

If you're coming in this weekend, I would love to meet you. Perhaps I can stop by Steve's when you're in town?

Ray

[dalej]

Larry, In case you didn't know MangoMike on this site has a 97 Liberty for sale. He kept good care of it, he just got H3 fever the way it sounded.

[LarryB]

Ray, thanks for the info on the Bus. I would be happy to have you come by Steve's for a meeting, Look forward to meeting you.

Larry

[LarryB]

Dale, yes I did notice that Mike has a '97 Liberty for sale. He is on the east coast some where I think. Ca. Coach is still a jaunt from me but relatively easy to get to. [I hate riding in the back of airplanes]
If things don't work out then maybe I'll contact Mike.

Larry

[Sid Tuls]

Hey Larry, Take the extra time and go check your options. I think half the fun is seeing all thats out there. I know for myself it took a few differant trips. My advice is find the one you think that you can't do without and then go home and weigh out all your options. I know I almost bought the wrong bus because I was so darn excited because my wife said sure honey go ahead. Anyway have fun in your search.:D

[LarryB]

Sid, good advise. I have been looking for over a year and came very close to buying twice. One didn't pass a Marathon pre-purchase inspection, a basket case as it turns out and the other is just to odd to describe.

I have narrowed my search and hope to close in on "The Right Bus" soon.
But as it turns out, I have to put this all on hold for a couple of months and deal with some pressing personal things--giving me more time to monitor this forum.

Larry

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Just to put your mind at ease that vintage of Liberty Classic is extremely reliable and simple to maintain.

It has a lot of features and systems, and it does need routine preventive maintenance, but the systems are very robust and reliable and I can tell you from experience with my somewhat more complex 97 Elegant Lady that unless you let minor issues escalate you will have a high degree of reliability, and ease of repairs when things do need attention.

[rfoster]

I will have to second the commets made by John in the previous post. I owned a 97 Liberty from 05 to 08. It was an absolute pleasure to own and use. Extremely dependable and with the folks you are involved with I would have to give you two thumbs up on considering this coach.

Liberty Coach is a great company with great products and super supportive of their coach owners.

And like Ray said Steve from California Coach and Lee B (previous owner)are both POG members and come with the highest marks for honesty and integrity. It would be tough to go wrong with this combo.

And if you dont get the job done there, go East and See Mangos Coach, Same ingredients, it s a Liberty too!

[JBBaby]

Larry and Ray,
we are new POG members and a new owner of a 2000 XLV Lady Liberty Classic. We also purchased from Steve T AZ Luxury Coach. He was amazing to work with and helped us with the silliest of issues on our first night in the coach. Took our call immediately and had us comfy and enjoying the starts outside within minutes. Steve is very knowledgeable and wa every open and honest with us throughout the entire experience. We had owned a 1995 Luxor for 8 years and put more $ in parades than what we initially paid. But, the coach kept letting us down before every trip. We were constantly replacing batteries due to how the coach was wired. Regardless of how we stored it, nothing resolved the simple issues of having simple 12v/24v shut off switches. It was a great coach on the road, but every time we watched a Prevost go by us or pass us on the other side of the road we would say to each other, “that’s the way to go”. It just took a few back surgeries to get myself capable of camping again and some time to find what we felt was a needle in a haystack. We wanted a fully riveted coach with a north south bed and wanted much more storage than our old Luxor was missing. There was no way to full time in the Luxor. We also wanted a usable shower and I needed a seat to help me when showering. It was not easy to find, but all the sudden one day I found Prevost Stuff and to my amazement there it was. A beautiful riveted N/S with a vanity and shower with a seat and tons of storage. 6 closets and 22 dresser drawers throughout the coach in the back. The coach was well known by Steve and he was open and honest about the little things that were not perfect. He worked hard to get us delivery ready within a couple weeks. My only disappointment was not getting all the exterior lights converted to Led prior to delivery. We have dim and overly bright lighting and I think converting the lighting would have given us a nearly perfect package. But, hindsight is what it is. Welcome to POG. I am spending at least and hour and sometimes two each day just reading, absorbing and learning from the amazing folks on this forum. The aggregate know-how, experience, and willingness to help is eye opening and makes you feel part of a family of owners with a core passion. Happy to be here and finally part of this group of incredible people.

[PrevostNewbie]

My friend, welcome, FYI you are commenting on a post from 2008. Also put your Coach info in your signature.

[Fratto]

Glad to see you two found the right coach and the right POG group!

[prevonubie]

Welcome Larry and Ray! You will find a wealth of knowledge here!