I've Got The Bug/ Buying Newer 345

[0533]

Pam and I have decided that we have been completely hooked on the "Bus Thing". We are heading out this week for Nova Scotia and around returning to Florida when we feel like it.

We purchased our Marathon #0533 last December in Coburg Or. at the Marathon factory. It is a 1999 model Year, 1998 Shell, it was one owner bus with 30,600 original miles on it when we purchased her. It was the most expensive conversion Marathon had ever made until the year 2000. Its a single slide coach, 13'X3' and has about every feature possible including a really cool observatory.

I have upgraded every aspect, from tires, Koni Shocks, airbags, batteries, refreshed the paint, all new A/V, headliner, Refinished the floors, new refrigerator, microwave, gave Marathon a blank check (Although its been filled out since) to repair and upgrade everything, AC, Over the road, Webasto, plumbing upgrades, paint the roof, new painted fenders, had Prevost go through everything, from engine to air, anything that could be upgraded has been.
The list could go on for ten pages.

I am a detail nut, love to make things better than new, and I think I have gotten very close.

Pam and I are now on the lookout for a late model (2006/2007) 2 slide 345, either a Marathon or possibly a Liberty possibly Featherlite. If you know of any let me know. It must be a one owner, extremely low mileage and never ever had any damage.

In closing I do not want to be a 2 coach owner and will offer 0533 at a very reasonable price, and will make certain that whomever buys it is able to drive away without wondering about anything for at least 30 miles, just kidding.
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[Darl-Wilson]

Bruce, I think most of us here on the forum have followed you and Pam from the purchase, through your improvements, and finally, where you are today. I am convinced your coach is in top shape and certainly is unique. All of this begs the question; HOW MUCH?

I am tempted because of the slide but, like you, I don't want to be a member of the TBC.

I am sure you will keep us informed about when you are going to do this. We'll be waiting.

Darl

[0533]

Bruce, I think most of us here on the forum have followed you and Pam from the purchase, through your improvements, and finally, where you are today. I am convinced your coach is in top shape and certainly is unique. All of this begs the question; HOW MUCH?

I am tempted because of the slide but, like you, I don't want to be a member of the TBC.

I am sure you will keep us informed about when you are going to do this. We'll be waiting.

Darl
Hello Darl,

This is always the bottom line when making a purchase. My timing sucks a little I guess given the market, but I will sell the coach when the right person comes along and when I find the right replacement coach. I really do want this coach to go to people who can appreciate the upgrades and overall quality. I am certain that all POG members know what I mean.

My problem is that I paid a small premium for a one owner , low milage slide coach in the beginning, so I am starting behind the power curve out of the gate, oh well.

One thing that I can say is that buying an early slide coach can be difficult unless you are willing to essentially rebuild and upgrade the slide out unit, which I have done. This slide out is huge, and was over engineered from the start. It is a HWH slide room built by a company called Rouge in OR. No longer in business. The great news is that Marathon completely rebuilt it as part of my contract for renovation and upgrades. It took two goes at it to make it work perfect, but now it is really smooth and does not creep out.

We spent just a hair over $100K on upgrades, including the following:

1. New headliner: The original was real leather, very thin with chrome strips. I replaced it with suede.
2. Floors: They are real cork: I had them sanded and stained and refinished. Looks beautiful, rich Mahogany look.
3. Bus Aux Air: had it completely upgraded and repaired, new lines, new compressor pump, all doors , bed, drivers seat, slide cover, all of it, no leaks anywhere.
4. Paint: had all stripes repainted, topside, silver redone and all rivets repaired and painted and clear coated.
5. Stainless done
6. Slideout. Replaced all hydraulics, lines, latches, sensors, all parts.
7. Upgraded plumbing bay: New sensors replaced macerator pump, some lines etc.
8. Galley: New 3 door fridge, New microwave, duel cooking microwave oven.
9. Audio Visual: Took out all old and replaced both Tv's with High Def, new sat dish, two receivers, FM, DVD, the whole mess. all new from front to back including the fancy remote controls.
10. Upgraded all roof antennas: Including replacing Moto Sat, CB, antennas, and all associated equipment.
11. Prevost Car: Had them go through the bus and repair or replace anything that was needed: OTR air upgraded and Webasto cleaned, Circulation pump replaced, checked and replaced any air valves, Norgen??
12. Replaced all 8 tires and 2 wheel upgrades, energy 315 michelin and 2 365 steer wheels and tires all michelin.
12. All new Koni shocks set to medium.
13. All new airbags
14. New A-Arms front.
15. Had the 50,000 mile Prevost service (actually have 35K) including the changing of all fluids, wanted to start fresh, radiator, both Genset and main. Transmission, main, all belts, any upgrade kits that were available. Spare parts inventory. Greased, adjusted and tweaked everything
16. Even have changed the oil twice in the past five months.
17. batteries in all compartments, genset, house and engine.
18. had the insulation renewed in the genset bay along with oil and service on the genset.
19. Lots of misc, stuff, like all outside lighting, from headlights, marker, all taillights, bulbs etc.
20. had a 3 axle alignment done. leveled out the coach etc.
21. Cellphone booster, repeater, router system installed.

