No Spark Here

[0533]

I seem to be getting my share of nagging problems, I guess it comes with the new bus ownership and several months at sea.

Last night Pam started the dishwasher at about 10 PM and we went to bed, all was good until the Auto Gen started and took over the AC powers supply to the bus.

I assumed we had tripped the shore power at the outside box. went out and examined the breakers, all good, looked at the surge protector all good but no AC to the bus.

I reset the main shore power breaker at the bus, reset both inverters (trace) to factory defaults reset the Aux DC breaker (Marathon) and all sub breakers, no AC to the inverters. I have AC to my shore main breaker and when I disconnect the shore power light and beeper goes off but still no power to the inverters.

On a Marathon there is a device called a T-50 load protector that manages over and under voltages to both the Main and Aux panels and I was wondering if this could be the source of the problem??

I have checked all values on the inverters, all events, nothing seems out of order, but there is no AC power to the inverters or coming through the inverters.

If the inverters do not like the power they see its my understanding they will not allow it to flow through the inverters to the various equipment??? I thought that the surge protector also made these decisions as well?? I assumed if the surge protector allowed the power to pass through it the power was good to enter the bus?? Wrong/right???

I am running the genset no problem all is normal and we are getting ready to head over the border to Maine.

Any thoughts would be valuable. I see nothing whatsoever wrong with any values at the inverters.

Thanks.

Bruce

[Ray Davis]

Does the internal T-50 have status lights or panel to indicate whether or not you are getting good power at that point? If you don't have one, you might consider getting an external one, just to be able to pre-check external campsites before plugging in. Best price seems to be at tweetys.com.

ray

[Jerry Winchester]

I had a similar problem on a recent trip and it turned out to be the power at the pole. Both legs were showing voltage, but one would not supply any amperage. The lights were all working on the load box, the inverters showed line voltage, but with all the "stuff" on in the bus, the generator would start because it wasn't getting enough amps from the pole.

We swapped spots and the problem went away.

Also, our coach has an inverter bypass so you can go straight to shore power if needed.

[Alek&Lucia]

Bruce,

We have internal built in protection, but I'm still using this:
http://www.tweetys.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=6771

Alek

[nrhareiner]

Good morning Alek,

The surge protector that you are using may give you some answers. There is an readout on the front. It will go through the Hertz, volts, and amps from both legs. After that there is a readout of any errors, E0 being none. The description of what each error code means is on front of unit. It may be that that unit is not allowing the passing of electricity to the bus.

[grantracy]

I have the same surge protector,one word of advice : it takes several minutes for it to run through its diagnostic process before it allows shore power to the coach. I thought mine was defective( even calling the manufacturer) who asked me to review the codes and advise them, in an aside the tech then asked me if I had been allowing it to run through its cycle. No wonder they couldnt find anything wrong when I sent it back the first time.

[0533]

I had a similar problem on a recent trip and it turned out to be the power at the pole. Both legs were showing voltage, but one would not supply any amperage. The lights were all working on the load box, the inverters showed line voltage, but with all the "stuff" on in the bus, the generator would start because it wasn't getting enough amps from the pole.

We swapped spots and the problem went away.

Also, our coach has an inverter bypass so you can go straight to shore power if needed.
Wish that was the case for us. We moved to a new location yesterday and still have no power at the inverters.

I have been able to determine that the problem is in the bus. We are at a new location and there is no power to the inverters.

I have also spoken to Leon at Marathon and we have established that there are 2 possible items that cause this problem, one is the PS260 transfer switch and the other is the actual 60 second timer (square D timer).

I have had both of these items fedexed to me for delivery today. This morning I am heading over to ACE hardware to get a multimeter so that I can check the power at these 2 locations before I install them.

The timer is in the Auto Shore Disable box, or the Shore J High Voltage box. It appears that the "Aux Disable" function is effected by these items. When the T-50 Load Manager (Marathon feature) sees an overload the Aux breaker will trip and this will require a reset of the entire system. It appears that the PS260 board, 1"X 4"s has probably failed and possibly the timer.

I will report back this afternoon if I am successful in determining and solving the problem.

Bruce

[merle&louise]

Can anyone venture a guess as to the CAUSE of this problem?

When changing from generator power to shore power do you turn off ACs, washer/dryer, stove, etc. first? I think that we are supposed to. Could failing to do this damage a contactor in the auto switching equipment?

Just a thought.

[tdelorme]

Bruce the transfer switch is more than likely the problem. I would replace it first and see if you don't power up. It goes without saying that you need to unplug the coach and turn off the gen set before starting to work on your electrical system.

[0533]

I have the super duty Tweety surge protector and was using it when I experienced the problem.

I did however forget to change the inverter load from 50 amps to 15 amps per leg, as I was using a 30 amp outside power source at the time.

Pam ran the dishwasher (had run it a few times while at this campground along with the washing machine being careful with all other loads) before going to bed, we had powered down and about an hour later the generator comes on, the load was too great for the T-50 load manager we think. If this is the case the T-50 Load manager shouts down the Aux Breaker and requires a reset to get it back up, but only after reducing the loads. I did both, no power. I do however believe I am getting power to and through my transfer switch. From the transfer switch the power goes to the PS260 board and Square D timer, with a 60 second delay before sending the power to the inverters for examination and distribution. Leon at Marathon says that he believes the failure ( he says this is a common failure point) is at this location. We will see once I get started sorting this out.

The rain is coming down in sheets here in Eastern maine, can't get Directv, barely getting my emails out, and the fog is thicker than soup.

