My tag tire

[Jim_Scoggins]

Here is a picture of what I did the other day. I went about 30 miles to get some work done on a cruise air. On the way back home this happened. I was in a hurry that morning and didn't give the tires a second thought. It appears it was low or developed a leak, ran for a while, then came apart as it overheated. The black stuff on the hub is melted rubber, I think.

Anyway, the vibration as this thing came apart knocked the hub caps off the other side! Does anyone have a source for the two piece tag axle hub caps.

Collateral damage was a cut air bag and a banged up shock.

There is a pressure pro in my future.

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z22/jim_scoggins/DSC01417.jpg

[dalej]

Jim,

This is where I bought mine...http://www.tkane.com/ I'm not sure if you have the same kind.

[0533]

Here is a picture of what I did the other day. I went about 30 miles to get some work done on a cruise air. On the way back home this happened. I was in a hurry that morning and didn't give the tires a second thought. It appears it was low or developed a leak, ran for a while, then came apart as it overheated. The black stuff on the hub is melted rubber, I think.

Anyway, the vibration as this thing came apart knocked the hub caps off the other side! Does anyone have a source for the two piece tag axle hub caps.

Collateral damage was a cut air bag and a banged up shock.

There is a pressure pro in my future.

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z22/jim_scoggins/DSC01417.jpg
Jim, How old was the tire??? What did you feel when the tag blew?? Noise, steering issues, control etc. I always like to know what to expect. Had you hit anything, curb etc. recently, tire pressure up. I am a tire nut, and can never seem to get tired of watching them for problems, but you never know what can cause them to come apart. Your looks like the tread has separated from the sidewall, steel belt showing the whole works.

I have a pair of covers for a Marathon. When I changed my fronts to 365's they gave me back my covers from the 315's. They are different from the liberty covers, are not one piece, round center with I believe 3 nut caps, could be 4, can't remember. If you need these let me know.

[rbeecher]

Jim,

Can you send pictures of the two pieces and how these are attached? I may have a brand new cover and bracket in the box, you can have it for the shipping.

Richard Beecher
02 Marathon XLII 45
96 Vogue XL 40 FOR SALE

[jack14r]

Jim, I use the pressure system for that exact reason and I also doubt that I would feel a toad tire go down.I guess if the rubber was melting it could catch fire and then become a REAL problem.

[Coloradobus]

I always thought we would feel any vibration if the towed tire blew. NOPE, in April we blew a tire on Rover Discovery, ( left front) and didn't know any better until we stopped for other reasons and saw the towbar was at a downhill angle to Rover. Whoops@! wrapped the tred around the suspension, before, while it was flaling about, took out the inner fender panels, washer bottle and 2 windhshield washer pumps, right front mudflap, and rocker panel cover.:( Since Rover's tires had a heavy steel belted sidewall, the wheel was riding on the tire bead with some sidewall rubber remaining and that saved the wheel.:)
Later, the good thing, we found a junk yard that had all the parts we needed and didn't have to pay retail, when we got home.:D

[Jim_Scoggins]

Bruce & Richard:
Here are pictures of the set up--Liberty can't make it easy. Tire code:4205.
Strong vibration but no handling issues. I suspect I over temped from low inflation--note the symetrical nature of the failure and there was sure plenty of heat--melted rubber-came off the wheel with mineral spirits.

I need to ask the guys if it can be recapped:D

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z22/jim_scoggins/tag003.jpg

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z22/jim_scoggins/tag004.jpg

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z22/jim_scoggins/tag005.jpg

[Joe Cannarozzi]

A bit of info that may be helpful.

When you have a flat these tubeless tires are, by design, suppose to break the bead or break away for the rim. Every now and then for a variety of reasons they will not. When they don't and you continue to run on it it will cause heat and eventually shread Just like that picture and heat up enough to potentially cause a fire.

