Insurance info

[sawdust_128]

I am shopping hard for insurance and would appreciate any referals on agents and/or agencies you have had good experience with.

Liberty suggested Gilbert RV Insurance, Inc.


I picked up on Explorer from number of you on the forum and have quotes from them .

Lastly, I see reference to "Thumb" in many of the posts on the forum. Who/what is "Thumb"?

As always, any assistance appreciated and hopefully I will be able to discern the "made up" answers from the good stuff.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I have no knowledge of anybody except National Interstate through Explorer.

Four years ago through an error by Carrier my rear engine compartment on our first bus was involved in a fire. They stepped up to the plate and never blinked. They authorized Prevost to make the bus right, including a full replacement of the hoses in the AC system since it was high internal AC system pressures that blew the seal that started the chain of events leading to the fire.

My bus got repaired and my only expense was the deductible. The bus was fully and properly restored with no resistance on the insurance company's part.

[BUSTER]

I had a total loss on my Buster from the hangar file in April. My policy was with Gilbert. Gilbert really had NOTHING to do with the claim...told me to call a 800 #. The policy was with Assurant out of Phoenix. They were EXCELLENT to deal with. Have Explorer and Gilbert give you a quote and ask who they are placing the policy with. BTW...I did engage an attorney based on the advice of the POG menbers and it was very good advice. It cost me $1800...however I was paid the full policy amount less the deductible.

Still looking for the next Buster.

[sawdust_128]

I have checked with every one of the referenced companies. However, Explorer is quoting "Continental Car Club" for roadside emergency service. I don't find much on them at all and the most informative one was a very negative rant.

Gilbert has something for emergency roadside and will send me "stuff" on it. However, it sounds like it is exclusively a "towing to a repair center" offering. What do you think?

Have never done this type of coverage before, any comments, suggestions, advise?

I've considered taking it all and evaluating and adjusting coverages in 6 months.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Please realize you are talking about two different things in your last post, But I am sure you were aware of that?

Continental Car is a RoadSide assistance program, and really has nothing to do with the overall bus Insurance you originally asked for information on.

We have Explorer Insurance on the bus, and Coach-Net for Roadside assistance http://coachnet.coach-net.com/cnet/index.htm.

Luckily I haven't needed the Explorer Insurance yet.

Gary S.

[tdelorme]

I have checked with every one of the referenced companies. However, Explorer is quoting "Continental Car Club" for roadside emergency service. I don't find much on them at all and the most informative one was a very negative rant.

Gilbert has something for emergency roadside and will send me "stuff" on it. However, it sounds like it is exclusively a "towing to a repair center" offering. What do you think?

Have never done this type of coverage before, any comments, suggestions, advise?

I've considered taking it all and evaluating and adjusting coverages in 6 months.

You really don't need a roadside assistance policy. My policy with National Interstate, written by Explorer will cover any towing or emergency repair that any roadside assistance policy will cover. If I need help, I check the "rig down" website and call for help. That is all a roadside company can do and I rather be in contact with the tow company myself rather than depend on some outside source. If it makes you feel more secure, buy the additional coverage, but you don't need it with National Interstate.

[lewpopp]

Ted, to my recollection, Explorer does not cover vehicle retrieval without the Continental Car coverage. We should clarify this. I just dropped the FMCA co for towing and signed up with Explorer . Straighten us out.

[tdelorme]

Ted, to my recollection, Explorer does not cover vehicle retrieval without the Continental Car coverage. We should clarify this. I just dropped the FMCA co for towing and signed up with Explorer . Straighten us out.


Lew, we're in Florida right now and my notes and policy are in the bus over across the bay. I will go over tomorrow and confirm what I was told when I bought the poicy. Stay tuned.

[tdelorme]

OK, here is what my policy states:

Towing Reimbursement, "Reasonable Expense"

A $5 premium add on.

Towing is to the nearest qualified facility.

No deductable applies to this coverage.

Emergency Expense Coverage, up to $750 each occurrence, $1 add on

Recepts required, no deductable.

I see no need for an additional "roadside assistance" policy.

If I need a wrecker, I want to talk to the wrecker operator myself. A lot of folks have a wrecker show up that is unable to properly handle a bus. Towing a Prevost is a whole different deal than towing a "motorhome" and you want a professional towing outfit, not some amateur wrecker driver.

