Suggestions on a hitch to pull a stacker??

[nealandjudy]

We just purchased a triple axle 4950 featherlite stacker trailer to tow behind our H3 and are looking for suggestions on what type of hitch would be best. We plan on putting a Corvette, Polaris Ranger, a couple of Harleys, and some "other stuff" in it. We measured the tongue weight empty and it was 1,000 lbs. Will a regular receiver work or do we need a weight distribution hitch? I hope I am asking the right questions as Neal isn't here right now.

Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated!!

Still trying to upload a picture of our coach but haven't figured out the pixel thing yet!

[Kevin Erion]

I would get the Prevost 20,000lb hitch. It will also increase the tongue weight to 2000lb.

[nealandjudy]

We currently have a Prevost 10,000 lb hitch. Do you think it would be safe to pull the stacker with it full or should we get the 20,000 lb hitch?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Wow....1000 pounds tongue weight and it is empty.

What will the whole rig weigh when loaded, what will be the tongue weight be when loaded, and what kind of brakes will it have.

Maybe I am too conservative but that has the potential to be exciting.

[Kenneth Brewer]

We currently have a Prevost 10,000 lb hitch. Do you think it would be safe to pull the stacker with it full or should we get the 20,000 lb hitch?

My two cents: I cannot answer this definitively because the final tongue weight is unknown. But I do know Maryland can easily make your life miserable if it turns out the hitch is inadequate for the weight, quite aside from safety concerns. On the other hand, if you are pulling a stacker you will be longer than Md. permits, and if you find yourself in that state, stay on the interstates.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Depending where the axles are situated on the trailer you will should be able to load that trailer to close to capacity without getting over on the tongue limit of the hitch.

Ideally you will be able to keep the load neutral and the tongue close to 1000lb.

Some experimentation at a truck scale and adjusting the load while there would be prudent in fact it is the only way you will get it right for sure. When you find the right formula some marks on the floor of the trlr will be helpful. A couple of INCHES one way or another with the position of the contents of the trailer will result in significant differences in the weight on the nose.

Even with everything loaded perfect driving a combination like that will be work and hard on the bus at best.

Easy does it and leave your aggressions at the curb.

These are the kind of concerns I wish I had:rolleyes:

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Joe, your comments are right on except imagine the rear bias of the axles if the trailer (which is not like a conventional trailer) already has a 1000 pound tongue weight.

A significant potrtion of every pound forward of the axles ends up as tongue weight, and I suspect there is little room behind the axles to offset that, such as by loading the car or motorcycles. A Corvette is fairly well balanced depending on the model year so it is likely to end up over the axles. There may not be much remaining room behind the car so the motorcycles and the four wheeler are for all practical purposes added to the tongue weight.

I always get concerned when I see a Prevost with a large stacker trailer, usually smoking down the highway in the show-off lane because I imagine few of them have the braking ability necessary or the hitch capacity for the weight. This of course ignores the fact that in far too many states such a rig is illegal.

[hhoppe]

I still remember what the elder service Mgr. at the Billings , Mt. Detroit Diesel Service told me when I asked how the 8V92 compared to the Ser. 60. He said "two 8V engines to one transmission and one Ser. 60 engine to four (4) transmissions. With the extra trailer weight you need to watch the transmission temp guage constantly and probably never use 6 gear. Lots of down shifting up and down hills. Good luck and have fun.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Just a guess but if the tongue is 1000 empty those axles are going to be pretty close to centered to just slightly rear of center.

I think a good spot for the vet may be on the bottom backed in. Bikes & quad up top with the quad forward. That would also offset any potential items stored in cabinets or up front. Initially one just has to experiment and see. What fun!:o

You will have the luxury of always hauling the same stuff so with enough effort you will be able to test loaded positions and come to the most convenient way to overcome the tongue weight issues and just concern yourself with the gross weight. A vette a couple of HD's and a quad is around 7000lb net wt.? That is not real outrageous. The trlr. itself is another 3 or 4000?

A morning at the scales will answer all.

Where is Toy Box or Kevin and Jack they will have some good advice.