I have left out lots of little stuff, and am sure that there is more, have about 50 pages of invoices. Most have been done within the past few months, all of the Prevost service lots within the past 30 days or so.

So what is it worth, good question. I figure that someone will make an offer at some point, and if I get lucky enough to find a new or nearly new coach at a discount i will be more willing to discount and eat some of my expenses as part of m y education into the bus world.

I have tendency to overdo things a little in an effort not to have to look back, sometimes i overpay.

The good news is that Marathon will stand behind and have stood behind all work done, and Prevost Car warrantees here stuff for one year.

The bus has all of the Marathon upgrades and options along with a bunch of custom stuff including observatory with ladder inside, commercial kitchen with both gas and electric stoves, custom one piece stainless galley, port holes, all one of, really cool especially from inside. Bedroom walls are wainscoated in red leather, king bed the same. Furniture were designed by Rolls Royce in coach red leather, and much more.

The Prevost shell had all options including the 86" height, Howard active steering, OTR, and several other features I have forgotten. Front tire or pull out storage, air conditioning is RVAC and in the back bays.

I think its best to see what others feel it is worth, so That I do not look stupid with my pricing.

I can provide a complete list, copies of invoices etc for a more detailed look along with tons of images.

Regards,

[jack14r]

Bruce,I am curious,why an H3 and not an XLII?

[0533]

Bruce,I am curious,why an H3 and not an XLII?
Hello Jack,

I am anxious to try the newer bus, but do not want to deal with the glued on stainless or windows. I have been at Prevost jacksonville and have seen no less than 5 or 6 buses being re-glued, windows being removed and pieced
together. I love the look of the XLII buses and wish that they were not having problems. I prefer the stainless look but have decided that the 345 is the best solution for a new bus today based on these factors.

I really love my bus, it runs and looks great, its barely broken in, but now that i have the bug its time to try a new or nearly new bus.

[lewpopp]

This is all well and good. You have counted yourself down and now join the PPs.

[jack14r]

Bruce,I have always heard that the XLII stainless problems were in the early 2000 shells,have you seen problems with the recent production?

[0533]

Bruce,I have always heard that the XLII stainless problems were in the early 2000 shells,have you seen problems with the recent production?
I'm no expert but have seen XLII buses up to 2006 with stainless problems and now of course the window issues, I just do not want to fight this battle. It sounds like you have a good one with no problems. i bet it ends up being batches of the epoxy, how they were mixed, weather, temps and all. This stuff requires careful prep work and can kick you in the butt if one does not have the experience.

[Coloradobus]

Bruce,

They all will have their troubles. Friends of ours recently took delivery of Marathon 0957, and "H" with 40K miles. They have had slide room troubles...not wanting to retract, so you can't move. Hopefully, this is solved, Marathon tweaked the slide. They have had salon windows crack and come unglued. Remember, the newer "H"'s have glued in flush windows, too.
Can you post a few more photos of 0533 along with a floorplan?>?:D

[MangoMike]

Bruce,

If you're going to come over to the dark side you have to get the nomenclature correct. It's H3-45.

Good luck.