[Jeff Bayley]

I'm in process of insurring all 3 of my busses and I think I'm going to use Explorer. Just called for quote but no one available and have to wait for call back. I THINK, the last time I check on insuring my 1999 shell it was a no go since it doesn't have living quarters, kitchen, etc. they won't insure it. I mainly just want insurance for theft, fire, vandelism, etc. Any suggestions on how to get that insured ?

Also, I'm tagged in Montana but not under a seperate LLC. It's under my regular business which is a C corp. Bennett Law Office got my business licences to practice in the state on Montana to make it all legit. I did that as a business expense write off since I actually traveling the country calling on customers. Now that it's paid off, I'm wondering if I should get Bennett to make a seperate LLC to distance my company from liability. I'm not residing in CA anymore anyway which is where the C corp is based and I'm in process of opening up a new Florida Corp where I live. It can get complicated. This is one thing I need expert advise on so I don't write a policy with Explorer that they can later on come back and find loop holes in to not pay.

I also called Progressive for a quote which was about $1,800 a year but thier sysem doesn't really have drop downs for our coches and the particular converters. I have a feeling I'm going to want to go with Explorer, again, to avoid any pitfalls that Progressive might come back and find that makes the policy illiget. They'll take my money with no questions asked but if it comes time to pay a claim, my gut tells me that I'm better with Explorer.

[lewpopp]

Jeff, Just a couple of comments.. You won't listen to me anyway, you didn't on the Moto-Sat, why should you here.

Be careful about really operating the bus out of Montana strictly for business. I may not have this exact, but if you are, you may get charged for road tax and they can go back to when Jesus was a corporal.

Is there a 3BC? A three Bus Club?

[Loc]

We have our bus insurance through Explorer. We have had one claim and they were fantastic to work with. I got a quote from State Farm the other day out of curiosity and it was much lower. JDUB (I mean a member who shall remain nameless) had good luck with them on a claim.

[Jeff Bayley]

The quote from Explorer was around $400 lower than Progressive. It's make me nevous that they Progressive would list the coach as "other" and it really isn't in their system where as Explorer knows what a Prevost is. Plus they were cheaper.

Lew- I don't know why you say I didn't listen on the Motosat. I have the update plug sitting right here. I have to wait until I pull the coach out of the driveway again to try it since my yard has not clear shot of the sky from the trees.

Anything furher anyone can add on insurance still welcomed.

[lewpopp]

Jeff, you thought you knew more than good ol' Lew and you headed for Lazy Days and ignored what I said. If you had done what I said in the beginning, I could have saved you 2 hours labor and a bunch of fuel. THE END.

[Jeff Bayley]

Lew- Maybe your right and I got the timing mixed up. Maybe I failed to read the reply you gave before making the trip to Lazy Days and yes it was a waste of time and fuel as you said.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

In looking into insuring our new to us bus, we have found that to get agreed value coverage one must offer proof of that value.

I guess you would call it an appraisal.

My question is, how/where can one obtain that service and value?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I used my purchase documentation. Unfortunately while we think our coaches are valuable, they are likely never to exceed the value we paid.

If you made a hell of a deal, such as buying from someone who was making a distress sale then the best proof of value would come from Liberty or a dealer in coaches. I would expect your seller would help you in this regard.

[Ray Davis]

Just an FYI. I had an agreed-upon price in my policy with my previous Marathon. When the fire happened, they still went through the process of trying to verify the value of the coach. I would have thought that an agreed upon price (less than 6 months since I had insured it), would have meant, I get the agreed-upon price. Not necessarily so. Ultimately I got the full value of my policy (minus deductable), but not without some time spent in justifying the agreed-value.

Ray

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

"Mr Oliver", said he had never been asked that question before, but that if I wrote up a document he would sign it.

I don't think the Ins. Co would buy that, so I am trying to think of something else.

I thought of Liberty, and have not inquired as of yet.

I thought someone in the group might have used a private appraiser they could recommend.

The two buses being totaled in the storage fire make me think that the agreed value is important.
If the bus is depreciated annually from the purchase price it wont be many years until it is worth very little in the eyes of the insurance company, resulting in basically totaling it out for the smallest accident.:eek::(

If I have the wrong idea please enlighten me.

[Ray Davis]

The two buses being totaled in the storage fire make me think that the agreed value is important

I believe that both Mike and I received the full value of our policies (minus deductable), but it wasn't without a little fight.

Ray

[Orren Zook]

If or when you have a loss -your- personal insurance experience will all come down to company underwriting your policy, your agent and the adjuster you have to deal with.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

If you over insure your coach you will automatically put yourself at odds with the insurance company if you have a loss. If the price you wish to insure it for is above the current market value for your coach you must document and prove why that is the case. It is coincidental but there are "twins" to our vintage coaches in the market and their selling prices are going to be the value of our coaches.

