Anyone out there want to trade buses?

[dreadnought]

Howdy folks,
Haven't posted in a while, put my bus on the market some months back, cleaned it out, and waited for the offers to come rolling in. Waited, and waited.... Oh, we had offers, commercial real estate, sailboats, lots in Florida, etc. Got a business, don't like blow boats, and can't retire to Florida cause I got to pay alimony till 2020.
One guy was close but said he just couldn't stomach the price of fuel. I asked him how much he planned to travel.
Said he'd go to Florida for the winter and drive home in the spring. I suggested fuel was the least of his worries.
So...... anybody want to talk trade? My 05 Liberty double slide for your older model XL2. Your ride would probably need to be a 01 or 02 non slide for there to be enough difference in the money to make it interesting.

[garyde]

Hi Bill. I have attempted to Sale 4 RV's over the years with little to no success. Best left to pro's. Call Steve @ California Coach if you want to trade of sell. He can get it done.

[Victor Dimera]

I think you have a beautiful coach. I have looked at it many times when I pull up RVonline. I think one mistake many make is asking a big price and mentally say they will come down if need too. But when no one bites at a big price then the vast majority assume something is wrong. I think the best thing to do is ask your best price right at the beginning. Cut to the chase and the truly serious offers will come and they will buy. Now my opinion and mine only, I do think your coach is beautiful but I always thought it was overpriced. At $795K one would want at least "the look" of a newer one. The roof top awnings would have helped you greatly but even with that I think it would have still been priced a tad high. But sadly, Liberty even in a 2005 unit still has the old awning types. Most converters had already gone to roof top awnings and the current "look" by then. I am not downing your coach at all, but I do believe you were and if you are still asking the same price, are asking too much for it. I am just trying to be honest with you and hope you are not offended.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Why were all the tires replaced on an 05 with 50,000 miles:confused:

I agree with Victor, gorgeous bus.

[flyu2there]

Hey, its a really tough market out there. The guy with 100 or so million in the bank, if he decides he needs a bus he will buy a new one. Price is not his thing, neither is used!

Then you have the mid level guy who, if he has any business head at all, realizes that the economy is dead ripe with opportunity, a grip full of buys in real estate, stocks, commodoties and the like. An appreciating asset vice a depreciating asset...that's where they go. A home in Phoenix that was 400k two years ago can be bought for 180k today and it is evident that there are more people on the planet each day, in just a few years that investment should be worth nearly 600k...a phenomenal return. Run the numbers against a bus that a few years old...........

Finally you have the guy who really cannot afford it anyway and although the banks appear to have pleanty of money and that same money is fairly cheap, do to catastrophic losses in the recent past....well. Used to be a 670 FICO was good to go on something like a bus with a reasonable down, now it's more like a 775 or higher.

So, what I am trying to say is that although there are still buyers out there, they for the most part are going to be very picky and will probably end up with an emotional buy. While price is an issue, I think that it can be better said that the coach has to match the buyers wants, not necessarily needs, perfectly...then and only then can you get a sale. This is the guy who sees this market as a buying opportunity, which it is, although not the smartest thing he could do with his money today, hence emotion enters and he completes a transaction when that perfect coach appears.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

One blow Flyu2....., you hit the nail on the head!;):D

[jello_jeep]

Dang flyboy, I didn't know you were capable of higher thought!

Bravo!


The next thing you know you will be using tools & walking upright ! :) :p




Hey, its a really tough market out there. The guy with 100 or so million in the bank, if he decides he needs a bus he will buy a new one. Price is not his thing, neither is used!

Then you have the mid level guy who, if he has any business head at all, realizes that the economy is dead ripe with opportunity, a grip full of buys in real estate, stocks, commodoties and the like. An appreciating asset vice a depreciating asset...that's where they go. A home in Phoenix that was 400k two years ago can be bought for 180k today and it is evident that there are more people on the planet each day, in just a few years that investment should be worth nearly 600k...a phenomenal return. Run the numbers against a bus that a few years old...........

Finally you have the guy who really cannot afford it anyway and although the banks appear to have pleanty of money and that same money is fairly cheap, do to catastrophic losses in the recent past....well. Used to be a 670 FICO was good to go on something like a bus with a reasonable down, now it's more like a 775 or higher.