MIke

[truk4u]

Darl,

Guess your not going to get a price!:rolleyes:

[0533]

Bruce,

They all will have their troubles. Friends of ours recently took delivery of Marathon 0957, and "H" with 40K miles. They have had slide room troubles...not wanting to retract, so you can't move. Hopefully, this is solved, Marathon tweaked the slide. They have had salon windows crack and come unglued. Remember, the newer "H"'s have glued in flush windows, too.
Can you post a few more photos of 0533 along with a floorplan?>?:D
I agree Jim. I like the XLII best, the smooth sleek lines. I figured that if I purchased one it would be the one that had both skin and window problems. I'm sure that slides can be problems until they get sorted out and in fact have seen both XLII and H models at Prevost having slides worked on. The is no perfect solution. One can only evaluate each coach for quality of workmanship.

[0533]

Bruce,

If you're going to come over to the dark side you have to get the nomenclature correct. It's H3-45.

Good luck.

MIke
I was wrong and will never ever do that again. But I do want to ask one question. Does H3-45 stand for the formula in the plastic skin? Like H stands for high strength plastic, and 3 for 3 mils, and 45 for I guess the length. Thats how Winnebago does it. can't wait.

[Jerry Winchester]

I wouldn't post the price either. If you are serious and want to know call or e-mail.

And don't bother with grouchy ass Lew. I think he is a closet PP and is just trying to throw us off track.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I agree Jim. I like the XLII best, the smooth sleek lines. I figured that if I purchased one it would be the one that had both skin and window problems. I'm sure that slides can be problems until they get sorted out and in fact have seen both XLII and H models at Prevost having slides worked on. The is no perfect solution. One can only evaluate each coach for quality of workmanship.


Bruce, when you have developed the skills to evaluate the quality of the bonding on the skins, and the ability of the slides to continue functioning, and you know the windows will not blow out you need to share that with Prevost and the owners or these coaches.

There can be no doubt the XLII and H3 coaches with slides are as good as it gets, but for the unlucky few who get hung with these problems they can be a nightmare. At least Prevost appears to be standing behind the problems for now.

[jack14r]

Liberty is the only one of the big three that uses Prevost slides in their H3 conversion,all three use Prevost slides in their XLII conversions.I prefer factory engineering to converter engineering,I also feel that if a problem arises I have all of the Prevost service centers as well as the converter to help fix the problem.I know that there are benefits(slide size)to the Marathon and Featherlite H3 conversion,but what kind of support would you have if Valid or Featherlite went out of business?I will always prefer the Prevost slide to a after market slide.

[garyde]

This is a good topic. Since there are few major items to knock when it comes to Prevost, we all get hung up on slides. Mine is an 2003 conversion and I have not had any problems with the slides, and only one issue with the bedroom seal. I don't know how the topic of skins peeling and windows shattering got started, but is this really a main stream problem or is continuing to talk about it creating a issue which does not really exist.
I know of Kevin's bus which is a 2001 and had skin issues before he purchased it. Can anyone count on one hand the Coaches they know about who have had this problem? the same goes for windows.
I hope we won't get like some other sites which propagate mis -information and it begins to take on a life of its own.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Gary, Your comments are legitimate, but to the folks affected the issues are very serious.

Paul posted that there were coaches in JAX that were being reskinned. Previously discussed was the fact that SOME early coaches had a production problem that caused the poor bond. If what Paul was told is correct:

"Apparently there are still plenty of coaches needing to be repaired. It was explained to me that the original adhesive had a tendency to become brittle over time, and then crack due to the expansion and contraction of the stainless, resulting in the problem. The question is; do all XLII's with the suspect adhesive have the potential to fail?

The replacement stainless is evidently installed using a different adhesive that stays more pliant, allowing the expansion and contraction of the panels without causing damage to the bond."

Then this problem will not go away, but will appear over time based on how a coach is used, where it is used, and how it is stored. I think it needs to be discussed because owners who have not had the repair need to be alert to the future need, and to make certain Prevost will stand behind it. I know from my two rivet coaches that temperature changes, especially when the coach is in the sun make the skin buckle, pop, and generally move.

A bonded skin has to be experiencing the same expansion and contraction. Our entire coaches can grow as much as 1/2" going from a cold condition to a warm condition. The bond between the skin and the frame needs to allow for this or it will shear and fail.