Your premium is based on the insured value to an extent.

If you under insure then you are potentially at risk to lose your coach. A minor accident may allow an insurance company the opportunity to write you a check for the whole coach, take it and flip it to someone who will buy it as is for the insured value or maybe a little less but not for a difference that is more than the cost of repairs. You get the insured value, but it is not enough to replace the coach.

I suspect the financial turmoil now gets everybody edgy and insurance companies probably do not want someone over insuring a coach and then driving it off a cliff so they can make a few bucks.

[ronwalker]

Jim,

You asked about a private appraisal company. ADP Autosource appraisals are accepted by many insurance companies. Anticipate 10 days or so after emailing numerous photos and completing a full equipment list form giving condition and materials. They closely compare your coach to similar ones on the market to come up with as accurate a valuation as possible. Cost was $200 a few years ago. Contact Don Clark in Oregon at (800) 351-3133, ext. 4218 or the specialty department at extension 7452.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Thanks Ron, that seems to be a good lead. I will follow up on it and let you know the outcome.

JIM

[Ray Davis]

Jim, I'm curious, it seems you are going to a lot of trouble on this insurance stuff. With all of my buses, I have insured them for a reasonable value, without requiring appraisals.

I know you got a great deal on your bus, but you will probably have a tough sell if you are trying to get it to appraise and insure it for a lot higher value. I would ask Steve Bennett for a reasonable number, but would guess off-the-cuff that you would have no problem insuring it for around $250k.

Given that we're seeing 1999 models now going in the $260k to $270k range, I don't think you can reasonably insure it for much more than that.

Ray

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

It is my experience that when it comes to insurance pay outs, all you get is what is described in the policy.

I agree that you need a good agent on your side to get that amount, but he can not negotiate or get you more than what is spelled out in the policy. He can only make sure you get what the policy calls out.

You can insure a bus in different ways. Two follow.

1: For the purchase price, with the bus value depreciating at some rate determined by the insurance co. over the years. This is easiest and most common.

2: For an agreed upon bus value, which does not depreciate over the years, but must be the fair appraised value, by a bona fide entity. Not the purchaser.
This method is more complicated (time consuming), but is necessary to protect ones self so as to get a fair treatment as time passes if a claim should arise.
Not all insurance cos' insure by this method.

A hypothetical situation looked at both ways.

A bus is purchased and within the first year of ownership some tragedy arises and the bus is totaled out by the ins. co.. The beneficiary with the help of his agent gets 100% of the policy minus the deductible. (because the bus value is depreciated annually by the ins co. and you are still within the first year)

A bus is purchased and again without thought to the future, is insured at purchase price, which will be depreciated by the ins. co., after say arbitrarily six years, there is a tragedy and the ins co. totals the bus. The beneficiary with the help of his agent gets some lesser depreciated value than the purchase price, minus the deductible.

A bus is purchased and is insured for the agreed value of the bus as determined by an appraiser.
After time passes say six years, again there is a tragedy and the bus is totaled by the ins. co., the beneficiary with the help of his agent will get 100% of the policy, ie the original agreed dollar amount of the policy minus the deductible.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Ray, I am only looking to insure at the fair market value, which I think is a little more than my good deal price.
I think the only way for me to do that is to get an appraisal.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Jim I hope you do not take as long to go down and get it as it took you to buy it. I don't think the folks could handle that:rolleyes:

[phorner]

Jim,

I don't think that you are risking anything with an appraisal (other than the cost) and it does give you a number from an authoritative source that would be easy to defend if you ever need to.

You might want to also compare the appraisal with any documented pricing that Liberty Coach is currently asking for their coaches of the same model and vintage. These documents should give you a pretty accurate number that hopefully both you and the insurance company will be comfortable.

And hopefully you'll NEVER need it !

Best wishes on picking up your new bus.... you must be getting pretty excited about now!

[Ray Davis]

Ray, I am only looking to insure at the fair market value, which I think is a little more than my good deal price.
I think the only way for me to do that is to get an appraisal.

Best of luck in this Jim. I wouldn't have thought you need an appraisal. Obviously it can't hurt.


Ray

[Jon Wehrenberg]

It is my opinion that the collected knowledge on this site is more capable than any appraiser at providing a fair market value for a coach.