So, what I am trying to say is that although there are still buyers out there, they for the most part are going to be very picky and will probably end up with an emotional buy. While price is an issue, I think that it can be better said that the coach has to match the buyers wants, not necessarily needs, perfectly...then and only then can you get a sale. This is the guy who sees this market as a buying opportunity, which it is, although not the smartest thing he could do with his money today, hence emotion enters and he completes a transaction when that perfect coach appears.

[dreadnought]

Gary, Thanks for the advice, but I don't know if a left coast salesman would be able to move an east coast bus.
You know I bought a Liberty because everyone said it would move fast when you were ready to move on.

Joe, Front tires were replaced at 36,000 when I bought the bus. Drives were replaced at 45,000 as a precaution before an 8000 mile trip. Tag was replaced at 53,000 cause they were worn out!

Vic, Not at all offended, price has been at $749,500 for a while now. I paid a flat million for it in Sept 06, put it on the market 18 months later asking 800K, thinking 750K.
As the second owner I figured 25% was enough to lose in less than 2 years.

Fly, you're just way smarter than me. I did do one thing right though, I didn't buy it till I could afford to pay for it.

Jim, You seem like the logical prospect out of the bunch to me. Isn't it time you bought a bus?

[Ray Davis]

Wow, that depreciation really sucks. Add that to the current fuel and economy and it's a double whammy.

It's interesting, just yesterday I was speaking with a Marathon salesman. He indicated that coaches over the 1M mark were still selling well (lucky for them). He also indicated coaches under the 500k mark were really slow, and people were much more cautious about a purchase. He didn't happen to mention that area between 500k and 1M.

Ray

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Has anyone else experienced such short life out of their tires?

They should go 100,000 and then some, no sweat.

Bad time to be selling. I recently saw a 07 double slide (w/3bunks) for under 700. We have an 85 and offered ours to a fellow with a VIP limo and charter service for 68000 and still it did not sell.

If a seller who was not desperate to sell but is currently trying would decide to wait because of the current market; that would still not help. Bus gets older and we have not seen the bottom yet IMO.

We may be forced to keep ours and by the grace of God just might be able to. Wish us luck. Sure would beat giving it away.

[Ray Davis]

Joe, I sincerely hope you can keep yours. I had originally take my fire damage as a "way to get out", and wasn't planning on replacing. But, after only a few months, both my wife and I realized how much we enjoyed the bus (even though we couldn't use it all that much), especially the POG rallies, and getting together with POG friends.

I think about Dale (roadrunner), who sold his, and now has another coach, although he waited for the right deal to come along.

Obviously, these busses make absolutely zero practical sense, but they sure get under our skin.

I sincerely hope that we both have busses someday in the not too distant future, and the opportunity to meet at a POG rally, or some other place along the highway.

Ray

[Victor Dimera]

Gary, Thanks for the advice, but I don't know if a left coast salesman would be able to move an east coast bus.
You know I bought a Liberty because everyone said it would move fast when you were ready to move on.

Joe, Front tires were replaced at 36,000 when I bought the bus. Drives were replaced at 45,000 as a precaution before an 8000 mile trip. Tag was replaced at 53,000 cause they were worn out!

Vic, Not at all offended, price has been at $749,500 for a while now. I paid a flat million for it in Sept 06, put it on the market 18 months later asking 800K, thinking 750K.
As the second owner I figured 25% was enough to lose in less than 2 years.

Fly, you're just way smarter than me. I did do one thing right though, I didn't buy it till I could afford to pay for it.

Jim, You seem like the logical prospect out of the bunch to me. Isn't it time you bought a bus?