To the hitch question I would get the best I could find. The equalizer hitch may help some I suppose. Wouldn't hurt.

I recall someone posted a trailer tongue weight scale a while back, Kev I think. It went under the base of the leg.

Ditto what Harry said, the trans will be the weak link. 65 or 70,000lbs is a lot for an automatic.

What is the most gross weight Allison suggests safely pulling with one? Is there any additional aftermarket coolers available from Allison????????????? With the way the external filter is plumbed a guy could probably fashion something pretty helpful for dissipating heat by tapping into those lines. An additional external cooler with d/c fans with thermal sensors.

[jack14r]

My champion trailer weighed 10200 Lbs empty and it was aluminum.I don't know what the tongue weight was but I towed a 4500 LB. car in it from FL to NC and got 4.1 MPG.I would rather flat tow my chevy truck and at least get 5.0 MPG.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

A concern nobody has addressed is the stress on the rear of the coach. The standard hitch is attached to the engine cradle and the tongue weight is literally cantilivered off the rear axle sub frame.

Unlike Peter's Smart car carrier that carries the vertical loads on the truss frame and has almost horizontal loading on the lower portion, a heavy tongue load with the standard hitch is going to show up in the form of stress cracks on the rear cap attach points.

A good example is looking at coaches in which a motorcycle has been carried on a hitch mounted motorcycle carrier. The stress cracks can be seen at all rivets and across the top of the cap. Prevost has a 20,000 hitch as Kevin pointed out and if a trailer of heavy tongue and gross weight is to be towed at the very least that hitch should be added.

Ditto what Harry said. Those transmission temps are going to get very high and annual Transynd changes are going to be required to prolong the transmission life.

[Toy Box]

For what it's worth, Our triple axle featherlite weighs 6200 lbs. empty. I don't have a lift inside, but we do have some attic space for carpet rolls and misc. small items. I can weigh the tongue in our shop with a store bought hydraulic scale. I simply place the scale on a floor jack under the ball socket of the trailer and adjust the tongue height to correspond with the same amount as it is when hooked to the bus. This scale gives a very precise reading within 50 lbs. When empty and on level ground in the shop, the trailer has a tongue weight of 750. When loaded with the vette to the extreme rear, the golf cart or the harley sideways and just ahead of the car, the tongue weight is at 1280-1300 lbs. We do have the Prevost hitch at 20,000 lbs. and all three axles have brakes. I can actually stop quicker when loaded. Hills on interstates in Texas, New Mexico or Colorado are not a problem as long as you down shift and keep an eye on temps. in the transmission...both up hill and especially down with the retarder. Although we are 73' long overall, I have never [ to date ], had any issues with the fellows in the smokey bear hats. Just keep a low profile if possible! We do have two friends with H45 units towing triple axle 29' ers with stackers. They both have to load as much as possible in the rear and still have tongue weights in the 2000-2400 range... too much for this country boy!!!

[Kevin Erion]

I installed a 20,000LB Prevost hitch on my 99XL for piece of mind, got the scale that toy box has and played with it for hours to get the tongue weight to 1250. But at the end of the day, sold it, and I have not looked back. I tow our 3/4 ton Suburban with the 3rd seat out and a bus spare rim with tire, a BBQ with 2 LP tanks and life is way less stress.

[Coloradobus]

Harry,

One 8V to two 5 spd trannies, is much better record than one DDEC to four 4060' tranmissions. Do you know when we can expect our Alison to go out>? Guess the Alison MH4060 is not as stout as the old 5 speeds. Question??: Why, in the POG pricing guide, does the 5 speed tranny get dinged when what the Billings DD shop, (been there) say they last longer than the MH4060?
How would a coach with a 1st generation Series 60 with a 5spd rate? That also takes a hit on the pricing guide?

[nealandjudy]

Thanks for all the input guys....I will pass this along to Neal. You are all so helpful! I hope we can make Spearfish!

[hhoppe]

Jim The explanation given was the Ser. 60 has so much power & torque over the 8V it overloads the transmissions easier. The added 6th gear would add more strain on the trans. if used on hills or heavy loads. Keep the rpms up and avoid problems.