IF and I repeat IF the tire breaks away from the rim like it should and it has gone flat due to a simple puncture and IF you are confident of the remaining rubber you can run that flat without fear of heating it up or even doing any additional damage. You can safely get off the road or even drive it to a tire service and maybe just slightly reduce your speed.

That picture that Jim posted is not what a tire looks like immediately after loosing its air but a tire that has been run after going flat AND has not broken away from the rim like it is designed to do. In fact if you look closely at the picture the bead of the tire is STILL good. Sometimes, for example, a tire that has been not dismounted for a long time will do that.

So in summery if you have a tire go down due to puncture, and if it breaks away from the rim like it is supposed to and if the remaining rubber is up and good and if you are in an unsafe spot or in the middle of nowhere you can safely continue to another destination without further damage to the tire or threat of excessive heat.

On a tractor trailer if I were empty and had a flat and it separated the bead from the rim as it is suppose to you may, and I have run that tire hundreds of miles.

Because of the nature of our buses and the fact that they are heavier than an empty semi but lighter than a loaded one IMO it would not be unsafe or unreasonable to put this advice to practice if need be.

I am not advocating knowingly running a flat down the interstate or pulling out of the barn on one. I'm just trying to let you know of certain options during certain undesirable situations.

Jim glad to see you solved that picture posting problem, IN A BIG WAY TOO. How did you do that??????????????

[rbeecher]

Jim,

I will pick up the cover from storage tomorrow and have a look. Will drop you a note tomorrow.

Richard

[lewpopp]

For the best of me, I cannot believe that Chris picked up the parts for a LAND Rover in a junkyard. I am under the assumption that they are supposed to last forever and then TATA rebuilds them.

[jack14r]

If a tag tire went flat and I knew it and had to travel to a exit would it be better to lift the tag?

[Joe Cannarozzi]

That is a good question Jack and I would be guessing but here is my guess.

If you have a 40 I would do that. I think a 45 I would not for a couple of reasons. The overall weight is usually significantly greater and most of that is rear of the rear end possibly causing way too much stress on the frame.

Also on a 40 when you lift the tag it completely clears the ground. On a 45er it doesn't and if you try to run like that every time you hit the brakes that tax axle will lock up flat spotting the tire with air still in it.

[Kevin Erion]

Jack,
I had a tag blow on my 99 XL45 and I removed the tire from the rim without taking the rim off the bus. I had to drive about 45 miles to a tire guy with the tag up. Just drive slow, about 40 and I had no problem.

[jack14r]

Thanks guys,we never know when we might be forced to make a decision and continue to the tire store.Since Kevin has done it I would try to do it as he explained but stop and check the tire temps on the drive after a few miles.

[MangoMike]

Jack,

At which point would you say that temps were excessive?

Thanks

Mike

[jack14r]

We don't see the race tires blister until north of 230 degrees,if I could hold my hand on it I would think it would be OK.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

If the tire has separated from the rim there is no reason to remove it other than letting the tire guy repair it.

Try an experiment if you dare. Lift the tag on a 45 goin down the road. Give the suspension on the drives time to fully recover and then hit the brakes and watch your mirrors and tell all what you saw.

You can not leave those tires on the pavement with no weight on them and not keep them from locking up when you brake.

[Jim_Scoggins]

For info:

40 foot coach

I had a locked brake on my tag axle once upon a time. I lifted the tag and drove about 10 miles to the repair shop. No big issues.

A caution however. On occasion the tires would touch the road and there was some very minor road abrasion squaring off of the tire.

I wouldn't go very fast or very far.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Sorry to disagree Joe, but when the tag is lifted the brakes to the tag axle are not able to function.

[Jim_Scoggins]

The picture was taken at 1.2 megs. I then took it from my computer to my Photo Bucket account. Then just copied the "img" path into the prevostownersgroup message.

Will do a smaller picture in the future as I don't want to go to band width hell.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Well Jon that is good to know and as they say learn something new every day, maybe throw in it is better to be safe than sorry when not sure too:o.