Is this your bus? http://www.rvonline.com/single-ad.asp?Recnumber=41065&SearchMethod=1
The price is showing 795K. If it is not your bus, then I am sorry for posting that you were asking 795K. Now that I or we know what you paid for it preowned, I will add this that with Featherlite offering brand new XLIIs for under a million and with recent closures of Royale and Legendary unloading brand new XLIIs also for under a million has come in to play in the secondary market. Now granted you have a Liberty but for a person to become the third owner of a bus may be tough for them to stomach the over $700K price tag. I echo fly's comments but its just me but I think the overall style or as I call it the "look" has come into play here. I continue to say this because when I first saw your bus(if this is indeed your bus I am talking about in the link) I noticed how pretty it was but the outside look was different than the new ones. It was just the first thing that caught my eye, and again I am just speaking from what I saw and am not saying that is what everyone else saw. I think from that $600K to 900K in the preowned market, the buyer is going to want as close to a new look as he or she can get. We all know that when cars change body styles that affects the cost of used ones with a now older look. I would think the same principle would apply in the RV or Bus world. Hopefully, there is someone here that is interested in trading. If so I think they would be getting a great bus. You might be on too something by prodding Jim to get a bus. I noticed he doesnt have one and maybe this would be something he is interested in. I think someone will come forward because it really is a nice bus and the one thing I like is the look of your stateroom. Really nice!

[jello_jeep]

We're rooting for you Joe! Hope you can keep your tin for sure!!




We may be forced to keep ours and by the grace of God just might be able to. Wish us luck. Sure would beat giving it away.

[MangoMike]

Jim, You seem like the logical prospect out of the bunch to me. Isn't it time you bought a bus?

Bill,

I saw him first. :)

Two Bus Club Mike

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I don't think there is a thing wrong with the coach, and had we not had this entire nation shift into panic mode by the perfect storm of a mortgage industry fiasco, runaway fuel prices and politicians that need to tell us how bad things are so they can be seen as having the answers, that coach would be gone at a fair price to Bill and the buyer.

But since we all accept there is nothing rational about buying a coach we should also accept that this industry has had its own perfect storm. Start with several converters going out of business and their remaining inventory dumped at prices that are well below actual cost, add another converter dumping its inventory thus further devaluing everything out there, add to that the cost of fuel which happens to be chump change compared to every other cost of ownership and we have buyers stuck with their coaches, or eating huge losses due to depreciation.

None of us has immunity from the insanity because sellers can't lower prices fast enough, and buyers who think they are paying a fair price today, are seeing their new pride and joy worth a hell of a lot less tomorrow. All of a sudden nobody wants to make a move.

The good news is that all of this will go away. The buses will never be worth more than they are today, but when things go back to some semblance of sanity, at least they will not be depreciating as fast as they have been.

If I absolutely had to sell today, I would swallow hard and get the best deal I could. Because if I did not, tomorrow my bus for sale is worth less, and in the meantime I am paying for insurance, continuing to eat the depreciation, and losing the earning value of the invested capital. If I couldn't bring myself to sell at today's prices I would hope somebody would slap me because they are never going back up even if this mess sorts itself out. It will get worse because I predict a few more converters are going to dump inventory and disappear before this market recovers.

[Kevin Erion]

Sitting in our bus, just had one of our best days at the water park and by far some ribs that Jdub could dream about. The girls are happy, full of stories and I read about the price of my bus going down.
Todays memories.....PRICELESS!

[Sid Tuls]

Kevin, I agree with you been in the bus the last two weeks put on 2800 miles and now camp out in San Diego @ Mission Bay it doesn't get any better!!!! Hey did you ever get that water spot remover "HOT SAUCE" ?








Sid & Judy Tuls
2007 Thompson XL11 D/S
Visalia,Ca now in San Diego

[dreadnought]

Gary, Thanks again

Vic, My apologies sir! That listing should have expired, and I thought it did, months ago. I thought you were on Prevost-Stuff or RV Trader.

Kevin, Ray, you're absolutely right. We loaded up and spent a week in Quebec and the Adirondacks a couple of weeks ago. The bus performed flawlessly and we had a great time. It's like traveling in your own cocoon.

[flyu2there]

Wow, that depreciation really sucks. Add that to the current fuel and economy and it's a double whammy.

It's interesting, just yesterday I was speaking with a Marathon salesman. He indicated that coaches over the 1M mark were still selling well (lucky for them). He also indicated coaches under the 500k mark were really slow, and people were much more cautious about a purchase. He didn't happen to mention that area between 500k and 1M.

Ray

Ray,

I rest my case

[flyu2there]

The good news is that all of this will go away. The buses will never be worth more than they are today, but when things go back to some semblance of sanity, at least they will not be depreciating as fast as they have been.