[Jeff Bayley]

I towed a double stacker companion trailer a year ago from CA. to FL. on the standard 10,000 pound hitch. I weighed it at a truck stop and it was 17,000 pounds loaded. 12,000 pounds unloaded (I had one car and some household stuff). It has the matching stainless sides which I understand add 2-3k pounds of weight to the trailer (not worth the bling in my opinion for the extra weight). The tounge weight was not an issue as this trailer had a front axle the steered and followed the coach. You know that sucker's back there for sure when your going up hill. I wouldn't do it again and I have no plans of buying a stacker that. I was borrowing that one and transporting West to East for the owner at the same time.

Despite being 75' in length and over the limit in some of the states I passed through, I never got stopped. I only got stopped when a bearing went out and got so hot that the spindle disenetgrated and it along with the trailer tire are still somewhere between El Paso and Albequreque New Mexico in the middle of the desert. Took 5 days to get back on the road since I was in the middle of BF Egypt. Like Kevin, I'm done with them big trailers.

[rickdesilva]

Thats what I love about this forum. I had been contemplating a stacker to transport our toys to Florida. But after reading everyones comments it doesn't seem like its worth the expense and wear and tear on the bus. I had a 20' trailer that I could fit in a car (a 911) and one harley, but it was tight. What size trailer would fit a car and 2 Harleys? Dale I think you fit your SUV and a harley in a trailer. What size is it and could you fit in another bike if you wanted? Maybe we should have a trailer seminar at the next rally.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Unless you prefer your stuff inside a trlr you could have Peter build you a lift like his. Put the bikes on it and pull your toad 4 wheels down behind that. That would be lighter and eliminate the expense and inconvenience of any trlr.

Possibly pull a full size P-U with a cap and it doubles as a storage shed.

2992

[Sid Tuls]

How in the world would a person ruin the looks of there bus with something like that???? If you can buy the bus I bet a few pennys a gallon isn't going to break you.








Sid & Judy Tuls
2007 Thompson XL11 D/S

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

How in the world would a person ruin the looks of there bus with something like that???? If you can buy the bus I bet a few pennys a gallon isn't going to break you.
Sid & Judy Tuls
2007 Thompson XL11 D/S


Now Sid, don't be so harsh on one of our good members. He worked long and hard on that mount for his Smart Car.

Gary S.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Along with the consideration of cost is wear and tear on your bus.


I thought that was a good example of a very light alternative solution.

You definatly would not have liked my other examples.
2993

[Sid Tuls]

O.K. I'll take back my personel thoughts. Hope iI didn't tick off to many but don't you just love driving down the Hwy. in you bus and come up to another Prevost and admire it? If forgiven Gary and if you still have that back camera lens I would like to buy it. Let me know.








Sid & Judy Tuls
2007 Thompson XL11 D/S

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Rick

A more direct reply to your question would be I would use the info you already know with your 20 as baseline then how much more room you would need for 1 more bike and how much different is the SUV from the 9-11? Add that to 20? Maybe 24 or 26 just barely???

What do you think about maximum length laws? Max legal trlr length would be 25 if you are driving a 45r. A couple of states are 65 ft overall limit but have found them easy to avoid and the lions share of states is 70ft max overall. A few are greater. IMO 70 ft is the max comfortable legal length.

Doesn't Bill&Jody pull a small SUV with a bike enclosed? Good time to call and bug him.

Equalizer hitches have the capacity of lowering tongue weight on a trailer that weighs 10000gross by 1000 lbs

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Don't worry about it too hard Sid maybe it will motivate him to finally get it painted and finished:eek:

Besides, you got a Thompson.

[Petervs]

OK now Joe ans Sid.

I have been travelling on my boat in the wilds of British Columbia, and only now have found the internet connection to respond to this thread.

1. If I was to build a lift like this for someone else then I could afford to buy a brand spanking new Marathon after the bill gets paid. If someone wants to copy my design I would be flattered and it would only cost a few beers.