First, if anyone goes through the P-stuff ads, Coopers, RV trader, plus countless other sites and dealer ads it will reveal prices are all over the place. What is not revealed is how long some of these coaches have been on the market. The Z ship, a late rivet model Liberty had an asking price that was obscene. Yet an appraiser will use prices such as that to conclude a fair market value.

Compare the selling prices. The real selling prices, not what was put down on paper reflecting an inflated trade in price so the deal could be financed. Those represent real market value.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Jim I hope you do not take as long to go down and get it as it took you to buy it. I don't think the folks could handle that:rolleyes:

If you want sheep, just ask for them! :p:D or did you.:D

[lewpopp]

Let me ask a question that I have about my insurance on my 90.

I purchased it for $195 six years ago and they still list the value of it on my policy as $195. Can I assume that if I have a disaster and total it, they will only give me the depreciated value or will they give me the $195. I'm sure they will give me the deprec value. You don't get sumpin for nuttin.

I will bring that to the attention of Explorer and perhaps my cost would be less, huh? I doubt that too.

[Ray Davis]

Lew,

I can only say what happened in my case with the fire. I had an agreed-upon price policy. When it came time to total the coach, they still went through a period of attempting to value the coach. Luckily, I had only purchased it 6 months prior, and was able to justify the valuation of the coach.

My guess is that the would look at the market, and try to determine a "fair" price, but that's a guess.

Ray

[garyde]

Lew, If the Insurance policy does not say specifically the depreciating tables, then I guess it will be up to them .

[hhoppe]

Lew: I think the argument would be if you did not drop my premium payments year by year to reflect a lower value then you owe me the full original apraisal amount.

[tdelorme]

A lot of us have coverage with Explorer. Would it be too much to ask for Explorer to have an insurance seminar in OKC? Seems there are a number of different opinions about our coverage and it would be good to get real world answers to our questions.

[Darl-Wilson]

I've have National Ins through Explorer. When I received my Ins bill this year it was essentially the same premium as last year. Since several POG members posted premiums less than my $1,600+. I called Explorer for a quote with a different company. I had to leave a message with a live person. When I didn't receive a response for more than a week I called back and left a message again with a live person. That was in the morning and I was told I would be called promptly. That didn't happen. I then told Jim Skiff about the treatment I was getting from one of our sponsors. He said he would call them. More than a month has passed since my initial call so tomorrow afternoon I will be calling someone else. Explorer, are you listening? My office phone is 866-286-4026 and my cell is 775-742-0877 BEFORE NOON PDT.:mad:

[phorner]

Darl,

If they're giving you this much of a hassle now, when you're trying to pay them a premium, I don't want to think about how you may be treated if you were trying to get a claim settled!

I sure hope they come up with a good explanation as to why your calls have been ignored.

[Darl-Wilson]

I've have National Ins through Explorer. When I received my Ins bill this year it was essentially the same premium as last year. Since several POG members posted premiums less than my $1,600+. I called Explorer for a quote with a different company. I had to leave a message with a live person. When I didn't receive a response for more than a week I called back and left a message again with a live person. That was in the morning and I was told I would be called promptly. That didn't happen. I then told Jim Skiff about the treatment I was getting from one of our sponsors. He said he would call them. More than a month has passed since my initial call so tomorrow afternoon I will be calling someone else. Explorer, are you listening? My office phone is 866-286-4026 and my cell is 775-742-0877 BEFORE NOON PDT.:mad:

Yesterday morning, before 9 am, Explorer Ins called me and apologized for dropping the ball. They had a quote from Progressive which was about $1,300 per yr higher than Nationwide. I "re-upped" with NW for the next yr. FWIW, the ins premium, with towing, agreed coverage of $245k, was a tad over $1,600. Up until this episode I have very good luck with Explorer and have to give them credit for reading the Forum and being responsive to POG members. :D

Darl

[phorner]

That's good to hear :)

[aggies09]

I signed up with Explorer last week and my experience was very good. Kraig Kelly was the rep that I talked to and he was very easy to deal with and very responsive.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

When I was scrambling to get everything together for driving the bus I decided on a roadside assistance policy. I chose the one by Motorsports Advantage. I thought it was better than Coach Net as it also covers a toad or trailer.
Coach net does not cover toad or trailer. The two companies are somehow associated, I think Motorsport is a division of Coach Net, but there is a differentiation in what they cover.

I am mentioning this because some of you may not know that your toad or trailer are not covered under your present insurance, or that there is a company that will cover them. The premium was only slightly higher.