If I absolutely had to sell today, I would swallow hard and get the best deal I could. Because if I did not, tomorrow my bus for sale is worth less, and in the meantime I am paying for insurance, continuing to eat the depreciation, and losing the earning value of the invested capital. If I couldn't bring myself to sell at today's prices I would hope somebody would slap me because they are never going back up even if this mess sorts itself out. It will get worse because I predict a few more converters are going to dump inventory and disappear before this market recovers.


Jon,

I have to disagree with you on this point. The prices today are at an artificial low, it's simple supply side economics. There are more sellers than there are buyers, so those who really need to get out, for whatever reason, contribute to the panic and lower their price. Then you have the convertors who are tanking or who have already failed, their inventory is sold to make overdue payrolls, notes, legal fee's...whatever, at a price that will move the product. No matter, at the end of the day the prices are pushed to artifical lows. In a strange way, it is related to the home mortgage boondoggle.

This economy will recover, more people will have extra disposable income and the bargain basement prices will disappear. I think it prudent to watch the "Baby Boomers" as they are now entering or fast approaching retirement and they are the ones that will be buying the busses, boats and airplanes as they enter their golden years. Reflect if you will on airplanes. To cite an example, a 1966 Cessa 150 originally sold for less than 7000.00 (I won't address inflation) and today 43 years later, in reasonable condition, will bring 25k.....that after thousands of hours of use! During the original "fuel crisis" of 1973 and the "interest rate crisis" of the early 80's you couldn't give that airplane away, those who may have sat on their investment have done well; those who sold in panic.......

[donniev]

Bill, I Sold My 06 Liberty Elegant Lady Last Week As Well As My 06 Marathon. But I Am Here In Florida.i Think A Bus Has To Be In Florida. That Is Where The Buyers Are Coming To Look At All The Coaches.

[dreadnought]

Don, you're a heck of a salesman. Mind if I ask how much you sold them for? I'm sure the rest of the gang is curious too. If you're not comfortable with specifics at least let us know if you realized what you'd planned for.
I guess the other obvious question is why did you have 2 almost new rides?

[jack14r]

Don,Since you owned both at the same time treat us to a comparison of the two converters.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Maybe he had 3, got rid of those two and kept the one he liked:rolleyes:

[rmboies]

Maybe he had 3, got rid of those two and kept the one he liked:rolleyes:

We bought our last Millennium from Florida Luxury Coach in Sanford, FL. Great people to work with--they go the extra mile for you and want their customers to be satisfied. There are good sales agents out there who will get your coach sold and at a price you can live with. Just thought I would mention them:D

[Loc]

Debi,

I was wondering where Bob was when Bill said something about trading a coach. Isn't it time for Bob to get another coach?

Loc

[jack14r]

Florida Luxury Coach had both a 2006 Marathon and a Liberty last week,are those the coaches that were owned by Don?

[donniev]

Bill, First Of All We Are Florida Luxury Coach. With That Being Said, The Marathon Brought 800k While The Liberty Was In The 700s.both Were Low Miles And Very Nice Coaches. Jack In Comparison Between The Two, Let Me Say I Sold Libertys For Six Years And Have Allways Been A True Beleiver. However This Marathon Was Exceptional.marathon Has Really Stepped Up To The Plate In The Last Couple Of Years. I Put Liberty And Marathon On The Same Level!!:)

[rmboies]

Debi,
I was wondering where Bob was when Bill said something about trading a coach. Isn't it time for Bob to get another coach?
Loc

You are such a funny guy Loc:p Yes, it does seem to be about that time. hmmmmmm

I see Donnie V "outed himself" so once again, I'd like to share that we had a great experience working with Florida Luxury Coach.

Debi

[donniev]

Thank You Very Much Debi!::

[paulg]

may be interested in trade. 03 liberty non slide

[bonhall41]

Joe,
We join the list of those who hope you can keep da bus.

Also, we met Donnie V when we were looking for a bus and found everyone at Florida Luxury Coach very pleasant to work with. We just found a bus we liked better down the street at Featherlite. :(

I can understand your concern if you HAVE to sell a bus now but if you can hold on...

Bonnie

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Currenty it is no longer for sale:)

[phorner]

That's great news, Joe !!:)