One good bit of news, I put 140 gallons onboard yesterday at $4.09 over $2 less than the last fill, of course I am burning it up through my genset now, but having fun.

[dalej]

Bruce, I thought your last fill was free!

[0533]

Bruce, I thought your last fill was free!
We did get a $20 grocery discount coupon and a $700.19 charge and lots of new friends in Canada.

[truk4u]

Tuga,

I always take the load off the system before I hook or unhook the shore power or go to generator. I push all the A/C temps up until they shut off, turn off the electric water heaters and sometimes shut the chargers off. I have found that plugging in to shore power with all these systems demanding power at once is not a good idea and can put one leg at or near the 50 amp max. Don't know if it's necessary, but I never have power issues, so it seems to work.

[phorner]

Just a thought, but try it without the Tweety's surge protector. I purchased a Progressive Industries P-50 at the FMCA rally and it turned out to be defective. Worked fine the first time or two, but then went south.

They did immediately send me a replacement and life has been good since. When I described my problem, they didn't seem surprised, so maybe they are aware of a problem....

We're also in Maine and so far the weather has been miserable.... but hopefully getting better tomorrow!

[0533]

I am still without AC power. Have been on the phone with Marathon for hours, Leon has been very helpful, but it seems that we have some other issues that I need to sort out. Its very odd, as this system has functioned perfectly until the other day.

Anyway Leon had me use my meter to determine where the source of trouble might be.

We have power to the main switch in D/S bay 2 (Marathon) all is good on either side, we have power to and through all timers (60 sec. delay) we have power to all relays, but one set the in box labeled "Shore Automatic Disable" will not pull in, in other words when I activate the power to all 4 boxes (Marathon) The power once released from the Timer delay travels through the Shore Automatic Disable PS262 box then to the Auto Aux PS262, then the "Aux Box", the Main PS262 box and to the Inverters, and so on. I am experiencing a problem at the "Shore Automatic Disable Box" the first one, if these relays do not pull in the rest of the system (AC IN) will not happen. We worked on a fix until 7:30 PM last night, "No Joy".

Leon (Marathon Tech) recommended a temporary work around, which I agreed to, wish I had not, but I was tired and it sounded fine as leon said he has had owners drive this way across the US without trouble.

Anyway, Leon suggested I take a few calling cards, and place a folded card into each relay ("Shore Automatic Disable") to defeat the system and manually pull the relays in. I turned off all power to the bus, all knife switches everything and performed this simple task. Powered it back up, and it allowed the inverters to see "AC IN Good" at each remote box. Leon said do not run or try and run the generator while in this override mode. I made sure the genset was not on auto start etc, it will not come on unless I turn it on.

Its now 8PM and I take a shower and break out the first beer. Pam is now cooking away, using burners, microwave, all the goodies, the electric heat, its 57 degrees out, really powered up.

I sit down to take a look at my emails when I notice the DC lights starting to flicker. I get up and take a look at the readout on the dash, Marathon display. Main is 121 volts, Aux is 105, never seen 105 on this leg. and the amps are rising fast over 50 amps now, I make my way to the inverters to shut them down but too late they both shut off as a result of an over current event on the "Aux" inverter side, the same unit that I over road (cards in relays) to pull in the relays.
I went back out and into Bay 2, after cutting off all power and pulled out the calling cards and turned the genset back on.

I plan n calling Leon in Coburg at 11 am my time when they are at work, but I am now suspecting a problem with the load. I forgot to mention that I asked Pam to reduce the loads quickly, and when she did the loads reversed from one side to the other and the amps continued to go up. Anyway this sucks and I am still at square one.

Cannot figure out why the "Shore Automatic Disable Box" will not pull in the relays, and why when I defeat this system the inverters are now seeing low voltage, high amps (over current) on the AUX side and normal on the Main side.

Marathon has a system called a T-50 manager??? When the T-50 sees too much power demand on a leg (when using 30 amps as I was when this all happened) it will staqrt to automatically power down the system, and will in fact cut off the AUX side completely to protect the Main, (Frig etc) When and after you have reduced the load and restored power one must reset the "AUX" reset in the DC panel in the head to reset the T-50 device and put everything back to an even keel.

This is interesting as well. When you are using your Genset (marathon) the genset by passes the the T-50 device as it can handle the larger loads.

I am suspecting the T-50 device. Every time we turned on the AC power to test various fixes the Aux Reset came on, we reset it with no result, something says the Loads are not right, and when I defeat the system the loads are not correct.

Ant thoughts on this.

I plan to post some of my schematics and pics from the bay in a few minutes.

I am in Maine, far eastern Maine in Harrington Maine. Does anyone have a great electrical person nearby, and this could be in New England area Maine to New York if necessary.

[garyde]

Hi Bruce. Rick May at Parliment Coach is the guy you need to talk to.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Whoever you talk to or get for trouble shooting advice, Bruce, that person needs to get to the nitty gritty. It is sounding like you have a basic transfer switch but with some add-ons for circuit protection.

My guess based on zero knowledge of your system is that the starting point for trouble shooting has to be the basic system, and then start adding back into the equation the various system protection devices.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Bruce, another guy to get would be Nick Hessler.

He closed his business, but he might still be available.

The last number I have is; 541-321-2545.

Many in POG will attest to his knowledge.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

:D Maybe you shouldn't have announced you wanted to sell your bus.
You hurt her feelings, and now she's getting even. :eek:

[0533]

Thanks, I have met Rick, and will contact him if I am unable to get this sorted out today.

I have new parts coming in at noon today. Hope tonight is better