Slides are another issue, but the Prevost slides appear to be robust, so those problems likely relate to adjustments and tweaking. I know Prevost has had issues with the pin shape, with the retraction of pins, and with seal quality. I think once the slides on a coach have been upgraded to repair the minor glitches they are going to be OK, but owners should share their experiences so the other owners are aware of what has been done to perfect the slides. Prevost has acknowledged by their 4 or 5 generations of slides that the designs had issues. By now they have had years and miles of experience so it is likely the slides are as good as they can get them. i see no reason to keep the repairs or modifications secret because like the skins, at some point Prevost (Volvo) is going to stop picking up the tab for repairs and then whoever is left standing when the music stops is screwed.

The window issue is likely a supplier issue, and since it is such a small market Prevost just has to solve it. I seriously doubt if anybody such as International Bus will come up with their own fix.

[0533]

Bruce, when you have developed the skills to evaluate the quality of the bonding on the skins, and the ability of the slides to continue functioning, and you know the windows will not blow out you need to share that with Prevost and the owners or these coaches.

There can be no doubt the XLII and H3 coaches with slides are as good as it gets, but for the unlucky few who get hung with these problems they can be a nightmare. At least Prevost appears to be standing behind the problems for now.
Thats just it Jon, I have no special skills in this area, just my visual and hearing experience spending 3 days and 3 nights as a guest of Prevost jacksonville, a very busy shop, lots of buses many with both of these problems. Got to ask the staff lots of questions from 7am to midnight each of those days, one can learn a lot this way. I was inside and outside many coaches in many phases of repair, both H and XLII's. I feel that I was fully brought up to speed in this area. I'm sure that you have been in the same situation at Prevost. While spending 72 hours inside the bays, working eating sleeping the whole experience some will rub off.

I am not making recommendations about either coach just referring to my preference based on what I have seen, As I said I like the looks of the XLII best, but after my evaluation feel that there is lower risk with potential issues with the H series for now anyway. None of these coaches is immune to problems and I understand this.

I am always learning about stuff and am sure I will find issues that I do not know about every day on these coaches.

[phorner]

Gary,

Including Kevin's bus, I know personally of 5 buses that have experienced the problem with the skin...

And, since I own an XL, I haven't really even been paying close attention to this issue.

To quote one of the tech's "we've done so many we can do them in our sleep".

So, it would appear that the problem extends beyond a hand full of coaches.

My concern would be that the problem does not appear to be the result of a certain batch of adhesive, but rather that they're changing to a different adhesive altogether.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

My point Bruce is that there are Prevost guys that eat, sleep and live with these problems. I'm talking guys from the techs that do the actual repairs to the managers and executives. Unless every single one of them is lying, they are not yet able to say with certainty why or when some coaches will exhibit problems, or what the underlying cause of the problems has been.

Right now they are dealing with the problems as they arise, and I will bet that the serial number range of affected coaches is widespread. I would wager that the only way anyone at this point could safely buy a H3 or XLII would be to get a Prevost serial number spreadsheet with repairs to the slides, skins and windows noted per serial number, and then research to see where each coach had been used and stored geographically, and only then make some assumptions about coaches that fall out of the serial number range of affected coaches, as long as you could conclude what impact age has on the issues.

This is heavy duty stuff and really bears watching.

[jack14r]

Does anyone know when Prevost changed to the current adhesive on their production lines?

[garyde]

Prevost keeps records on issues like skin replacement. The question is , can we get this info. Of the several thousand XLII s built since 2000, what is the failure rate. Ten or twenty in a given year, and which year has the highest failure rate to date. Additionally, as the XLII get older, is there more failures? These are legitimate specific question which Prevost should be able to answer.
I think it would help to take the fear and worry out of this subject.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Just as an aside, bonding issues can crop up at any time. The adhesive used on coaches may not have a time related failure, but a failure due to the number of heating and cooling cycles mitigated by storing a coach indoors. The failure could be occurring from a chemical reaction, or it could be related to atmospheric conditions such as humidity.

Whatever the problem causing delamination is, I suspect at this point Prevost still does not have enough information or data to take a proactive position on this. Until they are in a position to share the data they have thus far accumulated this problem is a huge unknown for all owners and it does affect all owners including the owners of rivet coaches whose prices track the market and are generally going to be lower than XLII coaches.