2. I do plan to finish the darn thing this summer. Really!

3. The biggest PRO to this approach is no towing so you can drive the speed limit for cars, and easy backing up.

Sorry about the delay, but it turns out that life spent travelling at 10 mph on the waterways of North America has a certain appeal too.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

That sounds great Peter and we will be here waiting for you when you get back.

May the wind be at your back wherever you go.

[merle&louise]

Hey Peter, what kind of boat do you have? Pictures?

[tdelorme]

Hey Peter, what kind of boat do you have? Pictures?

Settle down, Tuga. I promise you it's not a Pirogue. :rolleyes:



http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i174/tdelorme1/pirogue1.jpg

[Jeff Bayley]

Rick-

I was comtemplating a smaller 20' stacker at one time and it was more reasonable in weight and all and I wouldn't rule that out. I'm not sure what the dry weight of that would be but if your putting a light car like a 911 and some bikes it probabey is under 12,000 pounds loaded I'm guessing if it's alluminum instead of the stainless "companion trailers" that match our buses. I've been traveling for 4 years and never once towed a car and never once have a regreted not havng a car but I'm about to convert my bus to run on waste vegatable oil and put the dirty and clean tanks and the filtration system all self contained in the back of a pick up truck to use A) as my pull behind fuel supply and B) as the runner to retrieve 250 gallons of waste oil from several restaurtants so I dont' have to hunt it up with the bus and C) as general transportaion which I've never missed but if it's there, I'll probabley use it.

I think the toad and/or a trailer or lack of one all depends on your "style of traveling". If you dry camp a lot and stay on city streets like I like to do then even the toad becomes impractacle, especially when your getting lost and making lots of u-turns down small side streets. If you stay for a week at a time in an RV park then I guess the toad/trailer makes sense. I've always just found it easy to drive the bus where I need to go if I don't want to take a cab and if there isn't anything dragging behind me, then manuevering the bus is siimple and easy to do it that way. I'll probabley hang a scooter or some bikes on the back of the pick up truck and keep a surfboard or windsurfer on the roof of the truck cap. I've always wished our buses had ladders and were more practiacle to store things llike that on the roof but even with a ladder, the roof airs get in the way unless you have cruise airs.

[dalej]

Dale I think you fit your SUV and a harley in a trailer. What size is it and could you fit in another bike if you wanted?


Rick,

We pull a 24 foot Tommy's brand trailer. It has a bull nose front or V-nose as some say. The total length is 29 feet inside. Overall lenght is slightly less then 31 feet. We put our Aviator from Lincoln, It's matches the Ford Explorer. We also put in a Harley but two would fit side by side in the front of the trailer.

Hope this helps.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

OK, there are negatives to dragging a trailer behind our coaches. Weight is the prime consideration because our coaches were and are desgned to be seated coaches and they were never intended to haul around a large heavy trailer.

But...if I was spending some serious time on the road and especially if I was going to be somewhere for an extended period I can see the need for a trailer. I would first make sure I managed the weight to the maximum extent possible, including keeping the tongue weight within the hitch limits and insuring the trailer has good braking. I would make certain that when driving I avoided situations where I was exposing myself to sudden stops and I sure would slow down to minimize not only stresses on the bus, but because our buses do not stop well as it is, and a trailer is unlikely to improve that situation.

A trailer becomes your garage away from home, and if I had some nice bikes I sure would want them stored in the dry. A trailer for me would be a great place to have my shop when not at home.

To drag around golf carts, a car, a couple of Harleys, and miscellaneous other stuff that can be crammed into the bus and trailer is going to be hard on the bus however.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Sorry, can't help it. This is a great topic because of the huge range of issues and choices.

Dale you have a 40ftr and overall w/trlr in tow not quite 71ft. You said the trlr from the ball to bumper is almost 31 ft and yet that classified a 24ft trlr??????????????? That means a guy with a 45 would be 76 ft with your same trlr and that is bad if being legal most of the time is important to you.


Try this idea, I'm going for least weight for max. gear.

What if you used a bike lift on the bus for 1 bike and on a tow bar pull a 1/2 ton PU 4-down, put a lift in the back of it for the golf cart or better yet, possibly compromising slightly on gear DOWNSIZING slightly in this area from that to say motor scooters. That would then allow a for large SUV instead of the PU Finally put another bike lift on the back of the PU or the back of a larger SUV toad if you prefer, just like the one on the back of the bus!