JIM

[LarryB]

Jim, I have Coach Net on my toad. When I called Coach Net to cancel after selling our coach this last Spring, the Rep I spoke with talked me into retaining the coverage on the toad, at a reduced rate.

I guess the deal is; if you don't like the answer, ask someone else.

Larry

[lewpopp]

I used Coach Net a few times on my cars that were on the original agreement with no problems. Cars are not extra as of a year or so ago. I'm covered by Contenental Car thru Explorer now.

Which remeinds me of something I asked on this insurance subject a while ago about reducing the coverage on the coach as it depreciates. The insurance co will only cover you for the replacement, not what you paid for it 6 years ago. I reduced my coverage to be safe enough so they could replace mine with the coverage I have. Saved myself some serious Lewbucks and I'm still well within the ballpark.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Jim, I am afraid you are incorrect about Coach Net not covering your toads.

And man am I glad your wrong for once, I thought sure I had screwed up again? :eek: :D The below information was taken from their website:

Benefits Included With YOUR Membership, Available 24/7!

RV Technical Assistance
RV Service Appointment Assistance
Dispatch Service
Towing
Mobile Mechanic
Jumpstart
Lockout
Tire Change
Tire Locator
Includes all family vehicles owned rented or borrowed
Includes children age 24 or younger licensed to drive

Gary S.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Well, I don't mind being wrong.
Sorry to have given bad information.
I needed coverage and could only go by what I was told by the salesman selling the product.
Thanks Gary for checking on your end. In the future I will not be so hasty.

JIM

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

It is a shame the salesman did not know his own product, and gave you the wrong information but I am know that happens all the time. :confused:

I hope the road side assistance product you purchased is just what you need, if and when you ever need it?



HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO EVERYONE AT POG

Gary S.

[Yankee802]

Jim, I am afraid you are incorrect about Coach Net not covering your toads.

And man am I glad your wrong for once, I thought sure I had screwed up again? :eek: :D The below information was taken from their website:

Benefits Included With YOUR Membership, Available 24/7!

RV Technical Assistance
RV Service Appointment Assistance
Dispatch Service
Towing
Mobile Mechanic
Jumpstart
Lockout
Tire Change
Tire Locator
Includes all family vehicles owned rented or borrowed
Includes children age 24 or younger licensed to drive

Gary S.

This confuses me, maybe I'm being to analytcal but it would seem that towing of the RV is covered, and ALL your personal/family vehicals are covered, but does not state that towing OF your vehicals by the RV are covered. :confused: I guess it could be assumed that it's implied, but when it comes to insurance/legal matters, I assume nothing, and implications are not facts. I'm not saying this isn't the case here, just asking the question. :) If it doesn't state it in your policy, it's not covered.

I'll be watching this tread closely, being I will be shopping for a replacement for Progressive and my $1700(+)yr premium on an '84 coach, sounds like I'm paying way too much. I'm also concerned with the financial stability of any prospective insurance company due to the market and how well they handle claims. I pray to God I never have a claim of any kind, but I want to know if I do, I'm in good hands (no pun intended).

Geoff

[Ray Davis]

I believe the list is a listing the services offered by the policy, NOT what is allowed by the policy holder.

They offer "towing" as a service. This is a completely separate from how you are using your vehicles. They don't indicate "driving", as that's not a service, but how you would use your vehicle. I think it's fairly safe that your tow vehicle is expected to be towed (or driven) and should be covered in either case.

Ray

[Yankee802]

Agreed, very good assumption, and I would probably make that conclussion as well, but I'd still check my idividual policy to make sure. :)

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

After taking a drive to do some thinking and recollecting ( my best thinking is while driving ) on the things I said and also the responses to them, I recall more specifically what it was that I was trying to achieve by going with Motorsports Advantage.

So to say right at the get go, with Coach Net, YES, your personal vehicles towed or driven are covered for $99.50, as Gary indicated in his post. A towed trailer is also covered for tire service only, and nothing else. Therein lies where I miss spoke. I said they were not.

I did however want a trailer to be covered and when I expressed that desire the sales gal referred me to her sister co., Motorsports advantage with all the same coverage as Coach Net plus trailer coverage (for such as tire, bearing, axle or suspension troubles) for the total premium of $109.50.

Since the question was asked and I do not know what I will do in the long run, I thought for an extra ten dollars I would go for as complete a coverage as I could.

My original post should have read:

If you are wanting complete trailer coverage there is a co. called Motorsports advantage that will sell it to you in their roadside assistance insurance package. It is the Coach Net policy by her sister co. with the trailer added for only $10.00.

JIM