1 half ton PU 5000lb with golf cart 500lb

2 HD's 2000lbs

2 bike lifts 500lbs Total weight 8000



Large SUV 4000lbs

2 motor scooters ?

2 HD's 2000lbs

Two bike lifts 500lbs Total 6500lbs

The no trailer choice. The lightest solution to Ricks issue, maybe.:D

But for the conventional approach here are some questions and thoughts.

Dale how much does your trlr weigh loaded up and how much tongue weight is on it? Can you feel the trlr brakes working or is the bus harder to slow pulling it? Has ANYONE ever used a weight distributing hitch and why or why not.

Toy box said he can feel an improvement in braking pulling his 3 axle. That extra axle is worth its weight. No reason not to see more of that. Among other things: two more hubs with brakes, less tongue weight, lighter axle weights.

Jack and Kevin what exactly were your experiences with braking distances with large trlrs and without.

[Denny]

Joe,

Maybe you can get a 53' freight box for the Pete and contract to haul all of the toys around the country.

[jack14r]

I really can't say that braking was much different,the trailer had 3 axles and was very well built.I do know that on flat land(Florida) the transmission temps. were in the 220-226 range with the cruise set to 75MPH.I really don't like to see that high a temp.and not even in the hills,that is one reason I sold it.Towing the Chevy 4 door truck trans temps were in the 200-210 range even in the North Carolina and Virgina mountains.I did have a equalizing hitch that came with it and IMHO it was necessary,the trailer wanted to move around just a little even with it.This trailer had air bags for springs,16 inch wheels and was a stacker,I think that it was a pain to load and I was glad to see it go.A guy with a POS bought it,I bet it is a hand full behind that,and I am sure he only has a 10,000 pound hitch.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Denny it has probably been done I'm sure. I have seen snowmobile trips loaded into a 40ft dump trlr and one guy gets er done. Everybody gets to just throw gear in the trunk and hammer down.

Jack and toy box both not experiancing adverse results stopping and that is reassuring..

It was suggested to me recently that a rule of thumb is the tongue weight is around 10% of the empty weight and your loaded correctly if it remains 10% but this is often hard to do.

The way I was explained it those hitches will carry 10% of their rated capacity. If a 20,000 equalizer will give 2000lbs of help with the tongue weight.

But that would be to easy.

Are they standard equipment on the bigger trlrs or are they often used by bus guys?

[merle&louise]

Mel Tormme,

No self respecting cajun would row a pirogue. You can't see where you are going; you can only see where you've been. Is that how they do it in the Northwest?:confused:

Is that a beagle in the water?

[rickdesilva]

Thanks for all the info, my dilemma is when an opportunity like Spearfish pops up, we would like to take our bikes and have the security of a toad. So it would be great to have a trailer that could handle both. I've determined based on everyone's input that for us, a stacker isn't worth the investment. Something like Dales trailer would work best for us. The other good thing about a trailer like Dales is that I could pull it with my Excursion if I want to. Most of the time I would just pull the toad, I would use the trailer only a few times a year.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

That is logical. If it were me I would be trying to fit everything into a trlr that would keep me under 70 ft and I think I would definitely want a equalizer.

I would also inquire if the trlr that you choose is say only 10,000 max gross if it would accept a larger 20000lb equalizer thus being able to carry away even more potential tongue weight? It could always be adjusted back if nessessary.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Mr green jeans (Dale) do you use an equalizer hitch or not?

Either way why?

[dalej]

Joe,

I don't use a equalizer because I don't have a heavy hitch problem. I put the Harley in first and then back the Lincoln in so the engine/transmission is behind the two axles.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Dale I sure hope that Lincoln is still shining like I left it in Tn. ? :)


Gary S.

[Petervs]

Tuga, to answer your question about the boat I thought I would start a new thread since it has nothing to do with stacker trailers. And there might be others who would like to chime in on this topic. Please see the Prevost vs Boat thread.